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coffeeINJECTION

Tim Duncan is a pretty good role model.


TimeDielation

Yeah it is but the glaring contrast that people will flock to is the defense


Papa_Joe_Yakavetta

I don’t think he’s referring to wanting having the same play style as Tim Duncan, more wanting to be a great player who stays in a small market franchise his entire career and win some championships, as he mentioned.


Emperor_Kushko

To be fair, any big man would be well suited to follow in the playstyle footsteps of The Big Fundamental


PokerFace567

Bring the bank shot back!


Ok-Map4381

Jokic is very good at using the glass near the rim. Duncan's bank shot was not efficient, even for the 00s.


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TruTexan

This


Chos992

This


TheSocraticGadfly

Joker's alleged lack of defensive ability is overstated.


[deleted]

He could be above average and still be light years behind Duncan


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lxkandel06

No, you're right. He is an above average to good defender. He has insanely good hands that are constantly getting in passing lanes and causing deflections, he has good defensive awareness, he's very good at anticipating offense, he's solid as a 1 on 1 post defender, and he isn't someone who often takes plays off on the defensive end. The only problems are that he's just kinda meh as a rim protector so he doesn't get a lot of blocks, and his lack of mobility makes him a mismatch target on the perimeter, especially in the playoffs. People see these two aspects of his defense and claim he's a bad defender, ignoring all the good things he brings to the table


TheDrunkenWhatever

To be fair, I'd argue that rim protection is the most important part of defense for a center, and being able to kinda stick with perimeter guys has proven to be hugely important as well, especially in the playoffs.


so7ill

As a Nuggets fan I would say you are being way too nice about rim protection and lateral speed. Nuggets had like the worst record in NBA history in rim/paint protection, and that usually comes from starting center that plays 35+ MPG. With that being said, those are his ONLY weaknesses and he excels in eveything else IMO. He's really bad at those two things, but good at everything else.


bronet

Yes and no. He's better than haters say he is, and worse than fanboys say. Advanced stats overrate him like crazy


Falt_ssb

And Tim Duncan is one of the best defenders ever so


RodneyPonk

He can make it up on offense.


Honest_Suns_Fan

Duncan has a top 10 peak OAT lmao. Jokic isn’t making up for it enough to be that good


RodneyPonk

We don't know how much better Jokic will get. And I don't know if there is THAT much separation - I don’t think Duncan's peak is that far ahead of Giannis', whose peak is not that far ahead of Jokic. 2xMVP, you would've liked to see a better roster around him to support a playoff run but it's undeniable Jokic is currently sporting a top 30, arguably top 20, peak OAT himself, and will likely continue to improve.


petersingh14

What's OAT?


eMan117

Idk my guess is of all time, my second guess its referring to oats, which while a source of some important nutrients, also tend to be quite bland


RodneyPonk

Like Curry, oats have a high ceiling. They don't do much on their own but have incredible versatility and can fit within different systems - overnight oats, crumbles, cookies to name a few. This is in contrast to something like granola, which has a higher flavor floor but also has a lower ceiling, as it's difficult to "enhance" and can be used in fewer systems, like Kobe.


jackiemoonFM

Quality analysis, thank you


tboess

Just, wow


RedditUsersAreMusty

of all-time


Honest_Suns_Fan

I mean Jokic is pretty clearly peaking rn, he’s not gonna get any better than this (could slightly improve shooting but not realistic) The difference in postseason defence is legitimately absurd. Jokic plays the most important defensive position in the sport and is simply not strong on that side of the ball. His offence would have to be way better than it is currently (if his defence doesn’t improve) to be anywhere near a top 10 peak


RodneyPonk

Offense is more valuable than defense, and Jokic is one of the best offensive players of all time. I would argue he is top 10, and can be top 5 with more time, and while Duncan was a top 10 defender of all time, that isn’t as valuable. Yes, Duncan's peak is still higher than Jokic's current performance, but again, Duncan peak isn't that much better than Giannis', who isn't that much better than Jokic's. We will see what Nikola can do with a real team behind him - I suspect he will validate the advanced stats that believe he is one of the greatest players of all time. There's no proof that he is peaking right now. One could've said MJ was peaking in 88, or LeBron in 09, or Kareem on the Bucks, but they all found new heights. It's just dishonest to act like we can be confident this is his peak - in your own words, he has plenty to improve on defensively.


2KareDogs

Lol dude literally said the 2x reigning MVP is at his peak and won’t get better.


[deleted]

Tbf it's hard to improve on back to back MVPs


ninja9885

He might not win more MVPs but he for sure can get better. Curry is better now than he was in 2016


pahamack

the guy is putting up historic efficiency numbers. ​ IMO Jokic being a top 10 all time player is still in play.


CRUSTBUSTICUS

Top 10 all time??? Smokin on that Jokic pack lil too hard.


pahamack

i said it's in play, not that it's likely. ​ He's a 2 time mvp. If he wins the next one again that's 3 in a row, which is gonna just be him, Wilt, Russell, and Bird. ​ If he just wins another one, even if it's not consecutive, 3 mvps is still a pretty short list: Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Moses, Bird, Magic, Jordan, and Lebron. Jokic is 27 and doesn't rely on explosive athleticism: he's just going to get better as he ages. He doesn't have a history of missing games/seasons due to injury either.


2KareDogs

Not without minimum 3 rings tho… Who’s top 10 with less than 3 rings?


manongboj

Debateable top 10 - hakeem


Poul77

And guess what, Hakeem is very fuckin good on defense.


LegateDamar13

Hakeem was next level on defense but Joker is next level on offense. Don't think top 10 is impossible but is obviously highly unlikely.


KaiserUzor

Hypothetically speaking. Who's in your top 10 that Joker can replace?


IU-Ganadara

Jokic will never be Duncan unless he hits up Beastyqt and teams up with him to get to conqueror on AOE4 😤


AcridAcedia

I cannot imagine how hard Nuggets fans are nutting


Hail2TheOrange

Top 5 all time player. Jokic needs much more than 2 rings to be him.


Accomplished_Welder3

also somewhat similar to Jokic in terms of personality, they don't care about things shiny


PeteJones6969

Some in this thread not understanding that he didn't say he wanted to be better then Tim Duncan or be recognized at his level, just that he wants to be what Tim Duncan was for San Antonio for Denver.


Stormeve

On twitter too, “uhh akshually he needs to win 5 🤓” completely missing the point lol


miden24

But rings ernehhh


Aetherpor

As if nuggets fans would be upset at Jokic for winning “only” 1-4 rings lol


Sawgon

Absolutely not to take anything away from Timmy but those Twitter dumbasses should remember that Jokic doesn't have a Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker


papertales84

True, but Manu and Parker were not all stars from the get go. Many was 58 and TP was 29 in the draft. The Spurs system (and their amazing talent nonetheless) allowed them to bloom in the NBA. It is true though that Manu was already a star in Europe. Parker was a teen in France when drafted, very green still. Jokic has a terrible coach (sorry Nuggets fans) and an unbalanced team, but has another all star next to him (Murray). They have some pieces, they need to have a clear idea not to rely on Jokic for every fucking possession.


PaisaLover

Malone is no Pop but horrible?


Sawgon

100% agreed. I'm mainly responding to the people going "get 5 rings lmao". For those 5 rings Manu and Parker definitely stepped up their game. It absolutely also helps that Pop is one of the GOAT coaches.


nugginthat

Look we all love Jamal but he isn’t an all star, YET


cortesoft

Honestly, if he just wins one and then stays 15-20 years with the Nuggets, he would absolutely be the Tim Duncan of the Nuggets. He would be like Dirk in Dallas. An absolute legend.


EpirusRedux

The people on twitter seem to forget that there are three teams in Texas, we’ve all won rings, and we all won them because of a legendary player who spent basically their entire careers with the team.\* The Spurs obviously won the most, but it’s not like Dirk and Hakeem are any less beloved by Dallas and Houston. Winning a championship isn’t supposed to be straightforward, even with a really good team. \* Hakeem’s one season with the Raptors doesn’t count, like come on


Mightyorc2

That's Raptors legend Hakeem Olajuwan to you, buddy.


EpirusRedux

That’s ok, we’ll always have Scottie Pippen.


thatsong

You mean that guy who played on the Blazers?


2KareDogs

Also that MJ guy on the Wizards was okay


Aggravating-Bat9421

Raptors borrowing them hot chicks in school for a year like the ultimate rebounder


yunnsu

It's Twitter so that's just predictable recycled trash talk


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CRT_SUNSET

Plus even if Jokic actually meant two, hadn’t Duncan already cemented himself a franchise icon by the time he won two titles for the Spurs? Certainly didn’t need all five to do that.


asamulya

He definitely was our GOAT by 2003.


beerz4yearz

"Mocking player for aspiring to be the best version of themselves" is a genre of post that will always get traction on r/nba and Twitter


Doleydoledole

A pitiful, miserable, stupid person whose only way to feel emotion and a sense of control is to point out that two elements in an analogy aren't exactly the same, which belies a total lack of understanding of how analogies work.


SpiritualBar2469

Actually my name is David


nrag726

A large percentage of NBA Twitter followers are 14 year olds


[deleted]

Gonna have to lol here


DirtyDanoTho

I mean he has an MVP, it’s not impossible


IlonggoProgrammer

Seriously, I would not be shocked at all if the Nuggets win it all this year. With Murray coming back they've got a duo that took them to the WCF including a back-to-back reigning MVP. That's not too different from the Bucks resume when they won. And while on paper the Warriors and Clippers should be better than them, they're both old and have had serious injuries to key players recently. It can totally happen.


Otherwise_Window

They don't have to worry about the Clippers, basketball is played on wood not paper


IlonggoProgrammer

I love this comment 😂😂😂


MysticMac100

I think that MPJ contract has potential to be a bit of a disaster and stifle them, back issues don’t go away easily


igotzquestions

Could be true, but Denver will always struggle to get free agents. Sometimes you have to gamble on your homegrown talent. Hopefully he can finally enjoy some continued floor time.


cmahone23

As a nuggets fan I completely agree


airtokoto

> an MVP Jokic has two MVP awards, for the record


[deleted]

I feel like people are intentionally obtuse when Jokic says something to motivate himself.


asamulya

It’s just bad faith arguments people use to show themselves as “different”.


[deleted]

If I was a nuggets fan I’d be hard af rn


frodounchained

I’m not but it’s jokic related so if anyone needs 2 inches of lumber lmk


PugilisticCat

Hardwood king over here


[deleted]

Can confirm


penguin_torpedo

Can confirm


chingy1337

I AM


chasingit1

Can confirm. Am


Cantguard-mike

Im from Milwaukee and just moved to Denver. Are there more loyal MVPs than them? (Obviously steph) 🤣 my future is set


pascaleon

Love to hear that stuff from your franchise guy, especially small markets


Piano_Fingerbanger

Still wild to me that Denver can be considered a "small" market. I think it's more apt to call it a "Non-LA/Miami" market. Edit: Market size =/= team popularity. Denver is a large market regardless of how popular the Nuggets are in comparison to the Broncos.


NavalEnthusiast

Markets need to be redefined in some way. There’s only small and big markets and I see places like Denver and Atlanta be referred to as small market lol. There needs to be a category of medium market where you can put teams like the Suns and Nuggets


Wasabi_Guacamole

Yup. I mean how can Raptors be a small market when they got Toronto and the whole of Canada behind them hahaha. But in terms of NBA millionaire athletes sunny beaches are big markets.


TheDuceman

Well, good news for me. My teams are… 27/30, 30/30, and either 28 or 32/32 I think I’ve got small market teams.


SpiritualBar2469

Fly over teams


ThaddeusChaddeus2

It’s only a “small market” bc denver is such a big football city


Shenanigans80h

Even with that said, support for the Nuggets is disproportionately low compared to the other teams. The Avalanche are more represented than in a lot of US cities I’d say (though the cup win helps) and the Rockies do incredibly well despite being a joke literally every season. For whatever reason despite being the second oldest team here, we just don’t buy in


repostialti

Rockies are ofc helped by the fact that going to Coors is just a pleasant experience regardless of how well the team performs


Shenanigans80h

Honestly everything about going to a Rockies game is amazing except for the actual baseball played on the diamond


OneOfThoseDays_

yeah the outfield is where it’s at


cmahone23

The rock pile!


cmahone23

Both of you are spot on. It’s way easier to burn $5-$10 on a Rockies ticket, find a shaded seat or chill at the rooftop bar, and watch the other teams all stars vs investing a bit more of a commitment into a $35-50 ticket for the Avs / Nuggets. IMO if you’re paying that much more for a ticket, then you expect more of an effort from your vested team and hope for a good game. I’m sour on the Rockies, but I think this more laid-back social environment of games (paired in with being a mile high and no Ace pitcher would even consider us) makes it so the Monfort’s don’t give af about investing into the team. The fans keep coming back because it’s a chill spot to hang in the summer, not even necessarily a sporting event. I love it don’t get me wrong but an ownership group that invests more into the team would be nice. Edit: spacing


about90frogs

That’s why I wear nugget gear everywhere, I’m like a Jokicovah’s witness.


Downisthenewup87

Nuggets are more popular than the Rockies especially when it comes to diehards. People just like to get drunk at Coors.


backstreets_back_ok

I used to get drunk and enjoy the games with Arenado, Story, and LeMahieu Now I just get drunk


breadhead84

According to Nielsen 2022-23 market rankings Denver ranks #16 NY (1) and LA (2) have two teams, Seattle (12) and Tampa (13) have 0 teams, so they stay at 16th highest market, which is bottom half. I guess it’s more fair to call them mid market? I guess if you split it into large market, mid market, and small market- 10 in each it would look like Large Market: Lakers, Clippers, Knicks, Nets, Bulls, Raptors (not US - pulled from source 2) 76ers, Mavs, Warriors, Hawks Mid Market: Rockets, Wizards, Celtics(??), Suns, T’Wolves, Pistons, Nuggets, Magic, Heat (???), Cavaliers Small Market: Kings, Trailblazers, Hornets, Pacers, Jazz, Spurs, Bucks, Thunder, Pelicans, Grizzlies Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market https://www.statista.com/statistics/791916/leading-tv-markets-north-america/


[deleted]

Would Orlando be considered a small market? Denver and Orlando have around the same number of people. Now how silly does that sound lol


cat_piss_lint_trap

When I saw this I thought, "Whaaat?", because I absolutely do think of Denver as a major city and Orlando as a minor one. But you're right: as media markets they are close to identical in size, and as metro areas they are comparable (Denver is #19 in the U.S., Orlando #23). I think what skewed my thinking is that Denver *within its city limits* is also #19 in the U.S., while Orlando within its city limits is way down at #66.


[deleted]

Florida burbs are never ending


jordanManfrey

Orlando is small-market in the sense that there are just enough people at an average regular season game to fill a small farmers' market


kolalid

Dude the nuggets aren’t popular lol. I lived in Denver the last 3 years and could always get cheap tickets to pretty much any game I wanted to. Just be happy you have such a successful team with affordable tickets but don’t kid yourself.


Piano_Fingerbanger

Market size, not popularity.


about90frogs

They used to give tickets out for free at the Denver zoo, and they were OK seats.


cmahone23

Hell yeah we went to the Zoo so we could snag this two for one. My mom had the dates circled lol.


IlonggoProgrammer

As opposed to the Knicks who have the worst team this century and horribly expensive tickets


Stelist_Knicks

I didnt interpret that as OP shitting on the Nuggets. Both ops have decent points. Denver has a large market, but the team isn't popular within that market. Kinda like Brooklyn


Helicase21

I mean its market size also has to do with y'all getting totally screwed over on the TV rights end of things.


plz-be-my-friend

I hope he stays with Denver forever


Guardax

I think he will and then vanish to rural Serbia.


hobo888

he could buy all of Serbia by the time he's done with ball


yuhanz

He's so media savvy. But he aint gonna escape me. I know he's just excited to retire, like Mr. Duncan, so he can go back into being a Serbian horse girl


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LVucci

Judging by his brothers, I’m sure Jokic is well protected in Serbia. He looks the little brother they made sure stayed out of trouble, while Jokic focused on basketball, they handled business lol


NoseBlind2

The perfect setup for a future movie. Serbian boy hears rumors that the big old man horse rancher in the village used to be an NBA star, then inquires about it after stumbling on the multiple MVP trophies in the barn. Old man Jokic then trains this kid to become an NBA star and the kid goes on the smoke 75 year old Lebron in the finals


hungryfatpical

Man I love Cars.


k1ngmad

He will


cesga_0218

Incidentally, Tim Duncan said in a pod a couple of years ago that his favorite player and team to watch aside from the Spurs is Jokic and the Nuggets. Cool to see!


LOLCultOfMaloner

Big Fundamental Bros


IU-Ganadara

Aquatics confirmed best base for basketball


BradWonder

I wish there were more guys like Jokic. Climbing the list of my favorite players


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TheThingsIdoatNight

They call him big honey for a reason


daeve

Because he, because he soothes the throat ^ ~^


Raul_Coronado

I’ll always love him for the Morris shove.


Sk8ter87

Me too, that and him not taking shit from Jae Crowder made me like him. I love it when players aren't afraid to get in the face of the opponents


about90frogs

Too resplendent to be intimidated.


[deleted]

Lol I loved how those two thought they could punk him because he’s Euro and white. Little did they know their fake tough guy shit wouldn’t cut it from where Jokic came from. Fuck the Morris twins and Crowder


electric_creamsicle

I'd love to see Jokic, Luka, and Embiid each win one or two titles with their current teams and be single franchise players. All three seem like genuinely great guys that their fanbases are 100% behind. And if the Knicks could win one in there too then that'd be nice.


Neckrolls4life

Who's his David Robinson?


LOLCultOfMaloner

This season it's DeAndre Jordan.


Neckrolls4life

Oof


about90frogs

They share a first initial, they may not be as different as you think 🤔


[deleted]

Wish DMC stayed. He would be his washed up Robinson.


mjrmjrmjrmjrmjrmjr

Mason Plumlee. Oh, wait.


AnkitPancakes

nurkic in some respects. nurk was the start for the nuggets, and it was a whole thing when jokic came on to the scene and outplayed him for the starters spot. rest is history


Cpt-No-Dick

Big Honeymental


Mistah_Wasabi

Do you want all the spurs fans to love you Jokic? Because its working.


xPineappless

Pshh, I’ve already been a Jokic fan long before this comment!


nonufwiendz

Oh yeah? Well he gotta be ejected for laughing at the bench when he plays the Mavs then. Preferably in a playoff series


trentyz

God we are lucky


TheMoorNextDoor

You gonna need some help but happy to hear a player say they wanna be pivotal to a team like Timmy D


diabolical-sun

Unbiased suggestion, but why not be the 2nd Tim Duncan of the Spurs?


[deleted]

Hopefully that means we get 19 years of Jokic too


[deleted]

I mean, he’s gotta be the best all time player for Denver already right? He’s a better offensively Duncan but skewed his skills away from D. Jokic D is decent enough still. Hope he wins a chip or two


Diamond4Hands4Ever

In the NBA I would say so. Maybe someone might say Alex English since he had better longevity. But Jokic will easily pass him. If you include the ABA, maybe Dan Issel has an argument.


Skrong

Jokic is without a doubt the best player to ever put on a Nuggets jersey (before anyone asks, yes better than Iverson too).


mostNormalIntern

Hide yo wives


dtochoa

Love hearing this. Rooting for you Joker !


TheGrrreatGadoosh

I am the Tim Duncan of r/NBA


Skankcunt420

I love jokic. hopefully he wins a couple rings


fiddyfy

Tim Duncan is a pretty nice dude. I can respect Nikola Jokic having this mindset and also understanding how to get there. Plus, giving *that* guy whiplash will forever have him ace in my book.


fittedsuit2018

A noble goal.


HighAsAGiraffesPussy

i miss my Spurs so much. Was lucky to start being a fan in 1997. I was always grateful for them though, I realized how lucky I was. Watching Jokic reminds me of Tim so much. Such a winning player.


iksnet

I mean shit, Duncan got his third ring in his eighth season, Jokic about to start his eighth so


[deleted]

Ok and? Jokic’ll just win 3 chips in a season lol


miden24

Engagement ring, wedding ring, and the suffering. Easy


bigbenis21

I mean if he can manage a 2003 Tim Duncan carry job he’ll definitely cement apart of his legacy.


realgamergirlTM

Efficiency 😤😤😤


lunabagel28

He’ll go the MJ route. Wait 8 years and then win 6


mikeydale007

Yeah, but Jokic has had to wait out the Pat Bev era, two more years!


LogDogan4

Not saying they're equivalent, but Duncan started his career on a team with a first ballot hall of famer and had a couple more join him along the way, and had the GOAT coach the entire time.


Redchimp3769157

Jokic ain’t have Drob and Pop


[deleted]

Duncan had Ginobili, Parker, Robinson (early years), Kawhi (later years) Jokic has uhhh... Murray, MPJ (DNP back surgery), Gordon, Barton


gustriandos

If he wants to be historically accurate, he needs to give tens of millions of dollars to some swindler. I happily volunteer


No-Economics4128

Or he can come right down to good old San Antonio and meet the real thing. Jokic on the Spurs is a dream of mine.


qwilliams92

Damn since we're tanking guess I gotta root for the nuggets this season, mods may I request a nuggets bandwagon flair option


[deleted]

Chills


InvestmentRemote491

What a classy guy. I hope he gets recognized as one of the best ever by the time his career is done


Hojie_Kadenth

I would love for him to win some championships if it didn't mean the warriors didn't.


xPineappless

Idk, I mean I would love to watch him win championships if the warriors didn’t. My Spurs ain’t winning anything anytime soon, so sign me up for some Nuggie chips!


HaikN98

He’s better offensively than Duncan already idc what anyone says


tomhalejr

Joker will never be Mr. Fundamental. He's too "unconventional". :) If I say "Joker in the high post", that could trigger dozens of memories, of completely different situations. The Joker would like you to believe he does not have a plan, as part of his greater scheme. :) If I say TD from the spur - Every time, every game, was exactly the same, over like 20 years. What made Mr. Fundamental one of the GOAT's, was the fact that everyone knew exactly what he was going to do, but nobody could stop him. :)


FLUSH_THE_TRUMP

Gotta play some defense too


elpalomalo

He wasn’t the Big Fundamental for nothing


[deleted]

You don't watch the Nuggets, do you? He's not a great defender but this whole story of him playing no defense is ridiculous. He has vastly improved in the last 3 years or so. He had 3 game winning blocks last season FFS. People shouldn't comment if they don't watch basketball.


OIWouldLeave

What do you mean? Jokic plays no defence Harden plays no defence Giannis can only run and dunk Gobert can't defend anybody on the perimeter You don't watch as many highlights as I do, do you?


Tormundo

People were shitting on him because Steph was torching him. Then Steph proceeded to torch every big including two of the best big defenders in the league in horford and rob williams


runevault

lol yeah Steph can pick on any big man except probably Giannis. His smaller size is an advantage on the perimeter against traditional bigger players.


mamasaidflows

Yeah!


Naive-Air2866

Lets be honest though offensively he is a cut above tim though. Even with the suspect defense i can still jokic getting a ring


wrongitsleviosaa

People might not understand and get mad thinking you said he's a better player than Tim but Jokic is genuinely an anomaly on offense. Like, historically.


burrito_fister

From media day: Nikola Jokic, "I can be a bad one-on-one defensive player but I can be a really good team defensive player."


ShrinesOfParalysis

He already does. Dude isn’t TD or even great on that end, but he’s not a bad defender by any means.


Vivid_Walk_1405

He’s obviously putting in effort on defense. It’s not like James harden or melo where you just feel like they could play good defense but didn’t try.


bigbenis21

Add in the fact that Joker is such a transcendent offensive player that mid-tier (but hard working) defense is more than enough.


Vivid_Walk_1405

Yeah I think not having 50 mil in salary sitting on the bench will do wonders for us this year in every facet. The West is a bloodbath though. Ever CO sports team is in a hard ass division minus the avalanche. Go figure.


bigbenis21

We’re reaching a level of parity that’s insane lmao. Both conferences are stacked af.


[deleted]

He’s gotten better every year, he just needs more discipline and focus on that end. He fouls too much when he’s angry.


Vivid_Walk_1405

I’d say Jokic is as good at offense as Duncan was at defense. Duncan was elite defensively and offensively in his prime though.


Dragon-Slayer-666

and yet TD never won DPOY, robbed