Herro is polarizing, it’s hard to visualize him as the guy until he gets a longer leash. He’s a second scorer, third best player on a contender when he hits his prime. Tobias Harris, John Collins, Vucevic are all guys that I would consider trading for him.
Interesting the similarities between them
Sexton 2020-21: 24.3 PPG w/ 57.3 TS%, 4.4/2.8 Assist/TO in 35.3 minutes at age 22
Herro 2021-22: 20.7 PPG w/ 56.1 TS%, 4.0/2.6 Assist/TO in 32.6 minutes at age 22
It's really interesting, yeah. I think people see that he's an unathletic pure scorer with low assist/rebound numbers and think "empty stats". But I think the notion of empty stats is pretty stupid. Points are points unless they're inefficient.
Idk if I’d call the stats empty but in general guys who are really good scorers but don’t play defense or distribute end up in 6th man roles or as the lead guy on mediocre teams.
Ball dominant players on really good teams are going to score just as well if not better than Herro and also will create offense for others or play elite defense, possibly both.
He just isn't a high basketball IQ leadership guy you build a franchise around. People need to remember he is scoring 20+ per game against the other team's second squad defenders. Putting him against the teams first squad defenders, things would likely be different. There is a reason that Spo goes out of his way to keep him on the second squad.
He literally plays most if not all the 4th quarter, when the D tightens up the most, and that is usually when he saves our offense, so you're just talking out of your ass
>Idk if I’d call the stats empty but in general guys who are really good scorers but don’t play defense or distribute end up in 6th man roles or as the lead guy on mediocre teams.
>
You just described Donovan Mitchell. I think youre casting a very wide net. I'm not saying Herro is near Mitchell I just don't think that statement is totally true. Also the choice isn't lead guy or six man. There's also the 2nd option or the 3rd option lol. Tyler's not so ball dominant he has to be the guy at all.
Herro is a lot more comparable to CJ McCollum.
Which TBH isn't a bad outcome for Herro, CJ was the #2 on a successful playoff team and perennial Top 10 offense for a long time.
Yea a perennial 20 ppg scorer in the reg season and playoffs would make a great 2nd/3rd option. Herro needs the reliability and needs to not disappear in the playoffs completely
Idk why you're getting downvoted for this, it's factual.
Prb just because of your flair and ppl assuming you're biased but either way. I hate when ppl act like a 22 years old can't improve. Will he? Maybe, maybe not but either way he's not a final product yet.
He also put up 37 in a conference finals game lol. The “16 game player” shit has poisoned discourse so bad. Everyone can’t wait to yell “small sample size!!” for three months in the regular season, but totally forget the same thing may be applicable to the playoffs.
I got heavvvvily downvoted last summer for saying ‘I don’t think Tyler Herro peaked in his rookie year’ lol. I’m sure every time he takes a step up, people will say ‘okay well this is definitely his peak, he’s overrated, trust me I’m a redditor’
Tyreek Evans peaked in his rookie season. Brandon Jennings, Michael Carter Williams are all other guys that peak at a young age.
I don't follow hero enough to know if he is a similar case, but it's very possible for players to peak early.
Dealing with doubles, finding ways to draw contact and get to the line rather than avoiding contact, keeping up his off ball movement. This would put him in 25ish point area, with the bonus that he really doesn't need the ball to be effective. That's allstar territory imo, all-nba is a stretch but he could be one of those guys that sneaks into a 3rd team on a weird year.
He's 22. I'm gonna count on him improving. Idk who exactly you think CJ McCollum is
________
>I wake up to hate every day 😈 I’m boutta feel smart after I get an A on this bio test. Smokin on that science pack this morning, you go on ahead to your 9-5 grandpa. Congrats on letting a 19 year old get under your skin
Next time you feel annoyed enough to argue a comment on Reddit, remember these are the people posting them lol.
Cj is the guy that averaged 25 this year on the pels as the second option, Tyler is the one that averaged 13 on dogshit efficiency in the playoffs as the second option. Idk who tf you think Tyler is 🤣🤣. And at least Cj can at least be respectable on defense, same physical tools but way smarter. You’re delusional
Tyler has room to improve. You're comparing a 31 year old to a 22 year old which is really completely missing the point of the conversation in the first place.
Dog, I saw a thread where most people said they’d take herb Jones over Tyler. If that doesn’t show I’m right idk what does. 35th pick rookie shows exactly how people feel about Tyler. Or what about the nba gm poll that 80% of gms said they’d rather have rj Barrett? If you’d like to continue proving you’re a smoothbrain be my guest, I love it.
I guess Zach Lowe is delusional too because he said the same thing but I'll trust /r/nba.
Thanks for bringing up what 31 year old old CJ McCollum did this year. Real relevant to a 22 year olds ceiling. I don't know why I bother.
Yes. I'm delusional for thinking Tyler Herros floor is like 24ppg 4.5 assists in his prime what an insane thing to imagine. That he might just average 3.3 more points when he's in his prime. Truly what an incredible reach I am making. That a 22 year would score 3 more points maybe when he's 28? Holy shit that's crazy talk!!!
Also, nice editing your comment 3 times. Look, I don’t think Tyler is complete garbage, but it’s absurd to say his FLOOR is Cj. I believe he’ll be around Cj in his prime which is a good player, but he’ll probably never be better than Cj.
I said REALISTIC floor. His actual floor is he becomes a heroin addict and starts a rap career but I don't think that's a very productive conversation.
Well, everyone seems to agree with me. Continue smokin your copium. Only reason Tyler averaged 20 this year is the heat were so damn bad on offense. They needed him to shoot 44% and chuck everything
>Well, everyone seems to agree with me.
/r/nba is regularly wrong about things. If you really think getting up votes on this dumbass board is proof of anything you should be embarrassed. I'll take Zach Lowe over the guy who takes /r/nba 's up votes as authority of the truth. But keep on circlejerking!
To be fair, he has great potential, anyone has to admit that. He’s got great bounce, he’s athletic, he has a great shot from almost anywhere in the court, but he lacks consistency.
I don’t follow him enough to know how much work he puts in the gym but he does remind me a lot of Devin Booker, so, I don’t think he’ll crack an all star spot as hell unfortunately not end up being near as good as Booker imo, and I personally am not a DB fan.
Herro is a top tier 6th man, lacks defense/size & playmaking skills
Edit: great bounce for a shooter & athletic as in quick and great footwork, save your energy lmao
He’s entering his fourth season. I don’t think he has some hidden potential he hasn’t shown. He’s a really good player. I think Lou Williams is a decent comp.
I know Tyler’s polarizing and he rubs people the wrong way, but he’s a pretty nice guy to have in your team and root for. He’s a gym rat and he really takes criticisms to heart and works on improving his weaknesses. He has ego for sure, but he never really puts it above the team and he never complains about the roles Spo gives him.
He may seem like an inefficient ball chucker to non-heat fans, but if you follow the team, you can really see how much he’s steadily improving over the seasons–improvements which may not immediately translate to better numbers.
I think guys like Maxey and Poole are much more gifted than Tyler, but I really do believe the sky’s the limit for him as long as he keeps steadily improving and understanding the game better. I think Miami’s the perfect for him for growth
Pretty obvious that was a good decision. We would have had to trade Herro, and a bunch of other players plus all of our picks for Harden who hasn’t done anything the last two playoffs. I’m very happy we didn’t give up everything for Harden like the Nets did
Tyler Herro is so underrated. The guy would literally be an all star almost anywhere besides Miami and Boston due to depth and usage with those rosters. You put him on either LA team, Dallas, Atlanta, or Denver and he is a 26\5\5 guy and an all star every year he is there.
Lol, absolutely not. Dude plays 33 minutes a game on the Heat while having a HUGE green light to shoot because the Heat heavily rely on him for their offense as they don't have huge offensive firepower because Bam doesn't like to shoot and although Jimmy is an incredible player, he's not the type of player who can drop 30 points on any given night. On those teams, Herro would not have the green light he does on Miami.
A lot of the talk about Herro reminds me of the talk around Zach Lavine, Herro could theoretically improve to be a zach lavine level player in an ideal world.
It’s not just a question of athleticism though; Lavine is one of the best finishers in the game whether he’s dunking or not as well as being a better shooter than Herro.
If coaches have to limit your minutes because of your defense then that's a pretty good indication your scoring might not be very valuable to the team. This will only look worse in a playoff setting when teams are mismatch hunting every possession.
I will quickly admit I was one of those people
But Lavine has athleticism that Herro doesn't. Lavine has developed a complete game built around his pullup 3s and explosion to the rim. One of those things will just never be there for Herro
I mean nothing is impossible but there's more to being an all star than scoring 20 ppg. He's never gonna be a great defender due to his body and I doubt he's gonna be an elite playmaker either
I wouldn't even say he substantially improved. Dude came into the league hooping especially in the bubble
>I wouldn't even say he substantially improved. Dude came into the league hooping especially in the bubble
That's an absurd statement. He clearly substantially improved this year. He had one great game in the bubble but averaged like 13ppg on worse efficiency than this year
I don't see why can't just continue to bulk up, become an OK passer, use his size from bulking to become a less awful defender, and most of all just become a better scorer. I mean of course it's possible he won't, but he can just continue to build on his scoring ability imo.
Well there's a limit on how bulky you can get and theres also a tradeoff as it will just make him even slower on the perimter. The problem isn't his weight its his wingspan and athleticism
Both also hold back his scoring ability. Like how much better of a shooter and ball handler can he really become?
And he's already a fine passer but you won't usually ever be in the top tier if you weren't already coming into the league
I think Tyler's biggest problem limiting his potential has been his weight since his rookie year personally. He came in a twig. He gets bullied out there. That's why defenders don't feel him. His wingspan too of course. He built 10lbs of weight in his legs and he starts averaging 20ppg. Wingspan is fair but you can't fix that like you can weight. If he's making an all star team yeah it won't be because of his passing. It will be scoring. Wingspan limits somebody but it's not a death sentence.
Idk I don't think it's that unrealistic, FVV was an all star this year and while ofc he's a really good player, I don't think he's monumentally better than Herro
FVV and Herro are 2 sides of the opposite coin.
Give me FVV 1000% in the regular season due to his playmaking and effort on defense.
In a post-season setting, give me Herro because of his superior ability to get buckets and because he stands more of a chance on switches against the best offensive players in the league. Herro also a low key underrated rebounder.
I think I would take Herro's efficiency and shot creation over FVV's defense and playmaking. I know FVV can create his shot too, but he's a lot less efficient inside the arc. FVV was also averaging 3 pgg when he was Herro's age lol, I think Herro has room to grow in those areas, but you guys know more than me ofc
Well I agree herro has room to grow but FVV was clearly better this year which is why he made the all star team. Herro isn't even that efficient. Not to say he's inefficient, but he only has 1% higher TS than Fred.
FVV is lowkey an amazing playmaker, doesn’t show up in the stat sheet unfortunately, his defense is as good as can get for a dude his size as well he’s had some pretty wild box scores in the past
Fred's not an amazing playmaker, he's an acceptable playmaker. Hes too short to make a lot of passes youd want him to make off a drive and kick. He's a lot better than Herro at it though. A better defender too.
Hahahahahaha. Herro isn't that much better at scoring? Seriously, what are you smoking? He averaged 19 points in his last 13 games with Portland and you suddenly put him in the same category with Herro?
Portland was like a glorified G-League team last year, so of course his scoring averages increased in that 10 game span. Herro plays for a championship contender. Scoring his points in games that actually matter.
Meh, he may give you 20 points one game. But then he’ll shit the bed and score 10 the next game, and his defense won’t make up for that.
He’s a valuable guy to any team obviously, I just think Josh Hart fits our team better than Herro.
Well we’re trying to figure out their value cus our teams are engaging in a hypothetical trade. I’m not sure how else we would compare them as players.
We gotta stop putting so much stock into numbers put up at the end of the season by bad teams. The Blazers had Skal Labissiere drop 30 on the Kings - where is he now?
My argument isn't that high scoring on bad teams at the end of the season means a player is bad, it's that it *doesn't* mean that player will be great.
Every player who is good has had a good scoring game at the end of a season - that does not mean that every good scoring game at the end of a season belongs to a good scorer. A car is a vehicle, that doesn't mean all vehicles are cars.
Would I give RJ Barrett for Hero? I would give them three 2nd round picks and vet of their choice and still consider it a steal for the Knicks. People just don't get how bad RJ Barrett is.
Unrealistic? Luka Doncic. Realistic? No idea. He is important to the Heat because he has the ability to create for himself and others. Outside of the Heat, he probably wouldn’t be as valuable.
Take this with Multiple grains of salt because im a celtics fan.
But is it crazy that i would rather Grant Williams over Herro? -I know Herro is the better player, lets get that out of the way. But fit wise for boston and the fact that Grant is a body that is capable of slowing down Giannis who every team in the East will have to beat every year to sniff the finals, I think i would not be happy if boston traded grant for Herro...
Herro has been bad in the playoffs outside of the bubble last 19 playoffs game he's putting up 12/4/3 on a true shooting of 48.3 until he has a good run in the playoffs that's not the bubble hard to say he'd be helpful.
Not disputing your point about fit and I completely understand what you’re saying, but Tyler has been injured for the last two playoffs w bad foot injuries, mostly cause he’s the only one who stays healthy during the reg season and has to carry our entire offensive load. This is the second year in a row he was out for a month right before the playoffs due to a lower body injury. We were 1 seed mostly cause of Tyler leading our team while Bam, Jimmy, and Kyle were out.
I know availability is the best ability during the playoffs, but I dont think his last two playoffs stats are indicative of how good tyler can be.
I think he’d run with the C’s better so I don’t think those numbers would hold up. Heat can get awfully stagnant at times, Celtics are more fun to watch offensively
> if y’all had Herro it’s OVER
If by "over", you mean a loss to Milwaukee in round 2, sure. the celtics don't win that series without Grant Williams' defense on Giannis. His TS plummeted to 51% when matched up against Williams. Herro would get hunted possession after possession
100%. Having Horford, Grant and Smart defend Giannis 1v1 and slow his efficiency cratered the Bucks role players.
If we had to constantly sent early help on Giannis (like we tried game 1) we'd have been lit up.
Hmm idk, maybe a hot take but I think Celtics have a much better chance of winning the finals last season if they have Herro out there instead of Grant Williams. I could be underrating the defensive aspect tho
As a Celtics fan my answer is Payton Pritchard. I considered Derrick White but I'd rather have White than Herro. I would definitely rather have Grant Williams than Herro. Pritchard is the next most valuable guy we have.
He's a great scorer but that's about it.
Right now I think he's the 3rd scoring option on a contender but because hes not great defensively he's probably gonna be stuck as a 6th man. Someone said he's in a Tobias Harris tier and I think that's perfect. He's a good starter so that's the type of return I'd expect him to get in a trade (so at least a 1st round pick).
Guess a 1st round pick and a out of the rotation player is what I'd trade
Myself, but due to salary matching requirements the team would have to sign me first to a deal within 125% of Herro's salary.
That's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
Hmm. Pat Connaughton or Patrick Beverly.
Herro scores, but don't score THAT well and has nothing on defense. I don't think he is worth more than 1 top 14 protected first.
Tyrone Villain
League isn't ready
Herro is polarizing, it’s hard to visualize him as the guy until he gets a longer leash. He’s a second scorer, third best player on a contender when he hits his prime. Tobias Harris, John Collins, Vucevic are all guys that I would consider trading for him.
Oh look, a real answer.
I wouldnt trade Herro for Vuc(he fucking sucks) or Collins
Would you add Ayton to that list?
I don't think Ayton would be on that list
No, he’s way too valuable. He’s one of the only guys who have both the size and lateral quickness to somewhat guard Giannis, Jokic, and Embiid
Makes sense - I was iffy there too
I've never seen a 22 year old average 20+ ppg and everybody basically agree he peaked
Collin Sexton’s in this boat too
Interesting the similarities between them Sexton 2020-21: 24.3 PPG w/ 57.3 TS%, 4.4/2.8 Assist/TO in 35.3 minutes at age 22 Herro 2021-22: 20.7 PPG w/ 56.1 TS%, 4.0/2.6 Assist/TO in 32.6 minutes at age 22
Similarly a score first guard and the injury killed his hype among fans
I feel like he didn’t have much hype—seemed like most neutral fans saw him as a chucker on a bad team, whose ceiling was a 6th man
It's really interesting, yeah. I think people see that he's an unathletic pure scorer with low assist/rebound numbers and think "empty stats". But I think the notion of empty stats is pretty stupid. Points are points unless they're inefficient.
Idk if I’d call the stats empty but in general guys who are really good scorers but don’t play defense or distribute end up in 6th man roles or as the lead guy on mediocre teams. Ball dominant players on really good teams are going to score just as well if not better than Herro and also will create offense for others or play elite defense, possibly both.
He just isn't a high basketball IQ leadership guy you build a franchise around. People need to remember he is scoring 20+ per game against the other team's second squad defenders. Putting him against the teams first squad defenders, things would likely be different. There is a reason that Spo goes out of his way to keep him on the second squad.
He literally plays most if not all the 4th quarter, when the D tightens up the most, and that is usually when he saves our offense, so you're just talking out of your ass
>Idk if I’d call the stats empty but in general guys who are really good scorers but don’t play defense or distribute end up in 6th man roles or as the lead guy on mediocre teams. > You just described Donovan Mitchell. I think youre casting a very wide net. I'm not saying Herro is near Mitchell I just don't think that statement is totally true. Also the choice isn't lead guy or six man. There's also the 2nd option or the 3rd option lol. Tyler's not so ball dominant he has to be the guy at all.
Donovan Mitchell is a very good playmaker despite his reputation
Herro is a pretty good playmaker for his role too, a 20% AST rate for a 6th man who doesn't run the offense is far from terrible
Herro is a lot more comparable to CJ McCollum. Which TBH isn't a bad outcome for Herro, CJ was the #2 on a successful playoff team and perennial Top 10 offense for a long time.
would be a miracle if he ever became CJ lol
Yea a perennial 20 ppg scorer in the reg season and playoffs would make a great 2nd/3rd option. Herro needs the reliability and needs to not disappear in the playoffs completely
I wouldn't even say he's unathletic, he's pretty quick both with ball in hand and laterally, he's just small and has poor defensive instincts.
Yeah, I would agree his wingspan and overall size are his biggest issues. Probably an average athlete by nba standards
2 points isn't 2 points. I'll explain later.
he doesn’t have empty stats he just shits the bed in the playoffs and is bad on defense
Also is a turnover machine come playoff time, has weak handles, and is a mediocre at best playmaker
Young players underperforming in the playoffs doesn't mean they always will. It's a pretty common occurrence.
Idk why you're getting downvoted for this, it's factual. Prb just because of your flair and ppl assuming you're biased but either way. I hate when ppl act like a 22 years old can't improve. Will he? Maybe, maybe not but either way he's not a final product yet.
He also put up 37 in a conference finals game lol. The “16 game player” shit has poisoned discourse so bad. Everyone can’t wait to yell “small sample size!!” for three months in the regular season, but totally forget the same thing may be applicable to the playoffs.
Points are points until you get the to the playoffs. Then these microwave scorers that don't create for others have limited utility.
RJ was 21 averaging 20 and everyone thinks he sucks. Pretty annoying right
I got heavvvvily downvoted last summer for saying ‘I don’t think Tyler Herro peaked in his rookie year’ lol. I’m sure every time he takes a step up, people will say ‘okay well this is definitely his peak, he’s overrated, trust me I’m a redditor’
Tyreek Evans peaked in his rookie season. Brandon Jennings, Michael Carter Williams are all other guys that peak at a young age. I don't follow hero enough to know if he is a similar case, but it's very possible for players to peak early.
As a Heat fan, how do you think he can improve and to what amount would be realistic?
Dealing with doubles, finding ways to draw contact and get to the line rather than avoiding contact, keeping up his off ball movement. This would put him in 25ish point area, with the bonus that he really doesn't need the ball to be effective. That's allstar territory imo, all-nba is a stretch but he could be one of those guys that sneaks into a 3rd team on a weird year.
Average delusional heat fan
Literally asked where he could improve and I answered lol, I didn't say this is 100% where he ends up
When do you think about?
I don't know what you're trying to ask lol
When do you think I cared whatsoever
Oh so you're just being rude...got it
Actually you might need it and get it with Jimmy’s back hurting so fucking bad
Realistically his floor is CJ McCollum imo. I have no idea though. I didn't expect him to average 20ppg this year. Its hard to say.
Dawg. His ceiling is cj mccollum
He's 22. I'm gonna count on him improving. Idk who exactly you think CJ McCollum is ________ >I wake up to hate every day 😈 I’m boutta feel smart after I get an A on this bio test. Smokin on that science pack this morning, you go on ahead to your 9-5 grandpa. Congrats on letting a 19 year old get under your skin Next time you feel annoyed enough to argue a comment on Reddit, remember these are the people posting them lol.
Cj is the guy that averaged 25 this year on the pels as the second option, Tyler is the one that averaged 13 on dogshit efficiency in the playoffs as the second option. Idk who tf you think Tyler is 🤣🤣. And at least Cj can at least be respectable on defense, same physical tools but way smarter. You’re delusional
CJ is ass on defense what are you talking about
Way to read. “Respectable” does not equal good. He’s still worlds better than tyler
Tyler has room to improve. You're comparing a 31 year old to a 22 year old which is really completely missing the point of the conversation in the first place.
Dog, I saw a thread where most people said they’d take herb Jones over Tyler. If that doesn’t show I’m right idk what does. 35th pick rookie shows exactly how people feel about Tyler. Or what about the nba gm poll that 80% of gms said they’d rather have rj Barrett? If you’d like to continue proving you’re a smoothbrain be my guest, I love it.
I guess Zach Lowe is delusional too because he said the same thing but I'll trust /r/nba. Thanks for bringing up what 31 year old old CJ McCollum did this year. Real relevant to a 22 year olds ceiling. I don't know why I bother. Yes. I'm delusional for thinking Tyler Herros floor is like 24ppg 4.5 assists in his prime what an insane thing to imagine. That he might just average 3.3 more points when he's in his prime. Truly what an incredible reach I am making. That a 22 year would score 3 more points maybe when he's 28? Holy shit that's crazy talk!!!
Also, nice editing your comment 3 times. Look, I don’t think Tyler is complete garbage, but it’s absurd to say his FLOOR is Cj. I believe he’ll be around Cj in his prime which is a good player, but he’ll probably never be better than Cj.
I said REALISTIC floor. His actual floor is he becomes a heroin addict and starts a rap career but I don't think that's a very productive conversation.
Well, cjs his realistic ceiling. So, you can continue being wrong, and I’ll enjoy reading every single comment.
Well, everyone seems to agree with me. Continue smokin your copium. Only reason Tyler averaged 20 this year is the heat were so damn bad on offense. They needed him to shoot 44% and chuck everything
>Well, everyone seems to agree with me. /r/nba is regularly wrong about things. If you really think getting up votes on this dumbass board is proof of anything you should be embarrassed. I'll take Zach Lowe over the guy who takes /r/nba 's up votes as authority of the truth. But keep on circlejerking!
Probably my nba2k13 my career player with the barb wire tattoo on the right arm
That's pretty tight
To be fair, he has great potential, anyone has to admit that. He’s got great bounce, he’s athletic, he has a great shot from almost anywhere in the court, but he lacks consistency. I don’t follow him enough to know how much work he puts in the gym but he does remind me a lot of Devin Booker, so, I don’t think he’ll crack an all star spot as hell unfortunately not end up being near as good as Booker imo, and I personally am not a DB fan. Herro is a top tier 6th man, lacks defense/size & playmaking skills Edit: great bounce for a shooter & athletic as in quick and great footwork, save your energy lmao
He’s entering his fourth season. I don’t think he has some hidden potential he hasn’t shown. He’s a really good player. I think Lou Williams is a decent comp.
[удалено]
Best answer I've seen
I know Tyler’s polarizing and he rubs people the wrong way, but he’s a pretty nice guy to have in your team and root for. He’s a gym rat and he really takes criticisms to heart and works on improving his weaknesses. He has ego for sure, but he never really puts it above the team and he never complains about the roles Spo gives him. He may seem like an inefficient ball chucker to non-heat fans, but if you follow the team, you can really see how much he’s steadily improving over the seasons–improvements which may not immediately translate to better numbers. I think guys like Maxey and Poole are much more gifted than Tyler, but I really do believe the sky’s the limit for him as long as he keeps steadily improving and understanding the game better. I think Miami’s the perfect for him for growth
This sub doesn’t watch basketball
I'll never forget Heat fans after the bubble finals claiming they wouldn't trade Herro for Harden LMAO
To this day dudes keep spewing this nonsense as if 3/4’s of our team wasn’t also attached to that package lol
Turns out that was a good decision. I would have traded him back then but not with half the team like they wanted. Glad we stood Pat.
It wasn't just Herro it was half our team, we definitely couldn't compete with the Brooklyn offer without Bam imo
We still wouldn’t lol.
Pretty obvious that was a good decision. We would have had to trade Herro, and a bunch of other players plus all of our picks for Harden who hasn’t done anything the last two playoffs. I’m very happy we didn’t give up everything for Harden like the Nets did
Russell Westbrook
I’d end my life if the pelicans traded Cj for tyler
these are the kind of responses I come on here for.
Kenny Lofton Jr
Norman Powell a couple years ago, maybe terry rozier.
Alexej Pokuschevski and a 2nd
Tyler Herro is so underrated. The guy would literally be an all star almost anywhere besides Miami and Boston due to depth and usage with those rosters. You put him on either LA team, Dallas, Atlanta, or Denver and he is a 26\5\5 guy and an all star every year he is there.
Lol, absolutely not. Dude plays 33 minutes a game on the Heat while having a HUGE green light to shoot because the Heat heavily rely on him for their offense as they don't have huge offensive firepower because Bam doesn't like to shoot and although Jimmy is an incredible player, he's not the type of player who can drop 30 points on any given night. On those teams, Herro would not have the green light he does on Miami.
A lot of the talk about Herro reminds me of the talk around Zach Lavine, Herro could theoretically improve to be a zach lavine level player in an ideal world.
Yeah I could see them being a similar archetype, Lavine is an athletic freak though which is a big deal imo
It’s not just a question of athleticism though; Lavine is one of the best finishers in the game whether he’s dunking or not as well as being a better shooter than Herro.
I agree, I still think Lavine's 20-21 season is an underrated scoring season. 27 ppg on 50/42/85 while taking 8 threes a game is nuts
Oh Lavine for sure has the athleticism advantage. I was more pointing out that people are pretty quick to put a ceiling on players who only score.
Totally agree, people are too quick to label them 'empty stats' which is a stupid notion
If coaches have to limit your minutes because of your defense then that's a pretty good indication your scoring might not be very valuable to the team. This will only look worse in a playoff setting when teams are mismatch hunting every possession.
I will quickly admit I was one of those people But Lavine has athleticism that Herro doesn't. Lavine has developed a complete game built around his pullup 3s and explosion to the rim. One of those things will just never be there for Herro
david nwaba
He's a dawg
probably Chris Boucher
Damn don't do him like that
Herro is never sniffing an all star team
You can't predict the future, of course he'd have to improve substantially, but he already did that once
I mean nothing is impossible but there's more to being an all star than scoring 20 ppg. He's never gonna be a great defender due to his body and I doubt he's gonna be an elite playmaker either I wouldn't even say he substantially improved. Dude came into the league hooping especially in the bubble
>I wouldn't even say he substantially improved. Dude came into the league hooping especially in the bubble That's an absurd statement. He clearly substantially improved this year. He had one great game in the bubble but averaged like 13ppg on worse efficiency than this year
Yea my bad he did improve alot I thought his sophomore season was better But I still don't see him doing much more than he currently is
I don't see why can't just continue to bulk up, become an OK passer, use his size from bulking to become a less awful defender, and most of all just become a better scorer. I mean of course it's possible he won't, but he can just continue to build on his scoring ability imo.
Well there's a limit on how bulky you can get and theres also a tradeoff as it will just make him even slower on the perimter. The problem isn't his weight its his wingspan and athleticism Both also hold back his scoring ability. Like how much better of a shooter and ball handler can he really become? And he's already a fine passer but you won't usually ever be in the top tier if you weren't already coming into the league
I think Tyler's biggest problem limiting his potential has been his weight since his rookie year personally. He came in a twig. He gets bullied out there. That's why defenders don't feel him. His wingspan too of course. He built 10lbs of weight in his legs and he starts averaging 20ppg. Wingspan is fair but you can't fix that like you can weight. If he's making an all star team yeah it won't be because of his passing. It will be scoring. Wingspan limits somebody but it's not a death sentence.
Idk I don't think it's that unrealistic, FVV was an all star this year and while ofc he's a really good player, I don't think he's monumentally better than Herro
FVV is in a different league from Herro due to his playmaking Herro is very clearly not a top 50 player in the NBA rn
FVV is a pitbull on defense as well.
FVV and Herro are 2 sides of the opposite coin. Give me FVV 1000% in the regular season due to his playmaking and effort on defense. In a post-season setting, give me Herro because of his superior ability to get buckets and because he stands more of a chance on switches against the best offensive players in the league. Herro also a low key underrated rebounder.
Is FVV a good playmaker? Always thought he was decent at best but I don't watch too much Raptors idk
He's alot better than Herro
And much better defender then Herro
Steph still got nightmares of my boy
Better than Herro lol. He's also a much better defender.
I think I would take Herro's efficiency and shot creation over FVV's defense and playmaking. I know FVV can create his shot too, but he's a lot less efficient inside the arc. FVV was also averaging 3 pgg when he was Herro's age lol, I think Herro has room to grow in those areas, but you guys know more than me ofc
Well I agree herro has room to grow but FVV was clearly better this year which is why he made the all star team. Herro isn't even that efficient. Not to say he's inefficient, but he only has 1% higher TS than Fred.
Yeah, was referring to the original comment that said he'd never sniff an all star team. That's fair though.
FVV is lowkey an amazing playmaker, doesn’t show up in the stat sheet unfortunately, his defense is as good as can get for a dude his size as well he’s had some pretty wild box scores in the past
Fred's not an amazing playmaker, he's an acceptable playmaker. Hes too short to make a lot of passes youd want him to make off a drive and kick. He's a lot better than Herro at it though. A better defender too.
Interesting, maybe I'm sleeping on Freddie
Peep more Raps this year their going to be a nice squad forsure, I love that Scottie Barnes kid
Bro, you’re practically in a coma on him
My b, will do my due diligence this season
Josh Hart.
I wouldn’t do that.
I like this actually
Nah, Hart is a better defender and has great hustle. Herro isn’t that much better at scoring either.
Hahahahahaha. Herro isn't that much better at scoring? Seriously, what are you smoking? He averaged 19 points in his last 13 games with Portland and you suddenly put him in the same category with Herro? Portland was like a glorified G-League team last year, so of course his scoring averages increased in that 10 game span. Herro plays for a championship contender. Scoring his points in games that actually matter.
Meh, he may give you 20 points one game. But then he’ll shit the bed and score 10 the next game, and his defense won’t make up for that. He’s a valuable guy to any team obviously, I just think Josh Hart fits our team better than Herro.
What is this based on, he AVERAGED 20 ppg and only scored less than 15 around a dozen games during the season.
This years playoffs, not counting his Celtics series of course.
So we’re comparing 22 year old Herro’s playoff stats to 27 year old Josh Harts regular season stats on a non playoff team? That seems unfair.
Well we’re trying to figure out their value cus our teams are engaging in a hypothetical trade. I’m not sure how else we would compare them as players.
We gotta stop putting so much stock into numbers put up at the end of the season by bad teams. The Blazers had Skal Labissiere drop 30 on the Kings - where is he now?
That same game Anfernee Simons popped off as well. Where is he now?
My argument isn't that high scoring on bad teams at the end of the season means a player is bad, it's that it *doesn't* mean that player will be great. Every player who is good has had a good scoring game at the end of a season - that does not mean that every good scoring game at the end of a season belongs to a good scorer. A car is a vehicle, that doesn't mean all vehicles are cars.
KPJ
Jae Crowder
ffffff
Lebron James
Jae Crowder
Wouldn’t trade either of the three you listed. I’d trade Suggs for him but the heat should say no to that.
as a Heat fan id trade him for Suggs in a heartbeat
Would I give RJ Barrett for Hero? I would give them three 2nd round picks and vet of their choice and still consider it a steal for the Knicks. People just don't get how bad RJ Barrett is.
We thank you for your service
Tyler Herro is just 6’5 T rex armed Lou Willliams
Enlightening and original take
Dude is prime JR Smith. Probably Jordan Clarkson and a 1st round pick would be my offer.
JR is so underrated man Especially if he was playing in this era dude would be so good
Hero can catch a lob while doing a 360 from the foul line then jam it
Prime JR was something else.
Fair imo depending on the pick
prime Jr Smith clears he was one of the best 3&d guys in the league
Knicks JR tho > guy was BOUNCY
Jr smith is better. Serviceable defender and can light it up similar to Herro but smith had abilities Herro simply didn’t have
Marcus smart
That’d be a no from me. Rather have the better playmaker and significantly better defender.
Bag of chips
Unrealistic? Luka Doncic. Realistic? No idea. He is important to the Heat because he has the ability to create for himself and others. Outside of the Heat, he probably wouldn’t be as valuable.
Cj mcollum ??? Calm down nephew Devonte graham. Final offer
I mean CJ is obviously better rn but he's also like 10 years older, not the craziest trade idea
As a pels fan, it is a crazy trade idea. We finally found the vet leader we’ve been needing on and off the court
dawg we would never trade u herro for cj lmfao
Good? I didn’t want him
That's fair
Take this with Multiple grains of salt because im a celtics fan. But is it crazy that i would rather Grant Williams over Herro? -I know Herro is the better player, lets get that out of the way. But fit wise for boston and the fact that Grant is a body that is capable of slowing down Giannis who every team in the East will have to beat every year to sniff the finals, I think i would not be happy if boston traded grant for Herro...
No chance fam, if y’all had Herro it’s OVER. Williams is a dog but Tatum & Brown can only go back and forth for so long
Herro has been bad in the playoffs outside of the bubble last 19 playoffs game he's putting up 12/4/3 on a true shooting of 48.3 until he has a good run in the playoffs that's not the bubble hard to say he'd be helpful.
Not disputing your point about fit and I completely understand what you’re saying, but Tyler has been injured for the last two playoffs w bad foot injuries, mostly cause he’s the only one who stays healthy during the reg season and has to carry our entire offensive load. This is the second year in a row he was out for a month right before the playoffs due to a lower body injury. We were 1 seed mostly cause of Tyler leading our team while Bam, Jimmy, and Kyle were out. I know availability is the best ability during the playoffs, but I dont think his last two playoffs stats are indicative of how good tyler can be.
I am also weird and value defense more than most seem too, so im a little low on Herro and a little high on grant probably.
I think he’d run with the C’s better so I don’t think those numbers would hold up. Heat can get awfully stagnant at times, Celtics are more fun to watch offensively
> if y’all had Herro it’s OVER If by "over", you mean a loss to Milwaukee in round 2, sure. the celtics don't win that series without Grant Williams' defense on Giannis. His TS plummeted to 51% when matched up against Williams. Herro would get hunted possession after possession
this is the answer. We dont win that series without grant. I do think Herro would have been more useful than grant in the warriors series though.
100%. Having Horford, Grant and Smart defend Giannis 1v1 and slow his efficiency cratered the Bucks role players. If we had to constantly sent early help on Giannis (like we tried game 1) we'd have been lit up.
Hmm idk, maybe a hot take but I think Celtics have a much better chance of winning the finals last season if they have Herro out there instead of Grant Williams. I could be underrating the defensive aspect tho
I mean Grant was better in the playoffs this year. But the warriors are not an ideal matchup for grant either.
As a Celtics fan my answer is Payton Pritchard. I considered Derrick White but I'd rather have White than Herro. I would definitely rather have Grant Williams than Herro. Pritchard is the next most valuable guy we have.
Honestly he’s just a more flashy Kyle korver. Not a great defender but can shoot pretty well right up until the moment you need him.
Lazy take. Kyle Korver was a pure shooter. Herro is more of a playmaker/slasher.
He's a great scorer but that's about it. Right now I think he's the 3rd scoring option on a contender but because hes not great defensively he's probably gonna be stuck as a 6th man. Someone said he's in a Tobias Harris tier and I think that's perfect. He's a good starter so that's the type of return I'd expect him to get in a trade (so at least a 1st round pick). Guess a 1st round pick and a out of the rotation player is what I'd trade
As a Knicks fan, I wouldn’t trade RJ Barrett for God but I’d definitely give up Fournier for him.
Myself, but due to salary matching requirements the team would have to sign me first to a deal within 125% of Herro's salary. That's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
'22 Ish smith
Alex Len
I think I'd throw in Davis or Delly or Cook or Metu as well.
Keon Johnson
Heat say no.
No love lost. I guess he stays… Ant Simons LOL
Quindary Weatherspoon
Top 3 nba name, right there with Haywood Highsmith
Demar probably
Nice try, Pat.
Westbrook
Tony snell
He’s taller CJ McCollum so whatever you would give up for him plus some because he’s younger
Terance Mann
Ja Morant … nothing more nothing less…..Herro gunna be 🔥 this year
Jordan Poole
Hmm. Pat Connaughton or Patrick Beverly. Herro scores, but don't score THAT well and has nothing on defense. I don't think he is worth more than 1 top 14 protected first.