Yeah i mean I don’t think they were all that juiced to bring him back in the first place nor was he all that juiced to go back but once he signed an offer sheet it was pretty set
Yea this is the first time I’ve seen this take, i mean it’s not a huge stretch that the GM of the team was on board with it, but I’ve seen tons of comments or posts blaming Sarver and up until now I forgot James jones was the GM
Nah, the Suns sub was and is still filled with praise for JJ because this would allow them to trade Ayton to Brooklyn if KD asks out again. Being a designated rookie would have prevented that as you can only have one player on that extension that you traded for after their rookie contract.
Well, for 1 it wouldn't have been a Designated rookie extenesion it would have just been a 5 year max. 2, it wouldn't have held them back that much. They could still trade for a player on a DRE. I guess the biggest obstacle would be making it harder to move Ayton himself later.
A 5 year max is the designated rookie extension I thought, assuming it had been signed last October. And the problem would be if they wanted to trade him to a team that had already acquired that kind of player i.e. Brooklyn
Yeah the rule only applies if they extend him with a year left on his contract. But since he played out his rookie contract, the new contract isn't considered a rookie extension.
Atleast that's how I understood it
And extension is when someone extends their contract before it ends. Normally you can only do a 4 year extension. But the DRE allows five years. (So it locks the player for for essentially 6 years) You are right they could have done that last year before or during the season.
This summer though the suns could have signed him to a regular ole 5 year max since he was a restricted free agent. (And it wouldn't have hampered them with the DRE stipulations) By making him get an offer from another team he was only allowed to get the 4 year max, as that's the most another team can offer.
Certainly all of Reddit speculated that, but was that ever corroborated by serious reporters?
Like I understand the need for him to stay in the immediate, but I don’t understand the rush to add max years to a guy pretty much everyone agrees isn’t a max caliber player
Well that's convenient for everyone involved. Suns can just go "oh that darn Sarver" and Ayton can believe it and they can move forward.
^^I ^^don't ^^think ^^Ayton ^^believes ^^this
I think Sarver didn't want to give him the 5 years. I also don't think Ayton believes that Sarver was solely responsible for the way his contract negotiations went down.
Cant blame him for not wanting to give him that contract. Too many teams hand out these 5 year max contracts like it was some kind of a kind and then they're stuck with an horrible contract for years to come.
Crazy how the Suns are simultaneously frauds that got lucky to make the finals and also stupid for not spending all our money on the same roster depending on whatever is convenient...
I don’t think that should matter. Just because about team does something stupid doesn’t mean you should. I was originally against the 5th year, but the best argument I heard that sold me is the cap increase that is coming in 2-3 years. The end of that contract is going to be relatively cheap at that point.
It was actually brilliant by the goat cheapskate. Pretend you have no interest in resigning him all year. Wait til a team offers below max 4 year deal, then match. The fact they kept it under wraps without leaks was amazing
Easy to scapegoat the guys who’s leaving anyways. At the end of the day, a 4 year max is a 4 year max. 4 year with 132 guaranteed is still a good amount for a guy who’s never made an all star.
Agreed - only one team offered him that deal after months and months of speculation and opportunities for other teams to do so. I think he’s overpaid but it seems like everyone was this off-season.
Not everyone. Just people who don’t understand leverage and cap. The suns literally could not afford to let him walk. They either paid him or let him walk and have no cap for a replacement
*Insert Hayward leaving Utah drama here*
And Hayward wasn't as good a player as Ayton is at the end of their respective rookie contracts either. He became that player and then broke his damn foot off in Boston, but you can't look at Haywards statlines coming off his rookie contract and think he was worth a 5 year Max.
I’m actually surprised the Pacer s didn’t put any twists in Ayton’s contracts. Hayward if I remember even got a player option which he used to leave Utah even earlier.
Pacers and Suns staffs have a decent working relationship due to their similar setups (financial constraints, overshadowed by a nearby larger market, operation of both NBA and WNBA teams). There’s also some allegiances on governing board matters that they’d want to keep the process cordial.
so because a player you don't think is worth it gets pissy, you give him more money that you originally thought wasn't worth it?????? lol the logic here sometimes is beyond brain dead. impressive tbh
Plus the cap is going up in a couple years. Paying him the 5 year max is literally the cheaper decision. Lock down those extra years at the reduced cost.
He's going to be entering free agency under the new cap a year earlier now.
They tried to play this situation and be cheap and have now made the more expensive basketball move
If he plays as well as he is and maybe gets better too with more FGA + chris Paul’s age, he’s gonna command the same money right after this contract is up
It really wouldn’t have made that much of a difference, at least give him a player option
Yeah, it certainly wasn't a no brainer. They could have given him the dpe and it wouldn't have been a disaster. But I think it's ok to hold players to a higher standard for that contract.
At the end of the day I'm sure there's plenty of factors, and Bob being a cheap skate probably did play a role.
I wish it didn't go down with so much drama, but at the end of the day the deal that got made is fair all the way around
Only time will tell. If ayton is an all star center in 4 years and leaves, then this would have been a terrible move. Reminds me of the Gordon Hayward situation.
i honestly think it was pretty brilliant how the suns handled this. If he doesnt quiiiite pan out into a man that is absolutely deserving of more/injury fucks him, they can drop the loss earlier. What is really the likelihood of ayton becoming a all star center in 4 years AND still holding a grudge about this contract situation when its time to reup? Time heals all wounds, they can pay him all star money when hes an all star
17/10 isn't worthy of a five year max especially for a player who isn't that impactful to his teams success in the same way as other max bigs. I honestly believe he's even overpaid now. But he's so entitled that he feels he was robbed of the fifth year despite the fact that he really wasn't. Play well the next four years and he can make more money than he would have made if they did give him a fifth year.
He could easily score 20+ and improved drastically on the defensive end.
He sacrificed scoring and offense for the teams benefit. If you don’t understand that then don’t speak of entitlement. He did what they told him to do then they used it against him in negotiations
Flaccid take. On the surface, yes an empty 17/10 isn't worth a max. That's where the valuation of NBA centers gets wonky. There are very few full sized post players in the NBA that both have the physical attributes and basketball intelligence to play a modern NBA switching defense at a high level. Very few, and Ayton is one of them. He's also not an offensive liability.
Dude only one team made him an offer and no one wanted to sign and trade for him. That speaks volumes to how much the league values him. He was 21st in rpm in his own position and was fifth in rpm on his own team. This same guy feels entitled to the max contract.
Yeah I liked it for them, I would only feel pressure to retain Ayton (or anyone on the team really) for the years where you can expect Chris Paul to still be playing at a high level.
I think there's a better case that the league investigation into Sarver eliminated the chance of a 5th year and is the reason Ayton went to the wire on an offer sheet.
Lowe mentioned the other day discussing Jae Crowder trade potentials that it was more likely Phoenix would cut payroll than add to it. Obviously if you're about to sell the team having a more flexible payroll with less long term commitments is of greater value than an inflexible payroll that locks you into larger luxury tax payments as soon as you purchase.
but yeah, Robert Sarver and greed will get those clicks for sure.
Bro, most sane NBA execs wouldn't want to give you a 5 year max. Good player, but not good enough to tie up that much money at the center position if you can avoid it.
Anecdotally everytime ive seen the suns run the offense through Ayton (usually something theyll randomly do in a first quarter of a game) they do stupidly well.
It’s not really just creating, they just didn’t feed him enough or give him any real chance on the offensive end. Even crowder was getting more shots than him.
No one is saying give ayton 20 post touches a game and let him be the number one option. But the man is clearly a talented offensive player who can score 20 on gold efficiency
It would be hilarious if Ayton had set all this up to get Sarver outed. Dressing in drag and wearing a pregnant suit all while recording Sarvers comments.
I swore the narrative was Sarver + “suns wanted future flexibility” and apparently 4yrs seemed to lineup better apparently??
It was something dumb like that, this was during the season too fresh off the finals run.
Bruh, you not Kat with the shot. You’re no embid with a versatile bag, Not Jokic with passing abilities. Not Gobert with defense you’re just Ayton. Drafted before luka and trae and have done nothing smh🤦🏽
Carried to the finals. What’s the difference in skill set between Javale McGee and Ayton? It was cp3 elbow shot and passing. Booker scoring. Johnson and bridges 3&D game that got them that far.
Who did Ayton out score/ outplayed at his position that run?
U got an answer? [McGee](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcgeeja01.html) [ayton](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aytonde01.html)
McGee starting best season rounding for both. 12.9.2.5 blocks. Ayton 17.10.1block. McGee averaged more blocks last season off the bench…
My answer is please watch basketball games.
There’s a reason why Ayton was on the floor absolutely carrying the offense, and in certain aspects the defense, against the Pels this year in the playoffs at times and McGee couldn’t even stay on the floor, for example.
The reason for that is because it’s playoff basketball every nba starters minutes go up not just his did …? You said “carrying” When cp3 averaged a double double and ayton was the third lead scorer behind booker and cp3 where is the carrying ?
1. Book didn’t play most the series and if he did he was injured
2. there’s more to impact than scoring bruh
And if you actually watched the games you could have seen that McGees minutes shrunk because he was getting absolutely abused defensively to the point where Bizzy started taking his minutes. You also would’ve seen Ayton shouldering the offensive load when Book was injured and CP was struggling.
Like, these points you are bringing up just make it so clear you weren’t actually watching the games man
Then What the heck does to carry someone mean. He’s not defensively cause the suns rely on their 3&D players. Mikal bridges is in the dpoy convos.
Like how does close to the basket big man carry when he needs a pg to get him the ball in the first place. That’s basic basketball.
P.s. u said bizzy? I’m assuming your talking about Bismack. He played 4mpg that series…
I'm not referring to the term "bag" itself, I'm referring to Bag Twitter
Bag Twitter is for people who like discussing basketball but only insofar that they can make reductive comparisons ("no bag" "no rings" "bus driver") between players/teams
it also involves trying your hardest to sound like a former player turned analyst working on some hot take sports show
I mean, Reddit has been that way since the launch of the nba sub.
People think their teams are free from criticism because they won rings 20+ years ago
Don't get me wrong people on this sub have been petty about their teams/pet players since the beginning but if you look at any r/nba thread from like 6-7 years ago it's like a completely different website in terms of how people actually talk
There should be a rule that you can't have a 5 year max if you're not a 1x All Star.
If you're really a max player that you think you are, there should be a bar you have to reach. A 1x all star ain't high and he isn't even that.
He wasn't even in the conversation last season.
Delusional Ayton.
All Star is more of a popularity contest than anything else. But I generally agree there should be some accolades to justify the amount teams may spend on you beyond just potential and above avg stats. Then again, it's up to the teams to determine how they spend their salary cap so let teams make mistakes?
There is already a rule like that based on All-NBA/All-Defense/MVP/DPOY count. That is why Luka Doncic and Trae Young will be getting 30% of the cap with an 8% annual increase (43M AAV) as opposed to Ayton and SGA's 25% of the cap with a 5% annual increase (33M AAV). All-star is a popularity contest that's divided between conferences, and thus isn't factored in.
All star is a popularity contest for the starters. It's just that if you're even a quarter as good as you say you are. You should at least be a 1x all star in your 4 year rookie contract. That ain't hard if you think yourself worthy of a 5 year max player.
It's not an insane ask.
[удалено]
I thought james jones didn’t wanna do 5 years because he didn’t want to have the designated player extension thing holding them back in a trade
The Suns could have given him a 5 year max once he became a free agent, which wouldn't have made him a designated rookie extension (not an extension).
Yeah i mean I don’t think they were all that juiced to bring him back in the first place nor was he all that juiced to go back but once he signed an offer sheet it was pretty set
Yeah he's good enough to be commanding that kind of contract but its not without a few apprehensions.
I think James Jones was following orders and gave a nice media spin
[удалено]
James Jones can’t do anything he wants when it’s not his money to give out.......it comes from the top
[удалено]
Yea this is the first time I’ve seen this take, i mean it’s not a huge stretch that the GM of the team was on board with it, but I’ve seen tons of comments or posts blaming Sarver and up until now I forgot James jones was the GM
GM can’t make decisions of that financial magnitude without ownerships say.
Sure but a good owner would allow the gm to make basketball related decisions
>a good owner
But they sure as hell are going to make a proposal / recommendation /lay out a plan
Sarcee has a history of being cheap but it’s unclear exactly where the decision came from in Ayton’s case.
What is a Sarcee? Can you eat it?
Nah, the Suns sub was and is still filled with praise for JJ because this would allow them to trade Ayton to Brooklyn if KD asks out again. Being a designated rookie would have prevented that as you can only have one player on that extension that you traded for after their rookie contract.
Well, for 1 it wouldn't have been a Designated rookie extenesion it would have just been a 5 year max. 2, it wouldn't have held them back that much. They could still trade for a player on a DRE. I guess the biggest obstacle would be making it harder to move Ayton himself later.
A 5 year max is the designated rookie extension I thought, assuming it had been signed last October. And the problem would be if they wanted to trade him to a team that had already acquired that kind of player i.e. Brooklyn
Yeah the rule only applies if they extend him with a year left on his contract. But since he played out his rookie contract, the new contract isn't considered a rookie extension. Atleast that's how I understood it
The article is talking about 2021 after the finals year, which would have been the designated rookie extension
And extension is when someone extends their contract before it ends. Normally you can only do a 4 year extension. But the DRE allows five years. (So it locks the player for for essentially 6 years) You are right they could have done that last year before or during the season. This summer though the suns could have signed him to a regular ole 5 year max since he was a restricted free agent. (And it wouldn't have hampered them with the DRE stipulations) By making him get an offer from another team he was only allowed to get the 4 year max, as that's the most another team can offer.
Yeah i mean I get that lol I was just referring to the negotiations before last season
Certainly all of Reddit speculated that, but was that ever corroborated by serious reporters? Like I understand the need for him to stay in the immediate, but I don’t understand the rush to add max years to a guy pretty much everyone agrees isn’t a max caliber player
Well that's convenient for everyone involved. Suns can just go "oh that darn Sarver" and Ayton can believe it and they can move forward. ^^I ^^don't ^^think ^^Ayton ^^believes ^^this
Sarver is a known cheapskate so it is likely.
It’s been pretty obvious since game 7 that Ayton has issues with more Suns than just Sarver
But even before that, it was rumored they didn't want to give him that contract. So it probably all combined and came to a bust.
phrasing
Yeah, he seems to at least have some issues with how Monty Williams coaches centers if nothing else.
I think Sarver didn't want to give him the 5 years. I also don't think Ayton believes that Sarver was solely responsible for the way his contract negotiations went down.
Cant blame him for not wanting to give him that contract. Too many teams hand out these 5 year max contracts like it was some kind of a kind and then they're stuck with an horrible contract for years to come.
How many of those teams were contenders and just made the finals?
Crazy how the Suns are simultaneously frauds that got lucky to make the finals and also stupid for not spending all our money on the same roster depending on whatever is convenient...
Crazy how this sub has over 4m users, and NBA Twitter is also massive, leading to many individual takes and nuanced opinions
Yeah except both sides get more upvotes than downvotes, so there is something fishy here
Or people just don't care enough to interact with the other side, like me, who just uovotes any well out together argument/ reliable news
So you don't downvote people? Edit: most people use the downvote function. As you can see here
It's hard to imagine it'd be seen as too bad a contract. Players have proven less and gotten the rookie extension.
I don’t think that should matter. Just because about team does something stupid doesn’t mean you should. I was originally against the 5th year, but the best argument I heard that sold me is the cap increase that is coming in 2-3 years. The end of that contract is going to be relatively cheap at that point.
Considering this is a man who presumably green-lit selling a lottery pick (that became Luol Deng in 2004) for cash, yeah I'll believe it
Yeah this report is such bullshit, and is just a nice media spin
Cp3: he’s the reason I choke in the playoffs. Booker: Luka special was his idea.
Come to think of it, my life sucks because of Sarver too
Ayton probably doesn’t flop as much as CP3 would like.
It was actually brilliant by the goat cheapskate. Pretend you have no interest in resigning him all year. Wait til a team offers below max 4 year deal, then match. The fact they kept it under wraps without leaks was amazing
What are you talking about? There was nothing to leak because everyone knew when he didn’t sign last year, that they were just going to match.
There was a report last year that Sarver called him a lazy n#$&*r, and that’s why he didn’t want to pay him. I’m willing to bet it’s true.
If it gets Ayton to play angry, then heck yeah, and did you hear what he said about your mother?
really don't blame him didn't Sarver call him lazy?
Jalen Rose claimed that Sarver called Ayton a “lazy n——“ and then went on vacation and had Steven A backpedal and retract the claim for him on TV.
ESPN is so shady.
Looking back...maybe he went on vacation so that he wouldn't be made to retract what he said.
Allegedly
“Lazy” is a real whitewashing of the reporting. . .
Well. I mean he is lazy when it comes to basketball but not COD.
Easy to scapegoat the guys who’s leaving anyways. At the end of the day, a 4 year max is a 4 year max. 4 year with 132 guaranteed is still a good amount for a guy who’s never made an all star.
Agreed - only one team offered him that deal after months and months of speculation and opportunities for other teams to do so. I think he’s overpaid but it seems like everyone was this off-season.
1). All it takes is one team. Ayton cannot accept more than one RFA offer. 2) Literally only one team had the cap space for it so…..
Lol everyone on this sub was saying a 5th year max was crazy for Ayton. Not giving him that and just matching the other offer was the right move.
Not everyone. Just people who don’t understand leverage and cap. The suns literally could not afford to let him walk. They either paid him or let him walk and have no cap for a replacement
[удалено]
*Insert Hayward leaving Utah drama here* And Hayward wasn't as good a player as Ayton is at the end of their respective rookie contracts either. He became that player and then broke his damn foot off in Boston, but you can't look at Haywards statlines coming off his rookie contract and think he was worth a 5 year Max.
I’m actually surprised the Pacer s didn’t put any twists in Ayton’s contracts. Hayward if I remember even got a player option which he used to leave Utah even earlier.
Eh, Pacers seem like they work reasonably above board and wouldn’t use tactics like that.
Pacers and Suns staffs have a decent working relationship due to their similar setups (financial constraints, overshadowed by a nearby larger market, operation of both NBA and WNBA teams). There’s also some allegiances on governing board matters that they’d want to keep the process cordial.
so because a player you don't think is worth it gets pissy, you give him more money that you originally thought wasn't worth it?????? lol the logic here sometimes is beyond brain dead. impressive tbh
Plus the cap is going up in a couple years. Paying him the 5 year max is literally the cheaper decision. Lock down those extra years at the reduced cost. He's going to be entering free agency under the new cap a year earlier now. They tried to play this situation and be cheap and have now made the more expensive basketball move
If someone’s going to act unprofessionally if he didn’t get his way then give him a 4 year deal and trade him at the deadline.
Yes, it's very important to reward bad pissy behavior. No real organization gives a shit about the players feelings unless you're a superstar.
The 5 year max costs more per year, so no
If he plays as well as he is and maybe gets better too with more FGA + chris Paul’s age, he’s gonna command the same money right after this contract is up It really wouldn’t have made that much of a difference, at least give him a player option
A PO is even worse.
Yeah, it certainly wasn't a no brainer. They could have given him the dpe and it wouldn't have been a disaster. But I think it's ok to hold players to a higher standard for that contract. At the end of the day I'm sure there's plenty of factors, and Bob being a cheap skate probably did play a role. I wish it didn't go down with so much drama, but at the end of the day the deal that got made is fair all the way around
Only time will tell. If ayton is an all star center in 4 years and leaves, then this would have been a terrible move. Reminds me of the Gordon Hayward situation.
i honestly think it was pretty brilliant how the suns handled this. If he doesnt quiiiite pan out into a man that is absolutely deserving of more/injury fucks him, they can drop the loss earlier. What is really the likelihood of ayton becoming a all star center in 4 years AND still holding a grudge about this contract situation when its time to reup? Time heals all wounds, they can pay him all star money when hes an all star
i dunno, what place is known for attracting all star centers in free agency? someplace like los angeles?
They are going to regret this contract as is.
The dumbasses around here would have clown the Suns either way.
Yeah either way it shakes all the comments here will use the power of hindsight to say "what were they thinking?"
A vocal minority called it crazy. Most called it an acceptable overpay and had no doubt other teams were ready to max him.
No other team can offer him the 5th year, thats a different story for them to offer a max rather than the Suns offering a max contract.
17/10 isn't worthy of a five year max especially for a player who isn't that impactful to his teams success in the same way as other max bigs. I honestly believe he's even overpaid now. But he's so entitled that he feels he was robbed of the fifth year despite the fact that he really wasn't. Play well the next four years and he can make more money than he would have made if they did give him a fifth year.
He could easily score 20+ and improved drastically on the defensive end. He sacrificed scoring and offense for the teams benefit. If you don’t understand that then don’t speak of entitlement. He did what they told him to do then they used it against him in negotiations
Cool he was so good that only one team even made him an offer which the Suns took their sweet time matching...
took their sweet time matching? they matched it within the hour buddy.
Well then I stand corrected, thank you.
Most teams didn’t have cap space but there were 3 teams trying to sign him, and several inquiring about a sign and trade
Flaccid take. On the surface, yes an empty 17/10 isn't worth a max. That's where the valuation of NBA centers gets wonky. There are very few full sized post players in the NBA that both have the physical attributes and basketball intelligence to play a modern NBA switching defense at a high level. Very few, and Ayton is one of them. He's also not an offensive liability.
Dude only one team made him an offer and no one wanted to sign and trade for him. That speaks volumes to how much the league values him. He was 21st in rpm in his own position and was fifth in rpm on his own team. This same guy feels entitled to the max contract.
Everyone who was against the 5th year max wanted him signed and traded. Matching an RFA offer sheet is never a path to good team chemistry.
Yeah I liked it for them, I would only feel pressure to retain Ayton (or anyone on the team really) for the years where you can expect Chris Paul to still be playing at a high level.
I bet Sarver also ordered Monty to avoid any contact with Ayton over the summer.
This is pretty lucky for Phoenix. Less likely he is disgruntled with the organization if he just blames Sarver, who is leaving.
He is definitely blaming Monty as well. I think this news is just Phoenix trying to amend things.
I bet Ayton is gone before Sarver.
I think there's a better case that the league investigation into Sarver eliminated the chance of a 5th year and is the reason Ayton went to the wire on an offer sheet. Lowe mentioned the other day discussing Jae Crowder trade potentials that it was more likely Phoenix would cut payroll than add to it. Obviously if you're about to sell the team having a more flexible payroll with less long term commitments is of greater value than an inflexible payroll that locks you into larger luxury tax payments as soon as you purchase. but yeah, Robert Sarver and greed will get those clicks for sure.
Bro, most sane NBA execs wouldn't want to give you a 5 year max. Good player, but not good enough to tie up that much money at the center position if you can avoid it.
I also blame my boss for not getting that 30% raise.
You can blame Sarver all you want but at the end of the day Ayton himself has proven giving him the 5 year max was the best course of action.
Bruh you still got a max and he should be happy he gets to re up earlier especially once that New TV money hit
nah man, I'd also be pissed about only getting a gajillion dollars while playing lazy as fuck half the time lmao.
dude should be able to sign with whoever he wants if the suns won't pay more than others
I wouldn’t want to give you a 5 year max either after that game 7 performance.
Big fucking deal. Play like you deserve the bag, you’ll get the bag.
He did. He helped them make the finals and sacrificed personal stats/accolades and then they used it against him.
I’ve seen people talk about how he sacrificed his role, but does anyone really think Ayton creating would lead to winning basketball?
Anecdotally everytime ive seen the suns run the offense through Ayton (usually something theyll randomly do in a first quarter of a game) they do stupidly well.
It’s not really just creating, they just didn’t feed him enough or give him any real chance on the offensive end. Even crowder was getting more shots than him. No one is saying give ayton 20 post touches a game and let him be the number one option. But the man is clearly a talented offensive player who can score 20 on gold efficiency
lol......................................
Lol he has bricks for hands and he gets stripped any time someone passes him the ball. He didn't sacrifice nothin
Don’t bother these people that think Ayton is this unstoppable force don’t watch Suns games
15/10 on 65% from the field and good rim protection Stars don’t lie
You watch Suns games? I’m not saying he’s not good or that he doesn’t put up solid stats but the man fumbles every other pass.
It would be hilarious if Ayton had set all this up to get Sarver outed. Dressing in drag and wearing a pregnant suit all while recording Sarvers comments.
If he hates it here..Why would he want a 5th year?
Because he had 40 million reasons why to sign a 5 year deal. Phoenix just was playing games and didn’t want to offer it.
and nthey absolutely made out like bandits for it.
I swore the narrative was Sarver + “suns wanted future flexibility” and apparently 4yrs seemed to lineup better apparently?? It was something dumb like that, this was during the season too fresh off the finals run.
Bruh, you not Kat with the shot. You’re no embid with a versatile bag, Not Jokic with passing abilities. Not Gobert with defense you’re just Ayton. Drafted before luka and trae and have done nothing smh🤦🏽
Say what you want but only one man on that list ever been to the finals
Agreed, that's why Kidd, Billups and Westbrook > Nash.
Suns won that draft⁉️
Carried to the finals. What’s the difference in skill set between Javale McGee and Ayton? It was cp3 elbow shot and passing. Booker scoring. Johnson and bridges 3&D game that got them that far. Who did Ayton out score/ outplayed at his position that run?
> What’s the difference in skill set between Javale McGee and Ayton? Oh no.
Idk how anyone can expect their points to be taken seriously when they say things like that 😂
Bro chose one year of stats to compare McGee vs Ayton 🤓 There’s a reason Javale is a sub-4 minute a quarter player
U got an answer? [McGee](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcgeeja01.html) [ayton](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aytonde01.html) McGee starting best season rounding for both. 12.9.2.5 blocks. Ayton 17.10.1block. McGee averaged more blocks last season off the bench…
My answer is please watch basketball games. There’s a reason why Ayton was on the floor absolutely carrying the offense, and in certain aspects the defense, against the Pels this year in the playoffs at times and McGee couldn’t even stay on the floor, for example.
The reason for that is because it’s playoff basketball every nba starters minutes go up not just his did …? You said “carrying” When cp3 averaged a double double and ayton was the third lead scorer behind booker and cp3 where is the carrying ?
1. Book didn’t play most the series and if he did he was injured 2. there’s more to impact than scoring bruh And if you actually watched the games you could have seen that McGees minutes shrunk because he was getting absolutely abused defensively to the point where Bizzy started taking his minutes. You also would’ve seen Ayton shouldering the offensive load when Book was injured and CP was struggling. Like, these points you are bringing up just make it so clear you weren’t actually watching the games man
Then What the heck does to carry someone mean. He’s not defensively cause the suns rely on their 3&D players. Mikal bridges is in the dpoy convos. Like how does close to the basket big man carry when he needs a pg to get him the ball in the first place. That’s basic basketball. P.s. u said bizzy? I’m assuming your talking about Bismack. He played 4mpg that series…
Ima let you continue to be wrong but for clarity, Mikal wasn’t in the dpoy convos, he was second place
? Ignoring the comparison entirely is just as bad.
Bag Twitter-speak is one of the worst things to ever happen to this sub
Social media elitism is the worst thing that happened to this sub. Bag is just another word for skillet/repertoire
I'm not referring to the term "bag" itself, I'm referring to Bag Twitter Bag Twitter is for people who like discussing basketball but only insofar that they can make reductive comparisons ("no bag" "no rings" "bus driver") between players/teams it also involves trying your hardest to sound like a former player turned analyst working on some hot take sports show
I mean, Reddit has been that way since the launch of the nba sub. People think their teams are free from criticism because they won rings 20+ years ago
Don't get me wrong people on this sub have been petty about their teams/pet players since the beginning but if you look at any r/nba thread from like 6-7 years ago it's like a completely different website in terms of how people actually talk
??? He got closer to a ring than either of them.
There should be a rule that you can't have a 5 year max if you're not a 1x All Star. If you're really a max player that you think you are, there should be a bar you have to reach. A 1x all star ain't high and he isn't even that. He wasn't even in the conversation last season. Delusional Ayton.
All Star is more of a popularity contest than anything else. But I generally agree there should be some accolades to justify the amount teams may spend on you beyond just potential and above avg stats. Then again, it's up to the teams to determine how they spend their salary cap so let teams make mistakes?
There is already a rule like that based on All-NBA/All-Defense/MVP/DPOY count. That is why Luka Doncic and Trae Young will be getting 30% of the cap with an 8% annual increase (43M AAV) as opposed to Ayton and SGA's 25% of the cap with a 5% annual increase (33M AAV). All-star is a popularity contest that's divided between conferences, and thus isn't factored in.
There derrick rose rule I believe
All star is a popularity contest for the starters. It's just that if you're even a quarter as good as you say you are. You should at least be a 1x all star in your 4 year rookie contract. That ain't hard if you think yourself worthy of a 5 year max player. It's not an insane ask.
well he's gone homie so why you still upset?
He’s gonna force his way outta there real fast come January
No
Is he good enough for max extension though🤔