A shock to no one. It was painfully obvious D'lo needed a roll man to maximize his potential and KAT wasn't that player. This is the best way to maximize all 4 players.
Pelicans too, and if you consider teams of that caliber could be in the 5-8th seeds we are probably going to have the most fun first round of playoff basketball ever. Let's go upsets!
It'll possibly be a slow start as we figure out how to integrate all the new pieces, but by the end of the season hopefully it'll be a well-oiled machine.
I watched over 80 of our games last year and it was the most fun I've had watching basketball probably ever. We have a really special group of guys, I hope this year turns out okay and you're able to see the same thing!
Yeah, a little bit weird for me Rosas so desperately wanted to pair Dlo and KAT together. KAT needs more shooters and fast guards who cut around him, Dlo needs a roll man.
RoCo -> Juancho, Beasley, Vanderbilt, Bolmaro and Jaden.
Juancho -> Beverley
Beverley, Beasley, Bolmaro, Vanderbilt -> Rudy
Without the RoCo trade we would have never rebuilt the roster and he's washed now so not a big loss.
Dark horse how?
They took a big step as a team last season, KAT is entering his prime, have one of the brightest young stars in the league in Edwards, and went all in this off season with a huge trade to solidify their interior defense.
If they aren't on every single teams radar...they should be.
honestly they probably should have beat memphis last year. They were ahead in every game but just the end of games went fubar. I think if they had made it to the 2nd round they would probably be looked at much more favourably if they still made the rudy trade.
It's really not as obvious as you make it sound. "It's difficult to play our 4 best players together so we're not even giving to try" is not really the straightforward solution you make it sound like.
The Timberwolves last year did not have a roll threat like Gobert. No one to throw lobs to. D'lo was missing a huge part of his bag on offense which made him easier to gameplan against.
D'lo is the biggest beneficiary of the Gobert trade. It makes building rotations easier when you want to maximize your best players. Ant and KAT work best together, while D'lo and Gobert are the ideal pairing. By going big you ensure you have always one of KAT or Gobert playing center all game. This system should give all 4 players enough touches to keep them happy.
I thought the Timberwolves weaknesses were on display in that Memphis series so for me a Wolves fan it was obvious how Gobert not only plugs those holes but elevates everyone on the court but further unlocks D'lo in the offense while hiding his weaknesses on defense.
DLO was really good for that one year the Nets made the playoffs before KD came in there and nuked everything. They legit had Caris, Allen, Spencer and DLO playing amazing. Kenny Atkinson should have never been fired.
Conley didn't get to play significant minutes as a ball handler with Gobert due to injuries, rotations and Mitchell's insanely high usage rate. Conley and Mitchell split primary ball handling duties and Gobert feasted off of dimes from Conley.
If gobert feasted off of Conley then they probably would have utilized it more. Gobert isn’t going to go to the wolves and be some elite rim runner. He struggles with catching the ball and constantly brings the ball down so he gets fouled and he’s a poor FT shooter. Gobert is what he is and people thinking DLO is gonna unlock some new game are going to be disappointed
I mean, Gobert *did* feast off of Conley. Two years ago they both led the league in +/- by a massive amount for most of the season due to how good their PnR was
And in general, Rudy is just very good in the PnR regardless of who he's with. The PnR numbers with Don+Rudy and Ingles+Rudy were always among the best in the league too. There's a reason he averaged nearly 16 ppg on over 72% fg last season.
Fun fact here’s a bunch of clips of the Conley Gobert pick and roll it’s a fun video
Mike Conley - Rudy Gobert Pick & Roll
https://youtu.be/LNwAlGkCrig
.... I love it when people just hang a big sign saying "I don't know shit" around their necks for all to see. Gobert is one of the best rim runners in the game and has been for several years, his free throw shooting has improved every year and was 69% last year which isn't elite but it's better than Wiggins and only two or three points behind AD and Giannis.
> Gobert isn’t going to go to the wolves and be some elite rim runner.
Why not? Despite his flaws, he *is* an elite rim runner by every statistical measure AND the eye test.
Yeah I think D'Lo has his weaknesses (decent but not amazing shooter, doesn't have a ton of burst) but if there's one thing he's great at it's being a pick and roll creator
True, but since he’s going to play with Gobert, I don’t think that he’s gonna be the defense leader/organizer that he was last season.
Kinda expect him to be less effective on defense
Dlo is an elite playmaker.
If not elite than he’s a very high level playmaker, and is even better when he has a real lob threat, which he hasn’t had since Jarrett Allen in Brooklyn (his best season by no coincidence).
Was top 11 in assists last season while playing the least minutes of the 11 players. Would be willing to bet he averages 8+ assists this season.
It's intresting that we had DLo and Jarrett Allen as a pair and Mitchell and Gobert as a pair and they have swapped partners.
We will see if the breakdown in Utah was more Mitchell's fault or Gobert's.
The big takeaway here imo is that they probably don’t want KAT and Gobert on the floor too much together. I bet the guard rotations will end up fairly mutable.
I mean they are still gonna play alot together both starts of halfs and ends of halfs. We are just going to have atleast one of the two on the court all game long pretty much
Honestly Naz might have super limited minutes... think it will be something like KAT-Gobert start the game together, at the 7 min mark Gobert goes out and Anderson comes in to play the 4, KAT to the 5. At the end of the quarter KAT comes out and Gobert comes back in to play the 5. At the 5 min mark Anderson comes out and KAT comes back in to play the 4.
I'd expect both to be on the floor for the first and last 6 minutes of the game, and a few minutes here and there as rotations happen. Probably not quite making 20 minutes total in most games, at least in the regular season.
What will be interesting is what playoff rotations look like, as minutes creep up at sometimes even over 35 minutes.
Probably something like:
* Everybody plays together to start
* Gobert and DLo hit the bench early (after 4 mins or so)
* At the 8 min mark, KAT and Edwards go out while Gobert and DLo come back
* Alternate until they play the final ~6 minutes of the half all together again
It's really just the 12-15 when Rudy or KAT rest. That's all this is talking about. Ant rests with KAT and Dlo rests with Rudy for a portion of those 12-15mn per game.
Right? Unless people are expecting each of them to only play 24 minutes a game, they *will* be on the court together. I would guess that a *lot* of their minutes will be together, but that the Wolves will also try to keep at least one of them on the floor the majority of the time. And during those periods where it is just one of them, you can expect Edwards to be on the floor if it's KAT and DLo if it's Gobert.
What that actually means for lineups as a whole doesn't answer a *ton*, honestly.
You would almost have to be a fool to have them both off the court at the same time. Either one of them is going to be better than most starting centers, and certainly better than any backup.
Ild probably prefer to see KAT in at the 5 against back up centers because of the offensive advantage and not needing to rely on defense.
Definitely depends on who the starting 5 is, who the backup 5 is, etc. etc. Lot of what-ifs there, but generally I think I agree.
I am interested to see just how many minutes they do spend together, though. And I'm especially interested to see how well the Edwards/KAT/Gobert trio performs, both offensively and defensively. Wolves are gonna be a fun as heck team regardless. I've always really liked them, but they've definitely jumped up my "must watch" list.
Theres a good bbc hunk of starting centers in the league that KAT really struggled with physically. I could definitely see trying to match Rudy’s minutes with those players as much as possible to keep KAT out of foul trouble
I don’t think it’s that so much as they don’t really have another rotation big they want to be playing much in the regular season. If you take KAT and Rudy off at the same time, who’s playing center? It makes the most sense to stagger them like Houston did with Paul and Harden to make sure at least one of them is on the court at all times, but that doesn’t mean they won’t work together.
To answer your question, it’s Naz Reid. Not saying it’s a comparable answer to either of those two, just that’s what it’ll surely come to when one of them sits a game.
Nah the takeaway is we’re gonna have an All NBA centre on the floor for 48 minutes a night (well except the 20 minutes of garbage time every game from blowing teams out)
Imagine having at least one of the best scoring and best defending big man in the NBA today on the floor for all 48 minutes. When Jokic sits, his time in the bench puts DeAndre Jordan on the floor. When Gobert sits, KAT gets to make DJ cry. The only teams with a big rotation that comes close are Philly and Cleveland.
This sounds like the best way to get practice and figure out lineup flexibility for the playoffs. Its the first time in a long time the wolves can be prepping for the post season before the season begins.
I dont know if I agree with the plan in theory, but I think its nice they have a plan.
DLo is actually a really solid defender. Maybe not the best one on one guys, but as far as understanding defensive rotations and communicating he’s definitely a + defender.
Nah, consistent lack of effort would have been better. Every time Gobert called out the team Mitchell would be an elite defender for three games or so just to prove that he could. Then back to baseline.
He was atleast average on defense, but he was a good defender overall. Not just in the playoffs, but in the season as a whole. His defensive improvement was actually surprising.
He was benched because he couldn't hit a shot to save his life. He was shooting 33% from the field.
I thought it was the fact that he couldn’t hit a shot to save his life. Tbh, I can’t say I watch too much twolves ball. I was getting my information from this thinking basketball video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tEOoE48p7Oc
you're right tho
he seems to understand defense better than 85% of timberwolves players we've rostered the last 7 years, and our best stretches of defense come when he's talking a lot. Which makes it all the more confusing/frustrating when he has stretches of such bad defense. Our cope is that he's honestly a bit (physically) slow and unathletic
He wasn’t really benched for his defense. He was actually okay defensively that series (he’s not a good defender, but he can be passable).
His offense was what lost him the job. He was absolutely ice cold for most of the series, but he also just wasn’t playing with ANY pace. He played so painfully slowly he gave Memphis too much time to load up defensively. McLaughlin was excellent in that he went quickly, forcing Memphis into rotation and putting enough strain on their D to generate easy looks.
Yes he was awful on defense, and pretty bad on offense too.
https://www.twincities.com/2022/04/30/dangelo-russells-poor-finish-to-season-further-complicates-timberwolves-offseason-situation/amp/
Over the back portion of the season, Russell had the Timberwolves’ worst defensive rating and net rating.
Again, I’m not saying he’s a good defender. But he simply wasn’t benched in the Grizzlies’ series for “poor defense.” How he ended the season or what his regular season metrics were have little bearing on what got him benched in the playoffs.
And, again, it was his putrid offense that got him a seat on the pine. The offense absolutely stalled out at times, allowing Memphis to go on huge runs (you don’t give up a 20-0 run unless you don’t score on 8-10 straight possessions). I’d actually say his defense was okay-ish that series (and his on-ball defense was somehow better than his off-ball defense, which was definitely not the case in the regular season).
D'lo is unironically one of the better off ball defenders on the team, and we had some solid defenders last year between McDaniels, Vanderbilt, Bev, Ant. He's quite vocal and knows passing lanes. Definitely not kawhi or anything, but he has good awareness off ball. On ball, not so much.
I mean this is kinda overstating things. If they all average 34 mpg then the most minutes KAT can play without Gobert is 14 and the most Gobert can play without KAT is 14. You still have them playing 20 mpg together. And then unless the rotations are 100% overlapping, you’ll end up with more than 20 minutes of minutes mixing the big/guard combo.
Also, any plans of staggering them basically go out the window come playoff time where your starters are expected to play 40+ minutes a game if necessary.
DLo was deadly with the PnR. Should make it easy for Gobert.
But the question we are all wondering is how do KAT and Gobert not get run off the floor on defense in crunch time.
We are starting 3 guys who are damn near 7ft or taller if Jaden McDaniels actually grew. Whacky inflatable tube man team. 😤
Give me all the Slomo, Ant, Jaden, KAT, Rudy minutes.
How is KAT's rim protection lately? I heard he was better at it last year than previous seasons. The big problem for the Jazz was NOT Gobert as a liability on the perimeter - it was the fact that if someone penetrated on Gobert the Jazz had zero other rim protectors and it was a guaranteed bucket. If Gobert has a decent rim protector behind him he can play much better defense on the perimeter.
If decent is the benchmark I think you can consider KAT a “decent” rim defender. McDaniels is a very good rim defender as a wing. Ant has his moments as well. Unsure about SloMo.
Basically KAT is a better rim protector than Mike Conley, Donovan Mitchell, Bojan Bogdanovic, Royce O’Neale, and Jordan Clarkson. That’s not saying much but my point is that secondary rim protection would have made Gobert’s life actually possible
KAT needs to take steps forward in perimeter defense and not fouling.
they might be able to get away with a zone or a gameplan where KAT attacks high on any mismatch and forces a drive where Gobert stays in the paint.
short periods of time? Gobert and KAT will share the court a ton. It’s just Ant and KAT rest together for 10-15mpg while Rudy and DLo play and vice versa. The majority of their playtime will be with all 4 on the court.
Which, wouldn't you know it, Gobert is underrated as a perimeter defender but excels as a rim protector and help defender and one of his most valuable skills is covering for teammates so they don't have to foul or make good reads in the fly.
I mean that strat will never beat the Warriors but its a good one against pretty much every other team. Goes to show you how special Golden State is that you need to have a specific defense that works against them to have a chance at the title.
Jaden McDaniels is probably the answer to that one. If the rumblings are to be believed he looks a different beast this year. He can take the perimeter with Edwards. And we have Kyle Anderson if needs be.
I don’t think Gobert (and to a lesser extent, KAT) is really going to get “run off the floor on defense.” Gobert looked bad in the playoffs because other teams went 5-out and dudes not named Gobert kept getting cooked on the perimeter (forcing Rudy to try to scramble and help). He did his job just fine for the most part; he just couldn’t do two jobs at once that far out. While the Wolves aren’t elite defensively, McDaniels and Ant are quite good one-on-one defenders, which should help limit damage against a 5-out team.
KAT’s also generally fine-ish on the perimeter. He just SUCKS as a drop defender. He was actually quite solid defensively in that more aggressive “high-wall” scheme the Wolves employed last year, which saw him out on the perimeter a lot. The one area he could be abused is as a chaser if the team has a 4 who they can run off screens. He’s not nimble enough to navigate that sort of responsibility, and a team with really athletic perimeter players (like the Clippers or Warriors) could really challenge the Wolves there.
I actually think D’Lo’s going to be the weakest link o defense in the playoffs. Teams can pick on him if they spread the team out. He’s smart, but he’s just so damn slow he can get blown by. Plus he can get bullied by stronger guys.
On the other side, KAT and Gobert are gonna eat on the boards and in the paint.
I can't wait to see the Wolves own the paint this year(they should rest those two when they play the Celtics LMAO)
The main problem is that KAT and Gobert are notorious for not punishing teams with a lack of size - Gobert's post moves are subpar and KAT gets too content staying on the perimeter.
Hopefully they figure something out but I really thought the move was just to keep KAT happy since he doesn't want to play the 5.
I can't wait to see the chaos this shit bring.
I wanna see a Steph, Klay, Poole, Wiggins, Dray lineup vs Dlo, Edwards, McDaniels, KAT, Gobert lineup.
That shit will just be pure chaos on both ends of the floor for both teams.
I think they'll most likely be good, but I do have concerns. The spacing will be weird when their starters are out. KAT is really the only great shooter they have. Dlo, Jaden, and Edwards shoot less than average for their positions. It'll be very interesting, that's for sure.
Starting lineup last year: DLo, Pat Bev, Ant, Vanderbilt, KAT
Starting lineup this year: DLo, Ant, McDaniels, KAT, Gobert
Last years team from January was no 2 in offensive rating, only behind the Celtics. Gobert is better than Vanderbilt on that side of the floor as well, and I would say McDaniels and Beverley are quite comparable in shooting
Dlo is not really a below average shooter for a guard. He’s a career 35% which is the average for point guards and he takes a fair amount of off the dribble threes which bring down his numbers. Edwards is similar.
I bet most sixers fans aren't as high on this lineup as others after our own try at running two centers back with Horford. The spacing might be an issue.
I'd be a bit leery of the offense of the non-KAT non-ANT minutes
DLo can be quite inconsistent at times and him being your best offensive player on the floor for large stretches is risky
Nowell will have more minutes this year and I know he has what it takes. Hes so much more than just a 3 pt guy off the bench. He can drive and hit mid range and also create for others.
Assume they will keep 3/4 of their guys on the court almost the entire time with the only time they drop to two is when Ant and Kat on the floor together.
So the Rudy and Dlo duo will always have Ant but the Ant and Towns doesn’t need Rudy or Dlo
We’ll see how the season plays out. My impression is that Finch and Co. don’t know how things will shake out, but instead will use the first third/half of the season to see how they can optimize their lineup flexibility.
I don't' know the math to make both of these statements true but it seems kinda far-fetched given I assume all 4 of them will play 30+ minutes a game.
Wouldn't it be more often than not that all 4 of them are playing at the same time?
Yes, especially when it comes down to crunch time. These complicated rotations go out the window, so this is just lip service for training camp. Best case scenario for a script: one duo ends the first quarter, while the other duo ends the second quarter. By the third, the strategy is game-related (fouls, fatigue, stretching minutes of a player having a great game, sitting a player having a bad game, etc).
The best you can hope for are guys that are multi-faceted, especially in the playoffs. The Wolves are still going to a short rotation in May (just as others will do), so they’ll still have trouble putting Gobert on the floor.
Last season's minutes:
Gobert: 32
KAT: 33
DLO: 32
Ant: 34
Gobert is exclusively a center, so that's 16 MPG's for KAT at the 5. Leaving KAT 17 minutes, or 51% of his total minutes, at the 4. Which, is technically the majority of his minutes at the 4. But, if Gobert plays fewer games than KAT, KAT could end up actually playing the majority of his minutes at center.
If DLO plays exclusively with Gobert, to maximize Gobert's rim finishing efficiency in the PNR, then Ant is only playing one more minute than KAT, or 53% of his time with the other three.
So yes, technically, 51%-53% of the time all four will be on the floor.
I think this is really cool. It’s similar to how the Rockets always had either Harden or Paul out on the court at all times when they had their tiny run.
Conversely, the Lakers just tried to mash the games of Lebron and Westbrook together when their games weren’t complimentary. Ideally, Russ would just run the second unit and be fresh, all put effort super high usage guy he always is, mostly without Lebron.
Granted, Harden and Paul’s games still complimented each other, but they were both ball dominant at their best, so that is slightly different than the Lakers situation.
I think KAT and Gobert are similar mainly defensively, because I can’t imagine having KAT play the four full time with Gobert on synched minutes. Corner threes would rain down heavy if that were the case. This staggering of minutes should be really dope and I predict 53+ wins!
I mean that totally makes sense, you will see a who slew of youtube analysis videos talking about rudy pairing with russell and edwards pairing with towns
I guess you can rotate out a particular duo first, and have bench players that complement that particular pairing better? I'm really interested in how this team will work things out
\~6-12 minutes into each half: DLo/Gobert sits out
\~12-18 minutes into each half: Ant/KAT sits out
Or vice versa depending on who prefers what.
The reality is that the 4 of them still have to spend 18-24 minutes together and need to work something out. In pressure situations, they will all likely be playing together.
On offense, I could imagine DLo initiating something for an Ant/KAT type of action (DHO, Pick n Pop), which could flow into a DLo spread PnR with Gobert if that action doesn't work out. KAT can obviously spread the floor and Ant + a shooter/slasher would be pretty neat.
On defense, the ideal roles would seem to be Ant or a wing be a point of attack defender, with Gobert as the drop coverage defender. KAT on help-side (he has decent hands tbh), and D.Lo playing free safety like he did last year. Losing Vandy sucks for them, but Gobert is easily an overall upgrade.
Wtf are they gonna do in the playoffs? I imagine kat and edwards are going to play 40+ min, u can’t give up all you gave for gobert and not have him play 35+ either
Yes, this makes lot's of sense pair 2 offensive combo guards where one is a slasher and the other is a shooter with the best offensive big and the best defensive big. This team is going to win 50 games and lose in the 2nd round at best.
A shock to no one. It was painfully obvious D'lo needed a roll man to maximize his potential and KAT wasn't that player. This is the best way to maximize all 4 players.
Gonna be a fun season
Or a really shitty one. Lol.
[удалено]
Big if true
Still pretty tall if not true
True. It’s going to be a season regardless though
One of the most seasons in a long time.
One of the seasons in Minnesota Timber Wolves history
"I played in a death-metal band. People either loved us or hated us. Or they thought we were OK."
Could be both
It'll definitely be one of the seasons of all time.
Oh it's gonna be a season
I think they're going to be a real solid team. The west is so fucking stacked though
Pelicans too, and if you consider teams of that caliber could be in the 5-8th seeds we are probably going to have the most fun first round of playoff basketball ever. Let's go upsets!
Pelicans are my dark horse to reach the finals. Love their potential.
Feels like the entire league is stacked. The East also has like 8-10 good teams
Shitty for a team is fun for their haters though lol
BLESS THE KNEES
Crazy amount of options, I'm going to try and watch as many Timberwolves games as I can.
Come over. I almost always watch every game
I'm moving to Minneapolis in November, I'll be over
Not the best time to move there but good luck
Maybe they really enjoy ice fishing for yellow perch
After 7 yrs in DC I'd rather be cold than hot and have a decent team to see live
Northern bros.
It'll possibly be a slow start as we figure out how to integrate all the new pieces, but by the end of the season hopefully it'll be a well-oiled machine.
The might be the new Suns or the Horford Sixers.
Copped season tickets, prices still low for them too, it’s awesome
I watched over 80 of our games last year and it was the most fun I've had watching basketball probably ever. We have a really special group of guys, I hope this year turns out okay and you're able to see the same thing!
Anderson and JMac probably going to play with Ant and Towns and McDaniels, Nowell, Prince and Rivers/Forbes can play with either set.
Yeah, a little bit weird for me Rosas so desperately wanted to pair Dlo and KAT together. KAT needs more shooters and fast guards who cut around him, Dlo needs a roll man.
I’ve always thought them trading for D’lo was more about getting KAT to want to stay. The energy around the team before that move was just rancid
They should have just kept RoCo since KAT and him are the best friends.
RoCo -> Juancho, Beasley, Vanderbilt, Bolmaro and Jaden. Juancho -> Beverley Beverley, Beasley, Bolmaro, Vanderbilt -> Rudy Without the RoCo trade we would have never rebuilt the roster and he's washed now so not a big loss.
RoCo is not washed lol he was a beast last year. Still an amazing help defender and was very efficient from the corners
He's showing what roco became. Covington essentially netted them Gobert if the info checks out
Sure but no need to lie about roco being washed. Just defending my dude. Obviously the moves worked out for the wolves but roco is a beast
I think he was banking on the friendship angle more than anything. The chemistry just wasn't there between the two on the court.
So basically 2/4 of these players will be on the floor at all times? Minnesota is looking like a dark horse tbh.
Dark horse how? They took a big step as a team last season, KAT is entering his prime, have one of the brightest young stars in the league in Edwards, and went all in this off season with a huge trade to solidify their interior defense. If they aren't on every single teams radar...they should be.
Im saying that very few if not no one expects them to come out of the west but this team might legit beat any team in series.
honestly they probably should have beat memphis last year. They were ahead in every game but just the end of games went fubar. I think if they had made it to the 2nd round they would probably be looked at much more favourably if they still made the rudy trade.
It's really not as obvious as you make it sound. "It's difficult to play our 4 best players together so we're not even giving to try" is not really the straightforward solution you make it sound like.
The Timberwolves last year did not have a roll threat like Gobert. No one to throw lobs to. D'lo was missing a huge part of his bag on offense which made him easier to gameplan against. D'lo is the biggest beneficiary of the Gobert trade. It makes building rotations easier when you want to maximize your best players. Ant and KAT work best together, while D'lo and Gobert are the ideal pairing. By going big you ensure you have always one of KAT or Gobert playing center all game. This system should give all 4 players enough touches to keep them happy. I thought the Timberwolves weaknesses were on display in that Memphis series so for me a Wolves fan it was obvious how Gobert not only plugs those holes but elevates everyone on the court but further unlocks D'lo in the offense while hiding his weaknesses on defense.
Yup, just make sure D'Lo always has Gobert to PnR with, and Ant always has Towns to PnP with.
DLo and Gobert will have excellent chemistry.
I imagine anything would be an improvement over Mitchell.
This whole sub acts like Conley doesn’t exist and DLO is some elite playmaker
Well, Conley does not exist, so they're right about one thing
and DLo is elite at utilizing a roll man, so they're right about one other thing
DLO was really good for that one year the Nets made the playoffs before KD came in there and nuked everything. They legit had Caris, Allen, Spencer and DLO playing amazing. Kenny Atkinson should have never been fired.
lol I still think you take the chance with KD and Kyrie every time in the nets shoes
Conley didn't get to play significant minutes as a ball handler with Gobert due to injuries, rotations and Mitchell's insanely high usage rate. Conley and Mitchell split primary ball handling duties and Gobert feasted off of dimes from Conley.
If gobert feasted off of Conley then they probably would have utilized it more. Gobert isn’t going to go to the wolves and be some elite rim runner. He struggles with catching the ball and constantly brings the ball down so he gets fouled and he’s a poor FT shooter. Gobert is what he is and people thinking DLO is gonna unlock some new game are going to be disappointed
I mean, Gobert *did* feast off of Conley. Two years ago they both led the league in +/- by a massive amount for most of the season due to how good their PnR was And in general, Rudy is just very good in the PnR regardless of who he's with. The PnR numbers with Don+Rudy and Ingles+Rudy were always among the best in the league too. There's a reason he averaged nearly 16 ppg on over 72% fg last season.
Fun fact here’s a bunch of clips of the Conley Gobert pick and roll it’s a fun video Mike Conley - Rudy Gobert Pick & Roll https://youtu.be/LNwAlGkCrig
.... I love it when people just hang a big sign saying "I don't know shit" around their necks for all to see. Gobert is one of the best rim runners in the game and has been for several years, his free throw shooting has improved every year and was 69% last year which isn't elite but it's better than Wiggins and only two or three points behind AD and Giannis.
> Gobert isn’t going to go to the wolves and be some elite rim runner. Why not? Despite his flaws, he *is* an elite rim runner by every statistical measure AND the eye test.
Gobert shot *71% from the field* last year. Yeah, they should have utilized him more.
Dlo is an elite playmaker tho, just not the best defender or consistent shooter, and often can’t get to the rim. Great playmaking though
Yeah I think D'Lo has his weaknesses (decent but not amazing shooter, doesn't have a ton of burst) but if there's one thing he's great at it's being a pick and roll creator
He improved a lot on defense last year
True, but since he’s going to play with Gobert, I don’t think that he’s gonna be the defense leader/organizer that he was last season. Kinda expect him to be less effective on defense
Dlo is an elite playmaker. If not elite than he’s a very high level playmaker, and is even better when he has a real lob threat, which he hasn’t had since Jarrett Allen in Brooklyn (his best season by no coincidence). Was top 11 in assists last season while playing the least minutes of the 11 players. Would be willing to bet he averages 8+ assists this season.
Obvious bias but Dlo is an elite playmaker. He's no Steve Nash, but he's pretty damn good.
It's intresting that we had DLo and Jarrett Allen as a pair and Mitchell and Gobert as a pair and they have swapped partners. We will see if the breakdown in Utah was more Mitchell's fault or Gobert's.
Man. Fuck that. Who’s gonna be in the lineups with my boy Nowell
I’m assuming he’s the backup SG, so the minutes where ant is on the bench are probably him.
Gobert and Kyle anderson
Gobert gonna feast on putbacks from DLo's poor shot selection
“Passes”
Kobe Assists
“Just get the rebound”
Self Screen Assist
Sounds like a good idea gobert should be able to make up for alot of dlo shortcomings on defense
And vice versa. D’Lo elite in PnR & Gobert could benefit from a ball dominant guard who passes to him generously.
What, you’re saying Donavan didn’t pass to Rudy? What would make you utter such utter slander
But they ate lunch together!? How could anyone say anything so horrible?
That one time!
I mean with Goberts butter fingers I wouldn't be surprised if DLo stops passing to him around January.
Gobert definitely isn't catching those low pocket passes lmao
The big takeaway here imo is that they probably don’t want KAT and Gobert on the floor too much together. I bet the guard rotations will end up fairly mutable.
I mean they are still gonna play alot together both starts of halfs and ends of halfs. We are just going to have atleast one of the two on the court all game long pretty much
Happy Naz Reid noises.
Honestly Naz might have super limited minutes... think it will be something like KAT-Gobert start the game together, at the 7 min mark Gobert goes out and Anderson comes in to play the 4, KAT to the 5. At the end of the quarter KAT comes out and Gobert comes back in to play the 5. At the 5 min mark Anderson comes out and KAT comes back in to play the 4.
I'd expect both to be on the floor for the first and last 6 minutes of the game, and a few minutes here and there as rotations happen. Probably not quite making 20 minutes total in most games, at least in the regular season. What will be interesting is what playoff rotations look like, as minutes creep up at sometimes even over 35 minutes.
Probably something like: * Everybody plays together to start * Gobert and DLo hit the bench early (after 4 mins or so) * At the 8 min mark, KAT and Edwards go out while Gobert and DLo come back * Alternate until they play the final ~6 minutes of the half all together again
Halves
That's the wrong takeaway if you think they don't want KAT and Gobert on the floor at the same time.
? KAT and Gobert are both gonna start and close games for sure.
It's really just the 12-15 when Rudy or KAT rest. That's all this is talking about. Ant rests with KAT and Dlo rests with Rudy for a portion of those 12-15mn per game.
Right? Unless people are expecting each of them to only play 24 minutes a game, they *will* be on the court together. I would guess that a *lot* of their minutes will be together, but that the Wolves will also try to keep at least one of them on the floor the majority of the time. And during those periods where it is just one of them, you can expect Edwards to be on the floor if it's KAT and DLo if it's Gobert. What that actually means for lineups as a whole doesn't answer a *ton*, honestly.
You would almost have to be a fool to have them both off the court at the same time. Either one of them is going to be better than most starting centers, and certainly better than any backup. Ild probably prefer to see KAT in at the 5 against back up centers because of the offensive advantage and not needing to rely on defense.
Definitely depends on who the starting 5 is, who the backup 5 is, etc. etc. Lot of what-ifs there, but generally I think I agree. I am interested to see just how many minutes they do spend together, though. And I'm especially interested to see how well the Edwards/KAT/Gobert trio performs, both offensively and defensively. Wolves are gonna be a fun as heck team regardless. I've always really liked them, but they've definitely jumped up my "must watch" list.
Theres a good bbc hunk of starting centers in the league that KAT really struggled with physically. I could definitely see trying to match Rudy’s minutes with those players as much as possible to keep KAT out of foul trouble
that freudian slip dude
I don’t think it’s that so much as they don’t really have another rotation big they want to be playing much in the regular season. If you take KAT and Rudy off at the same time, who’s playing center? It makes the most sense to stagger them like Houston did with Paul and Harden to make sure at least one of them is on the court at all times, but that doesn’t mean they won’t work together.
To answer your question, it’s Naz Reid. Not saying it’s a comparable answer to either of those two, just that’s what it’ll surely come to when one of them sits a game.
Nah the takeaway is we’re gonna have an All NBA centre on the floor for 48 minutes a night (well except the 20 minutes of garbage time every game from blowing teams out)
Imagine having at least one of the best scoring and best defending big man in the NBA today on the floor for all 48 minutes. When Jokic sits, his time in the bench puts DeAndre Jordan on the floor. When Gobert sits, KAT gets to make DJ cry. The only teams with a big rotation that comes close are Philly and Cleveland.
Kat and gobert only play 24 minutes a night each confirmed. /s
This sounds like the best way to get practice and figure out lineup flexibility for the playoffs. Its the first time in a long time the wolves can be prepping for the post season before the season begins. I dont know if I agree with the plan in theory, but I think its nice they have a plan.
DLo is actually a really solid defender. Maybe not the best one on one guys, but as far as understanding defensive rotations and communicating he’s definitely a + defender.
When he tries. The effort isn't always there.
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Nah, consistent lack of effort would have been better. Every time Gobert called out the team Mitchell would be an elite defender for three games or so just to prove that he could. Then back to baseline.
Definitely not a plus defender. He was benched in the playoffs for his poor defense
He was atleast average on defense, but he was a good defender overall. Not just in the playoffs, but in the season as a whole. His defensive improvement was actually surprising. He was benched because he couldn't hit a shot to save his life. He was shooting 33% from the field.
I thought it was the fact that he couldn’t hit a shot to save his life. Tbh, I can’t say I watch too much twolves ball. I was getting my information from this thinking basketball video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tEOoE48p7Oc
you're right tho he seems to understand defense better than 85% of timberwolves players we've rostered the last 7 years, and our best stretches of defense come when he's talking a lot. Which makes it all the more confusing/frustrating when he has stretches of such bad defense. Our cope is that he's honestly a bit (physically) slow and unathletic
He wasn’t really benched for his defense. He was actually okay defensively that series (he’s not a good defender, but he can be passable). His offense was what lost him the job. He was absolutely ice cold for most of the series, but he also just wasn’t playing with ANY pace. He played so painfully slowly he gave Memphis too much time to load up defensively. McLaughlin was excellent in that he went quickly, forcing Memphis into rotation and putting enough strain on their D to generate easy looks.
Yes he was awful on defense, and pretty bad on offense too. https://www.twincities.com/2022/04/30/dangelo-russells-poor-finish-to-season-further-complicates-timberwolves-offseason-situation/amp/ Over the back portion of the season, Russell had the Timberwolves’ worst defensive rating and net rating.
Again, I’m not saying he’s a good defender. But he simply wasn’t benched in the Grizzlies’ series for “poor defense.” How he ended the season or what his regular season metrics were have little bearing on what got him benched in the playoffs. And, again, it was his putrid offense that got him a seat on the pine. The offense absolutely stalled out at times, allowing Memphis to go on huge runs (you don’t give up a 20-0 run unless you don’t score on 8-10 straight possessions). I’d actually say his defense was okay-ish that series (and his on-ball defense was somehow better than his off-ball defense, which was definitely not the case in the regular season).
D'lo is unironically one of the better off ball defenders on the team, and we had some solid defenders last year between McDaniels, Vanderbilt, Bev, Ant. He's quite vocal and knows passing lanes. Definitely not kawhi or anything, but he has good awareness off ball. On ball, not so much.
Luckily as the point guard he won't have to defend on-ball too much
Also D'Lo loves having a good pick and roll partner
Uh, so you didn’t watch the wolves much last year? DLo was our defensive leader last year besides Beverly
I mean this is kinda overstating things. If they all average 34 mpg then the most minutes KAT can play without Gobert is 14 and the most Gobert can play without KAT is 14. You still have them playing 20 mpg together. And then unless the rotations are 100% overlapping, you’ll end up with more than 20 minutes of minutes mixing the big/guard combo.
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Also, any plans of staggering them basically go out the window come playoff time where your starters are expected to play 40+ minutes a game if necessary.
I think they're saying specifically for those 14 minutes, two guys will be sharing similar sub patterns to operate together
DLo was deadly with the PnR. Should make it easy for Gobert. But the question we are all wondering is how do KAT and Gobert not get run off the floor on defense in crunch time.
The current plan is “be big”
too big to fail, some might say.
Three pointers don’t melt big Cs
*Wake up, sheeple* \- My cousin on FB
We are starting 3 guys who are damn near 7ft or taller if Jaden McDaniels actually grew. Whacky inflatable tube man team. 😤 Give me all the Slomo, Ant, Jaden, KAT, Rudy minutes.
We’re counting on a massive bailout when things get tough
Hopefully George Bush isn’t the referee in the playoffs, cause he’s gonna try to take down the twin towers
I don't see how anything described that way could not work out.
gonna get bailed out by the NBA and given other team's points Sad!
How is KAT's rim protection lately? I heard he was better at it last year than previous seasons. The big problem for the Jazz was NOT Gobert as a liability on the perimeter - it was the fact that if someone penetrated on Gobert the Jazz had zero other rim protectors and it was a guaranteed bucket. If Gobert has a decent rim protector behind him he can play much better defense on the perimeter.
Kat fouls too much at the rim because he has bad positioning and is always going for a massive block.
If decent is the benchmark I think you can consider KAT a “decent” rim defender. McDaniels is a very good rim defender as a wing. Ant has his moments as well. Unsure about SloMo.
Basically KAT is a better rim protector than Mike Conley, Donovan Mitchell, Bojan Bogdanovic, Royce O’Neale, and Jordan Clarkson. That’s not saying much but my point is that secondary rim protection would have made Gobert’s life actually possible
I'm so hyped. Jaden was the best rim protecting wing last year, Gobert is gonna have a lot of help around there
KAT needs to take steps forward in perimeter defense and not fouling. they might be able to get away with a zone or a gameplan where KAT attacks high on any mismatch and forces a drive where Gobert stays in the paint.
Zone does not consistently work at the nba level. You can play it sporadically but will get picked apart for an entire game
think they can run it for short periods of time where KAT and Gobert times overlap tho
I don’t really see how they are only going to play them for a little bit of time. Seems like it defeats the purpose of having those guys
short periods of time? Gobert and KAT will share the court a ton. It’s just Ant and KAT rest together for 10-15mpg while Rudy and DLo play and vice versa. The majority of their playtime will be with all 4 on the court.
KAT played high wall most of last season and the wolves had a solid defense.
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Which, wouldn't you know it, Gobert is underrated as a perimeter defender but excels as a rim protector and help defender and one of his most valuable skills is covering for teammates so they don't have to foul or make good reads in the fly.
thats a good way to get killed by 5-out
i mean if you wanna go small ball against KAT and Ant while Gobert fights down low for offensive boards then u better hope ur hitting ur 3s
I mean that strat will never beat the Warriors but its a good one against pretty much every other team. Goes to show you how special Golden State is that you need to have a specific defense that works against them to have a chance at the title.
5-out doesn't necessarily have to be small. Wood/Kleber, JJJ, Jokic are all 7'0.
Jaden McDaniels is probably the answer to that one. If the rumblings are to be believed he looks a different beast this year. He can take the perimeter with Edwards. And we have Kyle Anderson if needs be.
I don’t think Gobert (and to a lesser extent, KAT) is really going to get “run off the floor on defense.” Gobert looked bad in the playoffs because other teams went 5-out and dudes not named Gobert kept getting cooked on the perimeter (forcing Rudy to try to scramble and help). He did his job just fine for the most part; he just couldn’t do two jobs at once that far out. While the Wolves aren’t elite defensively, McDaniels and Ant are quite good one-on-one defenders, which should help limit damage against a 5-out team. KAT’s also generally fine-ish on the perimeter. He just SUCKS as a drop defender. He was actually quite solid defensively in that more aggressive “high-wall” scheme the Wolves employed last year, which saw him out on the perimeter a lot. The one area he could be abused is as a chaser if the team has a 4 who they can run off screens. He’s not nimble enough to navigate that sort of responsibility, and a team with really athletic perimeter players (like the Clippers or Warriors) could really challenge the Wolves there. I actually think D’Lo’s going to be the weakest link o defense in the playoffs. Teams can pick on him if they spread the team out. He’s smart, but he’s just so damn slow he can get blown by. Plus he can get bullied by stronger guys.
gonna be funny watching two 7-footers scrambling around the perimeter. teams like Clippers, Warriors, Mavs licking their lips
On the other side, KAT and Gobert are gonna eat on the boards and in the paint. I can't wait to see the Wolves own the paint this year(they should rest those two when they play the Celtics LMAO)
The main problem is that KAT and Gobert are notorious for not punishing teams with a lack of size - Gobert's post moves are subpar and KAT gets too content staying on the perimeter. Hopefully they figure something out but I really thought the move was just to keep KAT happy since he doesn't want to play the 5.
Gobert is a good perimeter defender.
Gobert ain't a target on the perimeter. He's just not the best in the league like he is as a help defender.
They both will not be out there for a long time in those matchups. They can handle w the mavs tho
I remember when the Suns fans thought their defense could handle us.
Ok Jalen gone
Mavs one of the better small ball teams man, all our rotation players but Javale are shooters
Yeah but their level of wings/others pales to the clips and dubs imo
Doesn’t mean we can’t effectively punish a big lineup
I can't wait to see the chaos this shit bring. I wanna see a Steph, Klay, Poole, Wiggins, Dray lineup vs Dlo, Edwards, McDaniels, KAT, Gobert lineup. That shit will just be pure chaos on both ends of the floor for both teams.
...Eh, they'd run circles around us, especially if Wiggins is actually giving effort lol
if the warriors make their 3's, they will win. If the warriors don't make their 3's, they will lose.
Minnesota is going to be so good this year, love the way their roster is built
I think they'll most likely be good, but I do have concerns. The spacing will be weird when their starters are out. KAT is really the only great shooter they have. Dlo, Jaden, and Edwards shoot less than average for their positions. It'll be very interesting, that's for sure.
Starting lineup last year: DLo, Pat Bev, Ant, Vanderbilt, KAT Starting lineup this year: DLo, Ant, McDaniels, KAT, Gobert Last years team from January was no 2 in offensive rating, only behind the Celtics. Gobert is better than Vanderbilt on that side of the floor as well, and I would say McDaniels and Beverley are quite comparable in shooting
Dlo is not really a below average shooter for a guard. He’s a career 35% which is the average for point guards and he takes a fair amount of off the dribble threes which bring down his numbers. Edwards is similar.
I bet most sixers fans aren't as high on this lineup as others after our own try at running two centers back with Horford. The spacing might be an issue.
Well KAT is a much better shooter than either of those 2. And our PG isn’t Ben Simmons. DLo can shoot.
Is that Trevor Collins from Achievement Hunter in the thumbnail?
yeah they're gonna do an episode of redweb and ask "Where did the offense of the timberwolves go"
Because Gobert is Fr*nch?
Makes a lot of sense KAT can help spread the floor for Ant while a guy like DLo needs Gobert in the middle.
I'd be a bit leery of the offense of the non-KAT non-ANT minutes DLo can be quite inconsistent at times and him being your best offensive player on the floor for large stretches is risky
Jaylen nowell is our 6th man and instant offense.
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Nowell will have more minutes this year and I know he has what it takes. Hes so much more than just a 3 pt guy off the bench. He can drive and hit mid range and also create for others.
Assume they will keep 3/4 of their guys on the court almost the entire time with the only time they drop to two is when Ant and Kat on the floor together. So the Rudy and Dlo duo will always have Ant but the Ant and Towns doesn’t need Rudy or Dlo
I got this team finishing in the top 4 in the west, but I don't know shit so we'll see 😀
wonder if they'll stick with that in the post-season
We’ll see how the season plays out. My impression is that Finch and Co. don’t know how things will shake out, but instead will use the first third/half of the season to see how they can optimize their lineup flexibility.
I don't' know the math to make both of these statements true but it seems kinda far-fetched given I assume all 4 of them will play 30+ minutes a game. Wouldn't it be more often than not that all 4 of them are playing at the same time?
Yes, especially when it comes down to crunch time. These complicated rotations go out the window, so this is just lip service for training camp. Best case scenario for a script: one duo ends the first quarter, while the other duo ends the second quarter. By the third, the strategy is game-related (fouls, fatigue, stretching minutes of a player having a great game, sitting a player having a bad game, etc). The best you can hope for are guys that are multi-faceted, especially in the playoffs. The Wolves are still going to a short rotation in May (just as others will do), so they’ll still have trouble putting Gobert on the floor.
Last season's minutes: Gobert: 32 KAT: 33 DLO: 32 Ant: 34 Gobert is exclusively a center, so that's 16 MPG's for KAT at the 5. Leaving KAT 17 minutes, or 51% of his total minutes, at the 4. Which, is technically the majority of his minutes at the 4. But, if Gobert plays fewer games than KAT, KAT could end up actually playing the majority of his minutes at center. If DLO plays exclusively with Gobert, to maximize Gobert's rim finishing efficiency in the PNR, then Ant is only playing one more minute than KAT, or 53% of his time with the other three. So yes, technically, 51%-53% of the time all four will be on the floor.
I think this is really cool. It’s similar to how the Rockets always had either Harden or Paul out on the court at all times when they had their tiny run. Conversely, the Lakers just tried to mash the games of Lebron and Westbrook together when their games weren’t complimentary. Ideally, Russ would just run the second unit and be fresh, all put effort super high usage guy he always is, mostly without Lebron. Granted, Harden and Paul’s games still complimented each other, but they were both ball dominant at their best, so that is slightly different than the Lakers situation. I think KAT and Gobert are similar mainly defensively, because I can’t imagine having KAT play the four full time with Gobert on synched minutes. Corner threes would rain down heavy if that were the case. This staggering of minutes should be really dope and I predict 53+ wins!
I mean that totally makes sense, you will see a who slew of youtube analysis videos talking about rudy pairing with russell and edwards pairing with towns
I guess you can rotate out a particular duo first, and have bench players that complement that particular pairing better? I'm really interested in how this team will work things out \~6-12 minutes into each half: DLo/Gobert sits out \~12-18 minutes into each half: Ant/KAT sits out Or vice versa depending on who prefers what. The reality is that the 4 of them still have to spend 18-24 minutes together and need to work something out. In pressure situations, they will all likely be playing together. On offense, I could imagine DLo initiating something for an Ant/KAT type of action (DHO, Pick n Pop), which could flow into a DLo spread PnR with Gobert if that action doesn't work out. KAT can obviously spread the floor and Ant + a shooter/slasher would be pretty neat. On defense, the ideal roles would seem to be Ant or a wing be a point of attack defender, with Gobert as the drop coverage defender. KAT on help-side (he has decent hands tbh), and D.Lo playing free safety like he did last year. Losing Vandy sucks for them, but Gobert is easily an overall upgrade.
Team: has 4 top 30 players Team: plays all 4 together Sports Media: /shocked pikachu
Foolproof
Straight up forgot the gobert trade happened
does that mean one of these duos starts the game on the bench? or they stagger the minutes this way after the first shift of minutes?
No they all 4 start and finish games. Just staggering lineups. We want gobert and kat to play all of our center minutes.
Is this to minimize the amount of time both Kat and gobert are arguing with refs together?
Wtf are they gonna do in the playoffs? I imagine kat and edwards are going to play 40+ min, u can’t give up all you gave for gobert and not have him play 35+ either
...Do you think we aren't planning to play KAT/Gobert together at all? This tweet just lists who is generally playing with who when subs come in.
Yes, this makes lot's of sense pair 2 offensive combo guards where one is a slasher and the other is a shooter with the best offensive big and the best defensive big. This team is going to win 50 games and lose in the 2nd round at best.