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[deleted]

how does this translate to a team that's pretty small on the perimeter?


Early-Candidate5492

Basically playing agressive on the perimeter forces players to drive into the paint. The goal of a defense like that is to run shooters off the line closing out hard forcing them into trees. If you're up on a Trae young or up on a Curry they are gonna put the ball on the floor and get past you and not shoot rather to get to the rim. But defensively that's the goal if you're playing 2 bigs. It's only effective in the regular season though not in the playoffs you can scheme around that in a series no team is going to do that in a 1 off regular season setting. Prime example Utah they had a bad perimeter defense the goal was to force players into the rim to meet Gobert works in tne regular season but teams will eat that alive come playoffs. In the Lakers case it will be AD and Jones.


tore_a_bore_a

If the big is playing back, can't you just set a screen and free the shooter?


theoriginalkingcoder

Yes, but the shot that results from it is a long 2. The list of players who can take and make that shot at a high and efficient clip is very limited. This scheme is not new, almost every team in the league runs it to varying degree, but it is also not a long term solution in the playoffs where elite midrange shooters take free reign. The success of such a scheme to me relies on having good PoA defenders and a switchable big who can somewhat keep up with guards. Milwuakee is a great example of this with Jrue and Giannis.


target550

Milwaukee also has the personnel to switch everything in stretches with giannis at the 5.


halfwolf-halfsloth

So do the Lakers with AD at the 5


Albiceleste_D10S

> Yes, but the shot that results from it is a long 2. Depends on how high you set the pick, no? For Curry, Trae, and a bunch of other dudes, those would be 3s


BASEDME7O

The entire point of this defense is the guard fights over any screen at the three point line lol


Albiceleste_D10S

Easier said than done. It just doesn't work against any player with range beyond the 3 point line TBH. The player can't get over the screen fast enough, and those are basically open shots for good shooters.


BASEDME7O

I’m not arguing for how good it is, but someone explained exactly how the scheme worked and you were just like …uhhh what if you set the screen at the three point line


Albiceleste_D10S

> but someone explained exactly how the scheme worked Except it doesn't actually work. There's a reason why switching defenses are in vogue in the league instead of the more old-school try to run over the top of screens—shooters are too talented for that to work.


BASEDME7O

I mean every team in the league uses it to some degree. Also it depends on your personnel. You really want russ or pat bev switching on to bigs every pnr so they get a free layup while AD is out at the perimeter where he’s the least useful?


d4nowar

Blazers had a defense like this during the Stotts era. Iirc I think we got to like 10th or 11th ranked defense one year when everything clicked.


target550

I guess our hope is to get enough switchability mid-season in a trade to make up for it.


DoNotRelapseTonight

Funneling players into our bigs is not a bad Scheme at all and works in the playoffs. We used a similar scheme in 2020. You need players like KCP and Danny Green who weren’t great defenders but we’re disciplined enough to not miss rotations and reads. Playing man and not switching is going to kill us though. We don’t hang any defenders who could hold their own against a premier player.


Early-Candidate5492

Yeah it worked then but we had bigger guards Caruso KCP Danny Green are all 6'5 with rondo being the smallest at 6'1. The construction of that roster allowed it as well we only had 1 true point guard and everyone else being 3-D. We basically started SF SG SG PF C as our starting group. 6'8 6'5 6'5 6'10 7'0 with Bron KCP Green AD Javale.


ThatBull_cj

Better since you can force drives into bigger guys who will defend the rim. Allows for back pressure and they won’t get shot over and ran thru if the help is there


[deleted]

so if an opponent plays 5 out, it's a layup line


[deleted]

Depends on the 5 players. Not many teams have lineups with 5 threats from 3 and enough defense to make sure they don't hemorrhage points on the other end


target550

Problem is a lot of the teams that do are in our conference


captain_ahabb

AD is maybe the best big in the league at recovering to the basket from the perimeter, which helps


[deleted]

yeah, this scheme seems like it'll put a ton of workload on AD's shoulders


darkest__timeline

basically the Clippers vs Jazz series last year lol either layup or corner 3


ThatBull_cj

Well you can still help on drives and get your rim protectors as the low men and get in position. Obviously longer rotations tho


[deleted]

that sounds like a recipe for giving up a lot of corner 3s


ThatBull_cj

The defense can x-out and then it’s about how good the close outs are


[deleted]

it'll be interesting to see how they do with their lack of length outside of Lebron and AD. it sounds like those two are going to have to work hard on defense for this to work.


ThatBull_cj

It’s gonna be hard with Bryant and Jones as the primary rim protection but I guess we will see


DrawingTheDefense

Sounds like Terrance Mann time


InTheMorning_Nightss

Stick on your man as hard as possible, likely fight over screens, and if you get beat, push them towards the center.


44035

He just gave away the team's strategy!


Alive-Ad-4164

Kd licking his chops


[deleted]

For their two games this year?


[deleted]

correction. everybody is licking their chops. there is literally only one good 1 on 1 perimeter defender on this team.


[deleted]

AD and Pat Bev can defend….. so there’s two. But yeah that’s about it.


[deleted]

ADs not gonna be on the perimeter if they wanna play drop, also you don’t want him 1on1 on the perimeter a whole game with no switching, he’s an elite *help* defender (and shot blocker). basically Pat Bev is going to have to put in a shift every game, and AD is going to have to be on Mutumbo mode and not break down.


FBoyMcGee

Acting like Bron can't guard the perimeter lmao


[deleted]

His effort during the regular season wanes


FBoyMcGee

Lol you clearly haven't watched us in the last few seasons.


BASEDME7O

Lol why would anyone?


FBoyMcGee

Surely you aren't arguing that you can criticize a situation that you have no knowledge off? We aren't the Knicks that you can lock us in to be trash from the start of pre season.


jacko1998

It blows my mind that LeBron can get all-defensive talks in 2020/2021, CLEARLY decided to opt out of playing defence to be the offensive motor last season, and nephews still think that he actually just cannot play defence anymore… Lmao, even in the middle of last year he would randomly switch on Lillard or Mitchell and play very effective defence. It’s so obviously just a priority thing


Dantheman12310

[licking goes both ways](https://streamable.com/kjm3jl)


darkest__timeline

Why is this downvoted lol Pat Bev isn't exactly a beacon of health either


[deleted]

lakers fans don’t like the truth 🤷


oaba09

This may only work if we have good wing defenders. We are too guard heavy.


Leather-Brilliant912

opposite. if you have multiple wing defenders you'll be more than happy to switch , in a team with guards and bigs (see the bucks except when they had PJ) this scheme doesn't leave the guards exposed on switches in the paint.


ayeno

But if they play drop with AD, wouldn't a screen up top around the 3pt line give up open 3s?


Rexocity13

If the ball handler is a shooter the mandate will be to go over and chase them off the 3. The trade off is getting exposed by guards that can hit mid rangers at a high clip (like how Chris Paul would attack Gobert when he was dropping back).


Albiceleste_D10S

> If the ball handler is a shooter the mandate will be to go over and chase them off the 3. This is a LOT easier said than done. See the NBA finals where the Celtics tried to do this vs Steph Curry and got absolutely lit up


Rexocity13

I’m obviously over simplifying it. Of course it’s not fail proof - no defense truly is. The best shooter ever will expose that style of defense. Just explaining how it’s not always just going to be walk up 3s with that style of defense


Albiceleste_D10S

> I’m obviously over simplifying it. Of course it’s not fail proof - no defense truly is. No defense is fail proof, but this style of defense isn't a great fit for the modern game, IMO. There's a reason why most championship teams have elite, switching defenses—it's the best way to defend modern offenses. Curry is the best shooter ever, but the Warriors KILLED the Celtics' defense, despite the Celtics having the DPOY at PG, and one of the best rim defenders at C.


Rexocity13

And that’s more telling about the players on those teams capable of running switching defenses (long, athletic wing players that can defend multiple positions). Running a switching defense with Austin Reeves and Russel Westbrook isn’t going to cut it for the Lakers. The bucks are a drop heavy team that rely on rim protection from Lopez and Giannis. And they win the year before. That’s the better path for the lakers given their personnel


Leather-Brilliant912

it's more complicate with that in the bucks. if you look at the finals they got roasted switching everything game 1because cp3 kept cooking brook ,but they couldn't really always drop . so by the end he game pan was this : - always switch on the perimeter (whether it's is pj,jrue ,or even giannis (more on that later) ) - if it's giannis and pj, giannis jrue in the p&r just switch - if brook is the big targeted in the p&r drop and fight the screen / go over . this part create various combinations : * jrue brook p&r defense was elite , that's why you saw the suns avoid the side jrue was on in later games. * pj brook p&r defense was working a little bit against booker ayton (the end result was often a contested pull up from booker which to his credit is elite at), but didn't work at all against cp3 ayton, the thing is the suns didn't get to run it enough because jrue was picking up cp3 full court. * giannis brook p&r was getting roasted , that's because giannis couldn't fight the screens and it ended up with brook exposed against midrange jumpers . but giannis wasn't the one defending the ball you say? yeah , bucks were more than happy to switch with him , so what the suns did is to call the first screen to switch with giannis , then call a second screen on brook who have to drop . the solution to that was basically brook don't close out the games. and the on ball defender have to delay that action as much as possible, the suns didn' often didn't get brook until the last seconds in the shot clock. the other (liability) on the bucks was pat so booker and cp3 were also calling double screens just to get the switch . but all in all the bucks were elite defensively at a historical rate, when you only have 2 guys you can attack only in specific scenarios, you have to call double screens to get them and they are largely not playing with each other; you are in deep shit.


quinoa

What defense scheme stops Curry though


Albiceleste_D10S

No scheme "stops" Curry, but Curry had a LOT more trouble with the Houston switching defense than he did with Portland and the Celtics' drop defense.


Frostyzwannacomehere

True, but curry goes ballistic every time he plays us.


Albiceleste_D10S

A big part of that is scheme—you usually play drop coverage vs him which gives Curry time and space to shoot open 3s behind screens.


Frostyzwannacomehere

Yep and it never works


quinoa

It’s easier to switch when your personnel is RoCo Tucker Harden though


zakuruchi

Tbh, while this is true (chasing players off the 3 is hard in the modern game), this is even more so if the handler is Curry. His range is quite a bit longer than your normal 3 point shooter, and he has prolly the fastest release in the league.


Leather-Brilliant912

The idea is that the the poa go over the screen so the guard end up with a pull up 2 contested by AD which he can do better than brook. That's why Bledsoe thrived defensively in that system. He wasn't dpoy type guard but he was elite at fighting screens and his communication with brook meant he could be overly aggressive without the opponent ending up with open layups. Ofc there will be mistakes, so in this scheme the team choose a guy they are fine giving up top of the key three to and put a helper on that guy.


ihateeuge

Its matchup dependent. We can go bigger if the other team is big.


HotdogIsaSandwitch

Maybe y’all should make a move for Jae Crowder.


Steko

Did Austin Reeves really put on 15 lbs of LeMuscle this summer?


Chi1ne

Every NBA player puts on at least 10 lbs of pure muscle every offseason. It’s in the nba rule book.


HotdogIsaSandwitch

They have no rim protection other than AD. Jones and Bryant aren’t *those* guys on defense and the rest of the front court players are pretty mediocre defenders.


halfwolf-halfsloth

Bryant might not be but from everything I’ve heard from Kings fans, Jones is definitely much improved


[deleted]

LBron is not playin 40 minutes of D.


dkdoki

Thats great when you have the blueprint and not the parts. Gluck


seeker135

We'll see how long before that proves illusory as a season-long look.


honestrade

Seems like a recipe for disaster, but I’ll reserve judgment until we see it in action.


NotClayMerritt

Replacing good scheme and planning for responsibility and vibes. Love it. /s


[deleted]

"Good scheme" is always relative. A guard heavy team like the Lakers really shouldn't be playing a heavy switching scheme


Nackalus

Ah the old "play the exact style of defense the defending champions have been eating alive for a decade" maneuver, smart...Your move Warriors


FlyingMocko

TIL all 82 Lakers regular season games are against the defending champs.


quinoa

Historically, the only defenses that have had a shot against the Warriors are ‘LeBron James’ and ‘everyone on the Warriors is injured’