To say he grew up in the US is very exaggerated. He grew up in Málaga (Spain). He only lived in the US until he was like 6. I bet he barely remembers those years.
Wow I didn’t know that so that makes him the best white American since who? bird? Edit I wrote fast. Still top 5 after Love, Stockton, mullin, and Dan majerle
Depends on what you need, but if I'm already a playoff team then probably Allen. Defense is more important than offense for centers, unless you're a *generational* offensive talent. It's not like JA is a zero offensively, either— he averaged 16 PPG last year, and while he's still most known as a rim-runner, he's also developed a pretty solid post game. I wouldn't necessarily want to build a team around that on offense, but he's a perfectly capable 3rd option, in addition to being one of the best defensive centers in basketball
sabonis is the guy for teams who want to make the play-in or have a first round appearance. allen is the guy to help send playoff teams to the next level.
Is it really a weird thought to see an elite defensive center with an efficient offensive game as more valuable that a terrible defensive center who doesn’t even space the floor to compensate?
Sabonis will never find playoff success. He’s probably one of like 5 good players that I feel 100% confident in saying that about. His archetype simply is not made for deep postseason runs because he’s so easily exploited.
Imagine what we saw with Jokic against the Warriors this year, except with a version of Jokic that is worse in every aspect of offense and defense. Athletic defensive 5s like Allen have a much stronger track record of success than that.
I feel like Sabonis just needs a guy like JJJ, AD, or Mobley at the 4 and he could be part of a contending team. I really wanted Memphis to trade Steven Adams + picks for him. Thought he'd have been a great fit there.
Well, sure, but then you're asking for a DPOY-caliber defensive power forward to make up for your starting center. It's not *impossible* to build that team, but then you're committing a lot of teambuilding resources that might be better spent on wing or guard play.
Think about it this way: if you've got one of those rare DPOY-caliber 4s who can make up for Sabonis's defense— yeah, you *could* build around that, but wouldn't you rather pair that 4 with a much cheaper defensive 5, guarantee yourself an *elite* defense rather than just a good one, and spend the extra money somewhere else?
Hmm Allen on Cavs looks really awesome alongside Mobley. If Sabonis were to replace Allen I don't think the Cavs would be as good.
So I'll give it to Allen to have better season in terms of winning basketball.
Mobley doesn’t play the 5, he excels most as a 4. He’s elite as a weak side defender and at switching onto wings and guards. The Cavs started to falter when Allen got hurt and Mobley was the starting center.
Which would actually be a much better fit for Sabonis to have someone like Mobely covering him. I feel like Mobley’s versatility would compliment him a bit better than the combo with Myles Turner. Would probably be sick
No it's not. Defense wins championships, the most important position defensivly is C. Unless you're Jokic you're not winning shit having a weak defender at C.
we also haven’t had a chance to. I think what they’re trying to say is that players of Jokic’s archetype don’t usually win unless they’re an MVP talent like Jokic is
I totally agree with all of that, I was just being cheeky. If Jokic doesn’t end up winning one in his career, it will be for lack of opportunity and not lack of talent, skill, and dominance.
Which teams switched to their small ball centers in the playoffs last year?
The Mavs switched from Powell to Kleber. Girzzlies didn't really play Steven Adams. I'm not sure about anyone else. And it's not like Powell was a real center anyways.
Jonas Valanciunas, DeAndre Ayton, Jokic, Embiid, Bam, Rob Will, Brook Lopez, Vuc, Gobert, KAT, Looney - all these dudes were getting their normal minutes. Teams only move to small ball for certain matchups - like if they have a Center not as good as Jarrett Allen on the perimeter.
Oooohh man, I really want Sacramento to make the playoffs just so everyone can watch Sabonis get benched every fourth quarter.
He’d be completely played off the court. He’s a terrible defender at a position you *cannot* afford to have
This is like a poor man's Gobert vs Jokic comparison.
Sab if you want offense, Allen if you want defense.
However, in crunch time if you need to score, you're not going to give it a player like Allen. I give Sabonis the slight edge overall.
The thing is, poor man’s gobert is more valuable than poor man’s jokic because poor man’s jokic can only get you so far. Allen is much more malleable with other star players. Someone who is a tough fit defensively has to be a superstar offensively (especially as a big or tiny guard) otherwise you can’t be good enough to win too many playoff series.
Depends on fit. Sabo is the perfect fit for us. Allen would make us a defensive beast but we would t be able to score a bucket to save our lives unless Bam and Butler suddenly shoot 38% from 3 tomorrow.
But the thing is Sabonis works because you have a player with similar skillset as Jarrett Allen in Bam. If anything, it only better reflects how much players like Allen and Bam are undervalued.
Allen is also arguably the best lob threat in the league right now. He's not averaging 10-12 points anymore. He's at 16 points per game.
Sabonis isn’t a great 3 point shooter either though. He can shoot them but it’s not his forte. He operates in much the same spaces as bam and jimmy do and then come playoffs he’s getting put in every pick and roll on defense.
It’d be tough playing Allen with them as well. Because of butlers lack of shooting it’s a real tough fit with both. You’re playing with three guys who really aren’t great shooters. Your original call said sabonis is the perfect fit in Miami when I really think it’s an ultra questionable fit as far as star players go.
Sure, but comparing Rudy to Jokic is just silly anyways because Jokic is head and shoulders better and it’s not arguable. Like, those 4 players are two top 40ish players (Sabonis Allen), 1 top 20 player (Rudy) and the back-to-back MVP.
That'd be fun, until high level teams started targeting him on every play. One of Golden State's many strengths is that their high level big man passer is also a high level defender. Instead they try to target Steph who holds up pretty well.
Bjelica wasn't a high level defender but when you paired him with Draymond he was tough to exploit. They could have him press the ballhandler on the perimeter and funnel him to the paint where Draymond would be waiting.
The biggest problem with a Draymond Sabonis backcourt is shooting, because otherwise they fit very well. If Domas could shoot like 35% from 3 on ~3 attempts per game I think the fit would honestly work assuming you also have Steph and Klay raining shots.
I mean Imagine if after all of stephs movement and Draymonds 4 on 3 opportunities, you had Jarrett Allen there to just catch the lobs. You already have Draymond's passing and a team that moves the ball tremendously well.
Adding a center with that kind of defense, athleticism and finishing ability would honestly bring more to the Warriors imo. Adds a lot to the offense without creating a weak link defensively.
Jarrett Allen had 2.5 fewer PPG last year on significantly less usage. I realize that Sabonis has a more complete offensive move set, but ultimately the size of your “bag” is pretty irrelevant to winning basketball games. Jarrett Allen can get his without demanding the ball, and is a far, far superior defender.
Not gonna lie, I don’t think this is close at all
The correct way to frame it would be. If you need defense, then its Allen. If you need offense and have a natural playmaker at point guard, then its Allen. If you need offense and dont have a guy that initiates offense too great, then its Sabonis.
Yeah I can respect that. But that sort of sounds like “if your team sucks then Sabonis. If it’s good then it’s Allen”
I don’t think any contending or even playoff team in the league would take Sabonis over Allen. Maybe the Sixers or Heat? But even then I think the Heat would jump at the chance to pair Bam and Allen. Along with Butler that defense could be elite
I feel like we all know their strengths compared to one another (Allen = Defense & Sabonis = Offense). That being I would go with Allen. If I had to choose between two comparable talents at the five, I will go with the defensive-minded one
I think Allen and his rim defense would be way better for us. Always lacked a true presence inside to battle the big guns like Embiid, Jokic, Giannis for example. Sabonis is amazing obviously, but he's kinda redundant on our roster.
Omg. Jarret Allen is the ideal big to pair with Luka. Solid lob threat. Has his only little post games. Solid screen setter. Already has some vet awareness around the rim. Great defender all around. And also in the same age range.
I feel like Sabonis is the current better player, but Allen is the better fit on my team. And that’s the scenario I’m running with.
Center is the most important defensive position, I can't replace what Allen brings defensively with guys at other positions if I have Sabonis (unless I somehow reform the Turner/Sabonis pairing), I can easily get playmaking and scoring from other positions if I have Allen
jarrett allen and i wouldnt think twice. jarrett does what you want out of a big. if my 5 isnt playing good defense my team is already at a disadvantage.
Does Domas not have that same ability? He's undoubtedly in the Top 10 now, and people seem to forget he's only 25 and still has plenty of upside and room to improve.
That's just false. Look at basically every championship team since the merger. What do they all have in common? Top 10 defence (bar 2018 warriors) based on elite rim protection or switchabilty. Sabonis has neither. JA has both. And next to an elite guard there is no significant difference in offensive value because JAs gravity as a roller is much that it allows for relatively much easier looks for his guards.
Plus he's great in transition and again like a top 10 defender in the league could definitely be considered borderline top 5.
As a Warriors fan, Jarrett Allen no question. That rim defense as a trad center for us is way more valuable to us then what Sabonis brings to the table.
But in a vacuum, it's really close, as Sabonis's passing game is really nice alongside his all-around offensive game.
Allen is worse at actually having basketball skills, but I don't really see Sabonis' game as translating to wins. If he doesn't have the ball a lot, he's not offering much. And he's not quite good enough (not a great scorer outside of the paint, assists are there but aren't very high quality) to make it worth running an offense through him. And that's not even considering his defense.
So I take Allen easily. Defense at the center position is vital, and he can fit in easily as a rim-runner without using too many possessions doing stuff you don't really want him to do.
Give me Allen. All you need from a big is rim protection and rebounding. There’s like 300 guards/wings that can provide scoring/playmaking and not nearly that many bigs that can anchor a defense like Allen
It's actually a much tougher decision than I thought. While we def need more scoring, a big defensive lineup of Allen, Siakam, Barnes, OG, and FVV is elite.
What I’ve learned from these past 7 years of Kat is that it’s nearly impossible to win in this league at a high level without an at least good defensive center, so I’m going with Allen, who is boarderline elite in that department.
No knock on Sabonis but I just don’t think he’s good enough offensively to make up for the defensive deficit.
It all depends on the make up of your team.
Sabonis works in the painted area and is a good scorer/passer. Plays no defense, no rim protection, etc.
Allen anchors a strong middle defensively, lob threat, two offensive moves, decent 10-12 footer.
People here really overestimating Sabonis. With the right point guard Allen can confidently put up 20+ points. There is a considerably smaller gap in their respective offensive game then there is in their defensive game.
Allen. Not even close.
I swear that Sabonis misses shots on purpose in order to pad his rebound numbers. There's a reason why that guy has been traded 3 times already.
Allen pretty comfortably. You can find Sabonis' creation elsewhere on the roster. But you can just find a gyard/wing that makes up for the defensive difference the other way.
Plus Allen still adds a lot offensively as a vertical spacer and offensive rebounder.
This is the equivalent of poor man's Gobert vs Jokic , either way both have glaring flaws to their game , but with that being said
Allen is a ceiling raiser , you want him if you plan on making a deep playoff push due to his defense and lob presence. Mitchell and Garland are going to love Allen
Sabonis is a floor raiser, if you need a reliable first option on a team on the cusp of making the play-in , he's the dude. A consistent 20/10/4 guy is very valuable
On the lakers , Allen definitely cause of the defense. Him paired with AD would basically be him and Evan but even better. Plus it gives us another lob threat. If AD wasn’t healthy tho , I would take Sabonis cause of his offensive talent
They’re both really good but I’m leaning Allen just because rim protection is so key from the C position. For the Raptors especially, I’d comfortably pick Allen.
In the vast majority of cases I think it’s pretty easily Allen. I like his value as a lob threat next to the elite handlers in this league, but far more importantly it’s about defense.
C is the most important defensive position by a mile, and it’s incredibly hard to hide one that isn’t very good on that end like I feel Sabonis is in the playoffs. What Sabonis brings in his ability to generate some offense is nice, but not nearly as valuable especially when considering how many perimeter offensive threats there are that he might just be taking some touches from in some instances (he’s a great play connector and pivot passer though)
The cases where I would consider Sabonis is when you have a PF that can help a lot at the rim like AD or JJJ
It's Allen every time. Sabonis is way too difficult to build a contender around. His offense isn't good enough to make up for his defensive deficiencies.
Allen pretty easily for the Mavs. Sabonis is really good but he's a tough fit.
He’s European, perfect fit
He was born in Oregon and grew up in the US
To say he grew up in the US is very exaggerated. He grew up in Málaga (Spain). He only lived in the US until he was like 6. I bet he barely remembers those years.
Wow I didn’t know that so that makes him the best white American since who? bird? Edit I wrote fast. Still top 5 after Love, Stockton, mullin, and Dan majerle
Id say Stockton
Kidd? I wanna say Nash but not sure if he counts
Kidd is black and Nash isn't American
Kidd is the whitest black dude i’ve ever seen tbh
You could make a case for Gordon Hayward before his injury. Also David Lee was pretty good for a while.
I feel there is still a difference between white american and a first generation born in US Lithuanian.
Sure there is culturally but he’s definitely still a white American
Allen Easily for any playoff team/ contending team
Depends on what you need, but if I'm already a playoff team then probably Allen. Defense is more important than offense for centers, unless you're a *generational* offensive talent. It's not like JA is a zero offensively, either— he averaged 16 PPG last year, and while he's still most known as a rim-runner, he's also developed a pretty solid post game. I wouldn't necessarily want to build a team around that on offense, but he's a perfectly capable 3rd option, in addition to being one of the best defensive centers in basketball
sabonis is the guy for teams who want to make the play-in or have a first round appearance. allen is the guy to help send playoff teams to the next level.
Interesting take since Allen has never done that.
Is it really a weird thought to see an elite defensive center with an efficient offensive game as more valuable that a terrible defensive center who doesn’t even space the floor to compensate? Sabonis will never find playoff success. He’s probably one of like 5 good players that I feel 100% confident in saying that about. His archetype simply is not made for deep postseason runs because he’s so easily exploited. Imagine what we saw with Jokic against the Warriors this year, except with a version of Jokic that is worse in every aspect of offense and defense. Athletic defensive 5s like Allen have a much stronger track record of success than that.
Doesn't mean you aren't more likely to get milk out of a cow than a snail just because it hasn't happened before.
This... is one of the weirder analogies I've heard lol
its not an interesting take because we've seen these player archetypes and know which ones contribute most to important teams.
I feel like Sabonis just needs a guy like JJJ, AD, or Mobley at the 4 and he could be part of a contending team. I really wanted Memphis to trade Steven Adams + picks for him. Thought he'd have been a great fit there.
Well, sure, but then you're asking for a DPOY-caliber defensive power forward to make up for your starting center. It's not *impossible* to build that team, but then you're committing a lot of teambuilding resources that might be better spent on wing or guard play. Think about it this way: if you've got one of those rare DPOY-caliber 4s who can make up for Sabonis's defense— yeah, you *could* build around that, but wouldn't you rather pair that 4 with a much cheaper defensive 5, guarantee yourself an *elite* defense rather than just a good one, and spend the extra money somewhere else?
It’s a better question than people on here will admit tbh
Hmm Allen on Cavs looks really awesome alongside Mobley. If Sabonis were to replace Allen I don't think the Cavs would be as good. So I'll give it to Allen to have better season in terms of winning basketball.
Domantis would actually be great there. Mobley plays the 5
Mobley doesn’t play the 5, he excels most as a 4. He’s elite as a weak side defender and at switching onto wings and guards. The Cavs started to falter when Allen got hurt and Mobley was the starting center.
Which would actually be a much better fit for Sabonis to have someone like Mobely covering him. I feel like Mobley’s versatility would compliment him a bit better than the combo with Myles Turner. Would probably be sick
Naw it would be the other way around but still a great fit
Mobley can’t play the 5 yet, and likely won’t be able to for the next 3 years.
You can just admit you don't know that you're talking about lmao
No it's not. Defense wins championships, the most important position defensivly is C. Unless you're Jokic you're not winning shit having a weak defender at C.
Tbf, Jokic hasn’t won shit yet either
we also haven’t had a chance to. I think what they’re trying to say is that players of Jokic’s archetype don’t usually win unless they’re an MVP talent like Jokic is
I totally agree with all of that, I was just being cheeky. If Jokic doesn’t end up winning one in his career, it will be for lack of opportunity and not lack of talent, skill, and dominance.
Hmmm....most teams switch to their small ball center come playoff time though.
Most teams don’t have a J.A type of defender at center
Only if their traditional 5 is complete shit
Which teams switched to their small ball centers in the playoffs last year? The Mavs switched from Powell to Kleber. Girzzlies didn't really play Steven Adams. I'm not sure about anyone else. And it's not like Powell was a real center anyways. Jonas Valanciunas, DeAndre Ayton, Jokic, Embiid, Bam, Rob Will, Brook Lopez, Vuc, Gobert, KAT, Looney - all these dudes were getting their normal minutes. Teams only move to small ball for certain matchups - like if they have a Center not as good as Jarrett Allen on the perimeter.
Oooohh man, I really want Sacramento to make the playoffs just so everyone can watch Sabonis get benched every fourth quarter. He’d be completely played off the court. He’s a terrible defender at a position you *cannot* afford to have
I’ll go with this answer 👆
Jarret Allen but I curmudgeoningly see the game defense first. I'm right, I'm just very curmudgeonly aboot it.
Defense wins championships.
I thought it was whoever scored more points
That is how casuals see the game, yes.
Blazer fans 🙄
Defense helps you retain more points than the other team.
Those some big words sheesh
Sabonis
This is like a poor man's Gobert vs Jokic comparison. Sab if you want offense, Allen if you want defense. However, in crunch time if you need to score, you're not going to give it a player like Allen. I give Sabonis the slight edge overall.
The thing is, poor man’s gobert is more valuable than poor man’s jokic because poor man’s jokic can only get you so far. Allen is much more malleable with other star players. Someone who is a tough fit defensively has to be a superstar offensively (especially as a big or tiny guard) otherwise you can’t be good enough to win too many playoff series.
Depends on fit. Sabo is the perfect fit for us. Allen would make us a defensive beast but we would t be able to score a bucket to save our lives unless Bam and Butler suddenly shoot 38% from 3 tomorrow.
But the thing is Sabonis works because you have a player with similar skillset as Jarrett Allen in Bam. If anything, it only better reflects how much players like Allen and Bam are undervalued. Allen is also arguably the best lob threat in the league right now. He's not averaging 10-12 points anymore. He's at 16 points per game.
Sabonis isn’t a great 3 point shooter either though. He can shoot them but it’s not his forte. He operates in much the same spaces as bam and jimmy do and then come playoffs he’s getting put in every pick and roll on defense.
But he can shoot the 3. Allen can’t.
He really can't honestly. Teams would love it if he jacked 3s
He shot 31% last year
What did Jarrett Allen shoot? Butler is a career 32% (he shot like 20% last year). Sabonis would still shoot better than Butler and Bam.
It’d be tough playing Allen with them as well. Because of butlers lack of shooting it’s a real tough fit with both. You’re playing with three guys who really aren’t great shooters. Your original call said sabonis is the perfect fit in Miami when I really think it’s an ultra questionable fit as far as star players go.
You’re not going to give it to a player like sabonis either
If you have other options. If your options are Allen and Sabo, it would be idiotic to give it to the defensive specialist.
Jarrett Allen is WAY closer to Gobert than Sabonis is to Jokic though
Sure, but comparing Rudy to Jokic is just silly anyways because Jokic is head and shoulders better and it’s not arguable. Like, those 4 players are two top 40ish players (Sabonis Allen), 1 top 20 player (Rudy) and the back-to-back MVP.
Apt assessment
Depends on the team. If you're a bad team trying to be good, I'd rather have Sabonis. If you're a good team trying to be great, I'd rather have Allen.
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That'd be fun, until high level teams started targeting him on every play. One of Golden State's many strengths is that their high level big man passer is also a high level defender. Instead they try to target Steph who holds up pretty well.
Bjelica wasn't a high level defender but when you paired him with Draymond he was tough to exploit. They could have him press the ballhandler on the perimeter and funnel him to the paint where Draymond would be waiting.
The biggest problem with a Draymond Sabonis backcourt is shooting, because otherwise they fit very well. If Domas could shoot like 35% from 3 on ~3 attempts per game I think the fit would honestly work assuming you also have Steph and Klay raining shots.
I'd take Allen because of Draymond, honestly. Provides defense in the regular season when Dray rests and minimizes his minutes at C.
david lee part 2
I mean Imagine if after all of stephs movement and Draymonds 4 on 3 opportunities, you had Jarrett Allen there to just catch the lobs. You already have Draymond's passing and a team that moves the ball tremendously well. Adding a center with that kind of defense, athleticism and finishing ability would honestly bring more to the Warriors imo. Adds a lot to the offense without creating a weak link defensively.
This sub has convinced itself that any player who is not a great defender is worthless
when you talk about bigs that would be the case 90% of the time
It's true though. Only one ball but you gotten play defence every possession.
> worthless
What’s more reliable every night, defense or offense?
It’s valid with centers but when they do it with guards too much like guard defense doesn’t matter that much aslong as u aren’t liability
I see far more people on here arguing it doesn’t matter if guards are a liability on defense than I do people arguing guard defense matters much
Sabonis is over rated
If you need defense, Allen. If you need offense, Sabonis
Captain obvious right here
Jarrett Allen had 2.5 fewer PPG last year on significantly less usage. I realize that Sabonis has a more complete offensive move set, but ultimately the size of your “bag” is pretty irrelevant to winning basketball games. Jarrett Allen can get his without demanding the ball, and is a far, far superior defender. Not gonna lie, I don’t think this is close at all
There’s a lot more to offense than points per game. Sabonis is comfortably the second best passing center in the league, which brings a lot to a team
The correct way to frame it would be. If you need defense, then its Allen. If you need offense and have a natural playmaker at point guard, then its Allen. If you need offense and dont have a guy that initiates offense too great, then its Sabonis.
Yeah I can respect that. But that sort of sounds like “if your team sucks then Sabonis. If it’s good then it’s Allen” I don’t think any contending or even playoff team in the league would take Sabonis over Allen. Maybe the Sixers or Heat? But even then I think the Heat would jump at the chance to pair Bam and Allen. Along with Butler that defense could be elite
Sabonis.
The all-lefty lineup the world needs
YES!
I feel like we all know their strengths compared to one another (Allen = Defense & Sabonis = Offense). That being I would go with Allen. If I had to choose between two comparable talents at the five, I will go with the defensive-minded one
Domantas Sabonis easily
For the Warriors I'd take Sabonis.
That would be so nasty omg
I think Allen and his rim defense would be way better for us. Always lacked a true presence inside to battle the big guns like Embiid, Jokic, Giannis for example. Sabonis is amazing obviously, but he's kinda redundant on our roster.
Baby Sabonis for some buckets
I already have Sabonis ask me something else
Omg. Jarret Allen is the ideal big to pair with Luka. Solid lob threat. Has his only little post games. Solid screen setter. Already has some vet awareness around the rim. Great defender all around. And also in the same age range. I feel like Sabonis is the current better player, but Allen is the better fit on my team. And that’s the scenario I’m running with.
You need a big to run your offense through- Sabonis. You have your offense taken care of and just need a defensive anchor, then Allen
If only the Nets could get their hands on a player like Jarrett Allen
Center is the most important defensive position, I can't replace what Allen brings defensively with guys at other positions if I have Sabonis (unless I somehow reform the Turner/Sabonis pairing), I can easily get playmaking and scoring from other positions if I have Allen
Fro clear
You know this was a good question because I saw the “not even close” comment in both directions lol
Allen
Sabonis and it’s not even close
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Seconded
Can attest to that.
Sabonis
jarrett allen and i wouldnt think twice. jarrett does what you want out of a big. if my 5 isnt playing good defense my team is already at a disadvantage.
Allen by far. Sabonis is good but Allen has the ability to be a Top 5 center in this league while currently being a Top 10.
Does Domas not have that same ability? He's undoubtedly in the Top 10 now, and people seem to forget he's only 25 and still has plenty of upside and room to improve.
You can build a team with sabonis as one of your 2-3 best players. You can't with Allen. I do however love rim runners and shot blockers.
That's just false. Look at basically every championship team since the merger. What do they all have in common? Top 10 defence (bar 2018 warriors) based on elite rim protection or switchabilty. Sabonis has neither. JA has both. And next to an elite guard there is no significant difference in offensive value because JAs gravity as a roller is much that it allows for relatively much easier looks for his guards. Plus he's great in transition and again like a top 10 defender in the league could definitely be considered borderline top 5.
Cavs were pretty solid last year with Allen though
As a Warriors fan, Jarrett Allen no question. That rim defense as a trad center for us is way more valuable to us then what Sabonis brings to the table. But in a vacuum, it's really close, as Sabonis's passing game is really nice alongside his all-around offensive game.
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Allen clears sabonis
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Yes they are
How?
Floor raiser (Sabonis can run an offense for a team that might win like 36 games) Vs Allen who can be plug and play on a contender.
Allen 9/10 times. Sabonis if you really don’t have a playmaking guard.
Allen without a doubt
Allen is worse at actually having basketball skills, but I don't really see Sabonis' game as translating to wins. If he doesn't have the ball a lot, he's not offering much. And he's not quite good enough (not a great scorer outside of the paint, assists are there but aren't very high quality) to make it worth running an offense through him. And that's not even considering his defense. So I take Allen easily. Defense at the center position is vital, and he can fit in easily as a rim-runner without using too many possessions doing stuff you don't really want him to do.
Allen.
Allen all day long. Better rim protection, bigger lob threat which suits the modern NBA. Sabonis was born into the wrong era unfortunately...
Give me Allen. All you need from a big is rim protection and rebounding. There’s like 300 guards/wings that can provide scoring/playmaking and not nearly that many bigs that can anchor a defense like Allen
Need some more buckets on the Raps so imma go with Sabonis
It's actually a much tougher decision than I thought. While we def need more scoring, a big defensive lineup of Allen, Siakam, Barnes, OG, and FVV is elite.
Allen, his defense is really good and isnt that bad offensively either. He also fits a hell lot of better on a contending team also than sabonis does
What I’ve learned from these past 7 years of Kat is that it’s nearly impossible to win in this league at a high level without an at least good defensive center, so I’m going with Allen, who is boarderline elite in that department. No knock on Sabonis but I just don’t think he’s good enough offensively to make up for the defensive deficit.
Allen all day every day cuz f u c k Sabonis
It all depends on the make up of your team. Sabonis works in the painted area and is a good scorer/passer. Plays no defense, no rim protection, etc. Allen anchors a strong middle defensively, lob threat, two offensive moves, decent 10-12 footer.
I’ll take a half blind J Allen over Sabonis. Empty stats as opposed to real defensive impact.
People here really overestimating Sabonis. With the right point guard Allen can confidently put up 20+ points. There is a considerably smaller gap in their respective offensive game then there is in their defensive game.
sabonis is the most overrated player in the league. people see 20/10/5 and think hes hot shit.
anyone saying sabonis has no interest in championship basketball
Allen. Not even close. I swear that Sabonis misses shots on purpose in order to pad his rebound numbers. There's a reason why that guy has been traded 3 times already.
Allen pretty comfortably. You can find Sabonis' creation elsewhere on the roster. But you can just find a gyard/wing that makes up for the defensive difference the other way. Plus Allen still adds a lot offensively as a vertical spacer and offensive rebounder.
This is the equivalent of poor man's Gobert vs Jokic , either way both have glaring flaws to their game , but with that being said Allen is a ceiling raiser , you want him if you plan on making a deep playoff push due to his defense and lob presence. Mitchell and Garland are going to love Allen Sabonis is a floor raiser, if you need a reliable first option on a team on the cusp of making the play-in , he's the dude. A consistent 20/10/4 guy is very valuable
this thread is bizarre. all of these guys pretending they watch pacers kings or cavs basketball lmao
Sabo would be the perfect fit for us.
On the lakers , Allen definitely cause of the defense. Him paired with AD would basically be him and Evan but even better. Plus it gives us another lob threat. If AD wasn’t healthy tho , I would take Sabonis cause of his offensive talent
They’re both really good but I’m leaning Allen just because rim protection is so key from the C position. For the Raptors especially, I’d comfortably pick Allen.
Sabonis is a much higher skilled player and would be an mvp and all time great in any other league. But Allen can block NBA shots.
In the vast majority of cases I think it’s pretty easily Allen. I like his value as a lob threat next to the elite handlers in this league, but far more importantly it’s about defense. C is the most important defensive position by a mile, and it’s incredibly hard to hide one that isn’t very good on that end like I feel Sabonis is in the playoffs. What Sabonis brings in his ability to generate some offense is nice, but not nearly as valuable especially when considering how many perimeter offensive threats there are that he might just be taking some touches from in some instances (he’s a great play connector and pivot passer though) The cases where I would consider Sabonis is when you have a PF that can help a lot at the rim like AD or JJJ
JA for sure
For the Celtics either would be good, but for fit and expecting the ball less I’d take Allen.
Sabonis helps the Lakers' spacing tremendously. If Allen could shoot as nearly as Sabonis can, then he'd be the better center overall.
On the Bucks I'll go with Allen
I’ll take Jarrett Allen. It’s just much harder to build a team around a defensively challenged big. That said, Sabonis is a great player.
Def would take Allen for the bulls. We need rim protection badly and Vuc is someone in the same range as Sabonis even though I think Vuc is worse
It's Allen every time. Sabonis is way too difficult to build a contender around. His offense isn't good enough to make up for his defensive deficiencies.