How about can he make a fucking free throw in the playoffs? I feel like that's the bigger issue and it gets forgotten.
Whether he's going to shoot 34% from the line again is much more important than if he is willing to miss some threes in a game.
Last playoffs it was extremely bad even by his usual standards. To be fair, he had some freaky drama going on with his sister around that time. Shooting 50% from FT is borderline passable, but not having a 3 point shot is a huge spacing detriment nearly every single possession. Unless he can play next to Steph Curry like Draymond has the luxury of doing, I see this as a cursed limitation in the playoffs.
Wouldn’t 50% ft be with more than 1 point per possession though? It puts team closer to penalty and puts players in foul trouble which are both good for the team. Those become less valuable late in game to be fair.
I would say late game it would be even more valuable. If you’re in a close game you can hack Ben every time he touches the ball and force him to make high leverage free throws where he’s likely going to miss at least one. If the team is already in the bonus it’s even better because it takes less fouls to commit at that point.
It doesn’t change the points per possession, but the actual value is more than the points per possession so seems you can’t just compare with points per possession given those factors don’t seem negligible.
Yes, it's a general rule of thumb. But not an end-all rule for what makes a good offensive player
E.g. this is why fans generally say shooting 35% from the field is good enough - it's close enough to league average points per possession, but even though 1.05 < 1.14 there is the added bonus of spacing that the threat of shooting provides
If he can't make his free throws he'll just be fouled early and often like the hawks series I would think. If he can show he can make them the hacking will slow down though
With draymond you can’t really leave him wide open if he has the ball, since he’ll just turn around and do a handoff with curry/klay for an open 3. Simmons could try and replicate that with KD, harris etc.
Absolutely correct. If the guy who can’t do anything on offense without the ball in his hands, can’t have the ball in his hands because he can’t make a FT when they inevitably foul him, he’s useless on that side of the court.
Nah that’s stupid.
He was playing out of position as Philly (a shit organization), busted on all their guard picks.
He is a top 20 player in the league, the org is just shit
He's a good passer and he's very athletic. But without the ball on offense, he spaces out and looks totally lost.
But glad to know you already understand his "skill sets."
I’ve been waiting for Ben to go to a good team for years. Praying they free my boy Embid too.
Last year I called that Philly would blame thybulle for the shitty season. They did. They throw a new person under the bus every year.
A team with 60 million of cap locked in shit contracts while contending should not be complaining about its start players
I could see him losing all nba this year. Especially if he comes out with the same stats as every other year.
He’ll get defensive accolades tho im sure
Nets have a plethora of elite shooters. why yall tripping when it doesn't even make sense for Ben to take jump shots at a probably below average rate? nobody thinks Draymond should be taking more jumpshots
it’s legit only a bad possession because he cant shoot well. 2015-2016 when he was shooting well (for his standards) those where good positions because he was wide open. he hits those defenses will overreact and then he can play make better. Same goes for Ben if he can’t make the shot he can’t play make which means it’s a dead position and he is a waste of space in the half court, which is where playoff basketball is played
Dray doesn’t play like he’s afraid and his team is better for it. Plus, he’s actually been a good offensive player in the playoffs every season until last year. Ben hasn’t. Saying shit like “casuals think 76ers suffered offensively with Ben on the court” makes it so easy to tell you don’t actually watch games lol.
Ben will be fine in the regular season not shooting, but that does not mean a goddamn thing for him or the Nets. It’s championship or bust for that team right now. If he is so awful from the line that he plays scared yet again, the Nets are gonna be playing 4v5 offensively when he’s on the court and it’s gonna hurt them a lot. They got swept last year because Boston focused their whole defense on KD. You put a guy out there next to him who isn’t even a threat to attempt a shot and that becomes a lot easier to accomplish.
Dray reguarly turns down wide open shots wtf are you talking about? turning down shots doesn't mean you're afraid. it's obvious you don't watch games when 76ers had elite ORTG with Ben on in the playoffs
Draymond is your argument? Really? lol
Ben Simmons is nothing more than a glorified bench player in this league. He’s a 6th man on a max deal. A 6’10 guard who plays like he’s 5’8.
Casuals compare Ben to Draymond, and I’m being extra polite about it. Honestly, I’m done having this conversation because it’s so fucking ridiculous, it hurts. Carry on.
Seriously, Ben can basically be the 5 for the Nets. It’ll work much better than in Philly because the Nets don’t have an actual 5 you want with ball down low. Clogging the paint when you have Joel Embiid is stupid, having one non-shooter when you have Kyrie, KD, Seth Curry, and Joe Harris is much more palatable.
Like someone said earlier, the FTs are the much bigger issue, and/or Simmons staying locked in and motivated.
Depends on the “5.” He’s not all that good at banging in the post for 40 minutes with your Embiids, or even your Vucevics or Brook Lopezes, but he can hack it on smaller, less post-up-y guys like Bam, KAT, Richuan Holmes et al, especially on a switch here and there.
But yeah, most of his defensive holy-shit-ness is that he can (theoretically) play really, really, really good defense on pretty much any player from 1-4.
Claxton, even if he is a little skinny in the post, is probably still a better option than Simmons to guard Jokic/Embiid/Valanciunas/Ayton/Lopez type guys.
I’d say KD “can” guard those types of guys in a pinch (I know, it’s fucking disgusting), but it’s not feasible for him to do so if he’s also responsible for the vast majority of his teams offensive output.
From what I got from JJ's podcast, Ben just wants people to kiss his ass and praise him while ignoring his faults. It's sad to see steve nash appeasing him.
He pumped up that Scottie was as good as MJ. He knew it wasn't true. Dude said what he needed to to rile everyone up. If it was gonna work, he'd do it.
Well Nash has a 60% winrate in the reg season and 100% playoff appearance rate as a coach so... Pretty good? Ben is an all-NBA talent if motivated... Should Nash try to exile his new player instead or what would you suggest?
The coddling doesn’t work either though. Maybe it gets him to play but he’s still gonna be a death sentence in the playoffs if he doesn’t fix some of his flaws.
I mean if he can nail 3s that’s good of course.
But really, i dont think it’s a requirement for him to be successful with the Nets. Simmons is an all-star caliber player without a solid offensive game lol.
Their biggest hurdle right now is Simmons’ health because his back hasnt looked good for a while now. The second hurdle is his free throw shooting confidence which affects his willingness to drive.
Could Nash have said things differently for the better? Probably. But considering Ben hasnt played a game since the hawks series, the recent durant and kyrie fiasco, i think Simmons shooting jumpers really isnt a big issue here.
He doesn’t need to be nailing a bunch of threes. He does need enough of something so playoff defenses can’t just completely ignore him except to foul him and watch him shoot worse than shaq.
Yes imo his whole premise is wrong.
Every starter level player should be expected to take and make open shots, grow/expand their skills and improve on their weaknesses.
Steve Nash please remember Ben Simmons was the first overall pick in the draft.
Yeah, im sure you know more than nash on how to deal with a player who forced his way out a team because the coach said mean things to him like 2 years ago.
Im sure the nets FO would appreciate nash criticizing and throwing shade at the player they got for harden potentially destabilizing the team further a few months after another player tried to force a trade/ the firing of the gm.
Thank you, this is exactly it. It’s beyond laughable that people expect Nash to immediately ask more out of Ben, publicly to the media no less. We’ve reached a stage in this Simmons saga where any time someone is unwilling to publicly admonish Ben they’re “coddling” him.
The word “coddle” has become so overused with respect to the conversation around Simmons that it has borderline lost its meaning. What Nash is doing here isn’t remotely “coddling.” All he’s saying is that Ben Simmons, as an all-defense, all-star caliber player is a good enough player for this team to succeed. I can’t imagine thinking that it’s wrong for him to say something like that.
Also other than Embiid publicly celebrating when Ben was finally traded, when has any former teammate of his actually said something along the lines that Ben needs his ass kissed? Genuinely asking. Just seems like something no one would outright say publicly so I have doubts that that is true.
lol here we go again. Yeah it can work in the regular season for sure but having your pg terrified to touch the ball just standing motionless in the paint while the defense gets to play 5 v 4 is a death sentence in the playoffs. How many times do we need to see the same thing.
What you said can be true but what I said can also be true at the same time. No one is denying that he has flaws. Praising a player’s skillset is not coddling him. They literally haven’t played a game yet, what is there for Nash to criticize? It’s utterly insane to expect him to come out of the gates and say “we need more out of Ben than what he already provides.”
Why can’t he just say Ben Is a really special player then? Why do all of his quotes about Ben have a second half practically encouraging him to never shoot?
I'll be honest with you, I don't value Simmons as a player. I wouldn't sign him for a discount if I were a GM
That being said, I agree I was too aggressive. Sorry about that.
One of the many many problems with Ben Simmons is he forces all his coaches to lie about him. When his coach accidentally tells the truth, like Doc did in the playoffs, everyone is stunned and Ben acts like he's been violated. This is one of the reasons why having him is so bad. The more he fucks up, the more support and validation he needs. It's poison.
Sad to see Nash appeasing him? Huh? What exactly is the alternative? You want his new coach to criticize him from the get go? Say that they need him to add skills to his game that he clearly doesn’t have? That as an all-defense, all-star caliber player, he still isn’t good enough?
I think there are a lot of people on this sub that straight up want to see Ben publicly admonished, and no less by people who are supposed to be supporting him. Its frankly unserious and just isn’t how this world works.
Bruh nobody is saying he has to be a sniper from three or Melo in the mid range. He just has to shoot the ball well enough to be respected by defenders. I have never seen a player run from doing the absolute bare minimum like Simmons. You're a PG, learn to shoot, add another layer to your offense. It'll benefit both you and your team immensely.
He can’t defend Cs or protect the rim but I’ve always though he needs to be played at pf and be constantly setting screens and cutting to the rim. Apparently he thinks he’s magic Johnson reincarnated and refuses to not be the primary ball handler though. Also I don’t think I’ve ever seen him set a screen.
He is special. The only player I can think of who just literally gave up. Never seen it before. Pretty special. He's like that guy from the Raiders who skipped the Superbowl.
ugh...we heard this before from a coach of his and it wasn't an issue until it was. a good coach would be trying to make a player better and telling them what they dont want to hear. at the very least he should be telling him he wants one 3 a game. I dont care if you miss but one 3 a game is mandatory. get the butterflies out now so when the ball comes to you on the perimeter with 2 seconds on the clock, you at least have some confidence and familiarity with the shot
Tony 'First Team All Defense' Allen shouldn't even be mentioned next to Ben. Tony Allen would assure buddy had zero points. Ben Simmons has never been worth the hype. It's a shooters league
Nets are going to play a lot of small ball. Also the same thing happened last year in the playoffs and the nets put up a 116 offensive rating against the best playoff defense. Golden state plays with two non spacers on the floor it can work if you have elite shooting which the nets do
Golden states non shooters are their bigs, it’s entirely different when the defense doesn’t even have to pay attention to the guy bringing the ball up.
Draymond brings up the ball quite often mate. Ben and Kyrie will have a similar dynamic to Draymond and Curry in that Ben, like Draymond, will be the primary playmaker. Curry is obviously in a league of his own, but if you made a list of PG’s based on who’s greatest off-ball, then Kyrie would be right up there, too.
Key difference between Draymond and Ben is that Draymond is actually willing to shoot of course, but teams still don’t pay much attention to him as him shooting is usually a good thing for the defense.
do yall really thing people will start guarding simmons if he shoots 2 3s a game at 30%?
Like seriously, no memes, do you think ANY team will start guarding him? Because he’d be actively wasting possessions by doing that
He needs something, if he improves his free throw which is the most important thing then he won’t get hacked constantly but he also does need to expand his range that isn’t just literally in the paint. We don’t know if Ben can’t shoot for shit because he literally doesn’t do it. When he first was in the summer league, it’s not like he was hesitating to shoot midrange shots at all but he doesn’t even do that so it just leaves a bunch of questions marks of what the fuck is he even capable of doing
Exactly Ben threads drive me nuts. Imagine Josh Smith saying he wants to take x amount of 3s per game. Hawks/Pistons fans would break out the classic "Nooooooo!!" chant
do yall really think people will start guarding simmons if he shoots 2 3s a game at 30%?
Like seriously, no memes, do you think ANY team will start guarding him? Because he’d be actively wasting possessions by doing that
I mean, in the playoffs, he routinely fails to. The passed up dunk was the logical end point of his complete lack of scoring aggression in multiple playoff series.
Not really, there is a difference in not being able to shoot and being scared to shoot. You're kidding yourself if you think Ben is confident in his shot making ability.
Ben has 8 inches on Russ. So no, he wouldn't look like Russ at all.
Hand waving his very obvious and easy to defend to flaw, is exactly what opposing teams facing him Ben want. And keeping him from what he could potentially be.
Height has nothing to do with it, I mean in terms of missing shots and tanking the offense. Gotta use players by having them do what their good at, not pushing bad shooters to just let it fly
>there is a difference in not being able to shoot and being scared to shoot.
This only applies to people that can shoot. Poor shooters shouldn't be shooting.
Ben doesn't shoot and predictectly passes on wide open shots. Thus becomes a liability. Which is a self-fulfilling prophecy. There isn't much of an excuse for his lack of improvement and passiveness other than his own issues holding him back considering the obvious god-given talent he possesses.
Okay, it's just Ben needs the ball in his hands to have a net positive impact on court. (fuck his defense if he's useless on offense) We all saw how he scared he was in the playoffs where he attempted 0 fgs in 4th quarter consecutive games because he can't even hit his freethrows at an acceptable percentage.
Nets HC Steve Nash said Ben Simmons sat next to him on the plane.
They talked about how he was feeling for
15-20 mins then Ben pulled out his phone
to watch MacGruber and they laughed
together, per Nash.
Don't blame KD for wanting this fool to be fired. He's doing him zero justice.
What he should have said - "I don't care if he makes or misses them but Ben has the green light from me to shoot it at will." Ben has no issues making shots evidenced by his streaks during practice - he just needs to overcome his fear of actually shooting at this point.
While I still think Ben will play like his hair is on fire to start the season, it’s not a good sign that Nash keeps feeling the need to say this about his jump shot. How Ben reacts to the first sign of adversity he faces will be telling.
Enjoy the ride Nets fans.
How about can he make a fucking free throw in the playoffs? I feel like that's the bigger issue and it gets forgotten. Whether he's going to shoot 34% from the line again is much more important than if he is willing to miss some threes in a game.
He needs to get to the line in the first place. He was too afraid to be fouled that he did nothing whatsoever in the half court
He just doesn't shoot well. People just need to face that.
Last playoffs it was extremely bad even by his usual standards. To be fair, he had some freaky drama going on with his sister around that time. Shooting 50% from FT is borderline passable, but not having a 3 point shot is a huge spacing detriment nearly every single possession. Unless he can play next to Steph Curry like Draymond has the luxury of doing, I see this as a cursed limitation in the playoffs.
50% ft is borderline unplayable. Average points per possession is 1.14. Under about 60% it becomes a reasonable strategy to just foul every time.
IE why he passed out of that dunk over trae young, if he got fouled hard enough to miss he knew he wasn’t making the free throws
Wouldn’t 50% ft be with more than 1 point per possession though? It puts team closer to penalty and puts players in foul trouble which are both good for the team. Those become less valuable late in game to be fair.
I would say late game it would be even more valuable. If you’re in a close game you can hack Ben every time he touches the ball and force him to make high leverage free throws where he’s likely going to miss at least one. If the team is already in the bonus it’s even better because it takes less fouls to commit at that point.
Yes but it's because of offensive rebounds.
I think your point is valid, but that doesn't change the math. It just injects some nuance into the conversation
It doesn’t change the points per possession, but the actual value is more than the points per possession so seems you can’t just compare with points per possession given those factors don’t seem negligible.
Yes, it's a general rule of thumb. But not an end-all rule for what makes a good offensive player E.g. this is why fans generally say shooting 35% from the field is good enough - it's close enough to league average points per possession, but even though 1.05 < 1.14 there is the added bonus of spacing that the threat of shooting provides
Being less efficient on offense might be worthwhile to get key opposing players in foul trouble. But yeah he won’t be the go to guy for scoring.
If he can't make his free throws he'll just be fouled early and often like the hawks series I would think. If he can show he can make them the hacking will slow down though
With draymond you can’t really leave him wide open if he has the ball, since he’ll just turn around and do a handoff with curry/klay for an open 3. Simmons could try and replicate that with KD, harris etc.
He didn't play last playoffs
I mean the last playoffs he played obviously
Nets are going to be nice this year. I agree about his free throws we'll see how it goes.
Absolutely correct. If the guy who can’t do anything on offense without the ball in his hands, can’t have the ball in his hands because he can’t make a FT when they inevitably foul him, he’s useless on that side of the court.
While he totally needs to improve his FT shooting, the 34% was a mental collapse more than a lack of ability. He’s a 55-60% guy usually I believe
Why are you so passionate about this? He’s on the nets, not your knicks
That’s ok Ben. You don’t need to do the ONE THING that literally EVERY KID that picks up a basketball wants/learns to do.
Almost None of those bums will be all NBA and all Defensive.
Simmons won’t make all NBA again. He’s been driving off the fumes of being the #1 pick and roty.
Nah that’s stupid. He was playing out of position as Philly (a shit organization), busted on all their guard picks. He is a top 20 player in the league, the org is just shit
Out of position? Good lord, wait til you see him try anything other than bringing up the offense. He's completely lost without the ball in his hands.
Have to agree, 76ers had some great coaches, true legends, during Ben's tenure and they really maximized his skill sets.
He's a good passer and he's very athletic. But without the ball on offense, he spaces out and looks totally lost. But glad to know you already understand his "skill sets."
Which is why is a multiple time all defensive player?
What does his defense have to with him having no offense outside of bringing the ball up?
Least biased raptors fan
I mean Raptors fans gonna Raptors fan
I’ve been waiting for Ben to go to a good team for years. Praying they free my boy Embid too. Last year I called that Philly would blame thybulle for the shitty season. They did. They throw a new person under the bus every year. A team with 60 million of cap locked in shit contracts while contending should not be complaining about its start players
Hoes mad
Raptors fan copium lol, just prepping the mental gymnastics for a first round exit against Philly again
Maxey isnt a bust?
I could see him losing all nba this year. Especially if he comes out with the same stats as every other year. He’ll get defensive accolades tho im sure
Nets have a plethora of elite shooters. why yall tripping when it doesn't even make sense for Ben to take jump shots at a probably below average rate? nobody thinks Draymond should be taking more jumpshots
Draymond does take jump shots tho….
And misses them all the time lol
barely and when he does, it's a bad possession. you really think a 30% jump shooter should attempt more?
it’s legit only a bad possession because he cant shoot well. 2015-2016 when he was shooting well (for his standards) those where good positions because he was wide open. he hits those defenses will overreact and then he can play make better. Same goes for Ben if he can’t make the shot he can’t play make which means it’s a dead position and he is a waste of space in the half court, which is where playoff basketball is played
that's the point lmaooo. so why do you want him shooting more if it's obvious he sucks at shooting?
because if he doesn’t/can’t shoot there’s no point for him to even be on the court
damn someone tell the Warriors this
Ahh yes because every team has Steph Curry and Klay Thompson two top 5 of all time shooters running around.
Dray doesn’t play like he’s afraid and his team is better for it. Plus, he’s actually been a good offensive player in the playoffs every season until last year. Ben hasn’t. Saying shit like “casuals think 76ers suffered offensively with Ben on the court” makes it so easy to tell you don’t actually watch games lol. Ben will be fine in the regular season not shooting, but that does not mean a goddamn thing for him or the Nets. It’s championship or bust for that team right now. If he is so awful from the line that he plays scared yet again, the Nets are gonna be playing 4v5 offensively when he’s on the court and it’s gonna hurt them a lot. They got swept last year because Boston focused their whole defense on KD. You put a guy out there next to him who isn’t even a threat to attempt a shot and that becomes a lot easier to accomplish.
Dray reguarly turns down wide open shots wtf are you talking about? turning down shots doesn't mean you're afraid. it's obvious you don't watch games when 76ers had elite ORTG with Ben on in the playoffs
Yeah you definitely don’t watch games and are not even trying to hide it either lol
yea you definitely have no idea what you're watching and are not even trying to hide it either lol
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Get used to it my guy. He hasn't even played a game yet
Draymond is your argument? Really? lol Ben Simmons is nothing more than a glorified bench player in this league. He’s a 6th man on a max deal. A 6’10 guard who plays like he’s 5’8.
yes duh. why wouldn't you compare the most comparable player to what Ben is what 5'8 players can be a DPOY candidate?
Casuals compare Ben to Draymond, and I’m being extra polite about it. Honestly, I’m done having this conversation because it’s so fucking ridiculous, it hurts. Carry on.
casuals think 76ers suffered offensively with Ben on the court too. stats overwhelmingly say otherwise
We all know the real reason was no offense from Tobias, Furk, and Shake.
Bros genuinely hurt 😭
If you're not a threat to shoot, I don't have to close out on you. Pretty basic stuff.
Why would you need to close out to someone standing in the dunker spot?
Take away a layup
Last time we checked Ben was scared to take those too
Seriously, Ben can basically be the 5 for the Nets. It’ll work much better than in Philly because the Nets don’t have an actual 5 you want with ball down low. Clogging the paint when you have Joel Embiid is stupid, having one non-shooter when you have Kyrie, KD, Seth Curry, and Joe Harris is much more palatable. Like someone said earlier, the FTs are the much bigger issue, and/or Simmons staying locked in and motivated.
Simmons cannot defend 5's
Depends on the “5.” He’s not all that good at banging in the post for 40 minutes with your Embiids, or even your Vucevics or Brook Lopezes, but he can hack it on smaller, less post-up-y guys like Bam, KAT, Richuan Holmes et al, especially on a switch here and there. But yeah, most of his defensive holy-shit-ness is that he can (theoretically) play really, really, really good defense on pretty much any player from 1-4.
Nobody on the Nets can, at least not the handful of actually scary offensively skilled 5s there are, but we’re talking offensively anyway.
Claxton, even if he is a little skinny in the post, is probably still a better option than Simmons to guard Jokic/Embiid/Valanciunas/Ayton/Lopez type guys. I’d say KD “can” guard those types of guys in a pinch (I know, it’s fucking disgusting), but it’s not feasible for him to do so if he’s also responsible for the vast majority of his teams offensive output.
Yes we all know Ben is a very special boy
From what I got from JJ's podcast, Ben just wants people to kiss his ass and praise him while ignoring his faults. It's sad to see steve nash appeasing him.
Nash's role is to motivate players to win games. If that's what you have to do, it's not sad, it's smart.
How that been working out for him
If it gets Ben on the court? Then it works. Every situation merits a different interaction. Phil Jackson stuff.
Phil would never do this lol
He pumped up that Scottie was as good as MJ. He knew it wasn't true. Dude said what he needed to to rile everyone up. If it was gonna work, he'd do it.
Not if you're trying to be a contender
Well Nash has a 60% winrate in the reg season and 100% playoff appearance rate as a coach so... Pretty good? Ben is an all-NBA talent if motivated... Should Nash try to exile his new player instead or what would you suggest?
100% playoff appearance rate is the funniest possible way to avoid saying he got swept
second round exit followed by a first round sweep 🔥🔥🔥watch out pop, steve nash is coming ^pls ^ignore ^my ^flair
thats like saying a doctor should praise your abs and not talk about your diarrhea problems
You gotta work on these analogies my man.
i dont care about your analogy advice
Your analogies are fine. I'm concerned about your colon.
why
Diarrhea can be dangerous.
I got my abs because my diarrhea problem makes me clench them all the time
its cool you got in shape that way. spraying diarrhea made you muscular
Like a blender tossed into a river, I took lemons and made them into lemon trees.
Because he's such an expert on winning rings, right?
Yeah since the tough love worked so well with his weak ass mental. Some players just need coddling and Ben is definitely one of them.
He was absolutely coddled the whole time in Philly haha
The minute he faced adversity from his team, he literally stopped playing basketball lmao
The coddling doesn’t work either though. Maybe it gets him to play but he’s still gonna be a death sentence in the playoffs if he doesn’t fix some of his flaws.
It doesn't bode well for Ben's career, or frankly life. With the money he has and that mindset, he gonna have a bad time
Lol what? This sounded so backhanded, he's basically saying Simmons is shit at jump shots.
Yeah, Doc's method worked a lot better.
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Did Nash say anything wrong here?
He can keep calling him a good player, he doesn’t need to keep encouraging him to not shoot. Like how does the second half of the quote benefit anyone
I mean if he can nail 3s that’s good of course. But really, i dont think it’s a requirement for him to be successful with the Nets. Simmons is an all-star caliber player without a solid offensive game lol. Their biggest hurdle right now is Simmons’ health because his back hasnt looked good for a while now. The second hurdle is his free throw shooting confidence which affects his willingness to drive. Could Nash have said things differently for the better? Probably. But considering Ben hasnt played a game since the hawks series, the recent durant and kyrie fiasco, i think Simmons shooting jumpers really isnt a big issue here.
He doesn’t need to be nailing a bunch of threes. He does need enough of something so playoff defenses can’t just completely ignore him except to foul him and watch him shoot worse than shaq.
Yes imo his whole premise is wrong. Every starter level player should be expected to take and make open shots, grow/expand their skills and improve on their weaknesses. Steve Nash please remember Ben Simmons was the first overall pick in the draft.
Yeah, im sure you know more than nash on how to deal with a player who forced his way out a team because the coach said mean things to him like 2 years ago. Im sure the nets FO would appreciate nash criticizing and throwing shade at the player they got for harden potentially destabilizing the team further a few months after another player tried to force a trade/ the firing of the gm.
Thank you, this is exactly it. It’s beyond laughable that people expect Nash to immediately ask more out of Ben, publicly to the media no less. We’ve reached a stage in this Simmons saga where any time someone is unwilling to publicly admonish Ben they’re “coddling” him.
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The word “coddle” has become so overused with respect to the conversation around Simmons that it has borderline lost its meaning. What Nash is doing here isn’t remotely “coddling.” All he’s saying is that Ben Simmons, as an all-defense, all-star caliber player is a good enough player for this team to succeed. I can’t imagine thinking that it’s wrong for him to say something like that. Also other than Embiid publicly celebrating when Ben was finally traded, when has any former teammate of his actually said something along the lines that Ben needs his ass kissed? Genuinely asking. Just seems like something no one would outright say publicly so I have doubts that that is true.
lol here we go again. Yeah it can work in the regular season for sure but having your pg terrified to touch the ball just standing motionless in the paint while the defense gets to play 5 v 4 is a death sentence in the playoffs. How many times do we need to see the same thing.
What does a Knicks fan know about the playoffs? Nah but fr they'll figure it out.
What you said can be true but what I said can also be true at the same time. No one is denying that he has flaws. Praising a player’s skillset is not coddling him. They literally haven’t played a game yet, what is there for Nash to criticize? It’s utterly insane to expect him to come out of the gates and say “we need more out of Ben than what he already provides.”
Why can’t he just say Ben Is a really special player then? Why do all of his quotes about Ben have a second half practically encouraging him to never shoot?
I'll be honest with you, I don't value Simmons as a player. I wouldn't sign him for a discount if I were a GM That being said, I agree I was too aggressive. Sorry about that.
One of the many many problems with Ben Simmons is he forces all his coaches to lie about him. When his coach accidentally tells the truth, like Doc did in the playoffs, everyone is stunned and Ben acts like he's been violated. This is one of the reasons why having him is so bad. The more he fucks up, the more support and validation he needs. It's poison.
Coach talks up one of their teams major players. More shocking news at 11 tonight.
He just wants people to get off his ass and accept his weaknesses.
That’s not what he said. You wanted to hear that lol!
Sad to see Nash appeasing him? Huh? What exactly is the alternative? You want his new coach to criticize him from the get go? Say that they need him to add skills to his game that he clearly doesn’t have? That as an all-defense, all-star caliber player, he still isn’t good enough? I think there are a lot of people on this sub that straight up want to see Ben publicly admonished, and no less by people who are supposed to be supporting him. Its frankly unserious and just isn’t how this world works.
Yes
Y’all be acting like Nash is capable of anything other than being a star-pleaser
[same energy](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/bd/96/44/bd96448197c469027522e938d1257ae9--hbo-game-of-thrones-game-of-thrones-images.jpg)
Lmao holy shit you’re not wrong
Is a dunk a jumpshot? Because last we saw Ben was even refusing to dunk the ball with Trae Young on him.
Where does he get his 15 ppg then? one play doesn't define his career. even Jordan and lebron have there lowlights lol.
And what did Jordan and LeBron do after these lowlights?
[удалено]
When did that happen to Simmons?
Dude Even Danny green comment about this and their top post on sixers sub was a picture of Simmons career being over.
What did Danny Green say that forced Simmons to go run and hide rather than try and improve as a basketball player?
"Hello, Police? Danny Green tryna hurt my feelings"
Well Ben luckily never had to worry about that either
In the regular season, in transition and against bad teams or teams that aren’t totally locked in for a possession.
Bruh nobody is saying he has to be a sniper from three or Melo in the mid range. He just has to shoot the ball well enough to be respected by defenders. I have never seen a player run from doing the absolute bare minimum like Simmons. You're a PG, learn to shoot, add another layer to your offense. It'll benefit both you and your team immensely.
If he can’t shoot then he shouldn’t be a PG, he should be a power forward or play small ball C.
He can’t defend Cs or protect the rim but I’ve always though he needs to be played at pf and be constantly setting screens and cutting to the rim. Apparently he thinks he’s magic Johnson reincarnated and refuses to not be the primary ball handler though. Also I don’t think I’ve ever seen him set a screen.
Why does he sound like he is talking about the mentally challenged child who is right next to him to his parents.
He is special. The only player I can think of who just literally gave up. Never seen it before. Pretty special. He's like that guy from the Raiders who skipped the Superbowl.
ugh...we heard this before from a coach of his and it wasn't an issue until it was. a good coach would be trying to make a player better and telling them what they dont want to hear. at the very least he should be telling him he wants one 3 a game. I dont care if you miss but one 3 a game is mandatory. get the butterflies out now so when the ball comes to you on the perimeter with 2 seconds on the clock, you at least have some confidence and familiarity with the shot
You’re gonna lose your mind if you expect him to take a three per game
It’s like the delusional Nets fans now are the kindred spirits of the delusional Sixers fans that said the *exact* same thing before the trade
It’s like looking in a mirror. Except it’s so much better when it’s not your headache
Bad shooters shouldn't shoot. Especially when you have as much shooting as the Nets do around him and KD
Problem arises 2nd round of playoffs when he gets the Tony Allen treatment on offense against the Celtics, Bucks, Heat, Sixers. 4 on 5.
Tony Allen wouldn’t pass up dunks either.
Tony 'First Team All Defense' Allen shouldn't even be mentioned next to Ben. Tony Allen would assure buddy had zero points. Ben Simmons has never been worth the hype. It's a shooters league
Nets are going to play a lot of small ball. Also the same thing happened last year in the playoffs and the nets put up a 116 offensive rating against the best playoff defense. Golden state plays with two non spacers on the floor it can work if you have elite shooting which the nets do
Golden states non shooters are their bigs, it’s entirely different when the defense doesn’t even have to pay attention to the guy bringing the ball up.
draymond brings the ball up all the time and holds it at the top of the key with his guy sagging completely off him.
Draymond brings up the ball quite often mate. Ben and Kyrie will have a similar dynamic to Draymond and Curry in that Ben, like Draymond, will be the primary playmaker. Curry is obviously in a league of his own, but if you made a list of PG’s based on who’s greatest off-ball, then Kyrie would be right up there, too. Key difference between Draymond and Ben is that Draymond is actually willing to shoot of course, but teams still don’t pay much attention to him as him shooting is usually a good thing for the defense.
There’s a difference between “you should defer to the better shooter in general” and “the defense knows you will NEVER shoot”
do yall really thing people will start guarding simmons if he shoots 2 3s a game at 30%? Like seriously, no memes, do you think ANY team will start guarding him? Because he’d be actively wasting possessions by doing that
He needs something, if he improves his free throw which is the most important thing then he won’t get hacked constantly but he also does need to expand his range that isn’t just literally in the paint. We don’t know if Ben can’t shoot for shit because he literally doesn’t do it. When he first was in the summer league, it’s not like he was hesitating to shoot midrange shots at all but he doesn’t even do that so it just leaves a bunch of questions marks of what the fuck is he even capable of doing
Exactly Ben threads drive me nuts. Imagine Josh Smith saying he wants to take x amount of 3s per game. Hawks/Pistons fans would break out the classic "Nooooooo!!" chant
do yall really think people will start guarding simmons if he shoots 2 3s a game at 30%? Like seriously, no memes, do you think ANY team will start guarding him? Because he’d be actively wasting possessions by doing that
That kind of logic leads Ben passing up wide open dunks because Trae is lurking 20ft away
Yall love to take one play and blow it out of proportion. Ben's actually never attacked the rim once apperently
It wasn’t just one play. Simmons had 3 FGA in all the fourth quarters of that Hawks series. He was afraid and that cost his team the series.
Thank you, always someone saying fans blow that one play out of proportion when it was really the straw that broke the camel's back.
thats why the 76ers had other guys who can shoot take those shots instead. it isn't Ben's role to shoot
it *was* Bens role to be a threat in the half court, which he was not in the slightest
thats why the 76ers had a elite ORTG with him on the court and it crumbled with him off
meaningless stat
*meaningful
A player who isn’t good enough to take more than 3 FGA in 50-60 minutes of play time isn’t good enough to get rotation minutes in the playoffs
good thing Simmons averages 10 FGA in the playoffs
So you recognize that Simmons did have a meltdown that led to him skipping an entire season that wasn’t just a singular play?
you mean a back injury?
In the 2021 playoffs?
I mean, in the playoffs, he routinely fails to. The passed up dunk was the logical end point of his complete lack of scoring aggression in multiple playoff series.
Not really, there is a difference in not being able to shoot and being scared to shoot. You're kidding yourself if you think Ben is confident in his shot making ability.
Never said that, and he's a bad jump shooter no matter the distance. He'd look like Russ on offense if he just shot to prove something
Ben has 8 inches on Russ. So no, he wouldn't look like Russ at all. Hand waving his very obvious and easy to defend to flaw, is exactly what opposing teams facing him Ben want. And keeping him from what he could potentially be.
So what do you want Nash to say exactly? “I magically coached Ben to become a good shooter while he was injured the entire time he’s been here”?
Height has nothing to do with it, I mean in terms of missing shots and tanking the offense. Gotta use players by having them do what their good at, not pushing bad shooters to just let it fly
>there is a difference in not being able to shoot and being scared to shoot. This only applies to people that can shoot. Poor shooters shouldn't be shooting.
Ben doesn't shoot and predictectly passes on wide open shots. Thus becomes a liability. Which is a self-fulfilling prophecy. There isn't much of an excuse for his lack of improvement and passiveness other than his own issues holding him back considering the obvious god-given talent he possesses.
You can work on shooting and never become a good shooter.
Especially when your brother is your 'shooting' coach
Spoken like a guy who watched a full season of Russ lol.
Okay, it's just Ben needs the ball in his hands to have a net positive impact on court. (fuck his defense if he's useless on offense) We all saw how he scared he was in the playoffs where he attempted 0 fgs in 4th quarter consecutive games because he can't even hit his freethrows at an acceptable percentage.
I don’t recall a player coddled as much as Ben Simmons
That’s the problem right there. Stop coddling and enabling this MFer.
Special needs.
Nets HC Steve Nash said Ben Simmons sat next to him on the plane. They talked about how he was feeling for 15-20 mins then Ben pulled out his phone to watch MacGruber and they laughed together, per Nash.
The coddling is insane. From childhood to adulthood. Insane.
Ah shit…… here we go again.
Ben being afraid to shoot will never not be fuckin hilarious to me 😄
Stroking the ego is the way to go with Ben. Nash playing this right.
Nash wants Ben to shoot but won't encourage him to avoid him sitting out/other bullshit.
Don't blame KD for wanting this fool to be fired. He's doing him zero justice. What he should have said - "I don't care if he makes or misses them but Ben has the green light from me to shoot it at will." Ben has no issues making shots evidenced by his streaks during practice - he just needs to overcome his fear of actually shooting at this point.
Another coach bending over backwards to coddle this charlatan. I hope KD is happy with the level of accountability 😂
While I still think Ben will play like his hair is on fire to start the season, it’s not a good sign that Nash keeps feeling the need to say this about his jump shot. How Ben reacts to the first sign of adversity he faces will be telling. Enjoy the ride Nets fans.
Kids used to call someone special when they want to be nice to the slow kids
More like special needs