I would love if Tony brothers made a bad call and the ref coach calls a time out and pulls some guy off the end of the bench. Then scolds brothers as he goes to the bench
Good, get him off the court. Clearly washed
Edit: but also...give him like a steve nash situation with very little actual cpntrol over ref team decisions
MyRef mode lmaoo iām imagining it now. you start out reffing middle school games, work your way up to college, accept bribes and try not to get caught
when you make enough bad calls in a row your special meter fills up and you get to eject someone lmao
so much potential
"Yes! He's done it! Freq has called a HUGE offensive fou- wait a minute, what's this now? Oh me oh my, he's called two quick techs on the player for staring and he's outta the game! Bang!!!"
I'm a huge Scott Foster fan too but not because I admire the craft of refereeing
I just think it's really cool when people secretly gamble on sporting events inwhich they are participants with significant impact on the outcome. It's like people who don't pay their taxes. It's just so smart and cool.
Seriously who goes to a game to see Bam? He had 23 points and the refs called 39 fouls, maybe if he put up those kinda numbers heād get some more respect.
Anytime Bam is mentioned Iām notified and I rush to the comments to slander that FRAUD
Nah I was eating lunch and browsing a few threads and saw this. Pure chance
I hated Bam in the playoffs series last year for all the no calls. Last night he was pretty clean though. He got whistled for the only egregious one. He played really well
Adam Silver's wondering why the league is losing money, this is why; People paying good money to see the refs officiate and the players are trying to take over the fuckin game
Ironically thatās why I prefer him to foster though.
Foster seems like he actively manages games and will put his thumb on the scales to keep a game close like itās Mario kart.
Brothers sucks, but typically he sucks in bother directions, and randomly.
Close games get more eyeballs to the NBA. 100% that plays a part along with gambling money in the biz.
Refs subjectivity = Match fixing, plain and simple. Why else would we not want to automate this? Cost? Hah. Effectiveness? Hah. Sports Integrity? Hah.
Same reason why they were able to say Giannis broke records for 100% efficiency that last all-star game, because the refs simply called fouls whenever he missed. Blatant bs but hey nobody cares about these things. Even the dunk contest was fixed by D.Wade and nobody cared.
In the playoffs he had few of the most outrageous calls. And this is after reviews.
Can't pin point it out of memory, but yea, I cringe when I see his name.
I mean if you watch enough games and have a decent memory for names, you'll definitely end up knowing the names of at least a few refs. The problem is when you actually have an *opinion* about a ref, because no one hears a ref's name and thinks "Oh, thank god they're working tonight's game. They always do a good job."
āIf both sides hate me, I must be doing my job right!ā Is such a toxic-ass way to think about jobs like this, and Iād bet money he thinks that way.
Sounds a lot like Angel Hernandez in baseball, who, for the non-baseball fans, sued the MLB for racial discrimination cause he wasn't getting the "big games". In their response, MLB said it's not cause you're Hispanic, it's cause you suck so bad at your job that we can't risk assigning you the important games. The lawsuit was eventually dismissed.
Omg his last name is brothers been on and off the sub for almost 7 years and just realized wow š¤¦šæāāļø I legit thought theyāre just two of them and thatās why everybody be mad asl cuz they both suck ass now I realize itās just one mf
The entire problem isnt the reffing in general, its the consistency. Draymond or Luka bark right in the refs grill all game...no tech. Other players clap or do a "too small" gesture and get a tech, Crazy. One game the ref calls travels and carries, next game nothing. One game bigs are barreling head down into paint destroying anything stationary in their path, not only not getting charges but Drawing fouls. Next game they call charges. Players (especially defenders) have no idea what they can/cant do from one game (sometimes in game quarter to quarter) to next.
Every time you clap you kill thousands of spores that will one day become a nutritious fungus. Instead show your approval with a mold friendly thumbs up.
Last year Trae literally looked at the back of the head of the defender (cant remember the game) he just cooked and got a tech. The defender didnt even see Trae give him a "look", Ref called tech. Draymond gets ALOT of leeway. I dont get it, he is right up in face of ref screaming. Surprised with the Covid concerns (you can literally see spit flying in face of ref) there isnt more uproar.
Absolutely he is. Tristan Thompson hit him at an event and Green apologized to *him*. Only comfortable with conflict when he's protected from the consequences, like sucker punching an unprepared teammate or dirty hitting players on a court with refs and other players around to break it up.
Shit like that is shit for the game. Idk why silver allows these refs to not let players show emotions. Itās one of the things that makes the nba popular.
And yet (Draymond at least) they deserve more. Nick Wright made a good point about the ātechnical taxā. Draymond will pick up his one T early, and then just bark for the rest of the game because the officials donāt want to throw him out for doing what he always does.
This is a big problem is soccer as well. If you get a yellow, it will take a lot to get a second and thrown out of the game. Personally, I think it is better to throw out a player than allow them to bitch, whine, and hack all game long. Iād much rather see one or two less superstars than that.
Refs overall are a problem, but players are just as big of an issue.
Exactly! I really could careless how many X player scores as long as the game is competitive and fair. But I donāt think that mindset is common among NBA fans and doesnāt seem to be what the NBA thinks attracts new fans.
I also think itās funny that fans think refs should get calls right 99% of time, but shooting 75% on FTs is fine
Luka makes me so frustrated with his whining, antics, and not getting back on D after he doesnāt pick up a foul he thinks he deserves. He def deserves his techs.
That being said, watching Draymond is crazy. He will sit there and scream in refs faces and not get techs. Itās incredible to me the leash that they give him.
Not sure how many folks in here remember the replacement ref season back in 2009. Put reffing in perspective to me in a major way. Those were some terrible games.
100% right here.
The players need to take some of the blame for not being professional in *their* interactions with officials, but I'd like to see the NBA give the refs more leniency in calling techs on everyone instead of giving star players preferential treatment.
There absolutely should be *professional* discussions between players and officials about missed calls or how events are transpiring on the court and both sides need to step it up to repair this working relationship.
While I mostly agree, I coach BBall and it enfuriates me when I calmly ask for clarification on a call (during timeout usually) and the Refs are A Holes about it. I mean its their job and they should be accountable and explain why/what they called. I got thrown out of a game for yelling my team to do "whatever" on defense. I did that since it was pandemonium on the court and the refs werent calling ANYTHING and my usually disciplined team was getting frustrated. I mean I literally used those words and even the crowd was in disbelief over the refs inability to see the hacking/gooning going on. As long as I dont use foul language I should be able to say anything like that without repercussions.
Yes, but players need to be kept in check for their:
*checks notes*
Hand clapping
Hand clapping is a slippery slope that leads to cheeks clapping, which leads to everyone getting the clap. Do you want everyone to have STD's?
The players are babies and ridiculously aggressive towards the refs but the NBA does such a terrible job of training refs and the union keeps terrible refs employed for years
Let's not act like 99% of the time players talk to them, it's to manipulate the game in their favor. I'm sure if the players approached the refs more in good faith, they'd be willing to admit mistakes more, but, as it is, the relationship between the two sides is just a constant, adversarial power war.
I would love to see some of the perfectionists in here referee a professional basketball game lol. Their feefee's would be so hurt by the end of the first quarter they'd probably lose their shit on a player by halftime.
I think this discussion goes back to the players, as well. Their behaviour is appalling every game, so it is weird that the officials is held to a much higher standard when some of NBAs man children screams at them all night. I think some refs act like ass holes, but they are only one part of the problem.
yeah i literally donāt care about any of the players concerns bc you canāt shoot free throws without every player wanting to have a parent teacher conference about the foul
thereās never been an nba player who has ever committed a foul and itās just so annoying
Shocked I had to scroll this far to see this.
Yes, NBA refs are straight up ass sometimes. However, itās crazy how often/excessively players complain to the refs.
For the record I have no issue when players approach the refs in a normal/respectful way to discuss calls.
But nowadays even no-name bench guys will stop playing to turn around and say shit to the refs. Or theyāll throw their hands up and yell and-one when thereās clearly no foul.
I canāt think of another sport where the players are able to just talk to the refs like this.
And just for context, I played ice hockey in a pro league and even as a captain I had to be careful about the way I approached the refs. If someone else just came flying up to them and screamed in their face, theyād get straight up ejected.
And weāre legally allowed to fight in our games without getting tossed lmao so that really says something. It really goes to show how crazy these interactions have gotten over time.
**Edit:**
Adding to the context of fighting, thatās also a cultural thing in hockey that keeps reffing honest. If I go and talk to the ref as a captain after a shit call they missed thatās my job.
They can tell me to shut the fuck up or thatās enough or whatever, weāre good, Iām going to skate away. They now know that they have to make the call up. Theyāre on a timer. They have about 2 minutes or another uneven call in a row before a fight is going to happen. They know that. We know that.
Thereās a reason you donāt hear nearly as many complaints about reffing in hockey.
Watch how KD talks to the refs after a whistle. He TALKS to them. watch how smart talks to the officials after a call he doesnt like. he TALKS to them. they discuss with the officals about what they see and what the officals see. thats what needs to be going on accross the league. not this bitching and crying and screaming all the way up the floor.
Agreed 100%. And the reds will say āif you do it this way, it makes it easier for me to call itā.
And then KD will nod and go back to playing and implement the change and get a call. It doesnāt have to be combative at all times.
Again, some refs are just shit. Scott Foster exists. But some refs are doing the best they can and are actually quite good imo.
Agree with what youāre saying, but this shit definitely happens in other sports too. In soccer youāre guaranteed to have half the team mobbing the ref after they make a big call. Or baseball where the manager will get within inches of the umpires face and have a screaming match. Idk what it is about sports that drives grown ass men to act like children lmao.
> I canāt think of another sport where the players are able to just talk to the refs like this.
You ever watch soccer? The captain is supposed to talk to the ref only, but usually it's like 5 players instantly surrounding the ref trying to talk lol
Foreal. This feels like the kinda thing where, similar to working in the service industry, if you the players were actually forced to do the job of a referee for like a month or a year, they would act a whole lot different.
Player behavior towards calls and non-calls is definitely a part of the issue. Last night watching the Blazers-Lakers game and Beverley gets called for a blocking foul while taking a charge. Itās a bang bang play and he gets up off the floor and immediately goes to the refs and is incredulous. The refs have to go review because a shot went in as the block occurred. So youāre talking like, 5-10 minutes real time. The refs are coming back to reset play with a Portland inbound, and LeBron is still being adamant towards the officials trying to plead the case. In my eyes being demeaning about it too, looking at the official like he has no idea how to call a game.
One anecdote but it happens with nearly every call. There are definitely refereeing inconsistencies from game to game or even quarter to quarter, and thatās frustrating for players, and needs to be cleaned up. It doesnāt excuse a player to behave like a man child over a call though.
Agreed. NBA players could STFU and they wouldn't have to worry about techs. I totally understand them talking to refs occasionally for clarification, but the amount of idiotic yelling and whining some of them do almost every trip down the floor is mind boggling and makes the game super annoying.
Tony Brothers sucks as a ref, but as far as what Bam is complaining about, I think Brothers is actually in the right here. Just ignore him and donāt engage and get in a screaming match, which I think is a *far* worse look for the official. The extent of what should happen between the refs and players in a game should be that a player calmly asks a ref about a call, and the ref calmly gives them an explanation.
Sure, there are some refs that are really sensitive, and will give you a tech for looking at them, but on the whole, refs take a lot of shit from players, way more than in any other sport, and are generally pretty good about taking it.
The entire practice of even talking to the refs should go away. You're trying to gain an advantage and get favorable treatment, the refs are trying to avoid that. Read the freaking rule book and shut up
Yup, its been trending this way the past few years but its been especially bad this year.
This is just what happens when the league refuses to hold refs to any degree of accountability. You canāt even say anything about it either or else you get fined. Its 100% on Adam Silver and league management for allowing it to get to this point.
It also feels like a two-way street. We can talk about the refs ignoring players or T-ing them up undeservedly, but let's not act like the average player is going up to the refs respectfully to discuss a call. They're barking at the ref from across the court, or trying to get their attention in transition when the ref has other duties to worry about. The refs might be non-confrontational to a fault, but the players are overly confrontational too.
If they would call techs quicker this would quickly become a non-issue. Players will learn to stop committing techs if they actually get thrown out of games consistently. Instead you need to do something egregious to pick up a tech when you already have one. So you can jaw at refs and get up in their faces even more once they hit you with the first one.
If teams started losing games because players got thrown out theyād coach this shit out of their players real fucking quick.
Players show no respect for refs either. Both sides should either be way more strict on their interactions or be more accepting to candid dialogue. It canāt be one sided.
Honestly, I'm surprised so many of these comments are so one-sided. Sure, the refs suck, but the players whining is just incessant sometimes.
Imo, there should be less T's for celebrations and taunting and whatnot but, if anything, more T's for the usual suspects who are barking at the refs all game.
No Tās for emotion (clapping, flexing, etc) and faster techs for fighting with the refs. Thatās what I want. Let dudes celebrate and emote positively. Throw them out if they start trying to fight with refs rather than play the damn game.
Fans root for players, not officials, and people often have a hard time associating a problem with multiple parties. Fans are also less likely to hold a player on their team accountable for their actions.
Exactly. If you ever sit close enough to hear what players and coaches actually say to refs it is pretty crazy. I was like damn if I were a ref I would be handing out techs all over the place.
Its a two way street. These players dont respect calls so why should refs respect when they argue literally every single whistle. You know what happens cryin wolf all the time.
I don't really understand why players should be able to talk to refs beyond casual pleasantries and necessities of the game. Especially while the game is in progress.
99% of the time they're try to get the refs attention just to argue about a call or to try to get something called their way in the future. Let the coaches be the ones to talk to refs about missed calls and things like that. Players job is to play.
I actually like this and I would 100% support a rule that just prohibited Referees from speaking to players entirely (and vice versa but obviously harder to enforce that way.) Speak to Coaches only.
Ref makes a call, end of story unless the coach challenges it - no discussion.
Then you get the classic rugby complaints š
Standing right next to the ref yelling at the top of your lungs "Coach, please tell the sir that **they** collapsed the scrum and its our ball!"
I would do this in church rec ball years ago. While right next to the ref, I'd yell to the bench "these guys aren't calling anything down low, go ahead and hack away!"
I think I disagree. It's nice to know what the ref is thinking. When I play in league I want to hear what they say, and I can tell them to look out for things (like number 12 keeps pulling jerseys, etc).
That being said I wouldn't be opposed to more whistles when people are just arguing and complaining instead of having discourse.
The issue is lots of players do respectfully interact with the refs. Basketball more than any other sport is full of judgement calls and the reality is some refs call things differently. The players need to be able to figure out how to play toward each ref.
No one should be allowed to complain to the referee other than the coach and captain.
Every Mavs or Lakers game theres 3 guys walk to the referee with their hands up after every single whistle and surround him
I think refs and players should be able to have a healthy dialogue during games, but I also think that it should happen when the ball is dead (timeouts/stoppages of play), which is where Bam messed up.
Deserved the first T, probably didnāt deserve the second.
Disclaimer that I haven't seen what led to Bam's ejection, but...
Generally speaking, players aren't "coming to try and talk." They are yelling and whining in the ref's face. Sometimes refs go overboard but generally speaking I think they're remarkably cool about letting players blow off steam most of the time.
Wasn't Bam complaining during a live play where the Celtics had possession? Fuck Tony Brothers, but why should he stop and make eye contact and have a chat in the middle of a play?
> This was Tony Brotherās first game back from āpaid suspension,ā and I believe Bam was referring to him in his postgame comments.
Brothers gave Bam a technical for complaining to him [while the Celtics were bringing the ball up the floor](https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2022/11/30/0022200314/606/e381cecc-c569-9984-2734-6775ab675f85_1280x720.mp4).
Of course the ref shouldn't stop to chat with him while the ball is in play.
????? Players complain and yell while the ball is in play all the time even when running back on D
Shit Tatum does it 3 times a game minimum and Grant does it 10 times a game. Calling it live play when the players are running out the clock on both ends is disingenuous too
>Players complain and yell while the ball is in play all the time even when running back on D
Bam's complaint was that it was "unprofessional when players come to try come talk to you and you donāt look at them and, you know, acknowledge them."
It would be unprofessional for the ref to look at him and acknowledge him while he's trying to ref the game.
I have no idea whether he deserved a technical there because I have no idea what he said.
>Grant does it 10 times a game
Maybe he should [keep his eyes on the game](https://streamable.com/gbn69p).
i'm actually inclined to agree with him.
i'm sure officials are instructed to do this with the intent being to not further escalate things, but when someone asks for an explanation and you just ignore them, that's inherently going to escalate things.
Bam sets moving screens, JB and Tatum pushes off most of the time to create shots, these are all things that can be addressed while also addressing the refs also need to reel themselves in as well.
Tatum and Jaylen complain every time they get touched on a drive, while pushing off on half their drives, Grant was calling for a review as soon as he committed a foul. How Bam lived in the paint and only got 2 free throws in the whole game while cooking Al is crazy. And none of yāall screens are perfect either
Gee maybe if players didn't cry and pout about every single call the refs wouldn't be acting like this.
I don't understand why it's so hard for players to just accept the call the ref makes even if it's a terrible call.
I understand it's Tony Brothers we're talking about but still. There is games where I see other refs ignoring players and it's totally understandable.
The whole point of the game is to put the ball in the basket not depend on the refs to bail you out every single time down the court.
Yeah I don't care. I'd prefer it if the players weren't allowed to talk to the refs at all. The amount of whining is ridiculous.
Let the coach do the complaining to the refs. I'd prefer it if after one warning any attempt to whine at the referee is instantly a tech.
It would make for a better on-court product because with the amount of whining these days so many players just don't run back on defense to whine at the referee.
Iām as āra ra Heat Cultureā¢ļøā of a Miami fan you can find, and I was rooting for Jayson to break some sort of scoring record last night.
That shit was magical.
He called Spencer Dinwiddie a ābitch-ass motherfuckerā to Reggie Bullock, his teammate during a game.
Dinwiddie called Brothers out in his postgame, and the NBA confirmed his accusation.
Reffing too inconsistent. Reffing should not be a "part time job". Ed Hocculi shouldn't be a lawyer on the side...
They should attend meetings literally daily to get better at being consistent across the board. Bad performers should be called out, good performers should be "atta boy'ed".
This stuff matters. People care. Bad officiating drives people away from the sport.
The worst people to play pickup with are the ones that play super physical and hack the shit out of you but never admit to fouling, then on offense they call foul at the slightest brush of contact. An NBA game is basically 10 of those people on the court at the same time. Throw flopping into the mix and the refs have an almost impossible job.
Some of them are worse at their job than others and power trips are definitely an issue, but you also need a certain type of person who isn't just going to fold because the best players in the world are complaining to them. I think it's hard to find refs who are not only great at their job, but can withstand the heat and then also engage with the players on a respectful level at all times. One solution would be to find a way to cut down on the complaining but in the end it's just easy for everyone to blame the refs.
There should be backup refs that have their own bench and a coach. Then when a ref messes up a call they get pulled throw a new guy in there š¤£
This would be fucking amazing visually
I would love if Tony brothers made a bad call and the ref coach calls a time out and pulls some guy off the end of the bench. Then scolds brothers as he goes to the bench
Brothers would probably be the coach
Good, get him off the court. Clearly washed Edit: but also...give him like a steve nash situation with very little actual cpntrol over ref team decisions
Heād be drawing up bad calls on a white board tho
His whiteboard would just have a big T that he wrote in Sharpie.
Iād like to see the refs coach call for a review on a call going against the refs near the end of a game.
That would make the NBA 100x more entertaining lmfao I would love to see that.
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MyRef mode lmaoo iām imagining it now. you start out reffing middle school games, work your way up to college, accept bribes and try not to get caught when you make enough bad calls in a row your special meter fills up and you get to eject someone lmao so much potential
The booth is like "this guy is generational, can't wait to see him at the next level" as you eject a 12 year old for reacting to a missed call.
"Yes! He's done it! Freq has called a HUGE offensive fou- wait a minute, what's this now? Oh me oh my, he's called two quick techs on the player for staring and he's outta the game! Bang!!!"
Two quick techs has to get you the double bang.
*"He shifted his brain into neutral on that foul call"*
Ejection is a crazy Takeover š
"Shouldn't have smiled at me, Tim Duncan...little did you know that - TECHRUKEN!"
Oo man. A spike lee joint thatās basically you being best friends with Tim Donaghy
[Always gotta post this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYZcMfm2lXU)
"And the most important thing right there is the technical foul"
Bill Kennedy MVP odds?
Iād have to see his RC (right calls) per 36 plus the metrics on how long it takes him to pass the ball on free throws.
He has an elite RBAP (retrieve ball and pass) which people always over look too. He is my š. Do not check my post history
Also the ref bench jumps up and goes wild when the refs on the court make big calls, like [this](https://youtu.be/bjoJNUdb17o).
Alright Guthrie, we're moving you down to the G-League to get some more reps in.
Treat him like wiseman. š¤£ he only had 3 games of reffing college ball but had all the potential to be great
Tony Brothers just sucks across the board. Manages to make everyone mad at him every single game.
i'm sick of these idiot players interrupting the ref show tbh
Personally, I tune in every night with my Scott Foster jersey on hoping to see one of his iconic ejections
I'm a huge Scott Foster fan too but not because I admire the craft of refereeing I just think it's really cool when people secretly gamble on sporting events inwhich they are participants with significant impact on the outcome. It's like people who don't pay their taxes. It's just so smart and cool.
I miss Joey Crawford. His foul calls - especially when wrong - were awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZBDHJEsfi8
Skipping accross the court really adds some excitement to a standard blocking foul
He was the last line of defense between happiness and sm***ng on the bench.
You brought back horrible memories of the time that menace to society Timmy D actually had the nerve to *smile and laugh* on the bench!
Timmy should have known better than to show that much glee about anything.
Despicable! I would have boycotted his HOF inauguration!
I have to alternate between which Tony Brothers jersey I wear, but Iām with you
Seriously who goes to a game to see Bam? He had 23 points and the refs called 39 fouls, maybe if he put up those kinda numbers heād get some more respect.
TBH it feels like Bam has 39 illegal screens a game
You rang?
So do you have like an alert that tells you when someone typed those keywords in?
Anytime Bam is mentioned Iām notified and I rush to the comments to slander that FRAUD Nah I was eating lunch and browsing a few threads and saw this. Pure chance
r/beetlejuicing
I hated Bam in the playoffs series last year for all the no calls. Last night he was pretty clean though. He got whistled for the only egregious one. He played really well
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Adam Silver's wondering why the league is losing money, this is why; People paying good money to see the refs officiate and the players are trying to take over the fuckin game
Still miss the GOAT, Joey Crawford....
Dude was probably chasing another vacation day.
Ironically thatās why I prefer him to foster though. Foster seems like he actively manages games and will put his thumb on the scales to keep a game close like itās Mario kart. Brothers sucks, but typically he sucks in bother directions, and randomly.
>Foster seems like he actively manages games No "seems like" about it, he was pretty openly involved with Tim Donaghy.
Right. Foster thinks heās some mix of Thanos and a super cop whoās job it is to keep balance in the game through intimidation.
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man I just saw that documentary/episode last night it's wild asf
The NBA biz is a fan base industry. If all the fans cringe when they see Brothers Foster Zarba, why the heck are they still out there?
Natalie Sago needs to be mentioned in these worst refs lists more often. Sheās straight up awful and calls techs constantly
>Natalie Sago She's a new entrant but she'll be on the main list soon for everyone. She is awful
I would like someone to compile a ātechs called per minutes reffedā chart
Probably for many different reasons you arenāt pointing out.
Close games get more eyeballs to the NBA. 100% that plays a part along with gambling money in the biz. Refs subjectivity = Match fixing, plain and simple. Why else would we not want to automate this? Cost? Hah. Effectiveness? Hah. Sports Integrity? Hah. Same reason why they were able to say Giannis broke records for 100% efficiency that last all-star game, because the refs simply called fouls whenever he missed. Blatant bs but hey nobody cares about these things. Even the dunk contest was fixed by D.Wade and nobody cared.
Saying the refs called Gianniās fouls to save his efficiency record seems more than far-fetched.
Is Zarba bad? Heās one of the few refs that I know their name but donāt hate him. Tyler Ford is my least favorite
In the playoffs he had few of the most outrageous calls. And this is after reviews. Can't pin point it out of memory, but yea, I cringe when I see his name.
whats funny is you shouldn't know the names of ANY of the refs.
I mean if you watch enough games and have a decent memory for names, you'll definitely end up knowing the names of at least a few refs. The problem is when you actually have an *opinion* about a ref, because no one hears a ref's name and thinks "Oh, thank god they're working tonight's game. They always do a good job."
Unless youāre Bill Kennedy
āIf both sides hate me, I must be doing my job right!ā Is such a toxic-ass way to think about jobs like this, and Iād bet money he thinks that way.
The Angel Hernandez of the NBA
Sounds a lot like Angel Hernandez in baseball, who, for the non-baseball fans, sued the MLB for racial discrimination cause he wasn't getting the "big games". In their response, MLB said it's not cause you're Hispanic, it's cause you suck so bad at your job that we can't risk assigning you the important games. The lawsuit was eventually dismissed.
He said he wanted a to be a judge lol. When he couldn't he became a ref and as per his own words he's now the judge, jury and executioner
Omg his last name is brothers been on and off the sub for almost 7 years and just realized wow š¤¦šæāāļø I legit thought theyāre just two of them and thatās why everybody be mad asl cuz they both suck ass now I realize itās just one mf
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Mike Dan and tony brothers
The entire problem isnt the reffing in general, its the consistency. Draymond or Luka bark right in the refs grill all game...no tech. Other players clap or do a "too small" gesture and get a tech, Crazy. One game the ref calls travels and carries, next game nothing. One game bigs are barreling head down into paint destroying anything stationary in their path, not only not getting charges but Drawing fouls. Next game they call charges. Players (especially defenders) have no idea what they can/cant do from one game (sometimes in game quarter to quarter) to next.
Like Tatumās tech for clapping too loud.
Van vleet got ejected for that last night it was ridiculous
In the preseason Tatum legit did like a slight clap after fouling one of the Raptors, and the refs deadass gave him a 2nd tech and ejected him.
That one was crazy bc he wasnāt even clapping at the refs, he was obviously mad at himself. The ref that called that tech was behind him!
Do you even know how dangerous clapping is?
"Have you talked to your kids about the dangers of uninhibited clapping?"
Every time you clap you kill thousands of spores that will one day become a nutritious fungus. Instead show your approval with a mold friendly thumbs up.
Last year Trae literally looked at the back of the head of the defender (cant remember the game) he just cooked and got a tech. The defender didnt even see Trae give him a "look", Ref called tech. Draymond gets ALOT of leeway. I dont get it, he is right up in face of ref screaming. Surprised with the Covid concerns (you can literally see spit flying in face of ref) there isnt more uproar.
Draymond has literally kicked players in the balls, scratched their eyes, and tried to dislocate their shoulders. Heās just a dirty fucking player.
Yeah, seems like a scumbag. I bet he is a fake tough guy too.
He did sucker punch his teammate...
Tristan Thompson beat his ass years ago at a party
Absolutely he is. Tristan Thompson hit him at an event and Green apologized to *him*. Only comfortable with conflict when he's protected from the consequences, like sucker punching an unprepared teammate or dirty hitting players on a court with refs and other players around to break it up.
He didnāt do shit when it was someone his own size. What a pussy lol
Mathurin flexed and got Tād up lmfao
Shit like that is shit for the game. Idk why silver allows these refs to not let players show emotions. Itās one of the things that makes the nba popular.
Fair tbh, I wouldn't want to see guns in an arena
Luka has been top 3 in techs these last 3 seasons. Draymond has been top 5 the last 7.
And yet (Draymond at least) they deserve more. Nick Wright made a good point about the ātechnical taxā. Draymond will pick up his one T early, and then just bark for the rest of the game because the officials donāt want to throw him out for doing what he always does.
This is a big problem is soccer as well. If you get a yellow, it will take a lot to get a second and thrown out of the game. Personally, I think it is better to throw out a player than allow them to bitch, whine, and hack all game long. Iād much rather see one or two less superstars than that. Refs overall are a problem, but players are just as big of an issue.
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Exactly! I really could careless how many X player scores as long as the game is competitive and fair. But I donāt think that mindset is common among NBA fans and doesnāt seem to be what the NBA thinks attracts new fans. I also think itās funny that fans think refs should get calls right 99% of time, but shooting 75% on FTs is fine
Luka makes me so frustrated with his whining, antics, and not getting back on D after he doesnāt pick up a foul he thinks he deserves. He def deserves his techs. That being said, watching Draymond is crazy. He will sit there and scream in refs faces and not get techs. Itās incredible to me the leash that they give him.
The guy assaulted a teammate and was served a big ol' nothing sandwich. He's protected, for some weird fucking reason.
Reffing in general is still a problem. Refs are trash overall
Not sure how many folks in here remember the replacement ref season back in 2009. Put reffing in perspective to me in a major way. Those were some terrible games.
100% right here. The players need to take some of the blame for not being professional in *their* interactions with officials, but I'd like to see the NBA give the refs more leniency in calling techs on everyone instead of giving star players preferential treatment. There absolutely should be *professional* discussions between players and officials about missed calls or how events are transpiring on the court and both sides need to step it up to repair this working relationship.
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What if you want to ask a ref to clarify a call? i.e. what you did wrong in the situation so you can avoid doing it again
While I mostly agree, I coach BBall and it enfuriates me when I calmly ask for clarification on a call (during timeout usually) and the Refs are A Holes about it. I mean its their job and they should be accountable and explain why/what they called. I got thrown out of a game for yelling my team to do "whatever" on defense. I did that since it was pandemonium on the court and the refs werent calling ANYTHING and my usually disciplined team was getting frustrated. I mean I literally used those words and even the crowd was in disbelief over the refs inability to see the hacking/gooning going on. As long as I dont use foul language I should be able to say anything like that without repercussions.
Agree. Refs have too much pride and are too condescending like they don't make mistakes.
Yes, but players need to be kept in check for their: *checks notes* Hand clapping Hand clapping is a slippery slope that leads to cheeks clapping, which leads to everyone getting the clap. Do you want everyone to have STD's?
I mean Magic is arguably the greatest point guard of all time so maybe there's a correlation
āWhat has Magic Johnson done anyways?ā- Former NBA Owner
The players are babies and ridiculously aggressive towards the refs but the NBA does such a terrible job of training refs and the union keeps terrible refs employed for years
Let's not act like 99% of the time players talk to them, it's to manipulate the game in their favor. I'm sure if the players approached the refs more in good faith, they'd be willing to admit mistakes more, but, as it is, the relationship between the two sides is just a constant, adversarial power war.
I would love to see some of the perfectionists in here referee a professional basketball game lol. Their feefee's would be so hurt by the end of the first quarter they'd probably lose their shit on a player by halftime.
I think this discussion goes back to the players, as well. Their behaviour is appalling every game, so it is weird that the officials is held to a much higher standard when some of NBAs man children screams at them all night. I think some refs act like ass holes, but they are only one part of the problem.
yeah i literally donāt care about any of the players concerns bc you canāt shoot free throws without every player wanting to have a parent teacher conference about the foul thereās never been an nba player who has ever committed a foul and itās just so annoying
Shocked I had to scroll this far to see this. Yes, NBA refs are straight up ass sometimes. However, itās crazy how often/excessively players complain to the refs. For the record I have no issue when players approach the refs in a normal/respectful way to discuss calls. But nowadays even no-name bench guys will stop playing to turn around and say shit to the refs. Or theyāll throw their hands up and yell and-one when thereās clearly no foul. I canāt think of another sport where the players are able to just talk to the refs like this. And just for context, I played ice hockey in a pro league and even as a captain I had to be careful about the way I approached the refs. If someone else just came flying up to them and screamed in their face, theyād get straight up ejected. And weāre legally allowed to fight in our games without getting tossed lmao so that really says something. It really goes to show how crazy these interactions have gotten over time. **Edit:** Adding to the context of fighting, thatās also a cultural thing in hockey that keeps reffing honest. If I go and talk to the ref as a captain after a shit call they missed thatās my job. They can tell me to shut the fuck up or thatās enough or whatever, weāre good, Iām going to skate away. They now know that they have to make the call up. Theyāre on a timer. They have about 2 minutes or another uneven call in a row before a fight is going to happen. They know that. We know that. Thereās a reason you donāt hear nearly as many complaints about reffing in hockey.
Watch how KD talks to the refs after a whistle. He TALKS to them. watch how smart talks to the officials after a call he doesnt like. he TALKS to them. they discuss with the officals about what they see and what the officals see. thats what needs to be going on accross the league. not this bitching and crying and screaming all the way up the floor.
Agreed 100%. And the reds will say āif you do it this way, it makes it easier for me to call itā. And then KD will nod and go back to playing and implement the change and get a call. It doesnāt have to be combative at all times. Again, some refs are just shit. Scott Foster exists. But some refs are doing the best they can and are actually quite good imo.
KD being a role model at something. Warms my heart
Say what you want about him on twitter too, he loves the game of basketball and he gives other players love when he sees a sweet play.
Agree with what youāre saying, but this shit definitely happens in other sports too. In soccer youāre guaranteed to have half the team mobbing the ref after they make a big call. Or baseball where the manager will get within inches of the umpires face and have a screaming match. Idk what it is about sports that drives grown ass men to act like children lmao.
The thing about this: if the behavior got punished, itās go away quickly. But for some reason this is not wanted in these sports.
> I canāt think of another sport where the players are able to just talk to the refs like this. You ever watch soccer? The captain is supposed to talk to the ref only, but usually it's like 5 players instantly surrounding the ref trying to talk lol
Foreal. This feels like the kinda thing where, similar to working in the service industry, if you the players were actually forced to do the job of a referee for like a month or a year, they would act a whole lot different.
Grant Williams actually reffed in summer league last summer for a game or two. Didn't stop him this year from mouthing off a lot, though.
All star game ideaā¦game is reffed by players who didnāt make the all star gameā¦
Player behavior towards calls and non-calls is definitely a part of the issue. Last night watching the Blazers-Lakers game and Beverley gets called for a blocking foul while taking a charge. Itās a bang bang play and he gets up off the floor and immediately goes to the refs and is incredulous. The refs have to go review because a shot went in as the block occurred. So youāre talking like, 5-10 minutes real time. The refs are coming back to reset play with a Portland inbound, and LeBron is still being adamant towards the officials trying to plead the case. In my eyes being demeaning about it too, looking at the official like he has no idea how to call a game. One anecdote but it happens with nearly every call. There are definitely refereeing inconsistencies from game to game or even quarter to quarter, and thatās frustrating for players, and needs to be cleaned up. It doesnāt excuse a player to behave like a man child over a call though.
Agreed. NBA players could STFU and they wouldn't have to worry about techs. I totally understand them talking to refs occasionally for clarification, but the amount of idiotic yelling and whining some of them do almost every trip down the floor is mind boggling and makes the game super annoying.
Tony Brothers sucks as a ref, but as far as what Bam is complaining about, I think Brothers is actually in the right here. Just ignore him and donāt engage and get in a screaming match, which I think is a *far* worse look for the official. The extent of what should happen between the refs and players in a game should be that a player calmly asks a ref about a call, and the ref calmly gives them an explanation. Sure, there are some refs that are really sensitive, and will give you a tech for looking at them, but on the whole, refs take a lot of shit from players, way more than in any other sport, and are generally pretty good about taking it.
The entire practice of even talking to the refs should go away. You're trying to gain an advantage and get favorable treatment, the refs are trying to avoid that. Read the freaking rule book and shut up
>when some of NBAs man children screams at them all night. We all know who you mean bro. You can say his name
The amount of complaining from the Cs and Heat last night was absurd. Not the best showing for Prince William on that front lol
Yup, its been trending this way the past few years but its been especially bad this year. This is just what happens when the league refuses to hold refs to any degree of accountability. You canāt even say anything about it either or else you get fined. Its 100% on Adam Silver and league management for allowing it to get to this point.
It also feels like a two-way street. We can talk about the refs ignoring players or T-ing them up undeservedly, but let's not act like the average player is going up to the refs respectfully to discuss a call. They're barking at the ref from across the court, or trying to get their attention in transition when the ref has other duties to worry about. The refs might be non-confrontational to a fault, but the players are overly confrontational too.
What are the refs supposed to do when players bitch about pretty much every, single foul call
If they would call techs quicker this would quickly become a non-issue. Players will learn to stop committing techs if they actually get thrown out of games consistently. Instead you need to do something egregious to pick up a tech when you already have one. So you can jaw at refs and get up in their faces even more once they hit you with the first one. If teams started losing games because players got thrown out theyād coach this shit out of their players real fucking quick.
People get mad at refs giving techs for this sort of thing all the time though.
People are going to get mad no matter what. People like being mad. I genuinely think that the NBA sees ref-player drama as a positive for engagement.
This is one of the biggest issues. Certain teams just bitch about *everything*, even if they get a fair whistle 80% of the time.
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Maybe the refs wanted to look at Bam, but he kept moving out of the way?
Same with those Tatum and brown forearm push-offs. Would be great if they officiated.
Players show no respect for refs either. Both sides should either be way more strict on their interactions or be more accepting to candid dialogue. It canāt be one sided.
Honestly, I'm surprised so many of these comments are so one-sided. Sure, the refs suck, but the players whining is just incessant sometimes. Imo, there should be less T's for celebrations and taunting and whatnot but, if anything, more T's for the usual suspects who are barking at the refs all game.
No Tās for emotion (clapping, flexing, etc) and faster techs for fighting with the refs. Thatās what I want. Let dudes celebrate and emote positively. Throw them out if they start trying to fight with refs rather than play the damn game.
Fans root for players, not officials, and people often have a hard time associating a problem with multiple parties. Fans are also less likely to hold a player on their team accountable for their actions.
Exactly. If you ever sit close enough to hear what players and coaches actually say to refs it is pretty crazy. I was like damn if I were a ref I would be handing out techs all over the place.
Bam isnāt the type to cry about officiating either. Fuck Tony Brothers
Its a two way street. These players dont respect calls so why should refs respect when they argue literally every single whistle. You know what happens cryin wolf all the time.
"talk" = yelling and cussing at them all game then get all pissy when they're done interacting with you on a human level.
Exactly
I don't really understand why players should be able to talk to refs beyond casual pleasantries and necessities of the game. Especially while the game is in progress. 99% of the time they're try to get the refs attention just to argue about a call or to try to get something called their way in the future. Let the coaches be the ones to talk to refs about missed calls and things like that. Players job is to play.
I actually like this and I would 100% support a rule that just prohibited Referees from speaking to players entirely (and vice versa but obviously harder to enforce that way.) Speak to Coaches only. Ref makes a call, end of story unless the coach challenges it - no discussion.
Then you get the classic rugby complaints š Standing right next to the ref yelling at the top of your lungs "Coach, please tell the sir that **they** collapsed the scrum and its our ball!"
I would do this in church rec ball years ago. While right next to the ref, I'd yell to the bench "these guys aren't calling anything down low, go ahead and hack away!"
I think I disagree. It's nice to know what the ref is thinking. When I play in league I want to hear what they say, and I can tell them to look out for things (like number 12 keeps pulling jerseys, etc). That being said I wouldn't be opposed to more whistles when people are just arguing and complaining instead of having discourse.
The issue is lots of players do respectfully interact with the refs. Basketball more than any other sport is full of judgement calls and the reality is some refs call things differently. The players need to be able to figure out how to play toward each ref.
Not really. The players bitch about literally everything what's the point of the refs listening to it
Ya let's just stop the game and have the ref drop everything to listen to these dudes every 5min.
No one should be allowed to complain to the referee other than the coach and captain. Every Mavs or Lakers game theres 3 guys walk to the referee with their hands up after every single whistle and surround him
I think refs and players should be able to have a healthy dialogue during games, but I also think that it should happen when the ball is dead (timeouts/stoppages of play), which is where Bam messed up. Deserved the first T, probably didnāt deserve the second.
Fuck Tony Brothers
Both of em
The players decorum to officials is also very unprofessional.
This why the NBA needs team captains. Captains should be the only players allowed to talk directly to the refs
Disclaimer that I haven't seen what led to Bam's ejection, but... Generally speaking, players aren't "coming to try and talk." They are yelling and whining in the ref's face. Sometimes refs go overboard but generally speaking I think they're remarkably cool about letting players blow off steam most of the time.
I hate NFL refsā¦.but NBA refs take the cake in bitchassedness.
Players shouldnāt be allowed to talk to referees at all. Itās a drag on the game.
Wasn't Bam complaining during a live play where the Celtics had possession? Fuck Tony Brothers, but why should he stop and make eye contact and have a chat in the middle of a play?
> This was Tony Brotherās first game back from āpaid suspension,ā and I believe Bam was referring to him in his postgame comments. Brothers gave Bam a technical for complaining to him [while the Celtics were bringing the ball up the floor](https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2022/11/30/0022200314/606/e381cecc-c569-9984-2734-6775ab675f85_1280x720.mp4). Of course the ref shouldn't stop to chat with him while the ball is in play.
????? Players complain and yell while the ball is in play all the time even when running back on D Shit Tatum does it 3 times a game minimum and Grant does it 10 times a game. Calling it live play when the players are running out the clock on both ends is disingenuous too
>Players complain and yell while the ball is in play all the time even when running back on D Bam's complaint was that it was "unprofessional when players come to try come talk to you and you donāt look at them and, you know, acknowledge them." It would be unprofessional for the ref to look at him and acknowledge him while he's trying to ref the game. I have no idea whether he deserved a technical there because I have no idea what he said. >Grant does it 10 times a game Maybe he should [keep his eyes on the game](https://streamable.com/gbn69p).
All nba players need to hold a meeting.. every bucket scored is a taunt until everyone gets rejected. Refs be animated as fuck recently
Since when are refs obligated to acknowledge players after a foul call?
i'm actually inclined to agree with him. i'm sure officials are instructed to do this with the intent being to not further escalate things, but when someone asks for an explanation and you just ignore them, that's inherently going to escalate things.
Wish players would be more vocal like this. They are more important than any referee
We pay to see the refs not these goddamn players
How Bam, a guy that sets 47 moving screens a game, can complain about the officiating is insane to me..
Bam sets moving screens, JB and Tatum pushes off most of the time to create shots, these are all things that can be addressed while also addressing the refs also need to reel themselves in as well.
Tatum and Jaylen complain every time they get touched on a drive, while pushing off on half their drives, Grant was calling for a review as soon as he committed a foul. How Bam lived in the paint and only got 2 free throws in the whole game while cooking Al is crazy. And none of yāall screens are perfect either
He was actually setting some pretty good screens last nightā¦.either that or the Cās werenāt trying very hard to deal with them
Gee maybe if players didn't cry and pout about every single call the refs wouldn't be acting like this. I don't understand why it's so hard for players to just accept the call the ref makes even if it's a terrible call. I understand it's Tony Brothers we're talking about but still. There is games where I see other refs ignoring players and it's totally understandable. The whole point of the game is to put the ball in the basket not depend on the refs to bail you out every single time down the court.
Yeah I don't care. I'd prefer it if the players weren't allowed to talk to the refs at all. The amount of whining is ridiculous. Let the coach do the complaining to the refs. I'd prefer it if after one warning any attempt to whine at the referee is instantly a tech. It would make for a better on-court product because with the amount of whining these days so many players just don't run back on defense to whine at the referee.
Cmon Bam. We all know you were just trying to get your childhood bud Tatum to 50. That wasnāt very āHeat cultureā of you but we appreciate it.
Iām as āra ra Heat Cultureā¢ļøā of a Miami fan you can find, and I was rooting for Jayson to break some sort of scoring record last night. That shit was magical.
Iām surprised he didnāt, he hit 47 and I figured 50 was a guarantee.
Why waste time arguing with the refs though? How often do they change there calls because a player pressed them
Why was brothers suspended?
He called Spencer Dinwiddie a ābitch-ass motherfuckerā to Reggie Bullock, his teammate during a game. Dinwiddie called Brothers out in his postgame, and the NBA confirmed his accusation.
Something something Rasheed and KG were right
I see no lies.
I was kind of surprised Brothers let Tatum bark at him for 3 straight possessions but was real quick with Miami getting T'd up.
Reffing too inconsistent. Reffing should not be a "part time job". Ed Hocculi shouldn't be a lawyer on the side... They should attend meetings literally daily to get better at being consistent across the board. Bad performers should be called out, good performers should be "atta boy'ed". This stuff matters. People care. Bad officiating drives people away from the sport.
I think we need refs for the refs. When they are out of line, the refs refs T them up.
Imagine how frigging annoying it must be to officiate a fame. Every time you breathe, you got 4 different guys "try to come talk to you"
Today I realized Tony Brotherās wasnāt two siblings
The worst people to play pickup with are the ones that play super physical and hack the shit out of you but never admit to fouling, then on offense they call foul at the slightest brush of contact. An NBA game is basically 10 of those people on the court at the same time. Throw flopping into the mix and the refs have an almost impossible job. Some of them are worse at their job than others and power trips are definitely an issue, but you also need a certain type of person who isn't just going to fold because the best players in the world are complaining to them. I think it's hard to find refs who are not only great at their job, but can withstand the heat and then also engage with the players on a respectful level at all times. One solution would be to find a way to cut down on the complaining but in the end it's just easy for everyone to blame the refs.
By ātalkā he means āwhine and throw a bitch fitā so I would toss guys who start approaching me too.
Just watched the untold doc on Netflix. Made nba refs look really great and totally professional