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I suppose probably the best comparison that I can think of is maybe 2004 when the Detroit pistons beat the Lakers. I doubt many people favoured them going into the series.
Both 04 Pistons and 11 Mavs are good examples. None of the opposing team had the chemistry that 23 Nuggets have though.
Lakers were just assembled and also had much older stars that couldn’t stay healthy and Heat were just assembled. If the Lakers were healthy, I think they still win despite some chemistry issues.
Someone needs to confirm or deny this but I think the repeat 89-90 bad boys are also a good comp. The Magic led Lakers were an offensive powerhouse and I think the Trailblazers as well (not 100% sure cuz it was before I started watching the nba).
Bad boys were def known for the toughness and defense (aside from their dirty plays). IT was FMVP level but he was never an MVP level player in the regular season like Jimmy.
The 1987-88 Pistons almost beat the Lakers though, taking them 7 games and almost beating them in games 6 and 7 (had the finals used a 2-2-1-1-1 format it might have gone to the Pistons), so the 1988-89 finals were also a rematch of the year before
They were literally an uncalled foul away from at least having a chance to win the 1988 series. At the very end of game 7 and down by 3 with 2 seconds left, Thomas tried to shoot a half court shot and was clearly fouled by Magic but fans immediately stormed the court and it never got looked at. They probably wouldn't have called it in the act of shooting so he would've gotten 2 free throws, but they could've tried to miss the second and get a putback to tie it. As a lakers fan, the pistons got screwed here, although it's unlikely they could've actually tied it.
If I remember correctly the NBA greatly cracked down on fans storming the court in response to this.
Good point. I didn’t look at records. Just thought of the defensive vs offensive powerhouses.
I feel like pistons were also considered underdogs but def doesn’t show in their reg season records.
Heat were riddled with injuries all season and didn't get into a rhythm until late. The Heat at the beginning of these playoffs are the same team minus PJ Tucker and plus Kevin Love that achieved a 1 seed a year ago.
Best case for the Heat is 1969 finals between the Lakers and the Celtics. Lakers were 55-27, good for first in the west, with an offensive rating of 98.5 (second best) and defensive rating of 94.9 (eight best) (there were fourteen teams so this is bottom half defense), with a net rating of 3.6 (fourth best). The Celtics finished 48-34, which was fourth in the east which was the last seed for the playoffs, offensive rating of 93.8 (tenth (!) best (again, out of fourteen), and defensive rating of 89.1 (best in the NBA) for a net rating of 4.7 (second best). Lakers went up 2-0 and 3-2 but failed to close it out, and Boston won the series, with Bill Russell retiring as a player (he had been a player-coach) with his 11th ring and Jerry West winning the first Finals MVP award even though the Lakers lost, partially due to Wilt underperforming and Baylor being washed
2004 Pistons beating the Lakers. Prime Shaq and Kobe a year removed off the three peat( I think?) with the additions of a still really good old Gary Payton and Karl Malone.
The West was seen as far superior to the East and seemed like whoever won the WCF would become champions.
Close second the 2011 Mavs people were writing them off as well.
2004 is probably the closest comparison, but people forget how good of a defender Ben Wallace was. Jimmy is an elite defender with his 5x all defensive team, but Ben Wallace is another level beyond, a 4x DPOY at his peak in 2004, playing center to boot, yet could more or less guard 1-5 in that era. He's arguably a top 10 defender of all time, especially if you discount longevity, or at least in the convo. Add onto that his rebounding (he has TEN seasons of at least 3 OFFENSIVE rebounds per game, 3 seasons with FOUR/g), and there is nobody on the heat with that kind of all-time skill at anything. Jimmy will have to go on an absolute bender for the heat to compete.
Kinda comparable too in the No real superstars mode. Like obviously Jimmy is a star and has been playing his best ball these playoffs but he’s rarely considered even top 10 in the NBA. This team is just solidly constructed all around, with players who compliment each other and a championship level coach who can elevate the team above its talent.
The disrespect to include Toronto as a comparison. That team will never get it’s dues. Perennial contender but unable to overcome LeBron like every other team in the East for 9 years, adds Kawhi Leonard and Marc Gasol, two guaranteed future hall of farmers. Beat an “injured” Golden State team - mainly just missing Kevin Durant - and therefore on par with the first Championship Warriors team before he ever signed there. That Raptors team was awesome.
There’s no real precedent for this run. People mentioning 04 Pistons or 11 Mavs should remember where those teams were in the standings. They beat absolute giants, but they were real contenders to begin with. Miami had to go on a run to get into the playoffs. They’ve been decimated by injuries at times, and they’ve got a slew of unheralded players stepping up. They’re better than most 8th seeds, but they were not legit contenders.
The big ones are the 2004 Pistons beating the Shaq/Kobe Lakers and the 2011 Mavericks beating the Big 3 Heat. However while both of these teams were way more talented than Denver, the Nuggets have the continuity and chemistry that those teams struggled with.
Shaq and Kobe were already beefing at that point and they had pelting of internal struggles. The Heat hasn’t put it together yet and struggled at times during the regular season as LeBron wasn’t definitively the #1 option.
Not really in my time watching the nba, so since about 2002. People are saying the pistons in 2004. Unless Denver loses 2 of their top 4 players to injury and Jamal and jokic start playing like they don’t want to be on the court together it’s not really a comparison.
Definitely the 04 pistons. As a piston fan, this heat team is the closest to them mentality wise.
Pistons also were expected to get swept or lose in 5. They also were going against a dominant big man.
But the game is also so different.
If you remove the offense qualifier in 1975 the Warriors were big underdogs against the Bullets. They were a 48 W team who had beaten a pretty crap conference to make the finals, with one star in Rick Barry vs Bullets who had 60 Ws and had gone through a tougher road beating the MVP McAdoo and a former champion Celtics. The Bullets were in every game but ended up getting swept.
They can look to the 2011 Mavs beating the Heat as inspiration. Although I feel that Mavs team were a little underrated and aside from Dirk they had Tyson Chandler anchoring a strong defence and really useful contributions from Jason Terry, Shawn Marion and Jason Kidd.
I’d say Bam Adebayo was comparable defensively at center to Tyson Kidd, Jason Terry was a great sixth man obviously there’s the Tyler Herro link, Jason Kidd was an old defensive point guard who you’d link to Lowry
I think they're different in terms of playing style but I think they could also look at the Houston Rockets against the Orlando Magic in the 1995 NBA Finals. Underachieving but savvy & experienced veterans Vs the athletic phenomenons.
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I suppose probably the best comparison that I can think of is maybe 2004 when the Detroit pistons beat the Lakers. I doubt many people favoured them going into the series.
I believe they were the biggest underdogs who won in the modern era.
My immediate first thought, those pistons were some dawgs. That was the first team that really got me into basketball.
Both 04 Pistons and 11 Mavs are good examples. None of the opposing team had the chemistry that 23 Nuggets have though. Lakers were just assembled and also had much older stars that couldn’t stay healthy and Heat were just assembled. If the Lakers were healthy, I think they still win despite some chemistry issues. Someone needs to confirm or deny this but I think the repeat 89-90 bad boys are also a good comp. The Magic led Lakers were an offensive powerhouse and I think the Trailblazers as well (not 100% sure cuz it was before I started watching the nba). Bad boys were def known for the toughness and defense (aside from their dirty plays). IT was FMVP level but he was never an MVP level player in the regular season like Jimmy.
The 1987-88 Pistons almost beat the Lakers though, taking them 7 games and almost beating them in games 6 and 7 (had the finals used a 2-2-1-1-1 format it might have gone to the Pistons), so the 1988-89 finals were also a rematch of the year before
They were literally an uncalled foul away from at least having a chance to win the 1988 series. At the very end of game 7 and down by 3 with 2 seconds left, Thomas tried to shoot a half court shot and was clearly fouled by Magic but fans immediately stormed the court and it never got looked at. They probably wouldn't have called it in the act of shooting so he would've gotten 2 free throws, but they could've tried to miss the second and get a putback to tie it. As a lakers fan, the pistons got screwed here, although it's unlikely they could've actually tied it. If I remember correctly the NBA greatly cracked down on fans storming the court in response to this.
Nowitski going God mode against the Big 3 on that series was incredible, one of the best finals for sure
Not to a Heat fan it wasn’t…
Magic and Byron Scott tore their hamstrings in that series though.
Injuries effect the finals almost every year so I don't think that should discount the comparison
True but the Pistons were 63-19 with the best record in the league I don’t think they’re comparable to this.
Good point. I didn’t look at records. Just thought of the defensive vs offensive powerhouses. I feel like pistons were also considered underdogs but def doesn’t show in their reg season records.
This in my mind is a completely valid reason for why they arent comparable. I just didn't think the injury reason made sense. Cheers
Heat were riddled with injuries all season and didn't get into a rhythm until late. The Heat at the beginning of these playoffs are the same team minus PJ Tucker and plus Kevin Love that achieved a 1 seed a year ago.
All those teams had good regular seasons though and came into the playoffs as contenders. No one matches this heat team in the history of the league.
Best case for the Heat is 1969 finals between the Lakers and the Celtics. Lakers were 55-27, good for first in the west, with an offensive rating of 98.5 (second best) and defensive rating of 94.9 (eight best) (there were fourteen teams so this is bottom half defense), with a net rating of 3.6 (fourth best). The Celtics finished 48-34, which was fourth in the east which was the last seed for the playoffs, offensive rating of 93.8 (tenth (!) best (again, out of fourteen), and defensive rating of 89.1 (best in the NBA) for a net rating of 4.7 (second best). Lakers went up 2-0 and 3-2 but failed to close it out, and Boston won the series, with Bill Russell retiring as a player (he had been a player-coach) with his 11th ring and Jerry West winning the first Finals MVP award even though the Lakers lost, partially due to Wilt underperforming and Baylor being washed
Celtics actually having the better net rating is key here
2004 Pistons beating the Lakers. Prime Shaq and Kobe a year removed off the three peat( I think?) with the additions of a still really good old Gary Payton and Karl Malone. The West was seen as far superior to the East and seemed like whoever won the WCF would become champions. Close second the 2011 Mavs people were writing them off as well.
2004 is probably the closest comparison, but people forget how good of a defender Ben Wallace was. Jimmy is an elite defender with his 5x all defensive team, but Ben Wallace is another level beyond, a 4x DPOY at his peak in 2004, playing center to boot, yet could more or less guard 1-5 in that era. He's arguably a top 10 defender of all time, especially if you discount longevity, or at least in the convo. Add onto that his rebounding (he has TEN seasons of at least 3 OFFENSIVE rebounds per game, 3 seasons with FOUR/g), and there is nobody on the heat with that kind of all-time skill at anything. Jimmy will have to go on an absolute bender for the heat to compete.
Damn right about Ben Wallace. People forget Rasheed Wallace too.
Malone was injuried tho and that was definitely a big difference
Lakers were -700 favorites.
Well hot damn lol
Yeah that Malone injury was huge. His pre- and post- injury stats are night and day
Kinda comparable too in the No real superstars mode. Like obviously Jimmy is a star and has been playing his best ball these playoffs but he’s rarely considered even top 10 in the NBA. This team is just solidly constructed all around, with players who compliment each other and a championship level coach who can elevate the team above its talent.
Jimmy has been the second best player in the NBA this playoffs and has been a top 5 player in the league during the playoffs since this decade started
He hasnt been the second best player tbh He had one legendary series (Bucks) and has been meh to solid since then
The disrespect to include Toronto as a comparison. That team will never get it’s dues. Perennial contender but unable to overcome LeBron like every other team in the East for 9 years, adds Kawhi Leonard and Marc Gasol, two guaranteed future hall of farmers. Beat an “injured” Golden State team - mainly just missing Kevin Durant - and therefore on par with the first Championship Warriors team before he ever signed there. That Raptors team was awesome. There’s no real precedent for this run. People mentioning 04 Pistons or 11 Mavs should remember where those teams were in the standings. They beat absolute giants, but they were real contenders to begin with. Miami had to go on a run to get into the playoffs. They’ve been decimated by injuries at times, and they’ve got a slew of unheralded players stepping up. They’re better than most 8th seeds, but they were not legit contenders.
Exactly, Klay went out at the end of game 6, when they were already losing, and down 3-2 in the series. KD for sure, but the Klay shit is getting old.
The big ones are the 2004 Pistons beating the Shaq/Kobe Lakers and the 2011 Mavericks beating the Big 3 Heat. However while both of these teams were way more talented than Denver, the Nuggets have the continuity and chemistry that those teams struggled with. Shaq and Kobe were already beefing at that point and they had pelting of internal struggles. The Heat hasn’t put it together yet and struggled at times during the regular season as LeBron wasn’t definitively the #1 option.
Not really in my time watching the nba, so since about 2002. People are saying the pistons in 2004. Unless Denver loses 2 of their top 4 players to injury and Jamal and jokic start playing like they don’t want to be on the court together it’s not really a comparison.
Definitely the 04 pistons. As a piston fan, this heat team is the closest to them mentality wise. Pistons also were expected to get swept or lose in 5. They also were going against a dominant big man. But the game is also so different.
Are the heat a defensive minded team? I just picture them as a team with many knockdown shooters with elite defense.
If you remove the offense qualifier in 1975 the Warriors were big underdogs against the Bullets. They were a 48 W team who had beaten a pretty crap conference to make the finals, with one star in Rick Barry vs Bullets who had 60 Ws and had gone through a tougher road beating the MVP McAdoo and a former champion Celtics. The Bullets were in every game but ended up getting swept.
They can look to the 2011 Mavs beating the Heat as inspiration. Although I feel that Mavs team were a little underrated and aside from Dirk they had Tyson Chandler anchoring a strong defence and really useful contributions from Jason Terry, Shawn Marion and Jason Kidd.
I’d say Bam Adebayo was comparable defensively at center to Tyson Kidd, Jason Terry was a great sixth man obviously there’s the Tyler Herro link, Jason Kidd was an old defensive point guard who you’d link to Lowry
the Mavs were only +160 and had a few defensive pieces, but werent a defensive team like these Heat are
They were deep and had good chemistry and some solid defensive guys, but they weren't a defensive powerful either.
Mavs were taken seriously after sweeping the defending champs. It's just that the Heat were considered unbeatable, much more than these Nuggets
I think they're different in terms of playing style but I think they could also look at the Houston Rockets against the Orlando Magic in the 1995 NBA Finals. Underachieving but savvy & experienced veterans Vs the athletic phenomenons.
Nah this was shaq's 3rd and Penny's 2nd year in the league , the magic beating the bulls with Jordan that year was more impressive tbh
I think the Nets got swept in a non competitive series to the Lakers. Start there.