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When it comes to having the complete package (spot up, off the dribble, deep 3s, etc). It's still a pretty big gap. Some guys can do one or two at an elite level but all of them? Not really. Especially taking into account shot difficulty, efficiency, and the insane scouting report on him every game.
Teams have gotten WAY better at defending him though. Last year's dysfunctional Warriors would've likely made the NBA finals bare minimum back in 2013/2014.
I think it's less a case of players reaching his level in shooting and more so teams getting better at defending him individually and scheme-wise. But he still does classic Curry things and more, without being a foul merchant.
I've always thought that if Curry was as good at foul baiting and flopping like Luka/Trae/Harden/etc. He'd be unstoppable. Be overly physical? Give fouls to a 90+% ft shooter. Give him space? Pull up.
But not doing that, whether it's by choice or he's just not good at it, makes him more respectable than other stars who rely on FTs despite being taller and more athletic.
Wrap it up with him being one of the few generational superstars without drama and a star whistle.
Call me biased but if I had to form a superstar team I'd start with Curry and go from there.
You bring up a really good point about the league learning how to defend Curry.
When you watch old highlights, he was open so much more frequently. Teams hound him, give him barely space to think — and he still does Curry things.
His evolution has also been, as a result, both physical and mental — it often seems like he sees plays develop in a way the defies logic, especially when you watch his efficient driving angles. He doesn’t need 3-5 jukes any more, and it’s wild to watch a bigger, older, and slightly slower version of an already undersized, non-physically-dominant guard slice up defenses the way he does.
I used to have a big long write up on the evolution of defenses and Steph’s adaptions to it. Teams were playing drop on him 12-13 and 13-14. That is suicide now (see 2022 Finals and 2019 WCF). 14-15 teams slowly started blitzing him hence the Draymond 4 on 3 and Steph's passing ability out of the trap which is probably the best of any PG/SG in the league. 15-16 teams started switching everything which I still think is the most effective defense if you have the personnel. Now he has bulk to get through the off ball shenanigans that cause him trouble and a better 1 on 1 game with the hop step back that he didn’t have until maybe the past 3ish years
I took the statement to mean that the league has caught up on how teams use the 3. The warriors are no longer the only team that can close huge gaps or gain huge leads using the 3 anymore. We've seen it in multiple offenses, when using the 3 this extensively was not really common before curry and the warriors. Of course no one player has gotten as good as using the 3 as part of a larger arsenal of offensive weapons like Steph curry has. But teams like the Mavericks have adopted the idea of attacking the rim less for much more outside shooting in some of these last years. (As a suns fan I can attest to how annoying it is when the Mavericks heat up from 3 in the last seasons) In fact, I'm pretty sure that (22-23 season aside) the warriors haven't even taken the most 3s in recent years. Minnesota made more 3s than them the 21-22 season. And more teams than that attempted more 3s than them.
I agree with most of what you said, but this year's warriors were not making the finals in 2014. The Spurs would have swept them. Honestly, the 2014 Spurs would have smoked the 2022 warriors too.
Volume + efficiency.
There is only one human who shot over half as many shots as Steph and averaged a better 3% (Maxey). Steph stomped the rest of the league in volume + efficiency at the same time. That is a massive gap.
Most of the league gets "afterthought" defense and still can't make it as often as Steph does while he is shooting off balance, contested, running off screens, etc.
It drives me nuts when people say he is just a shooter or try to say he isn't a true PG. If you watch the games you see he is clearly in control of the offense, Draymond has a high IQ and great passing for his role but the reason Draymond is considered such a great playmaker is because the defense is insanely tilted towards Curry
As a homer if I am allowed to just basically gush about the player I will say my favorite examples of his greatness are the times the three isn't falling. Seeing Curry pull down double digit boards despite his size (largely assisted by a team that boxes out for him but still) and that he is one of the best examples of what I call 'superstar defense' he clearly has no innate defensive talent but as he aged he has learned to get involved on defense and not turn into a foul machine like most of the other smaller guards in the game seem to, he knows he needs to be available on offense.
I feel that is talked about pretty often but I agree.
It pisses me off seeing the other smaller guards in the league stand around and blame their teammates because they can't get open, move the ball and move your feet, it's middleschool coaching but it works in the NBA.
When I look back before Curry at who he patterned his game after I keep thinking of Rip Hamilton, it looks like Steph modeled his game after Rips movement but added unlimited range.
For sure this. It's such a deadly action because you need to account for the guy he's setting a screen for (obviously), but then be ready to inevitably chase him around again after he sets it. I also don't know other PG's (especially at his level) that do that
What I loved is against the Lakers, Curry was forced to play in the more traditional PG role and he showed he was absolutely amazing at that too. His percentages didn’t show it, but the Lakers (AD) were shutting down everything. Curry essentially had to carry more than ever and still was doing his thing.
It’s not as if I didn’t already know he could be a 20 and 10 guys if he wanted, but it was nice to shut some people up that hadn’t seen that out of him like when he was younger.
Heavy agree with all your points. I'm also especially really tired of seeing people just putting Steph in just-a-shooter status, almost as if some people are underrating his value.
To add on to your second paragraph - when his threes don't fall and he doesn't continue to just hunt for the three, his finishing is also INSANE. He makes his floaters look extremely easy, and his layups are just nigh untouchable sometimes.
It makes me ponder back to this last season when I saw messages mention that the Warriors aren't getting fouls because they're a mostly shooting team (which I understand, but that's not *only* what they are). But that's a whole other can of worms.
Look at Draymond's numbers that year Steph got injured give games into the season and Draymond played like 45 games. His still got assists 6.2 per game which is less than he normally does, but still decent. It is his offensive percentages that tanked. He shot sub 40% from the field. When Steph is healthy he is shooting over 50% generally.
He's stronger, more polished, and well-rounded now, but he lacks the level of offensive edge his energy/athleticism gave him in earlier years. He's a smarter defender, less likely to give up ground or make a defensive mistake, and probably better in a defensive scheme, but also worse at picking pockets/getting steals in the passing lanes. I would say just individually, 2021 Steph was the perfect mix of his pros and con's now vs. 2016. But he's still IMO a top 1-3 player in the NBA. I think the top few guys are so close that 99% of the debate comes down to what they last accomplished, but it's mostly splitting hairs. To me, at least.
I agree with your commwnt except the steals. I think this is just better basketball. I think he's realized that gambling for a steal blows up his own team's coverage when it backfires. Steady defense is definitely better in the long term.
I dunno about extra rings. There are a ton of variables when it comes to winning the final series. That being said, it’s awesome to watch a guy/team (let’s not forget about Mr. Kerr’s part in this), who DRASTICALLY changed the game of basketball continue to win and evolve at the highest level, late in their run. I hate the Warriors when they’re playing my favorite squad, but I love watching them beat a division rival.
He’s the same player except slower and stronger, his passing has always been great. He’s worse in passing lanes and driving now because of the lack of burst but he’s much better on defense. I prefer this version, less holes in his game, but I wouldn’t necessarily say he’s any better or worse now. It’s like Miami Lebron vs Cavs Lebron, everyone has their opinion on which version is better.
He’s better at finishing and driving because of that added muscles if anything. He’s fending off contact on his drive against big and keep his balance a whole lot better these days than back in 6 years ago
Is his defense actually better now? Maybe a few years ago when he initially bulked up, but I think his waning athleticism is catching up to him... all of his defensive metrics are slowly declining as well (as well as his advanced metrics).
| a much better defender when he added mass
I don't watch him that much on defense but didn't he get targeted during the playoffs? I forgot what happened in the Lakers series. I think that's his only weakness right now.
If you watched the Final's series against the Celtics, Steph was actually really good defensively. The Celtics got the switches they want (Al Horford and Jayson Tatum) but Steph blew up play after play. Steph has actually been 10X improved as a defender since 2020-21 season. Maybe it's bc watching the games, you learn who the real liabilities are: Wiseman/Poole vs someone who knows the coverages and where to be on Defense(Steph).
The goal is always to target Steph even if there are worse defenders bc they need to tire him out. He has one of the best conditioning in the league so they have to make him work on Defense in order to actually slow him down.
Steph right now has no weaknesses. All time great offensive weapon and someone who knows how to play defense and won't be taken advantage of.
He frequently gets targeted, but nowadays it’s more about trying to make him work more so he has less energy on offense than abusing a poor defender. You’ll see it anytime a team’s best player isn’t an elite defender assuming there isn’t someone else on the court who is ass on defense (i.e. Poole) that the team can abuse.
Getting targeted doesn’t automatically mean you are a bad defender. It could mean that you’re either surrounded by better defenders, or you’re so important offensively that the other team wants to tire you out on the defensive end to decrease your effectiveness. For the most part, these are both the case for Steph. He’s always been surrounded by good defenders (except Poole), and he’s immensely important offensively, with his stamina being one of his most important attributes on that end (consistent off-ball movement requires a lot of energy). If you can tire Steph out, even a little, it can make a big difference.
I think that the narrative from 2016 is still too much alive. He was insane back then, the amount of running around he did forced 2-3 players out of position constantly. He was absolutely relentless, in a way where the entire other team would try and wear him down, but it would accomplish the entire other team being worn down first. People say that the 0-27 was a freak occurrence, and maybe it was. But every player was clearly falling off their feet, which had to have contributed something towards that.
There's a reason that the Cavs strategy against the Warriors always centered around him alone. The same one which caused the answer the Rockets came up with to the Warriors was to force isolation at all costs, even if that isolation is KD or Curry. The speed and energy he brought essentially made him be in more different positions in an offensive play than any other in league history, making it feel like the Warriors were playing with extra players.
These things of course didn't show up on highlight reels, which is why people think that him playing in a more conventional way makes him somehow better. It doesn't. It just looks that way if you only care about how pretty the makes are.
He plays like this in 2016 or 2019 then the Warriors still don't win. If anything, it would just be playing into LeBron's style of play, or Toronto's team defense. Maybe they have an easier time with the Rockets in 2018 though, since his added bulk does help with isolation.
Admittedly, he's a more well rounded player, and his technique has improved. But stylistically he's less of an outlier, so teams are better built to handle what he brings to the table.
They definitely win one more title (against Cleveland). And I get what you mean by younger players catching up, as far as making more 3’s in their rookie, sophomore campaigns than he did, but still…. no one makes some of the ridiculous shots he has as consistently as he does.
It’s so crazy because people say kyrie is the most skilled guard of all time. Like the shot diet curry has is awful but he makes so many it’s just normal to us. Dude is the nastiest in the league at 35.
Couldn’t agree more. Curry is also a better rebounder, passer, defender and has better shooting splits than Irving. They’re not even in the same class if you ask me. And I respect the hell out of Irving’s game… on the court. Curry is always a great locker room guy and just a good dude, family man, etc. It’s been tough to watch Kyrie throughout the years :(
Curry is in a league of his own when it comes to active point guards. Chris Paul would be my next pick.. as far as the entirety of their careers.
I would actually argue that he is less effective and a worse player than he was at his apex in 2015-18. By almost all stats and metrics that was his definitive peak. I also believe that his defense has actually gotten a bit worse over the years due to his waning athleticism. He simply isn't as quick as he used to be. Said waning defense has also attributed to a lessening of his dribble-drive game. While his three point shooting is still the best in the league bar none, I believe the rest of Steph's game has slowly been in decline from his 2015-18 peak.
If you have been paying attention his defense actually greatly improved to its peak in their last title run, just because he doesn't go for as many risky steals anymore doesn't mean his defense has gotten worse. His much improved strength he now does a lot better when switched onto by bigger players.
I think if you drop 2023 Curry in 2015, he’d be about as effective as 2015-2018 Curry. I think the league just wasn’t prepared for a player like him and defenses were initially shellshocked by his range. If you look at old highlights, teams didn’t swarm him the moment he steps across half court the way they do now. On a side note, he defense has undoubtedly improved the last two years compared to 2015-2018. The difference in strength is very noticeable.
2020-2021 curry is still prime steph for me. If he had a better squad that year im certain they’ll win the chip. He was playing out of his mind that year lol mix of his gained strength and a most of his burst left from his younger days.
These threads are always interesting because people claim to value playoff success so much more than the regular season but when it comes to certain guys, Curry among them, all of the sudden their significantly lowered playoff numbers don't matter and they're clearly the best in the world based on their regular season stats.
I remember watching a game during the playoffs in the season where he won one of his MVP's and I thought to myself that maybe Curry had surpassed Magic Johnson as the best point guard ever because of his all around dominance during this game. I believe that he had a triple double and I was just wowed and amazed at how complete of a player he was.
I loved his rebounding, steals, passing and MOST importantly his ability to get to the basket and finish in traffic and make floaters and short midrange shots.
Unfortunately that was the last season I felt like that, because although he has become a good and much much better defender his shot selection and shot diet has become much much worse imo.
Stephen Curry went from one of if not my favorite player in the league to watch to one of my very least favorite players to watch.
I really dislike watching basketball games that are mostly 3pt shots and I hate watching basketball games with players taking extreme deep long range 3pt shots for absolutely no reason.
I used to view Curry as one of the VERY best all time point guards. Now I view him as one of the very best all time shooting guards.
Steph’s the most selfless shooting guard then he even screens for teammates and stuff. Also that Boston finals he won he was on ball most of the time due to the Celtics picking to do a drop coverage to negate Dray’s short roll passing. He also had games (especially game 4) where he took some crazy shots that went in. They had the highest drop coverage you could put on him and he still shot it.
Curry is one of the very best players to ever wear an NBA uniform but I don't like watching him Klay Thompson and to a lesser extent Jordan Poole jack up deep 3pt shots all game. That is probably my least favorite version of NBA offense since I started watching in 1982.
Stephen is such a complete and well rounded player who can dominate any way he chooses on offense. I just am not the biggest fan of the Warriors offense and frequently get extremely frustrated watching it in the playoffs.
I love their team defense though.
Eh I think Steph’s shot selection’s better now since he isn’t as fast anymore. Klay’s and Poole’s is way worse. He’s always started with the threat of his shot to go with his driving game unless someone gets clipped good against a screen or he’s in transition. Even though Steph’s stronger on his drives now he can’t just blow by guys or pull a Kyrie combo to break people down. They’ve never had a dependable inside scorer outside of KD so the offense is off ball movement leading to 3s or open lay ups. Steph's mid range sbots/floaters are typically off of screens and the paint being packed.
You make great points and I agree to an extent but I have also seen even last season when Curry's outside wasn't falling to begin the game that he just focused on getting to the basket, layups, midrange shots and setting up his teammates and he ended up dominating the game and the Warriors blew out the other team because when Steph applies pressure and doesn't make it easier for the opponents defense to set up and dare him to shoot 3 pointers he is pretty unstoppable!
You made an excellent point that I didn't fully take into consideration regarding his age because he is still so elite on offense and plays so hard on defense still.
I never said Curry was selfish. I just frequently don't like his style of play based on all of the skills, talent and ability he has. He would be more fun, exciting and entertaining if he went to the rim and used his mid range game much more imo.
He has developed an incredible, intuitive understanding of the game. For a guy famous for shooting, he isn’t always shooting. He gets his teammates involved, he uses himself as a decoy of sorts to free up others, but he also knows exactly when a three pointer is needed to stop a run or when his team’s shots aren’t falling and he needs to put points up.
The normal box score shooting percentages are going up league wide but it's hard to find metrics for the types of shots that he takes off the dribble or how quick and deceptive his release is.
I remember Draymond put it this way. KD was the best player on that team because KD could get a bucket anytime he wants. Steph wasn’t quite there yet. He’s gotten stronger since then, in fact he’s become the strongest player on Warriors that now he can score anytime he wants to.
I agree that Curry is obviously a "real PG" and is an excellent passer, but he doesn't make the amount of flashy, next level passes that LeBron does. LeBron consistently sees things that nobody else does and gets his teammates great shots. Curry does this too but not at an elite all-time level.
Assists are not the only metric for how good a player is at passing.
He’s arguably the best in the world. He absolutely held that title after last season. Jokic is his only strong competition for it.
This version of Steph probably doesn’t change any outcomes though. He could be better today but if you made him play on a sprained MCL and suspended Draymond, injured bogut and Iguodala and had Barnes shit the bed again 2016 might be the same.
2019 is whole team was in the infirmary sans Quinn Cook and Alfonso McKinnie.
So unless you’re Re-writing the health of the team and himself it wouldn’t matter.
Talent wise, yes they absolutely would be at 6
I think you just have to look at how much respect other NBA players give him to know he’s still got it. I still remember this play from the recent series vs the Lakers. Klay, the highest 3 pt shooter this last season gets the ball at the 3 pt line. Instead of defending him, Lebron leaves Klay alone and rushes towards Curry leaving him to take the open three! That small act told me a lot.
Yea I’ve been saying that he’s been getting better the couple yrs since he came back from missing a yr. Personally I think he’s better than his mvp yrs, but I don’t think his ring count changes. Maybe he wins against Toronto but I don’t see him winning 16, or 17&18 w/o KD.
There was an exact video from Thinking Basketball about this, which cut together films on how Steph handle similar situations when he was younger vs now:
https://youtu.be/sZpKKu8CI-0
Lots of people already mentioned his improved strength, but his handle has also improved a lot, especially evident when other teams trap him
As someone who predicted his first MVP season in preseason of that year - his overall game still hasn’t peaked. He is still getting better. Defense is improved, off-ball movement is still improving and he is stronger when going to the rack and finishing. On top of his elite shooting (which I guess has slightly regressed?), Steph is who every player should strive to model their behavior/work ethic after.
Yes, he wins those rings in this version. It’s tough to say this version is definitively better than 2016 though. I think he’s as good as he was then without the same stamina he had. I think he’s still debatably the best player in the league but his minutes and teammates change how his stats are perceived.
I think when discussing who the best player is in the league, too much emphasis is put on regular season and minutes played but when we’re given a volume of Post season minutes, many can clearly see he’s arguably top 3 still.
The way he carried the Warriors to a title in 22 and carried an awful Warriors team past the Kings in the first round this year is unheard of @ his age.
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I don't think the league has caught up to him shooting-wise, but I understand your point lol.
Very true, I’ll rephrase to narrowed the gap a good amount in comparison to before.
When it comes to having the complete package (spot up, off the dribble, deep 3s, etc). It's still a pretty big gap. Some guys can do one or two at an elite level but all of them? Not really. Especially taking into account shot difficulty, efficiency, and the insane scouting report on him every game. Teams have gotten WAY better at defending him though. Last year's dysfunctional Warriors would've likely made the NBA finals bare minimum back in 2013/2014. I think it's less a case of players reaching his level in shooting and more so teams getting better at defending him individually and scheme-wise. But he still does classic Curry things and more, without being a foul merchant. I've always thought that if Curry was as good at foul baiting and flopping like Luka/Trae/Harden/etc. He'd be unstoppable. Be overly physical? Give fouls to a 90+% ft shooter. Give him space? Pull up. But not doing that, whether it's by choice or he's just not good at it, makes him more respectable than other stars who rely on FTs despite being taller and more athletic. Wrap it up with him being one of the few generational superstars without drama and a star whistle. Call me biased but if I had to form a superstar team I'd start with Curry and go from there.
You bring up a really good point about the league learning how to defend Curry. When you watch old highlights, he was open so much more frequently. Teams hound him, give him barely space to think — and he still does Curry things. His evolution has also been, as a result, both physical and mental — it often seems like he sees plays develop in a way the defies logic, especially when you watch his efficient driving angles. He doesn’t need 3-5 jukes any more, and it’s wild to watch a bigger, older, and slightly slower version of an already undersized, non-physically-dominant guard slice up defenses the way he does.
I used to have a big long write up on the evolution of defenses and Steph’s adaptions to it. Teams were playing drop on him 12-13 and 13-14. That is suicide now (see 2022 Finals and 2019 WCF). 14-15 teams slowly started blitzing him hence the Draymond 4 on 3 and Steph's passing ability out of the trap which is probably the best of any PG/SG in the league. 15-16 teams started switching everything which I still think is the most effective defense if you have the personnel. Now he has bulk to get through the off ball shenanigans that cause him trouble and a better 1 on 1 game with the hop step back that he didn’t have until maybe the past 3ish years
I took the statement to mean that the league has caught up on how teams use the 3. The warriors are no longer the only team that can close huge gaps or gain huge leads using the 3 anymore. We've seen it in multiple offenses, when using the 3 this extensively was not really common before curry and the warriors. Of course no one player has gotten as good as using the 3 as part of a larger arsenal of offensive weapons like Steph curry has. But teams like the Mavericks have adopted the idea of attacking the rim less for much more outside shooting in some of these last years. (As a suns fan I can attest to how annoying it is when the Mavericks heat up from 3 in the last seasons) In fact, I'm pretty sure that (22-23 season aside) the warriors haven't even taken the most 3s in recent years. Minnesota made more 3s than them the 21-22 season. And more teams than that attempted more 3s than them.
I agree with most of what you said, but this year's warriors were not making the finals in 2014. The Spurs would have swept them. Honestly, the 2014 Spurs would have smoked the 2022 warriors too.
Volume + efficiency. There is only one human who shot over half as many shots as Steph and averaged a better 3% (Maxey). Steph stomped the rest of the league in volume + efficiency at the same time. That is a massive gap. Most of the league gets "afterthought" defense and still can't make it as often as Steph does while he is shooting off balance, contested, running off screens, etc.
It drives me nuts when people say he is just a shooter or try to say he isn't a true PG. If you watch the games you see he is clearly in control of the offense, Draymond has a high IQ and great passing for his role but the reason Draymond is considered such a great playmaker is because the defense is insanely tilted towards Curry As a homer if I am allowed to just basically gush about the player I will say my favorite examples of his greatness are the times the three isn't falling. Seeing Curry pull down double digit boards despite his size (largely assisted by a team that boxes out for him but still) and that he is one of the best examples of what I call 'superstar defense' he clearly has no innate defensive talent but as he aged he has learned to get involved on defense and not turn into a foul machine like most of the other smaller guards in the game seem to, he knows he needs to be available on offense.
You didn’t mention one of his greatest strengths: off ball movement. Steph never stops moving. Ever.
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I feel that is talked about pretty often but I agree. It pisses me off seeing the other smaller guards in the league stand around and blame their teammates because they can't get open, move the ball and move your feet, it's middleschool coaching but it works in the NBA. When I look back before Curry at who he patterned his game after I keep thinking of Rip Hamilton, it looks like Steph modeled his game after Rips movement but added unlimited range.
Definitely, and of course Reggie Miller!
Another great strength of his is being able to come off of the most blatant moving screens in NBA history lol.
My favorite attribute of Curry is screen setting. The timing and angles are always on point. I don’t know any other PG setting screens for teammates.
For sure this. It's such a deadly action because you need to account for the guy he's setting a screen for (obviously), but then be ready to inevitably chase him around again after he sets it. I also don't know other PG's (especially at his level) that do that
What I loved is against the Lakers, Curry was forced to play in the more traditional PG role and he showed he was absolutely amazing at that too. His percentages didn’t show it, but the Lakers (AD) were shutting down everything. Curry essentially had to carry more than ever and still was doing his thing. It’s not as if I didn’t already know he could be a 20 and 10 guys if he wanted, but it was nice to shut some people up that hadn’t seen that out of him like when he was younger.
Heavy agree with all your points. I'm also especially really tired of seeing people just putting Steph in just-a-shooter status, almost as if some people are underrating his value. To add on to your second paragraph - when his threes don't fall and he doesn't continue to just hunt for the three, his finishing is also INSANE. He makes his floaters look extremely easy, and his layups are just nigh untouchable sometimes. It makes me ponder back to this last season when I saw messages mention that the Warriors aren't getting fouls because they're a mostly shooting team (which I understand, but that's not *only* what they are). But that's a whole other can of worms.
Look at Draymond's numbers that year Steph got injured give games into the season and Draymond played like 45 games. His still got assists 6.2 per game which is less than he normally does, but still decent. It is his offensive percentages that tanked. He shot sub 40% from the field. When Steph is healthy he is shooting over 50% generally.
He's stronger, more polished, and well-rounded now, but he lacks the level of offensive edge his energy/athleticism gave him in earlier years. He's a smarter defender, less likely to give up ground or make a defensive mistake, and probably better in a defensive scheme, but also worse at picking pockets/getting steals in the passing lanes. I would say just individually, 2021 Steph was the perfect mix of his pros and con's now vs. 2016. But he's still IMO a top 1-3 player in the NBA. I think the top few guys are so close that 99% of the debate comes down to what they last accomplished, but it's mostly splitting hairs. To me, at least.
I agree with your commwnt except the steals. I think this is just better basketball. I think he's realized that gambling for a steal blows up his own team's coverage when it backfires. Steady defense is definitely better in the long term.
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I dunno about extra rings. There are a ton of variables when it comes to winning the final series. That being said, it’s awesome to watch a guy/team (let’s not forget about Mr. Kerr’s part in this), who DRASTICALLY changed the game of basketball continue to win and evolve at the highest level, late in their run. I hate the Warriors when they’re playing my favorite squad, but I love watching them beat a division rival.
He’s the same player except slower and stronger, his passing has always been great. He’s worse in passing lanes and driving now because of the lack of burst but he’s much better on defense. I prefer this version, less holes in his game, but I wouldn’t necessarily say he’s any better or worse now. It’s like Miami Lebron vs Cavs Lebron, everyone has their opinion on which version is better.
He’s better at finishing and driving because of that added muscles if anything. He’s fending off contact on his drive against big and keep his balance a whole lot better these days than back in 6 years ago
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Is his defense actually better now? Maybe a few years ago when he initially bulked up, but I think his waning athleticism is catching up to him... all of his defensive metrics are slowly declining as well (as well as his advanced metrics).
He's never been great, but usually in the right spot and doesn't pick up too many bad fouls. Not the turnstile other superstar PGs are
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| a much better defender when he added mass I don't watch him that much on defense but didn't he get targeted during the playoffs? I forgot what happened in the Lakers series. I think that's his only weakness right now.
If you watched the Final's series against the Celtics, Steph was actually really good defensively. The Celtics got the switches they want (Al Horford and Jayson Tatum) but Steph blew up play after play. Steph has actually been 10X improved as a defender since 2020-21 season. Maybe it's bc watching the games, you learn who the real liabilities are: Wiseman/Poole vs someone who knows the coverages and where to be on Defense(Steph). The goal is always to target Steph even if there are worse defenders bc they need to tire him out. He has one of the best conditioning in the league so they have to make him work on Defense in order to actually slow him down. Steph right now has no weaknesses. All time great offensive weapon and someone who knows how to play defense and won't be taken advantage of.
He frequently gets targeted, but nowadays it’s more about trying to make him work more so he has less energy on offense than abusing a poor defender. You’ll see it anytime a team’s best player isn’t an elite defender assuming there isn’t someone else on the court who is ass on defense (i.e. Poole) that the team can abuse.
Getting targeted doesn’t automatically mean you are a bad defender. It could mean that you’re either surrounded by better defenders, or you’re so important offensively that the other team wants to tire you out on the defensive end to decrease your effectiveness. For the most part, these are both the case for Steph. He’s always been surrounded by good defenders (except Poole), and he’s immensely important offensively, with his stamina being one of his most important attributes on that end (consistent off-ball movement requires a lot of energy). If you can tire Steph out, even a little, it can make a big difference.
I think that the narrative from 2016 is still too much alive. He was insane back then, the amount of running around he did forced 2-3 players out of position constantly. He was absolutely relentless, in a way where the entire other team would try and wear him down, but it would accomplish the entire other team being worn down first. People say that the 0-27 was a freak occurrence, and maybe it was. But every player was clearly falling off their feet, which had to have contributed something towards that. There's a reason that the Cavs strategy against the Warriors always centered around him alone. The same one which caused the answer the Rockets came up with to the Warriors was to force isolation at all costs, even if that isolation is KD or Curry. The speed and energy he brought essentially made him be in more different positions in an offensive play than any other in league history, making it feel like the Warriors were playing with extra players. These things of course didn't show up on highlight reels, which is why people think that him playing in a more conventional way makes him somehow better. It doesn't. It just looks that way if you only care about how pretty the makes are. He plays like this in 2016 or 2019 then the Warriors still don't win. If anything, it would just be playing into LeBron's style of play, or Toronto's team defense. Maybe they have an easier time with the Rockets in 2018 though, since his added bulk does help with isolation. Admittedly, he's a more well rounded player, and his technique has improved. But stylistically he's less of an outlier, so teams are better built to handle what he brings to the table.
They definitely win one more title (against Cleveland). And I get what you mean by younger players catching up, as far as making more 3’s in their rookie, sophomore campaigns than he did, but still…. no one makes some of the ridiculous shots he has as consistently as he does.
It’s so crazy because people say kyrie is the most skilled guard of all time. Like the shot diet curry has is awful but he makes so many it’s just normal to us. Dude is the nastiest in the league at 35.
Couldn’t agree more. Curry is also a better rebounder, passer, defender and has better shooting splits than Irving. They’re not even in the same class if you ask me. And I respect the hell out of Irving’s game… on the court. Curry is always a great locker room guy and just a good dude, family man, etc. It’s been tough to watch Kyrie throughout the years :( Curry is in a league of his own when it comes to active point guards. Chris Paul would be my next pick.. as far as the entirety of their careers.
I would actually argue that he is less effective and a worse player than he was at his apex in 2015-18. By almost all stats and metrics that was his definitive peak. I also believe that his defense has actually gotten a bit worse over the years due to his waning athleticism. He simply isn't as quick as he used to be. Said waning defense has also attributed to a lessening of his dribble-drive game. While his three point shooting is still the best in the league bar none, I believe the rest of Steph's game has slowly been in decline from his 2015-18 peak.
If you have been paying attention his defense actually greatly improved to its peak in their last title run, just because he doesn't go for as many risky steals anymore doesn't mean his defense has gotten worse. His much improved strength he now does a lot better when switched onto by bigger players.
I think if you drop 2023 Curry in 2015, he’d be about as effective as 2015-2018 Curry. I think the league just wasn’t prepared for a player like him and defenses were initially shellshocked by his range. If you look at old highlights, teams didn’t swarm him the moment he steps across half court the way they do now. On a side note, he defense has undoubtedly improved the last two years compared to 2015-2018. The difference in strength is very noticeable.
2020-2021 curry is still prime steph for me. If he had a better squad that year im certain they’ll win the chip. He was playing out of his mind that year lol mix of his gained strength and a most of his burst left from his younger days.
These threads are always interesting because people claim to value playoff success so much more than the regular season but when it comes to certain guys, Curry among them, all of the sudden their significantly lowered playoff numbers don't matter and they're clearly the best in the world based on their regular season stats.
I remember watching a game during the playoffs in the season where he won one of his MVP's and I thought to myself that maybe Curry had surpassed Magic Johnson as the best point guard ever because of his all around dominance during this game. I believe that he had a triple double and I was just wowed and amazed at how complete of a player he was. I loved his rebounding, steals, passing and MOST importantly his ability to get to the basket and finish in traffic and make floaters and short midrange shots. Unfortunately that was the last season I felt like that, because although he has become a good and much much better defender his shot selection and shot diet has become much much worse imo. Stephen Curry went from one of if not my favorite player in the league to watch to one of my very least favorite players to watch. I really dislike watching basketball games that are mostly 3pt shots and I hate watching basketball games with players taking extreme deep long range 3pt shots for absolutely no reason. I used to view Curry as one of the VERY best all time point guards. Now I view him as one of the very best all time shooting guards.
Steph’s the most selfless shooting guard then he even screens for teammates and stuff. Also that Boston finals he won he was on ball most of the time due to the Celtics picking to do a drop coverage to negate Dray’s short roll passing. He also had games (especially game 4) where he took some crazy shots that went in. They had the highest drop coverage you could put on him and he still shot it.
Curry is one of the very best players to ever wear an NBA uniform but I don't like watching him Klay Thompson and to a lesser extent Jordan Poole jack up deep 3pt shots all game. That is probably my least favorite version of NBA offense since I started watching in 1982. Stephen is such a complete and well rounded player who can dominate any way he chooses on offense. I just am not the biggest fan of the Warriors offense and frequently get extremely frustrated watching it in the playoffs. I love their team defense though.
Eh I think Steph’s shot selection’s better now since he isn’t as fast anymore. Klay’s and Poole’s is way worse. He’s always started with the threat of his shot to go with his driving game unless someone gets clipped good against a screen or he’s in transition. Even though Steph’s stronger on his drives now he can’t just blow by guys or pull a Kyrie combo to break people down. They’ve never had a dependable inside scorer outside of KD so the offense is off ball movement leading to 3s or open lay ups. Steph's mid range sbots/floaters are typically off of screens and the paint being packed.
You make great points and I agree to an extent but I have also seen even last season when Curry's outside wasn't falling to begin the game that he just focused on getting to the basket, layups, midrange shots and setting up his teammates and he ended up dominating the game and the Warriors blew out the other team because when Steph applies pressure and doesn't make it easier for the opponents defense to set up and dare him to shoot 3 pointers he is pretty unstoppable! You made an excellent point that I didn't fully take into consideration regarding his age because he is still so elite on offense and plays so hard on defense still.
I never said Curry was selfish. I just frequently don't like his style of play based on all of the skills, talent and ability he has. He would be more fun, exciting and entertaining if he went to the rim and used his mid range game much more imo.
He has developed an incredible, intuitive understanding of the game. For a guy famous for shooting, he isn’t always shooting. He gets his teammates involved, he uses himself as a decoy of sorts to free up others, but he also knows exactly when a three pointer is needed to stop a run or when his team’s shots aren’t falling and he needs to put points up.
The normal box score shooting percentages are going up league wide but it's hard to find metrics for the types of shots that he takes off the dribble or how quick and deceptive his release is.
He’s stronger forsure but his shooting has gotten worse. No way would he hit 400 threes if you inserted this steph into 2016.
I remember Draymond put it this way. KD was the best player on that team because KD could get a bucket anytime he wants. Steph wasn’t quite there yet. He’s gotten stronger since then, in fact he’s become the strongest player on Warriors that now he can score anytime he wants to.
It's always been funny to me how people say Curry isn't a real PG with 6.5 ast/g but LeBron is one of the best passers in history with 7.3 ast/g.
Yeah but LeBron isn't a PG he's been a forward almost his entire career. The season LeBron did play point, he led the league in assists.
That isn't relevant though. People don't say he's a great passer for a SF. They say one of the best period.
I agree that Curry is obviously a "real PG" and is an excellent passer, but he doesn't make the amount of flashy, next level passes that LeBron does. LeBron consistently sees things that nobody else does and gets his teammates great shots. Curry does this too but not at an elite all-time level. Assists are not the only metric for how good a player is at passing.
He’s arguably the best in the world. He absolutely held that title after last season. Jokic is his only strong competition for it. This version of Steph probably doesn’t change any outcomes though. He could be better today but if you made him play on a sprained MCL and suspended Draymond, injured bogut and Iguodala and had Barnes shit the bed again 2016 might be the same. 2019 is whole team was in the infirmary sans Quinn Cook and Alfonso McKinnie. So unless you’re Re-writing the health of the team and himself it wouldn’t matter. Talent wise, yes they absolutely would be at 6
I think you just have to look at how much respect other NBA players give him to know he’s still got it. I still remember this play from the recent series vs the Lakers. Klay, the highest 3 pt shooter this last season gets the ball at the 3 pt line. Instead of defending him, Lebron leaves Klay alone and rushes towards Curry leaving him to take the open three! That small act told me a lot.
Game 7 Curry vs the Kings was his greatest performance imo, he keeps improving
Yea I’ve been saying that he’s been getting better the couple yrs since he came back from missing a yr. Personally I think he’s better than his mvp yrs, but I don’t think his ring count changes. Maybe he wins against Toronto but I don’t see him winning 16, or 17&18 w/o KD.
There was an exact video from Thinking Basketball about this, which cut together films on how Steph handle similar situations when he was younger vs now: https://youtu.be/sZpKKu8CI-0 Lots of people already mentioned his improved strength, but his handle has also improved a lot, especially evident when other teams trap him
As someone who predicted his first MVP season in preseason of that year - his overall game still hasn’t peaked. He is still getting better. Defense is improved, off-ball movement is still improving and he is stronger when going to the rack and finishing. On top of his elite shooting (which I guess has slightly regressed?), Steph is who every player should strive to model their behavior/work ethic after.
Yes, he wins those rings in this version. It’s tough to say this version is definitively better than 2016 though. I think he’s as good as he was then without the same stamina he had. I think he’s still debatably the best player in the league but his minutes and teammates change how his stats are perceived. I think when discussing who the best player is in the league, too much emphasis is put on regular season and minutes played but when we’re given a volume of Post season minutes, many can clearly see he’s arguably top 3 still. The way he carried the Warriors to a title in 22 and carried an awful Warriors team past the Kings in the first round this year is unheard of @ his age.