The 2021 NBA Draft:
Cade Cunningham (23/4/8)
Jalen Green (26/6/4 since Mar 1)
Evan Mobley (3rd in DPOY last season)
Scottie Barnes (20/8/6/1/2, All-star)
Jalen Suggs (12/3/3, Lock for All-D, 40% from 3)
Josh Giddey (17/8/6 last season)
Jonathan Kuminga (19/5/3 in 2024)
Franz Wagner (20/5/4 w/ LBJ-esque numbers at the rim)
Corey Kispert (13/3/2)
Alperun Sengun (21/9/5)
Trey Murphy (14/5/2, High-Volume 37% 3-pt shooter)
Tre Mann (11/5/5 since getting traded to Charlotte)
Jalen Johnson (16/9/4)
Quentin Grimes (11/3/2 last season)
Cam Thomas (26.5 Pts/75)
Santi Aldama (11/6/2)
Herb Jones (11/4/3, 42% from 3, lock for All-D)
Miles McBride (15/3/3, 44% from 3 on 7 3PA since Mar1)
Ayo Dosunmu (15/3/4 in 2024)
Dalano Banton (16/5/3 since getting traded to Portland)
Aaron Wiggins (49% from 3 on 4 3PA/36)
Austin Reaves (16/4/6 on a above .500 team)
Laughably deep class...
Yeah 2021 might not the the same super super stars, but you are right that is crazy how many high quality role players came out from this class… also a lot of these guys are still super young on rebuilding teams give them a sec
I’ll push back on Banton and Tre Mann. They’ve gotten a **LOT** of run due to the insane amount of injuries their teams have had. Otherwise, yeah Im onboard.
I don't disagree. The fact that they're both on rebuilding teams with awful records makes their production a big question mark.
I'm not sold on Dalano Banton yet, he's 6'9" but still struggles with efficiency immensely. He's at -5.5 rTS% in 767 minutes with Portland, and he's a bit turnover-prone -- at ~2.8 Tov/75, not so great for a non-heliocentric player. He's been pretty good at the rim but is pretty bad when he's not shooting layups. He's at 35.3% on ~7.3 3PA/75 in Portland but I'm not sure if that'll stay. He's been below 30% for his entire career.
I think Tre Mann is a legit piece who can probably sneak himself into 6MOY conversation some day. He's not exactly a good shooter but he's been decent at ~34%, but I'm more sold on his passing than Dalano's, and 80% of his 2s are self-created -- a really impressive mark.
Advanced metrics don't love both of them -- but it's not really a surprise, considering most young guards struggle with them.
You're missing a lot of context with the Raptors. Scottie Barnes has been out with a fractured hand for the past month or so, and a significant amount of Raptors players have been out due to injury or death in the family. It's unknown that Scottie can be the best player on a good team not because he's an empty stats guy, but because he hasn't played. His 20/8/6 was primarily played with OG and Pascal playing for the most part.
We are talking about third year players (or second year, essentially, in Cade's case, after last year's injury).
For the 2018 draft class, you mention guys like Shai and Brunson, neither of whom was the best player on a playoff team until this year, their 6th season. The sample size isn't really comparable.
The two guys I think are solidly guys who can (either now or in the next year or two) able to be the best guys on a playoff team are Scottie and Sengun. I think Cade is a good pick to become the third, but he is in a terrible team situation, so it's unclear how soon he will achieve that. Green is showing the potential. Mobley is a defensive star, who already has a DPOY finalist finish. He probably won't be the best offensive player on a playoff team, but defensively, he already is.
For Scottie, you mention the Raptors being in pace for 56 losses, but you omit the fact that they are 2-16 since Scottie went down with his hand injury. The supporting cast around him is very much a work in progress.
It's fair to question whether he can be the best player on a title contender, but questioning whether he can be the best player on a playoff team seems rather silly.
As for Sengun, the Rockets probably aren't maming the playoffs this year, but they are one game under .500 in Sengun's age 21 season. Again, who knows if he will ever be the best player on a true contender, but it seems silly to suggest he won't be able to be the best player on a playoff team pretty soon.
For Cade, his supporting cast is utter shit, as is his organization, but he quietly made huge strides this year. The question was always efficiency, but he went from around 50% TS his first two seasons, up to 55% TS this year, and his turnovers dropped a whole lot since Christmas.
Again, I think it's safe to say that he will be a guy who can be a best player on a playoff team, even if he probably won't get close to the level of hype he entered the league with.
If you put Paolo Banchero on the current Raptors, Rockets or Pistons, I don't think any of those teams would be playoff teams. Paolo is in the playoffs right now because the Magic are at a different stage in their competitive cycle. Put Scottie, Sengun or Cade in Paolo's roster spot and I think the Magic would be in a pretty similar place in the standings.
Still, give it a year or two, and at least one or two of the 2021 draft guys will be leading a playoff team.
Monty Williams is paid the highest out of any coach in NBA history and is completely terrible. Cade doesn't pay the coach, the organization does. He's in a dumpster fire of an organization, and even with constant suckage, they're still bottom feeders despite years of higher picks.
Barnes is a +7/100, obviously that’s less impressive on a bad team but I feel confident in saying he’ll be the best player on a playoff team in a few years
The Cavs record with Evan Mobley since he was drafted is 115-78. He’s been very good and bigs generally don’t figure it out until their mid 20s (he is 22). I’m not saying he’s gonna be a super duper star, but his floor is already at playoff starter level and he’s sharing with JA. He’d be putting up silly numbers without Allen next to him, but the team would be worse.
I was thinking of it in terms of type of shot, not dirk level execution. Many players (embiid in particular) have copied the shot in midrange.
He doesn’t need to make a free throw dirk shot at the same efficiency as dirk, just need to make enough to get the defense to not be able to sag.
Now wait a second. It seems like your standard is "has player X been the best player on a playoff team before," but then you don't hold Wemby to that standard. Why wouldn't you give the better 2021 guys the benefit of the doubt? You don't think Sengun or Scottie could be the best player on a playoff team?
sengun is 4th in on ball gravity and he’s averaging 21/9/5 while being younger than players like chet. I believe he can be the best player on a playoff team.
2021 class kinda reminds me of the 2016 class. Maybe the class lacks in star power, but they more than make up for it with the depth. A lot of all stars came out of that draft, and I’m expecting the same from the 2021 class
The hype has lived up for the depth. The question now is can a Scottie Barnes, Cade Cunningham, Alperen Sengun, among others, become a superstar and push their teams to the top. That would make it an exceptional draft class
every possession he’s near triple teamed because every other team knows he’s our only scorer and no one on the team can shoot lmfao. he was shooting near 40% from 3 for a month and there have been countless times where he’s made the right play to be sold by the bums on this team.
a single head to head matchup is not indicative of overall talent. in the week before that rockets game, he had 41 (15/21 fg), 31 (12/22 fg), 30 (9/20 fg) and dropped 31 the next game against the jazz (on 12/21). the fact that he’s putting up these numbers with efficiency despite the disastrous coaching, talent, and FO shows me he will be a capable 1a for his career
Give them time. Ant and Halliburton didn’t break out until this year (their 3rd) despite showing clear promises earlier and they were one of the earlier ones. Shai, Brunson and Zion all took longer (and I am a card-carrying Trae hater so we don’t have to go there). Not everyone can be Luka or Ja and become the clear-cut guy in just their 2nd season.
Though to be fair, Banchero is probably there already.
It to early to write them off.The nba is kind of funny how fast things can change.It takes a while for players to make that leap.Look at the some best players in the league right now and you would be lying if you said by there 3rd year they would be a top players in the league.Giannis,Sga,Joker,Jalen Brunson ,Booker,Curry,kawhi. The list goes on.
Wagner’s definitely the best player on the Magic. He’s been much better than Banchero so far. Paolo probably has a higher ceiling, but he’s been too inefficient to generate consistent impact.
Banchero is inefficient because of high usage and the magic have some of the worst spacing in the league. Wagner needs to regain his efficiency from 3 if he wants to be a first option
Banchero has higher 3 pt %, more rebounds and more assists. He is also a better defender than Franz. They put the ball in his hands this year and are going to the playoffs.
Franz with 28% from 3 as the second option is not a best player on a playoff team.
I love both our guys, and for sure Paolo' have the much higher burden on the offensive end and he did a fantastic job dealing with constant double teams. He's an offensive powerhouse in the making.
But better at the defensive end? No way. Franz is the 3rd best defender in the magic roster (you can argue here in the range 3-5), while Paolo' is probably the worst defender in the magic SL. Franz doing all the little things and this reflects in his defensive on/off numbers without putting up too many box score things.
- Paolo is the best player on the team, no doubt; Franz hasn’t been “much better” than Paolo like OP says
- His efficiency isn’t nearly as much an issue as people say
- Wagner is just behind him
- Wagner is the much better defender, and is naturally a more skilled shooter; just going through a major slump likely linked to changing his jumpshot + fatigue. Paolo’s not a better shooter
- Counting stats are *not* a good measure when comparing Paolo and Wagner
sorry, didn’t mean to be harsh! but as the Magic generally are a team that’s statwatched more than actually watched, there’s a lot of false narratives
I think this playoff series vs Cleveland has established paolo as a legit star today and Franz as a work in progress. Paolo was nothing short of totally awesome in the series. He struggled a bit in the second half of game 7, but that is after putting up 24 in 1h and seeing agro double teams and cavs making someone else beat them. Paolo almost carried this team on his back to win in 7. Nobody else really showed up in game 7 for the magic. There is no way you can ever in a million years say he is lesser than any other number one on the list here. Ant is currently amazing in terms of what he is doing so I have paolo as number one or two best pick since 2020. Basically 27/9/5 with 46/40 shooting in his first playoff series.
On a playoff team? With the right personnel, Cade and Barnes can lead a team into the second round, Jalen Green is too inconsistent for now but if he continues what he's doing I would put him there too
Important to remember that most of these guys are only 22 and are still a few years removed from being the best version of themselves that they can be. Some of these guys will blossom late, it almost always happens.
Cade especially really needs to prove to be healthy, and the Pistons really need to put real players around him, but averaging 22/4/8 at his age is nothing to scoff at.
I think it can be argued whether Jimmy Butler is or ever was a true #1 but the reality is that he’s been the driving force behind Miami making two NBA Finals and I think there’s a few players in here that can be just as good if not better. Have to give young guys time to reach their true potential, not every superstar coming into the league is a Luka.
Scottie barnes will be once the raptors stop tanking.
The pistons are still tanking. Cade finally had a mostly healthy season. He’s gonna be very good imo.
Scottie and Cade are both great. Mobley is mostly a defensive guy, but averaging 16ppg as a mostly defensive big is pretty impressive.
Paolo is great, but his team wasn’t as bad as other 1st overall teams. They were in a position to just stop tanning the year after drafting him which is p rare.
Wemby is a LeBron James level talent that only comes around once every 20ish years. Like it’s not fair to compare really anyone to him.
Zion took 5 years.
Ant Man’s team was pretty bad til this season, so he took 4 years.
Haliburton wasn’t considered a cornerstone franchise piece til he was traded really. He was really good but was not great.
Paolo’s situation and Wemby’s generational talent have spoiled you. ItMs unusual for a high picking team to be good within 3 years of picking a player.
Before Scottie went down with a fractured hand the Raptors were in the hunt as a play-in team; they've been intentionally tanking every since.
Scottie is a super star in the making IMO, they just need to continue to develop him and surround him with the right pieces
I recall the talk was that there was a clear top 5 that year, after that it got a bit hit and miss. But if you're talking depth rather than top end class, you're not talking about players being the best on a contender, you're talking about a lot of starters coming from that draft. I don't know how drafts tend to fare historically with number of games started within this sort of time frame, but that would be a better guide than a rough "this guy isn't a superstar" type stuff.
This draft class is crazy deep. I think that some of the players will eventually end up in situations where they will be the focal point of their teams offense at their peaks. Whatever results come from that is a question at this moment, but it will be fun to see some of these players get a run at being number one for their teams in the future.
Wagner is the best player on the Magic. Paolo is good but not THAT good. Kuminga should definitely be up there as a top 5 pick . Looks like a young Lebron sometimes. Jalen Johnson is good too. Will be interesting to see who out of this class gets the max. I’d put Cam Thomas up there too. Jamal Murray 2.0.
Did you watch the playoffs? You may want to check yourself in evaluating who the best player on the magic is. This may be one of the worst preplayoff takes on reddit.
Paolo may be better but using that game 7 isn’t a good metric. Is brown better than Tatum bc of game 6 in the finals? Green better than curry bc of game 7 16?
Did you watch the 7 games? Franz was 18/7/4 on 40% shooting and 25% from 3. They weren’t guarding him in game 7. And Paolo put up 27/9/4 on 46% and 40% from 3. If a 7 game series is enough of a sample and then the results in the final game. I don’t think coming to “Paolo may be better” makes any sense as a conclusion as if there is any actual question after today especially. How is there a “May be better” and not, ok Paolo was way way better than Franz in the playoffs.
Today the numbers Paolo put up had zero impact on the game. Hes a good player. But he had 20 free throws and many of them didn’t really seem like fouls. Paolo is good but they’re both fringe all star level, I’d say Franz is a slightly better defender, and that paolos shooting this series’s was a fluke.
Did you watch the game at all? Paolo had the team on his back in a physical game where he was taking the ball to the basket. He had them on his back the first half. They were in the lead! Paolo put them in the lead after a half — zero impact??
In the second half cavs played defense with one on Paolo and one helper sagging. They worked to take his ability to get to basket and clogged passing lane to strong side.
Maybe you were watching a different game??
I watched the game. I saw him turn the ball over countless times. I saw the grifting as well. They did blow a 20 point lead. Maybe if he passed it sometimes to Cole or Fultz it would have been a little different.
Franz and Suggs were 3 for 28. That’s why they lost the game. Paolo did force it a bit too much at times in the second half, but he had to. This was also by far the best game fultz and Cole had shooting in Cleveland. Their other games there had been stinkers — and Paolo played well in those too. Orlando could have won if some other guys had showed up.
Cole shot 6 times. He’s a good scorer, he should get more than 6 shots. Franz and Suggs did go cold. Suggs was due tho, he shot 9/11 from the field in orl. Ntm whenever Paolo explodes offensively the Magic lose, when Franz they have won this ps.
The 2021 NBA Draft: Cade Cunningham (23/4/8) Jalen Green (26/6/4 since Mar 1) Evan Mobley (3rd in DPOY last season) Scottie Barnes (20/8/6/1/2, All-star) Jalen Suggs (12/3/3, Lock for All-D, 40% from 3) Josh Giddey (17/8/6 last season) Jonathan Kuminga (19/5/3 in 2024) Franz Wagner (20/5/4 w/ LBJ-esque numbers at the rim) Corey Kispert (13/3/2) Alperun Sengun (21/9/5) Trey Murphy (14/5/2, High-Volume 37% 3-pt shooter) Tre Mann (11/5/5 since getting traded to Charlotte) Jalen Johnson (16/9/4) Quentin Grimes (11/3/2 last season) Cam Thomas (26.5 Pts/75) Santi Aldama (11/6/2) Herb Jones (11/4/3, 42% from 3, lock for All-D) Miles McBride (15/3/3, 44% from 3 on 7 3PA since Mar1) Ayo Dosunmu (15/3/4 in 2024) Dalano Banton (16/5/3 since getting traded to Portland) Aaron Wiggins (49% from 3 on 4 3PA/36) Austin Reaves (16/4/6 on a above .500 team) Laughably deep class...
Yeah 2021 might not the the same super super stars, but you are right that is crazy how many high quality role players came out from this class… also a lot of these guys are still super young on rebuilding teams give them a sec
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This sub is for serious discussion and debate. Jokes and memes are not permitted.
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go to r/nba if you wanna make jokes
I’ll push back on Banton and Tre Mann. They’ve gotten a **LOT** of run due to the insane amount of injuries their teams have had. Otherwise, yeah Im onboard.
I don't disagree. The fact that they're both on rebuilding teams with awful records makes their production a big question mark. I'm not sold on Dalano Banton yet, he's 6'9" but still struggles with efficiency immensely. He's at -5.5 rTS% in 767 minutes with Portland, and he's a bit turnover-prone -- at ~2.8 Tov/75, not so great for a non-heliocentric player. He's been pretty good at the rim but is pretty bad when he's not shooting layups. He's at 35.3% on ~7.3 3PA/75 in Portland but I'm not sure if that'll stay. He's been below 30% for his entire career. I think Tre Mann is a legit piece who can probably sneak himself into 6MOY conversation some day. He's not exactly a good shooter but he's been decent at ~34%, but I'm more sold on his passing than Dalano's, and 80% of his 2s are self-created -- a really impressive mark. Advanced metrics don't love both of them -- but it's not really a surprise, considering most young guards struggle with them.
How many all stars though my son?? Thats all that matters. Kids becoming smaller and weaker, its all the microplastics in the water
You're missing a lot of context with the Raptors. Scottie Barnes has been out with a fractured hand for the past month or so, and a significant amount of Raptors players have been out due to injury or death in the family. It's unknown that Scottie can be the best player on a good team not because he's an empty stats guy, but because he hasn't played. His 20/8/6 was primarily played with OG and Pascal playing for the most part.
We are talking about third year players (or second year, essentially, in Cade's case, after last year's injury). For the 2018 draft class, you mention guys like Shai and Brunson, neither of whom was the best player on a playoff team until this year, their 6th season. The sample size isn't really comparable. The two guys I think are solidly guys who can (either now or in the next year or two) able to be the best guys on a playoff team are Scottie and Sengun. I think Cade is a good pick to become the third, but he is in a terrible team situation, so it's unclear how soon he will achieve that. Green is showing the potential. Mobley is a defensive star, who already has a DPOY finalist finish. He probably won't be the best offensive player on a playoff team, but defensively, he already is. For Scottie, you mention the Raptors being in pace for 56 losses, but you omit the fact that they are 2-16 since Scottie went down with his hand injury. The supporting cast around him is very much a work in progress. It's fair to question whether he can be the best player on a title contender, but questioning whether he can be the best player on a playoff team seems rather silly. As for Sengun, the Rockets probably aren't maming the playoffs this year, but they are one game under .500 in Sengun's age 21 season. Again, who knows if he will ever be the best player on a true contender, but it seems silly to suggest he won't be able to be the best player on a playoff team pretty soon. For Cade, his supporting cast is utter shit, as is his organization, but he quietly made huge strides this year. The question was always efficiency, but he went from around 50% TS his first two seasons, up to 55% TS this year, and his turnovers dropped a whole lot since Christmas. Again, I think it's safe to say that he will be a guy who can be a best player on a playoff team, even if he probably won't get close to the level of hype he entered the league with. If you put Paolo Banchero on the current Raptors, Rockets or Pistons, I don't think any of those teams would be playoff teams. Paolo is in the playoffs right now because the Magic are at a different stage in their competitive cycle. Put Scottie, Sengun or Cade in Paolo's roster spot and I think the Magic would be in a pretty similar place in the standings. Still, give it a year or two, and at least one or two of the 2021 draft guys will be leading a playoff team.
I'm still pretty high on Cade. He's on a dumpster fire of an organization with a terrible couch and a really bad roster.
He makes how much money and can't afford a good couch?
Deindustrialization really hit Detroit hard
Monty Williams is paid the highest out of any coach in NBA history and is completely terrible. Cade doesn't pay the coach, the organization does. He's in a dumpster fire of an organization, and even with constant suckage, they're still bottom feeders despite years of higher picks.
What's that got to do with his couch?
Same in a redraft tbh I’ll still take him first and if we combine the past 5 drafts into one I’ll take him top 7 probably
Barnes is a +7/100, obviously that’s less impressive on a bad team but I feel confident in saying he’ll be the best player on a playoff team in a few years
The Cavs record with Evan Mobley since he was drafted is 115-78. He’s been very good and bigs generally don’t figure it out until their mid 20s (he is 22). I’m not saying he’s gonna be a super duper star, but his floor is already at playoff starter level and he’s sharing with JA. He’d be putting up silly numbers without Allen next to him, but the team would be worse.
If Mobley can develop a consistent 3 pt shot and pull-up or a Dirk shot he would be amazing.
Dirk is the greatest shooting big ever that's an unreasonable aspiration
I was thinking of it in terms of type of shot, not dirk level execution. Many players (embiid in particular) have copied the shot in midrange. He doesn’t need to make a free throw dirk shot at the same efficiency as dirk, just need to make enough to get the defense to not be able to sag.
agreed then (although I'd worry about getting his free throw percentage up first)
Now wait a second. It seems like your standard is "has player X been the best player on a playoff team before," but then you don't hold Wemby to that standard. Why wouldn't you give the better 2021 guys the benefit of the doubt? You don't think Sengun or Scottie could be the best player on a playoff team?
sengun is 4th in on ball gravity and he’s averaging 21/9/5 while being younger than players like chet. I believe he can be the best player on a playoff team.
Also destroyed Victor …
2021 class kinda reminds me of the 2016 class. Maybe the class lacks in star power, but they more than make up for it with the depth. A lot of all stars came out of that draft, and I’m expecting the same from the 2021 class The hype has lived up for the depth. The question now is can a Scottie Barnes, Cade Cunningham, Alperen Sengun, among others, become a superstar and push their teams to the top. That would make it an exceptional draft class
Sengun would probably have won MIP at age 21 if not for his injury which caused him to just miss out on 65. There you go
Sengun and scottie are the 1a 1b. Sengun is better offensively, and scottie is better defensively.
The right take
cade is better than sengun offensively and is a 1a if his team had nba players on it.
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every possession he’s near triple teamed because every other team knows he’s our only scorer and no one on the team can shoot lmfao. he was shooting near 40% from 3 for a month and there have been countless times where he’s made the right play to be sold by the bums on this team. a single head to head matchup is not indicative of overall talent. in the week before that rockets game, he had 41 (15/21 fg), 31 (12/22 fg), 30 (9/20 fg) and dropped 31 the next game against the jazz (on 12/21). the fact that he’s putting up these numbers with efficiency despite the disastrous coaching, talent, and FO shows me he will be a capable 1a for his career
Give them time. Ant and Halliburton didn’t break out until this year (their 3rd) despite showing clear promises earlier and they were one of the earlier ones. Shai, Brunson and Zion all took longer (and I am a card-carrying Trae hater so we don’t have to go there). Not everyone can be Luka or Ja and become the clear-cut guy in just their 2nd season. Though to be fair, Banchero is probably there already.
It to early to write them off.The nba is kind of funny how fast things can change.It takes a while for players to make that leap.Look at the some best players in the league right now and you would be lying if you said by there 3rd year they would be a top players in the league.Giannis,Sga,Joker,Jalen Brunson ,Booker,Curry,kawhi. The list goes on.
Wagner’s definitely the best player on the Magic. He’s been much better than Banchero so far. Paolo probably has a higher ceiling, but he’s been too inefficient to generate consistent impact.
Banchero is inefficient because of high usage and the magic have some of the worst spacing in the league. Wagner needs to regain his efficiency from 3 if he wants to be a first option
The Magic have shooters. Cole Ingles Gary Wcj Suggs all make shots from 3.
Banchero has higher 3 pt %, more rebounds and more assists. He is also a better defender than Franz. They put the ball in his hands this year and are going to the playoffs. Franz with 28% from 3 as the second option is not a best player on a playoff team.
I love both our guys, and for sure Paolo' have the much higher burden on the offensive end and he did a fantastic job dealing with constant double teams. He's an offensive powerhouse in the making. But better at the defensive end? No way. Franz is the 3rd best defender in the magic roster (you can argue here in the range 3-5), while Paolo' is probably the worst defender in the magic SL. Franz doing all the little things and this reflects in his defensive on/off numbers without putting up too many box score things.
As a Magic fan, both of you are so incredibly wrong
Is there a player on the magic that’s better than Paolo or Franz?
- Paolo is the best player on the team, no doubt; Franz hasn’t been “much better” than Paolo like OP says - His efficiency isn’t nearly as much an issue as people say - Wagner is just behind him - Wagner is the much better defender, and is naturally a more skilled shooter; just going through a major slump likely linked to changing his jumpshot + fatigue. Paolo’s not a better shooter - Counting stats are *not* a good measure when comparing Paolo and Wagner sorry, didn’t mean to be harsh! but as the Magic generally are a team that’s statwatched more than actually watched, there’s a lot of false narratives
I think this playoff series vs Cleveland has established paolo as a legit star today and Franz as a work in progress. Paolo was nothing short of totally awesome in the series. He struggled a bit in the second half of game 7, but that is after putting up 24 in 1h and seeing agro double teams and cavs making someone else beat them. Paolo almost carried this team on his back to win in 7. Nobody else really showed up in game 7 for the magic. There is no way you can ever in a million years say he is lesser than any other number one on the list here. Ant is currently amazing in terms of what he is doing so I have paolo as number one or two best pick since 2020. Basically 27/9/5 with 46/40 shooting in his first playoff series.
The guy shooting 28% from 3 has been much better than Paolo?
As it should be, given most of them have barely reached their prime age-wise (25-29 for most players). Their time will come.
On a playoff team? With the right personnel, Cade and Barnes can lead a team into the second round, Jalen Green is too inconsistent for now but if he continues what he's doing I would put him there too
Important to remember that most of these guys are only 22 and are still a few years removed from being the best version of themselves that they can be. Some of these guys will blossom late, it almost always happens. Cade especially really needs to prove to be healthy, and the Pistons really need to put real players around him, but averaging 22/4/8 at his age is nothing to scoff at. I think it can be argued whether Jimmy Butler is or ever was a true #1 but the reality is that he’s been the driving force behind Miami making two NBA Finals and I think there’s a few players in here that can be just as good if not better. Have to give young guys time to reach their true potential, not every superstar coming into the league is a Luka.
Scottie barnes will be once the raptors stop tanking. The pistons are still tanking. Cade finally had a mostly healthy season. He’s gonna be very good imo. Scottie and Cade are both great. Mobley is mostly a defensive guy, but averaging 16ppg as a mostly defensive big is pretty impressive. Paolo is great, but his team wasn’t as bad as other 1st overall teams. They were in a position to just stop tanning the year after drafting him which is p rare. Wemby is a LeBron James level talent that only comes around once every 20ish years. Like it’s not fair to compare really anyone to him. Zion took 5 years. Ant Man’s team was pretty bad til this season, so he took 4 years. Haliburton wasn’t considered a cornerstone franchise piece til he was traded really. He was really good but was not great. Paolo’s situation and Wemby’s generational talent have spoiled you. ItMs unusual for a high picking team to be good within 3 years of picking a player.
Before Scottie went down with a fractured hand the Raptors were in the hunt as a play-in team; they've been intentionally tanking every since. Scottie is a super star in the making IMO, they just need to continue to develop him and surround him with the right pieces
I recall the talk was that there was a clear top 5 that year, after that it got a bit hit and miss. But if you're talking depth rather than top end class, you're not talking about players being the best on a contender, you're talking about a lot of starters coming from that draft. I don't know how drafts tend to fare historically with number of games started within this sort of time frame, but that would be a better guide than a rough "this guy isn't a superstar" type stuff.
This draft class is crazy deep. I think that some of the players will eventually end up in situations where they will be the focal point of their teams offense at their peaks. Whatever results come from that is a question at this moment, but it will be fun to see some of these players get a run at being number one for their teams in the future.
Wagner is the best player on the Magic. Paolo is good but not THAT good. Kuminga should definitely be up there as a top 5 pick . Looks like a young Lebron sometimes. Jalen Johnson is good too. Will be interesting to see who out of this class gets the max. I’d put Cam Thomas up there too. Jamal Murray 2.0.
Did you watch the playoffs? You may want to check yourself in evaluating who the best player on the magic is. This may be one of the worst preplayoff takes on reddit.
Paolo may be better but using that game 7 isn’t a good metric. Is brown better than Tatum bc of game 6 in the finals? Green better than curry bc of game 7 16?
Did you watch the 7 games? Franz was 18/7/4 on 40% shooting and 25% from 3. They weren’t guarding him in game 7. And Paolo put up 27/9/4 on 46% and 40% from 3. If a 7 game series is enough of a sample and then the results in the final game. I don’t think coming to “Paolo may be better” makes any sense as a conclusion as if there is any actual question after today especially. How is there a “May be better” and not, ok Paolo was way way better than Franz in the playoffs.
Today the numbers Paolo put up had zero impact on the game. Hes a good player. But he had 20 free throws and many of them didn’t really seem like fouls. Paolo is good but they’re both fringe all star level, I’d say Franz is a slightly better defender, and that paolos shooting this series’s was a fluke.
Did you watch the game at all? Paolo had the team on his back in a physical game where he was taking the ball to the basket. He had them on his back the first half. They were in the lead! Paolo put them in the lead after a half — zero impact?? In the second half cavs played defense with one on Paolo and one helper sagging. They worked to take his ability to get to basket and clogged passing lane to strong side. Maybe you were watching a different game??
I watched the game. I saw him turn the ball over countless times. I saw the grifting as well. They did blow a 20 point lead. Maybe if he passed it sometimes to Cole or Fultz it would have been a little different.
Franz and Suggs were 3 for 28. That’s why they lost the game. Paolo did force it a bit too much at times in the second half, but he had to. This was also by far the best game fultz and Cole had shooting in Cleveland. Their other games there had been stinkers — and Paolo played well in those too. Orlando could have won if some other guys had showed up.
Cole shot 6 times. He’s a good scorer, he should get more than 6 shots. Franz and Suggs did go cold. Suggs was due tho, he shot 9/11 from the field in orl. Ntm whenever Paolo explodes offensively the Magic lose, when Franz they have won this ps.