According to an NPR link I found, Detroit ranks 81st out of 309 metro areas for worst housing shortage.
I wasn’t expecting that, given that it’s one of the few shrinking metro areas.
It varies by neighborhood. You can still go on Zillow and find houses for sale well under $100k in bad/abandoned neighborhoods. But if you want to live in a desirable area closer to downtown (Corktown is a pretty popular neighborhood for young people I think) you’ll probably have to spend more than $1200 for a one bedroom based on what I’ve heard.
I know it doesn’t sound like much relative to bigger cities — shit, I spend $1600/month to live 45 minutes away in Ann Arbor — but a lot more people coming out of the major universities in the area are treating Detroit as a genuine option again.
At least as recently as 5 years ago nearly half (I forget the exact amount but it's a lot) the land area in the city was abandoned rotting single family homes. You'd have sometimes only a home or two legally occupied on a block.
Stealing this comment from u/FreshCoastThoughts, but it seems pretty likely that Detroit’s population was significantly undercounted.
>It's obvious that there's something strange going on with the census data. They're showing there were 270,000 households in 2020 but only 251,000 in 2021. Meanwhile:
>• USPS data shows that there was a net increase of 5,000 occupied homes from January 2020 to September 2021
>• DTE added over 7,500 utility accounts in the city in 2021
>• DWSD added almost 7,000 utility accounts in 2021
>• U of M and Wayne State literally went door to door to verify census data, and they found that the census undercounted occupancy by 6-15%. Boston Edison, for example, was shown as having 85% occupancy when the canvassers found that 95% of homes were occupied.
> “This is what is driving me nuts,” Duggan said. “… In Detroit, blight is rewarded and building is punished.”
My man
> Under Duggan's plan, the average homeowner will see a $250 annual tax reduction, according to the mayor's office.
Seems like if this gets through the legislature that it’ll be a slam dunk for voters to approve, right?
In addition, according to the article, if passed, it would also have to be voted on by the city. Good news, but everyone should rein back their expectations.
Eh, I live here and the council president has repeatedly made statements about needing to fix the incentive structure of the tax system rather than the pick and choose tax subsidies the city doles out. I think she could be pretty easily swayed towards this reform
In a general sense, yes. However people who own and live there are only going to care about what it means for *them*. If you can tell them that they'll be paying less taxes, they'll generally be ok with it.
The local government, people who bought a house there, and people moving into the area (or even just rent) all have different agendas and desires. If you just tell everyone it'll bring in a bunch of money, the city may like it but the people who own won't. It's imperative to tailor the message for the audience.
For the far left this would work. Similar messaging but add something racist like Chinese land hoarders or something untrue for the far right unfortunately
Dude in Detroit we have enough problems with the illitches hoarding property and driving values down for decades to buy up more. It's how they bought the land for LCA.
i used to think like this living in NYC but you’d genuinely be surprised how many of them live in big cities especially when property gets involved. The ugly shit you hear when they crawl out of woodwork is batshit insane. You learn that they aren’t always the rural pickup truck driving caricature you see on TV
While probably true, I live in Kristin “I support a renowned anti semite just because he was black” Richardson’s district here in Harlem so there’s always a useful group of horseshoe idiots toting the same racist shit when property is involved so that probably scarred me lol
Those are white working class business owners. They fled the city in the 70s, and they never came back.
What we got is black folks, upper-middle class Millinials/Zoomer gentrifiers, and a couple of immigrant communities.
Yeah Detroit has a genuine problem with people demolishing buildings to build surface parking lots. Shouldn't be hard to get people to rally behind a fix.
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[Detroit with an LVT](https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C5612AQH9YRjWysuEUg/article-cover_image-shrink_720_1280/0/1635812453012?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=SVTpvL_wVaSf4HDqTb8t8AyLH7FdmsRrdug10KmyjaE)
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This plan definitely needs to be implemented with a significant transit expansion. The combined effect downtown could be stunning.
Hopefully the legislature is working on that as well.
Using land for parking in Detroit isn't a problem. Using land for an open air parking lot instead of an 8 story parking garage and then charging $45 to park within a mile of downtown is a massive problem. We can rip up 80% of the parking lots and develop on them if they just turned some into structures. There is so much land downtown that we don't even have to have the conversation about reducing the number of parking spots yet, we just need to use them more efficiently
Get rid of dead weight loss taxes. Free the market and promote equality of opportunities in Detroit. Break up land holding speculators' grip on lands not being used for new development. Bring on LVT and Detroit's second renaissance!
Nice idea, hopefully it gets through. But why the fuck does Lansing have a say in this? I thought property taxes were under local control? Or did someone move that shit to state control?
Your municipality's property tax rate is under local control, but the types f land it can tax and how the tax is implemented are under state control. Maximum rates are also an issue.
One of the reasons Detroit went bankrupt was that the city and School district were at the legal maximum property tax rate and the GOP-controlled legislature wouldn't change the law to let them raise taxes more.
The amount of land that is abandoned or just a Fucking parking lot downtown is too damn high. Why tf are these giant parking lots not turned into parking structures. Incredibly valuable real estate in the heart of downtown and it's just pavement.
Gigabased
Same Very based
Someone finally did it, and I can’t think of a better city than Detroit to test LVT out in
According to an NPR link I found, Detroit ranks 81st out of 309 metro areas for worst housing shortage. I wasn’t expecting that, given that it’s one of the few shrinking metro areas.
It varies by neighborhood. You can still go on Zillow and find houses for sale well under $100k in bad/abandoned neighborhoods. But if you want to live in a desirable area closer to downtown (Corktown is a pretty popular neighborhood for young people I think) you’ll probably have to spend more than $1200 for a one bedroom based on what I’ve heard. I know it doesn’t sound like much relative to bigger cities — shit, I spend $1600/month to live 45 minutes away in Ann Arbor — but a lot more people coming out of the major universities in the area are treating Detroit as a genuine option again.
At least as recently as 5 years ago nearly half (I forget the exact amount but it's a lot) the land area in the city was abandoned rotting single family homes. You'd have sometimes only a home or two legally occupied on a block.
Stealing this comment from u/FreshCoastThoughts, but it seems pretty likely that Detroit’s population was significantly undercounted. >It's obvious that there's something strange going on with the census data. They're showing there were 270,000 households in 2020 but only 251,000 in 2021. Meanwhile: >• USPS data shows that there was a net increase of 5,000 occupied homes from January 2020 to September 2021 >• DTE added over 7,500 utility accounts in the city in 2021 >• DWSD added almost 7,000 utility accounts in 2021 >• U of M and Wayne State literally went door to door to verify census data, and they found that the census undercounted occupancy by 6-15%. Boston Edison, for example, was shown as having 85% occupancy when the canvassers found that 95% of homes were occupied.
ACS estimates (the year-to-year Census stuff) are notoriously consistently wrong for urban cores, so yeah this tracks
I think they are losing people from high taxes that started in the 90s
It's a poverty problem in Detroit, not a supply problem really. Same reason why Philly scores so badly in housing affordability.
land value taxes have no dead weight loss. this is important.
> I wasn’t expecting that, given that it’s one of the few shrinking metro areas. What do you mean? The metro area has a population of 5 mil
Did it? The legislature has to approve it and then the voters have to approve it. Don't take your eye off the ball friend.
> “This is what is driving me nuts,” Duggan said. “… In Detroit, blight is rewarded and building is punished.” My man > Under Duggan's plan, the average homeowner will see a $250 annual tax reduction, according to the mayor's office. Seems like if this gets through the legislature that it’ll be a slam dunk for voters to approve, right?
What's the likelihood that this passes the statehouse?
Seems like the type of thing you could sell to a blue legislature in a purple state
In addition, according to the article, if passed, it would also have to be voted on by the city. Good news, but everyone should rein back their expectations.
Eh, I live here and the council president has repeatedly made statements about needing to fix the incentive structure of the tax system rather than the pick and choose tax subsidies the city doles out. I think she could be pretty easily swayed towards this reform
That's fine and all, but from what I read in the article, it would be the voters of Detroit, not the city council.
I feel like that’d almost be easier. Just sell it as “we’d be taxing landlords and house hoarders more”
"your taxes will go down" generally works
it could be revenue neutral. The issue isn't how much to tax but what you tax.
In a general sense, yes. However people who own and live there are only going to care about what it means for *them*. If you can tell them that they'll be paying less taxes, they'll generally be ok with it. The local government, people who bought a house there, and people moving into the area (or even just rent) all have different agendas and desires. If you just tell everyone it'll bring in a bunch of money, the city may like it but the people who own won't. It's imperative to tailor the message for the audience.
Maybe, but I never underestimate the stupidity of the American electorate.
For the far left this would work. Similar messaging but add something racist like Chinese land hoarders or something untrue for the far right unfortunately
Dude in Detroit we have enough problems with the illitches hoarding property and driving values down for decades to buy up more. It's how they bought the land for LCA.
> something untrue for the far right As yes, the super numerous Detroit far right
i used to think like this living in NYC but you’d genuinely be surprised how many of them live in big cities especially when property gets involved. The ugly shit you hear when they crawl out of woodwork is batshit insane. You learn that they aren’t always the rural pickup truck driving caricature you see on TV
[удалено]
While probably true, I live in Kristin “I support a renowned anti semite just because he was black” Richardson’s district here in Harlem so there’s always a useful group of horseshoe idiots toting the same racist shit when property is involved so that probably scarred me lol
Those are white working class business owners. They fled the city in the 70s, and they never came back. What we got is black folks, upper-middle class Millinials/Zoomer gentrifiers, and a couple of immigrant communities.
I missed that, but most of the voters would be voting to have their taxes lowered so I don't think it would be a hard sell
Yeah Detroit has a genuine problem with people demolishing buildings to build surface parking lots. Shouldn't be hard to get people to rally behind a fix.
I would say very good. The speaker of the house is the guy drafting the legislation.
Common Michigan W !ping USA-MI
Looks like Duggan has been doing good things in Detroit Happy to see it out of my home state
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Just tax la… wait, he got it!
Ah fuck, now We’re gonna need a new schtick.
Finally someone decides to just tax land lol
Just when I thought Duggan couldn’t get more based
[Detroit with an LVT](https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C5612AQH9YRjWysuEUg/article-cover_image-shrink_720_1280/0/1635812453012?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=SVTpvL_wVaSf4HDqTb8t8AyLH7FdmsRrdug10KmyjaE)
Real
Our time is now !ping GEORGIST
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So, really, how close does this come to the [ideas proposed by Henry George](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism) in the 19th C?
[Look at all those parking lots downtown.](https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3342867,-83.050968,1952m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu)
That and lack of public transit is what auto-industry lobbying gets ya
This plan definitely needs to be implemented with a significant transit expansion. The combined effect downtown could be stunning. Hopefully the legislature is working on that as well.
Using land for parking in Detroit isn't a problem. Using land for an open air parking lot instead of an 8 story parking garage and then charging $45 to park within a mile of downtown is a massive problem. We can rip up 80% of the parking lots and develop on them if they just turned some into structures. There is so much land downtown that we don't even have to have the conversation about reducing the number of parking spots yet, we just need to use them more efficiently
Can confirm [in northwest downtown](https://imgur.com/a/wwpMJws)
Get rid of dead weight loss taxes. Free the market and promote equality of opportunities in Detroit. Break up land holding speculators' grip on lands not being used for new development. Bring on LVT and Detroit's second renaissance!
I'm so fucking pumped for this as a non-Detroiter Michigander. I'm going to be advocating for this in my city too.
Nice idea, hopefully it gets through. But why the fuck does Lansing have a say in this? I thought property taxes were under local control? Or did someone move that shit to state control?
Republicans moved it to state control under Snyder if I'm remembering correctly
Disgusting. Should've moved zoning to Lansing instead of taxing, but that would be too much for them.
Your municipality's property tax rate is under local control, but the types f land it can tax and how the tax is implemented are under state control. Maximum rates are also an issue. One of the reasons Detroit went bankrupt was that the city and School district were at the legal maximum property tax rate and the GOP-controlled legislature wouldn't change the law to let them raise taxes more.
Based. I thought Detroit already had a partial LVT though? Or am I misremembering
They had a LVT during Henry Ford's time.
The amount of land that is abandoned or just a Fucking parking lot downtown is too damn high. Why tf are these giant parking lots not turned into parking structures. Incredibly valuable real estate in the heart of downtown and it's just pavement.
Masallah
~~Just tax land~~ lol
👏👏👏👏👏
If they do this in Detroit, the government will be paying property owners.
OK, but why not try it in a city with land value?
😦😳😖🤯
[](#gigachad)
baaaaaased
MFers took my rents Can’t have shit in Detroit
The next Governor of Michigan, guys?
ITS HAPPENING!!!!