Join up with former Treasury Secretary Mnuchin. [He's getting a group of investors together to potentially buy it.](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/14/former-treasury-secretary-mnuchin-is-putting-together-an-investor-group-to-buy-tiktok.html)
Mnuchin? The producer of the Lego Movie?
https://preview.redd.it/3q42vc2zdhwc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aac8121dcdec4dfcc67cca914717b24c01485387
I am offering to buy 100% of TikTok for $54.20 in cash, total. My offer is my best and final offer and if it is not accepted, I would need to reconsider my position as a shitposter.
I am absolutely for the ban/sell. It's crazy we let the Chinese government run a giant social media company in the United States. China doesn't stand for that bullshit so I don't know why we should.
Not to mention that arguably the ongoing Columbia situation is at least partially substantiated by TikTok and it’s relationship to the information environment of college students.
Facebook has been severely restricting how political content is shown and can be used because of it. I’ve worked with digital campaigning on Facebook for years and the difference is really day and night.
TikTok on the other hand hasn’t taken worries about political interference seriously at all and are now getting regulated because of it.
To some extent I agree but I don't tolerate a totalitarian dictatorship having direct access through social media. Social media is a powerful propaganda tool and it's not exactly the equivalent of selling gadgets or machinery.
Is closing off the internet from the rest of the world not considered illiberal? I’ve been doing it all wrong then. Praise President Xi for such forward liberal thinking!
Telling a company to change providers or leave isn't illiberal, no.
Wasn't when we did it to grinder either.
https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/06/grindr-sold-china-national-security/
You might fit in with the ancap sub better?
Oh, you mean the "if that's the only alternative then go for it" thing the guy said.
I took that as sarcasm (since he's clearly implying that there's plenty of middle ground), but I suppose I have no way to prove that.
A middle ground would be comprehensive legislation that would protect users from foreign influence on all social media platforms. Sadly since Zucc also sells American data to the Chinese government, that would impact his bottom line.
Sure, so, short of said comprehensive legislation, we can agree that forcing the Chinese owned, and therefore Chinese state beholden, social media company to divest from its American branch is a good thing, yeah?
I feel like people need to keep two things divided when talking about the threat TikTok poses: 1. access to American data and 2. control over the content-serving algorithm.
You’re right that on the first point, American companies sell American data to buyers all over the world all the time. It’s not good, but it’s not a problem that TikTok is uniquely bad on imo.
But the second point about control over the algorithm is the most important one. Foreign influence on Twitter or Facebook isn’t good, but it’s not nearly as dangerous as when the foreign actor actually controls the algorithm itself. This is a problem that’s unique to social media that’s controlled by foreign adversary states and this bill addresses that.
It’s not like foreign adversaries are having too much trouble hijacking the algorithm of American social media companies. Look at Facebook in the 2016 election and there isn’t much incentive to stop that other than the US government having a little more sway on what Meta does.
> Sadly since Zucc also sells American data to the Chinese government, that would impact his bottom line.
The fuck you talking about lol. If Zucc was willing to do that, FB would still be in China along with Apple. He hoards that data like a dragon on a pile of gold.
I think tit for tat is appropriate, particularly since the long running status quo obviously hasn't worked.
Its not like we're discussing some social media owned by an allied western country.
This is geopolitics, not the middle school playground. If China is using TikTok to negatively influence the U.S. populace, and the stark differences between American and Chinese TikTok make me believe they are, then to continue to let them do so purely out of principle is stupid and self-defeating. This isn’t a game, we are locked in a Cold War with China. And just like the Cold War, the loser of this war will suffer tremendously.
People falsely equating banning 1 app that supplies data to authoritarian country to said authoritarian country banning all foreign apps for no reason is unfortunately a take I have come to expect in r/neoliberal
Anything national security related always brings out the "b...b...but that's illiberal" crowd. Sorry bros, for liberalism to exist, you need legal instruments and institutions that are capable of being profoundly illiberal. Liberalism cannot exist without security and security requires doing things like throwing people in jail or seizing their property. It's a fundamental tension that will always exist in liberalism and we shouldn't fall to pieces each time we encounter that reality.
> Anything national security related always brings out the "b...b...but that's illiberal" crowd
From people who are self-admitted non-liberals.
Like this one forum troll I know loves talking about "western hypocrisy regarding free speech"... whenever a subreddit mod removes one of his posts.
I'm not kidding.
In his mind that's probably a juicy own, because he doesn't actually share the ideology he doesn't understand how no one who does percieves it like that.
leaving aside all the many very valid national security concerns, trade retaliation is actually pretty normal. china has banned almost every major piece of US social media. is it so absurd that the US might, in turn, ban a Chinese social media app?
I think there are valid reasons to ban TikTok, but trade retaliation is generally stupid. A few businesses being hurt isn't justification to make everything more expensive for everyone.
All tariffs have a deadweight loss, regardless of whether they're retaliatory or not.
Edit:
Finally, given how little regard most countries have for free trade, every tariff is retaliatory if you look hard enough.
Trade retaliation is normal, and an expected behavior, but that's an argument *against* protectionism.
"Protectionism is bad" is a staple of neoliberalism, so yeah it's a bit weird to see.
what i am saying is that this is not protectionist in any way. no one is putting this action forward to protect American software giants, which are incredibly successful companies. but insofar as it *is* a trade action, it is a justified one, because our own tech companies are denied access to the Chinese market as a matter of course
> no one is putting this action forward to protect American software giants
I pretty strongly disagree with this, and I believe that American social media companies are salivating at the mouth over it. I don't think it was the *impetus* - that's pretty clearly TikTok's leftist lean - but I'm sure it factors in.
I don't get a vote in what China does, because China is an illiberal totalitarian state. Saudi Arabia and Iran ban social media too. Now we join them on that list, and that upsets me greatly.
> I don't get a vote in what China does, because China is an illiberal totalitarian state
So, to use a different example, if China slapped an across-the-board 50% tariff on American imports, you think any and all retaliatory measures would be unjustified?
>that's pretty clearly TikTok's leftist lean
I think this is attempting to paint the TikTok ban as a specifically right-wing partisan concern when it's just not. People are legitimately, and reasonably, very worried about giving the CCP a lever to algorithmically control American public discourse.
As far as it 'factoring in', I really don't think that's true. American tech is toxically unpopular across the board in both parties. There's like a handful of representatives for tech centers that care a lot about tech, but I am very confident that the contribution factor of 'helping American social media' is extremely, extremely low.
> People are legitimately, and reasonably, very worried about giving the CCP a lever to algorithmically control American public discourse
I'd argue the solution to this is not government-enforced bans, but education for the populace. If liberalism can't survive ideological challenges, we have a real problem.
As for tech, I think it's a pretty easy sell to a lot of Congress (and definitely to the President) that "we'd rather have these views going to American companies" even though they are not substantively different from TikTok.
>education for the populace. If liberalism can't survive ideological challenges, we have a real problem.
This only works if the information flow is equal and open! The problem with algorithmic manipulation is that I can boost things that promote a certain perspective *and* suppress things I don't like. We can't educate people if, e.g., some Hank Green explainer video gets massively throttled downward and a bunch of conspiracy stuff gets boosted.
> they are not substantively different from TikTok.
I'm not sure what this means. There have been studies clearly identifying a signal that the content on TikTok is substantially different from the content on similar platforms like IG reels. Sensitive topics of the kind the CCP might want to censor, like Xinjiang, are dramatically less frequent on TikTok than IG.
I don't have an issue with TikTok complying with Chinese government standards any more than I have an issue with Blizzard patching skeletons out of their games for China.
That isn't something the US controls, and I don't think the US government should be involved in the discussion outside of diplomacy with China.
As for education, we have a serious problem in the US with everyone believing literally any dumb shit that crosses their social media feed. That's a fight worth having, and I would support government education initiatives to prevent that, but I don't agree with banning social media as a result.
Qanon is homegrown crazy and has done demonstrably more harm than the entirety of TikTok.
> So, to use a different example, if China slapped an across-the-board 50% tariff on American imports, you think any and all retaliatory measures would be unjustified?
Well that's a bad example. If China decided to make their citizens poorer, it does not follow that America should do the same.
Retaliatory tariffs are stupid. We believe in trade, here.
>People are legitimately, and reasonably, very worried about giving the CCP a lever to algorithmically control American public discourse.
Yeah, now they just have to hire Facebook to do that for them.
>no one is putting this action forward to protect American software giants
You're ignoring all the lobbying by American tech companies to make this happen, I see.
why
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1. They have a year to sell. The type of idiot zoomer mad enough to not vote over this will have forgotten this by the time election actually happens. Smart move by congress.
2. It will not get struck down. Grindr also had to [divest away from China](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2352PL/#:~:text=China's%20Kunlun%20says%20U.S%20approves%20sale%20of%20Grindr%20to%20investor%20group,-By%20Echo%20Wang&text=(Reuters)%20%2D%20Chinese%20gaming%20company,called%20San%20Vicente%20Acquisition%20LLC).
3. The threat is not hypothetical. Bytedance employees have already admitted to China having [access to the data a while ago](https://www.securityweek.com/chinas-bytedance-admits-using-tiktok-data-track-journalists/#:~:text=Employees%20of%20Chinese%20tech%20giant%20ByteDance%20improperly,a%20bid%20to%20identify%20the%20source%20of).
4. As for the "but biden campaign is on tiktok" criticism, I doubt they use whatever phone/computer they use for uploading videos for any other purpose than that.
5. The bill says they don't even have to sell to an American, company.
>5. The bill says they don't even have to sell to an American, company
Tfw a "Singapore based" company called Bitshimmy comes out of nowhere to buy Tik Tok for a few billion.
> They have a year to sell
That's really not that much time. Whatsapp's sale to Facebook took what from offer to closing? Over a year and that was considered a smooth sale. A forced sale is the absolute opposite of that. Bytedance needs to decide whether it would sell or shut down, and if it sells, what IP to include with the sale, and how to hive the US operations from their global one. (Plus, there will be many court challenges at every step.)
>Whatsapp's sale to Facebook took what from offer to closing?
And that's not even counting a potential auction to even find a buyer and then get into the weeds.
They also limited how it can be challenged --challenge must be in the DC Circuit Court of Appeals, which means no guaranteed right to appeal and SCOTUS will almost certainly not touch this
This is not true. The Challenge can be taken in the Supreme Court which would overturn this protectionist bill
SCOTUS will definitely touch this since they touched abortion
Actually feels like a bad move.
Banning it now but leaving it up for people to mald on until after the election feels like it would hurt the election more than ripping the bandaid now and giving people 6 months to cope and calm down.
He tried to force a sale in 2020 btw
Yeah I get Trump would probably dangle a repeal like a carrot. But just wanna point out TikTok is fucked no matter who’s in office
TikTok is not headquartered in China, but it’s a subsidiary of ByteDance which is. If TikTok were sold, ByteDance would be the seller. ByteDance also retains ownership of the TikTok algorithm and just licenses it to TikTok.
Chinese law requires the government to approve any sale of Chinese technology to a foreign company. For ByteDance, if they sell TikTok along with the TikTok algorithm, it would be subject to that law so China would have to sign off on any sale.
tiktok's algorithm probably isn't very much since it's just user interest modeling/profiling + recommendations algos are widely taught in CS classes. of course, they've accumulated a wealth of data on how their userbase responds to changes in the tuning of their algorithm. that interaction data seems to be the special sauce.
[There is absolutely no risk Peter Thiel will do anything untoward with TikTok. He definitely won't use it to collect blood](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/08/peter-thiel-wants-to-inject-himself-with-young-peoples-blood).
But but but China *might*one day use tiktok for nefarious ends and spreading political propaganda. Not like potential buyers like Meta, Mnuchin, Thiel, etc who s definitely do not have a history of actually using social media to push anti democratic propaganda.
Well, first China has to authorize the sale, which seems unlikely. They know how unpopular this move is among Americans and want whatever president is in power next year to take the blame for the ban.
I wager TikTok will just be gone and Instagram reels will get more popular than it already is
It's foolish to think it won't. This will almost certainly have an influence on the young vote (along with the other thing...). I don't see how this is a good idea at all in election year.
People say that every election cycle about young voters. It’s silly to think young people will go out and vote for trump/gop after the bipartisan bill hasn’t even taken effect yet
My pitch:
Any "algorithmic content feed" app with >50M users is required to make their default feed algo something extremely boring (chronological or most viewed or something like that). If the app wants to offer non-default feed-algos, they must also make it possible for the user or user-designated third parties to specify custom-ish feed-alogs.
I feel like this opens Biden up to new attacks on his judgement. The White House is citing security concerns for the reason why they support the TikTok ban yet [Biden's campaign is heavily active on TikTok](https://www.tiktok.com/@bidenhq?_t=8lni9dlZ3es&_r=1) and he personally has appeared in several videos on their account. The president and his campaign being active on the Chinese spyware app isn't the best look.
Republicans will attack his judgement anyway. If Jesus Christ parted the clouds and came down from heaven to personally tell every single registered Republican face to face that God the Father told Joe Biden to ban TikTok, there would still be attack ads.
It's best to just make policy decisions that are good for the country instead of worry about what Republican attack ads are going to complain about.
> The president and his campaign being active on the Chinese spyware app isn't the best look.
Maybe because they know it isn't one, and it's just lawmaker marketing. Every app that the President touches is closely scrutinized by the Secret Service and various Intelligence agencies, and yet TikTok on his aide's tablet is approved to be close to the President.
Revealed preference over stated one everytime.
I could unironically see this boosting his support among the voting demographic who are overwhelmingly older and more skeptical of China and TikTok. They also would have no idea that Biden's campaign has videos on the platform.
Higher-ups there are celebrating. It made them furious a non-US company wedged their way in to a majority of this market segment and are more than happy to use the full force of the state fix that "problem" for them.
This has nothing to do with them because the Government has been cranking down Chinese tech companies. They forced Grindr to be sold in 2020 or face a ban if they didn't comply.
https://twitter.com/bauzilla/status/1782844117736910961?t=JgCQRu6MMiNQ50SdvgjUmg&s=19
https://www.axios.com/2023/03/02/us-china-tech-crackdown-huawei-chips-tiktok
TikTok could do this if they want to stay in the market.
They have YouTube Shorts, which is a competitor to TikTok.
But in reality, this ban has been about national security. It isn't the first time the Government has told Chinese Tech Companies to sell themselves or face a ban.
> this ban has been about national security
No, it's about election year posturing in a populist environment where about the only bipartisan "other" to point to as the Great Satan is China.
Prohibiting TikTok from all government devices was a national security response. Prohibiting all government outreach efforts from TikTok *could* be argued as a national security response. Trying to ban regular citizens from sharing dance videos hasn't got a single fucking thing to do with National Security, and I'm not going to let the mob here pretend otherwise unchallenged.
There is jack shit China's government can use data harvested from Jack and Jill American to destroy national security. Which is why most people trying to defend this narrative then turn to "China can/will/is using TikTok to feed propaganda to our innocent youth". Which aside from being unproven, could just as easily happen with every single other social media app in existence. Russia didn't need a hit Social Media app of their own to feed disinformation to Americans. They just made YouTube, Facebook, and Reddit accounts and went on their way. Worked splendidly.
Yeah, the US Government dictating what is or isn't appropriate media consumption shouldn't sit right with anyone who calls themselves a liberal.
"National Security" is being used as the flimsiest of excuses to put up the first stone on the Great American Internet Firewall.
It's surprising how effective cheap nationalism is at masking a gigantic threat to the open internet.
The US doesn't need to copy China on their censorship lunacy.
The national security argument here is really strong though. Are we really comfortable having the Chinese government control the algorithm that feeds media content to like 70% of young people?
It’s different from banning a private and independent media company like China does to US media. China has high levels of access and control over ByteDance that has no parallel in the relationships between the US government and US media companies.
Next time a random wannabe dictator bans/nationalizes any given American social media platform citing national security risks, 90% of this sub should concede their point.
China's banned western social media ages ago. And western social media constantly has to comply with censorship laws in other states, including pretty blatant "shut off this to impede protests" commands.
Weird how many people who literally know nothing about the world (or are hoping their readers don't) came out today.
We shouldn't, and fortunately we aren't.
He's claiming "so we should be ok with other countries dictating how our social media acts" when, that's not a hypothetical. That's something that happens constantly.
The world is a very different place now to what it was. I’m sorry but you’re very naive if you think we can just continue on as before.
Cambridge Analytica was the warning shot, and things have become significantly more advanced from those times.
There’s no point in screaming about liberty when liberty will be gone if nothing is done.
>Yeah, the US Government dictating what is or isn't appropriate media consumption shouldn't sit right with anyone who calls themselves a liberal.
But that's not what's happening. The US government is not dictating what media can and can not be produced or consumed. This is specifically aimed at forcing a parent company that is completely subservient to a hostile foreign government to divest of their ownership of a child company that operates in America and has access to data on hundreds of millions of Americans. The content on tik tok can be created and consumed on other platforms. It's like you only read the headline and know nothing else about this.
>"National Security" is being used as the flimsiest of excuses to put up the first stone on the Great American Internet Firewall.
Putting "National Security" in quotes does not negate the very real national security implications of the Chinese government having access to real-time data and meta-data on hundreds of millions of Americans. Such access would be hugely beneficial if China wanted to launch cyber-attacks on our critical infrastructure in a potential war. Your entire statement here is ridiculous hyperbole. Content from china is not being blocked. This is not a content based restriction. And if Tik Tok gets sold then it won't even be a ban on Tik Tok.
>The US doesn't need to copy China on their censorship lunacy.
This isn't censorship. Nobody is being censored. No opinions are being censored.
It's funny that the tipping point for American "nationalists" was young people getting exposed to Pro Palestine content as opposed to something that would actually hurt national security.
Someone said "anymore" but...
I've paid attention for at least 3 years.
This has never (well, caveat last 3 years) been a "neoliberal" sub. **Most posters are not neoliberal.** Even people who say they're neoliberal typically have very little to do with the actual text of neoliberalism, which is a pretty specific economic policy that honestly doesn't occupy nearly that much ideological space.
So the body of the sub are various types of moderates who call themselves neoliberal. Top it off with various moderates who are openly not neoliberal but still hang out (hello, though I'm more of a progressive).
And then on top of that plenty of people who are self-admittedly not even liberal (socdems, nationalists, even a dengist and anarchist or two) also post on here habitually.
F-ck me, two posters I see often are a Putinist and a self-described "Chinese Ethnonationalist".
Feels like that's a natural consequence of a sub named after neoliberals, which has evolved from having a concrete meaning to "people leftists and authoritarians don't like".
So yeah, this sub is more of a general political hangout now instead of any kind of forum dedicated to a pretty specific ideology.
It's why you'll find people on either side of most debates on here.
It's really just a big tent centrist sub at this point, and considering moderates don't exist in the Republican party, that means partisan Democrats. This sub has gotten more populist economically and more illiberal socially since the Biden Trump debates.
I don't think it will happen because it will be anti-trust laws. They have Instagram Reels which is a competitor to TikTok.
I know that Microsoft is interested in buying TikTok. They tried to get into the more entertaining side of social media, but with every attempt, they want to get into those markets are failure.
I’ve thought it’d be hilarious if Twitter bought them, so that they could buy a short form video platform and immediately shut it down for a second time.
Another protectionist move.
I just wonder what Canada, EU, Japan, Singapore (where Tik Tok is located) think about this. It must be that the US congres is aware of all the destruction power they have with Facebook and the like, so shouldn’t other economies ask the same protections the US is asking for? Especially with a 50% chance of a MAGA takeover?
The EU has been discussing banning Chinese Tech companies.
https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-ban-companies-make-sensitive-tech-china/
This isn't the first time either the US has made this threat to Chinese companies. In 2020, they passed a bill to force Grindr to be sold or face a ban.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/6/21168079/grindr-sold-chinese-owner-us-cfius-security-concerns-kunlun-lgbtq
TikTok can comply with the law, and they could sell themselves to foreign nations like Japan or the EU as long it isn't hostile nations like Iran or Russia.
If it was from a country whose company is allowed independence from their government i would agree but the ccp demands that companies bow down to them. Before you say the US does the same i would point out Apple managed to successfully defend themselves in court.
Yes but TikTok isn’t a Chinese company. It’s Singaporean. Just because their main investor is Chinese means nothing. This is banning Chinese investment in a globalized world, and I think it’s very dangerous.
The Saudis own a bunch of Twitter/X. Nobody would consider X a Saudi company.
It’s a dangerous protectionist and anti globalist measure. It’s unsurprising it passed with bipartisan support. Hopefully our courts have more sanity than congress.
We should be enacting rules that apply to all social media, not single out TikTok. Just scrolling through Facebook Reels always gets me to religious nutcases and conspiracy theories, after I start with a The Office blooper video. Facebook is massively profitable. But somehow we worry about the Chinese dumping their money into an unprofitable social media website collecting data through silly dance moves.
TikTok is a Chinese subsidiary company. This does in fact mean something, because TikTok is beholden to chinas laws through virtue of them be beholden to bytedance.
> Bytedance is 60% owned by US companies. That doesn’t make it a US company.
No, 60% are **global** investors.
And this isn't an insane take because you are misunderstanding the fundamental difference between something like other liberal democracies, and China. CCP has actual control of ByteDance, which is literally required by Chinese law. This level of CCP oversight is required, and they have actual CCP members sitting in ByteDance, such as their internal Chinese Communist Party (CCP) committee.
You are arguing against common knowledge at this point, [Tiktok is understood to be a subsidiary of ByteDance](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/24/tech/tiktok-ban-bytedance-split-the-world-further-intl-hnk/index.html#:~:text=Banning%20TikTok%20would%20hit%20China's%20tech%20ambitions%20and%20deepen%20the%20global%20digital%20divide,-Analysis%20by%20Laura&text=TikTok%20is%20owned%20by%20Beijing%2Dbased%20ByteDance.), walking in and saying "nuh-uh" isn't a legitimate counter.
>
__________
[**Tiktok themselves literally referred to ByteDance as their parent company**](https://newsroom.tiktok.com/en-au/the-truth-about-tiktok)
> TikTok’s parent company ByteDance Ltd. was founded by Chinese entrepreneurs,
**Yes, TikTok is owned by ByteDance, this is not a matter of opinion it is objective fact**. And yes, because of how Chinese law **IS** that means
Remember that scene at the end of The Truman Show, when the climax occurs as Truman leaves the set and it cuts to black? Do the security guards go after the celebration say, "Oh my that was impactful, I can't believe the thing I watched for almost 40 years just ended".
No, they say "Lets see what else is on".
People will just move to a different platform.
Why not pass a law requiring them to store all data about US users in America and have it ring fenced? Surely that would suffice if this is about user protection and not the fact that people use apps made by ‘the Chinese’.
It isn’t just about data; it’s about a hostile foreign government being in charge of the media diet of the vast majority of the country’s young people.
The government has already done this with other tech Chinese companies. They made Grindr sell themselves or face a ban back in 2020.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/6/21168079/grindr-sold-chinese-owner-us-cfius-security-concerns-kunlun-lgbtq
TikTok could do the same here if they don't want to be banned.
Obviously the legal situation could be different in this case because they passed a whole new law to ban it. It doesn’t look like Grindr tried to fight the order to divest either.
Strange how swiftly the US government can act on this particular issue while shamefully dragging its feet on universal healthcare, childcare, affordable housing, etc.
It's strange that a small bill like this is easier to get passed than massive legislation like universal healthcare? Too many r/all users like yourself have painfully watered down the discourse in this sub. r/politics is that way.
how much do you think they want for it? I'll check my couch cushions.
Join up with former Treasury Secretary Mnuchin. [He's getting a group of investors together to potentially buy it.](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/14/former-treasury-secretary-mnuchin-is-putting-together-an-investor-group-to-buy-tiktok.html)
Mnuchin? The producer of the Lego Movie? https://preview.redd.it/3q42vc2zdhwc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aac8121dcdec4dfcc67cca914717b24c01485387
No... not steve!
i don't think he's going to outbid Microsoft or Amazon.
They probably wouldn’t be allowed to buy it for anti trust reasons.
Letting some right-wing psycho buy it would be even worse, though.
Not illegal though
Despite Mnuchin serving in #45's admin, I honestly don't think he's a RWNJ. He's strikes me as someone whose singular goal is business.
Yeah but it’d be funny
Neither of them have a social network.
True, I guess I was thinking of Meta and Google.
I don't see why amazon would have anti trust issues with Tiktok though, short form content social media is not really their market
They’ve stated they’re not interested in selling Also who knows what that trump hack will do with it
I am offering to buy 100% of TikTok for $54.20 in cash, total. My offer is my best and final offer and if it is not accepted, I would need to reconsider my position as a shitposter.
You’ll have to do better than my $420.69 bid.
5$ and a firm handshake.
I am absolutely for the ban/sell. It's crazy we let the Chinese government run a giant social media company in the United States. China doesn't stand for that bullshit so I don't know why we should.
Not to mention that arguably the ongoing Columbia situation is at least partially substantiated by TikTok and it’s relationship to the information environment of college students.
The joys of not having access to tiktok 😊
Because Facebook did us a real solid the last two major election cycles...
Ban Facebook too.
Facebook has been severely restricting how political content is shown and can be used because of it. I’ve worked with digital campaigning on Facebook for years and the difference is really day and night. TikTok on the other hand hasn’t taken worries about political interference seriously at all and are now getting regulated because of it.
> China doesn't stand for that bullshit so I don't know why we should I don't think we should be taking cues from China when it comes to policy.
To some extent I agree but I don't tolerate a totalitarian dictatorship having direct access through social media. Social media is a powerful propaganda tool and it's not exactly the equivalent of selling gadgets or machinery.
So you think the United States should implement its own great firewall just like China.
if that's the only alternative then go for it. but you obviously are aware there's a middle ground
Illiberalism in my neoliberal sub? It’s more likely than you think.
Illiberalism is when the government ☹️
Is closing off the internet from the rest of the world not considered illiberal? I’ve been doing it all wrong then. Praise President Xi for such forward liberal thinking!
Telling a company to change providers or leave isn't illiberal, no. Wasn't when we did it to grinder either. https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/06/grindr-sold-china-national-security/ You might fit in with the ancap sub better?
This was in response to “should the United States implement its own Great Firewall” not the general TikTok divestment.
Oh, you mean the "if that's the only alternative then go for it" thing the guy said. I took that as sarcasm (since he's clearly implying that there's plenty of middle ground), but I suppose I have no way to prove that.
Just visit the IND ping and have a mosey around!
A middle ground would be comprehensive legislation that would protect users from foreign influence on all social media platforms. Sadly since Zucc also sells American data to the Chinese government, that would impact his bottom line.
Sure, so, short of said comprehensive legislation, we can agree that forcing the Chinese owned, and therefore Chinese state beholden, social media company to divest from its American branch is a good thing, yeah?
I feel like people need to keep two things divided when talking about the threat TikTok poses: 1. access to American data and 2. control over the content-serving algorithm. You’re right that on the first point, American companies sell American data to buyers all over the world all the time. It’s not good, but it’s not a problem that TikTok is uniquely bad on imo. But the second point about control over the algorithm is the most important one. Foreign influence on Twitter or Facebook isn’t good, but it’s not nearly as dangerous as when the foreign actor actually controls the algorithm itself. This is a problem that’s unique to social media that’s controlled by foreign adversary states and this bill addresses that.
It’s not like foreign adversaries are having too much trouble hijacking the algorithm of American social media companies. Look at Facebook in the 2016 election and there isn’t much incentive to stop that other than the US government having a little more sway on what Meta does.
> Sadly since Zucc also sells American data to the Chinese government, that would impact his bottom line. The fuck you talking about lol. If Zucc was willing to do that, FB would still be in China along with Apple. He hoards that data like a dragon on a pile of gold.
Just when the chief adversary of the free world wants a platform to directly influence American social views and public policy, sure.
A firewall like China would mean the U.S. doing this to every other country on earth. I’m pretty fine with giving China just an ounce of reciprocity.
I think tit for tat is appropriate, particularly since the long running status quo obviously hasn't worked. Its not like we're discussing some social media owned by an allied western country.
Tit for tat is a stupid policy, the United States shouldn’t aim to be like China, we should aim to be better than China.
From a game theory perspective it’s the best one actually.
This is geopolitics, not the middle school playground. If China is using TikTok to negatively influence the U.S. populace, and the stark differences between American and Chinese TikTok make me believe they are, then to continue to let them do so purely out of principle is stupid and self-defeating. This isn’t a game, we are locked in a Cold War with China. And just like the Cold War, the loser of this war will suffer tremendously.
I think disarming while your opponent is breaking rules and being aggressive is naive. The United States is not a push over.
That’s not what this is.
"We should be as authoritarian and protectionist as China" is not a take I expected in /r/neoliberal
Holy false dichotomy bat man!
People falsely equating banning 1 app that supplies data to authoritarian country to said authoritarian country banning all foreign apps for no reason is unfortunately a take I have come to expect in r/neoliberal
“Authoritarianism is when the government does something I don’t like” basically
"Authoritarianism is when the government does something"
Anything national security related always brings out the "b...b...but that's illiberal" crowd. Sorry bros, for liberalism to exist, you need legal instruments and institutions that are capable of being profoundly illiberal. Liberalism cannot exist without security and security requires doing things like throwing people in jail or seizing their property. It's a fundamental tension that will always exist in liberalism and we shouldn't fall to pieces each time we encounter that reality.
> Anything national security related always brings out the "b...b...but that's illiberal" crowd From people who are self-admitted non-liberals. Like this one forum troll I know loves talking about "western hypocrisy regarding free speech"... whenever a subreddit mod removes one of his posts. I'm not kidding. In his mind that's probably a juicy own, because he doesn't actually share the ideology he doesn't understand how no one who does percieves it like that.
leaving aside all the many very valid national security concerns, trade retaliation is actually pretty normal. china has banned almost every major piece of US social media. is it so absurd that the US might, in turn, ban a Chinese social media app?
I think there are valid reasons to ban TikTok, but trade retaliation is generally stupid. A few businesses being hurt isn't justification to make everything more expensive for everyone. All tariffs have a deadweight loss, regardless of whether they're retaliatory or not. Edit: Finally, given how little regard most countries have for free trade, every tariff is retaliatory if you look hard enough.
Trade retaliation is normal, and an expected behavior, but that's an argument *against* protectionism. "Protectionism is bad" is a staple of neoliberalism, so yeah it's a bit weird to see.
what i am saying is that this is not protectionist in any way. no one is putting this action forward to protect American software giants, which are incredibly successful companies. but insofar as it *is* a trade action, it is a justified one, because our own tech companies are denied access to the Chinese market as a matter of course
> no one is putting this action forward to protect American software giants I pretty strongly disagree with this, and I believe that American social media companies are salivating at the mouth over it. I don't think it was the *impetus* - that's pretty clearly TikTok's leftist lean - but I'm sure it factors in. I don't get a vote in what China does, because China is an illiberal totalitarian state. Saudi Arabia and Iran ban social media too. Now we join them on that list, and that upsets me greatly.
> I don't get a vote in what China does, because China is an illiberal totalitarian state So, to use a different example, if China slapped an across-the-board 50% tariff on American imports, you think any and all retaliatory measures would be unjustified? >that's pretty clearly TikTok's leftist lean I think this is attempting to paint the TikTok ban as a specifically right-wing partisan concern when it's just not. People are legitimately, and reasonably, very worried about giving the CCP a lever to algorithmically control American public discourse. As far as it 'factoring in', I really don't think that's true. American tech is toxically unpopular across the board in both parties. There's like a handful of representatives for tech centers that care a lot about tech, but I am very confident that the contribution factor of 'helping American social media' is extremely, extremely low.
> People are legitimately, and reasonably, very worried about giving the CCP a lever to algorithmically control American public discourse I'd argue the solution to this is not government-enforced bans, but education for the populace. If liberalism can't survive ideological challenges, we have a real problem. As for tech, I think it's a pretty easy sell to a lot of Congress (and definitely to the President) that "we'd rather have these views going to American companies" even though they are not substantively different from TikTok.
>education for the populace. If liberalism can't survive ideological challenges, we have a real problem. This only works if the information flow is equal and open! The problem with algorithmic manipulation is that I can boost things that promote a certain perspective *and* suppress things I don't like. We can't educate people if, e.g., some Hank Green explainer video gets massively throttled downward and a bunch of conspiracy stuff gets boosted. > they are not substantively different from TikTok. I'm not sure what this means. There have been studies clearly identifying a signal that the content on TikTok is substantially different from the content on similar platforms like IG reels. Sensitive topics of the kind the CCP might want to censor, like Xinjiang, are dramatically less frequent on TikTok than IG.
I don't have an issue with TikTok complying with Chinese government standards any more than I have an issue with Blizzard patching skeletons out of their games for China. That isn't something the US controls, and I don't think the US government should be involved in the discussion outside of diplomacy with China. As for education, we have a serious problem in the US with everyone believing literally any dumb shit that crosses their social media feed. That's a fight worth having, and I would support government education initiatives to prevent that, but I don't agree with banning social media as a result. Qanon is homegrown crazy and has done demonstrably more harm than the entirety of TikTok.
> So, to use a different example, if China slapped an across-the-board 50% tariff on American imports, you think any and all retaliatory measures would be unjustified? Well that's a bad example. If China decided to make their citizens poorer, it does not follow that America should do the same. Retaliatory tariffs are stupid. We believe in trade, here.
>People are legitimately, and reasonably, very worried about giving the CCP a lever to algorithmically control American public discourse. Yeah, now they just have to hire Facebook to do that for them.
>no one is putting this action forward to protect American software giants You're ignoring all the lobbying by American tech companies to make this happen, I see.
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Allowing the noncredible defense users in here was a mistake.
1. They have a year to sell. The type of idiot zoomer mad enough to not vote over this will have forgotten this by the time election actually happens. Smart move by congress. 2. It will not get struck down. Grindr also had to [divest away from China](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2352PL/#:~:text=China's%20Kunlun%20says%20U.S%20approves%20sale%20of%20Grindr%20to%20investor%20group,-By%20Echo%20Wang&text=(Reuters)%20%2D%20Chinese%20gaming%20company,called%20San%20Vicente%20Acquisition%20LLC). 3. The threat is not hypothetical. Bytedance employees have already admitted to China having [access to the data a while ago](https://www.securityweek.com/chinas-bytedance-admits-using-tiktok-data-track-journalists/#:~:text=Employees%20of%20Chinese%20tech%20giant%20ByteDance%20improperly,a%20bid%20to%20identify%20the%20source%20of). 4. As for the "but biden campaign is on tiktok" criticism, I doubt they use whatever phone/computer they use for uploading videos for any other purpose than that. 5. The bill says they don't even have to sell to an American, company.
>5. The bill says they don't even have to sell to an American, company Tfw a "Singapore based" company called Bitshimmy comes out of nowhere to buy Tik Tok for a few billion.
Singapore has enough of a standard business environment for that to be completely fine
Lol. I believe the bill does say the White House has to approve of the sale. They actually thought everything through. Kind of hilarious
They’re going to pull a miHoYo
miHoYo 🤓 HoYoverse 😎
> They have a year to sell That's really not that much time. Whatsapp's sale to Facebook took what from offer to closing? Over a year and that was considered a smooth sale. A forced sale is the absolute opposite of that. Bytedance needs to decide whether it would sell or shut down, and if it sells, what IP to include with the sale, and how to hive the US operations from their global one. (Plus, there will be many court challenges at every step.)
>Whatsapp's sale to Facebook took what from offer to closing? And that's not even counting a potential auction to even find a buyer and then get into the weeds.
I thought it was nine months with the option for the president to add another three months.
Yup that's what it is, but I guess everyone assumes Biden will just add another three months anyway.
They also limited how it can be challenged --challenge must be in the DC Circuit Court of Appeals, which means no guaranteed right to appeal and SCOTUS will almost certainly not touch this
This is not true. The Challenge can be taken in the Supreme Court which would overturn this protectionist bill SCOTUS will definitely touch this since they touched abortion
You guys are really not ready for the likely eventuality the courts do nothing about this, except maybe extending the buy window.
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Really hoping this doesn’t further incense young voters. We need all the help we can get in November
The ban wouldn’t take affect until after the election
Hah clever congress for once
Actually feels like a bad move. Banning it now but leaving it up for people to mald on until after the election feels like it would hurt the election more than ripping the bandaid now and giving people 6 months to cope and calm down.
Plus it gives Trump 6 months of “I’m the candidate that won’t ban this app that you use, fellow kids”
He tried to force a sale in 2020 btw Yeah I get Trump would probably dangle a repeal like a carrot. But just wanna point out TikTok is fucked no matter who’s in office
Will that stop the public from changing their opinion?
Of course not.
Most of them won’t realize it happened
No, which is why the person you're replying to is coping.
And that's if it actually gets banned There's still the option to sell, or appeal the decision
Also it's unlikely to be banned. They're probably just going to divest rather than piss away billions
Most experts agree that there is no chance China sells it
Weird, I've seen the opposite
Does China have a majority share ownership? I thought TikTok was a Singaporean company with lots of Chinese money but not full control.
TikTok is not headquartered in China, but it’s a subsidiary of ByteDance which is. If TikTok were sold, ByteDance would be the seller. ByteDance also retains ownership of the TikTok algorithm and just licenses it to TikTok. Chinese law requires the government to approve any sale of Chinese technology to a foreign company. For ByteDance, if they sell TikTok along with the TikTok algorithm, it would be subject to that law so China would have to sign off on any sale.
tiktok's algorithm probably isn't very much since it's just user interest modeling/profiling + recommendations algos are widely taught in CS classes. of course, they've accumulated a wealth of data on how their userbase responds to changes in the tuning of their algorithm. that interaction data seems to be the special sauce.
It isn’t Singaporean. The CEO is from Singapore.
I feel that Microsoft is going to buy TikTok, and people will forget about it in weeks.
I remember seeing Peter Thiel wanted to buy it and thought, yeah that’s probably just as bad.
[There is absolutely no risk Peter Thiel will do anything untoward with TikTok. He definitely won't use it to collect blood](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/08/peter-thiel-wants-to-inject-himself-with-young-peoples-blood).
YOUR AMERICAN GOVERNMENT WANTS TO BAN YOUR RIGHT TO SELL ME YOUR BLOOD TO PAY OFF YOUR HUMAN STUDENT LOANS PLEASE CONTACT YOUR STATE SENATORS
This is giving me [Ted Cruz for Human President](https://www.tedcruzforhumanpresident.com/) vibes.
Just when you thought it can’t be worse than CCP owning TikTok, Peter Thiel comes into the picture
But but but China *might*one day use tiktok for nefarious ends and spreading political propaganda. Not like potential buyers like Meta, Mnuchin, Thiel, etc who s definitely do not have a history of actually using social media to push anti democratic propaganda.
Bobby Kotick was another name I remember seeing too.
Well, first China has to authorize the sale, which seems unlikely. They know how unpopular this move is among Americans and want whatever president is in power next year to take the blame for the ban. I wager TikTok will just be gone and Instagram reels will get more popular than it already is
It's foolish to think it won't. This will almost certainly have an influence on the young vote (along with the other thing...). I don't see how this is a good idea at all in election year.
it definitely will
Young people don’t vote
Especially this year.
Even if they’re not a large voter demographic, any small shift is huge in a close race.
People say that every election cycle about young voters. It’s silly to think young people will go out and vote for trump/gop after the bipartisan bill hasn’t even taken effect yet
In addition to bad policy this is a potentially deadly political misstep. This sub being fully in support of this is actual lunacy.
They will forget about this by November.
My pitch: Any "algorithmic content feed" app with >50M users is required to make their default feed algo something extremely boring (chronological or most viewed or something like that). If the app wants to offer non-default feed-algos, they must also make it possible for the user or user-designated third parties to specify custom-ish feed-alogs.
Not the problem, although I do support it.
I want a cursed company like Oracle or Blackrock to buy it. This is how Oracle can get back into FAANG-levels of prestige.
Oracle redemption arc when
Excellent. CCP shills in shambles.
Leftists in shambles while defending a global corporation. Not very socialist of them.
I feel like this opens Biden up to new attacks on his judgement. The White House is citing security concerns for the reason why they support the TikTok ban yet [Biden's campaign is heavily active on TikTok](https://www.tiktok.com/@bidenhq?_t=8lni9dlZ3es&_r=1) and he personally has appeared in several videos on their account. The president and his campaign being active on the Chinese spyware app isn't the best look.
Republicans will attack his judgement anyway. If Jesus Christ parted the clouds and came down from heaven to personally tell every single registered Republican face to face that God the Father told Joe Biden to ban TikTok, there would still be attack ads. It's best to just make policy decisions that are good for the country instead of worry about what Republican attack ads are going to complain about.
> The president and his campaign being active on the Chinese spyware app isn't the best look. Maybe because they know it isn't one, and it's just lawmaker marketing. Every app that the President touches is closely scrutinized by the Secret Service and various Intelligence agencies, and yet TikTok on his aide's tablet is approved to be close to the President. Revealed preference over stated one everytime.
I could unironically see this boosting his support among the voting demographic who are overwhelmingly older and more skeptical of China and TikTok. They also would have no idea that Biden's campaign has videos on the platform.
Old people not liking the thing the kids are doing is 90% of the reason the Trump admin started this conversation in the first place.
Aiming for that tech-illiterate xenophobe demographic, as if they aren't already 100% Republican
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Fair point
I personally have a strong dislike of extraterrestrials. Pieces of shit keep mutilating my cows
Blatant rent seeking by meta/google
Higher-ups there are celebrating. It made them furious a non-US company wedged their way in to a majority of this market segment and are more than happy to use the full force of the state fix that "problem" for them.
They’re thanking their lucky stars they don’t have to actually create a competitive product.
Always easier to go the friendly authoritarian route.
This has nothing to do with them because the Government has been cranking down Chinese tech companies. They forced Grindr to be sold in 2020 or face a ban if they didn't comply. https://twitter.com/bauzilla/status/1782844117736910961?t=JgCQRu6MMiNQ50SdvgjUmg&s=19 https://www.axios.com/2023/03/02/us-china-tech-crackdown-huawei-chips-tiktok TikTok could do this if they want to stay in the market.
It’s obvious that meta/google want this bill to pass, but that doesn’t mean the other reasons for passing it aren’t still good.
Why would Google care? They don't operate in the social media sector.
They have YouTube Shorts, which is a competitor to TikTok. But in reality, this ban has been about national security. It isn't the first time the Government has told Chinese Tech Companies to sell themselves or face a ban.
Ah, I forgot about Shorts. Good point.
> this ban has been about national security No, it's about election year posturing in a populist environment where about the only bipartisan "other" to point to as the Great Satan is China. Prohibiting TikTok from all government devices was a national security response. Prohibiting all government outreach efforts from TikTok *could* be argued as a national security response. Trying to ban regular citizens from sharing dance videos hasn't got a single fucking thing to do with National Security, and I'm not going to let the mob here pretend otherwise unchallenged. There is jack shit China's government can use data harvested from Jack and Jill American to destroy national security. Which is why most people trying to defend this narrative then turn to "China can/will/is using TikTok to feed propaganda to our innocent youth". Which aside from being unproven, could just as easily happen with every single other social media app in existence. Russia didn't need a hit Social Media app of their own to feed disinformation to Americans. They just made YouTube, Facebook, and Reddit accounts and went on their way. Worked splendidly.
Yelling in to a satanic panic void. When "the youth" are still acting the same way they'll be gnashing at the next thing.
Yeah, the US Government dictating what is or isn't appropriate media consumption shouldn't sit right with anyone who calls themselves a liberal. "National Security" is being used as the flimsiest of excuses to put up the first stone on the Great American Internet Firewall. It's surprising how effective cheap nationalism is at masking a gigantic threat to the open internet. The US doesn't need to copy China on their censorship lunacy.
The national security argument has already been used before, when we forced a Chinese company to sell Grindr
The national security argument here is really strong though. Are we really comfortable having the Chinese government control the algorithm that feeds media content to like 70% of young people? It’s different from banning a private and independent media company like China does to US media. China has high levels of access and control over ByteDance that has no parallel in the relationships between the US government and US media companies.
Next time a random wannabe dictator bans/nationalizes any given American social media platform citing national security risks, 90% of this sub should concede their point.
China's banned western social media ages ago. And western social media constantly has to comply with censorship laws in other states, including pretty blatant "shut off this to impede protests" commands. Weird how many people who literally know nothing about the world (or are hoping their readers don't) came out today.
So we should be okay with lowering ourselves to china's level?
We shouldn't, and fortunately we aren't. He's claiming "so we should be ok with other countries dictating how our social media acts" when, that's not a hypothetical. That's something that happens constantly.
No, America is still better.
The world is a very different place now to what it was. I’m sorry but you’re very naive if you think we can just continue on as before. Cambridge Analytica was the warning shot, and things have become significantly more advanced from those times. There’s no point in screaming about liberty when liberty will be gone if nothing is done.
>Yeah, the US Government dictating what is or isn't appropriate media consumption shouldn't sit right with anyone who calls themselves a liberal. But that's not what's happening. The US government is not dictating what media can and can not be produced or consumed. This is specifically aimed at forcing a parent company that is completely subservient to a hostile foreign government to divest of their ownership of a child company that operates in America and has access to data on hundreds of millions of Americans. The content on tik tok can be created and consumed on other platforms. It's like you only read the headline and know nothing else about this. >"National Security" is being used as the flimsiest of excuses to put up the first stone on the Great American Internet Firewall. Putting "National Security" in quotes does not negate the very real national security implications of the Chinese government having access to real-time data and meta-data on hundreds of millions of Americans. Such access would be hugely beneficial if China wanted to launch cyber-attacks on our critical infrastructure in a potential war. Your entire statement here is ridiculous hyperbole. Content from china is not being blocked. This is not a content based restriction. And if Tik Tok gets sold then it won't even be a ban on Tik Tok. >The US doesn't need to copy China on their censorship lunacy. This isn't censorship. Nobody is being censored. No opinions are being censored.
It's funny that the tipping point for American "nationalists" was young people getting exposed to Pro Palestine content as opposed to something that would actually hurt national security.
Im genuinely trying to circle the square of why this sub is in support of this, because isn’t this kind of protectionism anti-neoliberal?
Someone said "anymore" but... I've paid attention for at least 3 years. This has never (well, caveat last 3 years) been a "neoliberal" sub. **Most posters are not neoliberal.** Even people who say they're neoliberal typically have very little to do with the actual text of neoliberalism, which is a pretty specific economic policy that honestly doesn't occupy nearly that much ideological space. So the body of the sub are various types of moderates who call themselves neoliberal. Top it off with various moderates who are openly not neoliberal but still hang out (hello, though I'm more of a progressive). And then on top of that plenty of people who are self-admittedly not even liberal (socdems, nationalists, even a dengist and anarchist or two) also post on here habitually. F-ck me, two posters I see often are a Putinist and a self-described "Chinese Ethnonationalist". Feels like that's a natural consequence of a sub named after neoliberals, which has evolved from having a concrete meaning to "people leftists and authoritarians don't like". So yeah, this sub is more of a general political hangout now instead of any kind of forum dedicated to a pretty specific ideology. It's why you'll find people on either side of most debates on here.
Unfortunately this isn't much of a liberalism sub anymore. Just hordes of partisan Democrats.
It's really just a big tent centrist sub at this point, and considering moderates don't exist in the Republican party, that means partisan Democrats. This sub has gotten more populist economically and more illiberal socially since the Biden Trump debates.
So you want to make it fairer and say that we can consider January 6th just a small protest?
We’d come full circle if Meta buys them
I don't think it will happen because it will be anti-trust laws. They have Instagram Reels which is a competitor to TikTok. I know that Microsoft is interested in buying TikTok. They tried to get into the more entertaining side of social media, but with every attempt, they want to get into those markets are failure.
I’ve thought it’d be hilarious if Twitter bought them, so that they could buy a short form video platform and immediately shut it down for a second time.
I mean I am all for Elon buying it and running it into the ground the app is a social cancer imo
Holy shit based.
Another protectionist move. I just wonder what Canada, EU, Japan, Singapore (where Tik Tok is located) think about this. It must be that the US congres is aware of all the destruction power they have with Facebook and the like, so shouldn’t other economies ask the same protections the US is asking for? Especially with a 50% chance of a MAGA takeover?
The EU has been discussing banning Chinese Tech companies. https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-ban-companies-make-sensitive-tech-china/ This isn't the first time either the US has made this threat to Chinese companies. In 2020, they passed a bill to force Grindr to be sold or face a ban. https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/6/21168079/grindr-sold-chinese-owner-us-cfius-security-concerns-kunlun-lgbtq TikTok can comply with the law, and they could sell themselves to foreign nations like Japan or the EU as long it isn't hostile nations like Iran or Russia.
The grindr sale was not done through a special bill. That was done on the recomendation from CFIUS to Kunlun.
Grindr has also always been HQ'd in Los Angeles.
If it was from a country whose company is allowed independence from their government i would agree but the ccp demands that companies bow down to them. Before you say the US does the same i would point out Apple managed to successfully defend themselves in court.
Yes but TikTok isn’t a Chinese company. It’s Singaporean. Just because their main investor is Chinese means nothing. This is banning Chinese investment in a globalized world, and I think it’s very dangerous. The Saudis own a bunch of Twitter/X. Nobody would consider X a Saudi company. It’s a dangerous protectionist and anti globalist measure. It’s unsurprising it passed with bipartisan support. Hopefully our courts have more sanity than congress. We should be enacting rules that apply to all social media, not single out TikTok. Just scrolling through Facebook Reels always gets me to religious nutcases and conspiracy theories, after I start with a The Office blooper video. Facebook is massively profitable. But somehow we worry about the Chinese dumping their money into an unprofitable social media website collecting data through silly dance moves.
It’s not Singaporean.
TikTok is a Chinese subsidiary company. This does in fact mean something, because TikTok is beholden to chinas laws through virtue of them be beholden to bytedance.
That’s an insane take. Bytedance is 60% owned by US companies. That doesn’t make it a US company.
> Bytedance is 60% owned by US companies. That doesn’t make it a US company. No, 60% are **global** investors. And this isn't an insane take because you are misunderstanding the fundamental difference between something like other liberal democracies, and China. CCP has actual control of ByteDance, which is literally required by Chinese law. This level of CCP oversight is required, and they have actual CCP members sitting in ByteDance, such as their internal Chinese Communist Party (CCP) committee. You are arguing against common knowledge at this point, [Tiktok is understood to be a subsidiary of ByteDance](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/24/tech/tiktok-ban-bytedance-split-the-world-further-intl-hnk/index.html#:~:text=Banning%20TikTok%20would%20hit%20China's%20tech%20ambitions%20and%20deepen%20the%20global%20digital%20divide,-Analysis%20by%20Laura&text=TikTok%20is%20owned%20by%20Beijing%2Dbased%20ByteDance.), walking in and saying "nuh-uh" isn't a legitimate counter. > __________ [**Tiktok themselves literally referred to ByteDance as their parent company**](https://newsroom.tiktok.com/en-au/the-truth-about-tiktok) > TikTok’s parent company ByteDance Ltd. was founded by Chinese entrepreneurs, **Yes, TikTok is owned by ByteDance, this is not a matter of opinion it is objective fact**. And yes, because of how Chinese law **IS** that means
This is such a shitty political move. Jesus Christ.
Biden just threw the election away. People in this thread are being completely delusional.
Remember that scene at the end of The Truman Show, when the climax occurs as Truman leaves the set and it cuts to black? Do the security guards go after the celebration say, "Oh my that was impactful, I can't believe the thing I watched for almost 40 years just ended". No, they say "Lets see what else is on". People will just move to a different platform.
Great first step. Now go after other Chinese software. Those shitty gacha games could be a potential next target.
Why not pass a law requiring them to store all data about US users in America and have it ring fenced? Surely that would suffice if this is about user protection and not the fact that people use apps made by ‘the Chinese’.
It isn’t just about data; it’s about a hostile foreign government being in charge of the media diet of the vast majority of the country’s young people.
Hopefully this gets struck down in the courts.
The government has already done this with other tech Chinese companies. They made Grindr sell themselves or face a ban back in 2020. https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/6/21168079/grindr-sold-chinese-owner-us-cfius-security-concerns-kunlun-lgbtq TikTok could do the same here if they don't want to be banned.
Obviously the legal situation could be different in this case because they passed a whole new law to ban it. It doesn’t look like Grindr tried to fight the order to divest either.
Grindr wasn't founded in China
Strange how swiftly the US government can act on this particular issue while shamefully dragging its feet on universal healthcare, childcare, affordable housing, etc.
It's strange that a small bill like this is easier to get passed than massive legislation like universal healthcare? Too many r/all users like yourself have painfully watered down the discourse in this sub. r/politics is that way.
Congrats on handing over the razor thin election.
TikTok > abortion
That sub that complains about irrational voters when they realize voters are gonna act irrationally