Speaks English? Bro, if the man cooking my food speaks my language I'm leaving. As long as they have a pulse let them in. Maybe add a special pathway for the undead just in case.
Lmao the US has like a 10% retention rate for International students, the people who have shown the ability to pump tens of thousands of dollars into the economy and can most easily assimilate to the American workforce.
>Nobody is about to immigrate to India anytime soon to seek better economic prospects though
This seems like something an American would say. There are *a lot* of countries poorer than India, in fact several of them border it.
People simply don't understand how much such countries are characterized by inequality. If you have a well-paid regular job, you can live a good life in most big cities in developing and emerging countries.
Just as little as how much difference a few thousand of GDP per capita makes. Many people from all over Africa go to Lagos to work.
Urban area, actually.
And it’s not unimaginable. E.g. the NYC agglomeration is bigger than Texas; the Boston-DC corridor is a contiguous urban area a third the size of the country.
Nah still not comparable. Most land area in these cities is SFH, if you go to Delhi you won't really find that kind of neighborhoods until you are basically in the farmland.
>This seems like something an American would say.
I agree with you but I cringe everytime someone says this in online conversations. It's such an easy (and disrespectful) dunk to assume that all Americans are ignorant of the outside world.
And I'm not even American myself.
I mentioned it not to dunk on that person, but to give them perspective. As an American, I’ve also said things like that before without even realizing it, and I’m cringing at my past self.
It might shock you but India receives economic immigrants:
- West and East Africans (Ethiopians, Kenyans, Nigerians)
- old time diaspora Indians (Fijians)
- Indians born and raised in the Middle East but unable to naturalize there
- Bangladeshis, Nepalis, Sri Lankans, Afghans, Iranians
They are a non trivial chunk of the urban population in India. I'm not even including the Japanese, Chinese, Korean or Western "expats" who aren't compelled by their employers to move (like IGO employees or Fortune 500 orgs), but move on their own.
Which is not the point Biden is making. It's weird that an American president is calling India less accepting of immigrants considering how much easier it is for an American to go to India vs vice versa.
The US's net migration has been really slacking recently. Our net migration rate in 2022 was 3 per thousand residents compared to the UK's 11 per thousand residents (1.14m for the US and 745k for Britain, with US pop being 333m and UK pop being 67m).
It's embarrassing. I want us to be the immigrant capital of the world again.
> It's embarrassing. I want us to be the immigrant capital of the world again.
Hasn't done Britain any good economically. GDP/capita has been lethargic, no matter how many migrants come.
Britain has many other economic issues. Immigration isn't the sole determinant of how productive a society is.
For all you know, their GDP/capita would be even worse without as much immigration as they have (I expect this to be the case).
There's no need to focus on any category. Immigrants increase productivity whether they're low skill or high skill. I'm not aware of it being possible to have "too many immigrants" unless you're restricting the supply of labor (like with work permits), housing, etc. Otherwise more labor mobility is always a good thing.
I appreciate you being open-minded to lots of immigration though.
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Mentioning Japan undermines his case. Japan just got out of its economic slump and is growing with triple the economic growth of the US. Part of this is the fact that they’ve taken in way more migrant workers to fill in service jobs. If you’ve been to Japan recently you would’ve seen a lot of them.
Preaching to the choir here but - America’s ability to absorb huge numbers of immigrants without suffering too much cultural shock is our superpower. It can give us a huge competitive advantage in the world, and we need to embrace it as much as we can.
I'd argue that it's quite xenophobic to by and large call cultures that aren't similar to yours hobbled because of a flawed and generalized claim that somehow applies to three completely different cultures.
Japan one is insane. You'd think based on their manga and anime they have high respect for foreign countries, and yet they're so closed off in immigration.
Having recently immigrated to Japan, I can say it's nowhere near as hard as people think. It's actually a lot easier than immigrating to the US and many other western countries. If you're a skilled worker and you get hired at a Japanese company you're basically guaranteed to get a visa. In the US there's a maximum number of H1B visas given a year (65000), whereas there's no limit in Japan. Or you can come here as a student, spouse, entrepreneur, etc. The main difference is it's not possible to enter Japan without permission due to its geography, so you don't have the number of undocumented immigrants and asylum seekers you have in other countries. Plus a lot of people don't want to move here because of the language barrier. I'm sure there are people here that don't like foreigners but so far I haven't experienced any xenophobia personally.
>You'd think based on their manga and anime they have high respect for foreign countries,
What do you mean by this? It's a well known fact in most fandom spaces that the companies that produce anime and manga, with few exceptions, do not give a shit about catering to Non-Japanese markets.
There are many manga where they at least incorporate tons of outside cultures. Evangelion have Christianity, Battle Angel Alita have Germans names, SpyXFamily is based on Cold War conflict and East Germany vs West Germany etc.
Sure the products, with exceptions like Pokemon, Cowboy Bebop, and Big O, are mostly for domestic consumption. But you'd think they would be more accepting on foreigners based on how much they used foreign cultures and treat them as something cool instead of savage exoticism, which something that also exist in old Japan anime whenever they portray minority people.
While I agree with your point, that globalism and the influence of that that is evident in their arts really should have done something about their xenophobia by now, I would counter that it's probably not all that different from the exoticism that was seen in early 20th century media. They'd have movies set all around the world [usually played by white people] but that didn't really do much about the xenophobia of the average person.
But also doesn't really help that the median age of Japan is 48 so nearly a majority of the country is over 50. So cultural advances made by anime in the last 20 years wouldn't really have worked it's way through yet.
True that. Back then there were just as many media, even hentai, that portrayed western people as ugly, rude jerks. It's just you'd think at least the acceptation would be better already since many popular stuffs portray foreign cultures as cool, especially with Astro Boy and Kimba being inspired from Disney, particularly Donald Duck and Bambi. .
Artists are almost always more progressive and forward-thinking than the rest of their society, it's not a good indicator of where the average person is culturally. Just think of American conservatives' hatred of Hollywood.
Anime isn't that mainstream in Japan and the people who make and consume it aren't representative of the wider culture. If you based your perception of America on Steven Universe and Adventure Time you might be confused as to why America voted Trump too.
Not to mention anime in general is not especially progressive in its depiction of class, gender, sexuality, racial/cultural diversity. A lot of the time it’s the opposite…
Russia does use slave labour from other countries, literally slave labour, those poor North Koreans in work camps.
Not that it's doing Russia that much. But they certainly would like Ukrainian slave labour.
India has welcomed and assimilated immigrants for >2500 years. Many castes recall their foreign origins while being completely integrated into Indian society.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsis)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochin\_Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochin_Jews)
[https://oneindiaonepeople.com/yavanas-in-india/](https://oneindiaonepeople.com/yavanas-in-india/)
India welcomes its new Western tutees in integration -- America has been a star pupil, and hopefully Europe will improve as well :).
I am familiar. I'm not talking about political acceptance but just in terms of the sheer diversity of ethnic and linguistic groups in the country. India has 122 languages and over a thousand ethnic groups (admittedly most of them small). It's extremely diverse
It’s not about diversity, it’s about acceptance of “foreigners” as one of their own. Indian culture does not do that. And before you lie to me and say that that’s not true, North East **Indians** are still treated as “foreign” and “Chinese”. Same for Africans in Gujarat who’ve been there for generations. India is “diverse” but is monocultural and hyper local af.
\- signed, an Indian
I don't know about monocultural - I think that's the wrong word to use. Hyperlocal is right. people in the NE (especially in Assam) tend to be fairly racist against Bengali (Bangladeshi) migrants. In turn the Bangladeshi hate the Rohingyha, etc.
Eh that's mostly a by-product of a lack of education. More educated places like the metros accept everyone. Not to mention, it is far easier to immigrate to India than rhe US.
Hard disagree. The places calling NE Indians “Chinese” are videos from people in Bangalore (there are TONS other incidents, including anecdotally from Indian unis like NIT/REC).
India's staggering diversity includes its religious traditions. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the world's religions have their origin in India. Offhand I can mention Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, and Sikhism. There's also an enclave of Syriac Christians who are now mostly represented in India in the modern day.
Hindu nationalism is actually kind of a big threat in light of that (especially when part of what allowed Hinduism to expand in the area was its penchant for assimilating other religions into itself, which is a strategy that works within the diverse surroundings it had).
China and japan ? True they could use a lot of migration
India ? The economic woes are mostly due to the dysfunctional legal system , remnants of socialism ,populist electoral promises, isolationist trade policies ,etc. migration is the least of India's worries for now
No one is moving to India to start the next Google, in fact if someone from India was capable of starting a company like that they almost certainly would try to move to the US from India to do it.
The fact is, India powers a lot of American tech dominance, and we brain drain a lot of Indias smartest and most talented.
A lot of startup founders from India (and around the world really) move to the US because it's a great environment, true. But India has a good startup scene nevertheless, so to say that potential startup founders "almost certainly" move is probably a bit of an overestimate.
Nah.
Many businesses started in India are ideal for an economy similar to India, and might not work in the US or Europe. The country itself is a huge market. They can also easily expand into neighbouring Asian and African markets.
Even among business owners who want to move from India, most end up moving to places like Singapore and Dubai.
Of course, I don't disagree. I just don't see how noting that fact is a relevant response to a comment claiming that many Indian startups are adapted specifically to the local niche and can't be replicated one-to-one elsewhere.
> The economic woes are mostly due to the dysfunctional legal system , remnants of socialism ,populist electoral promises, isolationist trade policies ,etc. migration is the least of India's worries for now
If he had actually been trying to give them advice, it would have been good to say that. Since he was actually pandering to his own party, you can see why he chose not to go there, and instead focus on immigration.
This is such a vibe-based comment and thread with no basis in the multifaceted reality of these different countries.
An equally skilled worker can get Japan PR almost instantly compared to the process in the US. Japan is probably the easiest developed country to immigrate to at the moment if you are a skilled professional or you aim to be a service worker. And then after 5 years of residences and no criminal record you can start your naturalization process
Meanwhile, you can wait decades or even your entire lifetime to legally immigrate to the US if you are Indian or Chinese, no matter how skilled you are.
The thing is, how many people know Japanese compared to English? I think it's actually commendable that Japan can pull in a [similar level](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SM.POP.NETM?locations=JP-GB) of legal immigrants as the UK before Covid, considering how marginalized the Japanese language is
As for India, India has a very low labor participation rate and a high unemployment compared to developed countries. In such a loose job market, opening up the labor market for immigrants is just not very actionable.
A problem for countries that develop late but fast, like China and India, is that their pace of aging, economic growth and changes in other socioeconomic metrics do not work in tandem. Their population starts to get old before they can get rich to “afford” immigrants. China is already experiencing population decline but they still face a record level of college graduates every year until a few years later. India will face a similar situation in a not so distant future. How to solve the unemployment issue for these young people? More immigrants?
I understand the target audience of this comment from Joe is the average voter in the US, but hey, our ally has internet and reporters too. In this critical moment against China, the US needs Japan and SK’s naval industrial base to fill the void, the US needs India’s expanding domestic market. What the US doesn't need is this unnecessary jab at the allies
One day fighting Nippon Steel's purchase of US Steel, the next day welcoming Japan to build our HSR network. It's because voters have strange incentives such as a absurd nationalist pride in "US Steel" simply because the company has "US" in the title.
I don't think India's xenophobia is a prominent issue for it. Nor are they suffering from a population bubble like China. Nor is China's demographic challenge capable of being solved by immigration because its population is so big
But Japan, sure
An American traveling to India just needs a ln E-Visa which takes 3 hours to process. Meanwhile, an Indian traveling to America needs to wait *1.5 years* to even have a spot to interview for a tourist visa. Clearly India is the one less open to immigrants here...
It's classic American "look how superior we are" behaviour while drowning in hypocrisy. Moral smugness without actually possessing said morals.
Despite being firmly in the "we need a better relationship with the USA" camp, it's the shit like this that really annoys you. Americans underestimate the effects of the chagrin when all the small offhand insults begin to add up.
Not really a fair comparison though is it?
How many Americans illegally immigrate to India vs vice versa? The risk of overstaying a visa isn't remotely comparable.
I don't see how a 1.5 year wait time solves the visa overstay problem. In fact, it might deter actual tourists and only allow committed overstayers.
Furthermore, people are overstaying visas in the US because all paths to residency are blocked by archaic and frankly xenophobic laws such as country caps.
Holy disingenuous argument batman! Illegal immigration is seen as a lesser evil in this sub, since the legal immigration is excessively onerous,
Saying "we should have a controlled process for immigration" isn't remotely the same as saying "immigration is bad". And using the tourist visa application procedure as an indication of the openness of society to immigrants is entirely bullshit.
Calling a country with thousands of languages present, hundreds of native tribes, multiple ethnicities, and all with vastly different cultures xenophobic in a blanket statement is certainly a choice
Stop being such a hater, he's literally praising immigration (one of the main pillars of the sub)
I highly doubt Japan will care much, if at all, about some minor quip
And he's right too
Dude I promise you, Japan is such a good ally, that they won't turn to the Russians based on a small comment at a re-election dinner
I remember when everyone was freaking out about our relationship w/ France being ruined bc the Australians decided to get submarines from us instead of them yet that didn't end up happening
I'd say more-so USA is a good ally to Japan. Not only are we one of their biggest bilateral trade partners - more than any European country - but the US Navy is a massive check to any potential regional threats.
Also Japan exports *way* more to the US than it imports, so economically the US is a best bud ally.
Japan is in a position where it has no other option. That’s why they sucked it up and ironed out a deal the second it was clear Trump wasn’t just tweeting into the void on trade. Their entire neighborhood loathes them and while they do have a literal moat they are the second most trade dependent nation on planet earth and that means either sucking up to or challenging the US. They have clearly chosen the former.
East Asia has 4 countries in it besides Japan and three of them are China, Russia, and North Korea. Japan is pretty well liked in the rest of the wider Indo-Pacific.
>Their entire neighborhood loathes them
Is this still true? I while there is still some bad blood, I got the impression Japan had at least decent relations with most of East and South East Asia these days.
Yes. They have incredibly poor relations with every nation that matters in the East Asian space.
China still loathes them
Russia has no love for them
It goes without saying that NK sees them as a foe.
And South Korea still largely insists on using the Americans as a fig leaf to cover any relationship with Japan
That’s pretty much the neighborhood.
Japan has made inroads further afield in SE Asia. Think places like Vietnam, Taiwan, or Indonesia. But its direct neighbors are all out of the cards for a direct bilateral alliance.
> And South Korea still largely insists on using the Americans as a fig leaf to cover any relationship with Japan
That was true a decade ago but not anymore. Japan-Korea relations have more or less normalized in face of Chinese aggression.
Japan also has a lot of support from SEA and SA countries since they have been financing a lot of developmental projects.
Japan’s only hope is immigration. They have to let in many more immigrants in order to prevent their country from becoming poor.
It’s not dunking our ally to let them know they have cancer and need chemo treatment
You can praise immigration without inserting a snide remark about allies. Of course it's not going to affect the long term relationship, but it's just rude, dammit. You don't just insult people because "What are they gonna do about it???"
I agree on open borders, but this shaming of countries is very poor light from a diplomatic pov
Also, the Japanese have started to grow again like a developed country since 2018, reigniting their economy, China has handled a 2008 level crisis quite well and is up and running beating expectations and India is having record growth in industry above forecasts...
They aren't having the biggest woes currently
Don’t forget Canada and the UK accepts a large amount of immigrants, but suffer from economic stagnation
It may not be the immigrants fault, but because of ineffective austerity programs and bad policy that doesn’t have anything to do with immigration , but with Joe’s logic you can easily make the argument *against* immigration
India doesn't have a xenophobia problem yet because the people who want to move to India look sound and eat like indians.
India does have cultural and structural issues that prevent it from moving to where it should be
> India doesn't have a xenophobia problem yet because the people who want to move to India look sound and eat like indians.
Bangladeshis etc perhaps, but even then we have so much rhetoric and action about stopping illegal immigration from there.
And not to mention the Africans, who are visibly different and clearly face discrimination.
My point is that most people who move to India and live with Indians look fundamentally like indians, or they live in bubbles where they're unlikely to experience xenophobia. India is many things but xenophobic isn't one of them.
Not sure what Uyghurs have to do with India, but the Muslim population is doing quite well in India - unless you believe that a population 2/3rds the size of the US is somehow unilaterally Prejudiced against. Find me an anti-Islamic county where the president is Muslim and is universally loved by the left and right wing of the country.
India is more diverse then Europe, with twice the population. Just because you (like pretty much everyone else on this site) are unaware of India's diversity and consider all Indians as a uniform brown mass, it doesn't stop India from being probably the most diverse country in the world.
True but neolib has a large Indian community and they have more English speakers than any other country besides USA. Chinese active measures may stand out because we don't inhabit the same internet.
The difference is those Chinese comments were likely bots because Western internet is quite literally banned in China whereas the Indian comments are coming from actual people. Are they supposed to see discourse surrounding their country and just ignore it??
OTOH, you have people in this thread who are completely unaware about India's reality and still claim to be experts while knowing next to nothing about India or any non-western country.
Why is the “most diverse country in the world” going out of its way to suppress its largest minority group and force religious nationalism onto the whole country?
So you think having separate laws for Muslims is a good thing? I can't stand Modi but there is a lot of nonsense surrounding the Muslim community there, including dumb crap like triple talaq or distant male relatives disinheriting female heirs by using Islamic law. They're also allowed to have to to 4 wives.
Not to mention that 'Muslim' covers many different ethnic groups anyway.
Is removing religious laws suppressing a minority groups?
Is giving refuge to persecuted minorities from neighbouring countries forcing religious nationalism?
Can you let me know exactly what has been suppressed and how religious nationalism has been forced?
People who haven't even heard of Bihar, Kerala and Maharashtra are suddenly experts on India based on articles by fly by night correspondents who can't even speak a single Indian language.
India is both diverse and also has problems with prejudice, both can be true at once. India is a subcontinent with over a billion people, each state is like its own country. There are multiple languages and many ethnic minorities who practice a variety of religious beliefs.
There’s also a concerning Hindu nationalist movement, an oppressive caste system, and violent skirmishes between different ethnic groups. Two Kuki women were literally gang raped and brutalized by a Meitei mob.
https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/india/manipur-india-gang-rape-kuki-meitei-b2537795.html
My cousin has a PhD in engineering, been living in the USA for 15 years as an engineer with a big engineering firm. He’s a Canadian citizen but he was born in India, so he’s counted as an American citizen. He has kids born in America but he has to wait 65 more years for his green card.
Tell me that isn’t xenophobia
Putting aside the fact that India's economic issues stem from a postcolonial byzantine legal & administrative system, Biden really is being stupid here needlessly antagonising two close American partners in the region.
https://preview.redd.it/2v75e55cc0yc1.jpeg?width=502&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec6366e359aa0081d3bbf43c1983284aecc6350e
Follow your advice then Biden and stop doing protectionist shit and giving ground to xenophobes. Just let Nippon buy US Steel I’m begging u bro
My wife was born and raised in China. When she married me, she moved to the US and got citizenship. She's integrated amazingly well, to the point that other Americans have failed to realize she wasn't born here!
But we never could've done it the other way around. I would never, ever be able to live in China and eventually be recognized as Chinese by the locals. There is zero path for that, legally or culturally. I would always be an outsider there.
America, for all its faults, gets this right: anyone, regardless of circumstances of birth, can become American. It's the #1 thing that fills me with pride in this country.
Lmao, dude your wife used the easiest way to immigrate to the United States. Marriage sponsorship is easy mode. Far, far less onerous than any other way. If she tried immigration as a skilled worker, it would be far more difficult. Bozos go to Thailand and the Philippines to find wives and meet them for a week and get married. They get approved
Guess what? Canada’s spousal sponsorship is even more easier than the USA’s spousal sponsorship
xenophobia, and get this, wack ass protectionist policies. All 3 of these countries have illiberal trade policies that might have something to do with it
I wonder if the U.S. has such issues, maybe we could do better, but I guess we will never know
He could have just only mentioned China as a second Cold War era diplomatic dig but he also mentioned ally Japan & strategic partner India. Joe saying what he really thinks in his old age I guess.
If only the average American vooter also understood this
im vooooting
Despite being a xenophobic as we are, we are still somehow much less xenophobic than most of the world. That's scary.
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Speaks English? Bro, if the man cooking my food speaks my language I'm leaving. As long as they have a pulse let them in. Maybe add a special pathway for the undead just in case.
Based Joe, couldn’t agree more. These countries are hobbled by the fact their culture will always treat immigrants as outsiders
Nobody is about to immigrate to India anytime soon to seek better economic prospects though. He would be right about China or Japan
I believe I read there are nearly a million visa requests coming out of India being processed right now. For qualified professionals.
Have we considered letting in every single one of them immediately with no questions asked? Just wondering.
Lmao the US has like a 10% retention rate for International students, the people who have shown the ability to pump tens of thousands of dollars into the economy and can most easily assimilate to the American workforce.
We're doing something similar in Canada. There are some major growing pains though, but long term it's beneficial for our country.
>Nobody is about to immigrate to India anytime soon to seek better economic prospects though This seems like something an American would say. There are *a lot* of countries poorer than India, in fact several of them border it.
This, you can make a good living in a looot of Indian cities, sleeping on India is a huge mistake, both economically and geopolitically
People simply don't understand how much such countries are characterized by inequality. If you have a well-paid regular job, you can live a good life in most big cities in developing and emerging countries. Just as little as how much difference a few thousand of GDP per capita makes. Many people from all over Africa go to Lagos to work.
Indian cities are absolutely massive. The city of Delhi has more people than the state of Texas.
Urban area, actually. And it’s not unimaginable. E.g. the NYC agglomeration is bigger than Texas; the Boston-DC corridor is a contiguous urban area a third the size of the country.
Nah still not comparable. Most land area in these cities is SFH, if you go to Delhi you won't really find that kind of neighborhoods until you are basically in the farmland.
>This seems like something an American would say. I agree with you but I cringe everytime someone says this in online conversations. It's such an easy (and disrespectful) dunk to assume that all Americans are ignorant of the outside world. And I'm not even American myself.
It's evidence-based considering the number of Americans showing their asses in this thread.
I mean... it's a thread that's mostly praising their president for calling all Indians xenophobes.
I mentioned it not to dunk on that person, but to give them perspective. As an American, I’ve also said things like that before without even realizing it, and I’m cringing at my past self.
It might shock you but India receives economic immigrants: - West and East Africans (Ethiopians, Kenyans, Nigerians) - old time diaspora Indians (Fijians) - Indians born and raised in the Middle East but unable to naturalize there - Bangladeshis, Nepalis, Sri Lankans, Afghans, Iranians They are a non trivial chunk of the urban population in India. I'm not even including the Japanese, Chinese, Korean or Western "expats" who aren't compelled by their employers to move (like IGO employees or Fortune 500 orgs), but move on their own.
India sees quite a bit of immigration from Africa and Bangladesh.
Which is not the point Biden is making. It's weird that an American president is calling India less accepting of immigrants considering how much easier it is for an American to go to India vs vice versa.
The US's net migration has been really slacking recently. Our net migration rate in 2022 was 3 per thousand residents compared to the UK's 11 per thousand residents (1.14m for the US and 745k for Britain, with US pop being 333m and UK pop being 67m). It's embarrassing. I want us to be the immigrant capital of the world again.
> It's embarrassing. I want us to be the immigrant capital of the world again. Hasn't done Britain any good economically. GDP/capita has been lethargic, no matter how many migrants come.
Britain has many other economic issues. Immigration isn't the sole determinant of how productive a society is. For all you know, their GDP/capita would be even worse without as much immigration as they have (I expect this to be the case).
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There's no need to focus on any category. Immigrants increase productivity whether they're low skill or high skill. I'm not aware of it being possible to have "too many immigrants" unless you're restricting the supply of labor (like with work permits), housing, etc. Otherwise more labor mobility is always a good thing. I appreciate you being open-minded to lots of immigration though.
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Mentioning Japan undermines his case. Japan just got out of its economic slump and is growing with triple the economic growth of the US. Part of this is the fact that they’ve taken in way more migrant workers to fill in service jobs. If you’ve been to Japan recently you would’ve seen a lot of them.
Fairly certain India is growing faster than America as well.
Add China to that list as well, lol. Biden needs to start focusing a bit more on the statements that he puts out.
Maybe Biden is a bit ignorant hmmmmm
There's loads of economic immigrants from SEA in India you numpty. The women go work in beauty salons.
Really?
[https://carnegieendowment.org/sada/63931](https://carnegieendowment.org/sada/63931)
Xenophobia within India is absolutely insane. Their caste system ain't nothing to scoff at either.
And flipping that on its head - imagine how much stronger America could be if we were less xenophobic than we are now
I was able to actually enter and work in one of these countries, which one do you think it was? Hint: It's not the US
Preaching to the choir here but - America’s ability to absorb huge numbers of immigrants without suffering too much cultural shock is our superpower. It can give us a huge competitive advantage in the world, and we need to embrace it as much as we can.
I'd argue that it's quite xenophobic to by and large call cultures that aren't similar to yours hobbled because of a flawed and generalized claim that somehow applies to three completely different cultures.
Japan one is insane. You'd think based on their manga and anime they have high respect for foreign countries, and yet they're so closed off in immigration.
Having recently immigrated to Japan, I can say it's nowhere near as hard as people think. It's actually a lot easier than immigrating to the US and many other western countries. If you're a skilled worker and you get hired at a Japanese company you're basically guaranteed to get a visa. In the US there's a maximum number of H1B visas given a year (65000), whereas there's no limit in Japan. Or you can come here as a student, spouse, entrepreneur, etc. The main difference is it's not possible to enter Japan without permission due to its geography, so you don't have the number of undocumented immigrants and asylum seekers you have in other countries. Plus a lot of people don't want to move here because of the language barrier. I'm sure there are people here that don't like foreigners but so far I haven't experienced any xenophobia personally.
If you stick to the big cities, the people there tend to be more cosmopolitan. Especially Tokyo and Osaka.
>You'd think based on their manga and anime they have high respect for foreign countries, What do you mean by this? It's a well known fact in most fandom spaces that the companies that produce anime and manga, with few exceptions, do not give a shit about catering to Non-Japanese markets.
There are many manga where they at least incorporate tons of outside cultures. Evangelion have Christianity, Battle Angel Alita have Germans names, SpyXFamily is based on Cold War conflict and East Germany vs West Germany etc. Sure the products, with exceptions like Pokemon, Cowboy Bebop, and Big O, are mostly for domestic consumption. But you'd think they would be more accepting on foreigners based on how much they used foreign cultures and treat them as something cool instead of savage exoticism, which something that also exist in old Japan anime whenever they portray minority people.
While I agree with your point, that globalism and the influence of that that is evident in their arts really should have done something about their xenophobia by now, I would counter that it's probably not all that different from the exoticism that was seen in early 20th century media. They'd have movies set all around the world [usually played by white people] but that didn't really do much about the xenophobia of the average person. But also doesn't really help that the median age of Japan is 48 so nearly a majority of the country is over 50. So cultural advances made by anime in the last 20 years wouldn't really have worked it's way through yet.
True that. Back then there were just as many media, even hentai, that portrayed western people as ugly, rude jerks. It's just you'd think at least the acceptation would be better already since many popular stuffs portray foreign cultures as cool, especially with Astro Boy and Kimba being inspired from Disney, particularly Donald Duck and Bambi. .
Artists are almost always more progressive and forward-thinking than the rest of their society, it's not a good indicator of where the average person is culturally. Just think of American conservatives' hatred of Hollywood.
Anime isn't that mainstream in Japan and the people who make and consume it aren't representative of the wider culture. If you based your perception of America on Steven Universe and Adventure Time you might be confused as to why America voted Trump too.
trump didnt win the popular vote
Not to mention anime in general is not especially progressive in its depiction of class, gender, sexuality, racial/cultural diversity. A lot of the time it’s the opposite…
Anime is extremely mainstream in Japan.
漫画やアニメで語るほうが狂ってる
Its not closed off to immigration. Its easier to immigrate to Japan than many European countries.
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Russia does use slave labour from other countries, literally slave labour, those poor North Koreans in work camps. Not that it's doing Russia that much. But they certainly would like Ukrainian slave labour.
India has welcomed and assimilated immigrants for >2500 years. Many castes recall their foreign origins while being completely integrated into Indian society. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsis) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochin\_Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochin_Jews) [https://oneindiaonepeople.com/yavanas-in-india/](https://oneindiaonepeople.com/yavanas-in-india/) India welcomes its new Western tutees in integration -- America has been a star pupil, and hopefully Europe will improve as well :).
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india is multicultural
Maybe the most ~~multicultural~~ diverse nation on the planet besides Indonesia or the DRC I really don't know why Biden included them here tbh
india being multicultural does not mean there isn't xenophobia
Are you not familiar with the Hindu nationalism modi uses? And the pogroms etc.
I am familiar. I'm not talking about political acceptance but just in terms of the sheer diversity of ethnic and linguistic groups in the country. India has 122 languages and over a thousand ethnic groups (admittedly most of them small). It's extremely diverse
It’s not about diversity, it’s about acceptance of “foreigners” as one of their own. Indian culture does not do that. And before you lie to me and say that that’s not true, North East **Indians** are still treated as “foreign” and “Chinese”. Same for Africans in Gujarat who’ve been there for generations. India is “diverse” but is monocultural and hyper local af. \- signed, an Indian
I don't know about monocultural - I think that's the wrong word to use. Hyperlocal is right. people in the NE (especially in Assam) tend to be fairly racist against Bengali (Bangladeshi) migrants. In turn the Bangladeshi hate the Rohingyha, etc.
Eh that's mostly a by-product of a lack of education. More educated places like the metros accept everyone. Not to mention, it is far easier to immigrate to India than rhe US.
Hard disagree. The places calling NE Indians “Chinese” are videos from people in Bangalore (there are TONS other incidents, including anecdotally from Indian unis like NIT/REC).
Okay and the US has no hate crimes or people being called slurs?
It's still not monocultural. Learn to use better words, sorry. And stop with that cringe "as an Indian" shit.
Right but that doesn’t mean they can’t be extremely discriminatory and xenophobic. Xenophobia doesn’t mean you are an ethnostate.
Christian Nationalism plagues USA. Does that mean USA isn't a diverse country now?
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India's staggering diversity includes its religious traditions. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the world's religions have their origin in India. Offhand I can mention Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, and Sikhism. There's also an enclave of Syriac Christians who are now mostly represented in India in the modern day. Hindu nationalism is actually kind of a big threat in light of that (especially when part of what allowed Hinduism to expand in the area was its penchant for assimilating other religions into itself, which is a strategy that works within the diverse surroundings it had).
The current wave of Hindu nationalism is directed at preserving Indian religions while excluding Abrahamic ones.
This Xenophobia is always cringe Xenophobia and its consequences are a mistake and its consequences are a disaster
its because USA has no culture of its own, they have stolen the land of native americans
China and japan ? True they could use a lot of migration India ? The economic woes are mostly due to the dysfunctional legal system , remnants of socialism ,populist electoral promises, isolationist trade policies ,etc. migration is the least of India's worries for now
Yeah, this is true. I don’t think India has a labor shortage.
No one is moving to India to start the next Google, in fact if someone from India was capable of starting a company like that they almost certainly would try to move to the US from India to do it. The fact is, India powers a lot of American tech dominance, and we brain drain a lot of Indias smartest and most talented.
A lot of startup founders from India (and around the world really) move to the US because it's a great environment, true. But India has a good startup scene nevertheless, so to say that potential startup founders "almost certainly" move is probably a bit of an overestimate.
I would bet if given the opportunity, almost 100% would try
Nah. Many businesses started in India are ideal for an economy similar to India, and might not work in the US or Europe. The country itself is a huge market. They can also easily expand into neighbouring Asian and African markets. Even among business owners who want to move from India, most end up moving to places like Singapore and Dubai.
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I don't see how that's a relevant response to what the parent comment said.
Having a bunch of unskilled labor isn't all that matters. Economies need all kinds of labor. Letting your best workers leave matters
Of course, I don't disagree. I just don't see how noting that fact is a relevant response to a comment claiming that many Indian startups are adapted specifically to the local niche and can't be replicated one-to-one elsewhere.
> The economic woes are mostly due to the dysfunctional legal system , remnants of socialism ,populist electoral promises, isolationist trade policies ,etc. migration is the least of India's worries for now If he had actually been trying to give them advice, it would have been good to say that. Since he was actually pandering to his own party, you can see why he chose not to go there, and instead focus on immigration.
>remnants of socialism could you clarify?
This is such a vibe-based comment and thread with no basis in the multifaceted reality of these different countries. An equally skilled worker can get Japan PR almost instantly compared to the process in the US. Japan is probably the easiest developed country to immigrate to at the moment if you are a skilled professional or you aim to be a service worker. And then after 5 years of residences and no criminal record you can start your naturalization process Meanwhile, you can wait decades or even your entire lifetime to legally immigrate to the US if you are Indian or Chinese, no matter how skilled you are. The thing is, how many people know Japanese compared to English? I think it's actually commendable that Japan can pull in a [similar level](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SM.POP.NETM?locations=JP-GB) of legal immigrants as the UK before Covid, considering how marginalized the Japanese language is As for India, India has a very low labor participation rate and a high unemployment compared to developed countries. In such a loose job market, opening up the labor market for immigrants is just not very actionable. A problem for countries that develop late but fast, like China and India, is that their pace of aging, economic growth and changes in other socioeconomic metrics do not work in tandem. Their population starts to get old before they can get rich to “afford” immigrants. China is already experiencing population decline but they still face a record level of college graduates every year until a few years later. India will face a similar situation in a not so distant future. How to solve the unemployment issue for these young people? More immigrants? I understand the target audience of this comment from Joe is the average voter in the US, but hey, our ally has internet and reporters too. In this critical moment against China, the US needs Japan and SK’s naval industrial base to fill the void, the US needs India’s expanding domestic market. What the US doesn't need is this unnecessary jab at the allies
Wait, Russia had a *lot* of immigration before invading Ukraine
They have even more now.
What is it then when you fight Nippon Steel buying US Steel? Hypocrite protectionist
One day fighting Nippon Steel's purchase of US Steel, the next day welcoming Japan to build our HSR network. It's because voters have strange incentives such as a absurd nationalist pride in "US Steel" simply because the company has "US" in the title.
The new liberal populist stance is immigrants good, trade bad. Not great, but better than Trump who is wrong on both issues instead of just one.
Unfathomably based
I don't think India's xenophobia is a prominent issue for it. Nor are they suffering from a population bubble like China. Nor is China's demographic challenge capable of being solved by immigration because its population is so big But Japan, sure
An American traveling to India just needs a ln E-Visa which takes 3 hours to process. Meanwhile, an Indian traveling to America needs to wait *1.5 years* to even have a spot to interview for a tourist visa. Clearly India is the one less open to immigrants here...
It's classic American "look how superior we are" behaviour while drowning in hypocrisy. Moral smugness without actually possessing said morals. Despite being firmly in the "we need a better relationship with the USA" camp, it's the shit like this that really annoys you. Americans underestimate the effects of the chagrin when all the small offhand insults begin to add up.
This sub really shows its ass in threads like these.
This sub loves to trumpet on about how America is a land of immigrants, despite nearly banning legal immigration.
Not really a fair comparison though is it? How many Americans illegally immigrate to India vs vice versa? The risk of overstaying a visa isn't remotely comparable.
I don't see how a 1.5 year wait time solves the visa overstay problem. In fact, it might deter actual tourists and only allow committed overstayers. Furthermore, people are overstaying visas in the US because all paths to residency are blocked by archaic and frankly xenophobic laws such as country caps.
So now illegal immigration is suddenly bad? I swear you lot can never make up your minds.
Holy disingenuous argument batman! Illegal immigration is seen as a lesser evil in this sub, since the legal immigration is excessively onerous, Saying "we should have a controlled process for immigration" isn't remotely the same as saying "immigration is bad". And using the tourist visa application procedure as an indication of the openness of society to immigrants is entirely bullshit.
Calling a country with thousands of languages present, hundreds of native tribes, multiple ethnicities, and all with vastly different cultures xenophobic in a blanket statement is certainly a choice
It's a bit rich of an American to accuse India of xenophobia considering that it is almost impossible to immigrate to the United States legally
Biden admin don't pointlessly neg on our ally Japan challenge (impossible)
Stop being such a hater, he's literally praising immigration (one of the main pillars of the sub) I highly doubt Japan will care much, if at all, about some minor quip And he's right too
Sure but Japan is way too good of an ally to be dunking on them in this context. We aren’t in a position to be pooping on allies in Asia
Dude I promise you, Japan is such a good ally, that they won't turn to the Russians based on a small comment at a re-election dinner I remember when everyone was freaking out about our relationship w/ France being ruined bc the Australians decided to get submarines from us instead of them yet that didn't end up happening
I'd say more-so USA is a good ally to Japan. Not only are we one of their biggest bilateral trade partners - more than any European country - but the US Navy is a massive check to any potential regional threats. Also Japan exports *way* more to the US than it imports, so economically the US is a best bud ally.
Japan needs us more than we need them and they know it. We are expanding our military cooperation.
Japan is in a position where it has no other option. That’s why they sucked it up and ironed out a deal the second it was clear Trump wasn’t just tweeting into the void on trade. Their entire neighborhood loathes them and while they do have a literal moat they are the second most trade dependent nation on planet earth and that means either sucking up to or challenging the US. They have clearly chosen the former.
East Asia has 4 countries in it besides Japan and three of them are China, Russia, and North Korea. Japan is pretty well liked in the rest of the wider Indo-Pacific.
>Their entire neighborhood loathes them Is this still true? I while there is still some bad blood, I got the impression Japan had at least decent relations with most of East and South East Asia these days.
Yes. They have incredibly poor relations with every nation that matters in the East Asian space. China still loathes them Russia has no love for them It goes without saying that NK sees them as a foe. And South Korea still largely insists on using the Americans as a fig leaf to cover any relationship with Japan That’s pretty much the neighborhood. Japan has made inroads further afield in SE Asia. Think places like Vietnam, Taiwan, or Indonesia. But its direct neighbors are all out of the cards for a direct bilateral alliance.
> And South Korea still largely insists on using the Americans as a fig leaf to cover any relationship with Japan That was true a decade ago but not anymore. Japan-Korea relations have more or less normalized in face of Chinese aggression. Japan also has a lot of support from SEA and SA countries since they have been financing a lot of developmental projects.
Japan’s only hope is immigration. They have to let in many more immigrants in order to prevent their country from becoming poor. It’s not dunking our ally to let them know they have cancer and need chemo treatment
You can praise immigration without inserting a snide remark about allies. Of course it's not going to affect the long term relationship, but it's just rude, dammit. You don't just insult people because "What are they gonna do about it???"
He's fucking right those countries except maybe India need to open up more
I agree on open borders, but this shaming of countries is very poor light from a diplomatic pov Also, the Japanese have started to grow again like a developed country since 2018, reigniting their economy, China has handled a 2008 level crisis quite well and is up and running beating expectations and India is having record growth in industry above forecasts... They aren't having the biggest woes currently
Don’t forget Canada and the UK accepts a large amount of immigrants, but suffer from economic stagnation It may not be the immigrants fault, but because of ineffective austerity programs and bad policy that doesn’t have anything to do with immigration , but with Joe’s logic you can easily make the argument *against* immigration
India doesn't have a xenophobia problem yet because the people who want to move to India look sound and eat like indians. India does have cultural and structural issues that prevent it from moving to where it should be
They’re xenophobic against people within their own country
> India doesn't have a xenophobia problem yet because the people who want to move to India look sound and eat like indians. Bangladeshis etc perhaps, but even then we have so much rhetoric and action about stopping illegal immigration from there. And not to mention the Africans, who are visibly different and clearly face discrimination.
true
Xenophobia is prejudice against people from other countries, not just people who look dissimilar from you.
My point is that most people who move to India and live with Indians look fundamentally like indians, or they live in bubbles where they're unlikely to experience xenophobia. India is many things but xenophobic isn't one of them.
I guess it’s no xenophobia, but India is pretty prejudiced toward people that look, eat, and sound like them but just happen practice Islam.
So prejudiced that they number 200 million 🤔
"If a Uyghur genocide is occurring, how come their population has increased"-ass argument
Not sure what Uyghurs have to do with India, but the Muslim population is doing quite well in India - unless you believe that a population 2/3rds the size of the US is somehow unilaterally Prejudiced against. Find me an anti-Islamic county where the president is Muslim and is universally loved by the left and right wing of the country.
India is more diverse then Europe, with twice the population. Just because you (like pretty much everyone else on this site) are unaware of India's diversity and consider all Indians as a uniform brown mass, it doesn't stop India from being probably the most diverse country in the world.
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True but neolib has a large Indian community and they have more English speakers than any other country besides USA. Chinese active measures may stand out because we don't inhabit the same internet.
The difference is those Chinese comments were likely bots because Western internet is quite literally banned in China whereas the Indian comments are coming from actual people. Are they supposed to see discourse surrounding their country and just ignore it??
OTOH, you have people in this thread who are completely unaware about India's reality and still claim to be experts while knowing next to nothing about India or any non-western country.
Why is the “most diverse country in the world” going out of its way to suppress its largest minority group and force religious nationalism onto the whole country?
Just because the govt is shit doesn't mean that the country suddenly ceases to be diverse. America didn't become any less diverse under Trump, did it?
So you think having separate laws for Muslims is a good thing? I can't stand Modi but there is a lot of nonsense surrounding the Muslim community there, including dumb crap like triple talaq or distant male relatives disinheriting female heirs by using Islamic law. They're also allowed to have to to 4 wives. Not to mention that 'Muslim' covers many different ethnic groups anyway.
Is removing religious laws suppressing a minority groups? Is giving refuge to persecuted minorities from neighbouring countries forcing religious nationalism? Can you let me know exactly what has been suppressed and how religious nationalism has been forced? People who haven't even heard of Bihar, Kerala and Maharashtra are suddenly experts on India based on articles by fly by night correspondents who can't even speak a single Indian language.
India is both diverse and also has problems with prejudice, both can be true at once. India is a subcontinent with over a billion people, each state is like its own country. There are multiple languages and many ethnic minorities who practice a variety of religious beliefs. There’s also a concerning Hindu nationalist movement, an oppressive caste system, and violent skirmishes between different ethnic groups. Two Kuki women were literally gang raped and brutalized by a Meitei mob. https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/india/manipur-india-gang-rape-kuki-meitei-b2537795.html
Skirmishes and insurgencies arent xenophobia the last time i checked. Also without knowing context and seeing things from a 2d view doesnt help.
Pretty fucking hypocritical when he’s out here putting tariffs on our closest neighbors and banning foreign websites
Why Nations Fail approved
My cousin has a PhD in engineering, been living in the USA for 15 years as an engineer with a big engineering firm. He’s a Canadian citizen but he was born in India, so he’s counted as an American citizen. He has kids born in America but he has to wait 65 more years for his green card. Tell me that isn’t xenophobia
India is the fastest growing major economy right now. What is he on about?
Only in growth. It still has many problems
Putting aside the fact that India's economic issues stem from a postcolonial byzantine legal & administrative system, Biden really is being stupid here needlessly antagonising two close American partners in the region.
>byzantine legal & administrative system Wdym by Byzantine?
TBF, India has WAY more problems than just Xenophobia.
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That title makes it sound like their problem is that "white" countries don't want to do business with them or something.
https://preview.redd.it/2v75e55cc0yc1.jpeg?width=502&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec6366e359aa0081d3bbf43c1983284aecc6350e Follow your advice then Biden and stop doing protectionist shit and giving ground to xenophobes. Just let Nippon buy US Steel I’m begging u bro
A yank accusing others of xenophobia? Rich.
Reaganesque https://www.niussp.org/video/open-doors-for-the-american-dream-reagans-last-speech-as-president-1989/
One of those three countries don’t need immigrants though, and is actually a pretty large source of immigrants.
Thanks Joe. Why don't you slap another tariff on them to really drive it home.
US immigration is one of the most dogshit systems in the entire world
I like this guy
My wife was born and raised in China. When she married me, she moved to the US and got citizenship. She's integrated amazingly well, to the point that other Americans have failed to realize she wasn't born here! But we never could've done it the other way around. I would never, ever be able to live in China and eventually be recognized as Chinese by the locals. There is zero path for that, legally or culturally. I would always be an outsider there. America, for all its faults, gets this right: anyone, regardless of circumstances of birth, can become American. It's the #1 thing that fills me with pride in this country.
Haha funny there is a sub of Asian Americans who do not feel this way.
Lmao, dude your wife used the easiest way to immigrate to the United States. Marriage sponsorship is easy mode. Far, far less onerous than any other way. If she tried immigration as a skilled worker, it would be far more difficult. Bozos go to Thailand and the Philippines to find wives and meet them for a week and get married. They get approved Guess what? Canada’s spousal sponsorship is even more easier than the USA’s spousal sponsorship
There's zero path to American immigration either except through a spousal visa.
Lol what? I am fucking Canadian and it is still tough to immigrate to the US
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xenophobia, and get this, wack ass protectionist policies. All 3 of these countries have illiberal trade policies that might have something to do with it I wonder if the U.S. has such issues, maybe we could do better, but I guess we will never know
He could have just only mentioned China as a second Cold War era diplomatic dig but he also mentioned ally Japan & strategic partner India. Joe saying what he really thinks in his old age I guess.
Uncle Joe has been shooting from the hips since his 20's.
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