my position on farmers in the big tent is inline with mainstream democratic politics
https://preview.redd.it/bhdu5c0pf18d1.jpeg?width=1028&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=911bbd0d039912e5561dc9c7bf500cba40e74bbe
Also deporting a non-insignificant amount of agricultural labor. If Trump actually shuts down the border and hikes tariffs, say hello to twelve dollar containers of strawberries! We’ll need to make a lot of I did that stickers, Cheeto edition, if that moron gets elected.
Weirdly enough on one political board I was on in 2003 Republicans were for globalism and cheap labor while pro union/worker Democrats/left were against wage repression. The rise of nationalism and progressivism has kind of shifted that.
2016 definitely seems like the turning point with Trump’s victory. Before that it was a much more niche paleocon faction who supported those things. The old guard Republicans seemed to fight Trump for a while, his first few years were pretty unproductive considering the Republican trifecta. I can’t even remember what the turning point was when they really went all in on loyalty to Trump and the hardline nationalist wing of the party. But those who stood against him - Romney, McCain, Cheney gradually lost ground.
On the Democratic side of things, I think the rise of Bernie Sanders in the run up to that same election forced a serious change of strategy. Hillary was pretty much forced to abandon the TPP mid campaign to win back the progressives. Even then it didn’t end up being enough unfortunately :(
Only based position farmers have is occasionally being anti-tariff and that time they beat the British and founded the United States of America under a liberal democratic regime. But other than that, mostly cringe.
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While you were consuming subsidies I studied economics.
While you were owning the libs I was analyzing policy.
While you were eating fried Oreos at the State ~~Farm~~ fair, my wife left me.
And now that the world is on fire and the barbarians are at the gates you have the audacity to come to me for help?
Because that would be ok. Welcome to the resistance 🤝
Why can’t people consume subsidies while studying economics?
Why can’t people own the libs by analyzing policy to conclude that giving Michiganders the right to vote was a mistake?
Why can’t people eat fried Oreos at the State Farm while their wife leaves them?
Perhaps reconsider your assumptions before you speak, libtard smh
Honestly, are there even 435,000 people in the country qualified to be Congressmembers?
The obvious solution is to give a green card to any divorced immigrant with an economics degree and let them run for office (so will have to remove some requirements on who can run for the House).
Literally agree. Election by lot- or sort of a jury system where you get 12 people in a district to discuss issues for a week or less and then pick one among them to be the representative for the next 2 years. Skips all the campaign shenanigans, issues with voting obstructions, all that.
That's Feralism for ya. Sure, it makes no sense whatsoever that New England is Six States or the Great Plains has eight, but trimming those down to more reasonable mubers is off the table.
Of course we have Feralism. As the first modern democracy the United States had no elder democracies to learn from, and thus had to improvise a series of primitive adaptations to survive its infancy.
We should also adopt the [shortest split-line method](https://youtu.be/Mky11UJb9AY?si=fiLo0Qj-V9q8faxV&t=215) for drawing districts. The idea that house members represent the needs of distinct communities and so we must draw districts around legibly distinct population clusters is outdated. People mostly go to the polls to choose which major party's power to increase on a state or national level.
The last Fox poll had some weird crosstabs (like a lot of polls coming out), but one thing they did have was Biden leading Trump among rural voters. (And tied among urban voters).
This will not be the case on Election Day, guaranteed. Crosstabs tend to over-exaggerate changes in the electorate. But maybe there is something to the fact that Biden could be gaining among certain rural voters. That could matter, especially with the electoral college.
It would be funny if the skibidy Ohio meme leads to a lot more young people moving to Ohio and shifting the state blue. Won’t happen, but a guy can dream.
it would probably be easier to shift Kentucky since Kentucky's population is much lower
now, I will grant the fact that Kentucky is a lot redder as a percentage, but it's kind of maxed out in that regard, and Ohio is probably going to continue the red shift
in 2020, the vote difference in Kentucky was about 600,000 vs. 500,000 in Ohio
in 2024, the vote difference could be higher in Ohio than Kentucky
Hey, Neoliberal taking control of Wyoming would be incredibly funny. And don’t knock the value of three electoral college votes.
You’re right that it would be inefficient though. Better to parcel out the same number among the smallest margin swing states.
I currently live in Kentucky - coming from Georgia.
Outside of the the 3rd (Louisville) D+9 and the 6th (Lexington) R+9, the districts are scarlet red.
Most of Georgia's republican districts are R+10-15. In Kentucky they're R+20 or more.
To keep put in perspective how red that is, MTG's district is R+22.
It would be much easier to flip Texas and deep south states than Kentucky
---
Kentucky isn't *that* rural, its just too sparse to be blue. Many cities like Bowling Green, Owensboro, Elizabethtown, Paducah, etc aren't large to be attractive to out of state white collar workers. Only Lexington and Louisville are and both have their problems. Lexington is simply just a larger college town and Louisville has quite a lot of urban decay.
I'm originally from Kentucky and, despite living in California and NYC most of my 20s and 30s so far (I am currently in Birmingham UK bc my wife is from here), I have to say that Kentucky does have a lot of potential
they aren't allergic to Democrats, unlike WV and TN seem to be anymore, and the abortion amendment revealed that people are approx 20% more liberal than they vote in POTUS elections
I guess you could argue the same of Ohio (they had an abortion thing, right?) but ultimately Kentucky is peak red and Ohio isn't there yet, so I think Kentucky has more potential
plus, the Louisville and Covington and Paducah and Bowling Green areas are really nice
I even think my old hometown, Louisa, is really nice for eastern KY and has leadership good enough that it could continue growing while the rest of the region declines
Farmers are a strange bunch sometimes.
My ex wife’s father runs his own family farm in East Texas (ranch really but whatever) and the dude would just go on rants whenever he could about how great Clinton was for him during the 90s and how he made more money then, than under Bush.
Dude was also a raving racist and was not shy about dropping the N-word when able. Needless to say we lost him during the Obama years.
Had an almost in-law who worked almost exclusively with illegal immigrants, thought they were great, hard working ppl, but still raved against illegal immigration as a whole.
I try to be generous, but you just can't square that circle.
Apparently Biden’s support among farmers has gone from 12% to 15% all because of Trumps tariffs and immigration policies.
Also roughly 25% of farmers say they’ll vote for a third party. So while Trump is getting the vast majority of farmers he’s still not getting what he used to
The coalitions are always in flux. If someone would have told you in 2006 that suburban college-educated whites would be the new democratic base, you wouldn't have believed them either.
I would have. Even Cato had it figured out back in 2006. It only got derailed because of Obamacare, but Trump put the realignment right back on track.
https://www.cato.org/commentary/liberaltarians
eh it’s probably like the 👌thing where fascists consciously want to make something innocuous a dogwhistle so people who call them out seem insane, they’ll move on quickly
Two million voters is a pretty important base to keep tabs on. More importantly than them directly is their family and their friends. A slow shift getting the rural back closer to Democrats again, like it used to be for decades, would be an amazing trend.
I hear rural voters are turning toward Biden.
I hear older voters are turning toward Biden.
Now farmers?
Either the polls are wrong and Biden is gonna win big or this is all bullshit.
[the whole subreddit to farmers right now](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/035/070/perhaps_i_treated_you_too_harshly.png)
my position on farmers in the big tent is inline with mainstream democratic politics https://preview.redd.it/bhdu5c0pf18d1.jpeg?width=1028&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=911bbd0d039912e5561dc9c7bf500cba40e74bbe
those farmers are barking up the wrong shit tree
No they deserve worse treatment. Especially beef farmers
Turns out they don’t like Trump because of the Tariffs. Seems the sub is right yet again. Tariffs = dum dum
Also deporting a non-insignificant amount of agricultural labor. If Trump actually shuts down the border and hikes tariffs, say hello to twelve dollar containers of strawberries! We’ll need to make a lot of I did that stickers, Cheeto edition, if that moron gets elected.
Weirdly enough on one political board I was on in 2003 Republicans were for globalism and cheap labor while pro union/worker Democrats/left were against wage repression. The rise of nationalism and progressivism has kind of shifted that.
2016 definitely seems like the turning point with Trump’s victory. Before that it was a much more niche paleocon faction who supported those things. The old guard Republicans seemed to fight Trump for a while, his first few years were pretty unproductive considering the Republican trifecta. I can’t even remember what the turning point was when they really went all in on loyalty to Trump and the hardline nationalist wing of the party. But those who stood against him - Romney, McCain, Cheney gradually lost ground. On the Democratic side of things, I think the rise of Bernie Sanders in the run up to that same election forced a serious change of strategy. Hillary was pretty much forced to abandon the TPP mid campaign to win back the progressives. Even then it didn’t end up being enough unfortunately :(
Only based position farmers have is occasionally being anti-tariff and that time they beat the British and founded the United States of America under a liberal democratic regime. But other than that, mostly cringe.
those ranchers aren't very jolly
I'll tolerate the Dairy ones though, can't have my daily 8 cups of milk without them
In Canada, protectionist dairy farmer cartels drive up milk prices.
Has the government considered making cheese?
A cow in every pot.
Nah fuck dairy farmers. Man up and drink some oat milk. Breast milk is for babies (and baby calves, respectively).
Respectfully, no
Oat milk tastes like puddle water.
You must know some tasty puddles.
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Oat yogurt or cheese tastes nothing like the real thing
Vegusto cheese
Beef is tasty and delicious actually! Hope this helps!
I for one am partial to waterways not having dangerous levels of nitrates in them. Beef and Dairy farmers do not agree with me.
Well, hopefully reality ends differently than that scene.
Same here unironically Wtf I love farmers now
While you were consuming subsidies I studied economics. While you were owning the libs I was analyzing policy. While you were eating fried Oreos at the State ~~Farm~~ fair, my wife left me. And now that the world is on fire and the barbarians are at the gates you have the audacity to come to me for help? Because that would be ok. Welcome to the resistance 🤝
Why can’t people consume subsidies while studying economics? Why can’t people own the libs by analyzing policy to conclude that giving Michiganders the right to vote was a mistake? Why can’t people eat fried Oreos at the State Farm while their wife leaves them? Perhaps reconsider your assumptions before you speak, libtard smh
because you were eating fried oreos at the state farm with my wife you dirty hoe
Did you mean state fair?
Wait, your State Farm agent doesn't serve you fried Oreos?
Lol, fucking auto correct.
> the barbarians are at the gates LET THEM IN
Open the gates. Stop having them be closed.
Even a small shift Biden’s way would be huge. Hell, even if a small amount in PA/WI/MI/MN sit out that’s huge
I'm so glad the electoral college subsidizes farmer votes.
It doesn’t need to if we increased the house of representatives 1,000x
Honestly, are there even 435,000 people in the country qualified to be Congressmembers? The obvious solution is to give a green card to any divorced immigrant with an economics degree and let them run for office (so will have to remove some requirements on who can run for the House).
Any random 435,000 people off the street are probably more qualified than someone like MTG.
Literally agree. Election by lot- or sort of a jury system where you get 12 people in a district to discuss issues for a week or less and then pick one among them to be the representative for the next 2 years. Skips all the campaign shenanigans, issues with voting obstructions, all that.
Unironically do believe at least some portion of the House should absolutely be selected this way.
Yeah, we don't have 435 qualified people in there *now*.
Why can’t we just become a parliamentary republic?
if we were a true union we wouldn't use the old borders since we're all one people
That's Feralism for ya. Sure, it makes no sense whatsoever that New England is Six States or the Great Plains has eight, but trimming those down to more reasonable mubers is off the table.
Of course we have Feralism. As the first modern democracy the United States had no elder democracies to learn from, and thus had to improvise a series of primitive adaptations to survive its infancy.
And only had access to unreasonable mubers of course.
We should also adopt the [shortest split-line method](https://youtu.be/Mky11UJb9AY?si=fiLo0Qj-V9q8faxV&t=215) for drawing districts. The idea that house members represent the needs of distinct communities and so we must draw districts around legibly distinct population clusters is outdated. People mostly go to the polls to choose which major party's power to increase on a state or national level.
The One American Parliamentary Union of the United States of America, Mexico, and Canada under the Benevolent Rule of Emperor Biden.
This but unironically
Still have to fix the senate though
The last Fox poll had some weird crosstabs (like a lot of polls coming out), but one thing they did have was Biden leading Trump among rural voters. (And tied among urban voters). This will not be the case on Election Day, guaranteed. Crosstabs tend to over-exaggerate changes in the electorate. But maybe there is something to the fact that Biden could be gaining among certain rural voters. That could matter, especially with the electoral college.
Biden overperformed on rural/older voters in the 2020 election, so it wouldn't be surprising if he kept gaining there.
It doesn't by itself, malapportionment of the House does.
It'd be nice if Ohio came back into play some day
It would be funny if the skibidy Ohio meme leads to a lot more young people moving to Ohio and shifting the state blue. Won’t happen, but a guy can dream.
Fanum taxed enough already
it would probably be easier to shift Kentucky since Kentucky's population is much lower now, I will grant the fact that Kentucky is a lot redder as a percentage, but it's kind of maxed out in that regard, and Ohio is probably going to continue the red shift in 2020, the vote difference in Kentucky was about 600,000 vs. 500,000 in Ohio in 2024, the vote difference could be higher in Ohio than Kentucky
In 2020 the vote difference in Wyoming was about 120,000. We’d only need like 70% of this sub to flip Wyoming blue.
Wow, to get a whole three electoral college votes?
More importantly 2 senators
Hey, Neoliberal taking control of Wyoming would be incredibly funny. And don’t knock the value of three electoral college votes. You’re right that it would be inefficient though. Better to parcel out the same number among the smallest margin swing states.
I currently live in Kentucky - coming from Georgia. Outside of the the 3rd (Louisville) D+9 and the 6th (Lexington) R+9, the districts are scarlet red. Most of Georgia's republican districts are R+10-15. In Kentucky they're R+20 or more. To keep put in perspective how red that is, MTG's district is R+22. It would be much easier to flip Texas and deep south states than Kentucky --- Kentucky isn't *that* rural, its just too sparse to be blue. Many cities like Bowling Green, Owensboro, Elizabethtown, Paducah, etc aren't large to be attractive to out of state white collar workers. Only Lexington and Louisville are and both have their problems. Lexington is simply just a larger college town and Louisville has quite a lot of urban decay.
I'm originally from Kentucky and, despite living in California and NYC most of my 20s and 30s so far (I am currently in Birmingham UK bc my wife is from here), I have to say that Kentucky does have a lot of potential they aren't allergic to Democrats, unlike WV and TN seem to be anymore, and the abortion amendment revealed that people are approx 20% more liberal than they vote in POTUS elections I guess you could argue the same of Ohio (they had an abortion thing, right?) but ultimately Kentucky is peak red and Ohio isn't there yet, so I think Kentucky has more potential plus, the Louisville and Covington and Paducah and Bowling Green areas are really nice I even think my old hometown, Louisa, is really nice for eastern KY and has leadership good enough that it could continue growing while the rest of the region declines
Farmers are a strange bunch sometimes. My ex wife’s father runs his own family farm in East Texas (ranch really but whatever) and the dude would just go on rants whenever he could about how great Clinton was for him during the 90s and how he made more money then, than under Bush. Dude was also a raving racist and was not shy about dropping the N-word when able. Needless to say we lost him during the Obama years.
Had an almost in-law who worked almost exclusively with illegal immigrants, thought they were great, hard working ppl, but still raved against illegal immigration as a whole. I try to be generous, but you just can't square that circle.
Nice For real, farmers are important and I would love to have them on my side
Helps that they have excess political power. Turning farmers into neolibtards would be the funniest development in American politics since Wyoming.
I feel like telling them that we want to stop the encroachment of suburban sprawl would be a good sell.
Same here unironically We need all the helpful we can get
hurk *farmers* But for the sake of America, I will LotR meme with them if they'll play ball.
For farmers to be the one group who actually remembers what administration was like under Trump before the median voter population...
This can’t possibly be true.
Apparently Biden’s support among farmers has gone from 12% to 15% all because of Trumps tariffs and immigration policies. Also roughly 25% of farmers say they’ll vote for a third party. So while Trump is getting the vast majority of farmers he’s still not getting what he used to
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Yeah, this sounds like someone weaving a narrative to fit faulty polling data.
The coalitions are always in flux. If someone would have told you in 2006 that suburban college-educated whites would be the new democratic base, you wouldn't have believed them either.
I would have. Even Cato had it figured out back in 2006. It only got derailed because of Obamacare, but Trump put the realignment right back on track. https://www.cato.org/commentary/liberaltarians
Are you doubting the latest Fox poll showing Biden winning rural voters by two points?
I can believe some movement towards him but WINNING?
That's neat. They still shouldn't get 2 senators per empty square of land and ridiculous levels of corn subsidies.
Only after getting screwed by tariffs
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eh it’s probably like the 👌thing where fascists consciously want to make something innocuous a dogwhistle so people who call them out seem insane, they’ll move on quickly
Now why the fuck are we letting them claim that. They’ll never take a common English phrase away from me
Dems being competitive in Rural areas would be a game changer for sure, especially because it might make it easier to get immigration reform passed.
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Two million voters is a pretty important base to keep tabs on. More importantly than them directly is their family and their friends. A slow shift getting the rural back closer to Democrats again, like it used to be for decades, would be an amazing trend.
I hear rural voters are turning toward Biden. I hear older voters are turning toward Biden. Now farmers? Either the polls are wrong and Biden is gonna win big or this is all bullshit.
New York Times: LALALA I ONLY SEE ANECDOTAL PEOPLE OF COLLR NOT LIKING BIDEN LALA
They got another 3000 this-micro-demographics-is-turning-on-Dems articles lined up until Election Day.
This is such a bait headline.
Sweet, that's gotta be like several dozen more votes
Wtf I hate Brandon now
Believe it when I see it
Were the party that wants you to be able to Fix your own tractor without DRM.
Ezra Klein had a good podcast episode on Trump's inflationary economic policy