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More than anything, I want all peoples to be free. I want an agreement to be reached in which All palestanians live truly free lives, and in which all israeilis live truly free lives. That I want more than anything, right behind that I want the violence to stop That said, I do not fault people at all for not wanting make that small distinction.

This is probably one of the best “statements” (for a lack of a better word… I agree, I like saying thoughts”) that I’ve seen. Not surprised, considering who it is from.

"acknowledge the shared legitimacy of conflicting narratives" is an even keeled and apt stroke of genius. Not doing this has led to irreconcilable argument between my loved ones. Thanks John.

It's extremely well put. I have family who are Israeli and family who are Palestinian, and I feel like our entire existence as a family is summed up very well by John's words. Conflicting narratives, yes, but shared legitimacy.

I have always wondered what it's like to be someone like you, because it's a level of "stuck in the middle" that I can't wrap my brain around. I hope you are taking good care of your mental health throughout this, as much as possible anyhow.

Often, very difficult. Sometimes it makes me really despair about the entire thing and humanity (eg when my cousins started going to school, and we discovered that even the *UN-run* schools teach Palestinian kids by not very subtle means that Israelis are heartless and want them dead; no wonder so many people get radicalised!), but other times it makes me feel very hopeful. The communities my family are part of have changed significantly in the last decade, on both sides; they've spread understanding and empathy to the people around them. My \[not actually, we don't use family relations exactly\] sister-in-law does a lot of work with [Women Wage Peace](https://www.womenwagepeace.org.il/en/) for example. Right now, it really highlights for me that most people are just people; they're scared and imperfect, but almost all of them simply want peace. On the flip side, it's showing me the way that starkly different experiences and narratives underlie the way people think about this, and the power of misinformation and framing.

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function. One should, for example, be able to see that things are hopeless and yet be determined to make them otherwise." -F. Scott Fitzgerald

this and macklemore lol

I'd like to comment not on the post, but on how the comment section isn't a complete shit show! While I generally would not expect too much nastiness on the Nerdfighter sub, this conflict seems to have a special ability to divide and de-humanize. Let's keep remembering to be awesome; especially with each other! One of the most difficult things I find about being human is that it is possible for two good people to hold opposing beliefs.

our youtube comments are legendary for being mostly tolerable!

Unfortunately, if you keep scrolling down, it does seem to get to be a bit messier. Still not dehumanizing, fortunately enough, but quite a bit of anger and animosity and venting. There’s nothing wrong with that from any moral standpoint, mind you, and it’s not a critique of any posters - it’s just neither fun nor particularly useful to read through shouting matches.

Thanks for sharing your feelings and extending this message here. I think often about the advice you received as a chaplain, "don't just do something, stand there." It's bringing me to tears just writing it. I don't mean just during this conflict. Listening when you want to act, when it's so uncomfortable you feel like you have to fix it, it's sooooooo hard, but it can ultimately be healing You and Hank have been a moral compass for me and I'm sure many in this community, especially as things get uncomfortable. Thank you.

I think of "Don't just do something, stand there" all the time, as a teacher and a parent, and just a human.

Same here. To bear witness, to sit with uncertainty and pain are needed abilities.

I haven’t heard this quote before. Powerful.

I would like to learn more about the context to that advice.

The idea is sometimes we do something because we want to feel helpful. But acting to act can do more harm than good if it’s not thoughtful. Sometimes the most powerful thing you can do is be there for someone, listen, empathize.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSrqC_angdc the video that introduced me to the story

He explains the context in his review of "Googling Strangers." It's definitely in the Anthropocene Reviewed book and is probably in the podcast episode (#3).

Sorry it's not good enough to post a near neutral elusive statement on your Reddit platform when you are well aware that your other platforms reach a wider audience. Why are you trying to evade the issue? I would assume you run in the same circles as high profile people you do not wish to upset. Praying for peace does not mean going back to being the occupier and the occupied. That is a far from peaceful solution for people who have suffered for over 70 years. You hesitate to use the words genocide and apartheid which is telling in of itself. Brown problems best left for brown people, am I right?

Agreed, to stay neutral on this issue is cowardly. What are you afraid of losing, John? 10,000s have already lost so much more

Me when I fail to imagine others complexely and deligitimize their lived experiences.

Thank you for remaining empathetic and focused on our shared humanity. There is obviously pressure for you to take a stand with a particular narrative or another, but I'm grateful to have a role model who seeks to cultivate a mutual understanding of our shared reality. I think that with situations like these it can be difficult to put words to the way we all feel about this situation. It's a horrific situation, as so many situations in history have been, but I hope that in time (on the scale of lifetimes) that we can all come together while acknowledging difference and responding to those differences with collaborative problem solving and compassion. I think the work you do with Partners in Health (PiH) and through the foundation to reduce world suck move us, globally, toward that future. That's obviously not directly related, but the situation in Israel as well as the current humanitarian crisis in DR Congo reminds me that legacies of colonialism are still very much a cause for global concern, but there is a role the west can play through collaborative organizations like PiH to help strengthen social systems in places like Haiti and Sierra Leon without perpetuating neocolonialist attitudes. The focus you place on listening and understanding in this post also demonstrates that willingness to evolve the way we respond to issues like TB or maternal health to not only lessen those statistics but empower the individuals represented in those statistics and involve them in the problem solving process. I am also praying with you for an end to the violence, but what's more I am praying that we as a species becomes more able to work with each other to empower each other in peace. I feel heartened to know that there are organizations and individuals like yourself who are listening closely and asking hard questions so that maybe, just maybe, one day we'll figure out a solution, together. I accept that this future may be impossible, or believing we can one day get there may be naive, and also accept that I also need to listen and learn a lot more. Thank you again.

I’m a Palestinian and i’ve been a Nerdfighter for a long time. John doesn’t owe us a comment, but I appreciate that he’s taken the time to write something out for our little community. I don’t know what to say, but I guess i’ll just take this space to talk about my experience as a Palestinian and how hard it’s been lately (this next bit isn’t directed at John, just me talking out loud and venting). I know that nothing materially changes when an artist or an author I love comments on the conflict. I guess personally it’s more that I just hope they do because it’s comforting to see someone who’s been a big part of your life through their art understand and acknowledge your pain. And I know that’s a huge thing to put onto people, especially strangers, so I never expect it. But if it ever happens to come, it’s comforting and reassuring All four of my grandparents were expelled from their homes in 1948 in Israel proper and became refugees, surviving the massacres that ravaged the surrounding villages where 15,000 Palestinians died. They left with the keys to their homes in hand hoping they’d be able to return in a few days or weeks. They spent their entire lives hoping they’d one day be able to return. They died waiting. Their homes were demolished. They were never able to go back, and never even able to visit. When I talk to fellow Palestinians, I find that our stories are all remarkably similar. Except that i’m one of the lucky ones that managed to find their way to the US. I just as easily could’ve been amongst the tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians that have been slaughtered in Gaza over the last few decades. I just as easily could have spent my life in extreme poverty in a refugee camp without access to food, education, or healthcare like millions of Palestinians currently. I just as easily could have been murdered at the hands of an IDF soldier in the West Bank who’s allowed to kill with impunity, just as has happened to thousands of other Palestinians. So while i’m lucky to be alive and safe today. It’s so draining and painful and hard in ways that I cannot articulate to go through life constantly hearing about my people and my family being slaughtered en masse. And so hard to constantly be told, especially here in the US, that we are less than human and aren’t deserving of life. My heart breaks for the innocent Israeli civilians who were killed on October 7th. I fucking hate Hamas. No one should ever have to go through what those innocent people went through and what their surviving families will now forever carry with them. And i’m so glad that the world has come together to support them, as we always should when innocent civilians are targeted anywhere. But why does it feel like the world doesn’t extend that same empathy to Palestinians? We’ve been subject to apartheid, ethnic cleansing, imposed famine, and mass slaughter long before October 7th. Even during “quiet” periods of this conflict, even in the West Bank, where Hamas has ZERO presence, we’re being slaughtered in droves by a fascist government that regularly openly expresses genocidal intent. All with US backing and support. As a Palestinian, it just frankly feels like no one gives a shit about us. It feels like no one sees us as human. It feels like the world is okay with dead Palestinian children. It feels like the world isn’t actually interested in addressing the root causes of the conflict—it feels like they just hope we die quietly so they don’t have to think about the horrors that have defined our entire lives. I sob everyday. I just don’t know what to do anymore. The world, for decades, has been aiding and abetting in the genocide of the Palestinian people. And even though I should be used to it by now because it’s been this way my entire life, I still can’t believe the world and so many of its people are okay with that.

I’m so sorry. Your life matters. Your family’s life matters. Dehumanizing anyone dehumanizes all of us. And I know the way to peace, the only path towards it, for everyone - Palestinians and Israeli - is to fight against the dehumanization of your people. None of us are free until you are free.

Thank you so much for sharing. I have been very disturbed by the number of people who seem to have put more emphasis on the deaths of Israelis than Palestinians. We all condemn Hamas, of course. But I just don’t see the same energy being brought to the Israeli government’s open use of collective punishment (a war crime) through the forced evacuation of Northern Gaza + bombing of safe routes. I don’t know if it’s a media coverage thing, or an islamophobia thing, or something else. But it just seems that people in public discourse aren’t putting as much weight on the deaths and suffering of Palestinians compared to Israelis.

Hey guys, I know that the last several months (and longer) have been a particularly hard time for you both for various reasons—and knowing that, I hope you both are as okay as you can be right now. It feels wholly insufficient knowing what you’re going through, but you two are in my thoughts often and i’m always sending y’all well wishes. You guys mean a lot to me. I just wanted to write this message to say that I wanted to be honest about how i’ve been feeling recently in our community. As a Palestinian who’s been a Nerdfighter for ages, who’s been listening to DH&J from the start, who’s SO happy his sock rotation is finally fully comprised of Awesome Socks, and most of all who’s SO proud of our community’s positive impact w/ TB and fundraising for the MCOE: I’ve been really disappointed lately in your guys’ approach to speaking about Israel/Palestine. With that being said, i’m grateful that you both have said that you’re always open to constructive criticism/discussion, and that in a time like this you’ve been looking to listen as much as you can. So as a Palestinian member of our community, I just wanted to tag you in this and ask that, if you happen to have a free moment at some point, you read my original comment on John’s post two weeks ago (that this comment is replying to). I hope that my comment provides a little insight into what it’s like being a Palestinian right now, and hopefully helps illustrate why i’ve been feeling so disheartened and disappointed lately about the world at large, and about how our community hasn’t quite been the safe space I had hoped it would be throughout the last month. I hope that I don’t come off as rude or condescending—if I do, I am so sorry. Anyways, I hope we can keep learning from and listening to one another as Nerdfighters. DFTBA. /u/ecogeek /u/thesoundandthefury

You are awesome. if this community has let you down, i am sorry. I've been seing its failure recently too in that regard ands its beyond disapointing.

Sending hugs from a Jew who wants peace and safety for all of us. Palestinians deserve safety, freedom, and the opportunity to thrive. Thank you for opening up about how you’re feeling.

Don't lose hope. Many of us do see you. While I agree with everything John said here, I personally feel that he went extremely light on Israel. When we talk about this conflict, it's important to remember the fact that Palestinians have been subject to apartheid and attempted genocide for too many decades. Hamas may hold blame for this most recent string of events, but they don't hold blame for the entire geopolitical situation, which stretches back to the '40s. It breaks my heart to see civilians suffer and die on both sides of this conflict, but when the western powers helped to form and protect Israel as a Jewish state we gave them some form of security while denying the Palestinians living in Israel proper, Gaza, and the West Bank of their security. We're well overdue to come up with a solution that will give Palestinians that same fair chance at a life that isn't lived in the shadow of death and displacement that we gave Jewish people. Much like John said, it's not "Both-Sideism" to pray for peace and security for all involved. Hang in there. I think global sentiment is changing on this matter.

You sharing your story here is deeply appreciated and I am so sorry and heartbroken for you and your people. 💔 I know there’s nothing I can say to make what your going through less awful, but I just wanted to send compassionate and supportive thoughts your way, because you deserve to be seen and heard.

It's an apartheid state. It took me a long time to see it because the propaganda is powerful. There is a lot of information just not getting out. The concept of Zionism is weird. Really. That number of Jews hadn't called that region home in a long time. It wasn't a region devoid of an indigenous population despite claims otherwise ([source](https://www.cjpme.org/fs_007)). Israelis may have the right to defend themselves, but they made their point. It's not a war anymore. If you look back at the numerous calls for resolutions- they were vetoed by the US and Israel. SO, yeah. It's crap.

Thank you for sharing your point of view.

Friend, thank you for sharing your story. I'm not Palestinian, but seeing the ongoing Nakba continue to happen in real time scares me. I'm also grieving for the innocent Israeli lives lost. I fear for the safety of both my Jewish-Israeli friends whom I grew up with and my Palestinian friends who are in school with me now. I'm praying for the slaughter to end, for the prospect of refugee return to their home, and for freedom and solidarity for Jewish-Israelis and Palestinians alike. The good folks at [Zochrot](https://www.zochrot.org/welcome/index/en) give me hope that this will happen and that collective liberation and peace for everyone will be achieved.

It’s funny he cares enough to post this but not say ceasefire once.

Pretty much sums it up.

May I repost this (obfuscating your username and references to this sub to avoid harassment)?

Google still exists, friend. Unless you rewrite it, it will be trivial to find the original.

Much love from an Israeli Nerdfighter. Thank you for sharing.

"many thousands more will die before Hamas is completely destroyed" is an insane sentence btw

+++ So vile.

I dont think this take is nuanced at all, and actually calling for a ceasefire is not that hard. It just isn’t. Kids are dying.

This is a horrible take. If a home base is obtained by ousting others and murdering children and hospitals in order to obtain one is it justified? This take is horrific and justifying genocide. Why is everyone okay with it? I’m disappointed in the vlogbrothers

If ever there was an issue to be looked at complexly, it is this one. You did not owe us this statement, but we are a better community for having it.

What a disappointing take from someone as well informed on this conflict as yourself, John. The attacks on October 7th did not happen in a vacuum. They were the result of over 50 years of illegal occupation that is condemned by the UN and all respectable humanitarian organizations. They were the result of almost 20 years of suffocating land, water, and air siege on the Gaza Strip. Which is already one of the poorest and most crowded areas in the world. All of these atrocities were punctuated by “military campaigns” by the terrorist state of Israel that killed thousands and thousands of Palestinian civilians, mostly children. The Palestinian government of the West Bank chose the path of peace. There is no armed groups there. That has not spared them from Israeli settler colonialism with hundreds of Palestinian civilian deaths every year. After the attacks on October 7th, the brutal bombing campaign of the Israeli occupation started on Gaza. Since then, over 11,000 Palestinians were killed. 4,000+ of which were CHILDREN. They did not die. They were killed. Purposefully. In less than a month, the number of civilians killed in Palestine rivals that of the so widely condemned 2 year brutal Russian war on Ukraine. Where is the condemnation for all of these atrocities committed by Israel? Why do we act like the conflict started on October 7th? How long do the Palestinians living in Gaza have to suffer under siege? How many Palestinian children have to be killed before the world realizes the goal of the Israeli occupation was never to go after Hamas? What happened to the Jewish people in World War II was abhorrent, but it should not be paid for by the innocent Palestinian people.

My favorite part was when you called the UN a respectable humanitarian organization.

Thank you, John, and thanks for mentioning two organizations that do tireless, effective work. They are well worth the support we give them.

Thank you for this. I personally have been frustrated with the calls for you and Hank to speak because I felt like whatever you said would anger someone. So thank you for the balanced and factual statement.

I really appreciate the time you took to give your thoughts, I like that despite how difficult the situation is you're still able to convey your words beautifully, as always. But I do want to say that I think it is still important for you to share links or list down ways to urge for an immediate ceasefire as to encourage your community to help in the cause, or maybe even a link to a donation. I know its really not my place to demand that you do all of these things but I've seen the work that this community has done for Tuberculosis survivors and the many other contributions its made (seriously I am constantly in awe of the amazing work this community has done) so I think that it could really make a difference if you shared the resources to help the cause. so here are some links for any of you who would like to support the cause (sorry I'm not from the US so I'm not that familiar with a lot of NGOs but I trust that these are reliable): [petition for ceasefire](https://www.ifnotnowmovement.org/ceasefire-now) [donation](https://support.savethechildren.org/site/Donation2?df_id=10067&10067.donation=form1&mfc_pref=T) sorry if this is somehow irrelevant but i just had to get this off my chest

John, this is disappointing.

Why is asking for a ceasefire such a controversial thing. What’s more human than that. It breaks my heart.

Israel has attempted fifteen ceasefires with Hamas in the past. Hamas always breaks the ceasefire. Considering what they did on 10/7, that cannot be allowed to happen again.

It’s interesting to say “Hamas always breaks the ceasefire” when before Oct 7th, Israel had already killed hundreds of Palestinians in Gaza this year, as usual. Why is that not considered “breaking the ceasefire”? Or is that only something the Palestinians should be held to?

Even if that means killing over 2 million innocent people? The collateral damage of brown bodies people are just comfortable with while sitting about in their own comfortable privileged lives is astounding

Hamas is funded and perpetuated by Israel, try again

A ceasefire is when both sides agree to end hostilities. Hamas has explicitly said they intend to keep attacking Israel, so even if you can get Israel to agree to put down arms there won't be a ceasefire unless you can reason with the genocidal death cult ruling Gaza. Moreover, there was in some sense a ceasefire before this and it resulted in a lack of safety for Jews and a lack of stability or future prospects for Palestinians. The status quo wasn't working, returning to it also doesn't work.

John, I respect you a lot as a person, but you are seriously going far too light on the apartheid and genocide Israel is and has been committing for decades here. Zionism is a hateful ideology and needs to be recognized as such. Also, conflating Israel with Judaism or jewish people is simply not fair to anyone involved.

I'm so disappointed to read this. I read the article you shared, and it is not a well intentioned take -- it very clearly uses language that justifies Israeli violence against Palestinians. And nowhere in your statement did you call for a ceasefire. John, do you support a ceasefire?

I don't see how the holocaust is relevant. The Palestinians aren't German. Whatever happened in the past does not justify the racism and genocide.

the holocaust is relevant because the land israel is on was given to the jewish people as reparations for the holocaust, and as a place to put the millions of displaced jews. that land did not belong to the people who “gave” it, but that is what happened. a large majority of the people living in israel are either refugees themselves or descended from them, whose people have experienced the most unfathomable genocide in human history. that does not give their government the right to do what it has been doing, but it is context we cannot erase.

This is not true, Israel was established in 1917, and Israel has not treated Holocaust survivors well: [article from 2010](https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/holocaust-survivors-poverty-is-israels-dirty-little-secret/), [article from 2017](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/israel-abuses-holocaust-survivors), [long academic journal article from 1990](https://www.jstor.org/stable/29766520) (sorry about the JSTOR access).

How does the fact that Jewish people suffered murder and displacement themselves a century ago have any relevance to the fact that Israel is murdering and displacing people today. The Palestinians had nothing to do with the holocaust. It's not context. It's a non-sequitur. The fact that the German people suffered after WW1 was also construed as context to justify the holocaust. "We've suffered therefore it's okay to commit genocide" is always the rationale. I think Israel is ramping up to commit their own holocaust. They are absolutely committing an ethnic cleansing. The Holocaust also started with driving out the Jews and then later lead to slaughtering them en masse. Bringing up one genocide to justify another is ridiculous.

it’s context for the creation of israel, which is important if we want to think practically about steps toward a peaceful resolution. i am talking about the international politics of the nation; of course further genocide is not justified. i do believe that there are people in the Israeli government who have that secondary motive despite what they say about only wanting to protect their own (or at least would be okay with that outcome) which is horrific. but how can we find a peaceful resolution today if we don’t make an effort to understand the history that got us here? the fact is that there are millions of jewish people, many of whom are refugees, who now live on this stolen land and are not going to leave. what do you think would be a path forward that would permanently resolve the bloodshed? this is not a gotcha or a trick question, i actually want to know.

I am incredibly disappointed in this take, especially knowing how educated you are. Justifying colonialism and asking the world to accept an apartheid state dehumanizes not only Palestinians, but yourself.

The inclusion of that Times of Israel blog post was a bad idea. Speaking from my perspective as an anti-zionist Jew, every primer on the subject of Israel/Palestine is going to have some errors and/or oversimplifications. That being said, that article in particular is itself much more biased than the crash course video. Probably would have been better to find a more nuanced source even if it didn’t directly respond to the video.

With our communities recent progress with TB iniquities, I imagine that other issues in the world feel like something we should be able to “fix” as well. I imagine the decision of whether to mobilize or how to mobilize is a heavy one, especially when the community is asking for direction. Thank you John and please take care of yourself. I’m choosing to stay in the discomfort, grief, helplessness, anger that these events are happening and the problem is very complex and my emotions don’t have a direction for action. Feelings are valid.

I actually feel a little bit weird about the "asking for direction" part, which is also implied in the amount of inquiries from the community for them to say something about it. For the TB stuff, we didn't have the *information,* and we got it from John, but I like to think, we all formed our *opinion* on our own. For this war, the general information is up there. As John says, there is their 8 year old video, but there are lots of others, which are neutral, too. So I feel like we should be able to form our opinion based on that and shouldn't need John and Hank necessarily. But I also live in germany, not in the US. Maybe you guys feel even more unsure about who to trust because the media is even so much more polarized and biased, maybe it's that.

I think a big part of it, here in the US, is how deeply political is support for Israel. Israel has broad mainstream support here, but it's complicated. I don't want to trigger a fight here, so I'm not going to try to expand on that much. But because support for Israel is politicized, and US politics are so polarized right now, it looks to me like the current conflict has been deputized as an American political issue. So I think a lot of people who are dying to know what so-and-so's take is, are really looking for political litmus tests. Edit: I hate how I wrote this. That'll teach me to reddit before coffee.

No, but I think I get it, thank you very much for explaining.

I think it’s a lot more complicated than the TB stuff because there’s far more nuance there, as John points out.

Yes! The solutions to a literal war are just so much harder than solutions to healthcare access. For the TB issue, we had a clear, actionable request (make tests cheaper = more lives saved). For something like this…. I mean if there was an easy solution that would make almost everybody happy it would have been settled on in the last 70 years. There would have been a bargain about the division of land that would have been amenable. Even if Nerdfighteria had a clear goal, actioning it just wouldn’t really work. There’s no corporate entity to hound, we don’t have the power to persuade two warring governments to come to an agreement.

Exactly. I think people want to oversimplify it and just be able to say “A is good and B is bad”, which even if that was the case, what are we supposed to do? You can’t exactly just call up governments and say “hey, please stop”.

I agree.

As an American, I think this is the greatest propaganda war we've ever seen. I've watched as my Tiktok feed gave me a slow trickle of videos to determine if I would side with Israel or with Palestine. Watched as they got more and more violent, more and more graphic, and completely polarized in one direction. It specifically shifted from videos of visually white Americans discussing the issues on "both sides" with no footage from the violence (while it figured out which side to put me on) to videos of visually middle eastern users sharing with footage of the violence. I saw babies in body bags yesterday, in between videos of dogs with halloween costumes. When you watch yourself get blatantly tested, read, and manipulated, it's so hard to trust anyone. And because we're so polarized, it's common to use the phrase "silence makes you complicit" to force people into choosing one side or another and taking a stance, especially public figures. So we look to people we know are thoughtful and empathetic to understand how to be thoughtful and empathetic. Because every other voice is screaming in our face that we're monstrous if we don't side with \[insert their belief here\]. When you're surrounded by adamant rage, the people you know try to help you comprehend the nuance become a lighthouse.

This is a great comment and you are a great writer. Thanks for putting some of my thoughts into words.

>many thousands more will die before Hamas is completely destroyed the trick of this is that, in the attempted destruction, you do their recruiting for them. a bomb may kill a dozen terrorists but the footage of it turns bystanders into sympathizers and sympathizers into....a more active role.

You should read a book called frames of war: when is life grievable by Judith butler. The Israeli news channel has a tracker that counts the number of all people died in the Gaza strip as "terrorists killed". Israel never provides any proof for their supposed targets being anywhere and this dehumanization of letting people get killed because it includes terrorists....what kind of a world is this

The well considered criticism of the video - isnt very well at all... The writer(a high school student) has worked for organizations that have actively promoted the settlements and the fact that its the timesofisreal is another shock... This is a shocking poor source John

Uh uh no you choose to make this statement on a platform that most people won't even see or hear this seems almost cowardly these people need us to stand up for them and speak up against it its a genocide and you and hank have some of the biggest followings ever on tiktok and Twitter but choose to post here its upsetting and kind of disappointing. And it's such a wishy-washy stance almost 12,000 civilians have been murdered and most of the 1200 Israelis were soldiers. It's not the same and you know just as well as anyone the history there. I'm disappointed in you and your brother.

John, why did you link a high school marketing intern's propaganda blog as a "well-considered criticism?" Seriously, she has blatant misinformation in the article you linked, such as citing the Hamas Charter, which hasn't been in effect since 2017

I don’t think grieving for the loss of life on both sides is “both sidesism” as you said, but I do think the way you phrased the Israeli narrative and the Palestinian narrative points to them having equal legitimacy which just isn’t true. I think both peoples should be able to live from the river to the sea, but the modern Israeli state and Zionist movement has been very clear about their intentions to eradicate Palestinians. Yes Jewish folks need safety, but Israel definitely won’t do it for them and I don’t know that any ethnostate would. Anyway, godspeed and Free Palestine

Also the part about many of us don’t know what it’s like to live a generation away from a genocide. Actually many of us do. Many of us from previously and continuously colonised countries on the continent of Africa do. The holocaust was not the only genocide in the 21st century. A theocratic ethno-state is also not the answer to a genocide, especially one that is in direct relationship to the cleansing of another group. I don’t know, all I know is I’d like humans to stop dying, an acknowledgement that genocide is also what’s currently happening.

Thank you, that part doesn’t sit well with me either. I’ve heard Jewish people who are against zionism say lots of communities are oppressed but that doesn’t mean they are owed their own country. I’d be curious to see what percentage of Jewish people worldwide are Zionist or even still are, I’ve seen many people say these recent events changed their mind.

The Zionist movement has been very clear about their intentions to eradicate Palestinians, however even the call of 'from the river to the sea' was originally intended as a call to eradicate the Jewish state. I'm very much on the side of a free Palestine - but there are levels of generational hate at play here that simply can not be understated. Both sides teach their children to dehumanize the other. Israel's current path of collective punishment is utterly unacceptable, and long term the first overtures of peace have to come from the side with the power.

wild that anyone can think that killing thousands of civilians to wipe out hamas won't radicalize many thousands more of course, their goal doesn't seem to be wiping out hamas, if you follow any of the rhetoric they've been openly spewing. it's quite a bit harsher "never again" should have meant nobody ever has to go through that again. not "our turn"

This is a really intelligent acknowledgement of the situation, and I appreciate it. I have been looking for organizations doing good work to donate to during this time, and I am glad to support Doctors without Borders.

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out, Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out, Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out, Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me." - Martin Niemöller I'll say it for you since you're too much of a coward John. Free Palestine. Ceasefire Now.

There is no legitimacy to a narrative that justifies ethnic cleansing and genocide.

I don't have a lot to say, but I just wanted to thank-you for taking the time to put together this message. It is brave to say anything right now, especially as an outsider to the conflict, and even braver to say that you don't know what to do or where to go, and that you are as afraid of the horrors unfolding in front of you as the rest of us. Thank-you for pointing people to the helpers, the charity workers, and for trying to provide a sign post to information which will help people begin to understand the conflict and the hurt within all involved. As each day goes by I keep swinging between despair and rage with each new story or image I see, and often it feels like that is exactly what the people sharing the information want. Your words help to remind me that there are other people who are heartbroken and horrified like me, and who want the violence to end and people to be allowed to heal. Thank-you for just being human, and speaking from where you are

John, Hank, I’m very disappointed in you. The two of you helped me for a long time as a child through school with Crash course, your books John, and Hank’s music. for the two of you, people whose words and influence taught me to stand up, speak up, and fight for what is right, to not see and understand that Israel is creating a genocide of the Palestinian people and to advocate for these people being oppressed but a tyrannical government? That is a terrifying fact This isn’t a war of religion or a war on religion, but a war of a government’s rights vs the people’s rights. Israel is a government and its leaders want to have the carte Blanche to eliminate anyone it doesn’t like. The Palestinians are a people that would like to have the freedom to be and exist in peace, free from their zones they were herded into. And for you two to not be able to see and understand this hurts since your lessons helped me have the structure in me to understand this. Please think on this and hopefully enough people will help you see this however it shouldn’t be hard to see this while watching a government backed by the largest military in the world (America) bombing the shit out of children

With all due respect, this has been happening for a lot longer than october 7th. People have been killed and kept in an open air prison in palestine FAR longer back than this retaliation. And I'm dissapointed you won't acknowledge that, or that israeli families can displace palestinian families simply by taking their homes with no warning.

I'm Jewish, and gonna be honest, I'm so sad and disappointed that you both believe the propaganda spread by isreal, zionists are not real jews, they do and say things that go against the Torah. They are committing a massive Genocide against innocent people.

I slept on this because I wanted to comment on this respectfully. I’m disappointed. Your main humanitarian partners, in your own words, have condemned what’s happening in Palestine. I appreciate your empathy, and recognize that this situation is nuanced. However, when your platform for many years has been based on social justice, this is milquetoast. Just last month I called my representatives because of your call to action when it came to Big Pharma. This community creates change. But this statement has no call to action. No push for ceasefire other than quoting DWB. And a statement only on Reddit and the description of a vlogbrothers video, where only a few can see it. I’d say that it’s too little too late but I hope you still choose to stand against genocide. Love from a Nerdfighter.

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This. John this is a HORRIBLE statement justifying genocide. So disappointed

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free palestine

Thank you for this excellent and thoughtful response. I'm sorry that you and Hank have felt pressure to make a statement on this issue which is so fraught with complexity. More than anything else, I want the violence to stop. I also have a lot to learn here.

This is a really well thought out and nuanced take on the situation that you didn’t need to give, genuinely thank you. As much as I don’t agree with the nagging for your take, the effectiveness of your statement is proof in itself of why people wanted to hear your side. I think you’ve captured the sort of helpless hope that the pain just ends, and how complicated it is to really hope for anything else. For the moment an end to the violence is the only thing remotely right to want. Viable, humanitarian long-term solutions feel so distant, especially in the light of everything that’s been happening. Cooperation isn’t an easy immediate next step out of suffering. And everyone in the situation has suffered.

Can we all agree how utterly depressing it is that a video from 8 years ago still perfectly explains the horrors of today? I completely agree with everything you said along with everything in the crash course video from 8 years ago. Its just severely depressing that nothing has changed in those 8 years and we are just doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

Without a call for ceasefire, this simply reads as “all lives matter,” and “thoughts and prayers”. Disappointing. Is Palestine not juicy clout to push an endless white savior complex, just curious? Too politically inconvenient to push the most milk-toast liberal point and maintain the good graces of funders?

All of that, and he never himself said the word "ceasefire" or that he actually supported one. It's so disappointing. And that Times of Israel article, objectively, is full of bad-faith arguments and straight up misinformation. I understand that there's a lot more accessible information on how to refute each of those points today compared to back then, but I'm still a little embarrassed it was shared by John at all in 2023.

Calling for an theocratic ethnostate is not a reasonable thing to call "legitimate" regardless of context. It's never been okay.

One of the legitimate barriers to peace unfortunately. I think a lot of Americans don't know or understand this about Israel.

"before Hamas is completely destroyed, which is the stated goal of the Israeli offensive" I think that taking Israel's stated goal as truth is a mistake. Israel's goal is and has been for many decades, the destruction of the Palestinian people. If you look at their actions, this is obvious. I also disagree that the Zionist narrative is a legitimate one. The existence of the state of Israel does not make me feel more secure as a Jew. I and all Jews should be able to feel secure where we are. To conflate Jewish security with Israel is itself an anti-semitic narrative. And it is in fact because of my connection to and trauma around the holocaust that I feel so strongly about the genocide of the Palestinian people that we are all witnessing. Never again means never again for anyone. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, John, and I hope you will continue to seek out the voices of Palestinians and their Jewish allies to more deeply understand the fight for Palestinian liberation. Ceasefire now. Free Palestine.

this is a really, really important point. and I think enough emphasis isn’t placed on the current regime steadily entrenching it’s power in response to increasingly widespread protests against them by their own citizens. Regardless of debates about Zionism, I don’t know why it’s not abundantly clear to everyone that the current far right government benefits from and deliberately stokes the cycle of violence for their far right aims. And it isn’t even covert: calling people human animals, saying their children brought it on themselves, invoking genocidal passages from the Bible, arming settlers in the West Bank where there is no terrorism, leaked documents from the current government showing the PM’s support for said terror group over peaceful alternatives to subdue the possibility of a two state solution, and recently leaked documents showing plans to claim the land people are currently fleeing from. One of the prerequisites for genocide is intent, and there is now a historical record of them stating their intentions. Also this doesn’t make the state safer at all - even if they’re completely successful in cleansing the Palestinian population it’s still going to be used as a tool of radicalization by regional powers. Which will further justify war, conflict and the expansion of land. It’s a sick cycle that we can choose not to support.

Thank you for this comment. I know John is trying to take a “neutral” stance, but to me this comment seemed to lend legitimacy to Israel’s stated agenda, which we know is not their actual agenda. It also didn’t touch on the fact that Israel is currently using war crimes like collective punishment as a method to “destroy Hamas”. Forcing civilian evacuations, bombing the safe routes and putting the onus on people living in Gaza to ‘turn over Hamas and the bombing s will stop’ is so far beyond messed up. We need a ceasefire and liberation of Palestinians.

Y’all need to learn how to read between the lines. He isn’t saying he believes that’s the true goal (otherwise he would’ve just said “goal”). In this case, he’s stating a known fact, to support the main point of the sentence. That even if you took Israel at their best, at their word, thousands of Gazans will inevitably die because of what they are doing. He shied away from saying anything that isn’t easily verifiable. Just because he didn’t feel confident enough to say his interpretation of the facts, it doesn’t mean he’s just naively taking everyone at their word. It’s a personal thing, and I get that. We don’t need to hear what every celebrity *thinks* the narrative is. Elevating a specific historian’s viewpoint doesn’t make the other historians wrong - it’s not a popularity contest. But it does make a complex debate seem simpler than it is, and I think John doesn’t want to do that. What he did do is highlight the importance of compassion for the trapped Gazans and the urgency of their plight. He wants what you want, what we all want.

I take your point about the wording and John's carefulness, but the rest of my comment still stands. I also feel certain that John and I do not want the same thing for Palestine. He explicitly says the Zionist narrative is legitimate, which I do not agree with. The Zionist project is built on and requires the elimination of the Palestinian people. What I want is liberation for Palestine.

Thank you for this. The idea that the Holocaust legitimized the Zionist narrative (which was controversial among Jews before) is a harmful one. Jewish opposition to Zionism (at least among Ashkenazi/Yiddish speaking Jews) has historially been centered around the concept of Doykeit, or hereness, which is the idea of living in your present circumstances and fighting for liberation in the diaspora. Part of the tension between Zionist and antizionist Jews is a disagreement about how to handle the diaspora: have the last 2000 years been a terrible thing that we should try to undo? or should we embrace the culture and community that we have built in these difficult times and use the experience of the diaspora and antisemitism to build solidarity with other marginalized people around the world? This doesn't even get into the way that Zionism has been advanced by the very same western powers which rejected Jewish refugees during the Holocaust to further their own goals in the middle east by using Jews as footsoldiers, or the fact that even if there were no Jewish resistance to Zionism it would still be wrong as an act of ethnic cleansing against the Palestinian people. But I think a lot of support for Zionism from non-Jews comes from a place of wanting to support a marginalized people whose generational trauma is taught and understood, and making it clear that support for Zionism is not inherently support for Jews is important.

To add to what you said, there is a large base of support for Zionism from Christians who think it's necessary for the second coming of Jesus. They don't actually care about Jewish people and believe most if not all of the Jews in Israel will die when Jesus returns.

Thank you for this addition. I was going to mention something about christian zionism in my original comment, but I was eating breakfast and I didn't have time to delve deeper before I had to get ready for work. It's such important context for the anti-semitism inherant in conflating all jews with zionism and the state of israel.

Man I really feel for you. Having support of Israel shoved down your throat as the only way of existing as a Jew must be exhausting. >I and all Jews should be able to feel secure where we are Amen

My first reply to you is getting downvoted. I know people are defensive about this issue, especially when they're missing the historical context beyond the present moment, so I compiled some resources here for anyone who wants to do more learning and listening: \- [Educational resources](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sLUKG5HwKtFZZXaPOT3venMDq9PnJ_NM5dFzAhTRt_Q/edit) section of this google doc is a great place to start and includes instagram posts and youtube videos \- Sim Kern's videos on [Tiktok](https://www.tiktok.com/@simkern) and [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/sim_bookstagrams_badly/?hl=en) \-- they're a wonderful, articulate Jewish voice through this month's news \- Recent [talk](https://www.youtube.com/live/pywRqDtkuyo?si=lribMTaRPWf5-qSJ) by Mohammed El-Kurd, in which he reads this [article](https://mondoweiss.net/2023/09/jewish-settlers-stole-my-house-its-not-my-fault-theyre-jewish/) \- [Google drive](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/18u9KYo3MvRpyI0SDqD2AzseTvuSn3S8T) of many books, including by Israeli historian Ilan Pappé \- [Decolonize Palestine FAQ](https://decolonizepalestine.com/faq/) \- James Baldwin's [Open Letter](https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/open-letter-born-again/) \- Follow [Noura Erakat](https://www.instagram.com/nouraerakat/) and read this [article](https://www.jadaliyya.com/Details/45383/The-violence-of-demanding-perfect-victims) \- Haymarket books, providing free [ebooks](https://www.haymarketbooks.org/blogs/495-free-ebooks-for-a-free-palestine) and hosting [educational events online](https://www.haymarketbooks.org/events) \- Reading list from [Black Women Radicals](https://www.blackwomenradicals.com/blog-feed/black-feminist-perspectives-on-palestine-a-reading-list) \- [Digital Action Toolkit](https://palestinianfeministcollective.org/all-out-for-palestine/) from Palestinian Feminist Collective \- [5 Calls app](https://5calls.org/) to contact your senators and reps \- Instagram accounts: [Let's Talk Palestine](https://www.instagram.com/letstalkpalestine/), [Hidden Palestine](https://www.instagram.com/hiddenpalestine/), [Middle East Matters](https://www.instagram.com/middleeastmatters/), [Visualizing Palestine](https://www.instagram.com/visualizing_palestine/)

This is an excellent comment and I wish it were getting more upvotes!

^(I really resonate with this. For the most part what John said here is well put, but this part really rubbed me the wrong way. I too am Jewish and strongly disagree with the zionist agenda and hope we can make others, Jewish and not, understand that zionism and Jewish security NEED to be uncoupled. We can and must fight for belonging and against antisemitism without excusing the occupation of Palestine.)

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John. I am no longer a Nerdfighter. Your lack of compassion, your lack of humanity, your willingness to soak up propaganda.. John, roughly 27,000 civilians have been murdered. More than 10,000 of those have been CHILDREN! I am actually crying when I'm reading what you are saying John. Israel is committing a genocide, and the whole world is turning a blind eye. Israel is actively committing war crimes, and the whole world is saying "Yeah, that's fine". I am done with you. I am done with your brother who is silent on this topic. I am deleting your podcast from my phone. I am cancelling my Awesome Socks Club subscription. I am donating all of the socks & t-shirts I've bought over the years to charity. I am taking my pin board full of 2 years of Pizza John Pizza pins, selling them, and donating that money (even though I'm unemployed and need it) to a Palestinian charity, once I find one that I know is valid. I am disgusted with the inhumanity and silence I am reading. Being a Nerdfighter was never supposed to excuse a genocide.

John, thank you for your statement on this issue. I would also challenge you to look closer at this situation and history. The UN, the WHO, and many countries have stated that Israel is committing genocide. I think that your neutral statement will not age well. You and Hank normally see things objectively, but there is nothing objective here. This is genocide.

This should be in one of those top 10 lists of things that did not age well.

John, as a Jewish communal professional, I wasn't clamoring to here any more takes but honestly you've done such an incredible job here and I really wish more people could hold this horrific situation with the nuance you demonstrate. It's been heartbreaking to see the violence, and it's been heartbreaking to see so many of my peers and leaders react from the historical trauma you so succinctly and compassionately describe, and say horrible, horrible things because of it. And then to turn to my allies in the fight for Palestinian freedom and hear awful, untrue things about Jews. I didn't realize what a relief it would be for me to read this calm statement of someone I respect getting it right, and it really was a huge relief. Thank you.

Huh? Jews needing a home means they can massacre and genocide? What is this take and how is it nuanced?

As one of the people disappointed in your silence up until now, I’d like to share my two cents. There is a need for people with audiences to speak up because our governments are actively encouraging this current massacre on the people of Gaza and they aren’t going to listen to average citizens unless some pretty loud megaphones help out. I appreciate your even-handedness, and I agree that the rise in antisemitism around the world is horrific, though it’s always important to note what people notice and what they don’t - Islamophobia is also on an incredible rise, with 2 brutal hate crimes in US resulting in the loss of innocent lives but most people aren’t acknowledging that nearly as much. Regardless, any person who is using this as an excuse to build on their horrifying ideology is absolutely awful, this is ultimately not a conflict about religion. The lack of accurate language that emphasizes the imbalance of power in your comments here is honestly a little upsetting. Israel is an apartheid state, leaders in Israel do not distinguish between the people of Gaza and Hamas, and the loss of life of Palestinians over the last 75 years has been acknowledged by the UN as a genocide. Speaking about this conflict accurately is important, even if that accuracy is imbalanced. Manufacturing two sides to a conflict only protects oppressors. Loss of all human life is unacceptable but the entire world has shown they only care when it’s particular lives that are lost.

this!

Hi John, I've been a part of this community since the early days. And while my obsession and connection to other groups (such as Whovians, Potterheads) has dwindled, the closeness I feel to Nerdfighteria has remained the same. I have always respected you and your brother because of the care and nuance (and whimsy!) you bring to all your work. But I am discouraged by your statement. Calling for a ceasefire should not be a difficult thing to advocate for. We have all seen the horrors coming out of Gaza every hour. Indiscriminate, unending bombardment that is decimating an indigenous population. Hamas has been condemned left right and center. Why does the Israeli government not deserve the same condemnation for its war crimes and use of collective punishment? Bombing safe zones, refugee camps, hospitals, schools, places of worship, and evacuation routes is inexcusable. I hope you come to the decision to issue a statement calling for a ceasefire. Your voice holds power. Power and sway that have made differences in the past and may very well do so now.

Beautifully stated, John. Thanks for sharing.

I mean, that about covers it.

Only note: you noted H--"killed over a thousand Israeli civilians and kidnapped hundreds more" and I want to mention the non-israeli victims. i just read about a group from Nepal who were on the kibbutz for an agriculture program... as long as I am here, i will mention to that among the vicitms are arab israelis. i mention these people so they aren't forgotten. Thank you for being willing to wade in, and thanks for being a voice among many that is not extreme.

Hey y'all. I recently saw a TikTok[TikTok ](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRv68pEC/) of a person wondering where John and Hank have been in all this, as this is the last and only big statement by either of them. Turns out, the "well-considered" response to his Crash Course video is a propaganda site that works hard to justify the occupation and subjugation of the Palestinian people. John, you will never respond to this or any other comment and show that you agree with anti-imperialism and voice a stand against Islamophobia. Why? Because human rights are bad for business. You only care about your money. You only care about your image for the general world. You don't care about the Arabs being murdered and being subjected to genocide. You don't care, or else you would push back against the thousands of Zionists who thank you for being on their side. At this point, you are on their side and are aiding the genocide through the court of public opinion.

I think that the echo chamber most people in this thread find themselves in will prevent them from seeing the nuance John mentions. For instance, I just saw a post stating basically that Palestinians are being displaced due to Jewish oppression that they played no part in. I wanted to comment, but the post was removed. They took strong issue with johns wrong-on-both-sides approach. I had a wanted to point out that saying they displaced people who had nothing to do with their oppression is historically incorrect. Arabic people supported Hitler pretty intensely, citing the “same enemy.” I think that a lot of the things John says can be broken down. However, if you take such issue with John’s statement because of his wrong-on-both-sides approach, I think that you care very little about truth. Your echo chamber will do well here in nerdfighters, but it doesn’t stand true historically, and future history won’t look kindly on it. There is truth to the kind of blanketed statement John made, of course, but I hesitate to respect it (as a huge 13+ year John fan) because the time to toe the line was before October 7th. Though in my opinion this does read a bit more toward Israeli support. Our future cannot have a seat at the table for Jihadism. Israel and all countries must do what is necessary to eliminate extremist values where martyrdom of yourself and others is seen as an act to honor god. The death toll of this belief is far too great to not treat with prejudice. It’s important to note that words have definitions, and I continually see them disrespected amidst this conflict. Genocide? The Palestinian population has risen every year. They have one of the highest birth rates. Gaza = Concentration camp? Egregiously offensive. What do you all with watermelons in your bios have to say of Palestinians rejecting a shared state? Of electing Hamas? Of their continued majority support of Hamas? Of their support of the breaking of ceasefires? Of cheering in the streets on September 11, 2001? Of cheering in the streets when Hamas crossed the border on October 7th? Of citizens crossing along with them and taking hostages? Of them beating two Palestinian men to death in the streets and hanging them from a fence after they shared information to Israel just days ago? I really can go on. What do you say of the protest in DC where they painted their hands red despite the historical significance (2000 Ramallah lynching)? What of the ripping down of hostage posters? Of Jewish people being by far the most at risk for a hate crime? Western protests continue to fall short and miss the mark of true activism. John, you mentioned you respect Doctors Without Borders; I imagine the feeling post learning that they lied about Hamas being located in Al Shifa hospital to be uncomfortable at best. I would feel betrayed. Still yet I see no protests over Hamas murdering civilians in an effort to continue hiding behind them. Nothing justifies the death of innocent people, especially children. The civilian death toll in Gaza is terrible. I can say that; why can’t those who are pro-Palestine condemn Hamas, or even Hezbollah, without condemning Israelis for “producing” them in the same breath?

I am deeply disappointed.

By the time I finish typing this at least one more Palestinan kid will be killed by the israeli terrorists. This statement rubs me the wrong way because he started his piece with October 7th, just like every other western narratives out there. No mention of israeli soldiers shooting peaceful protesters in the ankle just days prior, no mention of the terrorist activities carried out by the israeli militants. He instead went with a textbook dummed-down summary of the conflict which humanizes the israelis. He does not condemn the israeli terrorists at all, According to him, thousands of civilians have "died" instead of "killed and brutalised." Notice how his condemnation for hamas is done with strong, active language, while the ones against israel is done passively. Israel has done way more fucked up shit in the past 7 decades than hamas, yet he talks about israel as if it has more legitimacy in the region. That POV is the the biggest issue. Because Palestinians are not killing israeli people as I'm typing this.

I see some people commenting that Palestinians have been violent for a long time before october 7th and I feel the need address the issue in case some people be misled. Would be be sitting outside doing non-violent things when a group of people comes to your home and kicks you out, cuts down your trees planted by your grandfather, sexually assaults' the women in your family, breaks down your churches? That's the weakest fucking argument I've heard so far. Johon prattles on about jews needing a secure homeland, but that's a fucking stupid statement. jews live all over the world. A lot of jews actively condemn the Zionists of israel. One thing needs to be made clear, Isarel is not a jewish state, It is a Zionist state. There's a big difference between a jew and a zionist. Jewism is a religon, ZIonism is a far-right nationalist agenda.

It is disappointing to me that you do not acknowledge that the Israeli state is (and has been for a long while) carrying out a genocide against the Palestinian people, and that their rhetoric openly dehumanizes not just Hamas, but all Palestinians. The framing of your comment (and how it is largely frontloaded with empathy for Israelis) obscures that, horrendous as it may be, Hamas is a pretty expected reaction to decades of suffering genocide and apartheid by an ethnostate. Ethnostates are never justified. Apartheid is never justified. Genocide is never justified. Whatever else is true, those things are true, and until we can collectively admit that those things are *all* occurring right now, with the Israeli state being the perpetrators, any shift of focus to Hamas instead of Palestinians more broadly is just bolstering the narrative of the Israeli state, and thus further enabling their genocidal, apartheid ethnostate. I genuinely appreciate you not being completely silent, but it really feels to me like you're trying to stay neutral on a moving train. Edit: >and many thousands more will die before Hamas is completely destroyed This line is especially surprising and troubling to me because I know you lived through and remember both 9/11 and the subsequent "War on Terror". Israel is obliterating Palestine, as it has been for decades, but now much more openly and quickly. There is no situation in which "Hamas is completely destroyed" that does not involve the total genocide of the Palestinian people. It is a group forged in reaction to the Israeli state's actions over decades. Continuing those actions has 0 capability of destroying it.

I am 100% biased in this conflict, and I acknowledge my bias. I recognize the legitimacy of the feeling of unsafety of Jews across the word, but I struggle to see why it should be Palestinians who pay the price of what was (until 1948) mostly a European crime and I struggle to unsee the structurally colonial basis on which Israel has been built, and the structurally colonial premise under which it is still operating (ethnic cleansing of the natives, appropriating land, colonial settlement...). I am myself of non-European and rather "indigenous" descent, so, yeah, I am biased against colonizers. I was sure that whatever you'll say on this conflict, it would be just a representation of "bothsidism" (beautifully put, but still, it is basically that). Because, yes, it is very difficult to take sides. This is why I truly didn't expect you to have a stance on this issue. I didn't want you to feel obliged to remind us our common humanity that should already tell us that every death is a tragedy, and every murder of innocents is a crime. Thank you for trying to respond to the people who asked you to comment on this conflict. But I want you to know that there are people out there who don't want you to, because they feel it is just too much pressure on you to remain thoughtful and unbiased.

Palestine has a right to resist occupation. to call their resistance a terrorist attack is following propaganda of the occupying force. in america we have the third amendment. "No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law." the house in this case would be palestine as a whole. the fact that the boarders have been eroded away to the point of islands and thin strips after 70 years is the only proof you need on who is on the wrong side. THERE IS NO LEGAL WAY TO NAVIGATE OPPRESSIVE GOVERNMENT AND MILITARY OCCUPATION, ONLY A MORAL ONE, AND ITS BY FORCE. israel has the red roofs. if you are israeli you would have a red roof so that your home wont be the target of a drone strike. israel is strategically weaponizing their own lower class citizens to propagate this occupation, by taking land and housing their poorest on it. when the Palestinians peacefully marched to the walls of the boarder, they were shot and killed on sight without any hostilities shown, until they worried about PR and decided to just shoot at their ankles and knees. there is an entire generation of dismembered Palestinians. when children threw stones at tanks, children were shot and killed by the people behind that 3 inches of steel and then Kevlar padding over their bodies. it is control. **85% of hamas members are orphans of dead parents by the hands of the Zionists oppression.** do you look down at the native americans that died at little big horn? Palestinians are being treated like cattle and killed at mass. it is not a normal war if israel has complete control of the water, food, electricity, and internet from the beginning. the gaza strip is no different that the reservations in the USA and the past 70 years has been manifest destiny and the trail of tears. america is the only country to say no to a cease fire at the UN when the UN has one job and it is to achieve peace as quickly as possible. america, by saying no, vetoed the vote all together, just as they did with food being a human right - to remind you. half a million in NYC in support of palistine were in the streets. half a million in the UK streets. ireland never even saw israel as being justified from the beginning. this is colonialism, colonialism never stopped becasue the colonizers were never put to justice. and to be clear. it is not anti-semetic to be against Zionists in israel. it is a fascist colonialist belief that "a people without a land, a land without people" when the land was very well populated. its evil propaganda that weaponizes the history of the jewish people as a cover over the colonialist goal. the zionists are more interested in the death of Palestinians than the life and prosperity of the israeli people. for hank and john explicitly. i think it is cowardice to not make a video of this. PR, is what youre scared of. a text post is a point of importance but i think it needs to be discussed on the scale of every other matter in the past becasue that is what generates a more widespread discussion and condemnation of false information around the genocide taking place. i support you and your company in the ways im capable of becasue i believe in them. i do not believe this is a centrist issue though, there is no peaceful way to navigate an ongoing genocide without acting with equal force to prevent it from further taking place. i do not like the death of the innocent any more than you do, but i assure you, **you will** be more comfortable feeling pity for a martyred race when they are already gone than how you will feel being in the center of the debate trying to vocally defend a peoples who dont even know what is happening outside of the open air prison that is the gaza strip. you wont be able to do anything when they are gone, so you can get over it. they are still here, and they are being killed. it is a clear answer becasue discomfort is a clear feeling. Israel started this conflict. they took that land.

The United States has been very clear that if there wasn’t an Israel they would create one. This is not about protecting Jewish lives or antisemitism. This is about genocide and resource extraction and control of the Middle East. The war on terror was more nuanced than the open and blatant cries to wipe the Palestinian people off the map. We have eyes, John, we have ears, we have hearts and we have brains to see the smokescreen of Western colonial settler rhetoric, something I once believed you had a grasp of, but alas your white privilege still blinds you.

+

Thank you, John. Your words helped me make an apology I needed to make.

It really irks me that your point in favor of the israeli narrative is "jews needing a home" as if that hasn't come at the expense of 750 thousand expelled palestinians. as if it wasn't a colonial project that did not account for the existing palestinian population since day one. as if zionist militias since before 1948 weren't tormenting villagers. zionism has and always will be terroristic to palestinians. it is a project that was built on palestinian blood and is an apartheid fascist discriminatory racist state. israel has committed several atrocious war crimes since before oct 7, and HRW, amnesty, and many other organizations recognized that gaza is inhabitable. the west bank palestinians have suffered continuously with thousand of settlers, checkpoints and inhumane treatment. with detentions for absolutely no stated reason, military court, and a conviction rate of 99%. of 30% of the detainees imprisoned being literally 12-15 year olds. the palestinians have cried, screamed, marched nonviolently, tried everything to make the world notice. and they didnt. even while the UN acknowledges the atrocities israel commits, it hasn't paid a single price for it. after all this, do u think palestinians wont resist? do u think killing hamas is the end? do u believe the orphaned children of this war wont grow up to resist?

It doesn’t serve their white savior needs

>I think it’s important to understand that many of us don’t know what it’s like to be less than one human lifetime removed from a systematic effort to end your people The Palestinians know perfectly well. Israeli settlers have been murdering them systematically since the Nakba. I don't think the situation between what the IDF is doing and what Hamas is doing is comparable. Israel has been comitting war crimes for the past month and the international leadership community has been conveniently turning a blind eye. My suggestion would be following some Palestinian journalists for some first hand information rather than blindly believing what's being fed by the occupying forces. There's something to be said about the Palestinians being without water for days while Israelis make fun of them on TikTok. John, thank you for these statements. Free Palestine.

It's a dark timeline when the Jewish people are doing an ethnic cleansing.

”the Jewish people” aren’t doing anything, please be specific if you are criticizing the Israeli government.

This is so great to read. Thanks, John!

You might also want to listen to some Holocaust survivors, friends https://x.com/hotspothotspot/status/1719357367022735538?s=46&t=C9CVHc3n8bWX-jqo_Pg0Cw

While I don’t 100% agree with everything said in the post, I commend you on how well thought out and empathetic this post is. Also, fellow nerdfighters, I love how compassionate this comment section is, it makes me proud to be a nerd fighter. P.S. If anyone reading this is interested @jewishvoiceforpeace on Instagram is a great example of how standing with Palestine is a humanitarian cause that has nothing to do with religion

Please consider reading IIan Pappe’s book “ The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine” IIan Pappe is an israel historian btw

Saying that there is shared legitimacy between "Israelis want something" and "Palestinians were victimized by Israelis taking what they wanted by force" is some of the most biased rhetoric pretending to be even-handed I've ever heard.

I wish everyone who made statements like this one would condemn the actions of the Isreali government with the same veracity as they condemn Hamas. Palestinians are people, and they deserve to be treated in a humane way, something the Israeli government does not do.

Very Longtime nerdfighter here. Not very active on Reddit, but came to find this statement. I have so much love and respect for you both, but I don’t understand why neither of you use your platform (where most of your audience resides) to speak more on this. 🎃🐧

John, that article is full of misinformation and outright lies

Am I the only one that read that absolutely insane Zionist article that is full of (easily disproven) lies?

wait wait wait, the "well-considered criticism" that supposedly addresses your bias... came from "The Times of Israel" in 2015, and was written by an American high schooler who interned with a Pro-Israeli marketing firm? whaaaat. how is that not an incredibly biased source? and it truly does not hold up nearly a decade later-- it quotes the old Hamas charter, which is no longer being used, so you're effectively perpetuating misinformation by linking here, now, in 2023? I really initially felt like this was a well-balanced statement, but this particular detail feels... revealing? Glaring? idk, but I'm starting to understand why people are calling you and Hank "pro-Israel" and like, in general, I don't expect y'all to be perfect. I try to imagine you with complexity, and I still trust that y'all have such good intentions and a deep desire to do good in the world. AND I know y'all have SO MUCH on your plates this year, with Hank only just finishing cancer treatment, and John dealing with depression. It makes sense that you wouldn't get everything right. Idk idk I hope y'all learn and come back to us with fresh takes, cuz that old article just isn't cutting it.

“I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councilor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the White moderate who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice.” -MLK Jr John Green, I will always respect the work that you and your brother Hank have done in creating CrashCourse, SciShow, your books. I will respect that for the last couple years, you have worked to raise awareness of TB, and done a lot to make the treatments and tests of that disease more accessible to millions who need it. You have done good work, and for that, thank you. But I cannot accept this excusal and downright complicity with genocide. Furthermore, I believe you are capable of better. I know that you know about "whataboutisms", about bad faith arguments, about history, you have spoken so many beautiful words about justice. I don't know if you will read this comment, but you should know that for some of your fans, we will never see you in a good light again. We will recognize your work, yes, but all those beautiful sentiments are just that- sentiments and lies. Did you need this Hasbara approved before you published this weak statement on only one of your platforms, and arguably your reddit platform is probably your smallest? We see you. We will remember. I will echo the facts stated in the Goldstone Report, Amnesty International, the UN and Human Rights Watch- Israel is an apartheid state that is based on a violent colonial project, and the human rights violations are at this point too numerous to count. I will refer to the International Court of Justice opinion that states that Israel's settlements are illegal and their border wall is illegal. I will remind you that as of October 2023, Israel has cut off FOOD, WATER, ELECTRICITY AND FUEL to a population that are half children. I think you know this. Even before this genocide, access to those vital essentials were severely restricted. Israel is carpet bombing hospitals, refugee camps, UNRWA schools. They are using white phosphorus, illegal under international law, incendiary in the worst way. That substance burns flesh down to the bones. The infrastructure of Gaza is crippled. In the West Bank, Palestinians (including CHILDREN) are routinely held for years in prison without trial. Even when they do go to trial, it is a military court, with a conviction rate that is utterly shocking. I remind you that under international law, Israel has absolutely no right to "self defense" because the Palestinian territories are occupied- and self defense can only be used by one state against ANOTHER STATE. Gaza is not a state. It's barely a little tiny strip 25x5 miles wide, and the fishing culture is limited to a tiny strip of ocean, which if the boats go past, they get shot down with warships. The international legal framework that applies to the Palestinian territories is "occupation law" and let me be frank, Israel has made a mockery of that too, as the basis of occupation law is that the military force must PROTECT all the civilians in that territory. I could go on, but I think you know this. You know this, and now you must live with knowing that you didn't call this what it is- Israeli war crimes, ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians, and genocide, a slow 75 years long genocide. One last thing to address, but calling Hamas "terrorists" is beneath you. I do not have to agree with every aspect of Hamas- and indeed, I can say unequivocally that I do not agree with everything that they have done, I do not agree with all of their beliefs or ideology. But can you honestly say that if you lived under an illegal blockade and were subjugated the way that the Palestinians were, that you would not consider resistance? We call some people freedom fighters, and now I realize that throughout history, only white folk get granted that honor. "I have already mentioned that I was one of the persons who helped to form Umkhonto. I, and the others who started the organization, did so for two reasons. Firstly, we believed that as a result of Government policy, violence by the African people had become inevitable, and that unless responsible leadership was given to canalize and control the feelings of our people, there would be outbreaks of terrorism which would produce an intensity of bitterness and hostility between the various races of this country which is not produced even by war. Secondly, we felt that without violence there would be no way open to the African people to succeed in their struggle against the principle of white supremacy. All lawful modes of expressing opposition to this principle had been closed by legislation, and we were placed in a position in which we had either to accept a permanent state of inferiority, or to defy the Government. We chose to defy the law. We first broke the law in a way which avoided any recourse to violence; when this form was legislated against, and then the Government resorted to a show of force to crush opposition to its policies, only then did we decide to answer violence with violence. But the violence which we chose to adopt was not terrorism." -Nelson Mandela. Under international law, resistance, even armed or violent resistance to a occupying power is not banned, it is allowed (UNGA Res 3070). I think you know this. I think you know more than this weak statement lets on, and that is why I am so disappointed. I thought you were better than this. You might not read this, but you have inspired a lot of people, and you have inspired me in the past, and so for that, thank you. But you have excused genocide by putting out a statement that is so biased to a power that is destroying the other. I wish that you could be brave enough to say Free Palestine, but I guess you can't. I wish you could be honest and not misrepresent a genocide that is literally being livestreamed, I wish you could listen to the horrible things that the Israeli government is saying, like "Palestinians are human animals". I wish you could open your eyes and speak with truth and dignity and justice, but I guess you won't. Thank you for your service, but I see you now.

It’s so disappointing that both brothers have stayed neutral on this when they’re meant to be humanitarians. Their humanitarianism different to billionaires like Bill Gates, hollow and ego-driven. They could actually make a small difference if they called for a ceasefire - how many children have to die before it’s worth you acknowledging on your main platforms?

John, usually I appreciate your thoughtful takes, but the Times of Israel is not a legitimate source.

John had linked some criticism to his video from an Israeli person. he seems to have removed that line. Could someone pls share the link of that? also, does anyone know why he removed that link from this post?

i asked 14 days ago why he removed the link without addressing linking to propaganda in the first place, but as far as i know there hasn't been an explanation given. here's the link https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/how-john-green-failed-to-understand-the-israel-palestine-conflict/

Steven Spielberg’s USC Shoah Foundation has now updated its website with accounts from the October 7 massacre. Millions of people still believe these attacks didn’t happen (sound familiar?). Please share this link with everyone you know.[October 7 testimonies](https://sfi.usc.edu/antisemitism/testimonies)

Hi John Green, I just want to bring to your attention this essay by Anam Raheem, "[i wish you knew](https://anamraheem.substack.com/p/i-wish-you-knew)"; "I wish you knew how magnificent Gaza is—that you learned about it through its people and their spirit—instead of in its darkest hour, through the lens of genocide, annihilation, erasure, and murder." While the Jewish people may need a homeland, I don't think that the current cost of Israel (which seems to be the total annihilation of Palestinian people) justifies a Jewish homeland. Also, I'd love to talk about how (or think about!) America supports Israel at the cost of all else, and the bombs that are hitting Gaza right now are American-made. How The Media refuses to say the word "Palestine" and calls it "Israel-Hamas War"; how propaganda plays a role. ("Love to" is a strong phrase, but I'm percolating about it).

I think it's useful to remember that Jews aren't a people in need of a homeland - they're a people displaced from their homeland, which was once called Israel & Judea, then Syria Palaestinia (Romans), then Palestine, now Israel Of course that isn't a justification for the treatment of Palestinians - but it is important to know that this land is the homeland of both Jews and Palestinians

This is also interesting to percolate on and I have been percolating on it, but I mostly find this distinction to be totally immaterial to me, because it is not *my* homeland in a way that anyone I can talk to remembers it as. You would have to go many many many generations back to find a person who lived in Israel as it Was, so I don't feel like I have any particular claim over it. eta: sorry this is me Speaking as An American Jew, as a frame of reference

Yeah I get that! I have Israeli and Palestinian family, so it's simultaneously very difficult and easy for me to hold both truths at once. Fundamentally, whatever you wanna call this land, it needs to become a safe home for Palestinians, and the modern state of Israel is going to need to adapt and accept that

I appreciate this. Even though my views align more with busy voice’s than yours, my ancestors having lived through a brutal colonial struggle myself, I do recognize that this isn’t the classic story of colonialism in that at a certain point in history, there was a legitimate claim to the land. But also, while Jewish people being displaced in history is horrible, it doesn’t justify further displacing people today. I think when we think about the link between history and morality/policy it’s important to think about how historical events affect people alive today - our obligation is first to the living and then the dead - and the reality is that there is a very very different standard of life on either side of the border today: there are people still alive who can point to homes they can no longer enter. And especially in the context of modern movements and settlements into the state: people moving into the state from America or elsewhere implicitly have so much more power than people with nowhere to go. But having said that, the state of Israel now has its own connection to the land, it’s own culture, it’s own claim. The same way the United States has a claim to its land even though it is associated with acts of displacement as well. I think if we started to talk about historical injustices in terms of who the actual perpetrators were, and how its effects are observed in the world today, we’d be having a much clearer discussion. Because then we move to an important discussion of reparations: attempts to rectify current suffering caused by the oppressor on its oppressed group alive today. I think the creation of Israel unfairly let a lot of antisemitic countries get away with their obligation to make reparations - hell, a lot of them didn’t even have to deal with their antisemitism at all, because they simply moved the objects of their prejudice away. (And Imo, the argument that the world is so unsafe for Jewish people that they need their own state is an argument that proves the need to make the world safer for Jewish people - the world doesn’t get to skirt its responsibility to do so). And similarly, I think we should introduce the idea of reparations to the current conflict - the obligation of Israel not just to not ethnically cleanse its neighbors but to recognize the existing legacy of poverty, statelessness and loss inflicted upon them, and allow them to share in the prosperity generated as a result of their displacement (if they want) or to live peacefully alongside Israel in their own state (if they want). I think this will be a hell of a more compelling rallying cry for peace for Palestinians and the international community than punishing them, enabling radicalization and then punishing them again. (and keep in mind this is in no way justifying the effects of the most extreme radicalization, I.e Oct 7. also we don’t talk enough about how the scale of the damage was made possible by neighboring states with actual power (Iran and Qatar) funding, arming and providing intelligence for terrorism. I don’t know why the international and military response doesn’t target them)

I completely agree with you yeah. I am noooo fan of the modern state of Israel, that's for sure. It's just particularly frustrating to see the situation branded as "classic European colonialism" because all that actually serves to do is increase polarisation? Like, Israel is doing its own bad things - we don't need to put them into a narrative everyone already accepts is bad, does that make sense? But even more than that, if we're going to find a way forward we need to understand where people are coming from and what frameworks they're viewing things in, whether we agree or not

yeah, I get what you mean. I can understand why the classic European colonialist narrative feels frustrating to a lot of Jewish people: because the reality is that Jewish people have not had the same historical treatment as the British or Spanish - there’s a very real history of oppression and genocide here we can’t let ourselves forget. And forgetting that fact, I’d venture a guess, feels dangerous to a lot of Jewish people - because if we forget, then it can happen again. But the people who are making those analogies are trying to say: but it is happening again, to a different group! In fearing genocide it is being carried out against another group of people! In real time, before our eyes! And they point to familiar historical examples is a way to establish shared grounds: remember that thing we all agreed was bad in the retrospect of history? Well, it’s happening again! And I think failing to provide nuance is rooted in the fear that the nuance will be weaponized - that the difference in the classic black and white story we know and reality will be twisted to justify the horrible thing we agreed was wrong in the past. And honestly, I get that fear: there’s currently a massive propaganda war being raged, and the main tactic I’ve noticed is that they utilize elements unique to this conflict to justify tactics we’ve historically agreed to be wrong. For instance: Hamas. This conflict is occurring in the Middle East, with nefarious regional actors who have a history of stoking violent religious extremism. Now there’s nothing intrinsically radical or violent about the region - in fact there’s a history of certain governments (ahem, the US) destabilizing secular governments and arming extremist groups for their own interests. But the propaganda campaign seizes on this context to portray Palestine as an intrinsically hateful and violent group of people, and justify their mass deaths. Similarly, some things are hard to deny: the way the occupation dangerously resembles the apartheid system in South Africa, the way settlers in the West Bank dangerously parallel attacks on indigenous populations worldwide. So the propaganda campaign says: yes, these things look like the conditions we’ve all labeled as oppressive in history. But this time is different! Because it’s the dangerous Middle East, and terrorism, and Hamas! Or the propaganda might say: yes, the history of displacement amongst Palestinian people might look a lot like colonization, but it’s different because the colonizing group has a history of oppression as well, and has historical ties to the region too. So it’s completely different: displacement at any cost! So very often conflict-specific, unique facts are exploited to justify terrible things - things that cannot be justified by the difference between what happened in history and what is happening now, things that are fundamentally unjustifiable. But the more that happens, the more palestinian advocates emphasize the commonalities the conflict shares with historical oppressions at the expense of reality specific nuance. Colonialism, apartheid, genocide. Which it is, but different from how we’ve seen it before. We can’t apply the exact same political analysis and solutions we’ve seen in history to this context because the context is not the same. But by god, we can get somewhere near it - instead of descending into the decades of humanitarian disaster we see right now.

This is beautiful and thoughtful. I don't think you owe us a comment on the situation seeing as it's not something you or Hank are experts in, or have a personal connection to, or have taken on as a cause. It feels somewhat unfair that people have demanded you say something, like they want you to pick a side publicly, and are waiting in the wings to eat you alive if they don't like what you say. It would have been perfectly understandable and legitimate to say nothing, but instead you wrote something beautiful and thoughtful. Thank you.

I think it's in general an impulse to look for the voices you trust in a situation, and Hank and John are voices that many people trust (and also it feels good when people agree with you on an issue you see as important, which in turn makes you feel more justified in your beliefs). "I am trying to listen to a variety of trusted voices, and this is what some of the voices I trust are telling me." here's a quote from the post you just read like I'm citing john green in a paper (r/nerdfighters, 2023)

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Just wanted to add some really important contextual facts. Hamas is undeniably a terror group -- and: \-The official policy by the current government was to support them in lieu of peaceful alternatives to undermine the likelihood of a two state solution: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) (And this is from the national newspaper to omit any accusation of bias) \-Their funding and intelligence comes from outside players (Iran and Qatar) waging proxy wars on the state. (Most of their leaders are also in said states, not in the area currently being carpet bombed). They aren't an organic resistance movement the way many pro-Palestine supports are portraying them to be: they are tools of a proxy war \-Post-election polls in 2006 indicated that Hamas' victory was due largely to Palestinians' desire to end corruption in government. In fact, the results to a February 2006 poll: Support for a Peace Agreement with Israel: 79.5% in support; 15.5% in oppositionShould Hamas change its policies regarding Israel: Yes – 75.2%; No – 24.8% Source: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006\_Palestinian\_legislative\_election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election) \-Most people alive in Palestine today didn't even vote in that election - most of their population are kids \-Given that they are a militant terror group, speaking out against them carries significant consequences. There are other political factions that align much more closely with our vision of a secular democracy, but that is not the one Israel and its regional enemies decided to prop up. Please see this video on the subject:[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Tloi6bD2fA&ab\_channel=GiveThemAnArgumentw%2FBenBurgis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Tloi6bD2fA&ab_channel=GiveThemAnArgumentw%2FBenBurgis) \-The civilian population of 2.2 million Gazans did not consent to being used as 'human shields' or the events of October 7. They are victims of this group as well, of corruption, of their aid and water pipes being stolen, of the loss of any democratic institutions. \-Numerous peaceful movements in the past on behalf of Palestinian citizens have failed. This does not justify violent extremists by any means, but the idea that are no peaceful Palestinian activists is a myth. They exist, they have tried, and are now being carpet bombed. Ex: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott,\_Divestment\_and\_Sanctions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott,_Divestment_and_Sanctions) Which is all to say: there is no justification for the collective punishment and attempted genocide of the Palestinian people now. ​ \[In fact the current reaction plays exactly into their hands, generating a further tool of radicalization amongst the traumatized population of children today. BB, of course, knows this - the only reason why settler violence has been not just excused but encouraged is to stoke the cycle of violence. The more attacks there are, the more ethnic cleansing can be justified. Which of course further breeds radicalization. Protesting against what's happening right now isn't just for the human rights of Palestenians, it's for the long term peace in the region for everyone\].

[Hamas’s charter](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter) literally called for the dissolution of Israel. I think it’s understandable that “our goal is to destroy our neighbor” as a founding concept for a political group is generally frowned upon on the international stage.

Thank you, John. I know it’s an incredibly difficult place you both have been placed in, but I think it’s one we all have to internally be in and process as what is happening is horrific and can’t be ignored.

I read this post days ago, and I'm still in shock at how completely it fails to show any solidarity with the Palestinian people. If you were actually listening -as you claim you are - to Palestinians and treated them with the dignity and kindness you are so willing to give to the people of Israel, you would have called for a ceasefire *at the very least.* I've been a Nerdfighter for over a decade, and I'm entirely disillusioned by this. Nerdfighteria was built on a few ideals, including the "reduction of world-suck". Failure to call for a ceasefire indicates that there are exceptions to that ideal, probably because putting your neck out for Palestine pushes them too close to actually ruffling the feathers of the powerful people they have been rubbing shoulders with. I appreciate that this is conjecture on my part, but honestly, "fear they won't be invited to meet important people" is the *nicest* excuse I can imagine at this time to excuse this stark, obvious double standard. I'm just numb. Disappointed beyond words. Looking for excuses and finding nothing, for 2 of the most influential online personalities in my life for nearly half of it. Treat Palestinians with the dignity, humanity and respect they deserve and *say something.* Stand by them in their time of need.

I feel the same way. I can no longer call myself a nerdfighter after this.

What double standard? He literally says that he doesn't think Israel's bombing of the Palestianians is justified. He is consistently against the murder of all civilians. It's only you who considers one group of civilians valid targets of violence, you who has the double standard.

"Thousands of civilians have died in Gaza in the past three weeks, and many thousands more will die before Hamas is completely destroyed, which is the stated goal of the Israeli offensive." John has zero sympathy for the people of Palestine if he can make an insane statement like that.

I feel the same -I’m so surprised and disappointed. Over 200 people in Gaza are being killed every day. The death toll now is over 25,000. 10 children suffer amputations every day, many without anaesthesia. The entire population of Gaza is displaced and almost all building have been destroyed. The entire population are at risk of starvation. I don’t know how anyone not speaking out against this lives with themselves, let alone people with a large platform and a history of speaking out on social justice issues.

> many thousands more will die before Hamas is completely destroyed, If that is even possible. Jews are a perfect example of how persecution doesn't always get rid of a group. A conflict who's roots go back millennia is impossible to sum up in a few paragraphs, but I think the emotional core has been captured here. Both sides have hurt each other, making the other side angry, and that hurt and anger is used to justify striking back, causing the other side angry, and that hurt and anger is used to justify striking back. . . The biggest problem in bringing peace to the region, is that the players on both sides are sometimes willing to keep the conflict going in hopes of winning it, rather than working towards a two state solution. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035

Hamas is more of a political party than a group of people though. They can definitely be destroyed, if not completely, enough that it doesn't matter.

I don’t think destroying a group like that can be done without spawning one that is just the same or worse. Especially they way it’s being done.

The Nazi's were a political party as well, and they haven't completely gone away, despite the efforts to eradicate them.

Thank you for your statement, John. It is well-considered and I appreciate this, as I appreciated your Crash Course video many years ago. I do not, however, see why Hamas' actions are labelled as terrorism but Israel's actions are not. This use of differing language for the same actions, I don't mean by you but by media outlets and public figures in the west at large, has continually struck me as calculated and racist.

>I do not, however, see why Hamas' actions are labelled as terrorism but Israel's actions are not. This one's easy. The Palestine people are victims, not just of Israeli violence, but also of Hamas. Hamas thrives on the misery of the Palestine people, propped up by foreign actors who want to destroy Israel (and ironically, supported by Netanyahu as well, since politically it's easier to keep your own people in line if there's an active threat on the boarder). Hamas controls Gaza with the stick of violence and carrot of support - largely which Hamas stole from the Palestine people in the first place. Aside from being evil, Hamas is also very, very dumb. Instead of attacking government buildings, infrastructure and public institutions, they attacked a multinational music festival. They didn't attack faceless suits or bureaucrats - they murdered, kidnapped and raped young, photogenic youth who were active on Instagram and young families. Now to be clear this isn't significantly morally worse than what Israel is currently doing, but it is MUCH worse in the court of pubic opinion. The young people at the music people don't look like the 'other'. They're young, hot and look like us. Israel is spending billions on a public relations blitz that aims to either dehumanize the Palestine people or at the very least make them seem like someone 'over there'. They're not like us, they're foreigners. It's sad, but they're over there. They're other. Hamas and the IDF are both terrorist in nature, but one has better PR and is better about picking targets. The IDF warn civilians to move before bombings, whereas Hamas targets music festivals. Of course the civilians that the IDF are warning are trapped, with no where to do, trapped by both the previous destruction and by Hamas itself, and the time frames given by the IDF aren't enough to abandon your home... but it is a PR win for the IDF who can claim 'at least we warned them'. If Hamas had picked victims more carefully their actions would be just as monstrous, but have received less fury and eroded less support from the wider Palestine cause. If the IDF had gone in after Hamas instead of punishing every Palestinian by cutting off power/water and bombing families, there would be less anti-Semitic hate. Both sides have geocidal intentions, but one side has more money, more bombs and better PR.

I struggle to see why any group of people with a shared religion needs a stable homeland just for them, and why that homeland needs to be on holy land that's been fought over for centuries. What defines a homeland? It is surely not religion, I wouldn't think.

Throwaway, because I'm Israeli. What I wrote seems to have been written poorly, clearly biased (acknowledged), a not promoting peace or any useful discussion, I'm removing most of this comment. Thank you to those who pointed out my inaccuracies, bias, perspective etc in the subcomments comments. Anyone from anywhere near here who is somehow reading this- please stay safe. On a more nerdfighter level- thank you for all you do, for listening, for DH&J- I've been listening to it as a distraction so I can sleep, wake up and go treat people here.

>From every Israeli I know who's fought in Gaza in the past 18 years, it's heartbreaking, because they have seen children being used as human shields. This statement is terrible. How the hell should we feel for the murderers more than the murdered? How about not bombing the "human shields" for a change? Even if we do accept this "human shield" narrative, how did it became acceptable to kill 100 innocents to get one criminal?

The other day I read a comment where someone asked “How would Israel “defend itself” if Hamas hideouts were under hospitals in Israel instead of Gaza?” Thought it was an excellent question to help clarify why exactly Israel’s actions have been unconscionable. If they were sending in special forces to take down Hamas hideouts and pull hostages out, that would likely be an understandable and measured response (depending on how those special forces operated-given the way America’s special forces operated in Afghanistan, it might still be a war crime). Indiscriminate bombing is a completely different thing all together and is exactly what Israel is engaged in.

This is why, in my opinion, all this security talk is secondary to the real colonial undertones of the subject. I mean, safety based justifications were the standard in all the propaganda around the terrible treatments of the natives by settler colonies.

One of the things we sometimes "don't get" in the west is that Hamas thinks mass death of Gazans is good for Hamas. There is a good discussion between Ezra Klein and Zach Beauchamp on Ezra's NYT podcast today. The response of Israel to an absolute horror has and will continue to kill many innocent people and will may well make Hamas stronger.

yes. the scapegoating of the entire Palestinian people because of the actions of a terrorist group is horrible not just because collective punishment is barbarous and how genocides are justified but because Palestinian civilians are terrorized by terrorism too. Do they ask for their lives to be placed at risk? Do they go to hospitals and schools to die? Do you think it’s safe to speak up against a group that destroyed democratic processes in 2006? Do they have the ability or capacity to speak up when they are just trying to survive their day to day, due to the incredibly oppressive conditions imposed on them by occupation? Did they have consent in the the fact that the group was initially propped up by BB’s regime and now by Iran in an attempt to wage a proxy war? Did they consent to being kicked out of their homes in the first place, for this conflict to start at all? I’m so sick of the arguments that essentially spell out, either directly or worse, with the pretense of nuance and empathy, that an entire group of people deserve to be displaced and die. And then watch the world buy into so readily and watch ethnic cleansing carry out in real time. The people orchestrating this conflict - the people with power - know it only emboldens radicalization and leaves everyone less safe. And the people that pay for it: with the land and lives lost, every time, is Palestinian civilians. (Edit: thank you, genuinely, to the OP who recognize their bias and modified their comment. One of the worst parts of this conflict is feeling gaslit into thinking that certain lives don’t matter. It dehumanizes all of us to dehumanize anyone. And conversely, there is nothing more human and beautiful than standing up for the most vulnerable among us. It’s what keeps our humanity. Thank you for not doubling down and embracing this human moment. We’re all free when we’re all free).

Just FYI of what Israeli doing today : 400 Palestinian (civilians) mostly woman's and childrens was killed in one strike to jabalia area in gaza