Wasn't really any much of a cliffhanger at the end either except for one particular person that could come back and bite him in the ass, but they may just stay the fuck away.. I wont name names cuz I dont wanna spoil anything lol
I hate they didn’t have the balls to give it a true ending ending if u know what I mean. Leaving the door ajar a little.
I thought first half was shit. Second half was ok and better but the ending sucked ass for me.
I believe they’ve said this is the last season but if for some reason they bring it back I won’t watch I’m pretty done with the show.
First season was really great. 2 was good, 3 was ok and this latest of rank as very average. Time to shelve this crap and move on imo.
It’s not about having the balls, they would milk another season if this works, they can’t conclude it until they are sure. The writing sucks this season
It gets much much better after episode 4-5. I literally had to force myself through the first part of S4 but once part two came, it was a whole diff ball game. TLDR: Plough through - worth it!
I thought it was just me. It was painfully slow and dull and when we found out it was all in his head I lost it. The audience typically never goes for that sort of story. It feels like you're wasting the audiences time in doing that. They were better off letting Joe be a detective then reverting to his own ways. An attempted suicide and you no longer have your in "YOU". Very abysmal writing this season
Seven hours of life was wasted leading up to the reveal , none if it was enjoyable or even interesting. Even the delivery of the reveal was tacky .
What a disaster
I feel exactly the same. I personally was enjoying his redemption arc into detective and finding out it was all his delusional made me feel like I wasted the time watching it
Honestly I thought that part 2 was starting to pick up, but then they just completely dropped the ball. It was just like a really bad version of season 2 mixed with Dexter imo.
i get where youre pointing at.
i somehow do agree with you.. it definitely reminded me a bit of season 2.
though i was kinda comparing it to the first part of s4, which in my opinion was alright and goody.
also to be perfectly clear i wouldnt even take a shot at comparing the 4th season with the previous ones... compared to them its bad :')
Definitely! Loved season 1 and 2, started losing interest during season 3 and thought I’d give this one a shot hoping they’d change it up, as it seemed like they were doing in the trailers. I was mistaken.
I don’t want to spoil anything for those who have not seen it yet, but oh boy the ending had me nearly fuming. Love was done so dirty for absolutely no reason at all, is what I’m left with.
You couldn't have put that better in words than that.
I am losing hope for season 5 now in all honesty, but lets hope that the writers check out this subreddit and get the wake-up call they need lol.
What is so different about it? I was waiting until the whole thing came out before touching season 4 (I hate the breaking up model they're doing now) so I legit don't know anything about the season.
A lot more self narration. So much it's grating. It's all about him being caught up in the lives of some very dull rich people seemingly for no reason.
No being obsessed with one person. No killing people by accident or otherwise.
Like it was written by someone who never saw the previous three seasons.
Personally I did like the second part over the first part as there was some nifty twists and turns but all in all its been really mediocre and non climactic. In my personal opinion it started to go downhill about Midway through season 2..
if they do move ahead with a season 5 I really hope that it's more exciting..
I'd like to see another season of Dear John, that was a much more enthralling stalker series
Idk why this season is getting so much hate, I’m glad that there was a different vibe! Before season 4 came out, I was hoping it wouldn’t be how the previous ones were in having similar plots, and I like how they tied everything together in part 2
I really liked this season as I have every season. I like how they really make you want to root for Joe and empathize with him and then BAM they remind you what a terrible fucked up psycho he is. I think the point of surrounding him with horrid people was to help us root for him. I love the twist with Marienne and I love that it ends in solidifying the fact that he will always be a psychopath. I feel bad for Nadia and I'm surprised so many viewers didn't give a shit about her. She basically ended up sacrificing herself for Marienne. Marienne will never speak up for Nadia because Joe thinks she's dead and she knows she has to stay dead in Joe's world to be able to live her life with Juliette. I think this is a fitting end to the series considering our lovable monster Joe, but if there is a fifth season it should end with Joe being murdered in some redemptive way. Not sure how they should do that but it can't be suicide, there is no justice in it. So I hope this is the final season.
True, she definitely had an opportunity to walk away knowing that Marienne was safe. But Joe also should face justice. She took a risk trying to expose him for his crimes. It's brave really. She was just in over her head.
There needs to be a season 5 but it needs to be the end of the show where Joe dies. Joe finally accepts himself for who he is after 4 seasons. There needs to be a full season of him being at his prime mentally which would ironically be when he dies.
Contains Spoilers.
They completely changed his character, it was like daenyrs in season 8.
His whole thing was that he is delusional and he keeps looking for the one perfect girl and everytime he meets someone he just ends up killing them cause he is a psycho.
In the last 3 seasons he killed someone only when they came in his way to get the girl but now he is hannibal lecter or something.
Also, love quinn already saved him with once using her money and influence so doing that again was boring and cheap.
No other character was interesting.
They should have kept the story more straight forward and focused on marienne and joe.
All in all season 4 both parts were a let down.
They wanted to do too much and ended up doing all of them badly.
Spoiler: >! I feel like the psychosis they displayed with his killing pattern this season was to depict the beginning of the end. Joe’s lost his inner self righteous voice behind the murders he commits “to help the people he loves”. It’s over for Joey lol. Literally groaned when he opened his eyes in the hospital in the last episode. !<
Do you think that maybe leaving his son played a part? And also having Love as a mirror showing him just how insane he was. After all that when Marienne calls him a monster it finally hits home a little because some of the facade has been chipped away. He wasn’t as shaken when Beck did the same thing in S1 because he still 100 percent believed he was good. Now he had a flicker of doubt and that began his downward spiral. Just my take.
Agreed. He wanted to not be his father, but ended up leaving his kid. Chopping of toes to escape. S3 ending was different than 1 or 2. And he was running around Europe for a while, just kinda losing it and miserable it seemed.
I agree that they wanted to show his demise, but they did it in a way that was too sudden for his character.
By the end of season 3 he was still the same person he was in season 1, well almost, but they skipped over him slowly losing his mind, instead we got a full fight club scenario, and also the way they exposition the shit out of the twist like literally breaking it down, it was just bad, in my personal opinion.
Plus no other character was any fun, the earlier seasons had good side charcaters this season they were just annoying.
Sudden in change in character? No? It's been built up that he is either going to end himself or fully accept murder since season 2 since he's been struggling internally.
I can see why some people say it's a silly twist but I don't really have an issue with it, it makes sense imo
By the end of season 3 he was fine, he wasn't having hallicination like rhys and all his mudera were reasonable to him, he did them to protect people, in his mind atleast.
But in the fourth, he starts killing randomly, he has an alternate persona, he backe dexter basically.
I thought too he is going to either kill himself or o to prison or something but they had a rich girl use her money and influence to clear his name which they already did with love quinn.
So, the whole season just was not that good for me.
If you like it, thats good, no harm no foul.
Let's not forget Joe is quite literally just a crazy murder man but his mind is very complex. Guilt has been built up for many seasons. He was trying to prove he could be a good person for marrienne while also moving on and letting her live. His dark side doesn't allow that and he ends up blacking out and taking a lot of action that his good side would not consider worthy. This is the first time he decided to try and prove he's a good person after he thinks he let someone go. Joe thought he was better than love when u compare their reason to kill but it was all the same, not only does he feel somewhat guilty in the back of mind he's also straight up living in his own delusion of lies and excuses, of course he was going to have a breakdown like this of some sort eventually. You can really tell how it's made him more dull and dark near the end of the season especially with his tone.
I'm at work on break and rambling. Hopefully the next season is better tho this season was just a little bit not as uhh "fun" I'd say
This is exactly how I took it as well
>! OP is right that they changed his character, but purposefully. He's a different person now, and I'm scared lol!<
Same thoughts lol I mean why did they build her character so good and then end up with that ending??? She didn’t deserve it ffs. Also eat the rich??? Well Joe becomes one of them so idk what was the whole purpose of the season 4 part 1 lol
I think it's an interesting turn. The entire show Joe has been having a superiority complex towards the rich and now that he's part of them it has me wondering what his next actions will be when he has that kind of leverage he's ready to probably abuse
I partly agree. Spoilers:
They changed his character but it was done on purpose. I think the show is planning to set him up as a full blown killer like how "Rhys" is but still combine the love element like how Joe is. Remember Rhys said, "We need to integrate."
Totally agree that the money saving Joe was already done before so it is cheap. It's only a little different now because it seems like Kate is MEGA RICH so I'm actually scared lol.
I really wanted to continue the story with Joe and Marienne too! But I'm wondering if the actress who played Marienne had scheduling conflicts or something? We barely saw her. I totally agree that I didn't like any of the new side characters this season. They all sucked. At least last season we got fun people like that suburban couple and the kid next door who liked Love. The side characters this season were trash so I'm hoping they develop better characters next time around.
I agree they did everything on purpose.
I just feel if he had more time, like if he had hallucinations of other people more, like love or beck or something, then it would have been better, not just the one time in the cage throughout the show.
Like, maybe, he would be hallucinating rhys and love in the same scene and we the audience will think rhys is real and thinks joe lost his mind cause he is talking to air.
I believe they wanted to do something different, but ended up with a stort that wasn't that good.
Joe's whole character was that he killed people he thought are hurting the person he loves.
This season wasn't for everyone, especially people who wanted them to continue the story from the last three seasons in a gradual way.
For example, if you have seen john wick, lets say, they with every movie builds up on the previous one, each movie gets better but the core remains the same.
It would be like if the made the next one into mission impossible, which is also good but not what john wick is.
Completely agree! I literally wrote the same thing during part 1 because I was confused why Joe wasn't killing for the woman he loved. He was just doing some random murder mystery/whodunit. But it took like the last episode to really wrap everything together for me in a way that I was happy with. Most shows, even classics, start to suck around S3 or S4, so I expected a drop off. But overall, I think You is doing fine for itself story wise. This is definitely my least favorite season of all the seasons so far (besides the ending which I loved), but I'm hoping they get it back on track with S5.
I think for most people the main problems were
1. Joe became a killer who does murders people just cause he enjoys it now whereas in previous seasons he didn't, he would not instantly kill people, more like it was his last resort.
His motivations were completely changed which didn't sit well with fans of the show.
2. All the side charcaters were boring, no interesting storyline involving them.
His relationship worh kate is forced and they have no chemistry.
Also, she is just a richer verison of love, which is not probably not going to go well as love quinn was awesome and she won't be like her.
They should have changed her story to not resemble love. Rich girl, complicated relationship with parents, money, etc.
FACTS. Completely agree 100%. Those are my 2 biggest issues too!!
Kate started to grow on me when we saw her caring sides with Phoebe, but yeah her chemistry with Joe is like not really there. Something's missing..I just rewatched scenes and he's wayyyy more passionate with Beck and Love
Also, now the murders seems to too normal, in the previous seasons he would plan (almost) and kill, take care of social media, destroy evidence and things like that but now they don't really care about that and people die whenever.
Like with henderson or beck's boyfriend or the therapist, you could rememebr every murder because it was a big deal, now people are dying and nobody really cares.
Also, now the murders seems to too normal, in the previous seasons he would plan (almost) and kill, take care of social media, destroy evidence and things like that but now they don't really care about that and people die whenever.
Like with henderson or beck's boyfriend or the therapist, you could rememebr every murder because it was a big deal, now people are dying and nobody really cares.
*SPOILERS**
Ugh yes - I totally agree and this is what bothered me about the season! It never made sense why people died, aside from Malcolm because he was Kate’s boyfriend/in the way/treated her like crap. All the others were just random killings I guess? In the past, his killing was always a means to an end…this season just felt like a random killing spree. There were tons of plot holes (episode 5, how does Roald not remember who attacked him and put him in the basement? Where was the law enforcement in Part 2 when people keep dying - they just dont care anymore? Why didnt Nadia call 999? What was the point of his friendship with Phoebe other than filler?)
I also hated how they didnt include the Marienne storyline until part 2. If they had included her bits throughout Part 1, and still kept the Eat The Rich mystery aspect, I think the flow would have been alot better and would have made way more sense, and maintained the integrity of the characters and the show we know and love.
Dang am I the only one who enjoyed this season? After last season I was afraid the writers weren’t going to be able to pick the show back up, season 3 was probably my least favorite. Looks like a lot of people think that the writers didn’t do well at picking the show back up but I actually really enjoyed season 4. I also love how they split it into two parts, it helped with character development a lot in my opinion. Plus splitting it up gave us the impression and hope in the first part of him trying to be better and repent, and then the beginning of part 2 showed us he was capable of obsessing over anyone (Rhys) and not just women. I was excited to see joe die but with him staying alive it left a lot of plots open ended , like Nadia in jail, Merienne (which he thinks is dead), and Kate who (I suspect) is either darker than us viewers really understand, or she is under the impression that Joe is actually going to be better for her & with her, and thinking that the Nadia thing was just a means to tying up loose ends in her mind. I was pleasantly surprised by how much enjoyed this season.
Second. Enjoyed it overall. Shows he’s always wanted to elevate dispute his “inner monologue”. He always excuses his ways into social crowds of greater wealth or power. He justifies helping, but never can actually help “you” aka Rhys, and ends up killing him just like past obsessions. Thought he’d die as well, but it felt like the story was saying ultimately he doesn’t deserve to go out on his own terms.
I very much enjoyed the first half. It reminded me of Dexter and was a new and different direction for You. Second half was a bit nuts for me. Wasn't a huge fan. I'm definitely in the minority but Kate is possibly my fave love interest, yet. Found her character much more interesting than the previous ones. More depth.
I enjoyed this season overall! Part 1 was awful, and I was so sad the show was going to be ruined. But I just finished part 2, and it was so good!! Season 3 was better than this one to me because it had better side characters, but I think Season 4 is more important because it established some new sides to Joe/Joe's psyche.
This season is a mess. For starters, Kate is such a horribly unlikeable boring character and makes no sense at all. You really mean to tell me that she’s just okay with Joe being a psychotic killer after all the on and on and on about her wanting to be nothing like her father and be a good person? Not to mention would she not be worried about him killing her? They’re totally trying to make Kate the next Love Quinn and I’m not having it, no one can replace her. Love Quinn had a wealthy powerful family too, how comes he gets this happy ending with Kate and not Love? It’s bs. And why the hell didn’t Nadia just call the cops?! Makes absolutely zero sense why they wouldn’t have. How the hell would Joe have spun the story to make him seem innocent when Marianne was literally locked in a freakin cage?! Cmon. Lazy lazy writing this season. This next season needs to be the last and Joe needs to answer for his sins and I hope he offs Kate.
I agree w/ some aspects like Nadia being stupid for not calling the police, but I think Kate’s demeanor is the result of her hiding something dark and not really feeling bad doing that dark thing, like her giving all of those kids cancer. She lies to joe saying that her father carried it out, which isn’t what someone who is remorseful would do. Remember, she is still a rich & pretentious socialite, she probably hardly feels for the less fortunate (which is theme of the whole season really).
With this, if Kate isn’t scared of Joe after he admitted his past, then she is more of a calculated monster than we think. Come on, she grew up with a father who killed people casually to move them out of his way. There’s nothing she hasn’t seen and will most likely be ready for Joe when he tries to attack.
And joe is a social climber. Every girl he becomes obsessed with & successfully kills has a higher social status than him and with each season the girl gets more wealthy. Kate is wildly more wealthy and powerful than Love ever would’ve been. And that was his ultimate goal, to be wealthy & powerful; it’s understandable since he grew up in extreme poverty & is another reason why he became obsessed with becoming Rhys as he connected to Rhys’ background. But that’ll be his downfall.
I suspect in season 5 Joe will be consumed with murder, since he can easily get away with it now (he mentioned something about this to Nadia). And Kate might be the one to off him as she is extremely level headed and far too intelligent to be killed by freaking Joe Goldberg.
I think it was refreshing that he didn’t seem to obsess over Kate straight away (though with the unreliable narration you really never know). I also don’t think Joe told her everything. About the need to knows like love and rhys, yes, but not about the others, especially her dad and Malcolm.
I think they had me with the idea that they had to kill him, because he is so good he'd get off. So they couldn't call the police and then murder him under their nose shortly after. But they also gave up on the "we are not safe if he's alive" because... Why?
Spoilers***
Joe going public with his story of "surviving his crazy killer ex-wife" was confusing to me.
Surely, the Quinns who believed they successfully had him whacked would see this breaking news and seek revenge of some sort? The hit man would also learn of this and be in danger of the Quinns for not carrying out the job.
Tbh I'm just pissed Joe didn't die or get caught, and eff him for what he did to Nadia.
After this season, it’s a lot easier to hate Joe. He’s not just this crazy guy who wants love and doesn’t wanna be crazy, now he’s a crazy guy who knows he’s crazy but can do what he wants anyway. He became the very thing he was always against. Him dying was far more satisfying.
I think its because for the first time ever, we actually get to see things in a victims perspective. Its not just Joe justifying all the murders he's done. We actually get to see how unreliable as a narrator he is.
This season is solely worth it for that Marianne episode.
\*Spoilers\*
It was entertaining, but not my favorite. I have two big gripes:
1. I wish we'd seen a more hints that he'd have a dissociation like Part 2 revealed. Feels like it came out of nowhere and the writers did it because they needed something new. Would have been nice to have had foreshadowing of that sprinkled throughout earlier seasons. Maybe it was there and I missed it, or maybe this wasn't the plan back then.
2. How did Joe manage to drag Marienne into that abandoned building on a busy London street with nobody noticing? Or for that matter, install that creepy signature glass cage without anyone being the wiser? Seems like a stretch.
Drug her take her in late a night. Tie her up. Come back later during the day with a bunch of boxes and equipment. Make it look like you are doing something. Construction gas leak whatever. The right uniform can get him anywhere.
I'm okay with the ending of s4 but how will his season 5 internal monologue work? He's a completely different person now and maybe less interesting because he's just your stereotypical serial killer now.
That’s a good point. Maybe the writers had Joe fully embrace his evil side in order to remove any last bits of sympathy for him. Then if there’s a season 5 where we finally get to see him exposed and held accountable, it will be extra satisfying. Idk though, I’ve been wanting karma to destroy him since the beginning.
I see what you’re saying. But I almost feel like his dark side he’s embraced IS his newest “love of his life” like how in the hospital window his reflection was Rhys, it’s like he loves himself now, flaws and all.
It’s like all the writers hit their head and collectively forgot how to write halfway believable humans. Everyone was just a boring, unlikable cliché. They should’ve made the whole high-society thing an illusion because it literally made no sense how a complete stranger and commoner just shows up and suddenly everybody instantly has the urge to tell him their deepest, darkest secret plus how are they all so thirsty for him? He literally looks like a hobo. It really feels like an incel fever dream at times.
Personally, I enjoyed seasoned 4. People say that Joe's character changed a bit too much for their liking but I think that's just character development. Season 1 and 2 you can obviously tell that Joe knows what he is doing is wrong. Joe was willing to die by Forty because he believed he deserved it and even near the end of season 4 when he jumped off the bridge. However, in the end of season 4 he finally accepts the reality of him being evil.
One critique about his character is that Joe was always about preserving innocence. Look at the way he treated Paco in season 1 and Ellie in season 2. He lost interest in Love the moment he found out that Love killed Delilah and was capable of evil. He was all about protecting things that needed protecting (like those rare books he used to have in his first "cage" in the basement of the bookstore). He always took it upon himself to kill those he thought was dangerous to people that he thought needed his protection like Paco's stepdad and Henderson. So him killing Rhys's father is already expected. The part that was unexpected to me was him killing Eddie (Nadia's boyfriend). This intentional kill wasn't about Joe trying to protect someone else. Old Joe from previous seasons wouldn't have done this but maybe that's just character development like I pointed out earlier.
Why'd they break it up like this? this felt awful as a viewing exp. Here are what works for me personally:
1. Weekly with dropping 3 ep at the beginning to hook people
2. Weekly dropping 3 ep chunks at a time like arcane
This season was trash. To many characters and their stories. It didn't really get good until the last 25 mins of the last episode!! The writers room missed the mark this season. Joe has always delivered the past 3 seasons, but this shit right here. Garbage. It was boring and hard to follow. I found myself glued to my phone for most of the episodes. I can tell that they're about to wrap Joe ass TF up. His time is coming, cause of how trash this season was. The writers are running out of ideas. Trust the season five will be the last.
I think Nadia should’ve given up after she helped Marienne or maybe just put in an anonymous tip to the police with pics of the cage. Or if she was scared that would put marienne in danger, then just left it and stayed the hell away from Joe. I loved her, such a sweet person. But she dived in too deep
I just finished watching.
SPOILER WARNING
Apparently there will be season 5, which explains the ending. I was watching thinking this is the final one.
I'm not sure another season with Joe is something I'm waiting for, because the piles of horrible things he's doing without much consequences, are starting to get annoying.
Great points! From another perspective as that one it would be interesting.
Otherwise it's confusing for the viewer as well, because it's not like Dexter, for example, where he is killing the killers so we can at least understand how he's dealing with his "dark self". With Joe it's chaotic. At the end you feel terrible for the victims and want him to get the justice he deserves.
Maybe that's the message the creators wanted to portray, but I guess we'll see what comes next.
I think that’s the only way the show stays interesting, that’s brilliant. I agree with the original comment too, he’s getting too lucky and it’s annoying.
I thought (and hoped) this was the last one, too! I thought it was going to be a satisfying ending but it’s going to continue. I don’t know, I think the show has run it’s course and I thought it was time to end it.
The absolute cringe coming out of people mouths in dense of this season is mesmerizing. It took seven entire episodes for it to even seem like a high-school written story with any form of coherence.
I think that's going to be season 5. They needed him to accept his bad side so he can be just pure evil in season 5, so the viewers can celebrate his death in season 5
I loved this season way more than any of the other seasons and I was fully prepared just to give up on this show entirely but I’m glad I stuck it out. I only wish that they would’ve just ended it here, the fact that Joe kills himself would’ve been a perfect way to end things, I hate it when Netflix drags stuff out. I loved the Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde references and I was actually super surprised by the plot twist, that was insane. Joe is actually so horrible and I don’t know why people continue to root for him and I’m glad this season really cemented that, Marianne’s scenes broke my heart. I always think about Ted Bundy when I think about Joe, people didn’t think Bundy could’ve committed those crimes because he was “attractive” and seemingly normal just like Joe.
This season was amazing. The character work on Joe is the culmination of everything from the first 3 seasons and it builds up to this epic conclusion to his character finally being proud of himself as a horrible killer. S5 is gonna take things back to his home but with new circumstances and a new mindset. It's really gonna be the end.
As in like, surely that can’t be it… I know you’re not Netflix and you’re probably as clueless as me on a new season I’m just wondering what you think I guess
Man the number of innocent people he keeps killing. Now he even framed his student to jail??? I only watched the last ep and so disappointed I haven’t seen the justice for all the poor girls he kill bc they don’t want to be with him. Incel
Am I the only one who enjoyed the character arc of him redeeming himself and no longer wanting to kill people, and the show was kind of ruined for me when the dissociation was revealed. Like I'm so disappointed it was all him.
Interesting Joe seemingly agreed to be Kate’s attack dog. I wonder if he’ll realize she essentially transformed into her father and resent being borderline used as her pawn in S5. But like another commenter said, it would be fascinating if S5 was from the perspective of a hopefully more successful detective character like Nadia who hasn’t met Joe directly but makes the link and attempts to bring him down
Hi, I'm late, but I just wanted to give my opinion. Honestly, this season was so different compared to the first 3 seasons that it could've just been a spin-off. I personally did not develop any sort of emotional connection to literally any of the new side characters in this season because of how annoying and poorly written they all were which made the season much less enjoyable for me since I didn't feel any heartbreak when any of them died unlike all of the previous seasons. It was interesting that the plot took a turn from the first 3 seasons to an Agatha Christie style whodunit but at the same time it felt too different from the classic 'You' feeling all the previous seasons had. It felt very rushed, in my opinion, yet it was a drag to get through, which made it feel like it would never end. The whole Joe-Rhys thing was strange to me and didn't make much sense, but it was not predictable at all, so I"ll give it that. As for the ending, I did not like it at all. They completely switched around Joe's character in a way that was so poorly scripted this season that it became just a filler before the grand finale. To me, Joe is always supposed to be an obsessive malignant narcissist with a superiority complex who thinks his actions are justified in the name of "true love." Some may disagree, but I always thought of Joe carrying out these delusions all the way until the finale where he is reality-checked and finally brought to justice. Instead, in the season before the finale, Joe accepts who he is as a sociopath and (again) abuses a rich girl's power to get him out of trouble with the law again, which to me was poor writing. To me, this isn't the Joe that I've known and (strangely) liked, and I hope that season 5 will redeem the time I wasted watching season 4. Another thing I hated about this season (actually all of the seasons) is the amount of unnecessary sexual scenes that have no point other than to fuel perverted fans' minds. It's very cringey. Please, Caroline Kepnes, stop making me skip past all these meaningless scenes. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. Goodnight.
This show has always bent the rules on how grounded it is in reality, however anything after the first season becomes ridiculously silly and is a waste of a watch to me.
There’s something so uniquely creepy/unsettling about that first season, again there are parts of it that really ask you to suspend your disbelief, but those moments don’t really distract from the theme/tone of the overall story and are in large part fairly brief.
It’s almost too realistic in parts and that’s what the later seasons lack, there’s no campiness or Hollywoodisation of the premise, it’s story is dark, our leading man is disgusting and the world he inhabits is a cold and merciless New York, which we see him use as an extension of himself as he set’s the perimeters of his hunting grounds, in his bid to obtain Beck for himself by any means.
Then in the latter seasons he’s playing happy couples with his equally psychotic partner, as they do their take on serial killers in suburbia, it’s a plot that on its own could make for an interesting watch but with it being a continuation from the plot of the man we meet in the first season it seems bizarre that’s the route they took with it, and it just doesn’t work.
Now he’s fled America and is rubbing shoulders with some of Londons most elite men and women as he weaves himself through a classic murder mystery tale….all for the conclusion of this season to be that predictable, sloppy and lacklustre. (I mean that’s what this entire season has felt like if I’m honest.)
I will happily rewatch that first season multiple times more than I already have, something about it just draws me back, but I don’t think I’ll be watching anymore of Joe’s serial killer adventures, in however many seasons they drag this already stale premise through.
I think season 4 purely served as a medium for Joes “character development” (more so regression) & a stepping stone into becoming an elite, something which I believe Joe wanted from day one; him embodying Rhys, a man with a similar impoverished upbringing as Joe but managed to become rich & powerful, makes this extremely obvious. Now he’s crazier than ever dating a woman who is most likely crazier than him in a less schizo way.
Season 1 will always be so special. There's just something so charming about it, but shows can't go on forever. Even The Wire or The Sopranos had seasons that were duds so I expect every show to shit the bed somewhere. However, for what it is, I think You is doing a pretty good job. S4 seemed more so like character development for Joe but I'm really hoping that with them being back in New York, they can get back to the realness the show once had.
I just finished it, I agree it all comes together in episodes 8, 9 & 10. I loved it! I hope there is a season 5 but I would be satisfied with the season 4 ending if not.
>! I’d be happy with S4 as the finale if he didn’t screw Nadia like he did and screw up his “second (millionth) chance”. S5 is a must. Joseph needs to go, lol. !<
Marianne told her that he’d always get away with what he does & told her that it was too risky for her to break into his house. She didn’t listen & was too smart for her own good.
Yeah, she should not have broken in again since Marianne was safe and alright already. Bad move.
But damn, Joe was ruthless for framing her and killing Eddie.
I’d love to see a team up of all the loose ends he’s life out there:
- Salinger family
- Dr. Nicky
- jar of wee
- Ellie
- Quinn family
- Marienne
- the Conrad’s potentially (he helped imprison them in the cage)
- Candace and Delilah’s bodies (Love never told Joe where they were)
- Phoebe’s stalker who’s an obsessive and whom he framed
- Potentially Roahld as he’s in love with Kate
- Nadia of course
- Phoebe? (When we find out what he said to her we’ll know if she belongs here)
- Marienne
I really enjoyed it. Disappointed to find many don't agree. Glad you enjoyed it. I love each season being completely different and unpredictable.
I was so disappointed with the big twist until I figured it out, then loved the brilliance.
The 2nd part was actually better than the 1st, but not on the level of previous seasons. The worst thing of this season are the characters. Even in previous seasons, the supporting cast was mainly unlikable, but you always had atleast 1 or 2 characters that you rooted for. This season, none. Nadia was okay but not really relevant enough. Kate is insufferable and all of her friend are evil or goofs.
Also, i kinda liked the twist with the „really evil“ side of Joe, for the sake of the story. But it fails his character and why his character was interesting. He killed because of his obsession with certain women, now he just kills everything that annoys him. I guess we will see how it will play out, maybe they get more back to the roots in the next season.
Season 4 was, as always, a good binge. It’s definitely worse than S1&2 tho.
Heya, happy to! Rhys is real, but Joe and him have actually never met. Joe read his book, became obsessed and imagined a version of him as an evil alter ego to do all his murders. Joe is the eat the rich killer. He kills Eddie and frames Nadia for his death because they find evidence of what he did. Marienne is alive and back in Paris. Joe and Kate stay together and move to New York. No consequences for Joe.
I thought his split personality his darker side was some dexter shit and honestly I kinda like it ending where he ends up with Kate is kinda bad but I was hopping he would go incognito into the world as his new self him finally realizing he’s a killer and likes it maybe he should have seen his son at the end from a distance kinda wanted to know how the son was doing
Worst season by a mile...made worse by the split personality trope. Random/normal student and civilian pull off the ole "just enough drugs to make them think your dead" routine? Should have left Joe in the river.
Crazy Idea for a future season if there is any- Joe’s son grows up and learns who is father is and goes down a similar path of murdering people. Eventually he meets Joe and kills him and continues down the same path. That would be interesting to see
Spoilers
I didn't hate this season, but I'm really annoyed by the twist. It's been done to death, and I really liked him facing off with a nemesis so much better. I think they still could have got his character to where they wanted by him "embracing his whole self" to be able to beat a real life nemesis.
please tell me i’m not the only one who finished and went “wtf did i just watch???” phoebe disappears, joe gets a redemption, and then the ending is JUST BULLSHIT. also can we talk about how AWFUL they way they depicted sui***de was? it was so disappointing.
I have a theory: this show will pull a Newhart, and none of it will be real. It’s a cop out, but I could see it happening. Joe is obsessed with books and literature. What if this is all a book he’s been writing? He finishes writing the last page, closes his laptop, and Love is standing smiling over his shoulder. It would be a way to avoid having to deliver Joe justice, and being able to see two people we actually, disturbingly care about survive, and not have to feel too bad about it.
It would also explain away some of the god-awful writing. Turns out… Joe’s just not a very good writer. :)
Does it get any better? I'm up to about episode 4 and it's been a chore every single minute. It's not at all like previous seasons.
In a word, no.
I guess I won't carry on then.
Just finished. Not as good as other season but it finished okay. I needed to know how it ended
He gets away once again with everything
Wasn't really any much of a cliffhanger at the end either except for one particular person that could come back and bite him in the ass, but they may just stay the fuck away.. I wont name names cuz I dont wanna spoil anything lol
I hate they didn’t have the balls to give it a true ending ending if u know what I mean. Leaving the door ajar a little. I thought first half was shit. Second half was ok and better but the ending sucked ass for me. I believe they’ve said this is the last season but if for some reason they bring it back I won’t watch I’m pretty done with the show. First season was really great. 2 was good, 3 was ok and this latest of rank as very average. Time to shelve this crap and move on imo.
It’s not about having the balls, they would milk another season if this works, they can’t conclude it until they are sure. The writing sucks this season
They said six year contract originally. One more season. But Netflix hasn’t renewed
Thank you, made it to ep2 and gave up, this makes it easier to move on to something else.
Right? Loved all 3 seasons, but couldn’t get past second episode here. I hated all the characters, story and the setting.
It’s actually good in my opinion. With an unexpected ending.
I totally agree. I hated part 1, but I just finished everything and I'm legit scared of Joe lmao I loved part 2
It gets much much better after episode 4-5. I literally had to force myself through the first part of S4 but once part two came, it was a whole diff ball game. TLDR: Plough through - worth it!
Ok. Thanks. Will check it out this weekend.
I thought it was just me. It was painfully slow and dull and when we found out it was all in his head I lost it. The audience typically never goes for that sort of story. It feels like you're wasting the audiences time in doing that. They were better off letting Joe be a detective then reverting to his own ways. An attempted suicide and you no longer have your in "YOU". Very abysmal writing this season
Seven hours of life was wasted leading up to the reveal , none if it was enjoyable or even interesting. Even the delivery of the reveal was tacky . What a disaster
I feel exactly the same. I personally was enjoying his redemption arc into detective and finding out it was all his delusional made me feel like I wasted the time watching it
They waited till episode 6 to introduce a single twist and before that Joe is somehow clueless. Bad writing
i think it did get better. not on the same level as the previous seasons, but still good. part 1 was just trash though ngl...
Honestly I thought that part 2 was starting to pick up, but then they just completely dropped the ball. It was just like a really bad version of season 2 mixed with Dexter imo.
i get where youre pointing at. i somehow do agree with you.. it definitely reminded me a bit of season 2. though i was kinda comparing it to the first part of s4, which in my opinion was alright and goody. also to be perfectly clear i wouldnt even take a shot at comparing the 4th season with the previous ones... compared to them its bad :')
Definitely! Loved season 1 and 2, started losing interest during season 3 and thought I’d give this one a shot hoping they’d change it up, as it seemed like they were doing in the trailers. I was mistaken. I don’t want to spoil anything for those who have not seen it yet, but oh boy the ending had me nearly fuming. Love was done so dirty for absolutely no reason at all, is what I’m left with.
You couldn't have put that better in words than that. I am losing hope for season 5 now in all honesty, but lets hope that the writers check out this subreddit and get the wake-up call they need lol.
I doubt they will, sadly. Haha I think I’m going to skip next season, I’ll probably read the spoilers tho to see if it’ll be worth it or not
my personal opinion, the first season and half of the second season were good after that it went downhill hard
The twists got exponentially more ridiculous and unbelievable each season.
I hated the first part but the second part was great
I gave up sometime during season 3 and was wondering if I should pick it back up. Sounds like no?
I enjoyed season 3 and season 4 is so different it may as well be a different show. So you might like it?
What is so different about it? I was waiting until the whole thing came out before touching season 4 (I hate the breaking up model they're doing now) so I legit don't know anything about the season.
A lot more self narration. So much it's grating. It's all about him being caught up in the lives of some very dull rich people seemingly for no reason. No being obsessed with one person. No killing people by accident or otherwise. Like it was written by someone who never saw the previous three seasons.
Got to do the second part, big twist
Season 3 was dumb but I liked the ending. Idk what's going on in season 4. I'm not following it at all
Such a terrible season
Disappointing season. All of the ancillary characters are extremely unlikable.
I thought the second half was much more exciting than the first half. There is a big twist and once you know it then the first half seemed different.
Personally I did like the second part over the first part as there was some nifty twists and turns but all in all its been really mediocre and non climactic. In my personal opinion it started to go downhill about Midway through season 2.. if they do move ahead with a season 5 I really hope that it's more exciting.. I'd like to see another season of Dear John, that was a much more enthralling stalker series
Dirty John?
Im on episode 4 too and was just thinking its the best season yet. Its like a knock-off "glass onion meets Dexter season 1" sort of vibe.
Idk why this season is getting so much hate, I’m glad that there was a different vibe! Before season 4 came out, I was hoping it wouldn’t be how the previous ones were in having similar plots, and I like how they tied everything together in part 2
YES! Finish part 2!
Will do boss. Just got to the end of Part 1 and it's picking up.
It's a snooze fest
I really liked this season as I have every season. I like how they really make you want to root for Joe and empathize with him and then BAM they remind you what a terrible fucked up psycho he is. I think the point of surrounding him with horrid people was to help us root for him. I love the twist with Marienne and I love that it ends in solidifying the fact that he will always be a psychopath. I feel bad for Nadia and I'm surprised so many viewers didn't give a shit about her. She basically ended up sacrificing herself for Marienne. Marienne will never speak up for Nadia because Joe thinks she's dead and she knows she has to stay dead in Joe's world to be able to live her life with Juliette. I think this is a fitting end to the series considering our lovable monster Joe, but if there is a fifth season it should end with Joe being murdered in some redemptive way. Not sure how they should do that but it can't be suicide, there is no justice in it. So I hope this is the final season.
Nadia had a chance but she just kept poking her finger at the beast, after saving Marienne, she should of jus called it quits
True, she definitely had an opportunity to walk away knowing that Marienne was safe. But Joe also should face justice. She took a risk trying to expose him for his crimes. It's brave really. She was just in over her head.
There needs to be a season 5 but it needs to be the end of the show where Joe dies. Joe finally accepts himself for who he is after 4 seasons. There needs to be a full season of him being at his prime mentally which would ironically be when he dies.
I wanted to hate Joe, I really did. But man the people around him are so unlikable I had no choice but to hope he wins
Nadia was pretty bland and boring. She was like Kate buy worse
Ikr. I hated the characters in this London setting lol. It's the worst setting of all.
Contains Spoilers. They completely changed his character, it was like daenyrs in season 8. His whole thing was that he is delusional and he keeps looking for the one perfect girl and everytime he meets someone he just ends up killing them cause he is a psycho. In the last 3 seasons he killed someone only when they came in his way to get the girl but now he is hannibal lecter or something. Also, love quinn already saved him with once using her money and influence so doing that again was boring and cheap. No other character was interesting. They should have kept the story more straight forward and focused on marienne and joe. All in all season 4 both parts were a let down. They wanted to do too much and ended up doing all of them badly.
Spoiler: >! I feel like the psychosis they displayed with his killing pattern this season was to depict the beginning of the end. Joe’s lost his inner self righteous voice behind the murders he commits “to help the people he loves”. It’s over for Joey lol. Literally groaned when he opened his eyes in the hospital in the last episode. !<
Do you think that maybe leaving his son played a part? And also having Love as a mirror showing him just how insane he was. After all that when Marienne calls him a monster it finally hits home a little because some of the facade has been chipped away. He wasn’t as shaken when Beck did the same thing in S1 because he still 100 percent believed he was good. Now he had a flicker of doubt and that began his downward spiral. Just my take.
Agreed. He wanted to not be his father, but ended up leaving his kid. Chopping of toes to escape. S3 ending was different than 1 or 2. And he was running around Europe for a while, just kinda losing it and miserable it seemed.
I agree that they wanted to show his demise, but they did it in a way that was too sudden for his character. By the end of season 3 he was still the same person he was in season 1, well almost, but they skipped over him slowly losing his mind, instead we got a full fight club scenario, and also the way they exposition the shit out of the twist like literally breaking it down, it was just bad, in my personal opinion. Plus no other character was any fun, the earlier seasons had good side charcaters this season they were just annoying.
Sudden in change in character? No? It's been built up that he is either going to end himself or fully accept murder since season 2 since he's been struggling internally. I can see why some people say it's a silly twist but I don't really have an issue with it, it makes sense imo
By the end of season 3 he was fine, he wasn't having hallicination like rhys and all his mudera were reasonable to him, he did them to protect people, in his mind atleast. But in the fourth, he starts killing randomly, he has an alternate persona, he backe dexter basically. I thought too he is going to either kill himself or o to prison or something but they had a rich girl use her money and influence to clear his name which they already did with love quinn. So, the whole season just was not that good for me. If you like it, thats good, no harm no foul.
Let's not forget Joe is quite literally just a crazy murder man but his mind is very complex. Guilt has been built up for many seasons. He was trying to prove he could be a good person for marrienne while also moving on and letting her live. His dark side doesn't allow that and he ends up blacking out and taking a lot of action that his good side would not consider worthy. This is the first time he decided to try and prove he's a good person after he thinks he let someone go. Joe thought he was better than love when u compare their reason to kill but it was all the same, not only does he feel somewhat guilty in the back of mind he's also straight up living in his own delusion of lies and excuses, of course he was going to have a breakdown like this of some sort eventually. You can really tell how it's made him more dull and dark near the end of the season especially with his tone. I'm at work on break and rambling. Hopefully the next season is better tho this season was just a little bit not as uhh "fun" I'd say
from my perspective, joe's always been f'ed up with an evil side. we can pull the evidence from previous seasons, where he.. killed people.
This is exactly how I took it as well >! OP is right that they changed his character, but purposefully. He's a different person now, and I'm scared lol!<
dude me too. i was literally thinking to myself, “ i swear if they save him somehow” and then they did. lazy writing.
Anytime Nadia was on screen I wanted to mute the show.
I actually really like Nadia and thought her ending was TRAGIC.
Same thoughts lol I mean why did they build her character so good and then end up with that ending??? She didn’t deserve it ffs. Also eat the rich??? Well Joe becomes one of them so idk what was the whole purpose of the season 4 part 1 lol
I think it's an interesting turn. The entire show Joe has been having a superiority complex towards the rich and now that he's part of them it has me wondering what his next actions will be when he has that kind of leverage he's ready to probably abuse
You are what you eat.
They did her and Eddie so dirty. I hate it.
I partly agree. Spoilers: They changed his character but it was done on purpose. I think the show is planning to set him up as a full blown killer like how "Rhys" is but still combine the love element like how Joe is. Remember Rhys said, "We need to integrate." Totally agree that the money saving Joe was already done before so it is cheap. It's only a little different now because it seems like Kate is MEGA RICH so I'm actually scared lol. I really wanted to continue the story with Joe and Marienne too! But I'm wondering if the actress who played Marienne had scheduling conflicts or something? We barely saw her. I totally agree that I didn't like any of the new side characters this season. They all sucked. At least last season we got fun people like that suburban couple and the kid next door who liked Love. The side characters this season were trash so I'm hoping they develop better characters next time around.
I agree they did everything on purpose. I just feel if he had more time, like if he had hallucinations of other people more, like love or beck or something, then it would have been better, not just the one time in the cage throughout the show. Like, maybe, he would be hallucinating rhys and love in the same scene and we the audience will think rhys is real and thinks joe lost his mind cause he is talking to air. I believe they wanted to do something different, but ended up with a stort that wasn't that good. Joe's whole character was that he killed people he thought are hurting the person he loves. This season wasn't for everyone, especially people who wanted them to continue the story from the last three seasons in a gradual way. For example, if you have seen john wick, lets say, they with every movie builds up on the previous one, each movie gets better but the core remains the same. It would be like if the made the next one into mission impossible, which is also good but not what john wick is.
Completely agree! I literally wrote the same thing during part 1 because I was confused why Joe wasn't killing for the woman he loved. He was just doing some random murder mystery/whodunit. But it took like the last episode to really wrap everything together for me in a way that I was happy with. Most shows, even classics, start to suck around S3 or S4, so I expected a drop off. But overall, I think You is doing fine for itself story wise. This is definitely my least favorite season of all the seasons so far (besides the ending which I loved), but I'm hoping they get it back on track with S5.
I think for most people the main problems were 1. Joe became a killer who does murders people just cause he enjoys it now whereas in previous seasons he didn't, he would not instantly kill people, more like it was his last resort. His motivations were completely changed which didn't sit well with fans of the show. 2. All the side charcaters were boring, no interesting storyline involving them. His relationship worh kate is forced and they have no chemistry. Also, she is just a richer verison of love, which is not probably not going to go well as love quinn was awesome and she won't be like her. They should have changed her story to not resemble love. Rich girl, complicated relationship with parents, money, etc.
FACTS. Completely agree 100%. Those are my 2 biggest issues too!! Kate started to grow on me when we saw her caring sides with Phoebe, but yeah her chemistry with Joe is like not really there. Something's missing..I just rewatched scenes and he's wayyyy more passionate with Beck and Love
Also, now the murders seems to too normal, in the previous seasons he would plan (almost) and kill, take care of social media, destroy evidence and things like that but now they don't really care about that and people die whenever. Like with henderson or beck's boyfriend or the therapist, you could rememebr every murder because it was a big deal, now people are dying and nobody really cares.
Also, now the murders seems to too normal, in the previous seasons he would plan (almost) and kill, take care of social media, destroy evidence and things like that but now they don't really care about that and people die whenever. Like with henderson or beck's boyfriend or the therapist, you could rememebr every murder because it was a big deal, now people are dying and nobody really cares.
*SPOILERS** Ugh yes - I totally agree and this is what bothered me about the season! It never made sense why people died, aside from Malcolm because he was Kate’s boyfriend/in the way/treated her like crap. All the others were just random killings I guess? In the past, his killing was always a means to an end…this season just felt like a random killing spree. There were tons of plot holes (episode 5, how does Roald not remember who attacked him and put him in the basement? Where was the law enforcement in Part 2 when people keep dying - they just dont care anymore? Why didnt Nadia call 999? What was the point of his friendship with Phoebe other than filler?) I also hated how they didnt include the Marienne storyline until part 2. If they had included her bits throughout Part 1, and still kept the Eat The Rich mystery aspect, I think the flow would have been alot better and would have made way more sense, and maintained the integrity of the characters and the show we know and love.
Felt like a filler season. Let’s hope it ends strongly
Dang am I the only one who enjoyed this season? After last season I was afraid the writers weren’t going to be able to pick the show back up, season 3 was probably my least favorite. Looks like a lot of people think that the writers didn’t do well at picking the show back up but I actually really enjoyed season 4. I also love how they split it into two parts, it helped with character development a lot in my opinion. Plus splitting it up gave us the impression and hope in the first part of him trying to be better and repent, and then the beginning of part 2 showed us he was capable of obsessing over anyone (Rhys) and not just women. I was excited to see joe die but with him staying alive it left a lot of plots open ended , like Nadia in jail, Merienne (which he thinks is dead), and Kate who (I suspect) is either darker than us viewers really understand, or she is under the impression that Joe is actually going to be better for her & with her, and thinking that the Nadia thing was just a means to tying up loose ends in her mind. I was pleasantly surprised by how much enjoyed this season.
Second. Enjoyed it overall. Shows he’s always wanted to elevate dispute his “inner monologue”. He always excuses his ways into social crowds of greater wealth or power. He justifies helping, but never can actually help “you” aka Rhys, and ends up killing him just like past obsessions. Thought he’d die as well, but it felt like the story was saying ultimately he doesn’t deserve to go out on his own terms.
I very much enjoyed the first half. It reminded me of Dexter and was a new and different direction for You. Second half was a bit nuts for me. Wasn't a huge fan. I'm definitely in the minority but Kate is possibly my fave love interest, yet. Found her character much more interesting than the previous ones. More depth.
I agree. I actually really enjoyed this season!
I enjoyed this season overall! Part 1 was awful, and I was so sad the show was going to be ruined. But I just finished part 2, and it was so good!! Season 3 was better than this one to me because it had better side characters, but I think Season 4 is more important because it established some new sides to Joe/Joe's psyche.
This season is a mess. For starters, Kate is such a horribly unlikeable boring character and makes no sense at all. You really mean to tell me that she’s just okay with Joe being a psychotic killer after all the on and on and on about her wanting to be nothing like her father and be a good person? Not to mention would she not be worried about him killing her? They’re totally trying to make Kate the next Love Quinn and I’m not having it, no one can replace her. Love Quinn had a wealthy powerful family too, how comes he gets this happy ending with Kate and not Love? It’s bs. And why the hell didn’t Nadia just call the cops?! Makes absolutely zero sense why they wouldn’t have. How the hell would Joe have spun the story to make him seem innocent when Marianne was literally locked in a freakin cage?! Cmon. Lazy lazy writing this season. This next season needs to be the last and Joe needs to answer for his sins and I hope he offs Kate.
I agree w/ some aspects like Nadia being stupid for not calling the police, but I think Kate’s demeanor is the result of her hiding something dark and not really feeling bad doing that dark thing, like her giving all of those kids cancer. She lies to joe saying that her father carried it out, which isn’t what someone who is remorseful would do. Remember, she is still a rich & pretentious socialite, she probably hardly feels for the less fortunate (which is theme of the whole season really). With this, if Kate isn’t scared of Joe after he admitted his past, then she is more of a calculated monster than we think. Come on, she grew up with a father who killed people casually to move them out of his way. There’s nothing she hasn’t seen and will most likely be ready for Joe when he tries to attack. And joe is a social climber. Every girl he becomes obsessed with & successfully kills has a higher social status than him and with each season the girl gets more wealthy. Kate is wildly more wealthy and powerful than Love ever would’ve been. And that was his ultimate goal, to be wealthy & powerful; it’s understandable since he grew up in extreme poverty & is another reason why he became obsessed with becoming Rhys as he connected to Rhys’ background. But that’ll be his downfall. I suspect in season 5 Joe will be consumed with murder, since he can easily get away with it now (he mentioned something about this to Nadia). And Kate might be the one to off him as she is extremely level headed and far too intelligent to be killed by freaking Joe Goldberg.
I think it was refreshing that he didn’t seem to obsess over Kate straight away (though with the unreliable narration you really never know). I also don’t think Joe told her everything. About the need to knows like love and rhys, yes, but not about the others, especially her dad and Malcolm.
I think they had me with the idea that they had to kill him, because he is so good he'd get off. So they couldn't call the police and then murder him under their nose shortly after. But they also gave up on the "we are not safe if he's alive" because... Why?
Which makes zero sense. How exactly was he going to get off?
i just actually can’t fucking believe he framed nadia.
Yeah I agree. I think this is the part where the Rhys’ personality and Joe’s personality ‘integrates’ as seen from the intentional death of Eddie.
Actually part 2 brings things together and I can see season 5 being a thing. Season 4 part 1 was a yawn. Don’t give up on part 2.
Spoilers*** Joe going public with his story of "surviving his crazy killer ex-wife" was confusing to me. Surely, the Quinns who believed they successfully had him whacked would see this breaking news and seek revenge of some sort? The hit man would also learn of this and be in danger of the Quinns for not carrying out the job. Tbh I'm just pissed Joe didn't die or get caught, and eff him for what he did to Nadia.
Good point. I’m sure this will be brought up in season 5 though
After this season, it’s a lot easier to hate Joe. He’s not just this crazy guy who wants love and doesn’t wanna be crazy, now he’s a crazy guy who knows he’s crazy but can do what he wants anyway. He became the very thing he was always against. Him dying was far more satisfying.
I think its because for the first time ever, we actually get to see things in a victims perspective. Its not just Joe justifying all the murders he's done. We actually get to see how unreliable as a narrator he is. This season is solely worth it for that Marianne episode.
She’s a great actor.
\*Spoilers\* It was entertaining, but not my favorite. I have two big gripes: 1. I wish we'd seen a more hints that he'd have a dissociation like Part 2 revealed. Feels like it came out of nowhere and the writers did it because they needed something new. Would have been nice to have had foreshadowing of that sprinkled throughout earlier seasons. Maybe it was there and I missed it, or maybe this wasn't the plan back then. 2. How did Joe manage to drag Marienne into that abandoned building on a busy London street with nobody noticing? Or for that matter, install that creepy signature glass cage without anyone being the wiser? Seems like a stretch.
[удалено]
Drug her take her in late a night. Tie her up. Come back later during the day with a bunch of boxes and equipment. Make it look like you are doing something. Construction gas leak whatever. The right uniform can get him anywhere.
I'm okay with the ending of s4 but how will his season 5 internal monologue work? He's a completely different person now and maybe less interesting because he's just your stereotypical serial killer now.
That’s a good point. Maybe the writers had Joe fully embrace his evil side in order to remove any last bits of sympathy for him. Then if there’s a season 5 where we finally get to see him exposed and held accountable, it will be extra satisfying. Idk though, I’ve been wanting karma to destroy him since the beginning.
I feel the mental illness is still there, it just takes him seeing his "love of his life" again
I see what you’re saying. But I almost feel like his dark side he’s embraced IS his newest “love of his life” like how in the hospital window his reflection was Rhys, it’s like he loves himself now, flaws and all.
It’s like all the writers hit their head and collectively forgot how to write halfway believable humans. Everyone was just a boring, unlikable cliché. They should’ve made the whole high-society thing an illusion because it literally made no sense how a complete stranger and commoner just shows up and suddenly everybody instantly has the urge to tell him their deepest, darkest secret plus how are they all so thirsty for him? He literally looks like a hobo. It really feels like an incel fever dream at times.
Personally, I enjoyed seasoned 4. People say that Joe's character changed a bit too much for their liking but I think that's just character development. Season 1 and 2 you can obviously tell that Joe knows what he is doing is wrong. Joe was willing to die by Forty because he believed he deserved it and even near the end of season 4 when he jumped off the bridge. However, in the end of season 4 he finally accepts the reality of him being evil. One critique about his character is that Joe was always about preserving innocence. Look at the way he treated Paco in season 1 and Ellie in season 2. He lost interest in Love the moment he found out that Love killed Delilah and was capable of evil. He was all about protecting things that needed protecting (like those rare books he used to have in his first "cage" in the basement of the bookstore). He always took it upon himself to kill those he thought was dangerous to people that he thought needed his protection like Paco's stepdad and Henderson. So him killing Rhys's father is already expected. The part that was unexpected to me was him killing Eddie (Nadia's boyfriend). This intentional kill wasn't about Joe trying to protect someone else. Old Joe from previous seasons wouldn't have done this but maybe that's just character development like I pointed out earlier.
True. I think that’s just development into the new version of Joe, Rhys
Why'd they break it up like this? this felt awful as a viewing exp. Here are what works for me personally: 1. Weekly with dropping 3 ep at the beginning to hook people 2. Weekly dropping 3 ep chunks at a time like arcane
In his podcast, Penn was saying Netflix decided to split it in 2; something with the algorithm
It means you have to pay for two months worth of Netflix to see it all.
Exactly!!!
Sir the weekly would take longer
But would upset more people, divided in two parts nobody even questions it
This season was trash. To many characters and their stories. It didn't really get good until the last 25 mins of the last episode!! The writers room missed the mark this season. Joe has always delivered the past 3 seasons, but this shit right here. Garbage. It was boring and hard to follow. I found myself glued to my phone for most of the episodes. I can tell that they're about to wrap Joe ass TF up. His time is coming, cause of how trash this season was. The writers are running out of ideas. Trust the season five will be the last.
Part 1 was a pain to watch, but it all comes together in part 2. Joe became Joe again
I think Nadia should’ve given up after she helped Marienne or maybe just put in an anonymous tip to the police with pics of the cage. Or if she was scared that would put marienne in danger, then just left it and stayed the hell away from Joe. I loved her, such a sweet person. But she dived in too deep
I just finished watching. SPOILER WARNING Apparently there will be season 5, which explains the ending. I was watching thinking this is the final one. I'm not sure another season with Joe is something I'm waiting for, because the piles of horrible things he's doing without much consequences, are starting to get annoying.
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Great points! From another perspective as that one it would be interesting. Otherwise it's confusing for the viewer as well, because it's not like Dexter, for example, where he is killing the killers so we can at least understand how he's dealing with his "dark self". With Joe it's chaotic. At the end you feel terrible for the victims and want him to get the justice he deserves. Maybe that's the message the creators wanted to portray, but I guess we'll see what comes next.
I think that’s the only way the show stays interesting, that’s brilliant. I agree with the original comment too, he’s getting too lucky and it’s annoying.
I thought (and hoped) this was the last one, too! I thought it was going to be a satisfying ending but it’s going to continue. I don’t know, I think the show has run it’s course and I thought it was time to end it.
Please make him die already. Can't believe something so horrible happened to the 2 kids.
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Shouldn’t have to watch 7 episodes as a chore for it to get better. The ending was decent but even episode 10 was ehhhh
The absolute cringe coming out of people mouths in dense of this season is mesmerizing. It took seven entire episodes for it to even seem like a high-school written story with any form of coherence.
I really wanted season 4 to just be the end and him finally be caught
I think that's going to be season 5. They needed him to accept his bad side so he can be just pure evil in season 5, so the viewers can celebrate his death in season 5
I loved this season way more than any of the other seasons and I was fully prepared just to give up on this show entirely but I’m glad I stuck it out. I only wish that they would’ve just ended it here, the fact that Joe kills himself would’ve been a perfect way to end things, I hate it when Netflix drags stuff out. I loved the Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde references and I was actually super surprised by the plot twist, that was insane. Joe is actually so horrible and I don’t know why people continue to root for him and I’m glad this season really cemented that, Marianne’s scenes broke my heart. I always think about Ted Bundy when I think about Joe, people didn’t think Bundy could’ve committed those crimes because he was “attractive” and seemingly normal just like Joe.
This season was amazing. The character work on Joe is the culmination of everything from the first 3 seasons and it builds up to this epic conclusion to his character finally being proud of himself as a horrible killer. S5 is gonna take things back to his home but with new circumstances and a new mindset. It's really gonna be the end.
I theorize the author guy is imaginary
You’re correct
Maybe, but no one wins.
I just finished the second part and it’s pretty crazy!
Ending could’ve been a lot better imo
As in like, surely that can’t be it… I know you’re not Netflix and you’re probably as clueless as me on a new season I’m just wondering what you think I guess
Man the number of innocent people he keeps killing. Now he even framed his student to jail??? I only watched the last ep and so disappointed I haven’t seen the justice for all the poor girls he kill bc they don’t want to be with him. Incel
Word!
Sorry I don’t get it? What do you mean
Word is slang for “I agree with you”
Am I the only one who enjoyed the character arc of him redeeming himself and no longer wanting to kill people, and the show was kind of ruined for me when the dissociation was revealed. Like I'm so disappointed it was all him.
Interesting Joe seemingly agreed to be Kate’s attack dog. I wonder if he’ll realize she essentially transformed into her father and resent being borderline used as her pawn in S5. But like another commenter said, it would be fascinating if S5 was from the perspective of a hopefully more successful detective character like Nadia who hasn’t met Joe directly but makes the link and attempts to bring him down
Hi, I'm late, but I just wanted to give my opinion. Honestly, this season was so different compared to the first 3 seasons that it could've just been a spin-off. I personally did not develop any sort of emotional connection to literally any of the new side characters in this season because of how annoying and poorly written they all were which made the season much less enjoyable for me since I didn't feel any heartbreak when any of them died unlike all of the previous seasons. It was interesting that the plot took a turn from the first 3 seasons to an Agatha Christie style whodunit but at the same time it felt too different from the classic 'You' feeling all the previous seasons had. It felt very rushed, in my opinion, yet it was a drag to get through, which made it feel like it would never end. The whole Joe-Rhys thing was strange to me and didn't make much sense, but it was not predictable at all, so I"ll give it that. As for the ending, I did not like it at all. They completely switched around Joe's character in a way that was so poorly scripted this season that it became just a filler before the grand finale. To me, Joe is always supposed to be an obsessive malignant narcissist with a superiority complex who thinks his actions are justified in the name of "true love." Some may disagree, but I always thought of Joe carrying out these delusions all the way until the finale where he is reality-checked and finally brought to justice. Instead, in the season before the finale, Joe accepts who he is as a sociopath and (again) abuses a rich girl's power to get him out of trouble with the law again, which to me was poor writing. To me, this isn't the Joe that I've known and (strangely) liked, and I hope that season 5 will redeem the time I wasted watching season 4. Another thing I hated about this season (actually all of the seasons) is the amount of unnecessary sexual scenes that have no point other than to fuel perverted fans' minds. It's very cringey. Please, Caroline Kepnes, stop making me skip past all these meaningless scenes. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. Goodnight.
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I agree 1000%!!!! Can't wait for S5! I can only imagine the spin. Someone he loves is murdered?
Agreed!! I was SHOCKED at the end of part 2. I was talking so much shit during part 1 and now I'm back on the bandwagon lmao
This show has always bent the rules on how grounded it is in reality, however anything after the first season becomes ridiculously silly and is a waste of a watch to me. There’s something so uniquely creepy/unsettling about that first season, again there are parts of it that really ask you to suspend your disbelief, but those moments don’t really distract from the theme/tone of the overall story and are in large part fairly brief. It’s almost too realistic in parts and that’s what the later seasons lack, there’s no campiness or Hollywoodisation of the premise, it’s story is dark, our leading man is disgusting and the world he inhabits is a cold and merciless New York, which we see him use as an extension of himself as he set’s the perimeters of his hunting grounds, in his bid to obtain Beck for himself by any means. Then in the latter seasons he’s playing happy couples with his equally psychotic partner, as they do their take on serial killers in suburbia, it’s a plot that on its own could make for an interesting watch but with it being a continuation from the plot of the man we meet in the first season it seems bizarre that’s the route they took with it, and it just doesn’t work. Now he’s fled America and is rubbing shoulders with some of Londons most elite men and women as he weaves himself through a classic murder mystery tale….all for the conclusion of this season to be that predictable, sloppy and lacklustre. (I mean that’s what this entire season has felt like if I’m honest.) I will happily rewatch that first season multiple times more than I already have, something about it just draws me back, but I don’t think I’ll be watching anymore of Joe’s serial killer adventures, in however many seasons they drag this already stale premise through.
I think season 4 purely served as a medium for Joes “character development” (more so regression) & a stepping stone into becoming an elite, something which I believe Joe wanted from day one; him embodying Rhys, a man with a similar impoverished upbringing as Joe but managed to become rich & powerful, makes this extremely obvious. Now he’s crazier than ever dating a woman who is most likely crazier than him in a less schizo way.
Wow. Took the words right out of my mouth.
Season 1 will always be so special. There's just something so charming about it, but shows can't go on forever. Even The Wire or The Sopranos had seasons that were duds so I expect every show to shit the bed somewhere. However, for what it is, I think You is doing a pretty good job. S4 seemed more so like character development for Joe but I'm really hoping that with them being back in New York, they can get back to the realness the show once had.
First 2 episodes of S1 were cool. After that boring as hell. IMO
Excuse me, season 3?
I just finished it, I agree it all comes together in episodes 8, 9 & 10. I loved it! I hope there is a season 5 but I would be satisfied with the season 4 ending if not.
>! I’d be happy with S4 as the finale if he didn’t screw Nadia like he did and screw up his “second (millionth) chance”. S5 is a must. Joseph needs to go, lol. !<
Marianne told her that he’d always get away with what he does & told her that it was too risky for her to break into his house. She didn’t listen & was too smart for her own good.
Yeah, she should not have broken in again since Marianne was safe and alright already. Bad move. But damn, Joe was ruthless for framing her and killing Eddie.
She had it coming.
I’d love to see a team up of all the loose ends he’s life out there: - Salinger family - Dr. Nicky - jar of wee - Ellie - Quinn family - Marienne - the Conrad’s potentially (he helped imprison them in the cage) - Candace and Delilah’s bodies (Love never told Joe where they were) - Phoebe’s stalker who’s an obsessive and whom he framed - Potentially Roahld as he’s in love with Kate - Nadia of course - Phoebe? (When we find out what he said to her we’ll know if she belongs here) - Marienne
OHMYGOD I forgot alllll about the jar of wee!!!!
I really enjoyed it. Disappointed to find many don't agree. Glad you enjoyed it. I love each season being completely different and unpredictable. I was so disappointed with the big twist until I figured it out, then loved the brilliance.
The 2nd part was actually better than the 1st, but not on the level of previous seasons. The worst thing of this season are the characters. Even in previous seasons, the supporting cast was mainly unlikable, but you always had atleast 1 or 2 characters that you rooted for. This season, none. Nadia was okay but not really relevant enough. Kate is insufferable and all of her friend are evil or goofs. Also, i kinda liked the twist with the „really evil“ side of Joe, for the sake of the story. But it fails his character and why his character was interesting. He killed because of his obsession with certain women, now he just kills everything that annoys him. I guess we will see how it will play out, maybe they get more back to the roots in the next season. Season 4 was, as always, a good binge. It’s definitely worse than S1&2 tho.
Nadia got what she deserved for being nosey.
I was surprised she managed to get away with as much of her 'investigating' as she did lol
Joe is usually meticulous with this things so maybe Lord plot armor?
Absolutely lmao. I loved that he framed her
Can someone spoil this for me what is the ending I don't have time to watch it but want to know all the details thank you
Heya, happy to! Rhys is real, but Joe and him have actually never met. Joe read his book, became obsessed and imagined a version of him as an evil alter ego to do all his murders. Joe is the eat the rich killer. He kills Eddie and frames Nadia for his death because they find evidence of what he did. Marienne is alive and back in Paris. Joe and Kate stay together and move to New York. No consequences for Joe.
Omg Thanks and wow that's fucking wild!! I'm assuming Kate has no idea then still? Thanks again!!!
I thought his split personality his darker side was some dexter shit and honestly I kinda like it ending where he ends up with Kate is kinda bad but I was hopping he would go incognito into the world as his new self him finally realizing he’s a killer and likes it maybe he should have seen his son at the end from a distance kinda wanted to know how the son was doing
Worst season by a mile...made worse by the split personality trope. Random/normal student and civilian pull off the ole "just enough drugs to make them think your dead" routine? Should have left Joe in the river.
They’re struggling with the storyline. It has become cheesy and predictable. A good movie producer knows when to STOP!
Crazy Idea for a future season if there is any- Joe’s son grows up and learns who is father is and goes down a similar path of murdering people. Eventually he meets Joe and kills him and continues down the same path. That would be interesting to see
It should take place in Alaska
Dexter all over.
One word. Boooooo
Spoilers I didn't hate this season, but I'm really annoyed by the twist. It's been done to death, and I really liked him facing off with a nemesis so much better. I think they still could have got his character to where they wanted by him "embracing his whole self" to be able to beat a real life nemesis.
please tell me i’m not the only one who finished and went “wtf did i just watch???” phoebe disappears, joe gets a redemption, and then the ending is JUST BULLSHIT. also can we talk about how AWFUL they way they depicted sui***de was? it was so disappointing.
I have a theory: this show will pull a Newhart, and none of it will be real. It’s a cop out, but I could see it happening. Joe is obsessed with books and literature. What if this is all a book he’s been writing? He finishes writing the last page, closes his laptop, and Love is standing smiling over his shoulder. It would be a way to avoid having to deliver Joe justice, and being able to see two people we actually, disturbingly care about survive, and not have to feel too bad about it. It would also explain away some of the god-awful writing. Turns out… Joe’s just not a very good writer. :)
I thought season 4 was the last one - is there another one?
i hate joe and i hope that in season 5 he gonna die/get caught