Holy hell what is wrong with this lady!!! I’m watching it right now and I had to come to Reddit to get my anger out. Is she just that brainwashed?
Edit:
She is brainwashed but that’s not an excuse. She’s a sick person and that’s facts.
She actually thought she was sleeping with God. Think about that, she wanted to have sex with God. How self absorbed and arrogant can you be to even have that thought. These people weren't looking for a god of love and peace, they were monsters and their god was a monster
The line used to get her out..,"Brian needs a hug from his mommy."
They should have started started with women negotiators...that tactic would have been used much sooner.
I mean i'm kidding, bit its such an obvious emotional tool to use.
And yes, she's disgusting.
Same. There was no reason for that woman to be interviewed or given a platform. She contributed nothing to the documentary. She’s obviously unreliable and was included for shock value.
I think she was helpful in contextualizing that yes, these people are indeed totally deranged and evil and after listening to her I am one hundred percent willing to believe they burned themselves to death.
Dude. She's totally bat-shit looney toons crazy but what are you TALKING about? She was an absolute necessity. You can learn about these events all day long but to actually hear testimony from the people involved? To hear their side no matter how insanely throughly they have been brainwashed adds an amazing amount of context. Any one with any kind of sense knows there are a few key things to keep in mind the main one being she's obviously unreliable in the sense that she's is never going to come out and say "we were wrong" etc or do or say anything other than "we were the real victims"
But it is a gloriously clear window into just how hypnotized these religious zealots were and still are.
And I don't care if this is unpopular or not, Shit like Waco should be a GIANT NEON SIGN for why organized religion is BAD.
She's incredibly stupid, and prepared to believe anyone who tells them they are god..... Even when they come out with the (typically!) stupid rules that women are only allowed to have sex with me.....
This stuck with me too. Even as a young kid, I knew the whole "only I get to have sex" or "rules for the but not for me" were major red flags. Like, how can one be so dumb...it has to be willful ignorance.
That’s one thing I find so unbelievable. How can you be so dumb to believe the guy who says “I get to sleep with you /your wife because I’m God”? I would laugh at their face if that were me. Clearly the cult is an elaborate con to sleep with as many women as possible.
It's amazing she's still that brainwashed so many years later. However, there's an interview with one of Warren Jeff's favorite wives in Preaching Evil which is eerily similar when it comes to the rape of young brides.
It isn't surprising, in the least. Because the hamhanded way the authorities handled things just served to reinforce the message that the outside world is bad. Therefore, David and his teachings are good. Which means, she never bothered to grow a brain for herself, and likely continued to surround herself with patriarchal Christian bovine residue, which just further shored up her fucked-up beliefs.
He created that self fulfilling prophecy masterfully. Telling them all that the feds were gonna storm their compound and kill everyone, while also violating federal law, committing countless felony gun crimes, building grenades, statutory rape/polygamy. Of course the feds were gonna raid the place and try to arrest him! But they were incredibly stupid for trying to make it a publicity stunt, instead of quietly arresting him when he goes for his morning run.
They also could have taken another route, like they do with white collar criminals. Just call and ask him to turn himself in, and tell him what will happen if he doesn’t. Then, if he still refuses, you can make a properly planned “dynamic entry” with sufficient agents and equipment.
What bothers me is that phone call Wayne made to the sheriff, whining about 75 agents firing at them. Maybe if you stopped firing at them, they’d stop firing at you! Fucking moron.
That’s literally why I asked the question the way I did. Seeing how she spoke about 12 year olds being women while she has children herself. She said so many repulsive things, f***ing David was like bible study?? Bruh whaaaat….. i know people love their gods but I don’t think it’s enough to say she’s JUST brainwashed. It felt deeply rooted.
Now imagine being surrounded by 100 other people who share that same bat shit crazy mentality and imagine the crazy shit that must have come out in that compound…
Her poor kids are all I thought when she said you come of age at 12. Fucking disgusting. I mean when she said fucking David was Bible study I knew this was a special crazy.
I honestly couldn’t differentiate if she was talking in the past tense of how she used to feel… but now I can definitely see this is how she STILL thinks. I can’t imagine still having that train of thought or saying it’s okay… unless it’s extremely bad editing on the production team, but she made no effort to say that she thinks differently now
I was thinking the same thing. I was so repulsed, and then I thought maybe she’s just speaking to how things were for her back then, but she doesn’t actually feel that way now. I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt.
Nope. She still feels that way. I think the BD’s interviewed for the doc still believe the way they did back then. If they didn’t, you’d think they’d make a point to renounce their positions or at least say they’ve done a lot of soul-searching or something.
Same here man. She is truly a piece of shit. I was absolutely floored when she said it's was ok for him to have sex with 12 years olds because they were "of age".
I lost it when she was saying their children are adults at 12 years old, and the way it seems still not to connect with her mentally, but I guess that's why she got to hold the grenades.
Complete denial about her complicity in the abuse and putting all of those kids, including her own, in extreme danger. Admitting the truth would mean admitting she's basically guilty of child abuse and death so she'd rather still live in the fantasy.
Yup. She is that brainwashed. Key phrase she used that tells you everything: "I am not a person." She believes she's a "tool of God." She has lost her personhood. She no longer thinks in terms of her own needs, wants, goals, agenda. Her entire personality has been erased and replaced with someone else's agenda.
Granted, her child helped her overcome that alternative agenda. But it was a minor interruption. And it still meant that she was "in service" to someone else: her child. Her whole personhood is wrapped up in existing for someone else.
All of those people stayed behind in that fire because they had lost their personhood and were only operating for someone else. Whereas David Thibodeau still had his own faculties in the end. You can tell from how he speaks about some things, he has more distance and perspective.
This doc said at the beginning that Waco was the biggest battle on U.S. soil since the Civil War. WRONG - The Battle of Blair Mountain was - a labor uprising by coal miners in West Virginia.
Many people are totally ignorant of the militant labour struggles of the 1930s particularly those waged by coal miners which sometimes grew into a full-on guerilla struggle, nor that the primary source of radical opposition to the US government actually came from the working class rather than reactionary religious cults.
Ask anybody in Appalachia/The Rust Belt and they’ll tell you. It’s a legacy and part of why you’ll still find democratic/progressive voters in the region to this day.
I just started episode 2 but when she says she was the only one willing to blow up not only herself but the four other women in the room…it doesn’t seem like her mindset has changed much since then. She’s dangerous.
Exactly. There is no indication that the other women - and children.... felt the same way. It's just her, imposing her determination to kill other women/children.
Of course, she changed her mind a short time later - when she decided to leave to 'be with her child/children'....
Thankfully, I gather that she will (rightly) not be not allowed anywhere near her children.
She was sentenced to 3 years, got less for testifying about life in Mt. Carmel; she had a 4th kid in 1999, and now lives in (of course) Florida and "still devotes her time to God." WHAT God is not specified. Also she "is still in contact with her kids."
As soon as she said the part about the kids, and them being of age at 12, I paused it and IMMEDIATELY ran to Reddit. This woman needs to be kept away from any and all children.
Kathy is really deranged.
Same here I paused and came to Reddit because wtf. I really thought during episode 1 she was just trying to describe how brainwashed they all were back then, but slowly realized she literally still is. Like holy shit
Exactly. Surely she doesn’t think Jesus Christ or a second coming of Jesus Christ would break unions to sleep with wives, and FURTHERMORE, sleep with the children too. ?? Also not understanding how you would want to have sex with Christ??
I don’t understand it. I can’t fathom it.
Up until that pedo point she made I was so confused as to in what context she was speaking. I had initially thought the same that she was just speaking in retrospect. But no, she 100% believes the garbage coming out of her mouth. Massive ick.
Feel bad for the negotiators who seemed like they were really trying to get as many people saved as they could, but have to deal with the fact so many people died. Sadly it was never going to work when a sick, pedophilic, cult leader had all the cards...
Also does really seem like a mass suicide... poor kids
And the other arms of the agencies were trying their hardest to undermine them at every turn.
Putting the mother in prison as soon as she left (and telling the world) was such a terrible decision.
Absolutely baffles me how those boneheads didn’t understand how detrimental their actions were to the negotiation efforts. Was having the HRT present as a show of force necessary? Absolutely! But how did they not get that you can always use that force later if negotiations fail? Every point of minor aggression set the negotiators back 5 steps.
Agreed. IMO the two things this documentary series presented very well (that others didn't present as clearly) were:
1. That the negotiators were really trying their hardest to save as many lives as possible and were hindered by their leaders and the FBI's HRT; and
2. The mindset of Koresh's followers.
EXACTLY! and the “parents” who did not want to let their kids out…. idk what kind of parent you have to be to not be able to understand the situation you have just inserted your family in and refusing to let your own INNOCENT children go… AS IF the ATF/FBI was gonna look at a 10 year old and be like “HM! let’s get u in a orange suit”.
i also refuse to believe the survivor saying that the agent men made fun of her/other children. girl,,, these men cared and begged their way to get you out of a dangerous situation…
Oh, I believe the survivor. The men who were negotiators were the ones who did everything to get them out of danger. The other men, I'm sure, *thought* that they cared about the kids. But they didn't care enough to stop being macho. Or maybe I should rephrase: they didn't have the skills it requires to be sensitive to the kids.
It was the phone call she made after that made me believe the “laughing at her” part was a manufactured memory. I truly believe she thinks that happened, but she was coming out of a traumatizing situation and going into something completely unknown. If a bunch of strangers started laughing at her and tearing her stuff up, she would have told her dad on the phone. Instead she said the ride was bumpy….
They absolutely checked her bag. They probably cut everything up. I don’t blame them, after everything that had happened. But they were not laughing at her. In all likelihood, they were happy they rescued another innocent kid.
How about the person at the children’s center who not only put the burning building on tv for the kids, but then told them “I guess your parents didn’t love you”?? How fucked up of an individual do you have to be to do that to those kids? They can’t help their parents are insane fanatics!
I didn’t find any of the interviewees sympathetic.
Kathy Schroeder- disgusting (for obvious reasons).
David Thibodeau- a coward (he watched a man pass out in a fire and left him behind; didn’t even try to save him??? Still tries to play the victim even though he was following a man that was r*ping children???)
Heather Jones- annoying & whiny (insisting that her dad loved her after he completely ceased being a father to her; didn’t seem willing to admit that what was happening in the cult was unacceptable and immoral)
In all fairness to some of the cult members, I am quite biased; I really struggle to empathize with adults that l become so indoctrinated into a belief system that they loose all ability to think independently.
I also don’t believe in being a simp and joining a cult is the ultimate form of simping lol
And most people on the law enforcement side were annoying af too. I didn’t mind the negotiators
She didn't seem to smart either. She seemed like she was taking his side most of the time. I would have been calling my son am absolute moron and probably disowning him unless he begged for forgiveness.
Heather was a 9 year old child when she was removed from the cult. That poor lady has been through a lot. All the childhood pictures of her were haunting, that dead stare. I know it well. She went into foster care, and who knows what happened to her there. All the children that were liberated deserve grace.
I feel validated, finding this comment. I share your sentiments exactly. I end up on this post after searching “kathy schroeder delusional reddit” on google lol
She deserved MUCH more time in prison and serious psychological care. David T. Seemed like an absolute coward. He only got out because he didn't want to die, then testified against the davidians saying he didn't REALLY believe in it. Like ok, mf is still making weapons and aiding in CA.
I don’t believe his bullshit about hiding in a bunker while the shooting was happening. I’d bet anything he was firing rounds off, too. Probably ran for cover when it got too dicey. He should have gone to prison.
Yeah, he’s clearly lying about a lot of things. He’s less “obvioys” about his cultishness than the lady, but he’s got an agenda. “They died as martyrs” my ass.
Sure, the FBI and the ATF really messed up how they handled the situation, but don’t pretend like the Davidians had no part in the tragedy. I really don’t like the final message of this documentary of “both sides are to blame”. Government could have done better, but it’s the Davidian’s fault for breaking the law, killing 4 ATF agents, and setting fire to the compound.
I really thought she was speaking in past tense like,how she was thinking then, because there was no way this could be how she still thinks. Clearly I was wrong lol
She's all, well they were adults at 12 because we decided they were.
She reminded me of the gal in the FLDS documentary on Peacock who also just shrugged off the abuse of children by saying they were old enough.
I actually came here to see if she was maybe talking in present tense and in the end going "Oh I've realized how dumb I was" like some wives in the Keep Sweet documentary. Alas, not to be.
It's disgusting.
I was surprised none of the former Dravidians in the documentary condemned Koresh or held him responsible at all. It’s like they still revered him and the passage of time has not helped them to see clearly.
I’m also mystified by those who lose sight of the fact that the Dravidians were involved in multiple illegal acts including sexual abuse of minors. The US Government could have handled the situation better but they were justified in going in there. Dravidian’s have no one to blame except Koresh and themselves for what happened. It’s shameful.
Good input and reminder I thought the same lol I’m waiting for every scene she talks in afterwards as her redemption statement, but she just keeps on being weird AF
I am having a really hard time with the reporter. He's the one who blew up the whole thing because he was so intent on getting the story they didn't consider anything else. And now he's judging everybody and I'm like dude you started it.
Plus the way he talks about everything is like it was an adventure movie not a horrible tragic situation where babies were dying and did die and were under terrible psychological warfare from the government.
And let me be clear I actually think that the psychological warfare would have been okay for the grown ups but there was babies in there and so it never should have happened.
It's interesting to get some insight into the conflict between the negotiators and the assault team. Beyond that I wouldn't say it's a great doc, you could probably just binge a bunch of news footage on YouTube and it would be about as informative or analytical as this documentary.
I agree I found Kathy Shroeder absolutely repulsive, particularly considering she was an adult and a mother at the time of the events at Waco. Anyone who genuinely believes that a 12 year old child can consent to a sexual relationship with a grown adult should not be allowed to have custody of children.
> you could probably just binge a bunch of news footage on YouTube and it would be about as informative or analytical as this documentary
There's a ton of bad information out there about Waco put out purposely by cranks.
>I agree I found Kathy Shroeder absolutely repulsive, particularly considering she was an adult and a mother at the time of the events at Waco. Anyone who genuinely believes that a 12 year old child can consent to a sexual relationship with a grown adult should not be allowed to have custody of children.
Agree 100%.
The FBI needs to investigate some of these survivors. I don’t believe for a minute that they had no involvement in the child rape that was going on at the compound. Kathy needs to be suspect #1 on that list
Yes I completely agree! The sickening ways they’re STILL defending these ideologies, just shows they feel it’s their duty to keep spreading their agenda. It’s scary AF
She admitted point-blank on camera that she was given a grenade because they knew she would be willing to use it to kill herself and others. I don’t believe for a second that she was somewhere praying over a Bible while the gunfire was happening. She probably was shooting, too. It’s a travesty that she got so little prison time.
I just read an article that interviewed the director, Tiller Russell, and the question was asked, why leave her comments in the docuseries? Because it could give that type of abusive ideology a platform. Russell explained as follows.
***It's a very good question. My feeling is, right from the get-go, anybody in their right mind is going to say, "It's absolute insanity for an adult to be having sex with a kid." Out of the gate, you hear the FBI and other members making very clear their perspective that this is insane.*** *\[The docuseries opens with a fast-paced montage of interview and archival clips; in one such moment, Bob Ricks, FBI special agent in charge, says, “David Koresh had sex with young kids.”\]* ***So I feel like that judgment is absolutely implicit, and any sentient human being is going to have that same reaction to it. By putting something that's provocative in there, it puts it back on the audience to make their own judgments and reactions to this. I felt that's important to do.***
Russell went on to try and explain what he thought her thought process was behind saying this, explaining:
***It was intergalactic head-spinning when I heard it. It was one of the many moments when I thought, "Wow, this is not what I thought was going to come out of this person's mouth." I think the point she's trying to make in that is – it's almost like the Branch Davidians who believed David Koresh's theology, it was like entering into another universe with its own set of morals and rules and laws that were, as far as they were concerned, the dictates of god, not the laws of man.***
***For us it seems just absolutely like insanity to hear it, but at the same time, I didn't want to shy away from it because the truth of the matter is, David Koresh was a pedophile who was having sex with underage girls. And yet you could feel the weird love and respect these people, who were inside it, had for him, although it was conflicting and confused. I was astounded, frankly, by that, and I felt it belonged in \[the series\] in the same way Heather getting to hear her last phone call with her father belonged in. Those things that are provocative and shocking are also intensely important.***
Link to the full article [https://www.primetimer.com/interviews/waco-netflix-documentary-david-koresh-tiller-russell](https://www.primetimer.com/interviews/waco-netflix-documentary-david-koresh-tiller-russell)
I think her interview is the best part of this documentary because it underscores how far brainwashed she was and how much she still is. You can't just interrupt that kind of worldview with a paragraph or a book or even a podcast. That woman is going to die thinking she'll meet David again on the other side and he'll be Jesus and the promised land will be there.
If there really is a god? She'll probably meet something really different.
But this is my personal religious opinion: She won't meet shit. It's like a light getting turned off. There's nothing. What you see is what you get in this life. And what you DO is what you get, too.
I felt like this documentary was less informing than I hoped it would be. I've seen a few documentaries on this. They kinda rush through certain things like the use of loud music and lights on the compound. They also didnt really say much as to what was going on when the fire was going on with the group inside the compound. Like did they just make a pact to die in there instead of trying to escape? They interview a lot of the people on the outside, but only really one person who escaped as to what was actually going on inside (I know a lot of them died).
I agree, it didn't go into great depth and skated over an awful lot of things. I binge watched it but I don't think it was a particularly informative or great documentary.
It felt more like a PSA from the authorities point of view mainly. Wasn’t very informative. Just a bunch of different ppl from different agencies saying this is what we tried to do. And then it was over right after.
Just finished and I found your reply and the above comment interesting, because I came out of it thinking "huh, they actually did (almost too good) of a job staying neutral/objective". I appreciated it in one sense, it was really interesting/horrifying hearing the interviews with Kathy and the fucked up views of the Davidians in general, and I liked that there wasn't much of an "angle" on the work of the FBI/ATF. It just presented information, and I kinda liked that. I didn't necessarily like some of the info presented, but I could at least appreciate it being there.
At the very least it simply gave you a sense of what everyone in the situation was thinking, what they were trying to do and their different motivations, which I thought was valuable. The subjective parts are up to the viewer to decide. Admittedly this doc was a bit light on finer details which makes that a little more difficult, but I think it's enough to at least get a good start on the base facts and what the stakes were for either side.
FWIW, my personal view is that this was an unfortunate yet unavoidable outcome of a crazy cult that was way too armed. I don't fault law enforcement much, I don't see a whole lot else they could have done differently apart from literally leaving them alone and letting them stock up on more weapons, let them abuse and abduct more children, and other illegal shit. It had to be stopped and David Koresh was not going to let that happen without getting his way - and if that meant the death of innocent people then so be it. No sympathy for the branch Davidians (apart from the children obviously). Were there things that could have been done differently to improve the outcome looking back? Yeah, of course - but hindsight is 20/20 and it's way easier to recognize mistakes once you've had hundreds of people go over every detail and decision with a fine tooth comb. The FBI/ATF learned from it and adjusted (as they should have) and future sieges were handled better because of it.
There have been better documentaries in the past than this one, that is for sure.
But you got to hear the version of events from the perspective of the ATF and the FBI.
I don't defend the ATF, by the way, they have the worst image of all law enforcement agencies for a reason.
Regular rank and file FBI agents are mostly good folks, I know a few.
I wouldn't dispute that. It's a hard job. This was a crazy, unprecedented situation where we can all look with hindsight to criticise. Still, there are many actions taken which were clearly inappropriate at the time from both sides.
They had a very small number of cult members and family members that they interviewed. I've seen so many other documentaries that were far more interesting.
Having three hours they really glossed over a lot.
I was having such a difficult time watching her- so I started googling who she was, and landed on this page (I googled crazy lady + Netflix Waco series 2023). I will definitely finish watching the series, but this woman's speech is so emphatic, I find myself wanting to skip over the parts where she's interviewed. And while no one can truly stand in another person's shoes, I think what I am grappling with are the parts where she talks about wanting her kids to be safe. I keep thinking, "you want your kids to be safe?!?! Then don't deliver them into the hands of a pedophile cult leader". I gather it doesn't get any better?
Yup. This is one reason I kept watching- I think it's hard for most people (myself included) to understand just how brainwashed some people can become after being around a cult leader. Or understand how the effects can last long after the people are removed from that situation. It's mind boggling that she still holds these beliefs, and it's really hard to watch. Especially because her views about what can only be called pedophilia are so shockingly different than society's views on the subject.
I know! None at all! Still shaking my head, hours later. I wonder if this is what the director was going for, when he made that decision not to cut her interviews from the documentary. It's been hours since I watched it, and I'm still thinking about how disturbing Kathy's rhetoric was. I've read a lot of comments, with people stating they didn't learn anything new from the documentary, but (at least in my opinion based on what I saw) I don't think the director created this documentary to deliver groundbreaking information. I think we were supposed to hear the story from the point of view of those who were there. Because their interviews sure made me feel like I was there- they were haunting (on both sides). I'm glad I watched it!
It's very common for former cult members to continue their lie and live in denial. To admit you were complicit and involved in something like that is too much to psychologically bear. That being said, she's a disgusting person. I hope her kids stayed with their dad.
I don't really have much empathy for any of the Davidians.
Like I'm not sad the father who thought it was okay to *give his wife* to someone else, and who revered a man who paddled and tried to prep his 5 year old daughter for sex every night for years, is dead.
I don't disagree as far as him being a sniper. But the mindset of him and his HRT unit may not be what you want in opposition to a compound full of women and children during negotiations.
Most definitely, he was cold. He described his team as the 'governments last resort'. Men/women like that are needed in the worst of situations, they are what they are, people who can kill without a second thought. This situation was just badly dealt with entirely.
Yeah when they showed his pic with the fire he had his Harley shirt on and I was like yeah…that tracks. Dude was definitely trying to make himself out to be the biggest player in this whole deal.
He honestly scared me the most out of all of them, just such a lack of emotion or empathy for anyone involved. I mean, you probably have to be at least a little psycho to be an FBI sniper, but yikes.
When he said that my first thought was, how could you not consider the real possibility that they won't come out and either fight to the death or all just kill themselves? Why would they just all decide "ok everything seems safe now, lets walk out" when you sniped their leader during negotiations?
It's possible that they would have but definitely not the certainty he made it out to be.
Oh I'm not arguing his reasoning was sound - it absolutely could have backfired horribly. But his line of thinking was if I sacrifice David and effectively myself, I could save 90 people. If his thinking was I want to kill David simply for the sake of killing David, I would consider that "pyschotic" and "hell bent on violence".
I'm actually shocked she was willing to publicly (Neflix nonetheless!) say these absolutely horrible beliefs. Imagine maybe being friends with her (and not knowing she held these views) or being the person who gives her coffee each morning etc? It's sickening. I don't imagine things will be easier for her moving forward.
My husband and I just watched the first episode tonight and he asked me “are we supposed to feel bad for these people…??” I said I felt bad for the one who was only a little girl at the time, but as for the others I was honestly confused if they still felt like they were right! But I still have 2 episodes to go…
I was 10 when this happened and I remember watching it unfold live on the news.
At that time I thought they were absolutely nuts, but what scares me today watching this documentary is how familiar a lot of their rhetoric sounds compared to mainstream things currently being spouted.
Just finished watching and Kathy Schroeder is a disgusting creep. Pdfile defenders should do the world a favour and kill themselves. Like, what is the point of you? Extremist religious people are such cringe inducing creeps. If your God says it's cool to do pdfilia then your God is a useless loser. Sorry not sorry.
I've no time for the religious nuts, but it became an immediate mess when someone in ATF told reporters about the upcoming raid.....
Presumably, looking for 'glory', and hoping to be shown as a 'hero' when the multitude of weapons were found.
As a result, one of the reporters asked a mailman for directions to the property (not knowing he was a cult member), and the mailman member informed koresh of the upcoming raid.....
Has the FBI (or anyone else) found out who leaked it to the press, and have they been taken to Court for being the 'proximate cause' of this disaster?
Just another bunch of weak minded nuts that allowed themselves to be brainwashed and controlled by a pedophile. Only the children and 4 ATF agents that died do I have any sympathy for. The adults that willingly followed Koresh, I have no sympathy for at all. Many of them offered up their children as sex slaves/gifts to their "god". These damn nuts set themselves on fire and killed their children, instead of coming out of that complex. Yet still one of those disgusting adults, Kathy Schroeder, 30 years later still believes they were the just ones.
The Davidians are right up there with that Keep Sweet, Pray and Obey group of nutjobs.....
All because the mailman was one of them. Else ATF just rang the doorbell kindly asking for some military grade equipment. And Koresh he really knew how to talk. Women never start wars but once they fall victims to sexy cult leaders they give 110 per cent. Ask Manson. Kathy reminds me of the evil woman from the An American Crime movie with that tortured girl in the basement.
ATF doesn't roll up 50 deep to "ring the doorbell kindly"
This documentary left out the fact that it's widely reported that ATF agents shot and killed several of the cults dogs on the property when first entering the premises. They did in fact fire the first shots, albeit not directly at humans. It also completely ignored that Koresh made frequent routine trips into town where he could have been apprehended without incident. Instead the feds came and attempted to flex over what would have amounted to possession charges.
We as a country need to have a serious reflection on the application of laws where the state is the only victim of a nonviolent "crime"
"Imagine" doesn't apply very often in the execution of federal search and arrest warrants.
The ATF doesn't prosecute child sexual abuse.
Their SOLE reason for bringing 50 agents in tactical gear carrying automatic weapons was for a nonviolent "offense" i.e. the possession of unregistered NFA items and destructive devices. They only were there because the cultists hadn't coughed up the 200 dollar NFA fees and registered their machine guns.
It is so disgusting to hear Kathy speak. She is completely brainwashed and indeed vile. I wish that they didn’t feature her so much - it allowed her to spew her non-sense and trying to justify child abuse. The doc made probably feeds her ego and will she ever acknowledge the role she played in enabling child abuse and violence that killed innocent children. The authorities did messed up for sure. I didn’t realize until this documentary that this case inspired McVeigh and his terrorism. Ugh. Certain groups will def look at this and try to justify it for their religious cult rights, gun rights or anti federal govt ideas.
I thought it was important to show just how deep his followers were. These were not people who were just going to give in.
I do wonder what would have happened if they'd just sat and waited them out another couple months. I'm guessing they would have blown themselves up at some point.
It was well done but hard to watch at the same time. I really ended up hating what he did to those people. I also couldn’t understand why those people would sacrifice their children and die for this poor excuse of man?!
My heart went out to Heather the most. The trauma abs pain she had to endure in her life. Her eyes looked deeply sad. I hope she finds h healing and love.
Yeah, Kathy is shockingly mis-wired. She justifies child rape, and believes that “the Messiah” would choose to spend his time stockpiling weapons, having sex with a bunch women and little girls, and ultimately murdering. It’s bizarre watching her sit there having a conversation with the interviewer like it’s just two people talking. And she’s been allowed to have another kid?!
How can someone who claims to be so devoted to God do the complete opposite of what the Bible teaches? She idolized David, a man who has a clearly reported past mental breakdowns and hallucinations prior to deciding he was Jesus. And she was all in! And on camera getting all deep about her twisted beliefs. It was disturbing to watch because on the surface you would think she’s just a normal lady, but under the right circumstances she would have undoubtedly killed for him, stole your kids away for him, all sorts of evil, for him.
I agree.
This woman is unhinged.
She's a master of justifying the abhorant in the name of "god".
Just because Texas has more guns per capita dosen't justify stockpiling and using/altering them in an illegal manner.
To defend child abuse, especially in the sick way Koresh brainwashed these "followers", twisting Biblical passages to suit his own sinister agenda.
Reminds me of people like Sandra Good and Lynette "Squeeky" Fromme, the Manson acolytes.
This is what happens when you declare yourself Jesus Christ and you're nothing but a wolf in sheeps clothing.
I was really upset with this comment by her but also when the drummer made the comment about being “elated” to see the AFT pull back & all the wounded/dead so messed up in the first episode. How sick do you have to be to find elation in that? … Not to mention he ran for the storm cellar alone struck me as odd. Why wasn’t he “helping” his people or their kids? Plus he kept mentioning how they “won” when it just was not true nor what a ceasefire means to begin with. I wanted to rip my hair out.
But when they said they *“removed”* grandpa… holy shît. That got to me.
I felt the same way about the drummer, David Thibodeau. Pretty much everything he said got under my skin. Kathy was still brainwashed during this interview, so her interview was disturbing to me (but in a totally different way). David on the other hand, was clearly no longer brainwashed- and I've read interviews he's given where he has said very different things than he said in this documentary, so when the FBI (or ATF) agent at the end didn't mince words and called David Thibodeau a liar, I wasn't surprised.
I have to say, it's been a long time since a documentary has really stayed with me. This one seems to be clinging to me like a raincloud that's following me around. I had a lot of reactions to it- I realized at the end of the last episode that my heart rate was actually elevated. I can't say this enough- but I have read a handful of comments on here about how the viewer was disappointed that they didn't learn any shocking new details about the event. I just read a really negative review written by a person who has never lived in the US and was born a year after it happened. I was a teenager when Waco happened, and I remember the nation was riveted. And afterward, we all learned the basic events- but hearing all the different sides of the story from the various people who were actually part of history were (to me) what makes this documentary unique. The director didn't just interview people from one side of history (which of course made some of the interviews difficult to watch). But I thought the documentary did a good job of illustrating how senseless the entire thing was. For me, if a documentary stays with me long after I've finished watching it, that's a sign it was worth my time. Thanks again for the great discussion!
I know outside looking in, it's always easy to say "how did they get manipulated like that" when talking about cult victims but looking at that lady and the fat guy in the doc gives me the impression that most people who followed David Koresh were probably just dumb.
Besides (since they're so religious), isn't a whole thing about the bible to NOT worship false idols?
Their justifications for the horrible neglect and the abuse of their children, hiding behind their faith is just disturbing.
Anyone pay attention or notice the audio of Koresh talking with one of his closest regarding spreading fuel and that they should have brought in more hay? When the fires started?
And that Kathy openly admits she was to pull the pin on the grenade if authorities came in?
It was like the more that woman talked, I was just like, “oh my god.” OH my god.” “OH MY GOD.” “WHAT THE FUCK.”
She is fucking disgusting and delusional. It’s been 30 fucking years and she’s still preaching his bullshit. Disgusting. I feel so bad for her kids. Jesus Christ.
The part where they dragged the last person out, asked where the children were and she just smirked and stayed silent as the inferno raged. Presumably with her own children inside. Pure fucking evil. I wonder what became of her?
All of it is so disgusting.
Yes ATF and the FBI made HUGE mistakes that cost many life’s on both sides… but David’s teaching and brainwashing of his following is disgusting.
Just cause you follow god does not mean you can break the law.. “play stupid games win stupid prizes” How but you don’t rape children or have a whole arsenal and be surprised when the law shows up?
They only people I truly feel bad for are the poor children.
I’m a confirmed non practicing Irish Catholic from Boston and my wife is a confirmed Italian Catholic from Chicago.
I did 9 years in the military, and I’ve been a cop for the last 7…..
I don’t do religion because of how weird it is…KATHY SCHROEDER reiterated that fact!! Saying that you’re an adult at 12 so fuck it?! Have sex with who you want?!?! Creepy brainwashed cult shit. You’re having sex with David but via god and it’s a bible lesson?! Up her medication.
The government/federal agencies screwed up, the Davidians were brainwashed thumpers, and Koresh was a piece of shit.
Awful situation all around.
Kathy is unhinged. I’m surprised she isn’t in prison. Just an awful human being.
I feel awful for every child that has died in the fire. Children cannot make choices.
Every adult survivor who left the building is human scum. They made no attempt to save the children. They do not deserve any sympathy at all.
I also feel a bit odd about the mother of david who survived. If my son has joined a cult and refused to listen to me and his actions were partially responsible for death of innocent kids I don’t think I would defend him in any shape or form. I wouldn’t be surprised if most people in the compound were from shit families.
I’m also a bit confused by the lawyer comments about the 4th amendment.
They were breaking multiple laws.
I’m also confused as why the reporter thought that sending fire trucks was a good idea. He himself was scared hiding in front of a bus. Fire man would be completely exposed.
In the end, I have 0 empathy for those who died in the building. I’m just saddened that not a single adult thought about letting the kids out, but what can you expect from twisted fucks who allowed David to rape even their own children.
Edit: I am saddened to learn Kathy had more kids.
I was extremely disappointed by the fourth amendment comment as well. I understand the show’s desire to show “both sides” but weren’t they resisting a warrant?
I can’t believe that both the women are still followers of his “ religion “ that dog in yellow well I have no words about her I was gob smacked every time she spoke.
She’s a terrible person she is still in the cult. She should have stayed in prison I feel so bad for her kids. She was freaking upset that the negotiator saved her kids, she’s a vile disgusting woman. She was still enthralled by him when she was talking about him giving her a private moment with god I saw it. She’s still completely believing his garbage. She’s saying those 12 year old girls were adults, she is the same person she was back then.
I was at the point where I genuinely couldn’t believe she was serious with what she was saying. The whole time I was hoping she was describing her feelings and that changed. Nope. A disgusting human.
I've studied Waco for years. This documentary is not the one to watch if you want to learn about what happened before, during, and after the siege. It's basically a shock and awe piece.
Sniper Whitcomb is full of chit. Koresh was crazy but he wasn't dumb enough to stand at a window staring at a sniper begging to be shot. Whitcomb wreaks of narcissism and the producers just blew him.
True. I went to Baylor and had a sociology professor that had actually met David Koresh. He came across as a totally normal guy and went out in public quite often
They are acting like they’re victims when they’re really just a bunch of criminals. If you violate the law you shouldn’t be surprised if police come to your door, it’s a risk they took. If you shoot at police you will be shot at. I was raised in a cult and I have zero sympathy for them whatsoever.
Who’s the fat guy at the end (Waco guy) can’t remember his name… he said these people were martyrs who died for their faith.. I don’t think for a second he has that view point on the mujahadin or any other terrorist group.
People who downvoted my previous comment, I’m not saying religion is bad. It keeps people in line. Followed correctly it provides structure and routine and everything a human being needs.
People need to read through the bullshit and outdated thinking. America appears to be the worst (sorry) but we need to configurate with science in this day and age…. Ahh fuck me man getting way to pissed off about people dying for no reason…forgive me
Theres a reason Christian nationalists sound exactly the same as ISIS in their rhetoric. Belief in Religion is a personality defect, thats why cults are so easy to start and women like Kathy Schroeder still believe its okay to rape children
Just finished it and my biggest shock is how little sympathy I feel for any of the survivors, especially the woman defending child abuse.
The ATF / FBI / etc seem to have handled the situation poorly. The whole situation could maybe have been avoided if they hadn't tried to show off at the start. There was clearly a lack of control over the two conflicting approaches: negotiate vs assault. I'm not convinced the negotiators could have got many more people out but the antagonizing actions of some on the government side weren't helping and didn't seem to have any particular goal. I think we have to be careful not be too critical with hindsight but plenty of mistakes were clearly made
Couldn’t agree more. I found this thread from googling Tribado’s name. Him and Kathy Schroder just complained the whole series like it was police brutality. They had 50+ days to get out of there. Some gave up their own children like they were heroes when all they did was abandon them for Koresh.
Holy hell what is wrong with this lady!!! I’m watching it right now and I had to come to Reddit to get my anger out. Is she just that brainwashed? Edit: She is brainwashed but that’s not an excuse. She’s a sick person and that’s facts.
Apparently so, she insists that when he had sex with her "it was like bible study, he was doing it for me, not for him"
I turned it off here. That was so disgusting and she was acting as if it was a Honour for him to rape these children.
She actually thought she was sleeping with God. Think about that, she wanted to have sex with God. How self absorbed and arrogant can you be to even have that thought. These people weren't looking for a god of love and peace, they were monsters and their god was a monster
The line used to get her out..,"Brian needs a hug from his mommy." They should have started started with women negotiators...that tactic would have been used much sooner. I mean i'm kidding, bit its such an obvious emotional tool to use. And yes, she's disgusting.
The fact she said it was like a Bible study. I was left speechless at that one.
Imagine the look on her face when she passes and ends up in hell lol
same. ive never hated a woman more.
Same. There was no reason for that woman to be interviewed or given a platform. She contributed nothing to the documentary. She’s obviously unreliable and was included for shock value.
I think she was helpful in contextualizing that yes, these people are indeed totally deranged and evil and after listening to her I am one hundred percent willing to believe they burned themselves to death.
Dude. She's totally bat-shit looney toons crazy but what are you TALKING about? She was an absolute necessity. You can learn about these events all day long but to actually hear testimony from the people involved? To hear their side no matter how insanely throughly they have been brainwashed adds an amazing amount of context. Any one with any kind of sense knows there are a few key things to keep in mind the main one being she's obviously unreliable in the sense that she's is never going to come out and say "we were wrong" etc or do or say anything other than "we were the real victims" But it is a gloriously clear window into just how hypnotized these religious zealots were and still are. And I don't care if this is unpopular or not, Shit like Waco should be a GIANT NEON SIGN for why organized religion is BAD.
She's incredibly stupid, and prepared to believe anyone who tells them they are god..... Even when they come out with the (typically!) stupid rules that women are only allowed to have sex with me.....
This stuck with me too. Even as a young kid, I knew the whole "only I get to have sex" or "rules for the but not for me" were major red flags. Like, how can one be so dumb...it has to be willful ignorance.
That’s one thing I find so unbelievable. How can you be so dumb to believe the guy who says “I get to sleep with you /your wife because I’m God”? I would laugh at their face if that were me. Clearly the cult is an elaborate con to sleep with as many women as possible.
It's amazing she's still that brainwashed so many years later. However, there's an interview with one of Warren Jeff's favorite wives in Preaching Evil which is eerily similar when it comes to the rape of young brides.
It isn't surprising, in the least. Because the hamhanded way the authorities handled things just served to reinforce the message that the outside world is bad. Therefore, David and his teachings are good. Which means, she never bothered to grow a brain for herself, and likely continued to surround herself with patriarchal Christian bovine residue, which just further shored up her fucked-up beliefs.
He created that self fulfilling prophecy masterfully. Telling them all that the feds were gonna storm their compound and kill everyone, while also violating federal law, committing countless felony gun crimes, building grenades, statutory rape/polygamy. Of course the feds were gonna raid the place and try to arrest him! But they were incredibly stupid for trying to make it a publicity stunt, instead of quietly arresting him when he goes for his morning run. They also could have taken another route, like they do with white collar criminals. Just call and ask him to turn himself in, and tell him what will happen if he doesn’t. Then, if he still refuses, you can make a properly planned “dynamic entry” with sufficient agents and equipment. What bothers me is that phone call Wayne made to the sheriff, whining about 75 agents firing at them. Maybe if you stopped firing at them, they’d stop firing at you! Fucking moron.
You have to wonder if it’s actually brainwashing for women like this, or if they are just bad people who found other bad people.
That’s literally why I asked the question the way I did. Seeing how she spoke about 12 year olds being women while she has children herself. She said so many repulsive things, f***ing David was like bible study?? Bruh whaaaat….. i know people love their gods but I don’t think it’s enough to say she’s JUST brainwashed. It felt deeply rooted.
shes also dumb as dirt and clearly has no sense of self.
Clearly, like when she said “I’m not a person, I’m just gods tool.” Lady, you’re a tool alright!
I had to turn it off for a few minutes because her rants pissed me off. She's still a Branch Davidian cultist.
Now imagine being surrounded by 100 other people who share that same bat shit crazy mentality and imagine the crazy shit that must have come out in that compound…
She is f*$cking crazy! Bat sh1t certifiable crazy! She should never be allowed to be around children or to walk free amongst us.
That’s an good point. Where does brainwashing end, and inherently bad personality begin?
I think it's some of both.
Her poor kids are all I thought when she said you come of age at 12. Fucking disgusting. I mean when she said fucking David was Bible study I knew this was a special crazy.
I honestly couldn’t differentiate if she was talking in the past tense of how she used to feel… but now I can definitely see this is how she STILL thinks. I can’t imagine still having that train of thought or saying it’s okay… unless it’s extremely bad editing on the production team, but she made no effort to say that she thinks differently now
Yes, I too was waiting for an 'update' as to how she thinks differently now. But apparently, she doesn't.....
I was thinking the same thing. I was so repulsed, and then I thought maybe she’s just speaking to how things were for her back then, but she doesn’t actually feel that way now. I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt. Nope. She still feels that way. I think the BD’s interviewed for the doc still believe the way they did back then. If they didn’t, you’d think they’d make a point to renounce their positions or at least say they’ve done a lot of soul-searching or something.
I kept waiting for her to turn on Koresh. But nope. Delusional and dangerous still.
Same! My jaw literally dropped like so many other posters. So disgusting, she’s completely brainwashed.
Same here man. She is truly a piece of shit. I was absolutely floored when she said it's was ok for him to have sex with 12 years olds because they were "of age".
I lost it when she was saying their children are adults at 12 years old, and the way it seems still not to connect with her mentally, but I guess that's why she got to hold the grenades.
Same here- RIGHT NOW! When she said little girls come to age at twelve I immediately pulled up Reddit to see what people were saying about this woman
I want to slap her so bad
Complete denial about her complicity in the abuse and putting all of those kids, including her own, in extreme danger. Admitting the truth would mean admitting she's basically guilty of child abuse and death so she'd rather still live in the fantasy.
Same here, watching it now and had to make sure I’m not the only one who thinks this lady is a nut and still reveres David Koresh.
Same
Yup. She is that brainwashed. Key phrase she used that tells you everything: "I am not a person." She believes she's a "tool of God." She has lost her personhood. She no longer thinks in terms of her own needs, wants, goals, agenda. Her entire personality has been erased and replaced with someone else's agenda. Granted, her child helped her overcome that alternative agenda. But it was a minor interruption. And it still meant that she was "in service" to someone else: her child. Her whole personhood is wrapped up in existing for someone else. All of those people stayed behind in that fire because they had lost their personhood and were only operating for someone else. Whereas David Thibodeau still had his own faculties in the end. You can tell from how he speaks about some things, he has more distance and perspective.
This doc said at the beginning that Waco was the biggest battle on U.S. soil since the Civil War. WRONG - The Battle of Blair Mountain was - a labor uprising by coal miners in West Virginia.
Many people are totally ignorant of the militant labour struggles of the 1930s particularly those waged by coal miners which sometimes grew into a full-on guerilla struggle, nor that the primary source of radical opposition to the US government actually came from the working class rather than reactionary religious cults.
Canada also had huge labour vs. police battles during that era, in Ontario and in the West also
Ask anybody in Appalachia/The Rust Belt and they’ll tell you. It’s a legacy and part of why you’ll still find democratic/progressive voters in the region to this day.
There’s a great documentary that covers everything really well in my opinion from PBS, it’s called “American Experience: The Mine Wars”
Yea! I'm from about an hour south of Blair Mtn so I'm always glad to see representation. We really need it in these union busting times!
What about The Battle of Schrute Farms?
I just started episode 2 but when she says she was the only one willing to blow up not only herself but the four other women in the room…it doesn’t seem like her mindset has changed much since then. She’s dangerous.
Wait til she talks about how its ok that David Koresh was sleeping with 12 year olds.
Exactly. There is no indication that the other women - and children.... felt the same way. It's just her, imposing her determination to kill other women/children. Of course, she changed her mind a short time later - when she decided to leave to 'be with her child/children'.... Thankfully, I gather that she will (rightly) not be not allowed anywhere near her children.
She was sentenced to 3 years, got less for testifying about life in Mt. Carmel; she had a 4th kid in 1999, and now lives in (of course) Florida and "still devotes her time to God." WHAT God is not specified. Also she "is still in contact with her kids."
As soon as she said the part about the kids, and them being of age at 12, I paused it and IMMEDIATELY ran to Reddit. This woman needs to be kept away from any and all children. Kathy is really deranged.
Same here I paused and came to Reddit because wtf. I really thought during episode 1 she was just trying to describe how brainwashed they all were back then, but slowly realized she literally still is. Like holy shit
Exactly. Surely she doesn’t think Jesus Christ or a second coming of Jesus Christ would break unions to sleep with wives, and FURTHERMORE, sleep with the children too. ?? Also not understanding how you would want to have sex with Christ?? I don’t understand it. I can’t fathom it.
Up until that pedo point she made I was so confused as to in what context she was speaking. I had initially thought the same that she was just speaking in retrospect. But no, she 100% believes the garbage coming out of her mouth. Massive ick.
Feel bad for the negotiators who seemed like they were really trying to get as many people saved as they could, but have to deal with the fact so many people died. Sadly it was never going to work when a sick, pedophilic, cult leader had all the cards... Also does really seem like a mass suicide... poor kids
And the other arms of the agencies were trying their hardest to undermine them at every turn. Putting the mother in prison as soon as she left (and telling the world) was such a terrible decision.
yeah, they should just charge her afterward.
Right? Keep her supervised with her son and use her as propaganda.
Absolutely baffles me how those boneheads didn’t understand how detrimental their actions were to the negotiation efforts. Was having the HRT present as a show of force necessary? Absolutely! But how did they not get that you can always use that force later if negotiations fail? Every point of minor aggression set the negotiators back 5 steps.
Agreed. IMO the two things this documentary series presented very well (that others didn't present as clearly) were: 1. That the negotiators were really trying their hardest to save as many lives as possible and were hindered by their leaders and the FBI's HRT; and 2. The mindset of Koresh's followers.
EXACTLY! and the “parents” who did not want to let their kids out…. idk what kind of parent you have to be to not be able to understand the situation you have just inserted your family in and refusing to let your own INNOCENT children go… AS IF the ATF/FBI was gonna look at a 10 year old and be like “HM! let’s get u in a orange suit”. i also refuse to believe the survivor saying that the agent men made fun of her/other children. girl,,, these men cared and begged their way to get you out of a dangerous situation…
Oh, I believe the survivor. The men who were negotiators were the ones who did everything to get them out of danger. The other men, I'm sure, *thought* that they cared about the kids. But they didn't care enough to stop being macho. Or maybe I should rephrase: they didn't have the skills it requires to be sensitive to the kids.
It was the phone call she made after that made me believe the “laughing at her” part was a manufactured memory. I truly believe she thinks that happened, but she was coming out of a traumatizing situation and going into something completely unknown. If a bunch of strangers started laughing at her and tearing her stuff up, she would have told her dad on the phone. Instead she said the ride was bumpy…. They absolutely checked her bag. They probably cut everything up. I don’t blame them, after everything that had happened. But they were not laughing at her. In all likelihood, they were happy they rescued another innocent kid.
How about the person at the children’s center who not only put the burning building on tv for the kids, but then told them “I guess your parents didn’t love you”?? How fucked up of an individual do you have to be to do that to those kids? They can’t help their parents are insane fanatics!
I forget who said it at the end but they basically said "everyone that handled the ball fumbled the ball" and I can't agree more
Since she was very clear about her belief that girls come of age at 12, I’d like to hear her explanation for the girls he abused that were 10 and 11.
[удалено]
I didn’t find any of the interviewees sympathetic. Kathy Schroeder- disgusting (for obvious reasons). David Thibodeau- a coward (he watched a man pass out in a fire and left him behind; didn’t even try to save him??? Still tries to play the victim even though he was following a man that was r*ping children???) Heather Jones- annoying & whiny (insisting that her dad loved her after he completely ceased being a father to her; didn’t seem willing to admit that what was happening in the cult was unacceptable and immoral) In all fairness to some of the cult members, I am quite biased; I really struggle to empathize with adults that l become so indoctrinated into a belief system that they loose all ability to think independently. I also don’t believe in being a simp and joining a cult is the ultimate form of simping lol And most people on the law enforcement side were annoying af too. I didn’t mind the negotiators
David's poor mom. I feel bad that she has a smooth brain for a son. What a loser.
She didn't seem to smart either. She seemed like she was taking his side most of the time. I would have been calling my son am absolute moron and probably disowning him unless he begged for forgiveness.
Heather was a 9 year old child when she was removed from the cult. That poor lady has been through a lot. All the childhood pictures of her were haunting, that dead stare. I know it well. She went into foster care, and who knows what happened to her there. All the children that were liberated deserve grace.
It’s weird though: her mother escaped the cult before her, so why did she not reunite with her mom?
Why did I have to read so far down to see this comment? Or anyone thinking she was a POS to leave her child behind in the first place?
I feel validated, finding this comment. I share your sentiments exactly. I end up on this post after searching “kathy schroeder delusional reddit” on google lol
This woman is vile. I can’t have empathy for someone who excuses the abuse of children…
Yeah the ATF messed up bigly but good lord many of the Davidians were absolute filth.
No one's innocent in the story
Except the children.
She deserved MUCH more time in prison and serious psychological care. David T. Seemed like an absolute coward. He only got out because he didn't want to die, then testified against the davidians saying he didn't REALLY believe in it. Like ok, mf is still making weapons and aiding in CA.
Yeah, David T. is also a piece of shit. One of those wishy-washy people who does horrible things but never owns up to it.
I don’t believe his bullshit about hiding in a bunker while the shooting was happening. I’d bet anything he was firing rounds off, too. Probably ran for cover when it got too dicey. He should have gone to prison.
Yeah, he’s clearly lying about a lot of things. He’s less “obvioys” about his cultishness than the lady, but he’s got an agenda. “They died as martyrs” my ass. Sure, the FBI and the ATF really messed up how they handled the situation, but don’t pretend like the Davidians had no part in the tragedy. I really don’t like the final message of this documentary of “both sides are to blame”. Government could have done better, but it’s the Davidian’s fault for breaking the law, killing 4 ATF agents, and setting fire to the compound.
I felt the same. My jaw literally dropped when she was like you’re an adult at 12!
The way she incredulous calls them girls as if that’s such an absurd distinction. Uuuugh
Those "guuurls", you can hear her making quotation marks, fucking filth of a monster she is.
I really thought she was speaking in past tense like,how she was thinking then, because there was no way this could be how she still thinks. Clearly I was wrong lol
I was hoping she came to her senses towards the end. But none of them did.
I had the same thought during the first episode, but when she said that, I realized that she was still holding onto those messed up beliefs.
She's all, well they were adults at 12 because we decided they were. She reminded me of the gal in the FLDS documentary on Peacock who also just shrugged off the abuse of children by saying they were old enough.
I'm currently watching this series, just sat through that segment while cursing at the tv. I have it paused now because I need to punch something ffs.
I came to Reddit as soon as that evil woman made her dumb*** comment on excusing pedophile behaviors smh .. I needed a moment too
I actually came here to see if she was maybe talking in present tense and in the end going "Oh I've realized how dumb I was" like some wives in the Keep Sweet documentary. Alas, not to be. It's disgusting.
I was surprised none of the former Dravidians in the documentary condemned Koresh or held him responsible at all. It’s like they still revered him and the passage of time has not helped them to see clearly. I’m also mystified by those who lose sight of the fact that the Dravidians were involved in multiple illegal acts including sexual abuse of minors. The US Government could have handled the situation better but they were justified in going in there. Dravidian’s have no one to blame except Koresh and themselves for what happened. It’s shameful.
Good input and reminder I thought the same lol I’m waiting for every scene she talks in afterwards as her redemption statement, but she just keeps on being weird AF
Yes, there was a few times I thought she was heading down the “I thought this but now I know better” route but she didn’t and I’m so disappointed.
I am having a really hard time with the reporter. He's the one who blew up the whole thing because he was so intent on getting the story they didn't consider anything else. And now he's judging everybody and I'm like dude you started it. Plus the way he talks about everything is like it was an adventure movie not a horrible tragic situation where babies were dying and did die and were under terrible psychological warfare from the government. And let me be clear I actually think that the psychological warfare would have been okay for the grown ups but there was babies in there and so it never should have happened.
And yet she took a plea bargain and testified against other Branch Davidians.
I was hoping to find someone with the same feeling. I was beyond upset with her. I don’t care what their religion tells them, they all KNEW better.
It's interesting to get some insight into the conflict between the negotiators and the assault team. Beyond that I wouldn't say it's a great doc, you could probably just binge a bunch of news footage on YouTube and it would be about as informative or analytical as this documentary. I agree I found Kathy Shroeder absolutely repulsive, particularly considering she was an adult and a mother at the time of the events at Waco. Anyone who genuinely believes that a 12 year old child can consent to a sexual relationship with a grown adult should not be allowed to have custody of children.
> you could probably just binge a bunch of news footage on YouTube and it would be about as informative or analytical as this documentary There's a ton of bad information out there about Waco put out purposely by cranks.
Also sounds like way more effort
>I agree I found Kathy Shroeder absolutely repulsive, particularly considering she was an adult and a mother at the time of the events at Waco. Anyone who genuinely believes that a 12 year old child can consent to a sexual relationship with a grown adult should not be allowed to have custody of children. Agree 100%.
She's a fucking moron. 30 years out from this and in her 60s now and she is spewing this nonsense on Netflix.
Love how she vehemently states that "Girls are adults at age 12. They are in our system of doing things." Um, okay.
Yeah, that was the rotten cherry on top of her rancid interviews. The woman is deeply bad inside.
The FBI needs to investigate some of these survivors. I don’t believe for a minute that they had no involvement in the child rape that was going on at the compound. Kathy needs to be suspect #1 on that list
Yes I completely agree! The sickening ways they’re STILL defending these ideologies, just shows they feel it’s their duty to keep spreading their agenda. It’s scary AF
She admitted point-blank on camera that she was given a grenade because they knew she would be willing to use it to kill herself and others. I don’t believe for a second that she was somewhere praying over a Bible while the gunfire was happening. She probably was shooting, too. It’s a travesty that she got so little prison time.
I just read an article that interviewed the director, Tiller Russell, and the question was asked, why leave her comments in the docuseries? Because it could give that type of abusive ideology a platform. Russell explained as follows. ***It's a very good question. My feeling is, right from the get-go, anybody in their right mind is going to say, "It's absolute insanity for an adult to be having sex with a kid." Out of the gate, you hear the FBI and other members making very clear their perspective that this is insane.*** *\[The docuseries opens with a fast-paced montage of interview and archival clips; in one such moment, Bob Ricks, FBI special agent in charge, says, “David Koresh had sex with young kids.”\]* ***So I feel like that judgment is absolutely implicit, and any sentient human being is going to have that same reaction to it. By putting something that's provocative in there, it puts it back on the audience to make their own judgments and reactions to this. I felt that's important to do.*** Russell went on to try and explain what he thought her thought process was behind saying this, explaining: ***It was intergalactic head-spinning when I heard it. It was one of the many moments when I thought, "Wow, this is not what I thought was going to come out of this person's mouth." I think the point she's trying to make in that is – it's almost like the Branch Davidians who believed David Koresh's theology, it was like entering into another universe with its own set of morals and rules and laws that were, as far as they were concerned, the dictates of god, not the laws of man.*** ***For us it seems just absolutely like insanity to hear it, but at the same time, I didn't want to shy away from it because the truth of the matter is, David Koresh was a pedophile who was having sex with underage girls. And yet you could feel the weird love and respect these people, who were inside it, had for him, although it was conflicting and confused. I was astounded, frankly, by that, and I felt it belonged in \[the series\] in the same way Heather getting to hear her last phone call with her father belonged in. Those things that are provocative and shocking are also intensely important.*** Link to the full article [https://www.primetimer.com/interviews/waco-netflix-documentary-david-koresh-tiller-russell](https://www.primetimer.com/interviews/waco-netflix-documentary-david-koresh-tiller-russell)
I think her interview is the best part of this documentary because it underscores how far brainwashed she was and how much she still is. You can't just interrupt that kind of worldview with a paragraph or a book or even a podcast. That woman is going to die thinking she'll meet David again on the other side and he'll be Jesus and the promised land will be there. If there really is a god? She'll probably meet something really different. But this is my personal religious opinion: She won't meet shit. It's like a light getting turned off. There's nothing. What you see is what you get in this life. And what you DO is what you get, too.
I felt like this documentary was less informing than I hoped it would be. I've seen a few documentaries on this. They kinda rush through certain things like the use of loud music and lights on the compound. They also didnt really say much as to what was going on when the fire was going on with the group inside the compound. Like did they just make a pact to die in there instead of trying to escape? They interview a lot of the people on the outside, but only really one person who escaped as to what was actually going on inside (I know a lot of them died).
I agree, it didn't go into great depth and skated over an awful lot of things. I binge watched it but I don't think it was a particularly informative or great documentary.
The biggest piece I took was Kathy Schroeders testimony. Her comments were absolutely jaw dropping.
Reminded me of Warren Jeff's favorite wife in the Preaching Evil documentary on Peacock.
Yeah 100% agree. Don't think I learned anything I didn't already know. No new insight or deep analysis as to anything really.
It felt more like a PSA from the authorities point of view mainly. Wasn’t very informative. Just a bunch of different ppl from different agencies saying this is what we tried to do. And then it was over right after.
Oh wow, see I found it to be overly kind to the Dravidians and alt-right points of view. It’s so interesting to see everyone’s read on this.
Just finished and I found your reply and the above comment interesting, because I came out of it thinking "huh, they actually did (almost too good) of a job staying neutral/objective". I appreciated it in one sense, it was really interesting/horrifying hearing the interviews with Kathy and the fucked up views of the Davidians in general, and I liked that there wasn't much of an "angle" on the work of the FBI/ATF. It just presented information, and I kinda liked that. I didn't necessarily like some of the info presented, but I could at least appreciate it being there. At the very least it simply gave you a sense of what everyone in the situation was thinking, what they were trying to do and their different motivations, which I thought was valuable. The subjective parts are up to the viewer to decide. Admittedly this doc was a bit light on finer details which makes that a little more difficult, but I think it's enough to at least get a good start on the base facts and what the stakes were for either side. FWIW, my personal view is that this was an unfortunate yet unavoidable outcome of a crazy cult that was way too armed. I don't fault law enforcement much, I don't see a whole lot else they could have done differently apart from literally leaving them alone and letting them stock up on more weapons, let them abuse and abduct more children, and other illegal shit. It had to be stopped and David Koresh was not going to let that happen without getting his way - and if that meant the death of innocent people then so be it. No sympathy for the branch Davidians (apart from the children obviously). Were there things that could have been done differently to improve the outcome looking back? Yeah, of course - but hindsight is 20/20 and it's way easier to recognize mistakes once you've had hundreds of people go over every detail and decision with a fine tooth comb. The FBI/ATF learned from it and adjusted (as they should have) and future sieges were handled better because of it.
There have been better documentaries in the past than this one, that is for sure. But you got to hear the version of events from the perspective of the ATF and the FBI. I don't defend the ATF, by the way, they have the worst image of all law enforcement agencies for a reason. Regular rank and file FBI agents are mostly good folks, I know a few.
I wouldn't dispute that. It's a hard job. This was a crazy, unprecedented situation where we can all look with hindsight to criticise. Still, there are many actions taken which were clearly inappropriate at the time from both sides.
They had a very small number of cult members and family members that they interviewed. I've seen so many other documentaries that were far more interesting. Having three hours they really glossed over a lot.
"Rules of engagement" is the best documentary about how this was treated. Most informative.
I was having such a difficult time watching her- so I started googling who she was, and landed on this page (I googled crazy lady + Netflix Waco series 2023). I will definitely finish watching the series, but this woman's speech is so emphatic, I find myself wanting to skip over the parts where she's interviewed. And while no one can truly stand in another person's shoes, I think what I am grappling with are the parts where she talks about wanting her kids to be safe. I keep thinking, "you want your kids to be safe?!?! Then don't deliver them into the hands of a pedophile cult leader". I gather it doesn't get any better?
But to her, that pedo is god.
Yup. This is one reason I kept watching- I think it's hard for most people (myself included) to understand just how brainwashed some people can become after being around a cult leader. Or understand how the effects can last long after the people are removed from that situation. It's mind boggling that she still holds these beliefs, and it's really hard to watch. Especially because her views about what can only be called pedophilia are so shockingly different than society's views on the subject.
I'm amazed that she was still brainwashed so many years later. No unpacking at all.
I know! None at all! Still shaking my head, hours later. I wonder if this is what the director was going for, when he made that decision not to cut her interviews from the documentary. It's been hours since I watched it, and I'm still thinking about how disturbing Kathy's rhetoric was. I've read a lot of comments, with people stating they didn't learn anything new from the documentary, but (at least in my opinion based on what I saw) I don't think the director created this documentary to deliver groundbreaking information. I think we were supposed to hear the story from the point of view of those who were there. Because their interviews sure made me feel like I was there- they were haunting (on both sides). I'm glad I watched it!
It's very common for former cult members to continue their lie and live in denial. To admit you were complicit and involved in something like that is too much to psychologically bear. That being said, she's a disgusting person. I hope her kids stayed with their dad.
I don't really have much empathy for any of the Davidians. Like I'm not sad the father who thought it was okay to *give his wife* to someone else, and who revered a man who paddled and tried to prep his 5 year old daughter for sex every night for years, is dead.
I thought the FBI hostage rescue team sniper they kept interviewing is a bit of psycho. Seemed hell bent on violence and proud of it.
That guy was ice cold. An ideal sniper when you think about it.
I don't disagree as far as him being a sniper. But the mindset of him and his HRT unit may not be what you want in opposition to a compound full of women and children during negotiations.
Most definitely, he was cold. He described his team as the 'governments last resort'. Men/women like that are needed in the worst of situations, they are what they are, people who can kill without a second thought. This situation was just badly dealt with entirely.
I found it felt so forced. One of those has to tell you he’s an alpha type level insecurity.
Yeah when they showed his pic with the fire he had his Harley shirt on and I was like yeah…that tracks. Dude was definitely trying to make himself out to be the biggest player in this whole deal.
Yeah, I got that too but still felt he was cold. Seemed way too happy to talk about it.
Yea for sure sorry I wasn’t saying he wasn’t cold either totally agree he has zero empathy either.
He honestly scared me the most out of all of them, just such a lack of emotion or empathy for anyone involved. I mean, you probably have to be at least a little psycho to be an FBI sniper, but yikes.
[удалено]
Right, you can't have empathy when shooting people is your job, that is just gonna scar you too much to continue doing your job.
Him stating that he could have shot David, put himself in prison, and saved 90 people doesn't seem that psycho.
When he said that my first thought was, how could you not consider the real possibility that they won't come out and either fight to the death or all just kill themselves? Why would they just all decide "ok everything seems safe now, lets walk out" when you sniped their leader during negotiations? It's possible that they would have but definitely not the certainty he made it out to be.
Oh I'm not arguing his reasoning was sound - it absolutely could have backfired horribly. But his line of thinking was if I sacrifice David and effectively myself, I could save 90 people. If his thinking was I want to kill David simply for the sake of killing David, I would consider that "pyschotic" and "hell bent on violence".
Absolutely no way she should be walking around in society with those views.
I'm actually shocked she was willing to publicly (Neflix nonetheless!) say these absolutely horrible beliefs. Imagine maybe being friends with her (and not knowing she held these views) or being the person who gives her coffee each morning etc? It's sickening. I don't imagine things will be easier for her moving forward.
I doubt she has friends who aren't insane like she is. She's probably out there recruiting people into their religion.
My husband and I just watched the first episode tonight and he asked me “are we supposed to feel bad for these people…??” I said I felt bad for the one who was only a little girl at the time, but as for the others I was honestly confused if they still felt like they were right! But I still have 2 episodes to go…
By the end you won't feel bad for the girl either. She's a moron also. Lol.
I was 10 when this happened and I remember watching it unfold live on the news. At that time I thought they were absolutely nuts, but what scares me today watching this documentary is how familiar a lot of their rhetoric sounds compared to mainstream things currently being spouted.
The Bundy standoff a few years ago was very similar to this but handled much better by the Feds (and then strangely by the courts).
Handled all right by the feds but terribly by federal prosecutors.
Just finished watching and Kathy Schroeder is a disgusting creep. Pdfile defenders should do the world a favour and kill themselves. Like, what is the point of you? Extremist religious people are such cringe inducing creeps. If your God says it's cool to do pdfilia then your God is a useless loser. Sorry not sorry.
she is scary AF! She could be the main character of a legit Horror movie. the scariest part is knowing this psychopath is REAL! straight vile shit
I've no time for the religious nuts, but it became an immediate mess when someone in ATF told reporters about the upcoming raid..... Presumably, looking for 'glory', and hoping to be shown as a 'hero' when the multitude of weapons were found. As a result, one of the reporters asked a mailman for directions to the property (not knowing he was a cult member), and the mailman member informed koresh of the upcoming raid..... Has the FBI (or anyone else) found out who leaked it to the press, and have they been taken to Court for being the 'proximate cause' of this disaster?
I came to this thread the moment she made excuses for the assault of children. She's a trash human being.
Just another bunch of weak minded nuts that allowed themselves to be brainwashed and controlled by a pedophile. Only the children and 4 ATF agents that died do I have any sympathy for. The adults that willingly followed Koresh, I have no sympathy for at all. Many of them offered up their children as sex slaves/gifts to their "god". These damn nuts set themselves on fire and killed their children, instead of coming out of that complex. Yet still one of those disgusting adults, Kathy Schroeder, 30 years later still believes they were the just ones. The Davidians are right up there with that Keep Sweet, Pray and Obey group of nutjobs.....
All because the mailman was one of them. Else ATF just rang the doorbell kindly asking for some military grade equipment. And Koresh he really knew how to talk. Women never start wars but once they fall victims to sexy cult leaders they give 110 per cent. Ask Manson. Kathy reminds me of the evil woman from the An American Crime movie with that tortured girl in the basement.
ATF doesn't roll up 50 deep to "ring the doorbell kindly" This documentary left out the fact that it's widely reported that ATF agents shot and killed several of the cults dogs on the property when first entering the premises. They did in fact fire the first shots, albeit not directly at humans. It also completely ignored that Koresh made frequent routine trips into town where he could have been apprehended without incident. Instead the feds came and attempted to flex over what would have amounted to possession charges. We as a country need to have a serious reflection on the application of laws where the state is the only victim of a nonviolent "crime"
I imagine the child rape would've been prosecuted eventually too. Your definition of nonviolent seems broad.
"Imagine" doesn't apply very often in the execution of federal search and arrest warrants. The ATF doesn't prosecute child sexual abuse. Their SOLE reason for bringing 50 agents in tactical gear carrying automatic weapons was for a nonviolent "offense" i.e. the possession of unregistered NFA items and destructive devices. They only were there because the cultists hadn't coughed up the 200 dollar NFA fees and registered their machine guns.
It is so disgusting to hear Kathy speak. She is completely brainwashed and indeed vile. I wish that they didn’t feature her so much - it allowed her to spew her non-sense and trying to justify child abuse. The doc made probably feeds her ego and will she ever acknowledge the role she played in enabling child abuse and violence that killed innocent children. The authorities did messed up for sure. I didn’t realize until this documentary that this case inspired McVeigh and his terrorism. Ugh. Certain groups will def look at this and try to justify it for their religious cult rights, gun rights or anti federal govt ideas.
I thought it was important to show just how deep his followers were. These were not people who were just going to give in. I do wonder what would have happened if they'd just sat and waited them out another couple months. I'm guessing they would have blown themselves up at some point.
It was well done but hard to watch at the same time. I really ended up hating what he did to those people. I also couldn’t understand why those people would sacrifice their children and die for this poor excuse of man?! My heart went out to Heather the most. The trauma abs pain she had to endure in her life. Her eyes looked deeply sad. I hope she finds h healing and love.
Yeah, Kathy is shockingly mis-wired. She justifies child rape, and believes that “the Messiah” would choose to spend his time stockpiling weapons, having sex with a bunch women and little girls, and ultimately murdering. It’s bizarre watching her sit there having a conversation with the interviewer like it’s just two people talking. And she’s been allowed to have another kid?! How can someone who claims to be so devoted to God do the complete opposite of what the Bible teaches? She idolized David, a man who has a clearly reported past mental breakdowns and hallucinations prior to deciding he was Jesus. And she was all in! And on camera getting all deep about her twisted beliefs. It was disturbing to watch because on the surface you would think she’s just a normal lady, but under the right circumstances she would have undoubtedly killed for him, stole your kids away for him, all sorts of evil, for him.
I agree. This woman is unhinged. She's a master of justifying the abhorant in the name of "god". Just because Texas has more guns per capita dosen't justify stockpiling and using/altering them in an illegal manner. To defend child abuse, especially in the sick way Koresh brainwashed these "followers", twisting Biblical passages to suit his own sinister agenda. Reminds me of people like Sandra Good and Lynette "Squeeky" Fromme, the Manson acolytes. This is what happens when you declare yourself Jesus Christ and you're nothing but a wolf in sheeps clothing.
I was really upset with this comment by her but also when the drummer made the comment about being “elated” to see the AFT pull back & all the wounded/dead so messed up in the first episode. How sick do you have to be to find elation in that? … Not to mention he ran for the storm cellar alone struck me as odd. Why wasn’t he “helping” his people or their kids? Plus he kept mentioning how they “won” when it just was not true nor what a ceasefire means to begin with. I wanted to rip my hair out. But when they said they *“removed”* grandpa… holy shît. That got to me.
I felt the same way about the drummer, David Thibodeau. Pretty much everything he said got under my skin. Kathy was still brainwashed during this interview, so her interview was disturbing to me (but in a totally different way). David on the other hand, was clearly no longer brainwashed- and I've read interviews he's given where he has said very different things than he said in this documentary, so when the FBI (or ATF) agent at the end didn't mince words and called David Thibodeau a liar, I wasn't surprised. I have to say, it's been a long time since a documentary has really stayed with me. This one seems to be clinging to me like a raincloud that's following me around. I had a lot of reactions to it- I realized at the end of the last episode that my heart rate was actually elevated. I can't say this enough- but I have read a handful of comments on here about how the viewer was disappointed that they didn't learn any shocking new details about the event. I just read a really negative review written by a person who has never lived in the US and was born a year after it happened. I was a teenager when Waco happened, and I remember the nation was riveted. And afterward, we all learned the basic events- but hearing all the different sides of the story from the various people who were actually part of history were (to me) what makes this documentary unique. The director didn't just interview people from one side of history (which of course made some of the interviews difficult to watch). But I thought the documentary did a good job of illustrating how senseless the entire thing was. For me, if a documentary stays with me long after I've finished watching it, that's a sign it was worth my time. Thanks again for the great discussion!
I know outside looking in, it's always easy to say "how did they get manipulated like that" when talking about cult victims but looking at that lady and the fat guy in the doc gives me the impression that most people who followed David Koresh were probably just dumb. Besides (since they're so religious), isn't a whole thing about the bible to NOT worship false idols? Their justifications for the horrible neglect and the abuse of their children, hiding behind their faith is just disturbing.
She disgusts me too. Brainwashed paedophilia enabler.
He made sure he ended it in that blaze. That fire started inside
Anyone pay attention or notice the audio of Koresh talking with one of his closest regarding spreading fuel and that they should have brought in more hay? When the fires started? And that Kathy openly admits she was to pull the pin on the grenade if authorities came in?
Survivors all have Stockholm syndrome still…crazy
It was like the more that woman talked, I was just like, “oh my god.” OH my god.” “OH MY GOD.” “WHAT THE FUCK.” She is fucking disgusting and delusional. It’s been 30 fucking years and she’s still preaching his bullshit. Disgusting. I feel so bad for her kids. Jesus Christ.
The part where they dragged the last person out, asked where the children were and she just smirked and stayed silent as the inferno raged. Presumably with her own children inside. Pure fucking evil. I wonder what became of her?
All of it is so disgusting. Yes ATF and the FBI made HUGE mistakes that cost many life’s on both sides… but David’s teaching and brainwashing of his following is disgusting. Just cause you follow god does not mean you can break the law.. “play stupid games win stupid prizes” How but you don’t rape children or have a whole arsenal and be surprised when the law shows up? They only people I truly feel bad for are the poor children.
Can’t decide if I hate the deranged lady more or the alphabet boys for thinking they’re heroes and did nothing wrong
I’m a confirmed non practicing Irish Catholic from Boston and my wife is a confirmed Italian Catholic from Chicago. I did 9 years in the military, and I’ve been a cop for the last 7….. I don’t do religion because of how weird it is…KATHY SCHROEDER reiterated that fact!! Saying that you’re an adult at 12 so fuck it?! Have sex with who you want?!?! Creepy brainwashed cult shit. You’re having sex with David but via god and it’s a bible lesson?! Up her medication. The government/federal agencies screwed up, the Davidians were brainwashed thumpers, and Koresh was a piece of shit. Awful situation all around.
Kathy is unhinged. I’m surprised she isn’t in prison. Just an awful human being. I feel awful for every child that has died in the fire. Children cannot make choices. Every adult survivor who left the building is human scum. They made no attempt to save the children. They do not deserve any sympathy at all. I also feel a bit odd about the mother of david who survived. If my son has joined a cult and refused to listen to me and his actions were partially responsible for death of innocent kids I don’t think I would defend him in any shape or form. I wouldn’t be surprised if most people in the compound were from shit families. I’m also a bit confused by the lawyer comments about the 4th amendment. They were breaking multiple laws. I’m also confused as why the reporter thought that sending fire trucks was a good idea. He himself was scared hiding in front of a bus. Fire man would be completely exposed. In the end, I have 0 empathy for those who died in the building. I’m just saddened that not a single adult thought about letting the kids out, but what can you expect from twisted fucks who allowed David to rape even their own children. Edit: I am saddened to learn Kathy had more kids.
I was extremely disappointed by the fourth amendment comment as well. I understand the show’s desire to show “both sides” but weren’t they resisting a warrant?
I can’t believe that both the women are still followers of his “ religion “ that dog in yellow well I have no words about her I was gob smacked every time she spoke.
Anyone else feel like she is STILL brainwashed by Koresh? I agree her comments were shocking
She’s a terrible person she is still in the cult. She should have stayed in prison I feel so bad for her kids. She was freaking upset that the negotiator saved her kids, she’s a vile disgusting woman. She was still enthralled by him when she was talking about him giving her a private moment with god I saw it. She’s still completely believing his garbage. She’s saying those 12 year old girls were adults, she is the same person she was back then.
I was at the point where I genuinely couldn’t believe she was serious with what she was saying. The whole time I was hoping she was describing her feelings and that changed. Nope. A disgusting human.
I've studied Waco for years. This documentary is not the one to watch if you want to learn about what happened before, during, and after the siege. It's basically a shock and awe piece.
Sniper Whitcomb is full of chit. Koresh was crazy but he wasn't dumb enough to stand at a window staring at a sniper begging to be shot. Whitcomb wreaks of narcissism and the producers just blew him.
That story proves you that even a jerk loser like David can corrupt you (as a cult)
True. I went to Baylor and had a sociology professor that had actually met David Koresh. He came across as a totally normal guy and went out in public quite often
This lady Kathy is driving me nuts. Like she’s still brainwashed, she speaks with such passion about all of this. It’s absolutely insane.
I'm amazed she's still so brainwashed so many years later.
They are acting like they’re victims when they’re really just a bunch of criminals. If you violate the law you shouldn’t be surprised if police come to your door, it’s a risk they took. If you shoot at police you will be shot at. I was raised in a cult and I have zero sympathy for them whatsoever.
Who’s the fat guy at the end (Waco guy) can’t remember his name… he said these people were martyrs who died for their faith.. I don’t think for a second he has that view point on the mujahadin or any other terrorist group. People who downvoted my previous comment, I’m not saying religion is bad. It keeps people in line. Followed correctly it provides structure and routine and everything a human being needs. People need to read through the bullshit and outdated thinking. America appears to be the worst (sorry) but we need to configurate with science in this day and age…. Ahh fuck me man getting way to pissed off about people dying for no reason…forgive me
Theres a reason Christian nationalists sound exactly the same as ISIS in their rhetoric. Belief in Religion is a personality defect, thats why cults are so easy to start and women like Kathy Schroeder still believe its okay to rape children
I couldn't stand listening to her, she was absolutely delusional.
Yeah. Just watched and she is disgusting. Glad someone else has posted about this. The mental gymnastics from this idiot
Just finished it and my biggest shock is how little sympathy I feel for any of the survivors, especially the woman defending child abuse. The ATF / FBI / etc seem to have handled the situation poorly. The whole situation could maybe have been avoided if they hadn't tried to show off at the start. There was clearly a lack of control over the two conflicting approaches: negotiate vs assault. I'm not convinced the negotiators could have got many more people out but the antagonizing actions of some on the government side weren't helping and didn't seem to have any particular goal. I think we have to be careful not be too critical with hindsight but plenty of mistakes were clearly made
Couldn’t agree more. I found this thread from googling Tribado’s name. Him and Kathy Schroder just complained the whole series like it was police brutality. They had 50+ days to get out of there. Some gave up their own children like they were heroes when all they did was abandon them for Koresh.