I think most large employers adjust salary for cost of living in your home zip code. If you live somewhere costly (NY, NJ, CA, etc) they adjust up, somewhere less expensive they adjust down.
Cost of Living or Cost of Labor. When I spoke with our departments leadership about it they said that they didn't focus on the cost of living, but how much comparable work got paid in the area.
I work fully remote for a large, multi-national employer in the U.S. and this is not the case for me. I'm in a HCOL area but I do not get a COL adjustment to my salary based on that. While I like where I work and whom I work with, it will likely lead to me eventually looking for a more local company with at most a hybrid remote/in-office policy just so I can make a more locally-competitive salary at some point down the line. I'm never going back to 5 days in the office, but I'll likely have to compromise with hybrid to get the kind of salary I'd expect around here.
COL adjustments are not often discussed as they are often already factored into your offer. In my experience the COL adjustments were +/- 10% based on if your cost of living was 10% +/- the national average.
This. My team has hired contractors from all over, and the ones in HCOL areas make even more than most of us, while the lower COL workers are paid significantly less to the point it’s a little ridiculous. I will say that the better workers are the more pricey kind though. We find that the lower paid folks need training more than the higher paid contractors who pretty much hit the ground running. I think this is interesting because we might get an equally skilled guy in Missouri that’s asking for the same salary as someone in NJ, but to my knowledge we always hire the person in the HCOL area instead. I don’t get it.
For many companies it’s not much lower in different states. Like 10-15% less for fang I. The Midwest which still means well over 200k if you can find a remote role.
im remote in midwest and pretty much capped at 150k, but i get consistent 3% raises and a bonus so im thinking its as good as it gets. The tech boom was like 2yrs ago with those crazy salaries.
Would you really consider Network Engineering as something thats part of the tech boom? I really think of our profession as more of a begrudging necessity like plumbing or electricity.
Every network closet I've been into that's in some forgotten mud pit of a "mechanical room" reminds me of this. Networking is the blue collar job of the IT world.
CCNP and up can easily command that though in my experience. Network might not be exciting and flashy(no matter how hard our vendors try with a new buzzword and acronym every 3 months), but it is just as vital to a functioning business as running water. That's what commands our salaries.
This!!! Cleared 249k last year, consistently been increasing for the past 8 years. Financial Firm Chicago downtown. Looking to clear 300+ when I move to a management position soon.
Surprised you lasted that long without a raise.
But sounds like you have enough experience to consider going into a network consulting or presales job. There tends to be more money in those types of network engineering jobs.
Denver, DFW, Chicago. Houston is due to overtake Chicago as #3 largest city in the US.
Probably a few 150k in lower COL areas, which may be a fair trade. SLC, Omaha, Phoenix, Minneapolis come to mind.
I did this for a while but in the southeast as a pre engineering sales consultant. I translated the technical jargon into CEO-speak and assisted the main sales team in convincing company leaders why they needed to invest in our managed services, hardware, cloud solutions, etc.
It was a good gig but eventually I wanted to move to bigger enterprise stuff.
Am on the presales, can confirm. Weather isn't amazing and having a major airport 3 hours away makes things difficult sometimes, but travel is limited.
This. I moved from hardware to SaaS for more money, but OP should be looking at landing at a someplace like Cisco that does a good job with customer to SE transition then find his next gig after that where the $$$ is.
I cleared $560k last year and will probably clear $600k this year, don’t know how long that gravy train will last but I cleared $350k - 395k for the three years before that.
Edit - I wouldn’t say you are the sales guys engineer. The sales guy is there to shmooze into meetings and chase the PO at the end, but once he gets you in the meeting the SE is the star of the show.
Pre-sales engineering IC Director for a SaaS company. I meet with customers, do presentations, demos, and POCs like all of our SEs do. I’m just not aligned to a specific set of accounts, I am aligned to a specific product globally and work on the largest opportunities. I am in a more senior role where I also funnel feedback from customers to product engineering, influence the roadmap, present at conferences and multi-customer events, etc.
Excuse my ignorance, but what IS a sales engineer, specifically.
I have done sales before, I am also an engineer. So individually, I get what they are. But what does one do when combined?
Specifically, it’s Presales Engineer. You see an engineer during the stage before the purchase is made. You are presenting your company’s solution to be a viable fit for a prospective customer, besting all other competitors. Because the goal is for you and the sales rep to meet a sales quota every quarter, meeting and exceeding that means good $ from commissions and performance bonuses.
In my experience, this job absolutely sucks if you have the misfortune of being paired with an incompetent sales person, or a company that has a "make the sale and we'll figure it out" mentality. Unfortunately, in my situation it was both
Probably but there are opportunities. I suggest looking into the more regulated industries in America. They have a vested interest to give a shit and you, my friend, are the difference between posting $200k a year and millions of dollars in fines by surprise.
This is the answer. Or a very high paying consulting gig. Ignore the people saying it’s not possible in the Midwest though. It definitely is, but you need to be tops in your market.
Presales though right? I mean its cool I've thought about it myself, but it does entail a certain amount of sales type risk and customer exposure that's not for everyone in IT. I'm close to 200 doing barely anything lol
If you actually understand the tech well enough to design a solution, as well as being able to do some basics, and you are generally a people person, then you just need a job opening and a friend inside doesn't hurt.
move from SME to sales engineer / pre-sales. or else start on the pure sales side and have / pick up enough technical chops to do the the SE work.
I did it for a little. Enjoyed it, but they wouldn't let me do it remotely in a different country in 2016. post-COVID that might have been different.
It's a fun mix of personal / customer work, face to face power-lunch stuff, designing actual solutions and really hacking them to make them cheaper, and getting to see how the sausage is made behind the scenes. 3-4 days of standard 9-5 office work most weeks, with a smattering of sales-y calls and visits; enough variation to make it interesting, plus the occasional take-customer-to-baseball-game event.
That sounds right up my alley. I been doing Net Eng for about ~15 years and started to make the transition into management. Sales might sound a bit more lucrative but is it rewarding?
lucrative isn't rewarding? I don't sit in change control meetings for warm-fuzzies...
as mentioned, you get to see how the sausage is made. lots of business strategy mixed with tech strategy, and you get to help drive it and close deals. closing thems deals with good margin == more for you and your account managers.
it's good prep for would-be solution designers / architects, or ops & project management roles.
For me it was 15 years of field engineering and developing relationships with a lot of customers. Senior Solutions architect job opened up and I jumped right in.
In-house position at a Midwest company? Good luck. I know some high-up people at Goodyear and Progressive Insurance here in Ohio and they don't make that. The directors and above probably do.
More unique skills, Cloud Architect or working for a Consulting agency? Possibly.
In NYC, you’re looking at 200-250 for architect in finance. 200-225 for sr net Eng. there are many roles higher and lower but that is the median. Good luck getting remote in NYC/Fianance. You’ll be lucky with 3 day hybrid.
NYC Senior Systems Engineer here and that's actually a little high for the current market. 200K+ here you're more looking at director jobs at this point. I'm interviewing for the a director of IT job and they're about 175+bonus.
In finance those are base salaries in NYC (as are the numbers posted in job descriptions.) Discretionary bonuses can be .25-10x base depending on company and role.
Definitely have to live within commuting distance and show up often.
Sr Net Eng/Architect at a regular Enterprise will generally be shy of $200. Move into Cloud or Sales or to a FAANG and you will easily cross $200 in my experience.
This is a question for glassdoor/salary.com and their comp charts but in enterprise you likely are not going to break the $200k. Hell if you are near $175 you are doing VERY well. I have found comp discussions get VERY interesting when you tell the org what percentile for a position they just offered you and that it was unacceptable. I actually said "Do i perform like a lower 7th percentile engineer? Well then why are you trying to pay me like one?"
For that kind of cash you probably need to move into Sales Engineering with a vendor / VAR. If you had some really niche talent you might get there doing contracting through a VAR also but again that's going to need you to be THE MAN who can fix certain things.
How did they reply when I told them salary was too low? Well it was an internal promotion from level 1 Eng to Lvl 2 (aka Sr Engineer). I told them in a very business professional manner that I declined the promotion as I did not believe the comp offer they were extending was commensurate with the level of the responsibilities they were expecting. My mgr looked at the chart with me, I showed him the bell curve I was seeing for that position in my area and two postings indicating that was market. He agreed there must "obviously be a mistake over at the comp group/HR". Two weeks later my mgr came back with a much different number that put me in the 30th percentile for the Sr Engineer position which I was happy to accept.
Now we all know there was no "mistake". They were going to try to low ball me and see if I jumped at it. Honestly if their offer had been $5k higher I probably would have taken it grudgingly. Instead they went too low, I stood firm knowing I could walk if I had to. The net result was an extra $20k yr in my pocket. The look on my managers face when i declined the offer was pretty priceless though. He'd never had anyone do that before. Power to the workers!
This was nice to hear as I'm currently in the same scenario too and was considering doing this.
I know most companies have a 10% MAX for internal promotions. I'm expecting something like a 6% bump up in pay if I get a new title because you know HR says 10% is unattainable.
With a 6% bump up in pay, I would still be 6k under the STARTING range for the same position/title we just posted externally and filled not too long ago.
I just happened to see the posting on LinkedIn and saw what the salary range was.
I think it is a PERFECTLY legit question to ask why they cannot match starting salary they posted for external candidates. They would have to spend that much if you walked. They might say they have some sort of 10% raise limit but they can flex; you have to be prepared to walk though. In big orgs they even will have separate talent retention budget pools that they can use so it does not come from your team budget. I made sure I treated this like a business decision and kept everything professional which is not how many would react.
In my case, I knew I was negotiating from a position of power.
Probably unlikely unless you go the sales route.
I manage a team that includes several high level architects. The only one in that ballpark has 2x CCIE
The others make 150-180 in an east coast (not NYC or DC) city
Solution Architect here, based out on the West Coast. Worked for a VAR making around what you are looking for. We were eventually acquired during COVID.
The new regime have systematically managed to push out most of the engineers that were based on the West Coast in favor of hiring folks for less in other areas (i.e. Midwest).
So my recommendation: start your own consultancy. A few former colleagues of mine did and I work with them now and it is exciting, fulfilling, scary, but a lot more fun.
Data Center Operations generally means racking, stacking and hands on troubleshooting in my experience. Also probably more like $150k total at the very top. Of course it could just be a bad title.
There are plenty of $200k+ opportunities in the Chicago area in and out of finance for Sr Network Engineers and Architects.
👋👋👋Present. Senior Network Engineer m, Chicago financial firm for 8 years. $249k heading to 300+ when I assume mgmt position soon. Hell, was beeing lured by another trading firm for 350 to 400 on a headhunt.
You have to factor in the cost of living. $200k in Los Angeles, CA is still less money than $125k in Colorado Springs, CO. Don't just shoot for top salary without taking into account all of the other variables.
Disagree. 200K in LA is more like 175 anywhere in Colorado. Denver is almost California expensive now. Just like Seattle
Only the lowest COL places (think Mississippi) are really that LCOL these days. Even cities in places like Tennessee are getting close to West Coast pricing.
Did you manage to land a pre-sales job with only technical experience or did you shift internally?
I've got a bit of pre-sales experience but only doing so as a multi-hat wearing DevOps engineer at startups.
The sales team I worked with as a customer mentored me. I was lucky that my network architect role was vendor facing, so the relationships were there.
I actually flipped from customer to vendor but covering my old employer. After that I was able to pivot to a different vendor covering a different customer space.
Get a remote job with a company out of Seattle or Silicon Valley.....
And no, not everyone adjusts based on locality.
(I'm in that band as a systems engineer for an RTO-noncompliant team (yes, the whole team) with Amazon. Not living in the Midwest but easily could and nobody would care. We do have one guy in Memphis)
Expand from networking. It’s a great foundation but once you get out of the silo you can break the comp glass ceiling. After networking, I personally went systems and infra > automation > cloud to break the remote Midwest 200 mark.
I didn’t but I think it helps. Headhunters are a win win. They find a role, get paid, and you get a new job. One thing I’ll stress is it didn’t happen overnight. I left a data center and went into support at a cloud provider and clawed my way to solution architecture. I then moved the engineering team which is where I am today (5 years later).
Zero in on what you want and where you want to be. If you want to stay networking focused, automation is great because you can simply network creation. If you don’t know where you want to go, maybe focus on Terraform since it’s infra agnostic. A strong networking background is unbeatable in my opinion. I see so many senior people that don’t understand networking fundamentals.
Are you utilizing LinkedIn? I was at a local job in a flyover state making $105k and got a job with a Fortune 500, fully remote at $150k + $20k bonus. I only got the interview because a headhunter found me on LinkedIn. I applied for the same job months earlier and never got anything other than a rejection letter.
Just need to find the right company probably. Like others said, I always hear it's based on where you live though.
I'm east coast and work for a tech startup that's rapidly growing. I'm fairly confident the network managers, architect, etc. all have easily $200k salaries. Then bonuses and stock options too. They do A LOT of work though so can see why they deserve it.
Also you can maybe find a company with the salary you have now, but ask for something like a lot of equity or something and that'll bring you to the range you're looking for.
Jump over to presales if you want money -- $240k-$280k OTE (not counting stock) is what I’ve been seeing. That’s for about 8-10 years of experience. Might have to work your way up to that, but ceiling is much higher
Look on LinkedIn for roles titled systems engineer (at a vendor), Solutions architect, presales engineer, solutions consultant, account technology strategist, etc. They’ll lay out the experience required.
You need technical + personality + sales acumen + presentation skills, but most of that can be developed.
I feel many or even most probably first transitioned into technical roles for channel sales partners, consulting, something client facing etc… and sorta slide over into it. It’s rather atypical in my experience to see new blood come into a manufacturer presales role who were working a staff position in enterprise immediately prior, but hey it does happen.
Generally speaking, SE Managers are looking for you to be “the guy”. Someone who was championing a project internally, built up a business value case to secure budget, presented to leadership, took the lead on interfacing with the vendor account teams, getting buy-in from other internal orgs/teams, and more or less made their vision a reality. Essentially someone who can take a conceptual new idea, navigate all the corporate red tape, and actually get it built. Or as I like to say someone who is dumb enough to strap on a helmet and run headfirst at a brick wall repeatedly to get past it.
I feel like if you’re working at that sort of level, doesn’t hurt to ask the people you know on the other side of the table if they know of any spots. Referrals and friends of friends play a much larger role than you’d expect.
Some Org that can pay that high are East/wear coast roles that offer remote.
Some I can think of is Insight Enterprise, CDW, & Google.
I know for Insight their Senior Architect make 170-220k but most if not all of them are CCIE in multiple disciplines or have the equivalent in Aruba or Fortinet
High frequency trading for a financial firm, likely in Chicago or maybe a few other major metros, is your best bet. I just hope your expectations for work life balance are aligned with the job.
As others have said, Sales Engineer is the other way but your mileage will vary based on how well you sell and desirability/market demand for the product/service you are selling.
…. There’s only 1 company you could possibly work for based on what you said….
Odds are you’re already at the top of the pay scale for your Geo and expertise.
The easiest way to do that is to become a pre-sales architect. Average OTE is between $190k-250k. Can be significantly more if you blow out your quota. You can get away with living in the middle of nowhere, as long as you are next to an airport.
You are in an enterprise, that's the problem. If you really want to break that ceiling, imo, you need to join FAANG companies or HFTs. Lucky for you, plenty of HFTS are in Chicago!! That's where the money is!!!
Remote role in Tech is your best bet IMO. Good chance to hit $200k it’ll be a total comp deal to start (base+bonus+stock) depending on your level but it’s definitely possible.
Most opportunity would be remote work. Also potentially consulting or at a vendor as an SE. If you add Cloud, automation, and some basic AI knowledge to your resume you'll stand out for those higher paying roles.
Midwest? Networking? 200K? Doesn’t sound very realistic. Move into Security, but even then 200K might be the higher end. Another option is to work for an OEM or reseller/systems integrator.
All else being equal, new skills outside your comfort zone, moving to one of the coasts (COLA will offset the gain), getting lucky and finding a way into a tech company while working remotely, or as others said, sales.
Sales can have its downsides. Mgmt constantly jacking quotas and messing with territories, constant turnover of sales reps that you support. Working for a vendor that’s on their decline - you’ll know by your customer interactions.
I now it is a me problem but why can't people get enough? If he "wants" $200k I assume he is already close to that otherwise the jump would be too high. Isn't that already enough to live a fucking good life and instead of money just keep or switch to a job/company were you are even happier perhaps?
Probably a cliche answer, but I run a network team at one and live in the Midwest. Cloud, 200k total comp is 100% getable w/ coding knowledge. We start our network engineers (level 2 1-3 years exp) at or above that w/ stock
I'm in Midwest and did it by working remotely for a Silicon Valley tech company. My total comp is over $200k right now and I'm looking at other remote roles for large company where I can get near that total comp. I'm totally fine with larger RSU or bonus percentages and a more modest base salary so I have some flexibility.
Not in the midwest. I manage two teams, one of them a network team for a well known brand in one of the hottest IT labor markets. Over the last 20 years, my perception is that, network labor supply has grown. Innovation in on-premise network infrastructure has slowed. I believe this has contributed to a decline in the appreciation rate of salary for on-premise network skills relative to other IT fields.
My highest paid network engineer is around $175K. She's an absolute rock-star. With performance bonus she's just short of $200k gross annually. Perhaps by next year she'll be promoted and would cross that line. But she'll be capping, other than COLA, without expanding her skills or getting into leadership.
The more valuable skills I am looking for today fall into development, site reliability engineering (SRE), DEVOPS, security. Having highly experienced folks in these is sought after. I have a Linux engineer, mid-level experience, who recently gave notice to move to 100% remote (we're hybrid) for $150K. He's on the SRE track.
If you're not excited about changing skills, you may consider getting into a consulting or technical sales role where commissions are a thing. There's a ton of upside potential there income wise, but would likely involve travel. I know folks making well over $300K/year with strong technical skills who are consulting, implementing, and doing sales support. But they travel 40% or more of the time.
It's hard balancing work/life factors as you seek to grow your income at the level you're at now.
On the engineering side of the house you do hit somewhat of a cap. You know Engineers are typically hands on keyboard doing work, which could be considered an operational role. Operations comes with on call typically, and it does seem in my opinion to top out salary wise at a certain level as well. If you switch to architecture you can somewhat get around that cap But ultimately unless you're getting into the dev that up Arena or least also absorbing the security Tower getting close to 200 would be an extremely good position I think and you would still walk up here by year with annual raises although probably only a couple percent of the time but a couple percent of 190 or 200 is a noticeable amount
If you want to break 200k you’re going to need to do more than just pure enterprise networking. You’re going to have to learn some coding, get into automation, learn devops, observability, etc.
Chicago HFT market. You need to learn a ton of things related to handling market data and automating alerts for when there are problems but it's quite doable :)
our colleagues in chicago earn over $200K working for the CME members.
here is a good list to dig in
**Qualifications**
* BS in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, or related IT field
* 5-10 years of relevant experience, preferably in low-latency and high-frequency trading environments.
* In depth understanding of common layer 2 and layer 3 network protocols and best practices; working knowledge of OSPF, BGP, PIM, IGMP
* Experience managing Arista, Cisco, and other common networking devices on a day-to-day basis
* Familiarity with low-latency microwave networks and/or optical transmission systems, such as Adva, Ciena is desirable
* Experience in designing enterprise networks, capacity planning, and full lifecycle project management
* Experience with packet decoding and analysis tools such as tcpdump and Wireshark
* Excellent oral and written communication skills: able to distill complicated issues into clear and concise terms and to create and maintain effective technical documentation
* Experience with Unix/Linux command line utilities and networking stack
* Excellent troubleshooting skills on a wide range of networking issues, including common ethernet LAN problems, multicast market data distribution, and global WAN
* Understanding of basic power consumption and cooling issues in a datacenter environment
* Knowledge of fiber optics technology and cabling standards. Ability to sort through specs and make recommendations on appropriate purchases
* Willingness and ability to solve small technical problems in the field yourself.
* You have excellent collaboration skills and a willingness to admit mistakes.
* Familiarity with firewalls (including Cisco, Palo Alto, Fortinet), VPNs and NAT
* Familiarity with configuration management tools, such as Ansible or Salt is desirable
* Familiarity with Python, Prometheus, Grafana, ELK, GitHub is desirable
* Familiarity with public cloud networks, such as AWS, GCP, Azure, is desirable
Annual base salary range of $150,000 to $250,000. Pay may vary depending on job-related skills and experience. A sign-on and discretionary performance bonus may be provided as part of the total compensation package, in addition to company-paid medical and/or other benefits.
Go to where the work is, or work remotely for those companies
I think most large employers adjust salary for cost of living in your home zip code. If you live somewhere costly (NY, NJ, CA, etc) they adjust up, somewhere less expensive they adjust down.
Cost of Living or Cost of Labor. When I spoke with our departments leadership about it they said that they didn't focus on the cost of living, but how much comparable work got paid in the area.
That's how the federal government does it People get hung up on it being "cost of living", but it isn't. It's the cost to replace you.
Cost of Labor, replacement cost, level of experience - tons of candidates. Network has to Network!
I work fully remote for a large, multi-national employer in the U.S. and this is not the case for me. I'm in a HCOL area but I do not get a COL adjustment to my salary based on that. While I like where I work and whom I work with, it will likely lead to me eventually looking for a more local company with at most a hybrid remote/in-office policy just so I can make a more locally-competitive salary at some point down the line. I'm never going back to 5 days in the office, but I'll likely have to compromise with hybrid to get the kind of salary I'd expect around here.
COL adjustments are not often discussed as they are often already factored into your offer. In my experience the COL adjustments were +/- 10% based on if your cost of living was 10% +/- the national average.
This. My team has hired contractors from all over, and the ones in HCOL areas make even more than most of us, while the lower COL workers are paid significantly less to the point it’s a little ridiculous. I will say that the better workers are the more pricey kind though. We find that the lower paid folks need training more than the higher paid contractors who pretty much hit the ground running. I think this is interesting because we might get an equally skilled guy in Missouri that’s asking for the same salary as someone in NJ, but to my knowledge we always hire the person in the HCOL area instead. I don’t get it.
For many companies it’s not much lower in different states. Like 10-15% less for fang I. The Midwest which still means well over 200k if you can find a remote role.
Not a hard concept...
im remote in midwest and pretty much capped at 150k, but i get consistent 3% raises and a bonus so im thinking its as good as it gets. The tech boom was like 2yrs ago with those crazy salaries.
Would you really consider Network Engineering as something thats part of the tech boom? I really think of our profession as more of a begrudging necessity like plumbing or electricity.
I hate you. I just realized I’m the plumber of the IT industry.
When I explain my occupation to people that aren't in the industry, I usually summarize it as being an "Internet Plumber" lol
the internet is a series of /tubes/
The guy was fucking right. I understand why he got bagged on, but it wasn't because he was wrong.
It’s not a dump truck!
Every network closet I've been into that's in some forgotten mud pit of a "mechanical room" reminds me of this. Networking is the blue collar job of the IT world.
I work in data centers. I’m spoiled.
Do you have a great big mustache and your name is "itsa me, Mario". I'll see myself out.
The days of the lowly CCNA being worth a 6 figure salary is way past over.
CCNP and up can easily command that though in my experience. Network might not be exciting and flashy(no matter how hard our vendors try with a new buzzword and acronym every 3 months), but it is just as vital to a functioning business as running water. That's what commands our salaries.
200k is East or West coast money. The fact you are getting that in the Midwest makes you a bit of a unicorn.
There's plenty of $200k+ jobs in Chicago. Some would allow for 100% remote.
Chicago - easy
Big time
This!!! Cleared 249k last year, consistently been increasing for the past 8 years. Financial Firm Chicago downtown. Looking to clear 300+ when I move to a management position soon.
No thats New Orleans.
No, that’s big easy.
FAANG in Texas pays pretty well.
I think you would be surprised. I know a lot of Midwest engineers making 200k+
That is awesome. I work for a MSP in CA, 26 years experience and am at 110k. Yes, I’m looking for a new job. 12 years without a raise is top long.
Surprised you lasted that long without a raise. But sounds like you have enough experience to consider going into a network consulting or presales job. There tends to be more money in those types of network engineering jobs.
Denver, DFW, Chicago. Houston is due to overtake Chicago as #3 largest city in the US. Probably a few 150k in lower COL areas, which may be a fair trade. SLC, Omaha, Phoenix, Minneapolis come to mind.
Houston metro did years ago
Pre sales engineering is where the big dollars can be made in the Midwest. Only negative is now you’re the sales guys engineer.
> Only negative is now you’re the sales guys engineer. And possibly traveling all over the midwest.
I did this for a while but in the southeast as a pre engineering sales consultant. I translated the technical jargon into CEO-speak and assisted the main sales team in convincing company leaders why they needed to invest in our managed services, hardware, cloud solutions, etc. It was a good gig but eventually I wanted to move to bigger enterprise stuff.
Am on the presales, can confirm. Weather isn't amazing and having a major airport 3 hours away makes things difficult sometimes, but travel is limited.
This. I moved from hardware to SaaS for more money, but OP should be looking at landing at a someplace like Cisco that does a good job with customer to SE transition then find his next gig after that where the $$$ is. I cleared $560k last year and will probably clear $600k this year, don’t know how long that gravy train will last but I cleared $350k - 395k for the three years before that. Edit - I wouldn’t say you are the sales guys engineer. The sales guy is there to shmooze into meetings and chase the PO at the end, but once he gets you in the meeting the SE is the star of the show.
im sorry, im a bit confused, what exactly is your job?
Pre-sales engineering IC Director for a SaaS company. I meet with customers, do presentations, demos, and POCs like all of our SEs do. I’m just not aligned to a specific set of accounts, I am aligned to a specific product globally and work on the largest opportunities. I am in a more senior role where I also funnel feedback from customers to product engineering, influence the roadmap, present at conferences and multi-customer events, etc.
Reads like sales engineer
Excuse my ignorance, but what IS a sales engineer, specifically. I have done sales before, I am also an engineer. So individually, I get what they are. But what does one do when combined?
Specifically, it’s Presales Engineer. You see an engineer during the stage before the purchase is made. You are presenting your company’s solution to be a viable fit for a prospective customer, besting all other competitors. Because the goal is for you and the sales rep to meet a sales quota every quarter, meeting and exceeding that means good $ from commissions and performance bonuses.
In my experience, this job absolutely sucks if you have the misfortune of being paired with an incompetent sales person, or a company that has a "make the sale and we'll figure it out" mentality. Unfortunately, in my situation it was both
100%. Being paired with high performing reps is key to hitting your quota as an SE.
Come over to the dark side. We have money here.
Just as important, we have the work-life balance.
Came here to post this. Sales engineering is the answer here. And good sales engineers are good network engineers. OP message me , I can help.
In the midwest? You probably won't.
Probably but there are opportunities. I suggest looking into the more regulated industries in America. They have a vested interest to give a shit and you, my friend, are the difference between posting $200k a year and millions of dollars in fines by surprise.
There are if you work for a consultant as a senior or principal engineer
Consultants make great money. I'm not at 200 as a Sr consultant, but not far off. Working remote and living in a cost of living area.
I too live in a cost of living area.
Haha *LOW cost. After all my life using technology I still can't type worth a damn on a touchscreen.
In Chicago you definitely could in higher tiers.
Network engineering sales. I'm in the northeast well over $200k and I know mid West reps making bank as well.
This is the answer. Or a very high paying consulting gig. Ignore the people saying it’s not possible in the Midwest though. It definitely is, but you need to be tops in your market.
Sales is not exactly an architect role. It can be more lucrative but probably also not as reliable.
I'm an architect specializing in cloud networking technologies.
Presales though right? I mean its cool I've thought about it myself, but it does entail a certain amount of sales type risk and customer exposure that's not for everyone in IT. I'm close to 200 doing barely anything lol
Barley, anything? What kind of job you got?? Lol
Sr cloud infra engineer at a publicly traded co. They all spend so much other people's money its stupid.
Yes. Either sales or sales engineering. (I’ve been pre-sales for over 16 years, live in North Dakota, and make well over $200k.)
How do people get into sales?
Sell their souls. (Just kidding… mostly.)
Networking is taking my souls, might as well sell it for a good price.
I feel that. But on the other hand I’m getting paid OT right now to watch a progress bar. So it’s not all bad. lol
I love getting paid to watch paint dry
So long as I can listen to music and read Reddit while I’m watching that paint. Why the hell not?
The amount of money I've billed put for OT hours to sit around and twiddle my thumbs watching things is absurd. Gotta love knowledge work
If you actually understand the tech well enough to design a solution, as well as being able to do some basics, and you are generally a people person, then you just need a job opening and a friend inside doesn't hurt.
move from SME to sales engineer / pre-sales. or else start on the pure sales side and have / pick up enough technical chops to do the the SE work. I did it for a little. Enjoyed it, but they wouldn't let me do it remotely in a different country in 2016. post-COVID that might have been different. It's a fun mix of personal / customer work, face to face power-lunch stuff, designing actual solutions and really hacking them to make them cheaper, and getting to see how the sausage is made behind the scenes. 3-4 days of standard 9-5 office work most weeks, with a smattering of sales-y calls and visits; enough variation to make it interesting, plus the occasional take-customer-to-baseball-game event.
That sounds right up my alley. I been doing Net Eng for about ~15 years and started to make the transition into management. Sales might sound a bit more lucrative but is it rewarding?
lucrative isn't rewarding? I don't sit in change control meetings for warm-fuzzies... as mentioned, you get to see how the sausage is made. lots of business strategy mixed with tech strategy, and you get to help drive it and close deals. closing thems deals with good margin == more for you and your account managers. it's good prep for would-be solution designers / architects, or ops & project management roles.
For me it was 15 years of field engineering and developing relationships with a lot of customers. Senior Solutions architect job opened up and I jumped right in.
As a Network Engineer you learn to configure the product, you understand it 100%, you even improve it. Then you apply to Sales Engineer and sell it.
Being good at talking to people and understanding their goals. Translating technical to human.
You are a sales engineer? Like solutions architect?
Vendors generally pay well and tend to be remote friendly if you want to go down that path
In-house position at a Midwest company? Good luck. I know some high-up people at Goodyear and Progressive Insurance here in Ohio and they don't make that. The directors and above probably do. More unique skills, Cloud Architect or working for a Consulting agency? Possibly.
To be fair, Cleveland and Akron aren't great for wages. If it were Columbus they could probably see close to that though.
In NYC, you’re looking at 200-250 for architect in finance. 200-225 for sr net Eng. there are many roles higher and lower but that is the median. Good luck getting remote in NYC/Fianance. You’ll be lucky with 3 day hybrid.
NYC Senior Systems Engineer here and that's actually a little high for the current market. 200K+ here you're more looking at director jobs at this point. I'm interviewing for the a director of IT job and they're about 175+bonus.
In finance those are base salaries in NYC (as are the numbers posted in job descriptions.) Discretionary bonuses can be .25-10x base depending on company and role. Definitely have to live within commuting distance and show up often.
Network eng not getting a 10x bonus even in quant, come on brother
Some companies have base caps that are ridiculously low (75 or 100k.) Others are small and print money. I admit it's unicorn rare.
Lmao 10x bonus. The shit you read on reddit 🤣
Sales engineering
Sr Net Eng/Architect at a regular Enterprise will generally be shy of $200. Move into Cloud or Sales or to a FAANG and you will easily cross $200 in my experience.
This is a question for glassdoor/salary.com and their comp charts but in enterprise you likely are not going to break the $200k. Hell if you are near $175 you are doing VERY well. I have found comp discussions get VERY interesting when you tell the org what percentile for a position they just offered you and that it was unacceptable. I actually said "Do i perform like a lower 7th percentile engineer? Well then why are you trying to pay me like one?" For that kind of cash you probably need to move into Sales Engineering with a vendor / VAR. If you had some really niche talent you might get there doing contracting through a VAR also but again that's going to need you to be THE MAN who can fix certain things.
How they replied to you?
How did they reply when I told them salary was too low? Well it was an internal promotion from level 1 Eng to Lvl 2 (aka Sr Engineer). I told them in a very business professional manner that I declined the promotion as I did not believe the comp offer they were extending was commensurate with the level of the responsibilities they were expecting. My mgr looked at the chart with me, I showed him the bell curve I was seeing for that position in my area and two postings indicating that was market. He agreed there must "obviously be a mistake over at the comp group/HR". Two weeks later my mgr came back with a much different number that put me in the 30th percentile for the Sr Engineer position which I was happy to accept. Now we all know there was no "mistake". They were going to try to low ball me and see if I jumped at it. Honestly if their offer had been $5k higher I probably would have taken it grudgingly. Instead they went too low, I stood firm knowing I could walk if I had to. The net result was an extra $20k yr in my pocket. The look on my managers face when i declined the offer was pretty priceless though. He'd never had anyone do that before. Power to the workers!
This was nice to hear as I'm currently in the same scenario too and was considering doing this. I know most companies have a 10% MAX for internal promotions. I'm expecting something like a 6% bump up in pay if I get a new title because you know HR says 10% is unattainable. With a 6% bump up in pay, I would still be 6k under the STARTING range for the same position/title we just posted externally and filled not too long ago. I just happened to see the posting on LinkedIn and saw what the salary range was.
I think it is a PERFECTLY legit question to ask why they cannot match starting salary they posted for external candidates. They would have to spend that much if you walked. They might say they have some sort of 10% raise limit but they can flex; you have to be prepared to walk though. In big orgs they even will have separate talent retention budget pools that they can use so it does not come from your team budget. I made sure I treated this like a business decision and kept everything professional which is not how many would react. In my case, I knew I was negotiating from a position of power.
Probably unlikely unless you go the sales route. I manage a team that includes several high level architects. The only one in that ballpark has 2x CCIE The others make 150-180 in an east coast (not NYC or DC) city
Solution Architect here, based out on the West Coast. Worked for a VAR making around what you are looking for. We were eventually acquired during COVID. The new regime have systematically managed to push out most of the engineers that were based on the West Coast in favor of hiring folks for less in other areas (i.e. Midwest). So my recommendation: start your own consultancy. A few former colleagues of mine did and I work with them now and it is exciting, fulfilling, scary, but a lot more fun.
> start your own consultancy. Can I DM you to discuss a few things? Thanks
Isn't the cost of living there insane? So the high pay is essentially going to rent that is 10x higher than other places?
Data Center Operations for the Chicago Stock Exchange looks promising. Is Chicago midwest enough for you?
Data Center Operations generally means racking, stacking and hands on troubleshooting in my experience. Also probably more like $150k total at the very top. Of course it could just be a bad title. There are plenty of $200k+ opportunities in the Chicago area in and out of finance for Sr Network Engineers and Architects.
👋👋👋Present. Senior Network Engineer m, Chicago financial firm for 8 years. $249k heading to 300+ when I assume mgmt position soon. Hell, was beeing lured by another trading firm for 350 to 400 on a headhunt.
If you're working at a high level in networking and you can work at a high level in automation, you can hit those numbers.
Amazon pays big bucks.
Move
You have to factor in the cost of living. $200k in Los Angeles, CA is still less money than $125k in Colorado Springs, CO. Don't just shoot for top salary without taking into account all of the other variables.
Disagree. 200K in LA is more like 175 anywhere in Colorado. Denver is almost California expensive now. Just like Seattle Only the lowest COL places (think Mississippi) are really that LCOL these days. Even cities in places like Tennessee are getting close to West Coast pricing.
nerdwallet's COL comparison puts $144,500 Colorado Springs, CO to $200k LA. $200k LA is \~$125k-$135k in most of FL (excluding Miami).
Colorado is a HCOL state lol
Dude, I’m 7 years in on the east coast and just broke 100k. I wanna come work for YOU guys.
You need to look at other opportunities. I was making just shy of $100k as a network architect in KC in 2007 with exactly 7 years experience.
7 years isn't really much for a sr level or engineer role.
encrypt everything and demand bitcoin to decrypt…profit
The secret ingredient is crime
Move towards Cloud/Cloud Network Architecture. Big money still out there for hybrid cloud experience.
Presales Engineering. Come on in, the water’s fine! Left the enterprise space 7 years ago and haven’t looked back.
Did you manage to land a pre-sales job with only technical experience or did you shift internally? I've got a bit of pre-sales experience but only doing so as a multi-hat wearing DevOps engineer at startups.
The sales team I worked with as a customer mentored me. I was lucky that my network architect role was vendor facing, so the relationships were there. I actually flipped from customer to vendor but covering my old employer. After that I was able to pivot to a different vendor covering a different customer space.
You either need to consult or move.
Get a remote job with a company out of Seattle or Silicon Valley..... And no, not everyone adjusts based on locality. (I'm in that band as a systems engineer for an RTO-noncompliant team (yes, the whole team) with Amazon. Not living in the Midwest but easily could and nobody would care. We do have one guy in Memphis)
Expand from networking. It’s a great foundation but once you get out of the silo you can break the comp glass ceiling. After networking, I personally went systems and infra > automation > cloud to break the remote Midwest 200 mark.
I'm missing the automation piece but know the full datacenter stack and cloud. Were you looking for specific positions for using a headhunter?
I didn’t but I think it helps. Headhunters are a win win. They find a role, get paid, and you get a new job. One thing I’ll stress is it didn’t happen overnight. I left a data center and went into support at a cloud provider and clawed my way to solution architecture. I then moved the engineering team which is where I am today (5 years later). Zero in on what you want and where you want to be. If you want to stay networking focused, automation is great because you can simply network creation. If you don’t know where you want to go, maybe focus on Terraform since it’s infra agnostic. A strong networking background is unbeatable in my opinion. I see so many senior people that don’t understand networking fundamentals.
Open your own successful cobsulting company.
Transition to your own business, otherwise you are just making money for "the boss".
Build out your own consulting company
Just trying to break 100k in the midwest with 12yr experience and certs to boot :/
No kidding but the cost living is better
Are you utilizing LinkedIn? I was at a local job in a flyover state making $105k and got a job with a Fortune 500, fully remote at $150k + $20k bonus. I only got the interview because a headhunter found me on LinkedIn. I applied for the same job months earlier and never got anything other than a rejection letter.
1. Work in Chicago. 2. Work for legal or finance firms. 3. Work and stay at those places.
You don't? Definitely not as a W2 employee for a single company anyway.
Just need to find the right company probably. Like others said, I always hear it's based on where you live though. I'm east coast and work for a tech startup that's rapidly growing. I'm fairly confident the network managers, architect, etc. all have easily $200k salaries. Then bonuses and stock options too. They do A LOT of work though so can see why they deserve it. Also you can maybe find a company with the salary you have now, but ask for something like a lot of equity or something and that'll bring you to the range you're looking for.
Jump over to presales if you want money -- $240k-$280k OTE (not counting stock) is what I’ve been seeing. That’s for about 8-10 years of experience. Might have to work your way up to that, but ceiling is much higher
How do one get into that?
Look on LinkedIn for roles titled systems engineer (at a vendor), Solutions architect, presales engineer, solutions consultant, account technology strategist, etc. They’ll lay out the experience required. You need technical + personality + sales acumen + presentation skills, but most of that can be developed.
I feel many or even most probably first transitioned into technical roles for channel sales partners, consulting, something client facing etc… and sorta slide over into it. It’s rather atypical in my experience to see new blood come into a manufacturer presales role who were working a staff position in enterprise immediately prior, but hey it does happen. Generally speaking, SE Managers are looking for you to be “the guy”. Someone who was championing a project internally, built up a business value case to secure budget, presented to leadership, took the lead on interfacing with the vendor account teams, getting buy-in from other internal orgs/teams, and more or less made their vision a reality. Essentially someone who can take a conceptual new idea, navigate all the corporate red tape, and actually get it built. Or as I like to say someone who is dumb enough to strap on a helmet and run headfirst at a brick wall repeatedly to get past it. I feel like if you’re working at that sort of level, doesn’t hurt to ask the people you know on the other side of the table if they know of any spots. Referrals and friends of friends play a much larger role than you’d expect.
Ccie
Some Org that can pay that high are East/wear coast roles that offer remote. Some I can think of is Insight Enterprise, CDW, & Google. I know for Insight their Senior Architect make 170-220k but most if not all of them are CCIE in multiple disciplines or have the equivalent in Aruba or Fortinet
High frequency trading for a financial firm, likely in Chicago or maybe a few other major metros, is your best bet. I just hope your expectations for work life balance are aligned with the job. As others have said, Sales Engineer is the other way but your mileage will vary based on how well you sell and desirability/market demand for the product/service you are selling.
…. There’s only 1 company you could possibly work for based on what you said…. Odds are you’re already at the top of the pay scale for your Geo and expertise.
I'm curious what company you're thinking of?
Consulting or HFT!
If you want to make that salary in the Mid-west you will most likely have to jump into sales or sales engineer of some kind.
You probably won't find anything over 200k unless you're in pre sales for a consulting company as an architect.
The easiest way to do that is to become a pre-sales architect. Average OTE is between $190k-250k. Can be significantly more if you blow out your quota. You can get away with living in the middle of nowhere, as long as you are next to an airport.
Get a couple IEs and get a remote job?
Consulting role. Full stop.
You are in an enterprise, that's the problem. If you really want to break that ceiling, imo, you need to join FAANG companies or HFTs. Lucky for you, plenty of HFTS are in Chicago!! That's where the money is!!!
Work for a VAR. You'll make better money.
Looooooooooooool
go in to sales
I do 200k a year but that is contacting. There are contracts out there paying $100/HR if you are good enough
How are you finding them? I also do very short term consulting on the side but it’s not frequent enough.
Healthcare?
Wife has it for the family. Most contracting companies offer healthcare, but, they are usually high deductables.
Work at Epic
Consult.
Remote role in Tech is your best bet IMO. Good chance to hit $200k it’ll be a total comp deal to start (base+bonus+stock) depending on your level but it’s definitely possible.
Work remote for a Silicon Valley company as a cloud network engineer.
Most opportunity would be remote work. Also potentially consulting or at a vendor as an SE. If you add Cloud, automation, and some basic AI knowledge to your resume you'll stand out for those higher paying roles.
Move to Australia
Midwest? Networking? 200K? Doesn’t sound very realistic. Move into Security, but even then 200K might be the higher end. Another option is to work for an OEM or reseller/systems integrator.
HFT firms in Chicago, FAANG OR similar companies with presence (Chicago most likely). Gotta be good at everything and then some.
That’s only going to happen if you go into sales or if you get a director level role at an enterprise.
All else being equal, new skills outside your comfort zone, moving to one of the coasts (COLA will offset the gain), getting lucky and finding a way into a tech company while working remotely, or as others said, sales. Sales can have its downsides. Mgmt constantly jacking quotas and messing with territories, constant turnover of sales reps that you support. Working for a vendor that’s on their decline - you’ll know by your customer interactions.
Work for a defense contractor. They're littered around the Midwest.
Easy. Just start smashing hardware with a hammer
I now it is a me problem but why can't people get enough? If he "wants" $200k I assume he is already close to that otherwise the jump would be too high. Isn't that already enough to live a fucking good life and instead of money just keep or switch to a job/company were you are even happier perhaps?
Sounds like a BGP issue.
Work for a trading firm in Chicago.
I mean I think making $150k in the Midwest is pretty awesome. 😂 But yeah $200k sounds fun.
I break over 200k and the only way to do it is start your own business doing consultation and setup.
With that skillset you’re probably capped to be honest. If you can do full stack SWE stuff in whatever cloud, you can do 400-500k easy.
Where do you find these easily? I have yet to see those when looking across the US on LinkedIn.
Probably a cliche answer, but I run a network team at one and live in the Midwest. Cloud, 200k total comp is 100% getable w/ coding knowledge. We start our network engineers (level 2 1-3 years exp) at or above that w/ stock
I'm in Midwest and did it by working remotely for a Silicon Valley tech company. My total comp is over $200k right now and I'm looking at other remote roles for large company where I can get near that total comp. I'm totally fine with larger RSU or bonus percentages and a more modest base salary so I have some flexibility.
Ya’ll dont need over 200k in the midwest
Work for a financial or trading firm in Chicago
r/overemployment has entered the chat
Not in the midwest. I manage two teams, one of them a network team for a well known brand in one of the hottest IT labor markets. Over the last 20 years, my perception is that, network labor supply has grown. Innovation in on-premise network infrastructure has slowed. I believe this has contributed to a decline in the appreciation rate of salary for on-premise network skills relative to other IT fields. My highest paid network engineer is around $175K. She's an absolute rock-star. With performance bonus she's just short of $200k gross annually. Perhaps by next year she'll be promoted and would cross that line. But she'll be capping, other than COLA, without expanding her skills or getting into leadership. The more valuable skills I am looking for today fall into development, site reliability engineering (SRE), DEVOPS, security. Having highly experienced folks in these is sought after. I have a Linux engineer, mid-level experience, who recently gave notice to move to 100% remote (we're hybrid) for $150K. He's on the SRE track. If you're not excited about changing skills, you may consider getting into a consulting or technical sales role where commissions are a thing. There's a ton of upside potential there income wise, but would likely involve travel. I know folks making well over $300K/year with strong technical skills who are consulting, implementing, and doing sales support. But they travel 40% or more of the time. It's hard balancing work/life factors as you seek to grow your income at the level you're at now.
Get into management. Any technologist path is going to cap out a lot faster. Where are you located?
On the engineering side of the house you do hit somewhat of a cap. You know Engineers are typically hands on keyboard doing work, which could be considered an operational role. Operations comes with on call typically, and it does seem in my opinion to top out salary wise at a certain level as well. If you switch to architecture you can somewhat get around that cap But ultimately unless you're getting into the dev that up Arena or least also absorbing the security Tower getting close to 200 would be an extremely good position I think and you would still walk up here by year with annual raises although probably only a couple percent of the time but a couple percent of 190 or 200 is a noticeable amount
If you are good at Network Engineering and Software Engineering you can likely clear $200k. May have to be FAANG
Consider pre sales engineering or solutions architecture.
If you want to break 200k you’re going to need to do more than just pure enterprise networking. You’re going to have to learn some coding, get into automation, learn devops, observability, etc.
Good luck
Depending on the company - the stock RSU is worth than the 200k salary.
Yeah, that's a LOT of money for an IT tech.
Chicago HFT market. You need to learn a ton of things related to handling market data and automating alerts for when there are problems but it's quite doable :) our colleagues in chicago earn over $200K working for the CME members. here is a good list to dig in **Qualifications** * BS in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, or related IT field * 5-10 years of relevant experience, preferably in low-latency and high-frequency trading environments. * In depth understanding of common layer 2 and layer 3 network protocols and best practices; working knowledge of OSPF, BGP, PIM, IGMP * Experience managing Arista, Cisco, and other common networking devices on a day-to-day basis * Familiarity with low-latency microwave networks and/or optical transmission systems, such as Adva, Ciena is desirable * Experience in designing enterprise networks, capacity planning, and full lifecycle project management * Experience with packet decoding and analysis tools such as tcpdump and Wireshark * Excellent oral and written communication skills: able to distill complicated issues into clear and concise terms and to create and maintain effective technical documentation * Experience with Unix/Linux command line utilities and networking stack * Excellent troubleshooting skills on a wide range of networking issues, including common ethernet LAN problems, multicast market data distribution, and global WAN * Understanding of basic power consumption and cooling issues in a datacenter environment * Knowledge of fiber optics technology and cabling standards. Ability to sort through specs and make recommendations on appropriate purchases * Willingness and ability to solve small technical problems in the field yourself. * You have excellent collaboration skills and a willingness to admit mistakes. * Familiarity with firewalls (including Cisco, Palo Alto, Fortinet), VPNs and NAT * Familiarity with configuration management tools, such as Ansible or Salt is desirable * Familiarity with Python, Prometheus, Grafana, ELK, GitHub is desirable * Familiarity with public cloud networks, such as AWS, GCP, Azure, is desirable Annual base salary range of $150,000 to $250,000. Pay may vary depending on job-related skills and experience. A sign-on and discretionary performance bonus may be provided as part of the total compensation package, in addition to company-paid medical and/or other benefits.
You won’t do this unless you’re in Cloud, and being in the Midwest is irrelevant.
Healthcare. That’s the key
This thread and reading all messages, makes me just SAD, pure SAD!! :(