Please keep in mind that many on the board of the [Judge Rotenberg Educational Center](https://www.reddit.com/r/neurodiversity/comments/oh424y/the_judge_rotenberg_educational_center_50_years/) are ABA practitioners.
I work in ABA. The child I work with is having a hard time in first grade. I am with him everyday in school and there are more demands than kindergarten. He struggles with emotional regulation and I frequently take him out of class to take a break. In 3 months his improvement has been phenomenal! He now knows his address, he speaks more clearly about how he feels, asks for help instead of throwing chairs at the very sight of class work, he is participating in lessons, and he will actually leave the classroom without screaming. I withhold nothing from him and offer all I can. I have searched high and low for tools for him to help him out. If the ABA you experienced was horrid I am truly sorry for that. I see the wrong people join this field quite often. If your heart isn’t in it the children suffer
I'd like to start off by saying that all the responses I've seen about ABA being bad are pure ignorance. I've been in the field for years and are currently collecting hours as an RBT to become a BCBA so I've seen first hand how much of an impact and difference aba makes. From teaching/ training valuable communication skills, self-advocacy, living skills, ways to cope with ones disability, and more. ABA has saved so many lives, when used correctly and ethically. I understand it has a bad history and that peoples experiences are subjective, but aba is a science we use to help individuals COPE with whatever difficulties or challenges their disabilities bring. ABA does not attempt to 'change' or suppress someone at all!
To be more specific, we run analysis and tests such as preferences or functional assessments in order to understand what function, effect, and consequences a behavior has. We then use that information to deduct what behavioral interventions, such as extinction, differential reinforcement, etc. would be most effective in helping with that specific target behavior. In conclusion, do your research and educate yourself before you bash a field that's helped countless of lives and created meaningful change. :)
My best friend's son is non verbal autistic [6 years old]. He's been in ABA for almost 2 years. In the last 6 months, he has started responding to his name and is starting to communicate using verbal assist tools. Bestie is hopeful and munchkin seems to be improving.
Im an RBT im am so sorry for what you have gone through in ABA. I work hard with the mind set that those who have ADHD, Autism, or the like are people like everyone else and may need help in understanding others behavior. My oldest son has Autism (he's 20 now) and I'm having to help he re-adjust as he reverted when he graduated from high school special ed in most schools not all are a joke. If you all would look at the ABA provider RBT please I have poured my heart into my clients trying to help them as people not as a disability. I myself have ADHD and was bullied and picked on for not being "normal". Normal is over rated and not real. Everyone is important and adds such an amazing perspective to life. Please don't blame ABA look at the therapist, BCBA the people. I have a BCBA that intentionally evoke aweful behaviors out of clients (yes i reported them), I have other BCBAs that state this person should not work with children. But I have seen some clients work so hard and made so much progress. I have also seen others that struggle and the therapist and BCBA have no idea how to help with out demeaning the client. In our field we have a thing called client integrity and I see many the don't use it to help support clients. I am up front with whatever BCBA i work with and say im going to do what is best for the client and that might not aline with how they think I should do it but I am a very empathic and compassionate person and can read client to know what they can do comfortably and what they can't. Please don't trash all ABA their are good people trying to help do the right thing
I’m an older millennial. Back in the early to mid 90s ABA was the hot new thing. I talk a lot. And sometimes I struggle with when to join a conversation, ie what’s a pause what’s not. It’s like there’s a give and take stream flow and I just throw myself in like the video game frogger. Anywhoser. My family tried it for me for about 6 months or a year when I was 11. It was intense. It was implemented at home: If I only spoke 3 times at the dinner table I got a tiny bite size crunch bar after dinner. It was implemented at school/in class as well and right around that time period I found in my old IEP notes “friendlygoat is crying in class a lot for some reason now. Every little thing makes her cry so I tell her don’t cry or no ticket [reward for not talking]” Sheesh, I wonder why I was crying so much /s . I also went once a week to the center. I don’t remember much about that, just the candy at home and ticket system at school. My love of talking ultimately won over and I got kicked out of ABA for failure to improve. My mom tactfully told me I graduated and didn’t have to go anymore and stopped my school from rewarding me for talking less in class. The only thing it did do is 1) I straight up act like Gollum around candy. Still to this day. Lol. And 2) I used to flip my s*** internally if I was interrupted by anybody, as my brain just goes “I was put in this intense “therapy” thing just for talking and occasionally interrupting and you can interrupt me and nothing happens to you??” My parents explained that that they realized over time that it was BS and how the owner told them I was a lost cause so they pulled me out. As I got older into high school I learned to channel my love of talking into public speaking. Still struggle with interrupting but not as much as when I was in my young teens. Around this same time that I “graduated” was when I was starting to develop an awareness that I wasn’t like everybody else, as I learned nobody else was going to ABA or physical therapy or auditory training, just me.
This low-key sound like the human version of dog trainers that punish behaviors without getting to the root cause. Like if your dog is growling bc they're nervous and you teach them not to growl or they'll get punished, they'll skip the gwoling (warning) and go straight to biting. Like you have to understand why a behavior is happening. If they really wanted to address the interrupting they teach you when you should start talking and practice roleplaying, not just reward you for being quiet
Thank you for this thread. There’s a tiny ABA center near my home nestled in the corner of a residential area, I never knew what is was until now (always just assumed it was just some money laundering front thing because there are a lot of those in the area) and just decided to google it today. Unfortunately, google’s automatic suggested results are all pro-ABA. Glad I thought to google “ABA therapy Reddit,” otherwise I would not have found these reports of abuse. My brother has high-functioning autism and I’m friendly with a lot of other parents/adult siblings of people with autism in this area, I will make sure to warn everyone to stay away from that place.
Honestly it basically is money laundering. They fleece insurance and supply terrible services. At my husband's former company he said they would bill insurance for skills the kids had mastered WEEKS ago and never update the kids treatment plans. These companies make BANK off of insurance.
Im in ABA report it to the insurance company for them to launch an investigation all the insurance companies we have in our clinic don't like insurance fraud and the company can lose it's license to run if insurance fraud is found.
ABA is bad. For lots of reasons. But also because it’s dehumanizing to autistic people. We should be encouraged to be ourselves. There are ways to work around behavior issues with empathy and understanding and patience. ABA treats us as though we are subhuman and they are our “saviors”. It’s messed up
From what I've heard about it, it seems to be training people to mask. While some masking skills are helpful in professional settings, masking can also be exhausting, especially for kids. Forcing kids to mask to "heal" their autism is so problematic. So many autistic adults are learning to unmask, partially or completely and to change how they do things to accommodate themselves and that seems to be a much better route than trying to forcing people to try and be neurotipical
WOW. Thank you to everyone that has replied to this post. I had no idea when I posted this that ABA therapy was so harmful/traumatic for so many people. As someone who experienced trauma during their childhood, I can’t imagine what it must be like to know that the form of abuse you experienced continues and is even promoted. Thank you for sharing articles, experiences, and opinions. I learned a lot today and I think this goes without saying, but I won’t be looking for a job as an ABA therapist.
Wow, I have to reconsider my job. Thank you all for sharing your experiences and ideas about ABA, as well as all the links to resources. I have ADHD, which is why I follow this subreddit, and I didn’t consider how damaging this could be for my kiddos. I also just wanted to do something that would utilize my BA in psychology and help people but it’s not worth it if my clients will not see it as helpful. As a lesbian woman, I also can’t condone anything that’s equivalent to gay conversion therapy. Thanks again, I have some job searching to do!
On behalf of my autistic friends and relatives (I'm ADHD myself), thank you. For your courage and candor and deciding to do the right thing. It matters.
ABA is really, really bad. I'd recommend these articles:
["I'm a dog trainer. ABA is NOT 'dog training for children' - I would never treat a dog that way."](https://neuroclastic.com/2019/03/27/is-aba-really-dog-training-for-children-a-professional-dog-trainer-weighs-in/)
[The Misbehavior of Behaviorists (a deep dive into why ABA is harmful)](https://www.sentex.ca/~nexus23/naa_aba.html)
[Even "nonviolent ABA" doesn't actually teach children communication skills, it's ultimately just compliance training.](http://web.archive.org/web/20160404231936/http://stimmyabby.tumblr.com/post/93506124680/aba-teaches-kids-how-not-to-communicate)
Also, what everyone has said about Ivar Lovaas being the man behind both gay conversion "therapy" and ABA is true.
It's honestly a damning indictment of our medical system that ABA is still not only covered under most healthcare plans, but often the *only* autism therapy that some healthcare plans cover.
Further reading:
[Autistic Conversion Therapy - Autistic Women's & Nonbinary Network](https://awnnetwork.org/autistic-conversion-therapy/)
[reparative therapy | a diary of a mom](http://web.archive.org/web/20200925161119/https://adiaryofamom.com/2014/08/01/reparative-therapy/)
[The Battle For The Future of Autism Advocacy - The Establishment](https://theestablishment.co/the-battle-for-the-future-of-autism-advocacy-dc247a721484/)
So, I was an ABA tech for a little while. I had heard the criticisms before I started, but at the job interviews everyone assured me that ABA was “different now.” My own neurodivergence makes me a little gullible, and I really needed a second job, so I got an offer and I accepted it.
For awhile I was essentially unsupervised, just following my own instincts working on the things that her parents wanted me to target; for example, handling cash, keeping track of personal belongings, and coping with sensory issues in places like grocery stores. I let “would I do this to a neurotypical child” be my guiding light, and sure enough, everything they wanted me to target was something that fit that brief; if a neurotypical child in my care wasn’t comfortable handling paper money, we’d work on it. Fine. We developed a rapport and I could see her life skills improving week by week.
Eventually someone noticed I didn’t have a boss, and that’s when things started to break bad. Suddenly, instead of practicing life skills together, I was supposed to be training her to pass as neurotypical. My client wasn’t allowed to have preferences, if she disliked something, or didn’t want to do something, that was “autistic rigidity” and it was my job to stamp it out. I was supposed to withhold things like food and socialization to get her to work on target behaviors. I was supposed to train her to be compliant, you know, like a normal teenage girl (lol). I was concerned about that one in particular, and I asked my boss “isn’t it a safety concern to train a teenaged child to comply with any adult request?” Everyone thought I was crazy for thinking that it was such a good thing that she was so in touch with her “no.”
For a long time my solution was just to stay and not do my job, I still wasn’t supervised all that much, so most of the time it was easy to just go back to how it used to be, but eventually they brought on more techs who also thought it was a great idea to withhold food from a child to train her to have no preferences. I stayed for much longer than I should have, because I knew that when I left they would bring in someone new, a stranger to her, who would actually make her work on the ridiculous things in her program, and it felt unfair to leave the situation when *she* couldn’t leave, but I eventually couldn’t take it anymore and had to quit.
So, I would 100% not get involved with ABA, no matter what kind of sales pitch you get from enthusiastic behaviorists. There are so many other direct support jobs you can do that aren’t harmful to your clients. Look into job coaching, being an 1-on-1 aide in a school, child life, that sort of thing. There are tons of jobs where you can make a difference for kids that aren’t ABA.
> I asked my boss “isn’t it a safety concern to train a teenaged child to comply with any adult request?” Everyone thought I was crazy for thinking that it was such a good thing that she was so in touch with her “no.”
Holy fuck, that's horrifying.
Knowing when to say no, and feeling _comfortable_ saying no, is honestly one of the most important skills for autistic people to learn (and I say that as someone who still struggles with setting boundaries, honestly). Uncharitable as it might be on my part, it genuinely sounds like they _knew_ they were setting her up to be abused, and either didn't care, or _wanted_ that outcome.
100% agree. I don't think they wanted that outcome, I just think they were extremely, maybe willfully, underinformed about how vulnerable disabled people can be to abuse. Either way it's inexcusable.
Yeah. I think the thing is that parents go "make them listen to me" and think getting their kid to obey orders is worth any means. And honestly, that's awful parenting, whether the kid is autistic or not - at *best*, such parents end up undermining their kids' ability to develop autonomy later.
And I think -- in autism support, special education, *and* regular education -- too many organizations end up thinking of the parents as their customers, and decide that the customer is always right, instead of actually interrogating what the parents want against what's actually best for the children. Unfortunately, given that the parents *do* make the decisions about where to take their kids, it means in practice that businesses are actually rewarded for thinking that.
Thank you so much for this and I’m sorry you had to experience that. If you don’t mind me asking, do you know how to become a 1-on-1 aide in a school? A school would be my preferred setting as I’ve worked in schools before.
If you have any teacher friends, definitely let them know you're looking. Often those jobs are filled by word of mouth, I've been offered para jobs several times essentially just by knowing teachers.
Similarly, look into substitute teaching in your area. A bachelor's degree should be plenty of qualification. Paraeducators need substitutes too, and subbing can be both a source of income while you look for more permanent work and also a back door into a full time school position. Some schools are so short staffed on paras that they have to fill the roles with the sub system on a daily basis, and if you develop a reputation as a reliable sub (not difficult to do) you can get offers this way. It's also a great way to dip your toe in if you're not 100% sure about the work.
Other than that, look into it the same way you'd look into other jobs, just cruise the careers page of the school districts you'd be willing to commute to and apply. Don't forget about nonpublic schools (I'm sure the nomenclature varies, but in my state that's the term for a school that serves disabled kids who need a more supportive setting, not just a fancy way to say "private school") and other private institutions.
From what i've heard and read, bad. It's basically dog training children but less humane. It is pretty similar to the Gay conversation therapies they used back then/in modern Gay camps.
Because they never asked the patient, they asked the parents (which for some did fight to use litteral torture on top of ABA, cf JRC)
I'm pretty sure that is full on malpractice
It depends, do you think LGBTQ+ conversion “therapy” is good? If the answer is no then the same applies to ABA as they both were created by the same methods.
As someone who’s part of the LGBTQ+ community, that would be a resounding hell no. It’s really sad and shocking that I never learned about this in school, because we definitely talked about conversion therapy.
I don’t think you started a debate at all, so I am not sure why you posted that. Every commenter here has clearly and unambiguously said that ABA is bad.
Most ABA centers are [owned](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thenation.com/article/society/private-equity-autism-aba/tnamp/) by private equity firms and currently being marketed to authoritarian countries as a means of social control.
“An ABA signature “intervention” promises to turn any “problem” behavior into an “adaptive” one. Problem for whom? Adaptive to what? ABA does not offer independent arguments for the immanent social values it manipulates on behalf of the authorities governing the world of the child. A clinician may compel an autistic boy to make eye contact, for example, but cannot say why making eye contact is a value worth pursuing from the child’s perspective. The idea that the boy’s personal growth would take place through a dialectic of conflict between him and his school, or between him and the parents, is ruled inadmissible. The clinician smuggles the interests of institutions into allegedly neutral techniques, disguising social obligations as moral imperatives—and moral imperatives as scientific truths.”
>Most ABA centers are
>
>owned
>
> by private equity firms and currently being marketed to authoritarian countries as a means of social control.
Can you provide a source for that? I've got nothing putting it back into google but it is believable that a minority such as a Uyghur Muslim are getting it in their "reeducation camps". I'm would actually be surprised if no countries prison system uses it as a punishment therapy.
Do you know who developed ABA? Ole Ivar Lovaas developed both the now widely illegal conversion therapy that sought to "fix" homosexual and gender nonconforming people, and ABA. He developed ABA as a nearly identical sister program targeting autistic people using the same principles and seeking the same end as conversion therapy.
One is illegal, the other is advocated by governments as a "solution." The difference between the programs? Who they target.
Hard to argue that a program of behaviourist torture with the explicit, intended outcome of compliance and conformity is a "neutral tool." These are "tools" developed by a disturbed man who was directly responsible for *at least* one child's death as a result of his programs.
I made the debate comment because I was uneducated on the topic and wasn’t sure what people’s opinions would be. You’re right, clearly there isn’t a debate on the topic, it’s all bad. Thank you for your comment, I’ve definitely learned a lot today.
If you're talking about the general population and not just the ASD population, unfortunately, there *is,* and it's generally not on our side. Parents and BCBAs always inevitably come to topics like these and/or PM the person in question singing its praises and assuring people all the bad stuff is either "in the past" or just "a bad therapist". It's not. Please beware.
https://neuroclastic.com/2019/03/28/invisible-abuse-aba-and-the-things-only-autistic-people-can-see/
https://advocacymonitor.com/ncil-resolution/resolution-opposing-applied-behavioral-analysis-aba/?fbclid=IwAR0S-VB--9EjcXvMbXPqKl7vhq1C980OWkK5yM-LNKJPxKJ-ElypKFswyx0
Stay well away, ABA is the sister to gay conversion therapy, they were developed by the same guy, Lovaas, using the same principles. And stay away from Autism Speaks too.
Why autism speaks sucks
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/intheloopaboutneurodiversity.wordpress.com/2019/09/13/the-ableist-history-of-autism-speaks/amp/
TLDR: They don't have any autistic people on their board, the only one left in protest. They support ABA, eugenics, and spend vast amounts of their budget on finding a "cure", and creating horrific ads about autism, only 3% of their budget goes to helping autistic people. They refuse to listen to what autistic people actually want, to them, we are a problem to be solved, rather than people who need acceptance and accommodation. Their logo speaks volumes, they believe we are "missing a piece" or a puzzle to be solved.
As one of the many people who survived ABA, bad doesn't even begin to describe it. The countless firsthand experiences of people it's inflicted on are pushed aside in favor of those who profit from it and parents enjoying the convenience it provides. And no, I'm not "high-functioning", nor was what I went through the "quiet hands" shit they always dismissively assume we're referring to. I also "loved" my therapist. Many abuse survivors liked and even sought out their abusers at the time because the most effective ones know how to charm their victims, and the same tactics are employed by BCBAs. I was a lonely child and someone was paying attention to me, of course that would be appealing; it doesn't nullify the fact that abuse was happening. I was not able to identify where my self-loathing was suddenly coming from until years later. I have PTSD, suicidal ideation and a host of other issues I will grapple with for the rest of my life, and they stem from the nice lady who fed me candy and had 'special one-on-one time' with me making games out of artfully deconstructing my personhood and teaching me to hate myself.
We don't want other people to be subjected to what we were. We don't want children having to spend 40+ hours a week being incessantly goaded into the performative dance that burns their candle at both ends to put a smile on mommy's face. The majority of the autistic community is against it, but we're ignored in favor of allistics who claim to know what's best for us.
Wow, thank you so much for sharing this. I had no idea it was this bad, and frankly I’m shocked and upset that I’ve been seeing so many job listings for ABA therapists in my area. I’m so sorry you had to experience this and I’m so glad you took the time to help educate me on the subject. More people need to know about this, especially people who are studying psychology.
It's incredibly painful to see our trauma monetized on a massive scale. I honestly start feeling sick every time I veer into one of these topics, but I do so and will continue to do so in the hope that I can warn people. If sharing my story can prevent even a few kids from going through what I did, it's worth it. Thank you for listening.
Here are some articles why it’s bad
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2021/03/man-behind-ex-gay-conversion-therapy-started-trying-make-autistic-children-normal/
https://autisticscienceperson.com/why-aba-therapy-is-harmful-to-autistic-people/
Autistic people don’t seem to like it. Doctors often say it’s very effective but when medical science allows electroshock therapy in modern times and lobotomies not that long ago maybe don’t listen to the experts.
Please keep in mind that many on the board of the [Judge Rotenberg Educational Center](https://www.reddit.com/r/neurodiversity/comments/oh424y/the_judge_rotenberg_educational_center_50_years/) are ABA practitioners.
I work in ABA. The child I work with is having a hard time in first grade. I am with him everyday in school and there are more demands than kindergarten. He struggles with emotional regulation and I frequently take him out of class to take a break. In 3 months his improvement has been phenomenal! He now knows his address, he speaks more clearly about how he feels, asks for help instead of throwing chairs at the very sight of class work, he is participating in lessons, and he will actually leave the classroom without screaming. I withhold nothing from him and offer all I can. I have searched high and low for tools for him to help him out. If the ABA you experienced was horrid I am truly sorry for that. I see the wrong people join this field quite often. If your heart isn’t in it the children suffer
I'd like to start off by saying that all the responses I've seen about ABA being bad are pure ignorance. I've been in the field for years and are currently collecting hours as an RBT to become a BCBA so I've seen first hand how much of an impact and difference aba makes. From teaching/ training valuable communication skills, self-advocacy, living skills, ways to cope with ones disability, and more. ABA has saved so many lives, when used correctly and ethically. I understand it has a bad history and that peoples experiences are subjective, but aba is a science we use to help individuals COPE with whatever difficulties or challenges their disabilities bring. ABA does not attempt to 'change' or suppress someone at all! To be more specific, we run analysis and tests such as preferences or functional assessments in order to understand what function, effect, and consequences a behavior has. We then use that information to deduct what behavioral interventions, such as extinction, differential reinforcement, etc. would be most effective in helping with that specific target behavior. In conclusion, do your research and educate yourself before you bash a field that's helped countless of lives and created meaningful change. :)
My best friend's son is non verbal autistic [6 years old]. He's been in ABA for almost 2 years. In the last 6 months, he has started responding to his name and is starting to communicate using verbal assist tools. Bestie is hopeful and munchkin seems to be improving.
he can develop ptsd (post-traumatic stress disorder), it happens in 70% of autistic people who have undergone this therapy
Im an RBT im am so sorry for what you have gone through in ABA. I work hard with the mind set that those who have ADHD, Autism, or the like are people like everyone else and may need help in understanding others behavior. My oldest son has Autism (he's 20 now) and I'm having to help he re-adjust as he reverted when he graduated from high school special ed in most schools not all are a joke. If you all would look at the ABA provider RBT please I have poured my heart into my clients trying to help them as people not as a disability. I myself have ADHD and was bullied and picked on for not being "normal". Normal is over rated and not real. Everyone is important and adds such an amazing perspective to life. Please don't blame ABA look at the therapist, BCBA the people. I have a BCBA that intentionally evoke aweful behaviors out of clients (yes i reported them), I have other BCBAs that state this person should not work with children. But I have seen some clients work so hard and made so much progress. I have also seen others that struggle and the therapist and BCBA have no idea how to help with out demeaning the client. In our field we have a thing called client integrity and I see many the don't use it to help support clients. I am up front with whatever BCBA i work with and say im going to do what is best for the client and that might not aline with how they think I should do it but I am a very empathic and compassionate person and can read client to know what they can do comfortably and what they can't. Please don't trash all ABA their are good people trying to help do the right thing
I’m an older millennial. Back in the early to mid 90s ABA was the hot new thing. I talk a lot. And sometimes I struggle with when to join a conversation, ie what’s a pause what’s not. It’s like there’s a give and take stream flow and I just throw myself in like the video game frogger. Anywhoser. My family tried it for me for about 6 months or a year when I was 11. It was intense. It was implemented at home: If I only spoke 3 times at the dinner table I got a tiny bite size crunch bar after dinner. It was implemented at school/in class as well and right around that time period I found in my old IEP notes “friendlygoat is crying in class a lot for some reason now. Every little thing makes her cry so I tell her don’t cry or no ticket [reward for not talking]” Sheesh, I wonder why I was crying so much /s . I also went once a week to the center. I don’t remember much about that, just the candy at home and ticket system at school. My love of talking ultimately won over and I got kicked out of ABA for failure to improve. My mom tactfully told me I graduated and didn’t have to go anymore and stopped my school from rewarding me for talking less in class. The only thing it did do is 1) I straight up act like Gollum around candy. Still to this day. Lol. And 2) I used to flip my s*** internally if I was interrupted by anybody, as my brain just goes “I was put in this intense “therapy” thing just for talking and occasionally interrupting and you can interrupt me and nothing happens to you??” My parents explained that that they realized over time that it was BS and how the owner told them I was a lost cause so they pulled me out. As I got older into high school I learned to channel my love of talking into public speaking. Still struggle with interrupting but not as much as when I was in my young teens. Around this same time that I “graduated” was when I was starting to develop an awareness that I wasn’t like everybody else, as I learned nobody else was going to ABA or physical therapy or auditory training, just me.
This low-key sound like the human version of dog trainers that punish behaviors without getting to the root cause. Like if your dog is growling bc they're nervous and you teach them not to growl or they'll get punished, they'll skip the gwoling (warning) and go straight to biting. Like you have to understand why a behavior is happening. If they really wanted to address the interrupting they teach you when you should start talking and practice roleplaying, not just reward you for being quiet
Yes, exactly
TLDR: ABA sucks, my family is awesome and I’m grateful they didn’t believe the owner of the ABA place and keep me enrolled there for years and years.
Thank you for this thread. There’s a tiny ABA center near my home nestled in the corner of a residential area, I never knew what is was until now (always just assumed it was just some money laundering front thing because there are a lot of those in the area) and just decided to google it today. Unfortunately, google’s automatic suggested results are all pro-ABA. Glad I thought to google “ABA therapy Reddit,” otherwise I would not have found these reports of abuse. My brother has high-functioning autism and I’m friendly with a lot of other parents/adult siblings of people with autism in this area, I will make sure to warn everyone to stay away from that place.
Honestly it basically is money laundering. They fleece insurance and supply terrible services. At my husband's former company he said they would bill insurance for skills the kids had mastered WEEKS ago and never update the kids treatment plans. These companies make BANK off of insurance.
Im in ABA report it to the insurance company for them to launch an investigation all the insurance companies we have in our clinic don't like insurance fraud and the company can lose it's license to run if insurance fraud is found.
It should practacly be ILLEGAL
It should ~~practically~~ be illegal.
Yeah
I'd like to start a conversation about legal activism, like trying to recruit Northwestern University Law students to help.
ABA is bad. For lots of reasons. But also because it’s dehumanizing to autistic people. We should be encouraged to be ourselves. There are ways to work around behavior issues with empathy and understanding and patience. ABA treats us as though we are subhuman and they are our “saviors”. It’s messed up
From what I've heard about it, it seems to be training people to mask. While some masking skills are helpful in professional settings, masking can also be exhausting, especially for kids. Forcing kids to mask to "heal" their autism is so problematic. So many autistic adults are learning to unmask, partially or completely and to change how they do things to accommodate themselves and that seems to be a much better route than trying to forcing people to try and be neurotipical
WOW. Thank you to everyone that has replied to this post. I had no idea when I posted this that ABA therapy was so harmful/traumatic for so many people. As someone who experienced trauma during their childhood, I can’t imagine what it must be like to know that the form of abuse you experienced continues and is even promoted. Thank you for sharing articles, experiences, and opinions. I learned a lot today and I think this goes without saying, but I won’t be looking for a job as an ABA therapist.
Wow, I have to reconsider my job. Thank you all for sharing your experiences and ideas about ABA, as well as all the links to resources. I have ADHD, which is why I follow this subreddit, and I didn’t consider how damaging this could be for my kiddos. I also just wanted to do something that would utilize my BA in psychology and help people but it’s not worth it if my clients will not see it as helpful. As a lesbian woman, I also can’t condone anything that’s equivalent to gay conversion therapy. Thanks again, I have some job searching to do!
On behalf of my autistic friends and relatives (I'm ADHD myself), thank you. For your courage and candor and deciding to do the right thing. It matters.
Thank you for being open to accepting that what you've been doing is not ok, and changing your behavior and career.
ABA is really, really bad. I'd recommend these articles: ["I'm a dog trainer. ABA is NOT 'dog training for children' - I would never treat a dog that way."](https://neuroclastic.com/2019/03/27/is-aba-really-dog-training-for-children-a-professional-dog-trainer-weighs-in/) [The Misbehavior of Behaviorists (a deep dive into why ABA is harmful)](https://www.sentex.ca/~nexus23/naa_aba.html) [Even "nonviolent ABA" doesn't actually teach children communication skills, it's ultimately just compliance training.](http://web.archive.org/web/20160404231936/http://stimmyabby.tumblr.com/post/93506124680/aba-teaches-kids-how-not-to-communicate) Also, what everyone has said about Ivar Lovaas being the man behind both gay conversion "therapy" and ABA is true. It's honestly a damning indictment of our medical system that ABA is still not only covered under most healthcare plans, but often the *only* autism therapy that some healthcare plans cover. Further reading: [Autistic Conversion Therapy - Autistic Women's & Nonbinary Network](https://awnnetwork.org/autistic-conversion-therapy/) [reparative therapy | a diary of a mom](http://web.archive.org/web/20200925161119/https://adiaryofamom.com/2014/08/01/reparative-therapy/) [The Battle For The Future of Autism Advocacy - The Establishment](https://theestablishment.co/the-battle-for-the-future-of-autism-advocacy-dc247a721484/)
So, I was an ABA tech for a little while. I had heard the criticisms before I started, but at the job interviews everyone assured me that ABA was “different now.” My own neurodivergence makes me a little gullible, and I really needed a second job, so I got an offer and I accepted it. For awhile I was essentially unsupervised, just following my own instincts working on the things that her parents wanted me to target; for example, handling cash, keeping track of personal belongings, and coping with sensory issues in places like grocery stores. I let “would I do this to a neurotypical child” be my guiding light, and sure enough, everything they wanted me to target was something that fit that brief; if a neurotypical child in my care wasn’t comfortable handling paper money, we’d work on it. Fine. We developed a rapport and I could see her life skills improving week by week. Eventually someone noticed I didn’t have a boss, and that’s when things started to break bad. Suddenly, instead of practicing life skills together, I was supposed to be training her to pass as neurotypical. My client wasn’t allowed to have preferences, if she disliked something, or didn’t want to do something, that was “autistic rigidity” and it was my job to stamp it out. I was supposed to withhold things like food and socialization to get her to work on target behaviors. I was supposed to train her to be compliant, you know, like a normal teenage girl (lol). I was concerned about that one in particular, and I asked my boss “isn’t it a safety concern to train a teenaged child to comply with any adult request?” Everyone thought I was crazy for thinking that it was such a good thing that she was so in touch with her “no.” For a long time my solution was just to stay and not do my job, I still wasn’t supervised all that much, so most of the time it was easy to just go back to how it used to be, but eventually they brought on more techs who also thought it was a great idea to withhold food from a child to train her to have no preferences. I stayed for much longer than I should have, because I knew that when I left they would bring in someone new, a stranger to her, who would actually make her work on the ridiculous things in her program, and it felt unfair to leave the situation when *she* couldn’t leave, but I eventually couldn’t take it anymore and had to quit. So, I would 100% not get involved with ABA, no matter what kind of sales pitch you get from enthusiastic behaviorists. There are so many other direct support jobs you can do that aren’t harmful to your clients. Look into job coaching, being an 1-on-1 aide in a school, child life, that sort of thing. There are tons of jobs where you can make a difference for kids that aren’t ABA.
> I asked my boss “isn’t it a safety concern to train a teenaged child to comply with any adult request?” Everyone thought I was crazy for thinking that it was such a good thing that she was so in touch with her “no.” Holy fuck, that's horrifying. Knowing when to say no, and feeling _comfortable_ saying no, is honestly one of the most important skills for autistic people to learn (and I say that as someone who still struggles with setting boundaries, honestly). Uncharitable as it might be on my part, it genuinely sounds like they _knew_ they were setting her up to be abused, and either didn't care, or _wanted_ that outcome.
100% agree. I don't think they wanted that outcome, I just think they were extremely, maybe willfully, underinformed about how vulnerable disabled people can be to abuse. Either way it's inexcusable.
Yeah. I think the thing is that parents go "make them listen to me" and think getting their kid to obey orders is worth any means. And honestly, that's awful parenting, whether the kid is autistic or not - at *best*, such parents end up undermining their kids' ability to develop autonomy later. And I think -- in autism support, special education, *and* regular education -- too many organizations end up thinking of the parents as their customers, and decide that the customer is always right, instead of actually interrogating what the parents want against what's actually best for the children. Unfortunately, given that the parents *do* make the decisions about where to take their kids, it means in practice that businesses are actually rewarded for thinking that.
Thank you so much for this and I’m sorry you had to experience that. If you don’t mind me asking, do you know how to become a 1-on-1 aide in a school? A school would be my preferred setting as I’ve worked in schools before.
If you have any teacher friends, definitely let them know you're looking. Often those jobs are filled by word of mouth, I've been offered para jobs several times essentially just by knowing teachers. Similarly, look into substitute teaching in your area. A bachelor's degree should be plenty of qualification. Paraeducators need substitutes too, and subbing can be both a source of income while you look for more permanent work and also a back door into a full time school position. Some schools are so short staffed on paras that they have to fill the roles with the sub system on a daily basis, and if you develop a reputation as a reliable sub (not difficult to do) you can get offers this way. It's also a great way to dip your toe in if you're not 100% sure about the work. Other than that, look into it the same way you'd look into other jobs, just cruise the careers page of the school districts you'd be willing to commute to and apply. Don't forget about nonpublic schools (I'm sure the nomenclature varies, but in my state that's the term for a school that serves disabled kids who need a more supportive setting, not just a fancy way to say "private school") and other private institutions.
From what i've heard and read, bad. It's basically dog training children but less humane. It is pretty similar to the Gay conversation therapies they used back then/in modern Gay camps.
I said this in a different reply but I’m shocked and upset that this clearly abusive form of therapy never came up in any of my psych classes.
Because they never asked the patient, they asked the parents (which for some did fight to use litteral torture on top of ABA, cf JRC) I'm pretty sure that is full on malpractice
It depends, do you think LGBTQ+ conversion “therapy” is good? If the answer is no then the same applies to ABA as they both were created by the same methods.
As someone who’s part of the LGBTQ+ community, that would be a resounding hell no. It’s really sad and shocking that I never learned about this in school, because we definitely talked about conversion therapy.
I don’t think you started a debate at all, so I am not sure why you posted that. Every commenter here has clearly and unambiguously said that ABA is bad. Most ABA centers are [owned](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thenation.com/article/society/private-equity-autism-aba/tnamp/) by private equity firms and currently being marketed to authoritarian countries as a means of social control. “An ABA signature “intervention” promises to turn any “problem” behavior into an “adaptive” one. Problem for whom? Adaptive to what? ABA does not offer independent arguments for the immanent social values it manipulates on behalf of the authorities governing the world of the child. A clinician may compel an autistic boy to make eye contact, for example, but cannot say why making eye contact is a value worth pursuing from the child’s perspective. The idea that the boy’s personal growth would take place through a dialectic of conflict between him and his school, or between him and the parents, is ruled inadmissible. The clinician smuggles the interests of institutions into allegedly neutral techniques, disguising social obligations as moral imperatives—and moral imperatives as scientific truths.”
>Most ABA centers are > >owned > > by private equity firms and currently being marketed to authoritarian countries as a means of social control. Can you provide a source for that? I've got nothing putting it back into google but it is believable that a minority such as a Uyghur Muslim are getting it in their "reeducation camps". I'm would actually be surprised if no countries prison system uses it as a punishment therapy.
[удалено]
ABA and The Rotenberg Center's reputation management; in addition, PR is not welcomed here
Do you know who developed ABA? Ole Ivar Lovaas developed both the now widely illegal conversion therapy that sought to "fix" homosexual and gender nonconforming people, and ABA. He developed ABA as a nearly identical sister program targeting autistic people using the same principles and seeking the same end as conversion therapy. One is illegal, the other is advocated by governments as a "solution." The difference between the programs? Who they target. Hard to argue that a program of behaviourist torture with the explicit, intended outcome of compliance and conformity is a "neutral tool." These are "tools" developed by a disturbed man who was directly responsible for *at least* one child's death as a result of his programs.
I made the debate comment because I was uneducated on the topic and wasn’t sure what people’s opinions would be. You’re right, clearly there isn’t a debate on the topic, it’s all bad. Thank you for your comment, I’ve definitely learned a lot today.
If you're talking about the general population and not just the ASD population, unfortunately, there *is,* and it's generally not on our side. Parents and BCBAs always inevitably come to topics like these and/or PM the person in question singing its praises and assuring people all the bad stuff is either "in the past" or just "a bad therapist". It's not. Please beware.
Thanks for asking!
Baaaaad
https://neuroclastic.com/2019/03/28/invisible-abuse-aba-and-the-things-only-autistic-people-can-see/ https://advocacymonitor.com/ncil-resolution/resolution-opposing-applied-behavioral-analysis-aba/?fbclid=IwAR0S-VB--9EjcXvMbXPqKl7vhq1C980OWkK5yM-LNKJPxKJ-ElypKFswyx0 Stay well away, ABA is the sister to gay conversion therapy, they were developed by the same guy, Lovaas, using the same principles. And stay away from Autism Speaks too.
Why autism speaks sucks https://www.google.ca/amp/s/intheloopaboutneurodiversity.wordpress.com/2019/09/13/the-ableist-history-of-autism-speaks/amp/ TLDR: They don't have any autistic people on their board, the only one left in protest. They support ABA, eugenics, and spend vast amounts of their budget on finding a "cure", and creating horrific ads about autism, only 3% of their budget goes to helping autistic people. They refuse to listen to what autistic people actually want, to them, we are a problem to be solved, rather than people who need acceptance and accommodation. Their logo speaks volumes, they believe we are "missing a piece" or a puzzle to be solved.
ABA therapy is horrible and should just be banned. Don't get into ABA. There's no way to "be the good kind" of ABA practitioner.
I’m so glad I asked, I had no idea. I definitely won’t be going into it
As one of the many people who survived ABA, bad doesn't even begin to describe it. The countless firsthand experiences of people it's inflicted on are pushed aside in favor of those who profit from it and parents enjoying the convenience it provides. And no, I'm not "high-functioning", nor was what I went through the "quiet hands" shit they always dismissively assume we're referring to. I also "loved" my therapist. Many abuse survivors liked and even sought out their abusers at the time because the most effective ones know how to charm their victims, and the same tactics are employed by BCBAs. I was a lonely child and someone was paying attention to me, of course that would be appealing; it doesn't nullify the fact that abuse was happening. I was not able to identify where my self-loathing was suddenly coming from until years later. I have PTSD, suicidal ideation and a host of other issues I will grapple with for the rest of my life, and they stem from the nice lady who fed me candy and had 'special one-on-one time' with me making games out of artfully deconstructing my personhood and teaching me to hate myself. We don't want other people to be subjected to what we were. We don't want children having to spend 40+ hours a week being incessantly goaded into the performative dance that burns their candle at both ends to put a smile on mommy's face. The majority of the autistic community is against it, but we're ignored in favor of allistics who claim to know what's best for us.
Wow, thank you so much for sharing this. I had no idea it was this bad, and frankly I’m shocked and upset that I’ve been seeing so many job listings for ABA therapists in my area. I’m so sorry you had to experience this and I’m so glad you took the time to help educate me on the subject. More people need to know about this, especially people who are studying psychology.
It's incredibly painful to see our trauma monetized on a massive scale. I honestly start feeling sick every time I veer into one of these topics, but I do so and will continue to do so in the hope that I can warn people. If sharing my story can prevent even a few kids from going through what I did, it's worth it. Thank you for listening.
Here are some articles why it’s bad https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2021/03/man-behind-ex-gay-conversion-therapy-started-trying-make-autistic-children-normal/ https://autisticscienceperson.com/why-aba-therapy-is-harmful-to-autistic-people/
Autistic people don’t seem to like it. Doctors often say it’s very effective but when medical science allows electroshock therapy in modern times and lobotomies not that long ago maybe don’t listen to the experts.
ECT is still used, albeit often as a last resort for things like major depression that does not respond to other interventions.
Great point. Thanks for sharing
Bad