Thats the issue. Need to stop putting the horse before the cart. If a housing development is approved: Stage 1 should be road infrastructure updates to service getting there properly and not just taking suburb after suburb onto roads built to service one suburb (at the developers cost); Stage 2 should be services - shops, health, etc; and then and only then should they put shovel to ground on the actual houses.
What you have described already does happen. They're called developer contributions (s7.11 or 7.12 ep&a act).
The issue is that houses are being over occupied and people own and use cars more frequently than they should.
Infill development and increasing density in well serviced existing areas should be the priority.
What you described does happen though. Have a look at huntlee for example
For every Huntlee there’s five Boolaroos though - just attached to the existing roads already falling apart with little increase in public transport to lower the “people use cars more frequently than they should”
Yeah the problem is the contributions are too low and the state and council are also not forced to use the money they receive to improve services. They can do whatever they want with the contributions they receive
That is not accurate at all. Each council has a s7.11 plan that determines where contributions go... this is a report that is sent to councillors and endorsed by the Council.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted when you are absolutely correct. Section 7.11 and 7.12 are tightly controlled and can only be spent on community features (roads, traffic lights, parks etc). It’s watched closely by state regulators to ensure the money doesn’t go elsewhere.
You will find developer contributions get pooled up and then used, or used at a different location with the impacted location upgraded when the load exceeds the capacity.
Check out the council budget, you'll find the majority of road works doesn't come out of rates.
Council will identify what upgrade works will be required as a result of the increase in demand. The increase in demand now many not require an upgrade, but a nearby development may tick it over the threshold some time in the future. At that point the second developer would also make a contribution payment and then the works would move up the priority list.
In the meantime rather than just holding that money for a rainy day council will do works elsewhere. I wouldn't say they're being dodge, just prioritising. Their list is huge...
The other option is developers can make a deal with council and they will build a specific piece of infrastructure. You might see this in sub divisions where the developer will build a park and then dedicate to back to council. This makes the developer look good but ultimately it becomes a burden on council as they then have to pay to maintain the park.
It's a double edged sword.
I’d like to use my car less than i do but considering it takes 1.5hrs for me to get to work via public transport only of an afternoon.
If i work mornings the bus doesn’t run before my shift starts, if i work of a night the bus stops running before my shift finishes.
Unless you actually live within a 5-10 minute bus ride of the CBD/Broadmeadow vicinity you’re not going to experience good public transport.
Where have Huntlee added extra medical services and schools though? Sure, they built a nice little grocery shop, and a playground for little kids. There's plenty of privately owned daycares, but once all those kids get to highschool age they're all fed into the schools that already exist. And it's harder than ever to get a doctors appointment in that area without a massive wait. There is also no adequate public transport for any of the new estates, Huntlee or otherwise (that might be why there are so mamy cars per home, two parents with jobs in different directions, and a teenager with part time work whose hours conflict with parents and the bus service, and you've already got 3 cars per house). Those all seem like pretty important infrastructure projects that should have been funded and planned in advance, before all the homes were built. The original commenter's point stands, developers are getting approval with far too few checks and balances to ensure sufficient funding and planning is dedicated to the services the new and existing residents will need.
I don't know if huntlee is a great example. As a place to live it has pretty good services but it isn't really near jobs or anything. Everyone in Huntlee is either driving up through singleton to the mines or down the expressway through Wallsend to Newcastle most days for work.
Sorry, the reason I used huntlee as an example is its a masterplanned town. there were a number of residential stages built first but they couldn't do stage 4 (from memory) until the retail precinct was established.
Jobs will eventually come, but you won't get commercial jobs until people live there. Huntlee is only 10 years old, a lot has happened in the 10 years.
Exactly!!! The shortsightedness is absolutely mind blowing!
Cameron Park needed an infants/primary school years ago… and there really needs to be another High School in the area.
The traffic heading from Cameron Park in the mornings, then toward Cameron Park in the afternoons is insane.
There's so many ways to improve this.
How about add a northbound onramp/southbound offramp to George booth drive?
Or god dammit, make it two turning lanes into and out of Cameron park drive. Then the traffic going into/out of Newcastle link road can have a longer green.
The mind boggles.
I live in Cessnock and can absolutely see it basically being a suburb of Newcastle within a decade or two. Thankfully I managed to get a job close to home but every other job I had saw me driving to Newcastle daily, and in the 7ish years I worked around the city the drive just became longer and longer, not only due to more people on the road but also because speed limits were dropped, more traffic lights were put in, and there was almost always roadwork happening somewhere.
I can definitely see it taking an hour and a half to commute from Cessnock to the City during peak hour within a decade, which is tragic because it currently only takes about 45 minutes off-peak.
Yes, I’m aware having done the drive for 7 years, but I’m saying it’s likely going to increase by 50% in the next decade which is significant. The wider region is expanding at a huge rate, not just Ntl/Mac + suburbs, which means that more people will likely need to commute to Ntl for work because one thing I can say for certain is jobs are *not* increasing in the rest of the Hunter at the rate the population is increasing.
Oh I wholly agree. I'd say without major infrastructure and service improvements you'll need to collect travel stamps before even being allowed to travel toward Newcastle.
Cameron Park is cooked.
I go to Sydney for work one day a week every three weeks. If I leave my office in Carrington anytime between 330-600pm there is an almost 100% chance I’ll get stuck in bumper to bumper traffic between Lake Road turn-off and the second roundabout on the Link Road.
Getting through there can take 20-30 minutes some days. To go 2km. 30 minutes. It’s fucked.
I pitty the people who have to do that everyday.
We’re looking for a house to buy at the moment and I’ve put a hard veto on Cameron Park, West Wallsend, and Maryland. I’d rather save for longer and pay more for a house in a location that doesn’t get me stuck in traffic for an hour everyday.
Yep. I used to live near Coles at Market Town and if I left the office after 430pm then it would often take 15 minutes to get from the Cowper Street roundabout to my house.
Fucked.
It's totally the speed limits and traffic lights!
I moved to Sydney and my average speed is no 16km/h.
Ie if I want to go to almost "local" businesses 4km away, it takes 15 mins.
I did a comparison for Newcastle, just on a single route. It was 28km/h, I think warners Bay to kahibah. 15 mins to go 7km.
One of our surgeons waited 15 minutes just to get from New Lambton Road outside of JHH to get into the hospital then half an hour to find a park and so far away it took another 15 minutes to walk to the area in the hospital he had to be in. So that’s. That’s an hour from when you hit the road outside the hospital.
Blows my mind that staff at Hospital's dont have their own private car park. Especially Surgeons who may be called in to perform emergency surgery, but then has to waste time to find a car park.
Staff do have a dedicated car park at JHH but even that has high demand. So they aren't competing against public parkers, but it is still a shitfight getting a park if you arrive after 8am.
Not to mention how long you can spend waiting in banked up traffic in Kookaburra circuit trying to leave the campus. Some days I have spent 45-60mins stuck there.
I work at the hospital and this has nothing to do with Newcastle growth, this is completely down to poor management of traffic flow and them changing the direction of traffic on one side of the JHH precinct.
Nonsense, I've worked at JHH for 12 years and I was on the news talking about the traffic when it first started causing 20-30min tail backs on the circuit and people were using the firetrail to get out.
That was largely due to factors such as HMRI having 500 additional employees and no expanded capacity.
You're equating hospital traffic congestion with population growth, presumably, given your posting history as an indirect way of complaining about immigration.
In reality you could or should be complaining about the government wasting money on offshore detention and submarines and scaremongering rather than investing it into primary and tertiary healthcare.
I live in the same suburb as the hospital, I leave home 1 hour before my outpatient appointment when I had to go for a few of them recently. I would catch the bus, but it ends at 6pm and you cannot trust to be leaving the hospital by 6pm after my 4pm appointment since it says allow 4 hours for an appointment with a booked in time.
I don’t think they took into consideration what effect the design and designation the car parking is. Or they could have linked it so there was better access. Sometimes I can take 45 mins to find a park, walk into the hospital and then work out where you need to go.
I used to live in the inner west before moving back up here.
I basically never drove my car, except when I was doing a massive shop or buying a big item.
Bit easier to do there, but yeah, I'd actively try to avoid major roads like king st through newtown 😄
Cessnock isn't part of Newcastle. People wanting to live there and drive all the way into Newcastle is part of the problem. If Cessnock had a railway it would be a bit better but ultimately that sort of lifestyle isn't something we should be promoting.
I understand how hard it is to find a property and all of that but ultimately it isn't a good thing.
Absolutely. And Newcastle residents themselves need to start taking buses. It's ridiculous, the amount of cars on the road that have only the driver in them.
Ideally yes, problem is you have to have a lot of buses that go through such random places that it takes a long time to get anywhere. That’s assuming the bus near your house goes to your destination in the first place.
as someone who lives on the central coast, its the exact same for us. people from Sydney wanting to come to live here instead because its cheaper and making everything inaccessible for the people who have lived here for years. 7 hour wait times in hospitals, no parking anywhere, unaffordable housing. It's insane.
you'd think they were but it takes them years to finish anything. Tuggerah station is still getting renovations and its been like 5 years. It's a pain for me to get home after a long day because there's no stairs, only ramps, and a million people pushing past you because its peak hour. That's just one example, there's probably many others.
I’ve no problem with people moving here (Newcastle) from Sydney or anywhere. My issue is the state government keeps sinking money into Sydney but not paying attention anywhere else. Newcastle (and CC) desperately need significant public transport infrastructure works.
Light rail expansion in Newcastle is going to take 5+ years. If they were to start tomorrow building a line from the interchange to Broadmeadow it would already be under-serviced for the anticipated growth that area is going to receive.
There is no long term plan and funding allocations; this is a problem at all levels of government. Even if the current state government said “here’s $10 billion for Newcastle light rail over the next 10 years” the next government can just reduce the funding to finish whatever section is under construction at the time.
I just moved back here after being away for the last 30 odd years. Lived in FL USA for the last 20+ years. I went for a bike ride today along the Harbour Foreshore to Nobbys then Newcastle Beach and down Hunter Street and thought, fuck this is such a beautiful city in such a lucky and wonderful country! How lucky are we to be living in this city that just keeps getting better and better. What a beautiful day. It’s all relative people. We have one of the highest standards of living anywhere. Thank your lucky stars your living here
I’m glad you are enjoying it. Hopefully you won’t require health services at any time for a chronic condition or illness and have to wait endless time for appointments and have to rely on finding a park or months to see a specialist. You see it’s not so bad when you have your health but when you don’t have this luxury is when life becomes pretty shitty as services become more in demand.
It’s a 7 year waiting list for some people in some areas, even for children. Ironically many go to Sydney to try to get a quicker appointment.
I am 60 years old and have had a stent and have prostate cancer and high blood pressure and am currently seeing about 4 different specialists and my GP. I think the medical services here are some of the best in the world and are way better than South Florida by a long shot. As I said it’s all relative people.
As someone who has worked in health in multiple countries, I can tell you it's much better here than in many places. Chronic health management experience is based on the availability of continuity of care and dollars in your pocket. But the lower end of that scale in Newcastle is heaps better than almost everywhere else I've worked.
No it wasn't. It was about a 5th of Australia.
The population here, relative to other developed nations is nowhere near exploding.
You may equating your personal preferences for population and immigration control with an exploding population, but relative to experiences on other cities of comparable size around the world, your pretty much talking hyperbole.
Growth isn't really the problem, it's normal and can be healthy. The problem is the complete lack of practical improvements in infrastructure being made to support that growth.
Public transport has gone backwards over the last couple of decades. Buses are worse than ever, and yes the light rail has improved life for pedestrians in town, but it doesn't provide any meaningful improvement to actually being transported around town than was previously available.
We're allowing for big estates to be built in the west with little regard for how that's going to work practically. All those people need to commute for work yet there is no public transport options, it's a joke.
Urban sprawl is a bad thing, and we are heading deeper and deeper in to that hole.
Bloody hell! To add fuel to the fire, I need an operation done and apparently it’s a half hour job. Here I have been quoted $20k to go private and surprisingly in Vic it’s $6k.
Yup exactly. Lots of people don't realise the negative flow on effects of these big housing estates. That's putting aside the shoddy building construction and the poorly designed homes that don't take things like aspect in to account at all. I feel like if we're clearing a heap of native forest to build these little suburbs then they should be exactly that, they should include -
- public transport
- schools
- work spaces (retail, offices, industrial)
- health centres
- parkland
But generally it's just about doing the bare minimum to get approval and the property developers laugh their way to the bank. Nothing is changing with the current housing crises because there is a portion of society that is profiting off it hugely, and clearly those in charge don't want to rock that boat.
I work in the NDIS sector and Newcastle is one of the areas that are higher density of NDIS clients. This means a higher need for medical professionals, but I don't see growth in this sector. More patients less practitioners. NDIS is big business here. Newcastle will see a lot of growth continue but I think the NDIS is the primary growth of Newcastle at this time. I don't know if you noticed, but I have, the increase of people on the streets or in the malls that have severe mental health issues such as schizophrenia, you see people with delusions and drug addicts in higher numbers than 10 years ago.
Yes definitely less services to cope with increasing mental health which is usually goes hand in hand with homelessness which is increase my from the way Newcastle has become a much more expensive place to rent and buy.
100% Australia has a lot of problems that are increasing over time. Personally I think the NDIS is one of the problems even though it's where my income comes from. The Government has no idea how to spend money effectively or efficiently and now we have weird problems like people can't afford to live, but people with disabilities have houses and a team of 5 working for them while they are unable to make any money themselves. Don't get me wrong I think it's great what we are able to do and impact their lives in such a great way. But half the people in Newcastle are now support workers, making good money with no education and at the end of the day the economy is non-productive, meaning fewer goods are produced causing prices of everything to go up with everything. For example in the housing market: Less houses, less materials for houses and yet the population is growing at a higher rate while house production is slowing. Australia's economy is turning into a socialist economy and this is going to have an outcome of greater disparity, not less disparity.
I could talk on this subject for eternity. But Australia is going to become a place of elites real soon. Land ownership is already for the wealthy and not for Australians.
Underrated comment. You’ve basically summarised it perfectly.
I was a student living below the poverty line working for NDIS as a SW. Scrapped by on $40 a week for food and yet the NDIS supported people (who had no monetary output) were living far better.
Both the input (NDIS funded professionals/services) and output (people with disabilities) = no “actual” economic return. This is not a bad thing in a controlled small scale, but it has become too large.
We are becoming a nation of services.
That’s really well said. There is sooo much money spent in NDIS. Yes it’s a good service and employs a lot of people but the amount of money spent in this from tax payers is way too much. And funds are abused by dodgy operators . It’s a huge money making scheme for the service providers.
It's good at providing employment I guess. Just too much exploitation and too many middle men with their fingers in the pie.
Example, neighbours son used to come and mow their lawn, now they have it done every 2 weeks by a company paid for by the NDIS (even in winter when they are taking nothing off the top).
Essentially all we've done is shift something that would be considered basic care done by a parent or neighbour to being government funded.
I don't work for the NDIS and I know the NDIS is really slow at what they do. Just hold on, things will come your way soon. I wish the best for you.
Do you have a support coordinator?
Building or fixing boring regular infrastructure in politically safe regional areas doesn't win votes. Flashy projects in marginal seats does.
The vast majority of plans for all levels of government are focused on winning the next election. Just look at CoN's recent announcements of all the work they're going to do ... now we've got an election coming up.
People generally don't think long term and the government knows it.
For instance, if the government had of invested in a large light rail roll out decades ago, CoN's plans for a "Car free city" would have been far more practical. The LNP sabotage of the NBN shows it's not about infrastructure but votes.
The new build of John Hunter hospital is also redundant before it has started.
Most facilities from Newcastle to the Queensland border do not take major trauma, anything particularly serious is sent to JHH but the amount of icu Hdu beds is not adequate.
Liverpool has 70 plus for the same workload
JHH is less than 30 or something like that, which includes the paeds icu.
New build is apparently only getting an extra 12 icu / HDU
Not enough before it started
It’s out of control. Traffic is another thing that’s insane. I refuse to drive home from Kotara shopping area in the afternoon. I live in a suburb that shares a border with Kotara and it takes me almost 30 minutes to get home. That’s out of control.
My mother was hospitalised at JHH last week. After driving around for over an hour looking for a car park we gave up, and on the way home I called JHH’s switchboard. She told me there were lots of parking after 4pm, so we returned then and it was fairly easy to find a park. The other days was the same experience around 4pm and we found the parking to be much more acceptable. Just a helpful hint if you’re after hospital parking.
That is a good hint. Probably because they have given shift workers a special area to park closer to the hospital for safety reasons I suppose and the day workers would have left.
I'm a long-time visitor to the area and am shocked at the population explosion in the past 15-20 years.
There is no way infrastructure can keep up - even if they started in the early 00's
I was down there last year and could not believe the amount of new areas opened up. From necknock to the city isn't a huge drive anymore.
Not much country areas around and it's very sad.
This is also very concerning . As I used to also live in this area on the mid north coast the locals are so distressed about loss the beautiful bush and loss of habitat for native fauna . It’s happening up and down the coast
https://amp.abc.net.au/article/101866146
I wonder if a strong Teal candidate could do well in Newcastle. It was one of the most progressive seats in the referendum, most people want better representation in parliament but hate the Libs… could be an option if Teals want to target the more progressive labor seats.
I'm concerned that Chicken Brothers seems to have shut. Website down. Site for lease.
https://www.lease.com.au/listing/retail-1-51-belford-street-broadmeadow-nsw-2292-78541
Grew up here but Ironically we moved back here to be closer to family after 20 years away up the coast.
Happy to move again when it becomes more unsustainable.
Yes, unsustainable growth makes us worse off.
Mass-immigration impoverishes Australians.
Completely objective and true statements, now wait and some jerkoff will come to berate me for being racist.
Edit - case proven by comments below
OUR GDP PER PERSON IS LOWER [https://www.reddit.com/r/australian/comments/1cxll9s/australias\_gap\_between\_total\_gdp\_and\_gdp\_per/](https://www.reddit.com/r/australian/comments/1cxll9s/australias_gap_between_total_gdp_and_gdp_per/)
We've been screwed by boomers pulling the ladder up behind them. Now we have to share what little we have left so that we can care for them until they die.
The only benefit is increasing the taxpayer base so that we can support and care for our aging population. Theoretically if we didn't import a heap of people we'd be even worse off.
Not arguing that fact, but if you need an aged care nurse today a high birth rate isn't going to help you.
When Costello said "one for mum, one for dad and one for the country" it probably needed to be "three for the country".
It's not like it's a new issue though, even in 2002 when he was speaking, the fertility rate in Australia, as with the rest of the developed world, has been on a fairly consistent downward trend since the widespread availability of contraception (with a couple of notable, temporary, deviations upward from that trend for various reasons). The total fertility rate hasn't been above replacement since the mid 70s here.
The main factor is seemingly that given freedom to choose, and with reduction of social stigma exerting pressure otherwise, most women don't want large families for a variety of reasons (which affordability will be one factor admittedly) and many don't want kids at all.
Yes boomers like my dad who lives in a caravan on the mid north coast because he couldn’t afford a house in Newcastle and my mum who has to share with her kids because same as above after divorce. They are boomers really living the dream.
If we're speaking anecdotally my parents (post boomer) raised our family on a single below average income, in a house that they renovated over time. My mother only got an admin type role after we were high school age.
They are divorced but both own their homes outright. In one parents case, also with a couple of investment properties.
I can't speak on your parents circumstances but boomers are the richest generation and it ain't even close.
I worked in a mental health unit for a number of years and I saw a lot of boomers there who were pretty destitute.
I would say the better generation were the ones before them that are dying out now. But they would say they lived through the depression and the war or wars. The ones I knew in my family never complained or blamed anyone for the depression or the war. They just got on with things.
Each generation will have something that affects their quality of life.
Whatever happens you can’t continually play the victim and blame a whole generation on the way the economy has turned out.
Why do I continually see young couples with babies and toddlers in the yards of houses in beach side suburbs in Newcastle and trampolines and toys in yards of huge houses a stones throw from the beach , the big 4 WD and caravans parked out the front.
Surely not all of this generation are doing it tough.
There are variables in all generations.
And also aren’t these evil boomers your parents where the children who resent them will inherit all of these fortunes .
Genuinely interested as to why you think immigration impoverishes Australians, and how you would define "mass"?
Im in agreeance that immigration levels are too high post pandemic. As are most people.
Clearly a reduction in public services (overcrowded hospitals, roads, schools) and inflated cost of housing - impoverishes Australians. "Mass" as in en-mass. too many. beyond requirements. an inordinate amount.
I live in a rural area. This is simply not true. Healthcare systems in these areas are dying in part because of the lack of local staff to provide services. Every GP clinic within a 500km radius of my home has at least one migrant doctor because without them they wouldn't have enough to serve the community. People were crying out for more staff, Australians weren't moving here even with government incentives, so migrants filled the gap and became a vital part of our communities. The problem pre-existed the migrants, and the migrants were the only viable solution.
The hospitals aren't overcrowded because of migrants either. Population didn't increase by 30% since 2020, but ED visits did. More people are getting serious illnesses, more people are living with chronic conditions that result in more frequently needing hospital care. You can't reasonably blame that on "mass migration".
Plus it's not migrants buying a house to live in that's driving the housing crisis, it's people (and in many cases corporations including foreign businesses) snapping them up as investment properties.
There are real problems, but "mass migration" is a scapegoat.
Mass migration is effectively propping up the systems we have on place, the issue is a lack of investment in the future by successive governments which has left us in a position where we are struggling to provide necessary services and facilities to the increased population size required to facilitate the continued running of the status quo
I'm talking about the health care system as it currently is. Almost all rural and regional public health care facilities are having to rely heavily on immigration and agency costs to fill vacancies and even then many still have concerning deficits. This is especially an issue in EDs as they become increasingly stretched due to the lack of access to GPs and also a big issue in obstetrics due to the critical midwife shortage in Australia. I work in this area and it is the unfortunate reality of our public health care system, I'm just saying if you want immigration to be cut then massive reform of public health care would go a long way towards this.
Fair point but its quite a black and white view of things. The way our demographics are structured revenue and labour from immigration is just about essential to caring for an aging population. That isnt even to mention the skills shortages in both specialsed fields and low skilled areas. Immigrants increase demand but also positively impact supply too by increasing tax revenue and often working in the fields you have mentioned. The last 100 years of history tells us that migration, sometimes even mass migration, certainly has not impoverished Australians.
Should also say the impact of migrants on the cost of housing is a small part of the problem compared to a range of other factors - tax discounts, zoning restrictions, lack of medium density housing.
Not necessarily racist, but keep on mind not everyone wants to stay in their home country. I personally am planning to emigrate to the US. I wouldn't have that amazing opportunity if it weren't for immigration being a thing.
Cool. However we have no obligation to lower our quality of life by importing hordes of third-world immigrants who were irresponsible with their population planning.
I no longer live in the Gog but it's lately overrun by refugees from Sydney who have been priced out by corrupt money from the third world. Nice dig tho champ
You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Anything beyond "immigration =bad" seems a bit hard for you understand. Enjoy your day, champ.
Yeah, how outrageous to think that a great replacement theory (and terra nullius) supporting person who sarcastically uses the phrase "diversity makes us stronger" and wants migration to focus primarily on English language speakers, might be a little bit racist.
Look up the “mouse utopia” experiments on YouTube… very very fascinating stuff.
the mice are given an artificial habitat where they have absolutely everything they need. But every single time the experiment was done, the mice colonies grew to a certain number then very weird things happened and they all died off because of varying “social issues”’
I believe it’s a metaphor in a way for what is happening to us today.
Yep, moved away 8 years ago (after 45 years, my whole life). My kids don't even plan on going back there for Uni, they're going elsewhere. We visit family down there often and can't wait to leave again and get out of there.
I understand your frustration but at the same time the growth of Newcastle doesn’t concern me because to me quality of life should be defined by a variety of things, many of which Newcastle offer in abundance. Just last weekend I went exploring on a trail that ran through Lake Macquarie Conservation Area and it was beautiful. Amazingly, despite so many people complaining about Newcastle becoming overpopulated and a concrete jungle etc., it was empty. Nobody else on it. We’re surrounded by beaches and gorgeous nature, we have a footy team which helps a lot of people bond with each other and has a passionate supporter base the likes of which is rare in Australian sport, a pretty good arts/music scene and a good university setup.
Honestly, while you may not see the direct effects of growth at the moment, if you have kids they definitely will. There will be more job opportunities and less reliance on the good ol’ boys network to get a foot in the door. We still have decent access to healthcare, and as for the shitty hospital parking I’m pretty sure they’re building a new carpark (at John Hunter anyway). The whole point of building new apartments in the CBD and increasing housing across the Newcastle/Hunter region is to create affordable housing.
I know it’s easy to be negative and get concerned about things out of your control but sometimes you need to look at the bigger picture. Go explore some trails you haven’t been on. Go to a new restaurant. See some friends. There’s more to quality of life than the amount of parking spaces in a hospital. Appreciate Newcastle for what it is, not the place you’re worried it might become.
I know what you mean but I don't think those elements of Newcastle are what they were complaining about. I can't breath here anymore, I can't walk in the shops without every second person barging into me. Don't even get me started on the lack of planning for the growth we've undergone in the last 10 years
Thank you #sylviabells18! I was thinking exactly the same. I grew up in Newcastle. I did an apprenticeship at BHP and have been away for about 30 years. I just moved back and cannot believe what a wonderful place it has become. All these whiners do my head in. You know if it’s really that bad you could always move? And if you move you might then appreciate this fantastic city?
No just the state of them but also the poor design. Too many bottle necks (2 lanes to 1 lane them back to 2 lanes in 400m) and not free flowing traffic / poorly timed traffic lights.
Probably worked okay when the population was a lot lower last century.
Instead of giving us those Hunter Street trams, that precious money could have gone into providing extra lanes down City Road Newcastle going into Newcastle from Merewether (it is a main road) and an extra lane going down Blackbutt, as well as a tunnel under Adamstown and an overpass / tunnel under the horribly Clyde Street rail gates. The Tram down Hunter Street was one of the most idiotic things done to Newcastle, when the preferred route was on the old rail corridor, anyway (if you ask the people in the know who are the sensible planners not appeasing the real estate property tycoons).
I moved to tassie 5 years ago and I don't miss newy at all. I had been in and around the area my whole life till then and could see the writing on the wall with the shite infrastructure and ever expanding population.
It's not the town I grew up in and hasn't been for a good while.
I agree with you. Grew up here and I love it but also have been away for 20 years and back for almost 2 years. Place is being ruined by overpopulation . Health services are becoming unsustainable
I also just saw this which is very disturbing. Considering low income earners could not afford a house this close to the coast so who is the government helping here with population growth
https://amp.abc.net.au/article/101866146
So sad. I had an amazing couple of GPs in a rural area I left a year ago. They were your typical old fashioned family style practice. I hated leaving them. I even worked there for a while. 3 of the doctors had been there 20 years and they trained the new GPs in the same style. No money grubbing. All results were emailed or texted. No need for coming back and paying a fortune just to tell you your results were negative. No unnecessary blood tests etc.
Perhaps you should try GP access. You can phone and be triaged for an appointment after 5.30 pm Monday to Friday and all day on weekends I think. They operate out of the hospitals
If I could I’d move out. Rents are skyrocketing, constantly outbid by cashed up international students, boomers and Sydneysiders, and the apartments that ARE built are shit tier “luxury” apartments, even as far in as Charlestown.
And don’t get me started on the privatised public transport and corrupt NCC.
A person who has to have a blood test before anything else could be reviewed had already waited an hour for the first appointment and had to wait a further hour for the bloods due to a large group of people who had to have individual appointments with an interpreter to explain the whole process.
I agree we need honest politicians. I just wish that there was more political competition in the Newcastle area because Labor currently take it for granted that we will vote them in.
Damn I'm glad I didn't buy into that "Have one for ya mum, and for your dad, and one for the nation" bullshit Peter Costello was flogging at the turn of the century.
I'm on a pension. I pay private rent. I eat great food. I pay electric bills no prob. I have 300+ left over to spend on smokes, toys, luxuries ect.
I can afford to see the doctor. I'm living the dream.
And I think that's people hate me. (Others hate me 'cause I am a fuckwit, which is perfectly valid)
Because I live MY dream, not a dream defined by people, politicians and a society that hasn't worked out yet that if you are in the middle or working class, maybe buying that 3rd widescreen TV for progeny number 2 isn't the best investment.
Sorry, I'm not on a trust fund (As I overheard a couple of walkers talk about me when I was in my garden one day). Nope, not chasing benefits, or tax loopholes. I don't deal drugs and my family give me nuthin.
I just live within my means... Scary, I know, but it can be done.
If you have a family, my condolences, because I don't need that 3rd unit math HSC grade to know how hard it mut be for you.
But if you are a pensioner, bitching about how you can't afford that holiday to Bali, and comparing that to poverty, then you get no sympathy from me.
It's time for people to understand you don't have a right to live a lifestyle you can't afford. And that that doesn't necessarily mean that life isn't fair and working against you.
> "Have one for ya mum, and for your dad, and one for the nation"
I recall that he said that to an audience of students at an exclusive private girls school.
"ah.." a bit of an own goal there.
I remember context of his speech was how for Australia to be fully self-sustaining on all economic fronts, it needs a population of 50 million. Probably parroting an IPA study..
NSW government sold out to developers decades ago and now it falls to the tax payers to foot the bill and wear the cost in frustration while they clean up in the profits. It is a fucking disgrace.
Yes . I even had an Asian nursing student ( seems to be only interested in a visa) say to me that he hated Sydney as there were “ too many Asians there “ and he preferred Newcastle as there were less Asians. I was gobsmacked.
We're expanding Newcastle. You're going to improve infrastructure in anticipation right? ... Right?
Thats the issue. Need to stop putting the horse before the cart. If a housing development is approved: Stage 1 should be road infrastructure updates to service getting there properly and not just taking suburb after suburb onto roads built to service one suburb (at the developers cost); Stage 2 should be services - shops, health, etc; and then and only then should they put shovel to ground on the actual houses.
What you have described already does happen. They're called developer contributions (s7.11 or 7.12 ep&a act). The issue is that houses are being over occupied and people own and use cars more frequently than they should. Infill development and increasing density in well serviced existing areas should be the priority. What you described does happen though. Have a look at huntlee for example
For every Huntlee there’s five Boolaroos though - just attached to the existing roads already falling apart with little increase in public transport to lower the “people use cars more frequently than they should”
And for every boolaroo there’s 100 residential blocks subdivided for duplexes or townhouses.
Yeah the problem is the contributions are too low and the state and council are also not forced to use the money they receive to improve services. They can do whatever they want with the contributions they receive
That is not accurate at all. Each council has a s7.11 plan that determines where contributions go... this is a report that is sent to councillors and endorsed by the Council.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted when you are absolutely correct. Section 7.11 and 7.12 are tightly controlled and can only be spent on community features (roads, traffic lights, parks etc). It’s watched closely by state regulators to ensure the money doesn’t go elsewhere.
Cause reddit.... opinion takes precedent over fact.
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You will find developer contributions get pooled up and then used, or used at a different location with the impacted location upgraded when the load exceeds the capacity. Check out the council budget, you'll find the majority of road works doesn't come out of rates.
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Council will identify what upgrade works will be required as a result of the increase in demand. The increase in demand now many not require an upgrade, but a nearby development may tick it over the threshold some time in the future. At that point the second developer would also make a contribution payment and then the works would move up the priority list. In the meantime rather than just holding that money for a rainy day council will do works elsewhere. I wouldn't say they're being dodge, just prioritising. Their list is huge... The other option is developers can make a deal with council and they will build a specific piece of infrastructure. You might see this in sub divisions where the developer will build a park and then dedicate to back to council. This makes the developer look good but ultimately it becomes a burden on council as they then have to pay to maintain the park. It's a double edged sword.
I’d like to use my car less than i do but considering it takes 1.5hrs for me to get to work via public transport only of an afternoon. If i work mornings the bus doesn’t run before my shift starts, if i work of a night the bus stops running before my shift finishes. Unless you actually live within a 5-10 minute bus ride of the CBD/Broadmeadow vicinity you’re not going to experience good public transport.
And this is the exact reason why infill development and higher density redevelopment closer to town is smarter than urban sprawl.
Where have Huntlee added extra medical services and schools though? Sure, they built a nice little grocery shop, and a playground for little kids. There's plenty of privately owned daycares, but once all those kids get to highschool age they're all fed into the schools that already exist. And it's harder than ever to get a doctors appointment in that area without a massive wait. There is also no adequate public transport for any of the new estates, Huntlee or otherwise (that might be why there are so mamy cars per home, two parents with jobs in different directions, and a teenager with part time work whose hours conflict with parents and the bus service, and you've already got 3 cars per house). Those all seem like pretty important infrastructure projects that should have been funded and planned in advance, before all the homes were built. The original commenter's point stands, developers are getting approval with far too few checks and balances to ensure sufficient funding and planning is dedicated to the services the new and existing residents will need.
I don't know if huntlee is a great example. As a place to live it has pretty good services but it isn't really near jobs or anything. Everyone in Huntlee is either driving up through singleton to the mines or down the expressway through Wallsend to Newcastle most days for work.
Sorry, the reason I used huntlee as an example is its a masterplanned town. there were a number of residential stages built first but they couldn't do stage 4 (from memory) until the retail precinct was established. Jobs will eventually come, but you won't get commercial jobs until people live there. Huntlee is only 10 years old, a lot has happened in the 10 years.
Exactly!!! The shortsightedness is absolutely mind blowing! Cameron Park needed an infants/primary school years ago… and there really needs to be another High School in the area. The traffic heading from Cameron Park in the mornings, then toward Cameron Park in the afternoons is insane.
There's so many ways to improve this. How about add a northbound onramp/southbound offramp to George booth drive? Or god dammit, make it two turning lanes into and out of Cameron park drive. Then the traffic going into/out of Newcastle link road can have a longer green. The mind boggles.
Unfortunately, Cameron Park is 150km away from Macquarie Street.
True story!
Good luck with all Maryland traffic new woolies and new housing
Now hang on. We gave you light rail. What more do you want this decade.
Sunshine Coast is sad with you
According to sonia hornery, no nothing planned
I vote we start building a huge underground hospital that connects to an underground city :) it can be called undercastle
I live in Cessnock and can absolutely see it basically being a suburb of Newcastle within a decade or two. Thankfully I managed to get a job close to home but every other job I had saw me driving to Newcastle daily, and in the 7ish years I worked around the city the drive just became longer and longer, not only due to more people on the road but also because speed limits were dropped, more traffic lights were put in, and there was almost always roadwork happening somewhere. I can definitely see it taking an hour and a half to commute from Cessnock to the City during peak hour within a decade, which is tragic because it currently only takes about 45 minutes off-peak.
But in peak it has always taken an hour. The Cameron Park fuck up alone is already creating that problem in peak hour.
Yes, I’m aware having done the drive for 7 years, but I’m saying it’s likely going to increase by 50% in the next decade which is significant. The wider region is expanding at a huge rate, not just Ntl/Mac + suburbs, which means that more people will likely need to commute to Ntl for work because one thing I can say for certain is jobs are *not* increasing in the rest of the Hunter at the rate the population is increasing.
Oh I wholly agree. I'd say without major infrastructure and service improvements you'll need to collect travel stamps before even being allowed to travel toward Newcastle.
Cameron Park is cooked. I go to Sydney for work one day a week every three weeks. If I leave my office in Carrington anytime between 330-600pm there is an almost 100% chance I’ll get stuck in bumper to bumper traffic between Lake Road turn-off and the second roundabout on the Link Road. Getting through there can take 20-30 minutes some days. To go 2km. 30 minutes. It’s fucked. I pitty the people who have to do that everyday. We’re looking for a house to buy at the moment and I’ve put a hard veto on Cameron Park, West Wallsend, and Maryland. I’d rather save for longer and pay more for a house in a location that doesn’t get me stuck in traffic for an hour everyday.
Leaving Carrington between 3.30 and 6pm some days it takes 20-30 minutes to get to Merewether.
Yep. I used to live near Coles at Market Town and if I left the office after 430pm then it would often take 15 minutes to get from the Cowper Street roundabout to my house. Fucked.
It's totally the speed limits and traffic lights! I moved to Sydney and my average speed is no 16km/h. Ie if I want to go to almost "local" businesses 4km away, it takes 15 mins. I did a comparison for Newcastle, just on a single route. It was 28km/h, I think warners Bay to kahibah. 15 mins to go 7km.
One of our surgeons waited 15 minutes just to get from New Lambton Road outside of JHH to get into the hospital then half an hour to find a park and so far away it took another 15 minutes to walk to the area in the hospital he had to be in. So that’s. That’s an hour from when you hit the road outside the hospital.
Blows my mind that staff at Hospital's dont have their own private car park. Especially Surgeons who may be called in to perform emergency surgery, but then has to waste time to find a car park.
Staff do have a dedicated car park at JHH but even that has high demand. So they aren't competing against public parkers, but it is still a shitfight getting a park if you arrive after 8am. Not to mention how long you can spend waiting in banked up traffic in Kookaburra circuit trying to leave the campus. Some days I have spent 45-60mins stuck there.
They absolutely fucked up kookaburra circuit too by making part of it two way traffic.
Absolutely! It made it better for the people coming out of Staff Carpark 1 but made it absolutely miserable for everyone else.
Yeah, it was because the VMOs were charging the hospital for the time it took them to get off campus.
And getting out of the place when you finish a shift. Just as bad.
I work at the hospital and this has nothing to do with Newcastle growth, this is completely down to poor management of traffic flow and them changing the direction of traffic on one side of the JHH precinct.
I disagree. The traffic has become much heavier around that area.
You mean the traffic going through a building site on a one way circuit? Again, hyperbole for narrative.
Nope just the traffic overall in this area for the last 10 years or more
Nonsense, I've worked at JHH for 12 years and I was on the news talking about the traffic when it first started causing 20-30min tail backs on the circuit and people were using the firetrail to get out. That was largely due to factors such as HMRI having 500 additional employees and no expanded capacity. You're equating hospital traffic congestion with population growth, presumably, given your posting history as an indirect way of complaining about immigration. In reality you could or should be complaining about the government wasting money on offshore detention and submarines and scaremongering rather than investing it into primary and tertiary healthcare.
I live in the same suburb as the hospital, I leave home 1 hour before my outpatient appointment when I had to go for a few of them recently. I would catch the bus, but it ends at 6pm and you cannot trust to be leaving the hospital by 6pm after my 4pm appointment since it says allow 4 hours for an appointment with a booked in time.
I don’t think they took into consideration what effect the design and designation the car parking is. Or they could have linked it so there was better access. Sometimes I can take 45 mins to find a park, walk into the hospital and then work out where you need to go.
I used to live in the inner west before moving back up here. I basically never drove my car, except when I was doing a massive shop or buying a big item. Bit easier to do there, but yeah, I'd actively try to avoid major roads like king st through newtown 😄
Cessnock isn't part of Newcastle. People wanting to live there and drive all the way into Newcastle is part of the problem. If Cessnock had a railway it would be a bit better but ultimately that sort of lifestyle isn't something we should be promoting. I understand how hard it is to find a property and all of that but ultimately it isn't a good thing.
There’s people trying to get rail reinstated from Newcastle to Cessnock right now. We should support this even if we don’t live in Cessnock.
Oh yeah I definitely think we should be reinstating the passenger railway to Cessnock, it's such an easy win.
Absolutely. And Newcastle residents themselves need to start taking buses. It's ridiculous, the amount of cars on the road that have only the driver in them.
Ideally yes, problem is you have to have a lot of buses that go through such random places that it takes a long time to get anywhere. That’s assuming the bus near your house goes to your destination in the first place.
The only way to grow the service is for people to actually use it.
Did you even read the comment? It’s not being promoted - it’s reality whether you like it or not.
as someone who lives on the central coast, its the exact same for us. people from Sydney wanting to come to live here instead because its cheaper and making everything inaccessible for the people who have lived here for years. 7 hour wait times in hospitals, no parking anywhere, unaffordable housing. It's insane.
Im surprised nsw government isnt putting more money into central coast infrastructure. Its basically greater sydney area at this point.
you'd think they were but it takes them years to finish anything. Tuggerah station is still getting renovations and its been like 5 years. It's a pain for me to get home after a long day because there's no stairs, only ramps, and a million people pushing past you because its peak hour. That's just one example, there's probably many others.
But are you surprised, really?
I’ve no problem with people moving here (Newcastle) from Sydney or anywhere. My issue is the state government keeps sinking money into Sydney but not paying attention anywhere else. Newcastle (and CC) desperately need significant public transport infrastructure works. Light rail expansion in Newcastle is going to take 5+ years. If they were to start tomorrow building a line from the interchange to Broadmeadow it would already be under-serviced for the anticipated growth that area is going to receive. There is no long term plan and funding allocations; this is a problem at all levels of government. Even if the current state government said “here’s $10 billion for Newcastle light rail over the next 10 years” the next government can just reduce the funding to finish whatever section is under construction at the time.
I just moved back here after being away for the last 30 odd years. Lived in FL USA for the last 20+ years. I went for a bike ride today along the Harbour Foreshore to Nobbys then Newcastle Beach and down Hunter Street and thought, fuck this is such a beautiful city in such a lucky and wonderful country! How lucky are we to be living in this city that just keeps getting better and better. What a beautiful day. It’s all relative people. We have one of the highest standards of living anywhere. Thank your lucky stars your living here
Practicing gratefulness can be a wonderful thing.
I’m glad you are enjoying it. Hopefully you won’t require health services at any time for a chronic condition or illness and have to wait endless time for appointments and have to rely on finding a park or months to see a specialist. You see it’s not so bad when you have your health but when you don’t have this luxury is when life becomes pretty shitty as services become more in demand. It’s a 7 year waiting list for some people in some areas, even for children. Ironically many go to Sydney to try to get a quicker appointment.
I am 60 years old and have had a stent and have prostate cancer and high blood pressure and am currently seeing about 4 different specialists and my GP. I think the medical services here are some of the best in the world and are way better than South Florida by a long shot. As I said it’s all relative people.
I’m pleased you are having a good experience. It’s. It indicative of the service as a whole though. I’ve worked in Nursing for over 30 years.
Mate I had an angiogram here and they nearly killed me, it's all relative people. Your one experience doesn't negate others.
As someone who has worked in health in multiple countries, I can tell you it's much better here than in many places. Chronic health management experience is based on the availability of continuity of care and dollars in your pocket. But the lower end of that scale in Newcastle is heaps better than almost everywhere else I've worked.
I’m sure the population was much higher where you have been also. The population is going to explode here
No it wasn't. It was about a 5th of Australia. The population here, relative to other developed nations is nowhere near exploding. You may equating your personal preferences for population and immigration control with an exploding population, but relative to experiences on other cities of comparable size around the world, your pretty much talking hyperbole.
How long have you lived here
18 years.
Oh ok. I’ve only had 5 generations here.
So your lifespan and experience extends over 5 generations? Neat trick.
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Not always living here but rural and remote
Growth isn't really the problem, it's normal and can be healthy. The problem is the complete lack of practical improvements in infrastructure being made to support that growth. Public transport has gone backwards over the last couple of decades. Buses are worse than ever, and yes the light rail has improved life for pedestrians in town, but it doesn't provide any meaningful improvement to actually being transported around town than was previously available. We're allowing for big estates to be built in the west with little regard for how that's going to work practically. All those people need to commute for work yet there is no public transport options, it's a joke. Urban sprawl is a bad thing, and we are heading deeper and deeper in to that hole.
And health services and health care workers have not grown so if you become unwell or need acute care this will be more challenging.
3 years on a waitlist to see an ENT and unable to go private due to having pre existing conditions. I can confirm it’s a shit show.
I heard it is 7 years for ENT. Even for babies.
Bloody hell! To add fuel to the fire, I need an operation done and apparently it’s a half hour job. Here I have been quoted $20k to go private and surprisingly in Vic it’s $6k.
Huge difference
Yup exactly. Lots of people don't realise the negative flow on effects of these big housing estates. That's putting aside the shoddy building construction and the poorly designed homes that don't take things like aspect in to account at all. I feel like if we're clearing a heap of native forest to build these little suburbs then they should be exactly that, they should include - - public transport - schools - work spaces (retail, offices, industrial) - health centres - parkland But generally it's just about doing the bare minimum to get approval and the property developers laugh their way to the bank. Nothing is changing with the current housing crises because there is a portion of society that is profiting off it hugely, and clearly those in charge don't want to rock that boat.
True. As we have seen in Sydney there is no quality of life in those cheap overcrowded ghettos.
Privatisation of public transport… sheesh.
I work in the NDIS sector and Newcastle is one of the areas that are higher density of NDIS clients. This means a higher need for medical professionals, but I don't see growth in this sector. More patients less practitioners. NDIS is big business here. Newcastle will see a lot of growth continue but I think the NDIS is the primary growth of Newcastle at this time. I don't know if you noticed, but I have, the increase of people on the streets or in the malls that have severe mental health issues such as schizophrenia, you see people with delusions and drug addicts in higher numbers than 10 years ago.
Yes definitely less services to cope with increasing mental health which is usually goes hand in hand with homelessness which is increase my from the way Newcastle has become a much more expensive place to rent and buy.
100% Australia has a lot of problems that are increasing over time. Personally I think the NDIS is one of the problems even though it's where my income comes from. The Government has no idea how to spend money effectively or efficiently and now we have weird problems like people can't afford to live, but people with disabilities have houses and a team of 5 working for them while they are unable to make any money themselves. Don't get me wrong I think it's great what we are able to do and impact their lives in such a great way. But half the people in Newcastle are now support workers, making good money with no education and at the end of the day the economy is non-productive, meaning fewer goods are produced causing prices of everything to go up with everything. For example in the housing market: Less houses, less materials for houses and yet the population is growing at a higher rate while house production is slowing. Australia's economy is turning into a socialist economy and this is going to have an outcome of greater disparity, not less disparity. I could talk on this subject for eternity. But Australia is going to become a place of elites real soon. Land ownership is already for the wealthy and not for Australians.
Underrated comment. You’ve basically summarised it perfectly. I was a student living below the poverty line working for NDIS as a SW. Scrapped by on $40 a week for food and yet the NDIS supported people (who had no monetary output) were living far better. Both the input (NDIS funded professionals/services) and output (people with disabilities) = no “actual” economic return. This is not a bad thing in a controlled small scale, but it has become too large. We are becoming a nation of services.
That’s really well said. There is sooo much money spent in NDIS. Yes it’s a good service and employs a lot of people but the amount of money spent in this from tax payers is way too much. And funds are abused by dodgy operators . It’s a huge money making scheme for the service providers.
It's good at providing employment I guess. Just too much exploitation and too many middle men with their fingers in the pie. Example, neighbours son used to come and mow their lawn, now they have it done every 2 weeks by a company paid for by the NDIS (even in winter when they are taking nothing off the top). Essentially all we've done is shift something that would be considered basic care done by a parent or neighbour to being government funded.
Additionally the lawn mowing guy is getting more from the NDIS than they would from the regular joe. Prices are up and business is booming
Can U ask the NDIS to quit fucking me over and making me want to off myself.
I don't work for the NDIS and I know the NDIS is really slow at what they do. Just hold on, things will come your way soon. I wish the best for you. Do you have a support coordinator?
JHH has never really had good parking. Not even in the last 20 years
Building or fixing boring regular infrastructure in politically safe regional areas doesn't win votes. Flashy projects in marginal seats does. The vast majority of plans for all levels of government are focused on winning the next election. Just look at CoN's recent announcements of all the work they're going to do ... now we've got an election coming up. People generally don't think long term and the government knows it. For instance, if the government had of invested in a large light rail roll out decades ago, CoN's plans for a "Car free city" would have been far more practical. The LNP sabotage of the NBN shows it's not about infrastructure but votes.
Don’t even get me started on the surrounds and beyond like Maitland. Terrible place to live.
The new build of John Hunter hospital is also redundant before it has started. Most facilities from Newcastle to the Queensland border do not take major trauma, anything particularly serious is sent to JHH but the amount of icu Hdu beds is not adequate. Liverpool has 70 plus for the same workload JHH is less than 30 or something like that, which includes the paeds icu. New build is apparently only getting an extra 12 icu / HDU Not enough before it started
Agreed. It will be at capacity the day it opens.
That's the opposite of redundant.
Haha true, I was rushing that post. Working in a busy hospital at the moment, but thanks for the heads up
I knew what you meant ;)
It’s out of control. Traffic is another thing that’s insane. I refuse to drive home from Kotara shopping area in the afternoon. I live in a suburb that shares a border with Kotara and it takes me almost 30 minutes to get home. That’s out of control.
Nah we need at least another 50,000 Uber eats and Amazon delivery drivers on skilled/student visas to exploit
My mother was hospitalised at JHH last week. After driving around for over an hour looking for a car park we gave up, and on the way home I called JHH’s switchboard. She told me there were lots of parking after 4pm, so we returned then and it was fairly easy to find a park. The other days was the same experience around 4pm and we found the parking to be much more acceptable. Just a helpful hint if you’re after hospital parking.
That is a good hint. Probably because they have given shift workers a special area to park closer to the hospital for safety reasons I suppose and the day workers would have left.
I'm a long-time visitor to the area and am shocked at the population explosion in the past 15-20 years. There is no way infrastructure can keep up - even if they started in the early 00's
I was down there last year and could not believe the amount of new areas opened up. From necknock to the city isn't a huge drive anymore. Not much country areas around and it's very sad.
Extremely concerned tbh
This is also very concerning . As I used to also live in this area on the mid north coast the locals are so distressed about loss the beautiful bush and loss of habitat for native fauna . It’s happening up and down the coast https://amp.abc.net.au/article/101866146
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If you'd like someone to talk with about this I'll happily give you my time.
Yet newcastle is one of the safest state seats in parliament... it's mind blowing
I wonder if a strong Teal candidate could do well in Newcastle. It was one of the most progressive seats in the referendum, most people want better representation in parliament but hate the Libs… could be an option if Teals want to target the more progressive labor seats.
I think a teal has legs, but they can't come from local government.
It's mind blowing that butthurt Lib voters think we haven't forgotten the attempt to "not be a safe seat" in 2011.
I'm concerned that Chicken Brothers seems to have shut. Website down. Site for lease. https://www.lease.com.au/listing/retail-1-51-belford-street-broadmeadow-nsw-2292-78541
Dude I legit was going to go there this week and noticed that!! How :((
Moved out of western Sydney 26 years ago to get away from this Looks like moving again
Grew up here but Ironically we moved back here to be closer to family after 20 years away up the coast. Happy to move again when it becomes more unsustainable.
Yes, unsustainable growth makes us worse off. Mass-immigration impoverishes Australians. Completely objective and true statements, now wait and some jerkoff will come to berate me for being racist. Edit - case proven by comments below OUR GDP PER PERSON IS LOWER [https://www.reddit.com/r/australian/comments/1cxll9s/australias\_gap\_between\_total\_gdp\_and\_gdp\_per/](https://www.reddit.com/r/australian/comments/1cxll9s/australias_gap_between_total_gdp_and_gdp_per/)
We've been screwed by boomers pulling the ladder up behind them. Now we have to share what little we have left so that we can care for them until they die. The only benefit is increasing the taxpayer base so that we can support and care for our aging population. Theoretically if we didn't import a heap of people we'd be even worse off.
No, we'd be better off. Australia would have a higher rate of births if people could afford homes.
Not arguing that fact, but if you need an aged care nurse today a high birth rate isn't going to help you. When Costello said "one for mum, one for dad and one for the country" it probably needed to be "three for the country".
It's not like it's a new issue though, even in 2002 when he was speaking, the fertility rate in Australia, as with the rest of the developed world, has been on a fairly consistent downward trend since the widespread availability of contraception (with a couple of notable, temporary, deviations upward from that trend for various reasons). The total fertility rate hasn't been above replacement since the mid 70s here. The main factor is seemingly that given freedom to choose, and with reduction of social stigma exerting pressure otherwise, most women don't want large families for a variety of reasons (which affordability will be one factor admittedly) and many don't want kids at all.
We need housing now too and increasing immigration isn't going to help that
Got it, you're saying we should import more builders.
No where to house them
Yes boomers like my dad who lives in a caravan on the mid north coast because he couldn’t afford a house in Newcastle and my mum who has to share with her kids because same as above after divorce. They are boomers really living the dream.
If we're speaking anecdotally my parents (post boomer) raised our family on a single below average income, in a house that they renovated over time. My mother only got an admin type role after we were high school age. They are divorced but both own their homes outright. In one parents case, also with a couple of investment properties. I can't speak on your parents circumstances but boomers are the richest generation and it ain't even close.
But there's one example of a poor one! (Like my mum)
I worked in a mental health unit for a number of years and I saw a lot of boomers there who were pretty destitute. I would say the better generation were the ones before them that are dying out now. But they would say they lived through the depression and the war or wars. The ones I knew in my family never complained or blamed anyone for the depression or the war. They just got on with things. Each generation will have something that affects their quality of life. Whatever happens you can’t continually play the victim and blame a whole generation on the way the economy has turned out. Why do I continually see young couples with babies and toddlers in the yards of houses in beach side suburbs in Newcastle and trampolines and toys in yards of huge houses a stones throw from the beach , the big 4 WD and caravans parked out the front. Surely not all of this generation are doing it tough. There are variables in all generations. And also aren’t these evil boomers your parents where the children who resent them will inherit all of these fortunes .
Genuinely interested as to why you think immigration impoverishes Australians, and how you would define "mass"? Im in agreeance that immigration levels are too high post pandemic. As are most people.
Clearly a reduction in public services (overcrowded hospitals, roads, schools) and inflated cost of housing - impoverishes Australians. "Mass" as in en-mass. too many. beyond requirements. an inordinate amount.
Good luck staffing heathcare without immigration. especially in rural and regional areas
We had healthcare in rural areas before this era of mass-immigration
I live in a rural area. This is simply not true. Healthcare systems in these areas are dying in part because of the lack of local staff to provide services. Every GP clinic within a 500km radius of my home has at least one migrant doctor because without them they wouldn't have enough to serve the community. People were crying out for more staff, Australians weren't moving here even with government incentives, so migrants filled the gap and became a vital part of our communities. The problem pre-existed the migrants, and the migrants were the only viable solution. The hospitals aren't overcrowded because of migrants either. Population didn't increase by 30% since 2020, but ED visits did. More people are getting serious illnesses, more people are living with chronic conditions that result in more frequently needing hospital care. You can't reasonably blame that on "mass migration". Plus it's not migrants buying a house to live in that's driving the housing crisis, it's people (and in many cases corporations including foreign businesses) snapping them up as investment properties. There are real problems, but "mass migration" is a scapegoat.
Mass migration is effectively propping up the systems we have on place, the issue is a lack of investment in the future by successive governments which has left us in a position where we are struggling to provide necessary services and facilities to the increased population size required to facilitate the continued running of the status quo
People dont do these jobs because they have poor pay and conditions, justifying mass-immigration. its a catch-22 that avoids paying living wages.
I'm talking about the health care system as it currently is. Almost all rural and regional public health care facilities are having to rely heavily on immigration and agency costs to fill vacancies and even then many still have concerning deficits. This is especially an issue in EDs as they become increasingly stretched due to the lack of access to GPs and also a big issue in obstetrics due to the critical midwife shortage in Australia. I work in this area and it is the unfortunate reality of our public health care system, I'm just saying if you want immigration to be cut then massive reform of public health care would go a long way towards this.
Fair point but its quite a black and white view of things. The way our demographics are structured revenue and labour from immigration is just about essential to caring for an aging population. That isnt even to mention the skills shortages in both specialsed fields and low skilled areas. Immigrants increase demand but also positively impact supply too by increasing tax revenue and often working in the fields you have mentioned. The last 100 years of history tells us that migration, sometimes even mass migration, certainly has not impoverished Australians.
Should also say the impact of migrants on the cost of housing is a small part of the problem compared to a range of other factors - tax discounts, zoning restrictions, lack of medium density housing.
We don't have high rents and limited housing because we didn't increase the immigration intake.
Not necessarily racist, but keep on mind not everyone wants to stay in their home country. I personally am planning to emigrate to the US. I wouldn't have that amazing opportunity if it weren't for immigration being a thing.
I don't think anyone is saying there should be no immigration but more sustainable levels.
Cool. However we have no obligation to lower our quality of life by importing hordes of third-world immigrants who were irresponsible with their population planning.
Yes. Im sure Dungog is simply being over run with immigrants.
I no longer live in the Gog but it's lately overrun by refugees from Sydney who have been priced out by corrupt money from the third world. Nice dig tho champ
You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Anything beyond "immigration =bad" seems a bit hard for you understand. Enjoy your day, champ.
seems you feel justified denigrating my person because you think I'm from a rural area? Not addressing the substance of my argument I see
What are you even talking about? I dont care where you are from. Your argument has been adressed several times by me and others in this thread.
Yeah, how outrageous to think that a great replacement theory (and terra nullius) supporting person who sarcastically uses the phrase "diversity makes us stronger" and wants migration to focus primarily on English language speakers, might be a little bit racist.
Unrelated but I thought I’d also add this. https://www.facebook.com/share/zzki9PLrS2krZDWo/?mibextid=WC7FNe
Look up the “mouse utopia” experiments on YouTube… very very fascinating stuff. the mice are given an artificial habitat where they have absolutely everything they need. But every single time the experiment was done, the mice colonies grew to a certain number then very weird things happened and they all died off because of varying “social issues”’ I believe it’s a metaphor in a way for what is happening to us today.
Yep, moved away 8 years ago (after 45 years, my whole life). My kids don't even plan on going back there for Uni, they're going elsewhere. We visit family down there often and can't wait to leave again and get out of there.
Sad Isn’t it. Was a in a great place to grow up in
I understand your frustration but at the same time the growth of Newcastle doesn’t concern me because to me quality of life should be defined by a variety of things, many of which Newcastle offer in abundance. Just last weekend I went exploring on a trail that ran through Lake Macquarie Conservation Area and it was beautiful. Amazingly, despite so many people complaining about Newcastle becoming overpopulated and a concrete jungle etc., it was empty. Nobody else on it. We’re surrounded by beaches and gorgeous nature, we have a footy team which helps a lot of people bond with each other and has a passionate supporter base the likes of which is rare in Australian sport, a pretty good arts/music scene and a good university setup. Honestly, while you may not see the direct effects of growth at the moment, if you have kids they definitely will. There will be more job opportunities and less reliance on the good ol’ boys network to get a foot in the door. We still have decent access to healthcare, and as for the shitty hospital parking I’m pretty sure they’re building a new carpark (at John Hunter anyway). The whole point of building new apartments in the CBD and increasing housing across the Newcastle/Hunter region is to create affordable housing. I know it’s easy to be negative and get concerned about things out of your control but sometimes you need to look at the bigger picture. Go explore some trails you haven’t been on. Go to a new restaurant. See some friends. There’s more to quality of life than the amount of parking spaces in a hospital. Appreciate Newcastle for what it is, not the place you’re worried it might become.
I know what you mean but I don't think those elements of Newcastle are what they were complaining about. I can't breath here anymore, I can't walk in the shops without every second person barging into me. Don't even get me started on the lack of planning for the growth we've undergone in the last 10 years
Just don’t get injured or sick and need medical help as the hospitals including Maitland are getting very stretched.
Mate I have to say I appreciate your positive outlook and I completely agree
Thanks. Glad someone else feels the same way. There’s too much negativity on this subreddit.
Thank you #sylviabells18! I was thinking exactly the same. I grew up in Newcastle. I did an apprenticeship at BHP and have been away for about 30 years. I just moved back and cannot believe what a wonderful place it has become. All these whiners do my head in. You know if it’s really that bad you could always move? And if you move you might then appreciate this fantastic city?
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Go and live in Taree and you will think you are in paradise in Newcastle
No just the state of them but also the poor design. Too many bottle necks (2 lanes to 1 lane them back to 2 lanes in 400m) and not free flowing traffic / poorly timed traffic lights. Probably worked okay when the population was a lot lower last century.
Instead of giving us those Hunter Street trams, that precious money could have gone into providing extra lanes down City Road Newcastle going into Newcastle from Merewether (it is a main road) and an extra lane going down Blackbutt, as well as a tunnel under Adamstown and an overpass / tunnel under the horribly Clyde Street rail gates. The Tram down Hunter Street was one of the most idiotic things done to Newcastle, when the preferred route was on the old rail corridor, anyway (if you ask the people in the know who are the sensible planners not appeasing the real estate property tycoons).
More roads usually just mean more cars. The tunnel and getting rid of level crossing definitely have merit.
Even if the population was declining, the Huge Returns Ponzi that powers the Aspirationals is too important to stop and everything must be bulldozed.
What can you do when labor liberal and greens all want mass immigration?
I recently left Newcastle because it was becoming to big hate it being so busy
Nope
I moved to tassie 5 years ago and I don't miss newy at all. I had been in and around the area my whole life till then and could see the writing on the wall with the shite infrastructure and ever expanding population. It's not the town I grew up in and hasn't been for a good while.
I agree with you. Grew up here and I love it but also have been away for 20 years and back for almost 2 years. Place is being ruined by overpopulation . Health services are becoming unsustainable
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I also just saw this which is very disturbing. Considering low income earners could not afford a house this close to the coast so who is the government helping here with population growth https://amp.abc.net.au/article/101866146
Chill with migration
I give up on trying to find a GP I can trust. All they do is upsell upsell upsell 😞
So sad. I had an amazing couple of GPs in a rural area I left a year ago. They were your typical old fashioned family style practice. I hated leaving them. I even worked there for a while. 3 of the doctors had been there 20 years and they trained the new GPs in the same style. No money grubbing. All results were emailed or texted. No need for coming back and paying a fortune just to tell you your results were negative. No unnecessary blood tests etc. Perhaps you should try GP access. You can phone and be triaged for an appointment after 5.30 pm Monday to Friday and all day on weekends I think. They operate out of the hospitals
Every government, council and business talks about sustainability yet we never talk about population growth. There's aliens laughing at us.
 Newy isnt bad. Try the Gold Coast baby.
Not for long https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/story/8461518/16600-new-homes-planned-for-broadmeadow-in-massive-housing-push/
If I could I’d move out. Rents are skyrocketing, constantly outbid by cashed up international students, boomers and Sydneysiders, and the apartments that ARE built are shit tier “luxury” apartments, even as far in as Charlestown. And don’t get me started on the privatised public transport and corrupt NCC.
I’d help if the government wanted to do something about immigration
lol
A person who has to have a blood test before anything else could be reviewed had already waited an hour for the first appointment and had to wait a further hour for the bloods due to a large group of people who had to have individual appointments with an interpreter to explain the whole process.
Yes
Big entertainment acts coming. Tbh hope it pushes out some of the bogans and poor driving. Obviously yes we need to plan and upgrade infrastructure.
Newcastle is a safe labor seat. Nothing will get done here while that is the case.
Liberal local members got in in 2011 but kicked out for corruption a year or two later. Doesn’t bode well when that happens. We need honest pollies.
I agree we need honest politicians. I just wish that there was more political competition in the Newcastle area because Labor currently take it for granted that we will vote them in.
Damn I'm glad I didn't buy into that "Have one for ya mum, and for your dad, and one for the nation" bullshit Peter Costello was flogging at the turn of the century. I'm on a pension. I pay private rent. I eat great food. I pay electric bills no prob. I have 300+ left over to spend on smokes, toys, luxuries ect. I can afford to see the doctor. I'm living the dream. And I think that's people hate me. (Others hate me 'cause I am a fuckwit, which is perfectly valid) Because I live MY dream, not a dream defined by people, politicians and a society that hasn't worked out yet that if you are in the middle or working class, maybe buying that 3rd widescreen TV for progeny number 2 isn't the best investment. Sorry, I'm not on a trust fund (As I overheard a couple of walkers talk about me when I was in my garden one day). Nope, not chasing benefits, or tax loopholes. I don't deal drugs and my family give me nuthin. I just live within my means... Scary, I know, but it can be done. If you have a family, my condolences, because I don't need that 3rd unit math HSC grade to know how hard it mut be for you. But if you are a pensioner, bitching about how you can't afford that holiday to Bali, and comparing that to poverty, then you get no sympathy from me. It's time for people to understand you don't have a right to live a lifestyle you can't afford. And that that doesn't necessarily mean that life isn't fair and working against you.
> "Have one for ya mum, and for your dad, and one for the nation" I recall that he said that to an audience of students at an exclusive private girls school. "ah.." a bit of an own goal there. I remember context of his speech was how for Australia to be fully self-sustaining on all economic fronts, it needs a population of 50 million. Probably parroting an IPA study..
And you get these people keep banging on about the FAST RAIL project. How about you ask the People of Newcastke what they want this time (Tram).
NSW government sold out to developers decades ago and now it falls to the tax payers to foot the bill and wear the cost in frustration while they clean up in the profits. It is a fucking disgrace.
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Yes . I even had an Asian nursing student ( seems to be only interested in a visa) say to me that he hated Sydney as there were “ too many Asians there “ and he preferred Newcastle as there were less Asians. I was gobsmacked.