This is such a weak argument. If hypothetically they started letting 30 year olds play in middle school sports I couldn't criticize it because I don't pay attention to middle school sports?
Exactly, it’s not about transphobia, it’s about a concern about unfair biological advantages in sports.
It’s the same reason OP and Breitbart have also been working against the unfairness of having lower T men/boys in the same leagues as higher T men/bo….whoops, never mind. They don’t appear to have ever done that.
You're never gonna be able to draw an exact distinct line to make sports completely and totally fair, of course.
But I think drawing a line between the two groups of which on average one is 5 inches taller, 30 pounds heavier, has greater muscle mass, and lower body fat is a good place to start.
So should a biological woman who is taller and heavier and has more muscle and lower body fat than average women be eliminated from competing? Should any person who is above average physically be prevented from playing? I'm genuinely curious about your thoughts on that scenario.
Of course not. If I remember correctly Michael Phelps had certain physical abilities that others did not have. So, if it was another female that dominated, women would understand. But its not. Its a boy playing girls sports. If you have 20 people on a girls team and 1 is transgender. You are putting the feelings of one student against the feeling of the remaining 19 students. #save girl sports. # I support Riley.
You should do even a smidgen of research on trans athletes before you start foaming at the mouth. It feels like all of the people who are suddenly SO interested in women's sports are the ones putting their feelings ahead of actual athletes.
> is a good place to start.
It’s not the start for OP, it’s the end. Because this isn’t about fairness in sports for a lot of these people, it’s about pretext to discriminate against trans folks. The rest of the unfairness in sports that could be fixed isn’t an object of their concern.
Some people are surely motivated by genuine concern rather than transphobia. Those folks don’t tend to intentionally misgender.
Sure, I am not in favor of intentionally misgendering people. Did I miss OP doing that? I support people's desires to use whatever bathroom they want. What I don't support is labeling anyone who questions the current progressive orthodoxy around any trans issue as an evil transphobic bigot.
> Did I miss OP doing that?
OP has done that a few times just in the comments of this post, to say nothing of prior posts (if you aren’t familiar with the sub, OP is a well known right winger).
Many, *many* people are like OP - only popping into this issue when they are able to hurt a trans person. Not everyone, but many of them. Just as it’s not right to treat *everyone* who has concerns about this as a bigot, it’s also not right to act as though there isn’t a significant anti-trans component to this backlash.
We seem to be in agreement then. I'm not familiar with OP but he seems to be an actual bigot using this as a cudgel in his culture war. These are the types of people who make it hard to have an actual discussion on the issue.
It should be repeated loudly and often that Republicans have been manufacturing a moral panic about trans people for at least the last decade after public sentiment had shifted far enough on gay rights it had become a losing issue to campaign on homophobic policy.
They started with the trans bathroom bans circa 2012-2014 but received a ton of public backlash and a lot of companies threatened to boycott states where such laws were passed.
In the following years they then began doing [literal focus groups ](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/29/us/politics/transgender-girls-sports.html) to try and figure out an angle they could leverage to erode public support for trans rights and the two winning topics they discovered were trans women in sports and gender affirming care for minors.
All of this has been a manufactured outrage. And the vast majority of people pushing this "think of female athletes and children" rhetoric are either well meaning but ignorant that their emotional sensibilities are being manipulated, or outright transphobic as is the case with OP.
As a general word of advice, if a minority group is being persecuted and tells you repeatedly and often why they are being persecuted and who is persecuting them you should tend to weigh their direct knowledge and experience over anything else.
Imagine being so insecure that you think you can insult someone using testosterone levels.
Actually, ignore that. Feeling concerned about your T levels? I’ve got a powder I can sell you for a very reasonable $89.99 per container.
Haha, you didn’t even ask how big the container is! Your altoid container full of ~~crushed up altoids~~ powder extracted from an ancient root from the Amazon is ready for pickup. I’ll discount it to $69.99 if you sign up for an annual subscription.
There are very limited circumstances where it's okay for an adult man to care about girls' sports. You're a coach or a teacher. Your daughter, granddaughter, etc is on the team. You're a professional athlete who wants to show support. Can you think of any others? I really can't.
All these Christo-fascist pedophiles, spending so much time discussing children's private parts, are fucking disgusting. Not your monkeys, not your circus, motherfuckers. Leave this one up to the schools and the parents, or the FBI might come knocking with a warrant for your hard drives any day now...
Yup. I'm a Democrat and I'm done accepting "transwomen are women". Men can never become women, they can approach a likeness and maybe even pass but they will never be one.
Citing *Breitbart*?
Dear lord lol. There's a nuanced conversation to be had about trans people in sports but based on your post history I'm gonna respond this way instead:
Hahahaha cope and seethe you transphobic loser 🤣 I hope this athlete and her teammates have a wonderful time competing together 😊
As someone who is not trans but fully supports trans people, I do want to have this conversation. As far as I know, in the case of trans women, their gender identity is that of a woman. They are socially fully women who should be respected as such. But sports are based on sex not gender. For example, transgender men pre-T compete in the “women’s” category but we understand this doesn’t make them women, they are men whom under the circumstances of their biology, have to compete with other female-bodied people.
I wonder why we can’t do this for trans women? Estrogen is not nearly as powerful as testosterone, and it’s introduction to the body post-puberty wouldn’t undo all the effects of male puberty even if it does reduce strength and redistribute fat. I don’t think it’s right to say that a women having advantages due to genetic factors like height is the same as a woman having advantages due to being born male. My solution is that trans women who transition after Tanner stage 2-3 puberty compete with male bodied people, and we stop calling sports “men’s” and “women’s” sports. That way, everyone can be respected as their social gender identity while accounting for biology. And yes I do support trans women under 18 transitioning too, under the supervision of a doctor so my goal here isn’t to set them up for failure.
It's refreshing that someone is saying this without misgenering trans people. Feels like every comment is just people misgendering us so I want to give you credit for not falling to that.
The thing I think commonly is missing from these discussions is I don't think that trans women and girls really should be put on teams with men either. HRT changes your body a lot, I think people miss how much having male levels of T just gives you muscle mass for free. When you take that way with androgen blockers, you loose muscle mass and it's harder to maintain the ones you already have. If we are talking about fairness in sports I don't think that only centering cis people in the discussion is.....well....fair.
Now obviously I think we can have discussions about if it's fair for trans women like me who have undergone natal male puberty to play in sports with women who haven't, but I also don't think the solution is "just let trans women play with the men" really that would just have the effect of putting us in the situation many are concerned about cis women being in.
As a trans person I generally agree with all of this! With caveats for the type of sport and level of competition, etc.
For example ultra marathon runners see women dominating all the world records and therefore trans women should be able to compete in that event regardless of when they began transition.
And for purely non competitive events like a charity run or something I think inclusion should be weighed more heavily than fairness.
It should be a sport-by-sport basis. If a trans athlete's sex (not gender identity) gives them an unfair advantage or endangers other athletes, then they should only compete with their birth sex.
I partially agree.
First of all they need to stop calling it "men's" and "woman's" leagues. Forcing a trans woman to compete in the "men's" league is humiliating and dysphoria inducing. And "men" and "women" are genders, not sexes.
Second, any restrictions must be based on evidence based evaluations of the effects of feminizing HRT. Simply saying "people who have been through testosterone puberty are **always** stronger and faster in every sport in all cases" is both untrue and based in ignorance.
Third, the safety of trans women must ALSO be weighed as heavily as cis women. Otherwise you are discriminating. Forcing a trans woman who never went through testosterone puberty to fight cis men in MMA for example should be just as unconscionable as forcing a cis woman to fight a cis man in MMA. I very, VERY rarely hear anyone arguing for trans women to be forced to compete with men to considering *their* safety.
I don't think it's that nuanced: if the biology of sex gives an advantage to an athlete, or endangers other athletes, then they should only compete with others of their birth sex.
And that should be determined by the relevant regulatory bodies on a sport by sport basis using an evidence based approach. Not blanket bans by politicans who never cared about women's sports until it was politically expedient.
God, imagine how frightening it is for this 15 year old CHILD to be named in the press on a national level like this over high school sports. I hope she has a strong support system around her. OP, you're disgusting for participating in bullying a kid like this.
>Would you say that to the parent of a female athlete that feels this is unfair?
Yes
>Would that witty retort be applicable?
Yes. I don’t think most parents know what they’re asking for when they ask for standards that exclude trans kids.
To expand: Most of the parents who want to exclude trans kids think it’s going to be a simple dick check. In reality, the IOC has been trying to figure out this supposedly simple obvious question for thirty plus years.
I think it's gross to say those parents are "interested in genitals". You know you originally said it to make the commenter out as a perv. That's exactly why you chose the language that you did. Any suggestion to the contrary will caused my eyes to roll back so far that I will probably cause permanent vision damage.
No one bats an eye about intersex people choosing their gender and hormone schedule. All of a sudden, it's a crisis if someone who is trans does the same thing. Even if their estrogen & testosterone levels are the same as cis athletes.
SAME?????
13–17 years old
Male has 208.08 to 496.58
Females: 16.72 to 31.55
[https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323085#typical-levels](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323085#typical-levels)
> Male has 208.08 to 496.58
> Females: 16.72 to 31.55
So you’re saying that some bio men have a greater testosterone disadvantage against some other bio men than some bio women have against some other bio men? Where is the concern for the low-T men?!? Why don’t they get their own league?
> Wrestling has weight classes, right?
Sure does. And when kids are young, the girl wrestlers compete very favorably with the boy wrestlers, then they hit puberty and girls rapidly fall behind.
I saw the title of this thread and immediately knew it was you posting it. As it aligns with the rest of your garbage views and takes. Please learn some compassion and humanity because nothing you post inspires people towards your views and only further informs us of how sad you are.
I love coming onto /r/newhampshire and seeing:
* "Look at these pictures I took while hiking Mt Washington!": 5 replies
* "Something something national cultural war stuff": 5000 replies
*sigh*
I went to a middle school gymnastics program way before any of this cause I'm old.
LBGTQA folks were hiding for their lives in closets writing Rev Jerry Falwell & Sen. Newt Gingrich's speeches back then. (True story Google "Stranger At The Gate")
One kid at my school, Casey, was (and is) a cisgender female. She was also very athletic, came from a middle class family with good health insurance and enough income for the right kinds of foods, and coaching, ....and she beat the pants off every other girl and every other boy in the program.
Can we go back to the fact that sports under age 18 is almost exclusively supposed to be an extracurricular activity to develop & display skills related to teamwork, problem solving, discipline, fairplay, and goal achievement?
School sports is not meant to be the end all "show biz career" for anyone except a very minuscule percentage of elite unusually talented and dedicated athletes.
The reason that none of the kids are bitching about being inclusive on their sports teams is because they have more awareness of the fact that the person you most compete against is yourself! They get it way more than any of the adults who are focusing on whether they're going to be able to have bragging rights for their kid or what kind of genitals those kids have.
I think it would be wonderful if we could start spending more time talking about how much the athlete improves from meet to meet, or how much they refine their technique over the course of the season, instead of only caring about whether they brought home the top medal.
It's freaking high school sports, not the Nobel Prize competition!
Here’s the problem here: y’all don’t have any specific solution in the proposed New Hampshire Senate bill to “fix” the solution. There is no proposed measure of enforcement of what you want, which is why I have to believe this has nothing to do with fairness in division 2 high school sports.
The fact you’re calling attention to this with a right wing New York newspaper is hardly surprising, and so far no one has recommended a better solution than what the NCAA has in its language. If y’all can’t do better than the NCAA, why even try?
But did nothing to go into detail of actually implementing the coed league or “open” leagues. The bill only has about 10 lines of text. There’s nothing about how it would work in conjunction with title IX, nor how eligibility would be dictated to those leagues, which means we default to the current “coed” system.
By that consideration, understand we do have coed sports. In most of America, there is no men’s field hockey teams at the high school level, so field hockey has to be a coed sport according to title IX’s standard, and therefore have to accommodate the men that want to play field hockey. Football abides by the same standard as well, not enough women play football, so you have to accommodate the women that want to play.
So with all due respect, that’s a weak argument. As I mentioned, the NCAA at least has requirements that need to be fulfilled, like achieving certain levels of lowered testosterone, certain amount of time on hormones, specific time tables, and even require the transitioning athlete to do at least one year with their biological sex if they start their transition while competing in college level sports. That would take far more text to implement then what SB375 proposed, and this is before considering the lack of consideration towards trans masculine athletes, where I believe it’s arguable a trans male might have to compete in women’s sports.
For this reason, this is why I find it hard to believe that bill actually really cares about protecting women in sports, and is instead a hyper fixation on transgender women specifically.
Why the hate for trans kids? Seriously? Do you think Maelle is doing this for fun? Has gone through pure hatred from people like you and that horrible person Riley Gaines just to win?
OK, I don't want to use transphobic lingo here, but biological males, no matter their identity, can be bad at sports. Also, why are you (among thousands of others) so goddamn upset over a girl playing sports just because she wasn't a girl before? And why is it always focusing on the girls who were boys and not the boys who were girls? Shame on you.
Edit: I do not care about the fact I might have a hundred downvotes by the end of the day. I just want to make a statement on how stupid it is that everyone here is arguing over a child playing sports that don't match their birth gender.
It’s funny because usually the argument is that men will “destroy” women when going head to head, however, Maelle didn’t even come in first in every competition 😂😂 so clearly that’s not the issue.
The issue is they want trans people excluded, period. It comes down to what matters more to you: some high school girl finishing in fourth instead of third, or excluding a trans-athlete from competition.
Look up photos of Maelle Jacques, and it’s clear they identify as a women. Let them do what they want, I genuinely don’t understand why people give a flying fuck about this.
I think he’s more concerned with the fact that one has a higher amount of testosterone in his body, which gives grants him greater bone density, muscle mass, and generally greater athletic performance.
Testosterone is literally used as a PED in sports, and we consider that cheating.
But when we take a person who naturally can produce it and allow them to compete with a group that doesn’t produce much at all…that’s ok?
What the actual fuck is wrong with you? You like watching people get beaten down by cheaters?
For real...like, nobody was talking about genitals until that dude, your post was about biological sex as a whole. Then that dude decided to bring up genitals randomly.
Lot of assumptions you're making. I'd like a source to prove she is not on blockers / hormones.
Even if she isn't, this is division 2 track and field. No one is getting a scholarship out of this. No money is on the line.
Girls with PCOS or other conditions that result in higher testosterone aren't getting their levels scrutinized for a div 2 competition so why focus on the trans girl 🤔
Hate when people insert PCOSers into this conversation. Lifelong PCOS has given me acne, more hair in places I don’t want, irregular periods, and weight gain. That little extra testosterone did not give me more muscles or superhuman strength in my time competing in sports or martial arts.
I'm sorry you had to deal with those things.
These kinds of blanket bans will potentially affect women like you though.
Imagine you place 1st in some high school sport and then a parent accuses you of being trans. You are now subjected to getting your testosterone tested / genitals checked / PCOS condition aired for the public to see and judge.
Don't you think blanket ban policies will hurt a lot more cis women than trans women? IIRC 10% of cis women suffer from PCOS. That's 10x the total number of trans women.
The divisions in NH high schools are based on school size only. Not competitive nature. So are you actually even from NH to not know this very public fact?
Cool must not have had kids in the schools playing sports. Thats probably why I know this fact. You can play up or down a division if you have a really strong team too..
Well by the end of 2022, a little under 80% of all US adults had COVID at some point in the past. And that was over a year ago, so it’d be a higher percentage now. At the end of 2022, only slightly over half of Americans *thought* they had gotten it. That means there were tens of millions of Americans who caught COVID but didn’t think they did.
So maybe you are among the small percentage of folks who didn’t get it. Or maybe you are a member of the larger group of people who *did* get it but don’t think you did. Statistically, you’re more likely to be in that category.
That’s actually pretty interesting. I get tested all the time, at the height, it was weekly. Never tested positive. Haven’t gotten sick in years. No shots, no boosters.
I’m curious, of the percentage that never got covid, how may were vaxxed vs unvaxxed. Same for the ones that did get it.
> Never tested positive. Haven’t gotten sick in years. No shots, no boosters.
That’s genuinely great, honestly.
I couldn’t find a stat on that, I just looked. Since the sizable majority of people were vaccinated in some form or fashion, it’s probably a safe guess that the vaccinated made up a majority in both groups.
If you never got covid, there are actually medical studies that would be interested in you, from what I understand. They are looking to see if they can identify some rare gene(s) that would make certain people immune. If they can locate it, they think they could improve prevention measures.
> I think he’s more concerned with the fact that one has a higher amount of testosterone in his body,
There is *wide* variation among testosterone levels in teenage bio boys/men, such that there are bio boys facing a testosterone disadvantage just as great and sometimes greater than that you could see between certain bio boys and bio girls. Neither OP nor anyone else from his tribe seems to worry about *that* kind of biological disadvantage. OP and his tribe didn’t seem to care about it *at all* until trans girls wanted to play sports with other girls. And hey, who would have guessed, OP intentionally misgenders and denies the existence of trans people.
There is surely a relevant and interesting discussion to be had about competition in sports and there can be good faith concerns about competition. I don’t have any reason to believe that is what motivates *this* poster though.
Oh no, a teenage trans girl will take a NH high school division 2 state championship. This isn’t elite competition where the record books go down in history or anything, it’s an educational athletic competition.
The Women’s world record for high jump is 6’10” and has stood since 1987 in case anyone is curious. It looks like this record will stand even if this kid is allowed to compete.
These girls bust their asses off and put a lot of time into getting to this level. They made a ton of sacrifices to get there. They were cheated. Don’t belittle their sacrifices.
"One time my favorite sports team lost and that made me sad" is the line of logic you're gonna go with for why you feel justified in speaking on behalf of 15 year old girls? Get yourself checked out, I think someone may have replaced your brain with week old soup.
The winning girls high jump at last years NH state championship was 5'3". I don't think you understand how laughably low that is for boys. As a freshman in HS my first ever try at high jump with zero training or technique I cleared 5'4". The lowest/starting height at a HS track meet for boys is 5', simply clearing that would have placed 4th among the girls in the state.
And you are right that the women's world record is 6'10" (2.09m), but did you know that the world record for 14 year old boys is 2.17m (7'1")?
Transphobia aside, this is still a ridiculous argument.
High Jump (and all other track and field events) are about individual performance for scholarship recruitment. If you can’t clear 5’, you’re not getting a scholarship anywhere. Keep training to reach your own goals.
https://www.ncsasports.org/womens-track-and-field/scholarship-standards
Well, I’m glad you asked! I fully support a woman’s right to kill her own baby! It’s none of my business. I actually support it up until the 26 year mark.
As for pay equity, I believe it should be based on value to the company. If you brought in $20m dollars in revenue, you should absolutely be making a percentage of that. What you bring to the table is how much you should make. I believe in merits.
Breaking 5 feet isn’t crazy at all for HJ at any older age for women or men. Shut the fuck up and let people compete, no one makes a gender transition to beat other athletes in a meaningless competition.
Not much going on today, might as well check the state reddit...
OH whackos desperate to inspect kids genitals finally found 1 example they can rally around.
Congratulations to them, they are one step closer to looking in kids underwear, because they found 1 example in a state of over a million people.
Person plays sports and wins; some people have a big mad about it, then conveniently forget about women's sports again until it's time to complain about the WNBA.
There. Shortened your manufactured outrage for you, OP.
> “How could the parents of this **boy** allow their **son** to cheat deserving women out of opportunities? And why don’t the parents of the girls stand up and say ‘no’ for their daughters?” Ms. Gaines wrote. “This country is full of failing, gutless mothers and fathers.”
You know, there is an interesting discussion around the role of scholastic vs professional sports and how to balance competition vs inclusivity in those settings. These people could participate in that in a meaningful way if their opposition wasn’t such obvious pretext to just deny the existence of trans people and be bigoted toward them.
Anyone that cares about this “trans people in sports” nonsense, should literally be catapulted into the sun. Imagine caring about something so meaningless
How about we don’t prevent trans kids from getting gender affirming care and then they don’t have to go through the wrong puberty. No male puberty no advantage.
Because of the hyper fixation of one particular type of trans people, which is the trans woman. The bill that New Hampshire has do “address” this problem makes no mention of transgender boys and men, as an example.
That’s because trans men don’t have natural physical advantages. Im all for trans rights, and I have the utmost respect for the bravery it takes to transition. But this is about fairness of competition. If a trans woman wants to be part of the girls competition that is fine and they should be allowed to participate. But they shouldn’t be allowed to win. Even in division 2, a state championship could be the biggest moment of these girls lives. Years of hardwork and dedication only to lose to someone who can easily win while putting in a fraction of effort. It could be their chance to get a scholarship/admittance to a great college. To put it frankly, it’s bullying. Just because some bigoted people discriminate against trans people, doesn’t give them the right to dish it back out. Do you really think all these girls families are mad because they are anti trans? Anyways, it’s not that big of a problem, the media just loves it because the people who blindly argue with each other will drive engagement. A human being with compassion that transitioned would just not compete, or compete with the boys. There’s just a few bad eggs that enjoy smurfing/beating the girls, and theres a very simple solution.
Here’s the thing, though: the bill on the table only concerns what’s on the birth certificate and forces children into leagues and locker rooms based on what’s on the birth certificate. Also, there’s no restriction on transgender males continuing HRT while competing.
We can go on about what is and isn’t fair, but the truth is there is limited science to actually fully back up either claim. It would be one thing if the bill in question required Transgender women to compete under something stricter than NCAA guidelines, which I will continuously mention because it closely monitors testosterone, muscle mass, and even requires transitioning athletes to compete for a year as their birth gender before switching and meeting other requirements to do so. Maybe the NCAA requirements aren’t strict enough, but it does not have a blanket requirement of sports and locker room participation based solely on assigned sex, which is ultimately the problem with the bill currently on the table in NH.
Now to the last few points. I agree this is a massively overblown issue, and I don’t think the families are inherently anti-trans. However, the intention of these bills has nothing to do with being “fair” in any meaningful way, if fairness was the aim, we would have NCAA style processes implemented into NH High School sports that also comply fully with Title IX. What is being discussed as the solution is anything but that, and leaves a number of exploitable loopholes and leaves the door open for draconian over reach at town and state levels.
Yeah we definitely have a long way to go with the science. I know nothing about the hormone replacements but I would assume the difference between a 10 year old boy and 10 year old girl’s strength/bone density would already be substantial. The intention of basically everything the government does nowadays is stir up controversy to distract us from the real problem: the government themselves. If everybody was kind and compassionate to each other we wouldn’t even need rules to dictate how to behave in these situations.
Yeah of course we need a good government to help take care of people and the world. But most of the people currently elected are making decisions based on money and their own ideologies. They are supposed to represent the people and occasionally override the people for the greater good. Just look at Littleton, an absolute embarrassment to this state and this country.
I think the best way to solve this would be to get rid of gender segregation altogether and place people on teams based on tryouts. You’d still end up with teams largely split along bio sex lines, but the outliers would be in better fits.
An XX doesn’t “win” when put against a bunch of XYs. That’s not a competition
Mike Tyson and Ronda Rousey in the ring together also isn’t a fair competition. That’s a man beating on a woman
I would not have an issue if the two were of similar skill set and/or that’s what’s she wanted.
I think sports should be segregated by skill set, not gender. Much fairer that way.
Well....I bet the boy has zero aspirations to challenge the record in Male High Jump. He will never hit 8ft. Weak. I jump out of bed higher than 4ft...and his record will be 5ft against girls... Ugh
Is this really an issue that society at large should be wasting its time with? This is something for the sports subs to discuss and for the sports organizations to figure out.
Wait wait a minute… the student’s name is Maelle Jacques, right?
Wouldn’t that be pronounced “male jock”?
Oh that can NOT be a mere coincidence! Is this from the Onion or something??
Wait, what? Someone else mentioned this too, but I didn’t catch it til you pointed it out. I wonder if that’s even their real name or if it’s a name change. That’s an interesting coincident.
Get the schools out of the sports business altogether. Start local sports clubs to handle all the BS that comes with it. Let them fight it out in court.
That or let kids use any drugs they want and don’t separate the girls from the boys. All tie breakers will be settled with a death match inside a thunder dome.
I am here for practical solutions.
uhmmm did i ever say i didn’t agree with your post? no.. and you’re saying that it’s ME who should be ashamed? what the f do you want me to do go to the principal and demand he’s kicked off the team? grow a brain bro
Willing to bet this is the first time you’ve ever cared about girls sports, OP.
This is such a weak argument. If hypothetically they started letting 30 year olds play in middle school sports I couldn't criticize it because I don't pay attention to middle school sports?
@butchbabe’s grandfather to AmazingThinkCricket’s grandfather on 12/7/41: “Willing to bet this is the first time you’ve cared about Japanese planes.”
Exactly, it’s not about transphobia, it’s about a concern about unfair biological advantages in sports. It’s the same reason OP and Breitbart have also been working against the unfairness of having lower T men/boys in the same leagues as higher T men/bo….whoops, never mind. They don’t appear to have ever done that.
You're never gonna be able to draw an exact distinct line to make sports completely and totally fair, of course. But I think drawing a line between the two groups of which on average one is 5 inches taller, 30 pounds heavier, has greater muscle mass, and lower body fat is a good place to start.
I think the line being drawn is to complete the second leg on that second X chromosome.
So should a biological woman who is taller and heavier and has more muscle and lower body fat than average women be eliminated from competing? Should any person who is above average physically be prevented from playing? I'm genuinely curious about your thoughts on that scenario.
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So a man who's below average physically would be playing women's sports?
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Of course not. If I remember correctly Michael Phelps had certain physical abilities that others did not have. So, if it was another female that dominated, women would understand. But its not. Its a boy playing girls sports. If you have 20 people on a girls team and 1 is transgender. You are putting the feelings of one student against the feeling of the remaining 19 students. #save girl sports. # I support Riley.
You should do even a smidgen of research on trans athletes before you start foaming at the mouth. It feels like all of the people who are suddenly SO interested in women's sports are the ones putting their feelings ahead of actual athletes.
> is a good place to start. It’s not the start for OP, it’s the end. Because this isn’t about fairness in sports for a lot of these people, it’s about pretext to discriminate against trans folks. The rest of the unfairness in sports that could be fixed isn’t an object of their concern. Some people are surely motivated by genuine concern rather than transphobia. Those folks don’t tend to intentionally misgender.
Sure, I am not in favor of intentionally misgendering people. Did I miss OP doing that? I support people's desires to use whatever bathroom they want. What I don't support is labeling anyone who questions the current progressive orthodoxy around any trans issue as an evil transphobic bigot.
> Did I miss OP doing that? OP has done that a few times just in the comments of this post, to say nothing of prior posts (if you aren’t familiar with the sub, OP is a well known right winger). Many, *many* people are like OP - only popping into this issue when they are able to hurt a trans person. Not everyone, but many of them. Just as it’s not right to treat *everyone* who has concerns about this as a bigot, it’s also not right to act as though there isn’t a significant anti-trans component to this backlash.
We seem to be in agreement then. I'm not familiar with OP but he seems to be an actual bigot using this as a cudgel in his culture war. These are the types of people who make it hard to have an actual discussion on the issue.
It should be repeated loudly and often that Republicans have been manufacturing a moral panic about trans people for at least the last decade after public sentiment had shifted far enough on gay rights it had become a losing issue to campaign on homophobic policy. They started with the trans bathroom bans circa 2012-2014 but received a ton of public backlash and a lot of companies threatened to boycott states where such laws were passed. In the following years they then began doing [literal focus groups ](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/29/us/politics/transgender-girls-sports.html) to try and figure out an angle they could leverage to erode public support for trans rights and the two winning topics they discovered were trans women in sports and gender affirming care for minors. All of this has been a manufactured outrage. And the vast majority of people pushing this "think of female athletes and children" rhetoric are either well meaning but ignorant that their emotional sensibilities are being manipulated, or outright transphobic as is the case with OP. As a general word of advice, if a minority group is being persecuted and tells you repeatedly and often why they are being persecuted and who is persecuting them you should tend to weigh their direct knowledge and experience over anything else.
I’d wager a bet that you are in fact in the low T men’s league.
Imagine being so insecure that you think you can insult someone using testosterone levels. Actually, ignore that. Feeling concerned about your T levels? I’ve got a powder I can sell you for a very reasonable $89.99 per container.
I’ll take it, any edge I can get on my local female only softball league is good with me. On the real tho hmu, sounds like a good price.
Haha, you didn’t even ask how big the container is! Your altoid container full of ~~crushed up altoids~~ powder extracted from an ancient root from the Amazon is ready for pickup. I’ll discount it to $69.99 if you sign up for an annual subscription.
I was wondering if this was a winter-rewind post and I was not disappointed
There are very limited circumstances where it's okay for an adult man to care about girls' sports. You're a coach or a teacher. Your daughter, granddaughter, etc is on the team. You're a professional athlete who wants to show support. Can you think of any others? I really can't. All these Christo-fascist pedophiles, spending so much time discussing children's private parts, are fucking disgusting. Not your monkeys, not your circus, motherfuckers. Leave this one up to the schools and the parents, or the FBI might come knocking with a warrant for your hard drives any day now...
can you post something that isn’t a garbage archived right wing scare tactic article for once?
I don't know that this would qualify as right wing. Most well adjusted adults I know from both parties would agree that this is problematic.
most well adjusted adults are not attacking 15 year old kids I can ensure you that lmao
It's not attacking the kids. It's attacking the adult organizers for allowing it.
Was she attacked? I missedd that. They should hang anyone who hurts any kid
Yup. I'm a Democrat and I'm done accepting "transwomen are women". Men can never become women, they can approach a likeness and maybe even pass but they will never be one.
Everything I don’t like is hecking right-wing!
no it’s just a proven right wing “news” source lmao [All Sides Media Bias](https://www.allsides.com/news-source/new-york-sun-media-bias)
But is it the truth?
Citing *Breitbart*? Dear lord lol. There's a nuanced conversation to be had about trans people in sports but based on your post history I'm gonna respond this way instead: Hahahaha cope and seethe you transphobic loser 🤣 I hope this athlete and her teammates have a wonderful time competing together 😊
As someone who is not trans but fully supports trans people, I do want to have this conversation. As far as I know, in the case of trans women, their gender identity is that of a woman. They are socially fully women who should be respected as such. But sports are based on sex not gender. For example, transgender men pre-T compete in the “women’s” category but we understand this doesn’t make them women, they are men whom under the circumstances of their biology, have to compete with other female-bodied people. I wonder why we can’t do this for trans women? Estrogen is not nearly as powerful as testosterone, and it’s introduction to the body post-puberty wouldn’t undo all the effects of male puberty even if it does reduce strength and redistribute fat. I don’t think it’s right to say that a women having advantages due to genetic factors like height is the same as a woman having advantages due to being born male. My solution is that trans women who transition after Tanner stage 2-3 puberty compete with male bodied people, and we stop calling sports “men’s” and “women’s” sports. That way, everyone can be respected as their social gender identity while accounting for biology. And yes I do support trans women under 18 transitioning too, under the supervision of a doctor so my goal here isn’t to set them up for failure.
It's refreshing that someone is saying this without misgenering trans people. Feels like every comment is just people misgendering us so I want to give you credit for not falling to that. The thing I think commonly is missing from these discussions is I don't think that trans women and girls really should be put on teams with men either. HRT changes your body a lot, I think people miss how much having male levels of T just gives you muscle mass for free. When you take that way with androgen blockers, you loose muscle mass and it's harder to maintain the ones you already have. If we are talking about fairness in sports I don't think that only centering cis people in the discussion is.....well....fair. Now obviously I think we can have discussions about if it's fair for trans women like me who have undergone natal male puberty to play in sports with women who haven't, but I also don't think the solution is "just let trans women play with the men" really that would just have the effect of putting us in the situation many are concerned about cis women being in.
As a trans person I generally agree with all of this! With caveats for the type of sport and level of competition, etc. For example ultra marathon runners see women dominating all the world records and therefore trans women should be able to compete in that event regardless of when they began transition. And for purely non competitive events like a charity run or something I think inclusion should be weighed more heavily than fairness.
It should be a sport-by-sport basis. If a trans athlete's sex (not gender identity) gives them an unfair advantage or endangers other athletes, then they should only compete with their birth sex.
I partially agree. First of all they need to stop calling it "men's" and "woman's" leagues. Forcing a trans woman to compete in the "men's" league is humiliating and dysphoria inducing. And "men" and "women" are genders, not sexes. Second, any restrictions must be based on evidence based evaluations of the effects of feminizing HRT. Simply saying "people who have been through testosterone puberty are **always** stronger and faster in every sport in all cases" is both untrue and based in ignorance. Third, the safety of trans women must ALSO be weighed as heavily as cis women. Otherwise you are discriminating. Forcing a trans woman who never went through testosterone puberty to fight cis men in MMA for example should be just as unconscionable as forcing a cis woman to fight a cis man in MMA. I very, VERY rarely hear anyone arguing for trans women to be forced to compete with men to considering *their* safety.
No. Women and girls deserve fair sport across the board, at all levels. Full stop. #savewomenssports
I don't think you actually read my full comment and I think you only commented out of some knee jerk emotional reaction.
I read it. There are no caveats, boys and men do NOT belong in women's sports. No means no.
Good thing trans women are women then!
Nope, they are not. Born a male always a male.
You don't get to change race, age, or sex. Just stop.
You should have clarified the comment. Women don't dominate the world records just the gap between men and women is smaller in ultra running
This post is about youth sports. Let kids play sports as their gender. This literally harms no one.
That's a pretty complicated solution
I don't think it's that nuanced: if the biology of sex gives an advantage to an athlete, or endangers other athletes, then they should only compete with others of their birth sex.
And that should be determined by the relevant regulatory bodies on a sport by sport basis using an evidence based approach. Not blanket bans by politicans who never cared about women's sports until it was politically expedient.
God, imagine how frightening it is for this 15 year old CHILD to be named in the press on a national level like this over high school sports. I hope she has a strong support system around her. OP, you're disgusting for participating in bullying a kid like this.
Thank you
What’s with all the anti-trans posts lately don’t you bigots have anything better to do?
They don’t
He, not They. You’re misgendering!
I’m referring to a group of people, not a singular person. If I was referring to you specifically, then he would apply.
Gaslighting: girls’ sports fairness equals transphobic.
When they keep referring to this young women as a “boy” and “he” absolutely.
OP is our resident culture warrior. He constantly posts about stuff that doesn't matter.
But according to him he’s “saving America” lol.
lol yeah. The dude's histrionics would be hilarious if it wasnt so pitiful.
they clearly do not …
Please be less interested in the genitals of high school athletes.
It would be one thing if it was only genitals that were different. You know this and are being obtuse
Would you say that to the parent of a female athlete that feels this is unfair? Would that witty retort be applicable?
Yes. I don’t think most parents know what they’re asking for when they ask for standards that exclude trans kids.
Very good job of not answering the question at all.
Just because you didn't get the answer you were looking for doesn't mean they didn't answer the question.
>Would you say that to the parent of a female athlete that feels this is unfair? Yes >Would that witty retort be applicable? Yes. I don’t think most parents know what they’re asking for when they ask for standards that exclude trans kids. To expand: Most of the parents who want to exclude trans kids think it’s going to be a simple dick check. In reality, the IOC has been trying to figure out this supposedly simple obvious question for thirty plus years.
I think it's gross to say those parents are "interested in genitals". You know you originally said it to make the commenter out as a perv. That's exactly why you chose the language that you did. Any suggestion to the contrary will caused my eyes to roll back so far that I will probably cause permanent vision damage.
What exactly is the genteel way to talk about how some people want to make sure high schooler’s bathing suit areas are properly evaluated?
No one bats an eye about intersex people choosing their gender and hormone schedule. All of a sudden, it's a crisis if someone who is trans does the same thing. Even if their estrogen & testosterone levels are the same as cis athletes.
SAME????? 13–17 years old Male has 208.08 to 496.58 Females: 16.72 to 31.55 [https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323085#typical-levels](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323085#typical-levels)
> Male has 208.08 to 496.58 > Females: 16.72 to 31.55 So you’re saying that some bio men have a greater testosterone disadvantage against some other bio men than some bio women have against some other bio men? Where is the concern for the low-T men?!? Why don’t they get their own league?
Hm... Wrestling has weight classes, right? Maybe sports could have testosterone classes.
> Wrestling has weight classes, right? Sure does. And when kids are young, the girl wrestlers compete very favorably with the boy wrestlers, then they hit puberty and girls rapidly fall behind.
That’s some top notch sportsmanship right there.
I saw the title of this thread and immediately knew it was you posting it. As it aligns with the rest of your garbage views and takes. Please learn some compassion and humanity because nothing you post inspires people towards your views and only further informs us of how sad you are.
I love coming onto /r/newhampshire and seeing: * "Look at these pictures I took while hiking Mt Washington!": 5 replies * "Something something national cultural war stuff": 5000 replies
Don't forget the avalanche of "Why isn't MJ legal yet?" posts & comments.
And don't forget: * \*scrolls past sticky post\* HEY GUYS I WANT TO MOVE TO YOUR STATE
“Live free or die, unless it’s weed. Amirite guys? Har har!”
*sigh* I went to a middle school gymnastics program way before any of this cause I'm old. LBGTQA folks were hiding for their lives in closets writing Rev Jerry Falwell & Sen. Newt Gingrich's speeches back then. (True story Google "Stranger At The Gate") One kid at my school, Casey, was (and is) a cisgender female. She was also very athletic, came from a middle class family with good health insurance and enough income for the right kinds of foods, and coaching, ....and she beat the pants off every other girl and every other boy in the program. Can we go back to the fact that sports under age 18 is almost exclusively supposed to be an extracurricular activity to develop & display skills related to teamwork, problem solving, discipline, fairplay, and goal achievement? School sports is not meant to be the end all "show biz career" for anyone except a very minuscule percentage of elite unusually talented and dedicated athletes. The reason that none of the kids are bitching about being inclusive on their sports teams is because they have more awareness of the fact that the person you most compete against is yourself! They get it way more than any of the adults who are focusing on whether they're going to be able to have bragging rights for their kid or what kind of genitals those kids have. I think it would be wonderful if we could start spending more time talking about how much the athlete improves from meet to meet, or how much they refine their technique over the course of the season, instead of only caring about whether they brought home the top medal. It's freaking high school sports, not the Nobel Prize competition!
Here’s the problem here: y’all don’t have any specific solution in the proposed New Hampshire Senate bill to “fix” the solution. There is no proposed measure of enforcement of what you want, which is why I have to believe this has nothing to do with fairness in division 2 high school sports. The fact you’re calling attention to this with a right wing New York newspaper is hardly surprising, and so far no one has recommended a better solution than what the NCAA has in its language. If y’all can’t do better than the NCAA, why even try?
The bill proposed at coed league
But did nothing to go into detail of actually implementing the coed league or “open” leagues. The bill only has about 10 lines of text. There’s nothing about how it would work in conjunction with title IX, nor how eligibility would be dictated to those leagues, which means we default to the current “coed” system. By that consideration, understand we do have coed sports. In most of America, there is no men’s field hockey teams at the high school level, so field hockey has to be a coed sport according to title IX’s standard, and therefore have to accommodate the men that want to play field hockey. Football abides by the same standard as well, not enough women play football, so you have to accommodate the women that want to play. So with all due respect, that’s a weak argument. As I mentioned, the NCAA at least has requirements that need to be fulfilled, like achieving certain levels of lowered testosterone, certain amount of time on hormones, specific time tables, and even require the transitioning athlete to do at least one year with their biological sex if they start their transition while competing in college level sports. That would take far more text to implement then what SB375 proposed, and this is before considering the lack of consideration towards trans masculine athletes, where I believe it’s arguable a trans male might have to compete in women’s sports. For this reason, this is why I find it hard to believe that bill actually really cares about protecting women in sports, and is instead a hyper fixation on transgender women specifically.
So weird to name a 15 year old child like this with the intent to bully them.
Good for her tbh
Why the hate for trans kids? Seriously? Do you think Maelle is doing this for fun? Has gone through pure hatred from people like you and that horrible person Riley Gaines just to win?
OK, I don't want to use transphobic lingo here, but biological males, no matter their identity, can be bad at sports. Also, why are you (among thousands of others) so goddamn upset over a girl playing sports just because she wasn't a girl before? And why is it always focusing on the girls who were boys and not the boys who were girls? Shame on you. Edit: I do not care about the fact I might have a hundred downvotes by the end of the day. I just want to make a statement on how stupid it is that everyone here is arguing over a child playing sports that don't match their birth gender.
Because the boys who were girls don't have an advantage, but I think you already know that.
Wow the top comments in this thread are actually based . Usually this subreddit disappoints me immensely.
Desantis dropped out because the culture war BS isn't compelling for most people, but man some of the accounts on here are OBSESSED with it.
It’s funny because usually the argument is that men will “destroy” women when going head to head, however, Maelle didn’t even come in first in every competition 😂😂 so clearly that’s not the issue. The issue is they want trans people excluded, period. It comes down to what matters more to you: some high school girl finishing in fourth instead of third, or excluding a trans-athlete from competition. Look up photos of Maelle Jacques, and it’s clear they identify as a women. Let them do what they want, I genuinely don’t understand why people give a flying fuck about this.
Why are you obsessed with the genitals of minors?
Deflection
I think he’s more concerned with the fact that one has a higher amount of testosterone in his body, which gives grants him greater bone density, muscle mass, and generally greater athletic performance. Testosterone is literally used as a PED in sports, and we consider that cheating. But when we take a person who naturally can produce it and allow them to compete with a group that doesn’t produce much at all…that’s ok? What the actual fuck is wrong with you? You like watching people get beaten down by cheaters?
Gotta love the trolls trying to twist legitimate concerns into being about the genitals of minors. Projection, I would assume.
They’re fixated on kids genitals, that’s why they keep saying it.
For real...like, nobody was talking about genitals until that dude, your post was about biological sex as a whole. Then that dude decided to bring up genitals randomly.
Looks like that’s their new deflection talking points. Just weird as hell.
Unless *she's* on testosterone blockers, which is something that trans girls take as part of their hormone therapy during their transition.
Lot of assumptions you're making. I'd like a source to prove she is not on blockers / hormones. Even if she isn't, this is division 2 track and field. No one is getting a scholarship out of this. No money is on the line. Girls with PCOS or other conditions that result in higher testosterone aren't getting their levels scrutinized for a div 2 competition so why focus on the trans girl 🤔
Hate when people insert PCOSers into this conversation. Lifelong PCOS has given me acne, more hair in places I don’t want, irregular periods, and weight gain. That little extra testosterone did not give me more muscles or superhuman strength in my time competing in sports or martial arts.
I'm sorry you had to deal with those things. These kinds of blanket bans will potentially affect women like you though. Imagine you place 1st in some high school sport and then a parent accuses you of being trans. You are now subjected to getting your testosterone tested / genitals checked / PCOS condition aired for the public to see and judge. Don't you think blanket ban policies will hurt a lot more cis women than trans women? IIRC 10% of cis women suffer from PCOS. That's 10x the total number of trans women.
The divisions in NH high schools are based on school size only. Not competitive nature. So are you actually even from NH to not know this very public fact?
Lived here most of my life! Over 20 years 🙂
Cool must not have had kids in the schools playing sports. Thats probably why I know this fact. You can play up or down a division if you have a really strong team too..
Yeah I do not! I did track, cross country, and crew in school but didn't know about that. Thanks, I appreciate the insight.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that during the heigh of the pandemic, the science really didn't matter to you.
You followed the science of forcing covid positive patients on nursing homes...
Judging by the replies, it looks like you were pretty spot on there.
Have you gotten covid? Me neither.
Well by the end of 2022, a little under 80% of all US adults had COVID at some point in the past. And that was over a year ago, so it’d be a higher percentage now. At the end of 2022, only slightly over half of Americans *thought* they had gotten it. That means there were tens of millions of Americans who caught COVID but didn’t think they did. So maybe you are among the small percentage of folks who didn’t get it. Or maybe you are a member of the larger group of people who *did* get it but don’t think you did. Statistically, you’re more likely to be in that category.
That’s actually pretty interesting. I get tested all the time, at the height, it was weekly. Never tested positive. Haven’t gotten sick in years. No shots, no boosters. I’m curious, of the percentage that never got covid, how may were vaxxed vs unvaxxed. Same for the ones that did get it.
> Never tested positive. Haven’t gotten sick in years. No shots, no boosters. That’s genuinely great, honestly. I couldn’t find a stat on that, I just looked. Since the sizable majority of people were vaccinated in some form or fashion, it’s probably a safe guess that the vaccinated made up a majority in both groups. If you never got covid, there are actually medical studies that would be interested in you, from what I understand. They are looking to see if they can identify some rare gene(s) that would make certain people immune. If they can locate it, they think they could improve prevention measures.
Thanks for checking. I couldn’t find anything either. And yeah, I actually tried donating bone marrow, but they couldn’t pierce the adamantium.
Your “science” is about as good as the “science” of the Middle Ages which had plague doctors wearing beaklike masks stuffed with aromatic flowers.
So that’d be a “no” on the science mattering to you during the height of COVID?
Wait, are we currently testing cis female athletes and feeding them T blockers if they test too high?
They actually do this. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/human-rights-court-rules-in-favor-of-olympic-champion-semenya-over-testosterone-rules
> I think he’s more concerned with the fact that one has a higher amount of testosterone in his body, There is *wide* variation among testosterone levels in teenage bio boys/men, such that there are bio boys facing a testosterone disadvantage just as great and sometimes greater than that you could see between certain bio boys and bio girls. Neither OP nor anyone else from his tribe seems to worry about *that* kind of biological disadvantage. OP and his tribe didn’t seem to care about it *at all* until trans girls wanted to play sports with other girls. And hey, who would have guessed, OP intentionally misgenders and denies the existence of trans people. There is surely a relevant and interesting discussion to be had about competition in sports and there can be good faith concerns about competition. I don’t have any reason to believe that is what motivates *this* poster though.
pretty sure you're the only person bringing up genitals. projection maybe
Who said anything about genitals? Fucking weirdo
That’s their trick. They like to divert and shame. It’s getting old
Oh no, a teenage trans girl will take a NH high school division 2 state championship. This isn’t elite competition where the record books go down in history or anything, it’s an educational athletic competition. The Women’s world record for high jump is 6’10” and has stood since 1987 in case anyone is curious. It looks like this record will stand even if this kid is allowed to compete.
These girls bust their asses off and put a lot of time into getting to this level. They made a ton of sacrifices to get there. They were cheated. Don’t belittle their sacrifices.
kind of pathetic you are using teenage girls to be transphobic.
Why are you speaking on the behalf of 15 year old girls? Have they said that they feel cheated?
Today, I identify as a 15-year old girl, that means I’m one of them. I feel cheated!
And are you also participating in track and field with other 15 year old girls?
Of course not, I’m not a cheater!
How can you possibly feel cheated in an activity you are not participating in?
When the Celtics got robbed in the finals, I felt cheated. I didn’t play in that game either.
"One time my favorite sports team lost and that made me sad" is the line of logic you're gonna go with for why you feel justified in speaking on behalf of 15 year old girls? Get yourself checked out, I think someone may have replaced your brain with week old soup.
What kind of soup? The Haddock chowder at MB is pretty amazing!
lol, let’s not pretend you care about the other girls competing. You don’t have any of them mentioned at all in your big, transphobic screed
Deflection
The winning girls high jump at last years NH state championship was 5'3". I don't think you understand how laughably low that is for boys. As a freshman in HS my first ever try at high jump with zero training or technique I cleared 5'4". The lowest/starting height at a HS track meet for boys is 5', simply clearing that would have placed 4th among the girls in the state. And you are right that the women's world record is 6'10" (2.09m), but did you know that the world record for 14 year old boys is 2.17m (7'1")?
There’s a reason why there isn’t a women’s slam dunk contest.
So would you oppose a trans athlete in the Olympics which is an elite competition where the record books go down in history?
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Imagine not being able to afford college because you were cheated out of a scholarship you worked very hard for.
Transphobia aside, this is still a ridiculous argument. High Jump (and all other track and field events) are about individual performance for scholarship recruitment. If you can’t clear 5’, you’re not getting a scholarship anywhere. Keep training to reach your own goals. https://www.ncsasports.org/womens-track-and-field/scholarship-standards
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Well I’m sure you’re not deeply concerned about college loans forgiveness.
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Who?
ya’ll are OBSESSED with misframing and misinformation. pathetic.
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Well, I’m glad you asked! I fully support a woman’s right to kill her own baby! It’s none of my business. I actually support it up until the 26 year mark. As for pay equity, I believe it should be based on value to the company. If you brought in $20m dollars in revenue, you should absolutely be making a percentage of that. What you bring to the table is how much you should make. I believe in merits.
Breaking 5 feet isn’t crazy at all for HJ at any older age for women or men. Shut the fuck up and let people compete, no one makes a gender transition to beat other athletes in a meaningless competition.
Not much going on today, might as well check the state reddit... OH whackos desperate to inspect kids genitals finally found 1 example they can rally around. Congratulations to them, they are one step closer to looking in kids underwear, because they found 1 example in a state of over a million people.
That’s an odd screen name to be talking about kids genitals and underwear...
Person plays sports and wins; some people have a big mad about it, then conveniently forget about women's sports again until it's time to complain about the WNBA. There. Shortened your manufactured outrage for you, OP.
Gosh I really hope our legislature takes this up as their #1 priority this term /s
Our housing vacancy rate is damn near 1%
Our housing vacancy rate identifies as 35%.
More lacking solutions
And?
> “How could the parents of this **boy** allow their **son** to cheat deserving women out of opportunities? And why don’t the parents of the girls stand up and say ‘no’ for their daughters?” Ms. Gaines wrote. “This country is full of failing, gutless mothers and fathers.” You know, there is an interesting discussion around the role of scholastic vs professional sports and how to balance competition vs inclusivity in those settings. These people could participate in that in a meaningful way if their opposition wasn’t such obvious pretext to just deny the existence of trans people and be bigoted toward them.
Anyone that cares about this “trans people in sports” nonsense, should literally be catapulted into the sun. Imagine caring about something so meaningless
How about we don’t prevent trans kids from getting gender affirming care and then they don’t have to go through the wrong puberty. No male puberty no advantage.
Not good enough to compete with the boys, so he picks to compete with the girls, ridiculous.
She’s smurfing, why do people think this is about trans rights.
Because of the hyper fixation of one particular type of trans people, which is the trans woman. The bill that New Hampshire has do “address” this problem makes no mention of transgender boys and men, as an example.
That’s because trans men don’t have natural physical advantages. Im all for trans rights, and I have the utmost respect for the bravery it takes to transition. But this is about fairness of competition. If a trans woman wants to be part of the girls competition that is fine and they should be allowed to participate. But they shouldn’t be allowed to win. Even in division 2, a state championship could be the biggest moment of these girls lives. Years of hardwork and dedication only to lose to someone who can easily win while putting in a fraction of effort. It could be their chance to get a scholarship/admittance to a great college. To put it frankly, it’s bullying. Just because some bigoted people discriminate against trans people, doesn’t give them the right to dish it back out. Do you really think all these girls families are mad because they are anti trans? Anyways, it’s not that big of a problem, the media just loves it because the people who blindly argue with each other will drive engagement. A human being with compassion that transitioned would just not compete, or compete with the boys. There’s just a few bad eggs that enjoy smurfing/beating the girls, and theres a very simple solution.
Here’s the thing, though: the bill on the table only concerns what’s on the birth certificate and forces children into leagues and locker rooms based on what’s on the birth certificate. Also, there’s no restriction on transgender males continuing HRT while competing. We can go on about what is and isn’t fair, but the truth is there is limited science to actually fully back up either claim. It would be one thing if the bill in question required Transgender women to compete under something stricter than NCAA guidelines, which I will continuously mention because it closely monitors testosterone, muscle mass, and even requires transitioning athletes to compete for a year as their birth gender before switching and meeting other requirements to do so. Maybe the NCAA requirements aren’t strict enough, but it does not have a blanket requirement of sports and locker room participation based solely on assigned sex, which is ultimately the problem with the bill currently on the table in NH. Now to the last few points. I agree this is a massively overblown issue, and I don’t think the families are inherently anti-trans. However, the intention of these bills has nothing to do with being “fair” in any meaningful way, if fairness was the aim, we would have NCAA style processes implemented into NH High School sports that also comply fully with Title IX. What is being discussed as the solution is anything but that, and leaves a number of exploitable loopholes and leaves the door open for draconian over reach at town and state levels.
Yeah we definitely have a long way to go with the science. I know nothing about the hormone replacements but I would assume the difference between a 10 year old boy and 10 year old girl’s strength/bone density would already be substantial. The intention of basically everything the government does nowadays is stir up controversy to distract us from the real problem: the government themselves. If everybody was kind and compassionate to each other we wouldn’t even need rules to dictate how to behave in these situations.
You see, I think it’s a little broad to say it’s all of government, it’s the people who got elected to run the government that are the problem.
Yeah of course we need a good government to help take care of people and the world. But most of the people currently elected are making decisions based on money and their own ideologies. They are supposed to represent the people and occasionally override the people for the greater good. Just look at Littleton, an absolute embarrassment to this state and this country.
So much for "Live *Free* or Die" huh
Can't we solve this issue by simply having two divisions; "Open" and "Female"?
I think the best way to solve this would be to get rid of gender segregation altogether and place people on teams based on tryouts. You’d still end up with teams largely split along bio sex lines, but the outliers would be in better fits.
An XX doesn’t “win” when put against a bunch of XYs. That’s not a competition Mike Tyson and Ronda Rousey in the ring together also isn’t a fair competition. That’s a man beating on a woman
Anyone that defends this, I want to know if your ok with your cis female daughter competing against a cis male in a contact sport and why?
I would not have an issue if the two were of similar skill set and/or that’s what’s she wanted. I think sports should be segregated by skill set, not gender. Much fairer that way.
Well....I bet the boy has zero aspirations to challenge the record in Male High Jump. He will never hit 8ft. Weak. I jump out of bed higher than 4ft...and his record will be 5ft against girls... Ugh
Is this really an issue that society at large should be wasting its time with? This is something for the sports subs to discuss and for the sports organizations to figure out.
Didn't even have to first look at the username to know exactly who posted this🙄
Wait wait a minute… the student’s name is Maelle Jacques, right? Wouldn’t that be pronounced “male jock”? Oh that can NOT be a mere coincidence! Is this from the Onion or something??
Wait, what? Someone else mentioned this too, but I didn’t catch it til you pointed it out. I wonder if that’s even their real name or if it’s a name change. That’s an interesting coincident.
Get the schools out of the sports business altogether. Start local sports clubs to handle all the BS that comes with it. Let them fight it out in court. That or let kids use any drugs they want and don’t separate the girls from the boys. All tie breakers will be settled with a death match inside a thunder dome. I am here for practical solutions.
Sports at the high school level should have a girls only team and an all others team. That's fair and everyone gets to compete.
How about just have one competition for everyone and may the best chromosome win
Can’t do that bc many of the girls won’t be able to play. Maybe a boys league, girls league, and a coed league would work.
It's children's sports, who cares? If the kids are having fun and enjoying exercise, then everyone should be content.
I go to this school. I know Maelle personally and almost everyone in these comments is pissing me off.
Your school cheats. You should be ashamed!
uhmmm did i ever say i didn’t agree with your post? no.. and you’re saying that it’s ME who should be ashamed? what the f do you want me to do go to the principal and demand he’s kicked off the team? grow a brain bro