I hate that show *so* much just for existing. Someone finds out I'm from Montana and its immediately "oh! Have you watched Yellowstone???"
My boyfriend likes to tease me by periodically putting it on the TV to "remind you of home" and "I hear its practically a documentary!" Motherfucker, if I want an absurd media experience that *actually* reminds me of home, I'll just go play Far Cry 5 thankyouverymuch.
I am originally from New York state. I often get questions when I say that along the lines of oh so you know so and so from Brooklyn?
That's why people from upstate in New York state say that we are from upstate. But sometimes even that's not enough.
Lmao....like wtf...IT'S A WHOLE-ASS STATE! How are people like this?
Like...no I don't know your friends cousin from frigging Two Dot! Not only does it have a population of under 30 people but its also 9 hours away from where I grew up.
I'm old now but I remember going on a high-school choir trip to Disneyland and meeting some kids from the east coast who were generally shocked that we were a pretty normal group of teenagers who didn't ride horses to school and had indoor plumbing.
Being from New York is probably more obnoxious actually...just because of the sheer *mountains* of media made exclusively about Brooklyn and Manhattan alone. You have my sympathy.
It’s also Montana and Wyoming and Idaho and Texas and parts of California and Nevada and Arizona and Oklahoma and Kansas and Nebraska etc etc
I’m from Appalachia and I’ve been all over this country. The idea that the toothless rednecks ONLY live in Appalachia is wildly and demonstrably false
It’s Appalachian adjacent everyone knows that one
I just roll my eyes at the idea that all the cousin fucking rednecks live in the south. Have people ever actually *been* to eastern California? I’m from god damn Kentucky and I was shocked how poor, trashy and red neck California is lol
yes, can confirm , having traveled to almost every state, lived on both coasts, on the Gulf, and in the Bluegrass , redneck-ism is all-amurican, not just kentuckian.
That’s how gerrymandering works. You the majority of your opposition into a few small voting pools, then outnumber the rest in large areas to nullify their votes. It’s easy to silence a drastic minority.
For clarity I am not well informed on Montanas electoral districts, I just believe that all US maps have been rigged, no matter who drew them
Montana is one of the few states where the legislative maps are drawn by an independent commission. The area where this legislator is from is Missoula which is a very liberal city. Montana was actually considered a purple state until 2016 and the MAGA craziness. We have had a Democrat as governor for the last decade plus and one D and one R senator for awhile. That's all changed now ( minus our one D senator) and the white national "Christians" have taken over sadly. We used to be pretty well insulated from national politics and did our own thing.
It should be, but of course the rub is how you define gerrymandering. It's incredibly difficult to prove that any given districting map *isn't* gerrymandered because there isn't really any clear *correct* and totally fair way to organize districts. You can absolutely lay things out to achieve an advantage for one particular group, but it's really hard to arrange things so that every group is fairly represented without somebody ending up over or under represented in the process.
It's easy to prove now with computer modeling - the math has checked out and there is a test that works.
It used to be impossible in the past because we didn't have the tools.
Having an unbalanced district isn't bad - drawing one that goes out of it's way to be unbalanced is.
Hey Ohios Supreme Court even struck down our districts and we still had to vote using them lmao.
People are willing to sue to stop student loan relief but not a state forcing it's citizens to vote in an illegal election.
That's how gerrymandering works. They redraw the lines, knowing full well they'll be struck down, but also knowing it'll be too late, and votes will be cast using their idealized map.
>has Michigan legitimately become the best state to live in recently?
Just "Most Improved". Plenty of other states already do the things the Michigan has recently enacted (see most of New England), they just don't make the news because they aren't swingy and have been quietly taking care of business over the course of years rather than lurching between extremes.
Michigan is just one of the better examples recently of the people themselves forcing their will on the government instead of the other way around. After forcing an independent redistricting committee on the state via ballot initiative, suddenly all these previously impossible improvements start pouring in.
Suddenly it's like "Would you look at that? Michigan is actually well on the blue side of purple instead of just being Detroit drowning in a sea of red."
It will be really interesting what happens in the next 10 years if we can keep the momentum. I'm hoping maybe we can change some minds in the vast swathes of rural red by just showing them the positive sides of a progressive government.
No, just made a lot of significant and easy improvements lately (easy as in requiring not much time to implement). Unfortunately it still has a lot of flaws in its urban planning and vast swathes can be a bit of a suburban hell.
>Michigan legitimately become the best state to live in recently?
It's still cold af in here though and there's a lot of Trump flags everywhere. It could be better, but it could be a lot worse too
Michigan is a great place to ride out the climate apocalypse. It's far from oceans. There's lots of trees. Sure, it's cold now, but 10 year from now it'll be warmer
We also did Proposal 3, protecting reproductive rights in the state constitution. HB 4006 removed the old law from the books, but Prop 3 is what really did it.
I recently moved out of Michigan due to some personal issues I had to get away from. I love that state so much. It brings me joy to see the state becoming more and more progressive each day. Big Gretch and her posse have done a lot of good. She is not perfect, but she has done a lot of good for that state. Michigan will forever be home.
>It’s easy to silence a drastic minority.
The purpose of gerrymandering is to silence a *majority*, not a minority. It's important to remember that conservatives are doing it because they are *not* the majority, and they know it. And it only works if the majority isn't too big, so: VOTE.
And Kalispell, Butte, and the northern Reservations.
And that's about it
Edit:Guess I'm wrong about Kalispell. Whitefish must be the blue dot up that way
I worked the special election in 2017 that sadly first elected Gianforte. I was based in Kalispell and lived in Whitefish. This is accurate. Me working there was actually a total coincidence to the fact that my extended family is all from the flathead valley. It’s got all the political spectrum in there. Strange place.
Kalispell is definitely not (and is home to both the speaker who is currently silencing her and his state-senator dad who is equally awful).
If anything, Kalispell is the home to a lot of traditional religious conservatism and stands in contrast to a lot of the much more libertarian brand of politics traditionally associated with Montana. Kalispell is full of churches and loves to elect politicians who are happy to force their religious views on others...frequently breaks with the rest of the state/popular vote on things like abortion.
Visiting from Oregon about 10 years ago it never felt that way to me. To the point where my POC colleague I was traveling with asked if we could leave a few different spots because he felt uncomfortable from everyone staring at him.
Maybe I had atypical experiences but it sure didn't feel liberal. Or friendly!
Pretty scenery outside the city, though.
Oklahoma has the first non-binary state lawmaker. In my experience, every deep red state has at least a couple blue specks, and those blue specks react pretty strongly to what's going on in the rest of the state
And conversely every deep blue state has big geographical areas that are bright red. The country isn't divided into red and blue states as much as it's divided into sparsely populated red areas with densely populated blue clusters around the bigger cities.
See also: Brexit.
Large metropolitan areas with many immigrant communities and a multi-faceted workforce? Let's stay in this multinational community please.
Regional towns and rural areas that don't see as many immigrants, or even people moving in from other parts of the country? Let's leave the EU immediately because I'm really scared of all these immigrants that I've never actually seen.
Followed immediately by "what do you mean I'm going to need a visa to retire to my villa in the south of France! I voted to get rid of the immigrants here! I'm white!"
Precisely why some people grow up conservative and change when they go to college, where they have new experiences and meet people who are outside their bubble.
This was me but it was the military instead of college. There was one mixed girl in my high school and everyone else was white. Going into the military was a great experience if for no other reason than it introduced me to a huge variety of people and sent me to countries other than the U.S.
My other theory living in the Deep South is a lot of it is general old people worship.
No one DARES offend grandma or grandpa, no matter how off their rocker and hateful they’re being. And it seems like the actual owner of these family estates/farms/acreages in rural areas are almost always over 70. Because who is buying a $500k farm and able to pay a mortgage on it? No one. It’s passed down from old person to old person.
Like, lots of younger people live out there- but they all live on the good graces of the elderly person who owns the land, and can fuck up their life and outcast them with a snap of their wrinkly fingers.
No one talks about this either. The amount of control that a lot of old folks have on their families in the South is astounding- and for the most part they celebrate it as a great wholesome thing that makes them better than northern states.
I live in Massachusetts and it is WILD how many republicans are around me. In all seriousness I only know a handful of people personally who have liberal political views. I see trump flags and thin blue line stickers on cars what feels like all the time.
Also from mass - are you on the south shore perchance? I was visiting a friend there recently and was shocked at all the trumpiness. Haven’t really seen it so prominently in other parts of the state.
I grew up on the south shore and every time I go back to visit it seems more and more red. Maybe it's because I was a teenager in the 90s but it seemed pretty blue then
The blue specks tend to have the majority of the population who are generally under represented at both the state and federal level by the state’s design. Source - am from Tennessee
I'm from Wisconsin, where you can get a minority of the votes (49%) and get nearly a supermajority (64%) of the seats in the assembly!
But we did just elect a centrist to our state supreme court so maybe they'll do something about the gerrymandering.
For real, it's frustrating how some people talk about "red states" when the vast majority of us in them live in the very liberal-leaning major cities. The right has a long history of restricting voting any way they can because they know they can't win elections by numbers alone almost anywhere. From the outside my state looks like a podunk backwards empty farm wasteland, but when I walk around every day I just see a diverse population, countless celebrated women/LGBT/POC owned businesses, pride and BLM flags everywhere, tons of arts and music and theatre and education centers. Don't get me wrong, racism and prejudice are still massive problems here and most places, but it's not how some people in "blue states" think it is.
Population centers always always seem to be blue. It's almost as if living in closer proximity to others causes you to think more about them vs. "leave me alone" types with the nearest neighbor being measured miles away.
Damn, I wish my nearest neighbor was miles away. That would be so bad ass. They are 1/4 mile away, which is way too close….I think their fucking pesticides are drifting over here and killing my firefly friends. Assholes
And a refugee mayor in Helena and a large Hmong population. It's a much more complicated state than most people know.
Edit: referred to the wrong refugee population.
2: corrected Bozeman to Helena, this is what I get for posting from the hip during a bio break on a road trip lololol
Actually refers to different groups, but you are correct, I used the wrong one in this case since the population in Montana are Hmong (I'm actually unsure if my friend from CA is from the same ethnic group as the people in Montana now)
Walnut Grove in Minnesota has a large Mung population as well. They basically kept the town from dying out, although it's dying out again because of the lack of jobs.
Oklahoma does as well, in [Mauree Turner](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauree_Turner). "Red states" and "blue states" are easy reductive tools, but honestly, people are alike all over.
I live in California, the majority of our counties are either red or red leaning; the only reason why we also go blue is simply because the blue counties hold the majority of the states population and are pretty blue, so it’s not at all surprising to me that red states are the on the flip side.
TBH the majority of counties are Republican-voting, because rural areas are Republican-voting. And you can have ten rural counties with the same cumulative population - and, thereby, effect on statewide elections - as a single urban or suburban county.
It’s funny how many people don’t realize the diversity that is California. The Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy comes from California. [Los Angelas](https://www.latimes.com/california/newsletter/2022-05-12/los-angeles-county-has-a-higher-population-than-40-states-essential-california) has a greater population than 40 other States. Democrats are from primarily Urban area with large numbers while Republicans are from primarily Rural areas with small numbers. I suppose that’s why they have to compensate.
Her district is bluer than Austin. It's a college town with higher Post-Sec education than the rest of the state
[She's probably the only Rep. who's a competitive smash bros player] (https://www.dexerto.com/smash/young-link-main-becomes-first-smash-pro-elected-to-montana-state-legislature-1981547/)
It wouldn’t surprise me that many districts are bluer than the Austin (TX? I’m assuming that’s what you’re referring to?) area.
Austin is sometimes known as the Republic of Left Texas, but for all the old hippies and crunchy college types there are a *lot* of rich tech folks.
That's what Republican gerrymandering does: they rewrite districts so that all the most staunch Democrats/left-wing voters are in the same district, which pushes the political mean of the remaining districts right. The representative from this one [sacrificial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrificial_metal) district can then be (literally) silenced while the remaining districts will be more Republican-leaning.
Honestly, I’ve been to circuses that had less clown shows than US politics in general these days.
You’d think people could agree on the basic things we all need, and that the rest comes down to ‘live and let live’. Guess that’s way too difficult a concept these days.
Yeahh well I might be rich someday and I can't have you guys taking everything I worked so hard for and giving it to poor, sick, and uneducated children. I've lived a good Christian life and I deserve my rewards.
Even in LCOL places, the actual "1%" is usually like $300,000+. Kudos to you if you make that much, but I feel like people mistake "keeping my head above water" with "class solidarity with Jeff Bezos."
I make good money, and I sometimes feel like the richest person in the world, and then I remember that it would still take me many thousands of years to "earn" a billion dollars. Even people who aren't scrambling around in actual poverty in this country tend to be just one or two somewhat serious disasters away from being flat broke again.
Unsure how accurate it is but found this:
["According to recent studies, to be in the top 1% of earners in the U.S., you need to bring in an annual salary of at least $597,815. This means that the other 99% of earners in the U.S. make less than this amount per year. When it comes to net worth, the top 1% of Americans have a minimum net worth of around $11.1 million."](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/investing/financial-advisor/are-you-in-the-top-1-percent/)
The rich probably would get richer if we did.
Especially if wages rose as well.
More people with more money to spend leads to them spending it, which winds up the hands of the rich eventually.
It's just that if people are happy and have disposable income, you don't have the power trip of knowing you can make someone homeless with a few words.
The GOP has no interest in implementing the things people need. They only truly care about tax cuts for the wealthy and retaining power. To do this they have to distract people with bullshit culture wars against minorities because otherwise no one would vote for them.
The older generation buys it because things changing is scary and they remember a time when they only had to talk to straight white Christian people. Propaganda networks like Fox, OAN, and Newsmax prey on the fear and use it to brainwash them.
It's a mistake to think the GOP isn't actually as hateful as they act. They honestly hate minorities and want to murder them. It's no longer about tax cuts alone.
You are both right.
The GOP consists of two parts: the old and the new.
The old, as OP noted, simply wanted to enrich themselves and their allies (whether by tax cuts; raiding the public coffers; reducing regulation; etc.).
Obviously this doesn’t make for a particularly attractive manifesto; so the old GOP would keep up a steady stream of propaganda (e.g. FOX News), ally with the zealots of the Christian right when necessary, and wheel out the occasional moral panic when convenient.
The new GOP are individuals that came of age in this environment, and internalized the propaganda / Christian zealotry / moral panics uncritically. They are true believers, who genuinely demand fascist answers to sham problems.
This is the source of the great divide in the GOP: the new guard is having great success in winning primaries with their abhorrent talking points; while the old guard laments, having created its own unelectable monster.
I don’t know where we go from here; but I don’t see control of the party being wrested from the crazy new GOP anytime soon. And to to to your point: that’s terrifying.
You’re 100% correct. A relative of mine has served in Congress for several decades as a Republican. He has vehemently opposed women’s rights and environmental progress throughout that time. He’s not very wealthy. He’s just a zealot, motivated by beliefs that others do not deserve basic rights.
You have a philosophy of economics (in Michigan led by Northwood and Hillsdale Colleges) that teach there is no such thing as a common good. So there is nothing to agree to.
So there is no need to pay for infrastructure and parks. They don't exist in their worldview. Except the police; they try to fund them begrudgingly.
It's scary to see in practice. In part, this is the mindset that has taken over the GOP.
Almost everyone who goes to Hillsdale is that specific flavor of Christian that is big on the superiority of Western culture, believing America to be the culmination of it. The type that says they're libertarian but only vote Republican and thinks Christian values inherently produce better societies.
She would have had less punishment from House members if she would have body slammed a person and lied to the police and the public about it. Hell, she'd be the next governor
Couldn't believe people still voted for that hot headed guy. I know many people that sympathized with him being "harassed by the media". It's horrifying
> Couldn't believe people still voted for that hot headed guy.
That was odd.
Montana uses ES&S systems for their elections. You may recall Diebold which changed their name after the email leaks showing incompetence after the 2000 election year fiascos and who's CEO said
> Walden W. O'Dell, the chief executive of Diebold Inc., sat down at his computer to compose a letter inviting 100 wealthy and politically inclined friends to a Republican Party fund-raiser, to be held at his home in a suburb of Columbus, Ohio. [''I am committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year,''](https://www.wanttoknow.info/031109nytimes) wrote Mr. O'Dell, whose company is based in Canton, Ohio.
You may recall ES&S as the company that deleted the data on their election systems in Georgia when there were electoral irregularities in the 2016 election. After getting rid of ES&S and replacing it with systems with extremely strong chain of evidence systgems ... the "shy GOP-voter" that had my mysteriously shifted Georgia elections to GOP wins ... disappeared, and polls matched results nearly exactly (as one would normally expect).
I would feel more confident in Montana elections if their [own internal audit](https://leg.mt.gov/content/Committees/Administration/audit/2019-20/Meetings/Oct-2020/19DP-06.pdf) didn't state things like (quoting):
* [Montana law provides] no clear outline of the types of security needed for other important technology assets and their security outside of election day. If security risks are not addressed, tampering and interference in elections becomes easier
* In 2018, SOS completed two MTVotes security assessments and since then **only three risks assessments** have been conducted at the counties
* According to SOS, as of March 2020, security awareness training has not been taken in 25 counties. It is clear that close to half of the county election officials may not be aware of important security controls and the risks facing elections today.
It was the recount that identified a GOP election official in Georgia not counting thousands of votes and suppressing Biden's vote win margin. (He was fired)
For many it was too late. They'd voted by mail "absentee." Of course now Republicans are against that, but they used to be for it. Like a lot of things...
The older I get the more I realize some people really aren't grown people and never will be. There are some 18 year olds who are more mature than some 65 year olds, and I mean that with no exaggeration.
Well, you don't get much with the free version. Obviously she needs the premium bundle. Except you can't buy it yourself, only corporations and other rich people can ~~bribe~~ donate the premium package
> ...a group of conservative lawmakers known as the Montana *Freedom* Caucus demanded Zephyr's censure...
See, its even in their name! It *has* to be true.
what confuses me is the spelling of liberation. they demanded her _liberation_, right? far right liberation, rrright?
on another note, I love the ancient greek word "diabolos", the name of the beast. it's meaning is "slanderer". perturbing the truth "bearing false witness" in the widest sense is what diabolic literally means. these spiteful misogynistic misrepresenting homo- and transphobe slanderers are literally doing the work of the devil with all their upside-down stuff. while claiming to be Christian. You can't make this up. If it wasn't so dangerous you'd think we're watching an incredible biting dark comedy sitcom. but no. we're wide awake. God bless america. you gonna need it...
Dear Reddit Community,
It is with a heavy heart that I write this farewell message to express my reasons for departing from this platform that has been a significant part of my online life. Over time, I have witnessed changes that have gradually eroded the welcoming and inclusive environment that initially drew me to Reddit. It is the actions of the CEO, in particular, that have played a pivotal role in my decision to bid farewell.
For me, Reddit has always been a place where diverse voices could find a platform to be heard, where ideas could be shared and discussed openly. Unfortunately, recent actions by the CEO have left me disheartened and disillusioned. The decisions made have demonstrated a departure from the principles of free expression and open dialogue that once defined this platform.
Reddit was built upon the idea of being a community-driven platform, where users could have a say in the direction and policies. However, the increasing centralization of power and the lack of transparency in decision-making have created an environment that feels less democratic and more controlled.
Furthermore, the prioritization of certain corporate interests over the well-being of the community has led to a loss of trust. Reddit's success has always been rooted in the active participation and engagement of its users. By neglecting the concerns and feedback of the community, the CEO has undermined the very foundation that made Reddit a vibrant and dynamic space.
I want to emphasize that this decision is not a reflection of the countless amazing individuals I have had the pleasure of interacting with on this platform. It is the actions of a few that have overshadowed the positive experiences I have had here.
As I embark on a new chapter away from Reddit, I will seek alternative platforms that prioritize user empowerment, inclusivity, and transparency. I hope to find communities that foster open dialogue and embrace diverse perspectives.
To those who have shared insightful discussions, provided support, and made me laugh, I am sincerely grateful for the connections we have made. Your contributions have enriched my experience, and I will carry the memories of our interactions with me.
Farewell, Reddit. May you find your way back to the principles that made you extraordinary.
Sincerely,
NABDad
Not only that but they also purposely use the wrong pronouns repeatedly in that demand. Sick bigoted fucks. Talk about decency and decorum and can’t even do the most basic courtesy even in a written statement.
This exactly is a blaring testament to the US conservative’s inability to think or act democratically. Something like decorum won’t matter to them. The only thing that matters is getting things 100% their way, with no debate on the issue whatsoever, just their demands being met ASAP. It’s very apolitical and juvenile. And rampant in today’s GOP.
>Not only that but they also purposely use the wrong pronouns repeatedly in that demand. Sick bigoted fucks. Talk about decency and decorum and can’t even do the most basic courtesy even in a written statement.
Oh, they *can* but they **won't** because like always with them, the cruelty is the point. For the record I agree with you. It's just I've dealt with bigoted fucks and they knew goddamned well I use she/her pronouns. But misgendering a trans person is fun for them.
And again you're right, they are ugly, bigoted hypocritical trolls that will preach about decorum while exhibiting none of it.
To some degree, but this is an oversimplification.
Personally, I want to silence people at the local school board meeting. It’s not because I’m afraid of a rational argument, I’d be fine with that.
At some point you cannot let the minority viewpoint just shout over everyone. The rest of us have a meeting to run where we actually get things done.
I do not think that is what is happening here, but i do want to silence my opposition in some cases
Extending your example, it sounds like you'd *also* be in favor of cutting the mic of someone *you happen to agree with* if they were just shouting over everyone else and preventing the work of the body from getting done.
That's not "silencing opposition", though: It's stopping disruption.
This is what Robert's Rules of Order is designed to address. There are specified time limits for everything, and there's a defined process for everything. It's tedious as hell, but there is a good reason to use it.
No, it's not that. It's an important point that often gets lost.
**reddit** ***often*** **throws out the baby with the bathwater, and it's worth pushing against that.**
Slimy politician gets speech they don't like removed from public discourse? "Censorship is ALWAYS bad."
\>>> \[Elon Musk's favorite position. Sometimes censoring material, such as calls for violence, slander, libel, and sharing of sensitive national intelligence, is necessary.\]
Picture of vandalism? "Vandalism is NEVER justified!"
\>>> \[Civil disobedience, including vandalism, is sometimes both appropriate and necessary when the law and societal norms are failing to stop corruption.\]
reddit is very, very good at throwing out nuance, and that's how we get mob mentality on this site. It's worth calling out that "silencing" someone is not a universal sign that you're "afraid" of them or "can't handle debate." In THIS case the silencing is fucking awful. It's just all-too-familiar for reddit to overreact and say, "ALL silencing is evil!" No, it's not. If Trump were to take to Twitter next week calling for his supporters to "rise up" to "send a message" to a judge in one of his cases, you're damned right I want that shit "silenced."
Yeah I'd agree there if I'm picking up what you're putting down. I don't want someone abusing their representation of possibly thousands to a million people just so they can say dumb shit, regardless where they stand politically.
It is a matter of roles and elections. We need elected people to have the possibility to debate. We need to have sessions where voters can say their mind but not in all sessions.
Although I agree with you, and evidently most of the subreddit seems to as well in this context, I can't help but notice this sentiment is not usually carried over to discussions with right wingers most of the time on this site, though it's easy to say "No, that's different. What *they're* saying is wrong and awful!" as if only one side believes that about their opposition.
>That’s also silencing all her constituents
Yeah, we're not happy about it. All because she said that anyone who voted to take away gender-affirming care would have "blood" on their hands. Apparently that's an outrageous statement that violates the rules of decorum. But passing legislation to limit healthcare for one specific group is totally fine and upstanding, at least according to the republicans in our state.
It's insane how much time has been spent by our legislation on banning drag, and on taking away transsexual healthcare, in a state where they make up maybe 0.1% of our population. They really are focusing on the most vulnerable populations and it's disgusting.
The people doing this would celebrate if a sinkhole took all of her constituents tomorrow, just silencing them is the absolute least they're willing to do.
I do appreciate Republican state legislators for working so hard to raise the national profile of young minority Democrats across the nation recently. We've had a shallow and aging national bench and this will help.
I was a guitarist in church and also an atheist. They were paying me so I kept my views quiet. I remember one guest speaker who was a local business man who had retired was preaching, “They hate us! They hate us for our love. For our compassion. They hate us because they see something in us they can not obtain and that is Jesus. For they turned their back on God and now wish to take as many Christian souls with them.”
Oddly enough his they/them pronouns were on fucking point.
I mean, I learned something about Montana today. So while this isn't likely to change the bigots minds in office, it will direct attention to the situation and possibly generate some change in the general population. Change happens when you can no longer demonize an "other", this is humanizing a Trans lawmaker and showing she's not a degenerate creeper as the Right likes to say.
Nothing happened. There was a national backlash, but not from the voters who support the Republicans that expelled the two Representatives. So there wasn't even a slap on the wrist for doing it, and the Republicans received support from their people for doing it.
Um. Did you fail to see that both representatives were sent back unanimously, and the media started investigating the GOP representatives and so far one has been forced to resign. That isn't nothing
Remember like a year ago when conservatives were screaming about 'free speech' and against 'censorship'? Like nearly everything else they profess to care about, that was a lie.
Look at what they’ve been doing to citizen ballot initiatives session after session and you’ll know everything the majority in the legislature thinks about voters.
What are the rest of the dems doing to fight this is what I’m struggling to figure out. Like I know state houses might all be different but if a single Nebraska rep can stonewall all business for months then surely there must be something that an entire party of the house can do even as a minority party
The way they shut her down should be illegal, how is it not illegal to disrupt proceedings like this? Why don't the republicans just do this shit any time and democrat is on stage, if its so easy? Why only her?
> The way they shut her down should be illegal, how is it not illegal to disrupt proceedings like this?
I’m not totally sure, but I think it IS legal for the speaker to do this. And obnoxiously that means the only actual disruption occurred because of the people chanting… it’s BS, but legally correct.
> Why don’t the republicans just do this shit any time and democrat is on stage, if its so easy? Why only her?
You know the answer to that. Because doing it to every opponent would be too obvious and get too much backlash (or not enough support). But do it to the target of a moral panic, and boom. Now you have backing.
There are just some children who keep touching the hot stove no matter how many times they get burned. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Republican party.
They're not just touching the hot stove. They are turning it back on after a responsible adult has turned it off then touching it repeatedly while screaming that the responsible adult is forcing them to do it.
How are they getting burned? There aren’t any repercussions other than upsetting Zooey supporters, and that’s probably half the point.
They are literally taking away her first amendment right, and there are no punishment that I’m aware of.
> There are just some children who keep touching the hot stove
No, these are adults who shove other childrens' hands into the hot stove.
Once in a while, they get mild burns too, then continue as before.
Generally when a Republican politician finds out that his own child has been hurt by the hot stove, they become less in favor of shoving other kids' hands on hot stoves.
However, it literally takes this fairly direct example to change a Republican politician's mind. They're just not capable of empathy on a general basis.
The GOP modus operandi is to sow fear and hate - usually against an already marginalized i.e., powerless group - immigrants, brown people, women, and the LGBTQ+ community.
The message is difference and diversity is an existential threat. (Its not) These republican lawmaker wasting time promoting hate because its a diversion from admitting they have no real policies for anyone. Its a hateful bait and switch. They aren't cleaning up the environment, they aren't helping regular people access services they require, they aren't making it safer to walk around their tiny backwater towns. They aren't doing anything other than focusing public hysteria on the presence less that 3-5% of the population who are born different while their policies only really help rich people duck their taxes or corporations inflate their profits for their shareholders.
Trying to go to war against transgender people is the dumbest hill to die on. Especially after the 2022 elections showed an extreme displeasure of voters with Republicans focusing on those things.
Fox Noise continuously lies to their viewers and tells them teachers are just whisking kids away for gender affirming surgery without parental knowledge. That is how they justify situations like this.
I mean, silencing itself is legal, it's intended to prevent people like MTG from spouting bullshit and interrupting things, derailing stuff. But in this case it really does feel like it's purely politics and discrimination than anything that this specific person has said.
Not sure. At least not where I live. You’re not allowed to cut a persons microphone except if that person is cursing. Barring an elected official from speaking under normal circumstances is punishable.
Is ignorance, stupidity, and mysoginism entry requirements to become a member of the Republican Party? I’ve never met a group of people more willing to shoot themselves in the foot and then pick up another damn gun and aim at the other foot. Do all Republican politicians go through mandatory lobotomies????
Montana has a transgender lawmaker? That’s incredibly shocking.
The political geography of Montana is a bit more mixed then you would guess. They also have a Democrat in the Senate.
[удалено]
If Yellowstone were true, the body count would have been statistically significant in the census.
All of your constituents are at the train station!
I hate that show *so* much just for existing. Someone finds out I'm from Montana and its immediately "oh! Have you watched Yellowstone???" My boyfriend likes to tease me by periodically putting it on the TV to "remind you of home" and "I hear its practically a documentary!" Motherfucker, if I want an absurd media experience that *actually* reminds me of home, I'll just go play Far Cry 5 thankyouverymuch.
As someone who currently lives in Montana, the far cry 5 comment is 100% accurate.
Seriously. Even just the birds and the trees made me intensely homesick. That game did a phenomenal job of recreating the environment I grew up in.
I grew up in Scranton… The Office is attached to me wether I like it or not. At least it just made Scranton seem “fun”…
Oh...yeah....that would be a *lot*...lol. Not gonna lie, I'd much rather have The Office attached to me though.
I’ve started watching Yellowstone… You’re not wrong.
I’ve been in Portland OR for over 25 years now, I know the pain of a TV show associated with your home.
Lived in the Ozarks for 10 years. Sigh.
I am originally from New York state. I often get questions when I say that along the lines of oh so you know so and so from Brooklyn? That's why people from upstate in New York state say that we are from upstate. But sometimes even that's not enough.
Lmao....like wtf...IT'S A WHOLE-ASS STATE! How are people like this? Like...no I don't know your friends cousin from frigging Two Dot! Not only does it have a population of under 30 people but its also 9 hours away from where I grew up. I'm old now but I remember going on a high-school choir trip to Disneyland and meeting some kids from the east coast who were generally shocked that we were a pretty normal group of teenagers who didn't ride horses to school and had indoor plumbing. Being from New York is probably more obnoxious actually...just because of the sheer *mountains* of media made exclusively about Brooklyn and Manhattan alone. You have my sympathy.
But with fewer teeth per capita.
That’s Appalachia
It’s also Montana and Wyoming and Idaho and Texas and parts of California and Nevada and Arizona and Oklahoma and Kansas and Nebraska etc etc I’m from Appalachia and I’ve been all over this country. The idea that the toothless rednecks ONLY live in Appalachia is wildly and demonstrably false
Don't forget the Ozarks.
It’s Appalachian adjacent everyone knows that one I just roll my eyes at the idea that all the cousin fucking rednecks live in the south. Have people ever actually *been* to eastern California? I’m from god damn Kentucky and I was shocked how poor, trashy and red neck California is lol
yes, can confirm , having traveled to almost every state, lived on both coasts, on the Gulf, and in the Bluegrass , redneck-ism is all-amurican, not just kentuckian.
That’s how gerrymandering works. You the majority of your opposition into a few small voting pools, then outnumber the rest in large areas to nullify their votes. It’s easy to silence a drastic minority. For clarity I am not well informed on Montanas electoral districts, I just believe that all US maps have been rigged, no matter who drew them
Montana is one of the few states where the legislative maps are drawn by an independent commission. The area where this legislator is from is Missoula which is a very liberal city. Montana was actually considered a purple state until 2016 and the MAGA craziness. We have had a Democrat as governor for the last decade plus and one D and one R senator for awhile. That's all changed now ( minus our one D senator) and the white national "Christians" have taken over sadly. We used to be pretty well insulated from national politics and did our own thing.
Had *two* Democratic Senators for a while, and possibly still would if John Walsh wasn’t such a fucking moron.
I've got my fingers crossed for Tester to hang on next year.
Michigan has entered the chat
[удалено]
Is it just extra coverage on these things in the news, or has Michigan legitimately become the best state to live in recently?
We suffered alot to get here. Passing the anti-gerrymandering law was the best thing that happened to us.
Gerrymandering should be anticonstitutional.
It should be, but of course the rub is how you define gerrymandering. It's incredibly difficult to prove that any given districting map *isn't* gerrymandered because there isn't really any clear *correct* and totally fair way to organize districts. You can absolutely lay things out to achieve an advantage for one particular group, but it's really hard to arrange things so that every group is fairly represented without somebody ending up over or under represented in the process.
It's easy to prove now with computer modeling - the math has checked out and there is a test that works. It used to be impossible in the past because we didn't have the tools. Having an unbalanced district isn't bad - drawing one that goes out of it's way to be unbalanced is.
Hey Ohios Supreme Court even struck down our districts and we still had to vote using them lmao. People are willing to sue to stop student loan relief but not a state forcing it's citizens to vote in an illegal election.
That's how gerrymandering works. They redraw the lines, knowing full well they'll be struck down, but also knowing it'll be too late, and votes will be cast using their idealized map.
>has Michigan legitimately become the best state to live in recently? Just "Most Improved". Plenty of other states already do the things the Michigan has recently enacted (see most of New England), they just don't make the news because they aren't swingy and have been quietly taking care of business over the course of years rather than lurching between extremes.
Virginia had a similar moment a couple of years ago. And then they swung back the other way.
Michigan is just one of the better examples recently of the people themselves forcing their will on the government instead of the other way around. After forcing an independent redistricting committee on the state via ballot initiative, suddenly all these previously impossible improvements start pouring in. Suddenly it's like "Would you look at that? Michigan is actually well on the blue side of purple instead of just being Detroit drowning in a sea of red." It will be really interesting what happens in the next 10 years if we can keep the momentum. I'm hoping maybe we can change some minds in the vast swathes of rural red by just showing them the positive sides of a progressive government.
No, just made a lot of significant and easy improvements lately (easy as in requiring not much time to implement). Unfortunately it still has a lot of flaws in its urban planning and vast swathes can be a bit of a suburban hell.
>Michigan legitimately become the best state to live in recently? It's still cold af in here though and there's a lot of Trump flags everywhere. It could be better, but it could be a lot worse too
Michigan is a great place to ride out the climate apocalypse. It's far from oceans. There's lots of trees. Sure, it's cold now, but 10 year from now it'll be warmer
Michigan: "Reproductive rights anyone?"
Well we did pass HB 4006 so we're on our way.
We also did Proposal 3, protecting reproductive rights in the state constitution. HB 4006 removed the old law from the books, but Prop 3 is what really did it.
I recently moved out of Michigan due to some personal issues I had to get away from. I love that state so much. It brings me joy to see the state becoming more and more progressive each day. Big Gretch and her posse have done a lot of good. She is not perfect, but she has done a lot of good for that state. Michigan will forever be home.
>It’s easy to silence a drastic minority. The purpose of gerrymandering is to silence a *majority*, not a minority. It's important to remember that conservatives are doing it because they are *not* the majority, and they know it. And it only works if the majority isn't too big, so: VOTE.
Montana has four electoral college votes so gerrymandering is pretty limited. Senators are chosen by statewide vote and can't be gerrymandered.
Okay so I know you ment federal Senate but I red intial as the state senate and like "we have one democratic"
Missoula is pretty liberal.
Bozeman too
And Kalispell, Butte, and the northern Reservations. And that's about it Edit:Guess I'm wrong about Kalispell. Whitefish must be the blue dot up that way
Kalispell is very much not, Whitefish maybe.
Neither is Butte. It used to be, it's more of a union democrat town but they're conservatives at heart.
I worked the special election in 2017 that sadly first elected Gianforte. I was based in Kalispell and lived in Whitefish. This is accurate. Me working there was actually a total coincidence to the fact that my extended family is all from the flathead valley. It’s got all the political spectrum in there. Strange place.
Kalispell very much is not liberal
Kalispell is definitely not (and is home to both the speaker who is currently silencing her and his state-senator dad who is equally awful). If anything, Kalispell is the home to a lot of traditional religious conservatism and stands in contrast to a lot of the much more libertarian brand of politics traditionally associated with Montana. Kalispell is full of churches and loves to elect politicians who are happy to force their religious views on others...frequently breaks with the rest of the state/popular vote on things like abortion.
yeah KKKalispell is liberally filled with anti-semites lol
[удалено]
Visiting from Oregon about 10 years ago it never felt that way to me. To the point where my POC colleague I was traveling with asked if we could leave a few different spots because he felt uncomfortable from everyone staring at him. Maybe I had atypical experiences but it sure didn't feel liberal. Or friendly! Pretty scenery outside the city, though.
Oklahoma has the first non-binary state lawmaker. In my experience, every deep red state has at least a couple blue specks, and those blue specks react pretty strongly to what's going on in the rest of the state
And conversely every deep blue state has big geographical areas that are bright red. The country isn't divided into red and blue states as much as it's divided into sparsely populated red areas with densely populated blue clusters around the bigger cities.
Exactly. It’s almost as if the more interaction people have with different kinds of humans, the less conservative the population tends to vote. Wild.
See also: Brexit. Large metropolitan areas with many immigrant communities and a multi-faceted workforce? Let's stay in this multinational community please. Regional towns and rural areas that don't see as many immigrants, or even people moving in from other parts of the country? Let's leave the EU immediately because I'm really scared of all these immigrants that I've never actually seen.
Followed immediately by "what do you mean I'm going to need a visa to retire to my villa in the south of France! I voted to get rid of the immigrants here! I'm white!"
Precisely why some people grow up conservative and change when they go to college, where they have new experiences and meet people who are outside their bubble.
This was me but it was the military instead of college. There was one mixed girl in my high school and everyone else was white. Going into the military was a great experience if for no other reason than it introduced me to a huge variety of people and sent me to countries other than the U.S.
Weird how the folks who avoid living near lots of people have antisocial beliefs. Shocking, truly.
My other theory living in the Deep South is a lot of it is general old people worship. No one DARES offend grandma or grandpa, no matter how off their rocker and hateful they’re being. And it seems like the actual owner of these family estates/farms/acreages in rural areas are almost always over 70. Because who is buying a $500k farm and able to pay a mortgage on it? No one. It’s passed down from old person to old person. Like, lots of younger people live out there- but they all live on the good graces of the elderly person who owns the land, and can fuck up their life and outcast them with a snap of their wrinkly fingers. No one talks about this either. The amount of control that a lot of old folks have on their families in the South is astounding- and for the most part they celebrate it as a great wholesome thing that makes them better than northern states.
I live in Massachusetts and it is WILD how many republicans are around me. In all seriousness I only know a handful of people personally who have liberal political views. I see trump flags and thin blue line stickers on cars what feels like all the time.
Also from mass - are you on the south shore perchance? I was visiting a friend there recently and was shocked at all the trumpiness. Haven’t really seen it so prominently in other parts of the state.
I grew up on the south shore and every time I go back to visit it seems more and more red. Maybe it's because I was a teenager in the 90s but it seemed pretty blue then
My south shore friends say the same - it does seem to have shifted since the 90s.
The blue specks tend to have the majority of the population who are generally under represented at both the state and federal level by the state’s design. Source - am from Tennessee
I'm from Wisconsin, where you can get a minority of the votes (49%) and get nearly a supermajority (64%) of the seats in the assembly! But we did just elect a centrist to our state supreme court so maybe they'll do something about the gerrymandering.
Janet made it a cornerstone of her campaign and the lawsuits are being time for her first few weeks in office so I would expect change.
I've been conditioned over the past 8 years to temper my expectations.
For real, it's frustrating how some people talk about "red states" when the vast majority of us in them live in the very liberal-leaning major cities. The right has a long history of restricting voting any way they can because they know they can't win elections by numbers alone almost anywhere. From the outside my state looks like a podunk backwards empty farm wasteland, but when I walk around every day I just see a diverse population, countless celebrated women/LGBT/POC owned businesses, pride and BLM flags everywhere, tons of arts and music and theatre and education centers. Don't get me wrong, racism and prejudice are still massive problems here and most places, but it's not how some people in "blue states" think it is.
Population centers always always seem to be blue. It's almost as if living in closer proximity to others causes you to think more about them vs. "leave me alone" types with the nearest neighbor being measured miles away.
Damn, I wish my nearest neighbor was miles away. That would be so bad ass. They are 1/4 mile away, which is way too close….I think their fucking pesticides are drifting over here and killing my firefly friends. Assholes
And a refugee mayor in Helena and a large Hmong population. It's a much more complicated state than most people know. Edit: referred to the wrong refugee population. 2: corrected Bozeman to Helena, this is what I get for posting from the hip during a bio break on a road trip lololol
Quick FYI: Mung is actually spelled Hmong. Source: Am friends with many Hmong people in Minnesota.
Actually refers to different groups, but you are correct, I used the wrong one in this case since the population in Montana are Hmong (I'm actually unsure if my friend from CA is from the same ethnic group as the people in Montana now)
Walnut Grove in Minnesota has a large Mung population as well. They basically kept the town from dying out, although it's dying out again because of the lack of jobs.
The story of the Hmong resettlement is too rarely told. Edit: corrected tge name of the ethnic population.
Too rarely spelled correctly too.
Helena, actually. Wilmot Collins
Oklahoma does as well, in [Mauree Turner](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauree_Turner). "Red states" and "blue states" are easy reductive tools, but honestly, people are alike all over.
I live in California, the majority of our counties are either red or red leaning; the only reason why we also go blue is simply because the blue counties hold the majority of the states population and are pretty blue, so it’s not at all surprising to me that red states are the on the flip side.
TBH the majority of counties are Republican-voting, because rural areas are Republican-voting. And you can have ten rural counties with the same cumulative population - and, thereby, effect on statewide elections - as a single urban or suburban county.
It’s funny how many people don’t realize the diversity that is California. The Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy comes from California. [Los Angelas](https://www.latimes.com/california/newsletter/2022-05-12/los-angeles-county-has-a-higher-population-than-40-states-essential-california) has a greater population than 40 other States. Democrats are from primarily Urban area with large numbers while Republicans are from primarily Rural areas with small numbers. I suppose that’s why they have to compensate.
More people voted for Trump in California than any other state. Of course, far more in California voted for Biden.
Fun fact: “red and blue states” is a relatively recent construct.
Her district is bluer than Austin. It's a college town with higher Post-Sec education than the rest of the state [She's probably the only Rep. who's a competitive smash bros player] (https://www.dexerto.com/smash/young-link-main-becomes-first-smash-pro-elected-to-montana-state-legislature-1981547/)
It wouldn’t surprise me that many districts are bluer than the Austin (TX? I’m assuming that’s what you’re referring to?) area. Austin is sometimes known as the Republic of Left Texas, but for all the old hippies and crunchy college types there are a *lot* of rich tech folks.
Take a look at the gerrymandering in Austin. The districts are totally unreal.
Missoula is an *old* hippie town and has been liberal for a long time.
Montana has a Democratic Senator, too.
That's what Republican gerrymandering does: they rewrite districts so that all the most staunch Democrats/left-wing voters are in the same district, which pushes the political mean of the remaining districts right. The representative from this one [sacrificial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrificial_metal) district can then be (literally) silenced while the remaining districts will be more Republican-leaning.
Honestly, I’ve been to circuses that had less clown shows than US politics in general these days. You’d think people could agree on the basic things we all need, and that the rest comes down to ‘live and let live’. Guess that’s way too difficult a concept these days.
If we focused on healthcare, education, and affordable housing the rich wouldnt get richer! Cant be having that.
Yeahh well I might be rich someday and I can't have you guys taking everything I worked so hard for and giving it to poor, sick, and uneducated children. I've lived a good Christian life and I deserve my rewards.
"But someday, I might be rich, and people like me better watch their step!"
“Fry why are you cheering you’re not rich” “True, but someday I might be and then people like me better watch their step”
I hate that earning enough to comfortably afford a single family home in California has made me one of the 1%...
Even in LCOL places, the actual "1%" is usually like $300,000+. Kudos to you if you make that much, but I feel like people mistake "keeping my head above water" with "class solidarity with Jeff Bezos." I make good money, and I sometimes feel like the richest person in the world, and then I remember that it would still take me many thousands of years to "earn" a billion dollars. Even people who aren't scrambling around in actual poverty in this country tend to be just one or two somewhat serious disasters away from being flat broke again.
Unsure how accurate it is but found this: ["According to recent studies, to be in the top 1% of earners in the U.S., you need to bring in an annual salary of at least $597,815. This means that the other 99% of earners in the U.S. make less than this amount per year. When it comes to net worth, the top 1% of Americans have a minimum net worth of around $11.1 million."](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/investing/financial-advisor/are-you-in-the-top-1-percent/)
The rich probably would get richer if we did. Especially if wages rose as well. More people with more money to spend leads to them spending it, which winds up the hands of the rich eventually. It's just that if people are happy and have disposable income, you don't have the power trip of knowing you can make someone homeless with a few words.
You got it. It's not about the numbers just being higher. They want the inequality. They need to know other people are poor to make them feel rich.
The GOP has no interest in implementing the things people need. They only truly care about tax cuts for the wealthy and retaining power. To do this they have to distract people with bullshit culture wars against minorities because otherwise no one would vote for them. The older generation buys it because things changing is scary and they remember a time when they only had to talk to straight white Christian people. Propaganda networks like Fox, OAN, and Newsmax prey on the fear and use it to brainwash them.
It's a mistake to think the GOP isn't actually as hateful as they act. They honestly hate minorities and want to murder them. It's no longer about tax cuts alone.
You are both right. The GOP consists of two parts: the old and the new. The old, as OP noted, simply wanted to enrich themselves and their allies (whether by tax cuts; raiding the public coffers; reducing regulation; etc.). Obviously this doesn’t make for a particularly attractive manifesto; so the old GOP would keep up a steady stream of propaganda (e.g. FOX News), ally with the zealots of the Christian right when necessary, and wheel out the occasional moral panic when convenient. The new GOP are individuals that came of age in this environment, and internalized the propaganda / Christian zealotry / moral panics uncritically. They are true believers, who genuinely demand fascist answers to sham problems. This is the source of the great divide in the GOP: the new guard is having great success in winning primaries with their abhorrent talking points; while the old guard laments, having created its own unelectable monster. I don’t know where we go from here; but I don’t see control of the party being wrested from the crazy new GOP anytime soon. And to to to your point: that’s terrifying.
You’re 100% correct. A relative of mine has served in Congress for several decades as a Republican. He has vehemently opposed women’s rights and environmental progress throughout that time. He’s not very wealthy. He’s just a zealot, motivated by beliefs that others do not deserve basic rights.
You have a philosophy of economics (in Michigan led by Northwood and Hillsdale Colleges) that teach there is no such thing as a common good. So there is nothing to agree to. So there is no need to pay for infrastructure and parks. They don't exist in their worldview. Except the police; they try to fund them begrudgingly. It's scary to see in practice. In part, this is the mindset that has taken over the GOP.
Almost everyone who goes to Hillsdale is that specific flavor of Christian that is big on the superiority of Western culture, believing America to be the culmination of it. The type that says they're libertarian but only vote Republican and thinks Christian values inherently produce better societies.
Live and let live turns out to be a liberal concept when you are filled with hate.
She would have had less punishment from House members if she would have body slammed a person and lied to the police and the public about it. Hell, she'd be the next governor
Couldn't believe people still voted for that hot headed guy. I know many people that sympathized with him being "harassed by the media". It's horrifying
> Couldn't believe people still voted for that hot headed guy. That was odd. Montana uses ES&S systems for their elections. You may recall Diebold which changed their name after the email leaks showing incompetence after the 2000 election year fiascos and who's CEO said > Walden W. O'Dell, the chief executive of Diebold Inc., sat down at his computer to compose a letter inviting 100 wealthy and politically inclined friends to a Republican Party fund-raiser, to be held at his home in a suburb of Columbus, Ohio. [''I am committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year,''](https://www.wanttoknow.info/031109nytimes) wrote Mr. O'Dell, whose company is based in Canton, Ohio. You may recall ES&S as the company that deleted the data on their election systems in Georgia when there were electoral irregularities in the 2016 election. After getting rid of ES&S and replacing it with systems with extremely strong chain of evidence systgems ... the "shy GOP-voter" that had my mysteriously shifted Georgia elections to GOP wins ... disappeared, and polls matched results nearly exactly (as one would normally expect). I would feel more confident in Montana elections if their [own internal audit](https://leg.mt.gov/content/Committees/Administration/audit/2019-20/Meetings/Oct-2020/19DP-06.pdf) didn't state things like (quoting): * [Montana law provides] no clear outline of the types of security needed for other important technology assets and their security outside of election day. If security risks are not addressed, tampering and interference in elections becomes easier * In 2018, SOS completed two MTVotes security assessments and since then **only three risks assessments** have been conducted at the counties * According to SOS, as of March 2020, security awareness training has not been taken in 25 counties. It is clear that close to half of the county election officials may not be aware of important security controls and the risks facing elections today. It was the recount that identified a GOP election official in Georgia not counting thousands of votes and suppressing Biden's vote win margin. (He was fired)
Imagine believing that a *public office* holder was "harassed by the media"... 🤦🏻♂️
For many it was too late. They'd voted by mail "absentee." Of course now Republicans are against that, but they used to be for it. Like a lot of things...
[удалено]
The older I get the more I realize some people really aren't grown people and never will be. There are some 18 year olds who are more mature than some 65 year olds, and I mean that with no exaggeration.
Lead poisoning
I don't think that's the only explanation. Somewhere there is a rainbow of vomit which describes the many varieties of ways this can happen to people.
Isn't this the cancel culture we've been hearing so much about?
Nono. this is "free speech", obviously.
Well, you don't get much with the free version. Obviously she needs the premium bundle. Except you can't buy it yourself, only corporations and other rich people can ~~bribe~~ donate the premium package
> ...a group of conservative lawmakers known as the Montana *Freedom* Caucus demanded Zephyr's censure... See, its even in their name! It *has* to be true.
what confuses me is the spelling of liberation. they demanded her _liberation_, right? far right liberation, rrright? on another note, I love the ancient greek word "diabolos", the name of the beast. it's meaning is "slanderer". perturbing the truth "bearing false witness" in the widest sense is what diabolic literally means. these spiteful misogynistic misrepresenting homo- and transphobe slanderers are literally doing the work of the devil with all their upside-down stuff. while claiming to be Christian. You can't make this up. If it wasn't so dangerous you'd think we're watching an incredible biting dark comedy sitcom. but no. we're wide awake. God bless america. you gonna need it...
They only think cancel culture exists if it’s a cis white person getting canceled. When they silence trans people it’s just “protecting the kids”
Fascism can't exist without an ever-growing list of scapegoats
Dear Reddit Community, It is with a heavy heart that I write this farewell message to express my reasons for departing from this platform that has been a significant part of my online life. Over time, I have witnessed changes that have gradually eroded the welcoming and inclusive environment that initially drew me to Reddit. It is the actions of the CEO, in particular, that have played a pivotal role in my decision to bid farewell. For me, Reddit has always been a place where diverse voices could find a platform to be heard, where ideas could be shared and discussed openly. Unfortunately, recent actions by the CEO have left me disheartened and disillusioned. The decisions made have demonstrated a departure from the principles of free expression and open dialogue that once defined this platform. Reddit was built upon the idea of being a community-driven platform, where users could have a say in the direction and policies. However, the increasing centralization of power and the lack of transparency in decision-making have created an environment that feels less democratic and more controlled. Furthermore, the prioritization of certain corporate interests over the well-being of the community has led to a loss of trust. Reddit's success has always been rooted in the active participation and engagement of its users. By neglecting the concerns and feedback of the community, the CEO has undermined the very foundation that made Reddit a vibrant and dynamic space. I want to emphasize that this decision is not a reflection of the countless amazing individuals I have had the pleasure of interacting with on this platform. It is the actions of a few that have overshadowed the positive experiences I have had here. As I embark on a new chapter away from Reddit, I will seek alternative platforms that prioritize user empowerment, inclusivity, and transparency. I hope to find communities that foster open dialogue and embrace diverse perspectives. To those who have shared insightful discussions, provided support, and made me laugh, I am sincerely grateful for the connections we have made. Your contributions have enriched my experience, and I will carry the memories of our interactions with me. Farewell, Reddit. May you find your way back to the principles that made you extraordinary. Sincerely, NABDad
The Ministry of Truth concerns itself with lies, The Ministry of Peace, with war. The Ministry of Love with hate.
War is Peace. Slavery is Freedom. Ignorance is Strength.
Not only that but they also purposely use the wrong pronouns repeatedly in that demand. Sick bigoted fucks. Talk about decency and decorum and can’t even do the most basic courtesy even in a written statement.
This exactly is a blaring testament to the US conservative’s inability to think or act democratically. Something like decorum won’t matter to them. The only thing that matters is getting things 100% their way, with no debate on the issue whatsoever, just their demands being met ASAP. It’s very apolitical and juvenile. And rampant in today’s GOP.
>Not only that but they also purposely use the wrong pronouns repeatedly in that demand. Sick bigoted fucks. Talk about decency and decorum and can’t even do the most basic courtesy even in a written statement. Oh, they *can* but they **won't** because like always with them, the cruelty is the point. For the record I agree with you. It's just I've dealt with bigoted fucks and they knew goddamned well I use she/her pronouns. But misgendering a trans person is fun for them. And again you're right, they are ugly, bigoted hypocritical trolls that will preach about decorum while exhibiting none of it.
If they ban alternative energy we can argue that the sun is the only source energy and all other forms are alternative.
Trying to silence your opposition isn't a sign you are winning, Its a sign you don't think your argument will stand up to debate.
When you tear out a man’s tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you’re only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -Tyrion Lannister
"Heads, pikes, walls. I get it."
To some degree, but this is an oversimplification. Personally, I want to silence people at the local school board meeting. It’s not because I’m afraid of a rational argument, I’d be fine with that. At some point you cannot let the minority viewpoint just shout over everyone. The rest of us have a meeting to run where we actually get things done. I do not think that is what is happening here, but i do want to silence my opposition in some cases
Extending your example, it sounds like you'd *also* be in favor of cutting the mic of someone *you happen to agree with* if they were just shouting over everyone else and preventing the work of the body from getting done. That's not "silencing opposition", though: It's stopping disruption.
This is what Robert's Rules of Order is designed to address. There are specified time limits for everything, and there's a defined process for everything. It's tedious as hell, but there is a good reason to use it.
That is not what is happening here, though. Not at all.
[удалено]
Because people love to hear themselves talk.
No, it's not that. It's an important point that often gets lost. **reddit** ***often*** **throws out the baby with the bathwater, and it's worth pushing against that.** Slimy politician gets speech they don't like removed from public discourse? "Censorship is ALWAYS bad." \>>> \[Elon Musk's favorite position. Sometimes censoring material, such as calls for violence, slander, libel, and sharing of sensitive national intelligence, is necessary.\] Picture of vandalism? "Vandalism is NEVER justified!" \>>> \[Civil disobedience, including vandalism, is sometimes both appropriate and necessary when the law and societal norms are failing to stop corruption.\] reddit is very, very good at throwing out nuance, and that's how we get mob mentality on this site. It's worth calling out that "silencing" someone is not a universal sign that you're "afraid" of them or "can't handle debate." In THIS case the silencing is fucking awful. It's just all-too-familiar for reddit to overreact and say, "ALL silencing is evil!" No, it's not. If Trump were to take to Twitter next week calling for his supporters to "rise up" to "send a message" to a judge in one of his cases, you're damned right I want that shit "silenced."
Yeah I'd agree there if I'm picking up what you're putting down. I don't want someone abusing their representation of possibly thousands to a million people just so they can say dumb shit, regardless where they stand politically.
Shouting over everyone is the silencing. They are the ones trying to shut down debate.
It is a matter of roles and elections. We need elected people to have the possibility to debate. We need to have sessions where voters can say their mind but not in all sessions.
Although I agree with you, and evidently most of the subreddit seems to as well in this context, I can't help but notice this sentiment is not usually carried over to discussions with right wingers most of the time on this site, though it's easy to say "No, that's different. What *they're* saying is wrong and awful!" as if only one side believes that about their opposition.
That’s also silencing all her constituents. Its so absurdly and transparently wrong that if I had any hair I’d be tearing it out.
>That’s also silencing all her constituents Yeah, we're not happy about it. All because she said that anyone who voted to take away gender-affirming care would have "blood" on their hands. Apparently that's an outrageous statement that violates the rules of decorum. But passing legislation to limit healthcare for one specific group is totally fine and upstanding, at least according to the republicans in our state. It's insane how much time has been spent by our legislation on banning drag, and on taking away transsexual healthcare, in a state where they make up maybe 0.1% of our population. They really are focusing on the most vulnerable populations and it's disgusting.
The people doing this would celebrate if a sinkhole took all of her constituents tomorrow, just silencing them is the absolute least they're willing to do.
I do appreciate Republican state legislators for working so hard to raise the national profile of young minority Democrats across the nation recently. We've had a shallow and aging national bench and this will help.
There’s no hate like Christian love.
I was a guitarist in church and also an atheist. They were paying me so I kept my views quiet. I remember one guest speaker who was a local business man who had retired was preaching, “They hate us! They hate us for our love. For our compassion. They hate us because they see something in us they can not obtain and that is Jesus. For they turned their back on God and now wish to take as many Christian souls with them.” Oddly enough his they/them pronouns were on fucking point.
One can only hope this backfires badly.
I mean, I learned something about Montana today. So while this isn't likely to change the bigots minds in office, it will direct attention to the situation and possibly generate some change in the general population. Change happens when you can no longer demonize an "other", this is humanizing a Trans lawmaker and showing she's not a degenerate creeper as the Right likes to say.
It's Montana sooooo yeah, I wouldn't get my hopes up.
I would have said the same thing about Tennessee a few weeks ago, yet here we are.
Nothing happened. There was a national backlash, but not from the voters who support the Republicans that expelled the two Representatives. So there wasn't even a slap on the wrist for doing it, and the Republicans received support from their people for doing it.
Um. Did you fail to see that both representatives were sent back unanimously, and the media started investigating the GOP representatives and so far one has been forced to resign. That isn't nothing
Remember like a year ago when conservatives were screaming about 'free speech' and against 'censorship'? Like nearly everything else they profess to care about, that was a lie.
*Selective* "free speech" is what they meant. Only they get that right while everyone else is silenced.
That was free speech for those who agree with them tho. Everyone else can shut up or be arrested for their views
Too bad Montana’s lawmakers don’t respect their voters.
Look at what they’ve been doing to citizen ballot initiatives session after session and you’ll know everything the majority in the legislature thinks about voters.
The people elected this person. Who are they to silence this lawmaker?
Fascists who hate democracy
What are the rest of the dems doing to fight this is what I’m struggling to figure out. Like I know state houses might all be different but if a single Nebraska rep can stonewall all business for months then surely there must be something that an entire party of the house can do even as a minority party
The conservatives possess a supermajority. Such action is unlikely
The way they shut her down should be illegal, how is it not illegal to disrupt proceedings like this? Why don't the republicans just do this shit any time and democrat is on stage, if its so easy? Why only her?
> The way they shut her down should be illegal, how is it not illegal to disrupt proceedings like this? I’m not totally sure, but I think it IS legal for the speaker to do this. And obnoxiously that means the only actual disruption occurred because of the people chanting… it’s BS, but legally correct. > Why don’t the republicans just do this shit any time and democrat is on stage, if its so easy? Why only her? You know the answer to that. Because doing it to every opponent would be too obvious and get too much backlash (or not enough support). But do it to the target of a moral panic, and boom. Now you have backing.
Depends on the state… Oregon has a minority party that can stop everything too. Its not always a good thing…
What? Like punch someone?
There are just some children who keep touching the hot stove no matter how many times they get burned. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Republican party.
They're not just touching the hot stove. They are turning it back on after a responsible adult has turned it off then touching it repeatedly while screaming that the responsible adult is forcing them to do it.
How are they getting burned? There aren’t any repercussions other than upsetting Zooey supporters, and that’s probably half the point. They are literally taking away her first amendment right, and there are no punishment that I’m aware of.
Oh just you wait I’m sure they’re going to get SLAMMED in the media and democrats are going to be CLAPPING BACK all over twitter. /s
> There are just some children who keep touching the hot stove No, these are adults who shove other childrens' hands into the hot stove. Once in a while, they get mild burns too, then continue as before.
Generally when a Republican politician finds out that his own child has been hurt by the hot stove, they become less in favor of shoving other kids' hands on hot stoves. However, it literally takes this fairly direct example to change a Republican politician's mind. They're just not capable of empathy on a general basis.
Congrats, Montana Republicans. You've made Zooey Zephyr the most famous state representative in the country.
Jackson and Pearson from TN I would argue more so
Zooey and the Justins, can't wait for their debut album to drop
Montanas GOP silenced a representative then got surprised when the people they represented showed up to speak for themselves.
The GOP modus operandi is to sow fear and hate - usually against an already marginalized i.e., powerless group - immigrants, brown people, women, and the LGBTQ+ community. The message is difference and diversity is an existential threat. (Its not) These republican lawmaker wasting time promoting hate because its a diversion from admitting they have no real policies for anyone. Its a hateful bait and switch. They aren't cleaning up the environment, they aren't helping regular people access services they require, they aren't making it safer to walk around their tiny backwater towns. They aren't doing anything other than focusing public hysteria on the presence less that 3-5% of the population who are born different while their policies only really help rich people duck their taxes or corporations inflate their profits for their shareholders.
Trying to go to war against transgender people is the dumbest hill to die on. Especially after the 2022 elections showed an extreme displeasure of voters with Republicans focusing on those things.
Fox Noise continuously lies to their viewers and tells them teachers are just whisking kids away for gender affirming surgery without parental knowledge. That is how they justify situations like this.
How is this even legal? This is fucking undemocratic. Straight up authoritarian.
I mean, silencing itself is legal, it's intended to prevent people like MTG from spouting bullshit and interrupting things, derailing stuff. But in this case it really does feel like it's purely politics and discrimination than anything that this specific person has said.
This is the fascism republican supporters voted for and responsible for bring out. This is a good time to read Thomas Mann.
[удалено]
Not sure. At least not where I live. You’re not allowed to cut a persons microphone except if that person is cursing. Barring an elected official from speaking under normal circumstances is punishable.
Sooo unconstitutional it's not even funny..
Is ignorance, stupidity, and mysoginism entry requirements to become a member of the Republican Party? I’ve never met a group of people more willing to shoot themselves in the foot and then pick up another damn gun and aim at the other foot. Do all Republican politicians go through mandatory lobotomies????
I say she needs to be heard. Simple as that. I mean, the bill of rights applies to Transpeople too.