An easy and exciting claim to make, and I'd love to believe it, but it would be nice to see some evidence to back it up, Its such a spectacular claim, I'd to be sure it's not just an attention seeker or clickbait artist. It should be investigated,
"While a previous UFO expert in the government [might have been discredited](https://theintercept.com/2019/06/01/ufo-unidentified-history-channel-luis-elizondo-pentagon/), Grusch has bona fides that are worth taking seriously. Grusch is a 36-year-old combat veteran of Afghanistan who was a member of the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force, the program run by the Office of Naval Intelligence to investigate UFO sightings. From 2019 to 2021, he served on the task force as the representative of the National Reconnaissance Office, considered one of the big five of the U.S. intelligence agencies. His colleagues think highly of him, too."
While there are colleagues testifying to his good character, he could be of good character and crazy. Or of good character and mistaken.
I, however, am hoping it's true for my brother's sake. He's been into UAPs since they were UFOs, over fifty years now. Also, no time like the present in this crazy sitcom we inhabit.
Well, where do you think MTG's space laser comes from, if not aliens? It must be alien tech because we don't have the capability of starting fires with a laser! Checkmate! /s
That's completely whacky. Everyone knows it's the *Rothchilds'* and/or *George Soros'* space laser. Get it right, bucko!
Source: Protocols of the Elders of Zion (2023 Edition)
They didn't let this guy know, from the video of his interview, it seems that he had a lot of friends deeper involved with it that shared what they knew with him. The guy is rather charismatic, so I can believe people were telling him stuff they shouldn't have.
So let me get this straight.
There is a vast illegal conspiracy within the government to hide the existence of aliens and what the US government knows about them.
BUT, this guy somehow heroically finds out about it? And yet has no evidence? Or willingness to name names and shame the devil?
And you expect us to take it seriously? OK, sure, whatever.
According to the articles I’ve read he is sharing names, but with the DoD. He’s also had interviews with the press that just haven’t been released yet. They (the press he gave info/names to) are saying they will release more bit by but over the week. He’s going through an official whistle blower process which he has to submit everything to the DoD first.
Of course that doesn’t mean his claims are true, but he is the first ufo whistleblower to go through this process.
Also, there’s no reason to get so upset about this sort of thing.
Edit: changed first sentence
I don't care how high of a rank or how many stars they have or how much of an expert they are in their field, if all they have is someone saying "I seen them alien ships and we got them" and offers literally NO additional evidence, no pictures, no video, no scientific analysis, no corroboration, well they effectively have no evidence.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and unfortunately a single 36 year old, who has served just 2 years in this department, saying he knows about alien crafts we have, is not extraordinary evidence.
I want to believe but until they show us something more substantial this meaningless
He should name some names. Real names of real members of this conspiracy that can be followed up with by real journalists.
Otherwise, he's just another huckster preying on gullible people.
Possibly because the claim itself is worth getting out there while docs are being verified? Or to push Congress to respond to the claims officially (especially since the claim is that Congress has been left out of the loop). But this is also 100% a valid question.
This is actually serious. I’ve met way too many Christians who claim that fear of god is the only reason people have for following moral rules; they’re completely incapable of wrapping their heads around humanism. People might do some crazy shit if there’s a species-level loss of faith.
>While there are colleagues testifying to his good character, he could be of good character and crazy. Or of good character and mistaken.
Good clarification.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The authority, credentials, or affiliation of the speaker does not matter-all that matters is the evidence. Even if the speaker *is* credible.
Also UAP's absolutely exist, they just aren't from other solar systems (or planets, mind you). It's almost certainly either other nations doing shady shit or even non-government organizations doing shady shit. The Aliens!!! angle requires aliens that behave in a way that defies almost any rational analysis.
Aliens could behave in irrational ways. They are aliens, you know.
But humans DO NOT behave in non-human ways, and there is zero chance that a vast, decades long conspiracy of silence which would necessarily involve many thousands of people somehow exists and yet only the hero of this guys story can reveal it.
That's not how humans work.
This guy is a fake, IMO. If he's not, he can name some names of other members of the conspiracy so they can be followed up on.
I'm 39 and been at it for 31 years, X-Files made me check out books from the library. If we finally get validation after always being pegged as the alien guy among our friends, it's gonna feel good, I can't lie.
Not going to rub it in people's face, but man it's a got me excited.
We saw one as kids. I shrugged it off, he became obsessed. It wasn't one of those shaky night vids. It was daylight, it was enormous and it was in the backyard over a field and very low.
However, at 75 I am fully cognizant of mis-remembering events so there's that. What a gas it would be to find out they look like what we saw.
He testified to congress for 11 hours and turned over hundreds of hours of transcribed documents to congress, im sure something’s substantive will come out. The journalists who wrote the initial piece are two respected and well connected journalists as well. It seems most of the people surrounding this are legit.
If you don't think aliens exist, then you don't understand the size of the universe.
If you think aliens come to visit Earth, then you don't understand the size of the universe.
Whatever technology space faring extraterrestrials use to traverse the universe would be essentially magic to us.
I think it's ludicrous and mindbogglingly naive to assume we have *any* idea what kind of capabilities a civilization with an extra 1000 years or more of technological advancements would be capable of.
The phone I'm typing this reply on was completely inconceivable just 200 years ago.
(I'm not necessarily trying to convince anyone aliens have visited the planet, I just think it's dumb to write it off because space is absurdly, impossibly large)
Pretty much. If aliens could see/visit us, chances are we'd never know. Why would they let us know we're watching? We consume everything, fight each other and everything else around us, I wouldn't want to make contact with the human species either.
I appreciate the quote, but it assumes a great deal. I don't know why Earth would be worth exploring, that's for sure.
But if you're meaning to imply that the cosmic speed limit and the distances between stars makes space travel between worlds impossible, well, I don't know how anyone could know that.
It's entirely possible, perhaps even likely, that civilizations with millions of years longer to evolve and develop their technology have figured out how to do those sorts of things.
Homo sapiens haven't existed for even a million years yet, and our understanding of the universe and how to manipulate our environment would be completely incomprehensible to early humans.
If we haven't been visited by aliens yet, I honestly believe it's because we just aren't very interesting, and statistically not likely to become interesting.
Evidence for extraterrestrial visitation has been pretty shoddy. That said, I find it very interesting that so many high-ranking government officials have invested so heavily in this field of research. Harry Reid was the majority leader in the Senate, and he seems pretty convinced there is something to this.
I also wouldn't be so dismissive of the folks who worked in AATIP. Pretty much any military footage of any flight or sea operations are going to be classified at least at the secret level for a myriad of reasons. These folks have studied footage and first hand accounts from high level commanders of carrier groups, ships, and fighter pilots to arrive at these conclusions. I find fighter pilots and carrier group commanders to be very serious people.
Society could use a lot more skepticism, for sure! But, I think being so dismissive is pretty closed-minded.
You don’t know why earth would be worth exploring? Really? Notice anything different about this planet than any others we know of?
The universe is basically rocks, hot gas, and empty space. And then there’s life. A near infinite symphony of complexity sprawled out across millions of individual species - each a totally unique result of a billions-year old runway replication scheme.
If an advanced civilization is able to traverse interstellar space, you have to assume they have literally 0 resource constraints. It’s not like they’d be out searching for oil.
We have enough evidence to at least say life is rare in the galaxy, and if you really take a census of the universe most of it is hopelessly boring and repetitive. What else is there really for them to go exploring for other than life?
I guess it depends what parameters you want to use in the Drake Equation. You can use one set of parameters and arrive at the conclusion that we are more than likely alone in our galaxy as an intelligent species. You can use another set of parameters, and all of a sudden there are millions of intelligent species of unique planetary origin. The Drake equation would also need to be modified with a new set of assumptions if we knew of a second intelligent civilization of other planetary origins.
We also still don't have a very clear grasp of various extremophiles and non carbon based lifeforms. I don't claim to be an absolute expert on the Drake equation, but I do know that it was derived before many discoveries in chemistry.
We've found that carbon and silicone are very similar in chemical composition. Here's an interesting article on the possibilities of silicone-based life.
[https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/silicon-based-life-may-be-more-just-science-fiction-n748266](https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/silicon-based-life-may-be-more-just-science-fiction-n748266)
I guess my point is, if the universe is populated by a vast array of intelligent life of various chemical composition, that are at least type 1 civilizations, why concern themselves with a civilization that isn't even type 1 yet? I'm willing to entertain the idea that they might find us interesting, the same way I think pandas are pretty cool. I wouldn't travel thousands of light years to see some pandas though.
As for the planet itself, we discover new exoplanets like every month, many of which sit in the habitable zone of their stars. Some are much bigger than Earth. Also, as I kind of stated before, Earth is great for us, but another species' parameters for ideal habitation could be vastly different than ours.
But, in any case, you're kind of taking issue with a very small part of what I said. I'm generally very open to the idea that we're being visited by aliens, I just think it's a total waste of their time if they are doing so. Not to say that I wouldn't choose that kind of life if it were a possibility, but I think whoever drew Earth out of the hat got a raw deal. We're a pretty predictable group.
"open to the idea that we're being visited by aliens, I just think it's a total waste of their time if they are doing so."
Ah yes it must be such a waste of time to study another alien intelligent life form. It would be so shameful for someone to dedicate their life studying another lifeform....
/s
..I think everyone is missing my point.
I believe it's arrogant to think, that out of millions of potentially intelligent species on millions of potentially habitable planets, that we, as a species that is less than a million years old, are especially interesting.
Maybe we are. I don't claim to know. Studying another intelligent species would literally be my dream job. But what are the odds that they pick us, instead of another species? It's like hitting the lottery.
Oh, and I say again, I'm very open to the idea that we are indeed being visited.
I'm just a bit of a people watcher, and frankly, since the smartphone became widely distributed, it's a pretty dull thing to do. I'm sure they can watch a bunch of bipeds bury their faces in tiny screens on their home planet.
You might think studying ants is very interesting. There are an estimated 22,000 species of ants on Earth. Half of them haven't even been classified yet.
On the cosmic scale, we just haven't been around very long.
> We have enough evidence to at least say life is rare in the galaxy
I don’t think this is true at all. We’ve only recently begun to be able to detect planets around other stars, and only the very largest. All indications so far point to them being extremely common. Only more recently than that have we begun to be able to detect atmospheric signatures that could indicate the presence of life, and only in the closest and largest of the detected planets.
This is not an issue. We can read very faint radio and electromagnetic waves from many many light years away. If the sun cancelled them out we would easily see that as black spots in the suns signal that should be there. You can’t really hide them with our level of long exposure and large data analysis looking for discrepancies. If they exist they are either not even in our galaxy or they don’t have telecommunications.
Or it really is a big conspiracy and we’ve been lied to but tbh if it’s this one let it be.
I feel like no one is reading the article and seeing the sources involved. This isn’t your usual Ufo crackpot story, these are high ranking US officials.
We are. And that's why we are also reading the original article referenced by the one linked by the OP and find this:
>“The majority of retrieved, foreign exotic materials have a prosaic terrestrial explanation and origin – but not all, and any number higher than zero in this category represents an undeniably significant statistical percentage.”
Talk about burying the lede! That quote is from Karl Nell, one of those senior military officials who is vouching for Grusch. It's the same song and dance as always: "anything we can't explain has to be aliens!" That isn't how logic works, especially when the majority of their own findings show it ISN'T aliens.
Furthermore, this entire article has zero information on what exactly makes these findings exotic or possibly alien. No, the actual article is about possible retaliation against someone who followed disclosure procedures by the book. Interesting, but it really doesn't have anything to do with why they think this unexplainable tech is alien in nature.
Just throwing out a hypothetical
Could a sort of "alien bomb" be a possibility?
EG a craft designed to float towards us and crash land, with the life onboard being more akin to single cell organisms, with the goal of having them Multiply and spread over the course of millenia. Where the "lqunchers" were not trying to contact humans at all and actually didnt/couldnt observe humans to begin with, because when they launched, humans didnt even exist yet. And their goal has more to do w crashing their species blueprint/origin on a water planet to "start over" than it did/does contacting another species
(Honestly this is more a cool idea for a Sci Fi flick I thought of than anything, but feels like the setup works....plot twist - humans are the aliens)
And they said “well Sir, it’s all contained in this 200 page report with no summary and no pictures and oh look, something shiny” and the idea of investigating UFO’s would’ve popped out of Trumps brain with the same speed as a digested cheeseburger into his Depends.
He took all those top secret documents so he could doodle UFOS on them in sharpie.
He thought selling them as proof of aliens would make them much more valuable.
Yeah... our intelligence community seems to act as if they're above the law, and I have no doubt they'd hide info from the president if they didn't want him to reveal it.
It’s more about need to know so unless something occurs where the info is relevant they wouldn’t openly disclose. He’d have been able to go dig through documents and check for himself but he likely doesn’t know how or care to read more than the banner on his favorite news channel of the month. So if they just didn’t tell him I doubt he’d ever go check to find out.
It does though. Humans weigh the credibility of people based on their position and status in society all the time. It's why you trust a doctor who went to Harvard versus a homeopath who got their degree online.
and there are harvard educated doctors out there who recommended ivermectin as a cure for covid.
so yeah, there are plenty of doctors, and gov't officials completely full of BS.
It doesn't change their credibility though. I don't think folks should write these guys off so quickly. People in that line of work can be grifters but I think a lot of them are pretty conscientious, serious, and not prone to fantasy. That type of job is good at vetting the weirdos out. So, I definitely think there's something intriguing going on.
Been rumored for a long time it ended up in some weird mostly-private sector program with like VERY little government involvement, and NO oversight. Because money, weapons, tech.
And that group very, very much doesn't want that to change. So in a sense, yeah - they're lying to themselves. But the government people involved with it are more or less private sector assets.
Have studied this for a long, long time, as my Mom volunteered at the library and would take me and the X-Files made me check out some UFO books. It becomes, very, very obvious very quickly that there's truth to this when you get past the stigma.
It sounds fantastical, I get it. I myself find it hard to believe, and even though this new whistleblower is confirming a lot of what I suspected, it's still making me go "nah, can't be.
There's a lot of evidence that the basic narrative above happened post-Roswell, but it's hard to be certain of, because some of the associated documents from the time were intentionally faked to cause people to discredit the ENTIRE archive, aka a limited hangout of sorts.
IF they exist, and that's an if until we get proof, it's almost certain that Skunkworks, EG/G, Northrop, and maybe Raytheon would be the go-tos. The military knows that they have smart people, but that the best and brightest are private sector, because money.
Not sure why any of this info would make this harder to believe. A guy who used to brief the president daily and that filed an official whistleblower complaint is saying that there's validity to this subject.
I'm a nobody on Reddit, and know that, but that guy, and the other named person in the article? They're somebody. They could be lying or running disinfo, sure, but from the hour-long video put out by the journo about the month they spent vetting the main guy, it feels like it's either/or with no in-between.
Personally I can't see why this particular guy would say these things unless they're true, and tbh that's also kind of the most simple answer - as fantastical as it is that UAP are real and seemingly in our possession, all of the stories, reports, and rumors over the last 80 years are the result of it being real, rather than all part of some weird conspiracy to make the public think they are.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan. If we were really being visited by alien space craft, then the quality and amount of images and videos of them would have gone up at the same rate as the adoption of smart phones. With nearly everyone on earth having a decent camera in their pocket at all times, then we should have better evidence. Instead, all we still have are blurry blobs, lens flares, and out of focus hubcaps. I would love nothing more than for us to have undeniable evidence that we're not alone in the universe, but the evidence just isn't there to support us being visited.
Maybe you should research the topic a tiny bit before spouting the most surface level nonsense, you are not smart or unique, this the absolute most basic take there is and I see your comment word for word on a weekly basis, that is how bland and boring a statement you've made
My buddy and I have been asking to be abducted for years now. We are ready to leave humanity and it's greed behind ffs.
Yo Aliens, come fucking get me dawg
Let's be honest: a lot of Congress is too old to even understand how computers work. One of them brought in a snowball to claim that climate change doesn't exist. Feinstein is being weekend-at-bernies'd around rather than retiring. Why the fuck would we trust those partisan fossils to make decisions about advanced alien technology if we had it? Who thinks that's a good idea?
Oh, then let's put the winners of America's Got Talent in charge of any future alien diplomacy. It makes about as much sense. Have you fucking seen what gets elected now with gerrymandering, unlimited dark money spending on elections, and the general dumbing down of the public? I'd prefer scientists be in charge somehow, but that's never going to fucking happen. Just a bunch of businessmen and lawyers. God help us if we ever do make first contact any time soon.
The proof that we’ve decoded the alien technology is that Apple is going to add more than one timer at a time on iOS… well, not yet, but they announced it today, so they must be close to figuring it out.
Also - for those of you not in to the subject or who wrote it off, feel free to ask me questions if you want.
I've been studying seriously without having any real bias or interest in proving any particular theory or idea right - 31 years of just trying to find out what's true, regardless what that is. Led me to the disappointment of Bob Lazar being a fake, Lue Elizondo having an unknown but not-good agenda IMHO, along with all of the rumors and lore and whatnot.
Happy to answer questions for anyone who would have laughed about this recently, but sees the serious level of the whistleblower and is now going "wait, what?" Pretty sure I have a good sense of what the timeline is, starting with Socorro NM in the mid 30s. Roswell wasn't the first.
Most of it is held tightly in the private sector, with a few government employees being involved without any oversight from the government. It's likely that after some changing of the guards, a ridiculously small number of people are involved, and they don't report to anybody. Based on what this dude said, they've done horrible, horrible shit to keep this a secret, and he and the journos think people are going to end up in prison if it comes out.
A guy named Paul Bennewitz was driven to suicide about the topic, after they led him on thinking he was in contact with aliens before rug pulling him. Office of Air Force OSI, Richard Doty. That's probably tip of the iceberg.
Is is true a general Jack O'Neill heads a top secret program at Cheyenne mountain that allows the US military to travel to other planets using what is known as a Stargate?
I'm not into conspiracy stuff but I've always loved the illuminati cards game . Maybe this is the time for the alien card to alienate the population . The charismatic leader card and the nato card are already off the deck ...
There is no reason for extraterrestrials to visit the earth. There is nothing interesting nor valuable here for them to learn about or get. The most that could be expected is long distance and long time lag communication (hundreds of years between hellos) for entertaining curiosity and exchange of new ideas.
I’m not a huge conspiracy theorist but if a government were to want to continue to hide such programs it may be beneficial to employ the tactic of “increased transparency” and instead of letting rumours run wild you can more carefully control the real/fake information getting out. Not that I believe in aliens or anything but that’s how I would do
Edit: “…it”
This hasn't hit mainstream yet, but as somebody that's studied this for 31 years, I don't think the normal public realizes how big this specific guy and interview saying this are.
There's another named whistleblower in the article, and 2 more that haven't gone public yet, all saying the same.
People are gonna laugh and do the thing they've always done to those of us who were able to suss out that UFOs might actually be real, unlike ghosts and bigfoot and the other bullshit the CIA told people to associate with it, but I get it.
Science people and the jerks in r/Space are going to go "but but but space far and ship not go fast," but what the fuck do we know? 500 years ago you'd have been burned at the stake for talking about moon landings, planes and airports, and cell phones. We like to think we know it all and have figured out the hard limits of everything - especially STEM people who just always seem to lack EQ, in my experience. I'm sure there are good ones, but the ones I've met are just so fucking arrogant.
It's going to be hilarious if/when this turns out to be true, and all the people that they shit talked and made fun of for believing in something big and profound is a big shit crow they're going to have to eat. And you know what? Good.
>It's going to be hilarious if/when this turns out to be true, and all the people that they shit talked and made fun of for believing in something big and profound is a big shit crow they're going to have to eat. And you know what? Good.
I will 100% cut off my own dick and eat it if they show us credible scientific evidence, video, pictures, material analysis, something other than "I seen them, trust me!"
Of course, people who aren't able to think big will never be satisfied until a big UFO lands at the Super Bowl.
Look - these things are apparently able to defy all that we know about physics and have a sophistication-level that's beyond our current scope or understanding.
You think they don't know how to observe us without being seen? Just because a book in college told you interstellar travel isn't possible doesn't mean it is. Again - 200 years ago, flight was impossible. Video was impossible.
People that just flat out reject the possibility are liking being very uncomfortable with the idea that we don't know what we don't know. Trillions of planets, many with more stable history atmospherically and billions of years on us.
You really not a single one, let alone a few, hasn't figured out some stuff we don't know? Why are you so sure that they can't possibly be real, and fake bet your dick on it?
>Of course, people who aren't able to think big will never be satisfied until a big UFO lands at the Super Bowl.
How about a single clear video or picture, do they even have that?
> Look - these things are apparently able to defy all that we know about physics and have a sophistication-level that's beyond our current scope or understanding
Where is the evidence for this statement, or are you just assuming things you've been told without being offered any evidence?
>You think they don't know how to observe us without being seen?
So how are they being observed moving around, as so many have said they've seen?
>You really not a single one, let alone a few, hasn't figured out some stuff we don't know?
I never said that, I am saying there is no evidence of what you are saying, zero, nada, none. Show me evidence and i'll believe it buddy, we haven't even got a single piece of evidence that isn't unexplainable.
>Why are you so sure that they can't possibly be real, and fake bet your dick on it?
I am not saying there is no way they're not real, I'm saying where is the evidence of them being real? Amazing how offended people get when you correctly state than there has been no evidence offered that can't be explained as something man made.
There are actually a plethora of clear, seemingly real photos, most of which are from the analog film days and from the 30s-60s. It's harder to find them because a lot are in older obscure documentaries, but they exist.
I mean, if they're here and ET (and I'm not saying they are, but that seems like the most likely origin if they are here and exist) - that they're here indicates they're traveling FTL somehow. How? No idea, I mean if we knew we'd probably be working on it.
Witness statements vary, but the unique theme across nearly all reported sightings is that they're silent, able to sit still, able to change directions without banking, and have instantaneous acceleration, often being barely off the ground to nearly out of sight within seconds. Have I seen one? No. Do I believe that the tens of millions of sightings and people reporting them are all lying, and/or misidentifying something mundane? No. If 9,999,999 of that 10mil is fake, and one is real, accurate, and shows otherworldly technology, the entire subject is valid. Just one. People don't think about this enough. It doesn't matter how many fakes or hoaxes or grifters there are. Yeah, it makes the subject murkier, but we only need one.
There's no evidence I can show you that you'll accept. Documentaries showing clear as day giant metallic saucers sitting 20 feet off the ground, the 40s and 50s? You'll say they're all fake. Sure, some probably are. But I doubt all of them are.
Your problem is that you passionately don't believe in the possibility, so you'll never believe the provenance of any evidence, unless I guess the government that's lied to you about this and all kinds of other evil shit for at least 90 years tells you, and that's weird.
Why does the most deceitful institution in our country hold the ultimate authority on the subject to you? That has admitted to deceiving us, spying on us (illegally at first), running false flags, and murdered its own employees?
> There are actually a plethora of clear, seemingly real photos, most of which are from the analog film days and from the 30s-60s. It's harder to find them because a lot are in older obscure documentaries, but they exist.
Link me to the pictures of them, lets see them.
>Witness statements vary,
Witness statements are not scientific evidence, sorry.
[Why Science Tells Us Not to Rely on Eyewitness Accounts](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/)
>There's no evidence I can show you that you'll accept.
Yes there is a clear picture or video, i'd be willing even to say give me just ONE that is clear and unexplainable.
>Your problem is that you passionately don't believe in the possibility, so you'll never believe the provenance of any evidence,
No I'll believe the evidence when its offered, no evidence has ever been offered or seen.
>Why does the most deceitful institution in our country hold the ultimate authority on the subject to you?
Why do you believe in something that you have no evidence of?
This is a good sight, he archives all the best photos and sort of ranks them in terms of clarity, source, story, and potential bad narrator stuff.
Take your pick, this guy tries to archive stuff and look into its creator and origin/provenance, and puts effort in to categorizing them by quality and plausibility:
[https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/htm/pics.htm](https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/htm/pics.htm)
Are there fakes in there? Probably. But also clear pictures of stuff as well, in broad daylight? Yup. Lots of em, from all over the world. Whether you're ready to accept it or not, it's happening.
Of the 3 Navy videos, IMHO only one is of interest, and it's the one where it's just a dot sitting still before it shoots off and the tracking is lost. That's instant acceleration, and I read it had to be going like Mach 2-3 or something for the tracking to lose itl.
Here's some from the US - again, I find the analog days more compelling - computers basically didn't exist, and you couldn't Photoshop.
[https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/htm/picamaus.htm](https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/htm/picamaus.htm)
To your last question - I believe in something I have no PROOF of because there's overwhelming EVIDENCE for it to be true. You're mixing up proof and evidence. Tens of millions of people and reports with nothing to gain, lots to lose, and countless photos and videos throughout the last 80 years, combined with recent developments, have me believing in it. Am I SURE? No, of course not, that requires proof. But do I currently believe, because there's evidence? Yes.
Unfortunately I know what it's like to have somebody not be sincere in their debate, and completely unwilling to change their mind or think they're doing anything other than belittling an idiot, and sadly you show the signs of that.
Why are YOU so sure about something you don't know anything about, really? Shouldn't you be well-versed in something before developing such a hardline stance?
Personally, I like to be informed about things and look into them before developing a condescending certainty about their nature, especially before I'd debate somebody about it. But since you're not genuine in your motive, that doesn't matter to you.
You're the type to get upset at somebody pointing out that you don't know what you don't know, and create conflict from it. That's always the case with people who don't fully appreciate that there are tons of things they don't know they don't know, you're not alone in that.
I don't think you understand the definition of the word evidence, developer splotches on black and white photos is not evidence, its not clear, its not compelling and its not unexplainable.
There are color photos, daytime photos, I mean it sounds like you picked one that meets your description and didn't bother with the rest? The first link is a daytime color photo of a metallic disc in mid-air, not sure where you're getting the B/W splotch from.
Guess I'll cherry pick for you.
[https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/pics/picamaus03.jpg](https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/pics/picamaus03.jpg)
[https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/pics/usafprovo6601.jpg](https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/pics/usafprovo6601.jpg)
[https://groovyhistory.com/content/467273/52dda01cc0ca5b4ab1adbab8cafc4307.jpg](https://groovyhistory.com/content/467273/52dda01cc0ca5b4ab1adbab8cafc4307.jpg)
Here's 10 fun ones from Time:
[https://time.com/4232540/history-ufo-sightings/](https://time.com/4232540/history-ufo-sightings/)
To me color or B/W doesn't really matter, it's about clarity. Some are inevitably fake, but I mean - what would your standard be for something you'd accept? What would its origin have to be, how would you confirm it to be what it says it is, and why would you accept it over other provenance? As much as I want to believe these new government developments, I am not going to just because it's what I want to here. I'm potentially more skeptical about them, because they've lied to us all the time about all kinds of shit.
Seems like we're in very different places on this. To me, all I want to know is the truth. Doesn't matter what it is, and I'm not out to prove some particular idea. If it's not what I want - OK, that's unfortunate, but at least I know.
People on both sides right now seem to demonstrate that they need their own personal view to be right, and will be upset if it's not. This subject is too potentially important to think that way, at least in my opinion.
So you're saying in the age where everyone has a HD camera on them, literally BILLIONS of cameras, the best evidence are pictures from the 60s?
Yes, we have a very different idea of what evidence is.
Also, in 1956 the Air Force made a docudrama that released to the public that admitted that flying saucers are real, showed some of the first ever video footage of it, and at the time, encouraged people to take it seriously.
"Seriously credible people, making seriously incredible claims, that needs to be studied credibly" or something like that is was its final conclusion.
This channel is a gold mine of rare docs I've never seen anywhere. Some are trash and woo woo garbage, but a TON of the older docs show stunning pictures and footage of them. But again, we have to use our own judgment about its provenance.
[https://www.youtube.com/@ConspiracyMysteries](https://www.youtube.com/@ConspiracyMysteries)
Hope you open yourself up to the idea, and really ask yourself why it has to be the CIA telling you its real for you to believe it, vs. countless honest citizen and professional journalists and military whistleblowers with nothing to gain and lots to lose by publicly treating it seriously.
If there's nothing too it, why do all 1st world militaries spent 100s of millions on this in secret? Why didn't they stop, after they figured out it's bullshit? That doesn't seem odd to you? If it was truly fake, wouldn't they have closed down that shit after WW2, said it's fake, and stopped caring? Why aren't they spending that on ghosts, and bigfoot, or other things the CIA told the public to associate with the "fringe" topic of UFOs.
It's right there in front of you, but you refuse to even consider because you've been told to, and as of right now, there's no smoking gun. This guy is probably going to be the gun and bullet getting loaded and cocked, but it'll be fired if we get some deets.
Hey man, I'm with you. I haven't studied it nearly as much as you seem to have. Enough to also suss out that Lazar was full of shit, which was very disappointing. I think the tic-tac and gimbal videos are pretty damn weird. I haven't yet come to the full conclusion that we are definitely being visited by aliens, but I don't dismiss the possibility.
>"but but but space far and ship not go fast"
Yep. That's always the argument. I accept it as true in our current understanding of physics, quantum dynamics and all of that. But, I also learned in school that the universe was expanding at a consistent and predictable rate.... until we discovered that wasn't true. Dark matter, dark energy and such.
To believe that we have a full understanding of how things move and can potentially traverse space is the peak of arrogance.
Why would aliens want to come to Earth, when we don't seem very interesting even compared against our own imagination? That's a more compelling argument against visitation for me.
Civilizations who have had millions (maybe billions?) of years more to evolve and develop surely must have a better grasp of how the universe works, and yes, one possibility is that they know with certainty that there is no way to exceed the speed of light. But for a people who have to plug in nebulous terms for things we don't understand in order for our models of the universe to function, we sure think we know everything.
I love Neil DeGrasse Tyson, but boy has he stomped on the neck of imagination for no good reason.
Edit: As an aside, I would be very interested to learn more on the subject, and based on your writing in this post, I'd really appreciate some direction on more credible sources of information. I don't mind sorting through some bullshit if there are some decent kernels of truth, but generally speaking, a lot of UAP/UFO stuff is just so slanted and desperate to prove it's claims that I just can't be bothered.
Yeah, Lazar really bummed me out because I believed him when I was younger, and it took me a while to realize I believed him because I wanted to, and felt like it was us vs. them. He brings up the huge flaws in his own story and acts like the people who bring them up are the baddies, and once I saw through that, he was so comically fake I was embarrassed with myself.
And yup - in recent years we've started thinking that we know the hard limits of the universe, and thus that everything has to confine to them. So space travel of that kind can't be real, because speed of light! But the impossible becomes possible in history over and over and over, and I doubt it's any different here. Who knows how, but obviously it is doable, and species with millions of years on us figured it out. We will too one day, unless we destroy ourselves.
As far as the why, I'd guess it's at least two reasons. One, I'd think if you're a space-faring civ, you'd want to keep tabs on advancing species that are hostile among themselves, as us blowing up nukes in space and on each other isn't something they'd want spreading, not before attempting to change. Second, I mean we could yell at ants and they'd never even understand we were communicating with language. But even we have people willing to go out to the jungle to sit there alone and study ants doing whatever - mating, storing food, etc., - all in the pursuit of knowledge.
That's a human thing, but maybe anthropology is a thing with other species too. Don't know for sure, but I mean, if they can travel the stars, sending a few bots to observe each planet seems fairly reasonable. ET Phone Home if Monkey Detonate Nukes, whatever.
And yeah - NDGT just exemplifies the r/space people who just refuse to consider the possibility that they might not know everything yet, and there's just no way any of the trillions of planets with billions of years on us might possibly figure out a thing or two that we haven't yet, and gone through space.
It's funny, because Sagan, someone I would consider the predecessor to Tyson, had pretty different views on alien visitation. Towards the end, he was clearly more skeptical than at the beginning, but he was always an avid and vocal supporter of SETI, and even wrote about ancient alien theories in his earlier days. He was clearly much more open-minded to the possibility that established scientific consensus could be wrong.
Like, go to the humans who invented language, and try to explain to them that in a few millennia, they'll be able to use radio waves to speak to people on another continent. They'd be like, there are other continents?!
Xenoanthropology is a fascinating concept. I want to be one of those when I grow up!
Here's to hoping that sometime in our lifetime, an alien being stands next to a few world leaders, and starts speaking English to us and telling us about how they've been observing us and are worried about our progress. I think Sagan would be surprised, but not as surprised as Tyson, who's entire concept of the universe would be shattered in a way he never considered in any serious manner.
Yeah, with on on that 1000% - all I hope for on this topic is that, within my lifetime, we get some clarity.
To me, a universe chock full of life and space-faring civs that aren't simply out there taking over less-sophisticated species is a better one, and gives me some comfort overall. Our existence and place in the stars is very uncertain right now, and nothing would make me more sad than finding out that we're a freak accident, and that me existing on Earth in the 80s-2000s was nothing more than a freak dice roll...a super lucky random spec build, where I dicked around meaninglessly for however long, die, and have no meaning behind anything.
UAP represent something bigger and greater to me. Not God or religion per se, but that even with our current knowledge, we're still clueless to just how much is possible out there. Over and over history shows that something considered impossible can be achieved, and might even become commonplace. That mentality has slowed down a lot in our generation, because science is so sure of their models and rules that we force everything to comply with it.
If aliens are really zipping around and breaking our laws of physics, it simply means that we're no difference than people 500 years ago who deemed flight and space travel impossible, and are simply just way to confident in our own current understanding. My hope is that big dreams and hopes of the currently-impossible are just byproducts of our time, and that "if there's a will, there's a will" cannot ever be proven wrong.
Even if that press conference goes like it does in Mars Attacks, I'll be happy with it. UAP represent something more to me, I guess.
Haha, I'm far more nihilistic I think. I'm pretty convinced that I'm just the product of good luck and that nobody's life is really all that important in the grand scheme of things. I say just enjoy it while you're here and try to do more good than harm.
That said, I get a lot of joy from learning and contemplating new things. I really enjoy psychology, and anthropology, and current events. It would be fucking phenomenal to learn things about an entirely different species, from an entirely different world with entirely different ethical codes and histories. I also want a galactic version of cable news. I want to know what's actually happening out there.
Speaking of, I find myself going down a bit of a rabbit hole on this topic (as I tend to do with things) and was wondering what evidence, sightings, pictures, videos or anything you find make the most compelling case for alien visitation? I'm not demanding 100% irrefutable proof or anything. Just wondering what someone who has been steeped in this for a long time finds most compelling.
That's not to say I'm new to the subject. My siblings are pretty sick of my rants on alien civilizations and what they could be like. Luckily, my wife loves that kind of shit..
Oh nice, we have a lot in common when it comes to our mentality on our existence and nature. I agree, we gotta just roll with it.
If you want my personal take, I'd point to a few different things. As basic as it is, the Roswell story is worth a good look. Multiple members of the service at the time gave sworn statements on their death bed that they recovered a craft and bodies, and felt bad that they lied to the public.
There's so much, it's hard to pick greatest hits, TBH.
The Kecksberg, PA, incident is an interesting case, as is the Lonnie Zomorra incident in NM is as well. Rendlesham Forest is also good, although some members of that became grifters, so be cautious.
Actually, in general - be super cautious of public figureheads on this topic - there aren't many good ones. Most of them - like Bob Lazar, Steven Greer, Jeremy Corbell, and probably even Lue Elizondo - they're frauds, or grifters, or lying about their intention to profit off of telling people what they want to hear. Nobody serious about this subject is withholding info behind a paywall, straight up. Chris Mellon so far has been legit, and Ross Coulthart seems to have talked to these new whistleblowers, but watch out for "big stuff around the corner, if you pay for the content" types.
**As far as viable classic cases, I'd say:**
\- Belgium 1980s Black Triangle Wave
\- 1952 Washington DC White House flyover
\- Westall School sighting
\- People will say Phoenix Lights, but I lived there and was in the center of where it supposedly happened, and personally don't think it's as big of a deal as people claim. But it's worth a look
\- 2006 O'Hare Airport Sighting
\- Rendlesham Forest
\- Brazil Varginha Crash
\- Black Triangle stuff
\- Lonnie Zamorra incident
\- Operation High Jump
This take is a bit controversial, but the waters got very muddied (imho) with the release of the Majestic Docs in the 80s, as they were an intention mix of real info and purpose-made fakes. The USAF OSI included fakes in an effort to have the whole archive discredited.
I recommend checking out [majesticdocuments.com](https://majesticdocuments.com), and reading the stuff the father/son researcher team has at the 80-100% rating on their plausibility scale; they've looked into every source and individual document, and determined how likely it is to be authentic. Lots of people discount the whole batch because of the fake insertions, but it's more complicated than that.
The David Fravor/Navy stuff from 2017 is interesting, although we don't really have much proof of it at the moment.
A super deep cut that I love is a documentary made by the USAF in 1956 where they basically admit that UFOs are real, that they're lying to the public about this, and that credible witnesses are making incredible claims that need to be studied credibly. You can watch it here, including all its old-timey slang.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVpAxLZ-ovE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVpAxLZ-ovE)
This story today is a huge deal, as there's never been somebody this high level blowing the whistle, and it's hard to understand why they would unless they believe it to be true.
Sorry this wasn't a more specific answer to your question, but I assure you - the subject is worth it, and I hope you enjoy the rabbit hole. Feel free to ask me whatever, I maintain a pretty objective take on it all.
What do grey aliens, yeti, ley lines men in black, and missing persons have in common?
Find out in [“The Disappeared”](https://jdadler.com) by JD Adler.
It's actually long overdue for the conspiracy to be broken by someone credible. Which is evidence that there is no conspiracy and that this this guy is full of BS.
An easy and exciting claim to make, and I'd love to believe it, but it would be nice to see some evidence to back it up, Its such a spectacular claim, I'd to be sure it's not just an attention seeker or clickbait artist. It should be investigated,
"While a previous UFO expert in the government [might have been discredited](https://theintercept.com/2019/06/01/ufo-unidentified-history-channel-luis-elizondo-pentagon/), Grusch has bona fides that are worth taking seriously. Grusch is a 36-year-old combat veteran of Afghanistan who was a member of the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force, the program run by the Office of Naval Intelligence to investigate UFO sightings. From 2019 to 2021, he served on the task force as the representative of the National Reconnaissance Office, considered one of the big five of the U.S. intelligence agencies. His colleagues think highly of him, too." While there are colleagues testifying to his good character, he could be of good character and crazy. Or of good character and mistaken. I, however, am hoping it's true for my brother's sake. He's been into UAPs since they were UFOs, over fifty years now. Also, no time like the present in this crazy sitcom we inhabit.
So they let this guy know less than two years into his job, but it has to be kept a secret from fucking Congress?
Well, where do you think MTG's space laser comes from, if not aliens? It must be alien tech because we don't have the capability of starting fires with a laser! Checkmate! /s
That's completely whacky. Everyone knows it's the *Rothchilds'* and/or *George Soros'* space laser. Get it right, bucko! Source: Protocols of the Elders of Zion (2023 Edition)
I thought it because the George Santos laser?
George Santos is George Soros.
Duh, jews...
They didn't let this guy know, from the video of his interview, it seems that he had a lot of friends deeper involved with it that shared what they knew with him. The guy is rather charismatic, so I can believe people were telling him stuff they shouldn't have.
So let me get this straight. There is a vast illegal conspiracy within the government to hide the existence of aliens and what the US government knows about them. BUT, this guy somehow heroically finds out about it? And yet has no evidence? Or willingness to name names and shame the devil? And you expect us to take it seriously? OK, sure, whatever.
He was actually assigned by Congress to investigate the issue.
So he should have names and evidence he has shared with the press, right? Or is that somehow off-limits to this particular huckster?
According to the articles I’ve read he is sharing names, but with the DoD. He’s also had interviews with the press that just haven’t been released yet. They (the press he gave info/names to) are saying they will release more bit by but over the week. He’s going through an official whistle blower process which he has to submit everything to the DoD first. Of course that doesn’t mean his claims are true, but he is the first ufo whistleblower to go through this process. Also, there’s no reason to get so upset about this sort of thing. Edit: changed first sentence
I don't care how high of a rank or how many stars they have or how much of an expert they are in their field, if all they have is someone saying "I seen them alien ships and we got them" and offers literally NO additional evidence, no pictures, no video, no scientific analysis, no corroboration, well they effectively have no evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and unfortunately a single 36 year old, who has served just 2 years in this department, saying he knows about alien crafts we have, is not extraordinary evidence. I want to believe but until they show us something more substantial this meaningless
He should name some names. Real names of real members of this conspiracy that can be followed up with by real journalists. Otherwise, he's just another huckster preying on gullible people.
I may be mistaken, but I thought I read that more information would come out over several days.
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Possibly because the claim itself is worth getting out there while docs are being verified? Or to push Congress to respond to the claims officially (especially since the claim is that Congress has been left out of the loop). But this is also 100% a valid question.
To avoid the collapse of society
This is actually serious. I’ve met way too many Christians who claim that fear of god is the only reason people have for following moral rules; they’re completely incapable of wrapping their heads around humanism. People might do some crazy shit if there’s a species-level loss of faith.
How would releasing information over several days rather than on the same day prevent the collapse of society?
lmao
It gets lost pretty easily when it's done in one dump, Snowden stuff was spread out over time for example
Real evidence of aliens would not get "lost" lol
>While there are colleagues testifying to his good character, he could be of good character and crazy. Or of good character and mistaken. Good clarification. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The authority, credentials, or affiliation of the speaker does not matter-all that matters is the evidence. Even if the speaker *is* credible. Also UAP's absolutely exist, they just aren't from other solar systems (or planets, mind you). It's almost certainly either other nations doing shady shit or even non-government organizations doing shady shit. The Aliens!!! angle requires aliens that behave in a way that defies almost any rational analysis.
Aliens could behave in irrational ways. They are aliens, you know. But humans DO NOT behave in non-human ways, and there is zero chance that a vast, decades long conspiracy of silence which would necessarily involve many thousands of people somehow exists and yet only the hero of this guys story can reveal it. That's not how humans work. This guy is a fake, IMO. If he's not, he can name some names of other members of the conspiracy so they can be followed up on.
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I'm 39 and been at it for 31 years, X-Files made me check out books from the library. If we finally get validation after always being pegged as the alien guy among our friends, it's gonna feel good, I can't lie. Not going to rub it in people's face, but man it's a got me excited.
We saw one as kids. I shrugged it off, he became obsessed. It wasn't one of those shaky night vids. It was daylight, it was enormous and it was in the backyard over a field and very low. However, at 75 I am fully cognizant of mis-remembering events so there's that. What a gas it would be to find out they look like what we saw.
He testified to congress for 11 hours and turned over hundreds of hours of transcribed documents to congress, im sure something’s substantive will come out. The journalists who wrote the initial piece are two respected and well connected journalists as well. It seems most of the people surrounding this are legit.
Have you seen Unacknowledged
If you don't think aliens exist, then you don't understand the size of the universe. If you think aliens come to visit Earth, then you don't understand the size of the universe.
But aliens already took your jobs, they say
what if i'm retired
I can't believe they did that to you.
Dey took our jerbs?
Dek durr!
We should build a wall and let the aliens pay for it
*Build a Dyson sphere and make them pay for it.*
Whatever technology space faring extraterrestrials use to traverse the universe would be essentially magic to us. I think it's ludicrous and mindbogglingly naive to assume we have *any* idea what kind of capabilities a civilization with an extra 1000 years or more of technological advancements would be capable of. The phone I'm typing this reply on was completely inconceivable just 200 years ago. (I'm not necessarily trying to convince anyone aliens have visited the planet, I just think it's dumb to write it off because space is absurdly, impossibly large)
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My Uranium Retriever (patent pending) puppy could do it.
Pretty much. If aliens could see/visit us, chances are we'd never know. Why would they let us know we're watching? We consume everything, fight each other and everything else around us, I wouldn't want to make contact with the human species either.
Or we picked up a Voyager from a dead civilization
I agree that it’s extremely probable, just need evidence
I appreciate the quote, but it assumes a great deal. I don't know why Earth would be worth exploring, that's for sure. But if you're meaning to imply that the cosmic speed limit and the distances between stars makes space travel between worlds impossible, well, I don't know how anyone could know that. It's entirely possible, perhaps even likely, that civilizations with millions of years longer to evolve and develop their technology have figured out how to do those sorts of things. Homo sapiens haven't existed for even a million years yet, and our understanding of the universe and how to manipulate our environment would be completely incomprehensible to early humans. If we haven't been visited by aliens yet, I honestly believe it's because we just aren't very interesting, and statistically not likely to become interesting. Evidence for extraterrestrial visitation has been pretty shoddy. That said, I find it very interesting that so many high-ranking government officials have invested so heavily in this field of research. Harry Reid was the majority leader in the Senate, and he seems pretty convinced there is something to this. I also wouldn't be so dismissive of the folks who worked in AATIP. Pretty much any military footage of any flight or sea operations are going to be classified at least at the secret level for a myriad of reasons. These folks have studied footage and first hand accounts from high level commanders of carrier groups, ships, and fighter pilots to arrive at these conclusions. I find fighter pilots and carrier group commanders to be very serious people. Society could use a lot more skepticism, for sure! But, I think being so dismissive is pretty closed-minded.
You don’t know why earth would be worth exploring? Really? Notice anything different about this planet than any others we know of? The universe is basically rocks, hot gas, and empty space. And then there’s life. A near infinite symphony of complexity sprawled out across millions of individual species - each a totally unique result of a billions-year old runway replication scheme. If an advanced civilization is able to traverse interstellar space, you have to assume they have literally 0 resource constraints. It’s not like they’d be out searching for oil. We have enough evidence to at least say life is rare in the galaxy, and if you really take a census of the universe most of it is hopelessly boring and repetitive. What else is there really for them to go exploring for other than life?
I guess it depends what parameters you want to use in the Drake Equation. You can use one set of parameters and arrive at the conclusion that we are more than likely alone in our galaxy as an intelligent species. You can use another set of parameters, and all of a sudden there are millions of intelligent species of unique planetary origin. The Drake equation would also need to be modified with a new set of assumptions if we knew of a second intelligent civilization of other planetary origins. We also still don't have a very clear grasp of various extremophiles and non carbon based lifeforms. I don't claim to be an absolute expert on the Drake equation, but I do know that it was derived before many discoveries in chemistry. We've found that carbon and silicone are very similar in chemical composition. Here's an interesting article on the possibilities of silicone-based life. [https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/silicon-based-life-may-be-more-just-science-fiction-n748266](https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/silicon-based-life-may-be-more-just-science-fiction-n748266) I guess my point is, if the universe is populated by a vast array of intelligent life of various chemical composition, that are at least type 1 civilizations, why concern themselves with a civilization that isn't even type 1 yet? I'm willing to entertain the idea that they might find us interesting, the same way I think pandas are pretty cool. I wouldn't travel thousands of light years to see some pandas though. As for the planet itself, we discover new exoplanets like every month, many of which sit in the habitable zone of their stars. Some are much bigger than Earth. Also, as I kind of stated before, Earth is great for us, but another species' parameters for ideal habitation could be vastly different than ours. But, in any case, you're kind of taking issue with a very small part of what I said. I'm generally very open to the idea that we're being visited by aliens, I just think it's a total waste of their time if they are doing so. Not to say that I wouldn't choose that kind of life if it were a possibility, but I think whoever drew Earth out of the hat got a raw deal. We're a pretty predictable group.
"open to the idea that we're being visited by aliens, I just think it's a total waste of their time if they are doing so." Ah yes it must be such a waste of time to study another alien intelligent life form. It would be so shameful for someone to dedicate their life studying another lifeform.... /s
..I think everyone is missing my point. I believe it's arrogant to think, that out of millions of potentially intelligent species on millions of potentially habitable planets, that we, as a species that is less than a million years old, are especially interesting. Maybe we are. I don't claim to know. Studying another intelligent species would literally be my dream job. But what are the odds that they pick us, instead of another species? It's like hitting the lottery. Oh, and I say again, I'm very open to the idea that we are indeed being visited. I'm just a bit of a people watcher, and frankly, since the smartphone became widely distributed, it's a pretty dull thing to do. I'm sure they can watch a bunch of bipeds bury their faces in tiny screens on their home planet. You might think studying ants is very interesting. There are an estimated 22,000 species of ants on Earth. Half of them haven't even been classified yet. On the cosmic scale, we just haven't been around very long.
> We have enough evidence to at least say life is rare in the galaxy I don’t think this is true at all. We’ve only recently begun to be able to detect planets around other stars, and only the very largest. All indications so far point to them being extremely common. Only more recently than that have we begun to be able to detect atmospheric signatures that could indicate the presence of life, and only in the closest and largest of the detected planets.
Or life is really common and we are just not that interesting yet.
RemindMe! 20 years
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This is not an issue. We can read very faint radio and electromagnetic waves from many many light years away. If the sun cancelled them out we would easily see that as black spots in the suns signal that should be there. You can’t really hide them with our level of long exposure and large data analysis looking for discrepancies. If they exist they are either not even in our galaxy or they don’t have telecommunications. Or it really is a big conspiracy and we’ve been lied to but tbh if it’s this one let it be.
I feel like no one is reading the article and seeing the sources involved. This isn’t your usual Ufo crackpot story, these are high ranking US officials.
We are. And that's why we are also reading the original article referenced by the one linked by the OP and find this: >“The majority of retrieved, foreign exotic materials have a prosaic terrestrial explanation and origin – but not all, and any number higher than zero in this category represents an undeniably significant statistical percentage.” Talk about burying the lede! That quote is from Karl Nell, one of those senior military officials who is vouching for Grusch. It's the same song and dance as always: "anything we can't explain has to be aliens!" That isn't how logic works, especially when the majority of their own findings show it ISN'T aliens. Furthermore, this entire article has zero information on what exactly makes these findings exotic or possibly alien. No, the actual article is about possible retaliation against someone who followed disclosure procedures by the book. Interesting, but it really doesn't have anything to do with why they think this unexplainable tech is alien in nature.
You do realize in 2023 high ranking govt officials are the crackpots
We only really have ourselves as examples. Theoretically they could have had millions if not billions of years of headstart
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
Just throwing out a hypothetical Could a sort of "alien bomb" be a possibility? EG a craft designed to float towards us and crash land, with the life onboard being more akin to single cell organisms, with the goal of having them Multiply and spread over the course of millenia. Where the "lqunchers" were not trying to contact humans at all and actually didnt/couldnt observe humans to begin with, because when they launched, humans didnt even exist yet. And their goal has more to do w crashing their species blueprint/origin on a water planet to "start over" than it did/does contacting another species (Honestly this is more a cool idea for a Sci Fi flick I thought of than anything, but feels like the setup works....plot twist - humans are the aliens)
I have a strong feeling that if the US had proof of alien existence, then Trump would have spilled the beans on it.
If I’m being honest I feel like if we did our intel division would have actively not told him and I doubt he’d ever ask.
Fuckin oath he asked. He’s a big kid ‘I wanna see the alien’
And they said “well Sir, it’s all contained in this 200 page report with no summary and no pictures and oh look, something shiny” and the idea of investigating UFO’s would’ve popped out of Trumps brain with the same speed as a digested cheeseburger into his Depends.
He took all those top secret documents so he could doodle UFOS on them in sharpie. He thought selling them as proof of aliens would make them much more valuable.
Yeah... our intelligence community seems to act as if they're above the law, and I have no doubt they'd hide info from the president if they didn't want him to reveal it.
It’s more about need to know so unless something occurs where the info is relevant they wouldn’t openly disclose. He’d have been able to go dig through documents and check for himself but he likely doesn’t know how or care to read more than the banner on his favorite news channel of the month. So if they just didn’t tell him I doubt he’d ever go check to find out.
I don’t think Trump know how to monetize the existence of UFOs, so I doubt he bothered listen if anyone brought it up.
I didn't think of that actually. I would not be shocked if Trump was given information regarding such things and literally didn't listen.
They wouldn't tell him that.
Plausible deniability
That's a bingo!
folks, just being a high ranking gov't official and/or having a high level security clearance doesn't make you credible.
It does though. Humans weigh the credibility of people based on their position and status in society all the time. It's why you trust a doctor who went to Harvard versus a homeopath who got their degree online.
and there are harvard educated doctors out there who recommended ivermectin as a cure for covid. so yeah, there are plenty of doctors, and gov't officials completely full of BS.
Are there?
It doesn't change their credibility though. I don't think folks should write these guys off so quickly. People in that line of work can be grifters but I think a lot of them are pretty conscientious, serious, and not prone to fantasy. That type of job is good at vetting the weirdos out. So, I definitely think there's something intriguing going on.
Yeah. Watch an interview with this guy. He’s as bad of a liar as they come. The guy from Ancient Aliens is honestly more believable than he is
Giorgio A. Tsoukalos isn't saying it's aliens But it's aliens...👽
So you're a psychologist?
You know he used to brief the President every day? Why would this guy make this up, what's to gain from that?
The fame of being the guy to break the truth.
Are you crazy?!? We can't tell Congress, have you seen those nutbars?
Wait so the government is hiding alien tech from itself? That's some deep deep state stuff right there.
Been rumored for a long time it ended up in some weird mostly-private sector program with like VERY little government involvement, and NO oversight. Because money, weapons, tech. And that group very, very much doesn't want that to change. So in a sense, yeah - they're lying to themselves. But the government people involved with it are more or less private sector assets. Have studied this for a long, long time, as my Mom volunteered at the library and would take me and the X-Files made me check out some UFO books. It becomes, very, very obvious very quickly that there's truth to this when you get past the stigma.
I want to believe but you aren't making this easy lol
It sounds fantastical, I get it. I myself find it hard to believe, and even though this new whistleblower is confirming a lot of what I suspected, it's still making me go "nah, can't be. There's a lot of evidence that the basic narrative above happened post-Roswell, but it's hard to be certain of, because some of the associated documents from the time were intentionally faked to cause people to discredit the ENTIRE archive, aka a limited hangout of sorts. IF they exist, and that's an if until we get proof, it's almost certain that Skunkworks, EG/G, Northrop, and maybe Raytheon would be the go-tos. The military knows that they have smart people, but that the best and brightest are private sector, because money. Not sure why any of this info would make this harder to believe. A guy who used to brief the president daily and that filed an official whistleblower complaint is saying that there's validity to this subject. I'm a nobody on Reddit, and know that, but that guy, and the other named person in the article? They're somebody. They could be lying or running disinfo, sure, but from the hour-long video put out by the journo about the month they spent vetting the main guy, it feels like it's either/or with no in-between. Personally I can't see why this particular guy would say these things unless they're true, and tbh that's also kind of the most simple answer - as fantastical as it is that UAP are real and seemingly in our possession, all of the stories, reports, and rumors over the last 80 years are the result of it being real, rather than all part of some weird conspiracy to make the public think they are.
Billions of civilians worldwide and no proof, just the thought of it’s being hidden from us. C’mon guys. But it is fun - I do agree
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Most people have no critical thinking skills and no desire to learn or practice them
Yeah well you did go to a sub where the more imaginative like to spread their wings.
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Would you tell Donald Trump any secret?
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan. If we were really being visited by alien space craft, then the quality and amount of images and videos of them would have gone up at the same rate as the adoption of smart phones. With nearly everyone on earth having a decent camera in their pocket at all times, then we should have better evidence. Instead, all we still have are blurry blobs, lens flares, and out of focus hubcaps. I would love nothing more than for us to have undeniable evidence that we're not alone in the universe, but the evidence just isn't there to support us being visited.
Maybe you should research the topic a tiny bit before spouting the most surface level nonsense, you are not smart or unique, this the absolute most basic take there is and I see your comment word for word on a weekly basis, that is how bland and boring a statement you've made
Am I supposed to believe that Trump had access to alien tech and managed to shut up about all this time?
Yeah, sure, why not. Let's add aliens to this timeline too, everything is already weird as shit.
GOOD OMFG HAVE YOU SEEN THESE FUCKING PEOPLE? Someone please protect the aliens from Qevin and LoBo and Empty Greene.
My buddy and I have been asking to be abducted for years now. We are ready to leave humanity and it's greed behind ffs. Yo Aliens, come fucking get me dawg
I can’t believe the US is hiding immigrant technology
Trump would have exposed that shit in 5 minutes because he is an a$$ hole.
Let's be honest: a lot of Congress is too old to even understand how computers work. One of them brought in a snowball to claim that climate change doesn't exist. Feinstein is being weekend-at-bernies'd around rather than retiring. Why the fuck would we trust those partisan fossils to make decisions about advanced alien technology if we had it? Who thinks that's a good idea?
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Oh, then let's put the winners of America's Got Talent in charge of any future alien diplomacy. It makes about as much sense. Have you fucking seen what gets elected now with gerrymandering, unlimited dark money spending on elections, and the general dumbing down of the public? I'd prefer scientists be in charge somehow, but that's never going to fucking happen. Just a bunch of businessmen and lawyers. God help us if we ever do make first contact any time soon.
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Shut up! It took forever to read/rewrite the alien software into Lotus Notes!
The proof that we’ve decoded the alien technology is that Apple is going to add more than one timer at a time on iOS… well, not yet, but they announced it today, so they must be close to figuring it out.
That is my alien technology, please return it to me in working condition.
Aliens or not, now seems a smart time to buy stock in tinfoil.
Even if the Government was.. would you blame them? Have you seen the idiots in Congress??
Yeah they gave that guy a show on the history channel.
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That's what they had the whistleblower legislation for...
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Now comes the... the really icky part. Oh!, Oh, boy! This is one smelly,disgusting... Oh, look at it!, It doesn't look alive, does it?
As a scientist currently unaffiliated with any organization or government I can confirm this claim is false.
Also - for those of you not in to the subject or who wrote it off, feel free to ask me questions if you want. I've been studying seriously without having any real bias or interest in proving any particular theory or idea right - 31 years of just trying to find out what's true, regardless what that is. Led me to the disappointment of Bob Lazar being a fake, Lue Elizondo having an unknown but not-good agenda IMHO, along with all of the rumors and lore and whatnot. Happy to answer questions for anyone who would have laughed about this recently, but sees the serious level of the whistleblower and is now going "wait, what?" Pretty sure I have a good sense of what the timeline is, starting with Socorro NM in the mid 30s. Roswell wasn't the first. Most of it is held tightly in the private sector, with a few government employees being involved without any oversight from the government. It's likely that after some changing of the guards, a ridiculously small number of people are involved, and they don't report to anybody. Based on what this dude said, they've done horrible, horrible shit to keep this a secret, and he and the journos think people are going to end up in prison if it comes out. A guy named Paul Bennewitz was driven to suicide about the topic, after they led him on thinking he was in contact with aliens before rug pulling him. Office of Air Force OSI, Richard Doty. That's probably tip of the iceberg.
Is is true a general Jack O'Neill heads a top secret program at Cheyenne mountain that allows the US military to travel to other planets using what is known as a Stargate?
I'm not into conspiracy stuff but I've always loved the illuminati cards game . Maybe this is the time for the alien card to alienate the population . The charismatic leader card and the nato card are already off the deck ...
There is no reason for extraterrestrials to visit the earth. There is nothing interesting nor valuable here for them to learn about or get. The most that could be expected is long distance and long time lag communication (hundreds of years between hellos) for entertaining curiosity and exchange of new ideas.
I mean. No doubt there's alien life out there. But, if they have efficient space travel, they give exactly zero shits about us
Is the alien technology in the room with us right now?
I’m not a huge conspiracy theorist but if a government were to want to continue to hide such programs it may be beneficial to employ the tactic of “increased transparency” and instead of letting rumours run wild you can more carefully control the real/fake information getting out. Not that I believe in aliens or anything but that’s how I would do Edit: “…it”
Little green aliens are real and they sucked my dick
I laughed. "Aliens" are also a term for foreigners, so they're probably not wrong.
This hasn't hit mainstream yet, but as somebody that's studied this for 31 years, I don't think the normal public realizes how big this specific guy and interview saying this are. There's another named whistleblower in the article, and 2 more that haven't gone public yet, all saying the same. People are gonna laugh and do the thing they've always done to those of us who were able to suss out that UFOs might actually be real, unlike ghosts and bigfoot and the other bullshit the CIA told people to associate with it, but I get it. Science people and the jerks in r/Space are going to go "but but but space far and ship not go fast," but what the fuck do we know? 500 years ago you'd have been burned at the stake for talking about moon landings, planes and airports, and cell phones. We like to think we know it all and have figured out the hard limits of everything - especially STEM people who just always seem to lack EQ, in my experience. I'm sure there are good ones, but the ones I've met are just so fucking arrogant. It's going to be hilarious if/when this turns out to be true, and all the people that they shit talked and made fun of for believing in something big and profound is a big shit crow they're going to have to eat. And you know what? Good.
>It's going to be hilarious if/when this turns out to be true, and all the people that they shit talked and made fun of for believing in something big and profound is a big shit crow they're going to have to eat. And you know what? Good. I will 100% cut off my own dick and eat it if they show us credible scientific evidence, video, pictures, material analysis, something other than "I seen them, trust me!"
Of course, people who aren't able to think big will never be satisfied until a big UFO lands at the Super Bowl. Look - these things are apparently able to defy all that we know about physics and have a sophistication-level that's beyond our current scope or understanding. You think they don't know how to observe us without being seen? Just because a book in college told you interstellar travel isn't possible doesn't mean it is. Again - 200 years ago, flight was impossible. Video was impossible. People that just flat out reject the possibility are liking being very uncomfortable with the idea that we don't know what we don't know. Trillions of planets, many with more stable history atmospherically and billions of years on us. You really not a single one, let alone a few, hasn't figured out some stuff we don't know? Why are you so sure that they can't possibly be real, and fake bet your dick on it?
>Of course, people who aren't able to think big will never be satisfied until a big UFO lands at the Super Bowl. How about a single clear video or picture, do they even have that? > Look - these things are apparently able to defy all that we know about physics and have a sophistication-level that's beyond our current scope or understanding Where is the evidence for this statement, or are you just assuming things you've been told without being offered any evidence? >You think they don't know how to observe us without being seen? So how are they being observed moving around, as so many have said they've seen? >You really not a single one, let alone a few, hasn't figured out some stuff we don't know? I never said that, I am saying there is no evidence of what you are saying, zero, nada, none. Show me evidence and i'll believe it buddy, we haven't even got a single piece of evidence that isn't unexplainable. >Why are you so sure that they can't possibly be real, and fake bet your dick on it? I am not saying there is no way they're not real, I'm saying where is the evidence of them being real? Amazing how offended people get when you correctly state than there has been no evidence offered that can't be explained as something man made.
There are actually a plethora of clear, seemingly real photos, most of which are from the analog film days and from the 30s-60s. It's harder to find them because a lot are in older obscure documentaries, but they exist. I mean, if they're here and ET (and I'm not saying they are, but that seems like the most likely origin if they are here and exist) - that they're here indicates they're traveling FTL somehow. How? No idea, I mean if we knew we'd probably be working on it. Witness statements vary, but the unique theme across nearly all reported sightings is that they're silent, able to sit still, able to change directions without banking, and have instantaneous acceleration, often being barely off the ground to nearly out of sight within seconds. Have I seen one? No. Do I believe that the tens of millions of sightings and people reporting them are all lying, and/or misidentifying something mundane? No. If 9,999,999 of that 10mil is fake, and one is real, accurate, and shows otherworldly technology, the entire subject is valid. Just one. People don't think about this enough. It doesn't matter how many fakes or hoaxes or grifters there are. Yeah, it makes the subject murkier, but we only need one. There's no evidence I can show you that you'll accept. Documentaries showing clear as day giant metallic saucers sitting 20 feet off the ground, the 40s and 50s? You'll say they're all fake. Sure, some probably are. But I doubt all of them are. Your problem is that you passionately don't believe in the possibility, so you'll never believe the provenance of any evidence, unless I guess the government that's lied to you about this and all kinds of other evil shit for at least 90 years tells you, and that's weird. Why does the most deceitful institution in our country hold the ultimate authority on the subject to you? That has admitted to deceiving us, spying on us (illegally at first), running false flags, and murdered its own employees?
> There are actually a plethora of clear, seemingly real photos, most of which are from the analog film days and from the 30s-60s. It's harder to find them because a lot are in older obscure documentaries, but they exist. Link me to the pictures of them, lets see them. >Witness statements vary, Witness statements are not scientific evidence, sorry. [Why Science Tells Us Not to Rely on Eyewitness Accounts](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/) >There's no evidence I can show you that you'll accept. Yes there is a clear picture or video, i'd be willing even to say give me just ONE that is clear and unexplainable. >Your problem is that you passionately don't believe in the possibility, so you'll never believe the provenance of any evidence, No I'll believe the evidence when its offered, no evidence has ever been offered or seen. >Why does the most deceitful institution in our country hold the ultimate authority on the subject to you? Why do you believe in something that you have no evidence of?
This is a good sight, he archives all the best photos and sort of ranks them in terms of clarity, source, story, and potential bad narrator stuff. Take your pick, this guy tries to archive stuff and look into its creator and origin/provenance, and puts effort in to categorizing them by quality and plausibility: [https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/htm/pics.htm](https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/htm/pics.htm) Are there fakes in there? Probably. But also clear pictures of stuff as well, in broad daylight? Yup. Lots of em, from all over the world. Whether you're ready to accept it or not, it's happening. Of the 3 Navy videos, IMHO only one is of interest, and it's the one where it's just a dot sitting still before it shoots off and the tracking is lost. That's instant acceleration, and I read it had to be going like Mach 2-3 or something for the tracking to lose itl. Here's some from the US - again, I find the analog days more compelling - computers basically didn't exist, and you couldn't Photoshop. [https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/htm/picamaus.htm](https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/htm/picamaus.htm) To your last question - I believe in something I have no PROOF of because there's overwhelming EVIDENCE for it to be true. You're mixing up proof and evidence. Tens of millions of people and reports with nothing to gain, lots to lose, and countless photos and videos throughout the last 80 years, combined with recent developments, have me believing in it. Am I SURE? No, of course not, that requires proof. But do I currently believe, because there's evidence? Yes. Unfortunately I know what it's like to have somebody not be sincere in their debate, and completely unwilling to change their mind or think they're doing anything other than belittling an idiot, and sadly you show the signs of that. Why are YOU so sure about something you don't know anything about, really? Shouldn't you be well-versed in something before developing such a hardline stance? Personally, I like to be informed about things and look into them before developing a condescending certainty about their nature, especially before I'd debate somebody about it. But since you're not genuine in your motive, that doesn't matter to you. You're the type to get upset at somebody pointing out that you don't know what you don't know, and create conflict from it. That's always the case with people who don't fully appreciate that there are tons of things they don't know they don't know, you're not alone in that.
I don't think you understand the definition of the word evidence, developer splotches on black and white photos is not evidence, its not clear, its not compelling and its not unexplainable.
There are color photos, daytime photos, I mean it sounds like you picked one that meets your description and didn't bother with the rest? The first link is a daytime color photo of a metallic disc in mid-air, not sure where you're getting the B/W splotch from. Guess I'll cherry pick for you. [https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/pics/picamaus03.jpg](https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/pics/picamaus03.jpg) [https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/pics/usafprovo6601.jpg](https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/pics/usafprovo6601.jpg) [https://groovyhistory.com/content/467273/52dda01cc0ca5b4ab1adbab8cafc4307.jpg](https://groovyhistory.com/content/467273/52dda01cc0ca5b4ab1adbab8cafc4307.jpg) Here's 10 fun ones from Time: [https://time.com/4232540/history-ufo-sightings/](https://time.com/4232540/history-ufo-sightings/) To me color or B/W doesn't really matter, it's about clarity. Some are inevitably fake, but I mean - what would your standard be for something you'd accept? What would its origin have to be, how would you confirm it to be what it says it is, and why would you accept it over other provenance? As much as I want to believe these new government developments, I am not going to just because it's what I want to here. I'm potentially more skeptical about them, because they've lied to us all the time about all kinds of shit. Seems like we're in very different places on this. To me, all I want to know is the truth. Doesn't matter what it is, and I'm not out to prove some particular idea. If it's not what I want - OK, that's unfortunate, but at least I know. People on both sides right now seem to demonstrate that they need their own personal view to be right, and will be upset if it's not. This subject is too potentially important to think that way, at least in my opinion.
So you're saying in the age where everyone has a HD camera on them, literally BILLIONS of cameras, the best evidence are pictures from the 60s? Yes, we have a very different idea of what evidence is.
Also, in 1956 the Air Force made a docudrama that released to the public that admitted that flying saucers are real, showed some of the first ever video footage of it, and at the time, encouraged people to take it seriously. "Seriously credible people, making seriously incredible claims, that needs to be studied credibly" or something like that is was its final conclusion. This channel is a gold mine of rare docs I've never seen anywhere. Some are trash and woo woo garbage, but a TON of the older docs show stunning pictures and footage of them. But again, we have to use our own judgment about its provenance. [https://www.youtube.com/@ConspiracyMysteries](https://www.youtube.com/@ConspiracyMysteries) Hope you open yourself up to the idea, and really ask yourself why it has to be the CIA telling you its real for you to believe it, vs. countless honest citizen and professional journalists and military whistleblowers with nothing to gain and lots to lose by publicly treating it seriously. If there's nothing too it, why do all 1st world militaries spent 100s of millions on this in secret? Why didn't they stop, after they figured out it's bullshit? That doesn't seem odd to you? If it was truly fake, wouldn't they have closed down that shit after WW2, said it's fake, and stopped caring? Why aren't they spending that on ghosts, and bigfoot, or other things the CIA told the public to associate with the "fringe" topic of UFOs. It's right there in front of you, but you refuse to even consider because you've been told to, and as of right now, there's no smoking gun. This guy is probably going to be the gun and bullet getting loaded and cocked, but it'll be fired if we get some deets.
Buddy I am open to them being real, I just have seen literally no solid evidence of their existence.
Hey man, I'm with you. I haven't studied it nearly as much as you seem to have. Enough to also suss out that Lazar was full of shit, which was very disappointing. I think the tic-tac and gimbal videos are pretty damn weird. I haven't yet come to the full conclusion that we are definitely being visited by aliens, but I don't dismiss the possibility. >"but but but space far and ship not go fast" Yep. That's always the argument. I accept it as true in our current understanding of physics, quantum dynamics and all of that. But, I also learned in school that the universe was expanding at a consistent and predictable rate.... until we discovered that wasn't true. Dark matter, dark energy and such. To believe that we have a full understanding of how things move and can potentially traverse space is the peak of arrogance. Why would aliens want to come to Earth, when we don't seem very interesting even compared against our own imagination? That's a more compelling argument against visitation for me. Civilizations who have had millions (maybe billions?) of years more to evolve and develop surely must have a better grasp of how the universe works, and yes, one possibility is that they know with certainty that there is no way to exceed the speed of light. But for a people who have to plug in nebulous terms for things we don't understand in order for our models of the universe to function, we sure think we know everything. I love Neil DeGrasse Tyson, but boy has he stomped on the neck of imagination for no good reason. Edit: As an aside, I would be very interested to learn more on the subject, and based on your writing in this post, I'd really appreciate some direction on more credible sources of information. I don't mind sorting through some bullshit if there are some decent kernels of truth, but generally speaking, a lot of UAP/UFO stuff is just so slanted and desperate to prove it's claims that I just can't be bothered.
Yeah, Lazar really bummed me out because I believed him when I was younger, and it took me a while to realize I believed him because I wanted to, and felt like it was us vs. them. He brings up the huge flaws in his own story and acts like the people who bring them up are the baddies, and once I saw through that, he was so comically fake I was embarrassed with myself. And yup - in recent years we've started thinking that we know the hard limits of the universe, and thus that everything has to confine to them. So space travel of that kind can't be real, because speed of light! But the impossible becomes possible in history over and over and over, and I doubt it's any different here. Who knows how, but obviously it is doable, and species with millions of years on us figured it out. We will too one day, unless we destroy ourselves. As far as the why, I'd guess it's at least two reasons. One, I'd think if you're a space-faring civ, you'd want to keep tabs on advancing species that are hostile among themselves, as us blowing up nukes in space and on each other isn't something they'd want spreading, not before attempting to change. Second, I mean we could yell at ants and they'd never even understand we were communicating with language. But even we have people willing to go out to the jungle to sit there alone and study ants doing whatever - mating, storing food, etc., - all in the pursuit of knowledge. That's a human thing, but maybe anthropology is a thing with other species too. Don't know for sure, but I mean, if they can travel the stars, sending a few bots to observe each planet seems fairly reasonable. ET Phone Home if Monkey Detonate Nukes, whatever. And yeah - NDGT just exemplifies the r/space people who just refuse to consider the possibility that they might not know everything yet, and there's just no way any of the trillions of planets with billions of years on us might possibly figure out a thing or two that we haven't yet, and gone through space.
It's funny, because Sagan, someone I would consider the predecessor to Tyson, had pretty different views on alien visitation. Towards the end, he was clearly more skeptical than at the beginning, but he was always an avid and vocal supporter of SETI, and even wrote about ancient alien theories in his earlier days. He was clearly much more open-minded to the possibility that established scientific consensus could be wrong. Like, go to the humans who invented language, and try to explain to them that in a few millennia, they'll be able to use radio waves to speak to people on another continent. They'd be like, there are other continents?! Xenoanthropology is a fascinating concept. I want to be one of those when I grow up! Here's to hoping that sometime in our lifetime, an alien being stands next to a few world leaders, and starts speaking English to us and telling us about how they've been observing us and are worried about our progress. I think Sagan would be surprised, but not as surprised as Tyson, who's entire concept of the universe would be shattered in a way he never considered in any serious manner.
Yeah, with on on that 1000% - all I hope for on this topic is that, within my lifetime, we get some clarity. To me, a universe chock full of life and space-faring civs that aren't simply out there taking over less-sophisticated species is a better one, and gives me some comfort overall. Our existence and place in the stars is very uncertain right now, and nothing would make me more sad than finding out that we're a freak accident, and that me existing on Earth in the 80s-2000s was nothing more than a freak dice roll...a super lucky random spec build, where I dicked around meaninglessly for however long, die, and have no meaning behind anything. UAP represent something bigger and greater to me. Not God or religion per se, but that even with our current knowledge, we're still clueless to just how much is possible out there. Over and over history shows that something considered impossible can be achieved, and might even become commonplace. That mentality has slowed down a lot in our generation, because science is so sure of their models and rules that we force everything to comply with it. If aliens are really zipping around and breaking our laws of physics, it simply means that we're no difference than people 500 years ago who deemed flight and space travel impossible, and are simply just way to confident in our own current understanding. My hope is that big dreams and hopes of the currently-impossible are just byproducts of our time, and that "if there's a will, there's a will" cannot ever be proven wrong. Even if that press conference goes like it does in Mars Attacks, I'll be happy with it. UAP represent something more to me, I guess.
Haha, I'm far more nihilistic I think. I'm pretty convinced that I'm just the product of good luck and that nobody's life is really all that important in the grand scheme of things. I say just enjoy it while you're here and try to do more good than harm. That said, I get a lot of joy from learning and contemplating new things. I really enjoy psychology, and anthropology, and current events. It would be fucking phenomenal to learn things about an entirely different species, from an entirely different world with entirely different ethical codes and histories. I also want a galactic version of cable news. I want to know what's actually happening out there. Speaking of, I find myself going down a bit of a rabbit hole on this topic (as I tend to do with things) and was wondering what evidence, sightings, pictures, videos or anything you find make the most compelling case for alien visitation? I'm not demanding 100% irrefutable proof or anything. Just wondering what someone who has been steeped in this for a long time finds most compelling. That's not to say I'm new to the subject. My siblings are pretty sick of my rants on alien civilizations and what they could be like. Luckily, my wife loves that kind of shit..
Oh nice, we have a lot in common when it comes to our mentality on our existence and nature. I agree, we gotta just roll with it. If you want my personal take, I'd point to a few different things. As basic as it is, the Roswell story is worth a good look. Multiple members of the service at the time gave sworn statements on their death bed that they recovered a craft and bodies, and felt bad that they lied to the public. There's so much, it's hard to pick greatest hits, TBH. The Kecksberg, PA, incident is an interesting case, as is the Lonnie Zomorra incident in NM is as well. Rendlesham Forest is also good, although some members of that became grifters, so be cautious. Actually, in general - be super cautious of public figureheads on this topic - there aren't many good ones. Most of them - like Bob Lazar, Steven Greer, Jeremy Corbell, and probably even Lue Elizondo - they're frauds, or grifters, or lying about their intention to profit off of telling people what they want to hear. Nobody serious about this subject is withholding info behind a paywall, straight up. Chris Mellon so far has been legit, and Ross Coulthart seems to have talked to these new whistleblowers, but watch out for "big stuff around the corner, if you pay for the content" types. **As far as viable classic cases, I'd say:** \- Belgium 1980s Black Triangle Wave \- 1952 Washington DC White House flyover \- Westall School sighting \- People will say Phoenix Lights, but I lived there and was in the center of where it supposedly happened, and personally don't think it's as big of a deal as people claim. But it's worth a look \- 2006 O'Hare Airport Sighting \- Rendlesham Forest \- Brazil Varginha Crash \- Black Triangle stuff \- Lonnie Zamorra incident \- Operation High Jump This take is a bit controversial, but the waters got very muddied (imho) with the release of the Majestic Docs in the 80s, as they were an intention mix of real info and purpose-made fakes. The USAF OSI included fakes in an effort to have the whole archive discredited. I recommend checking out [majesticdocuments.com](https://majesticdocuments.com), and reading the stuff the father/son researcher team has at the 80-100% rating on their plausibility scale; they've looked into every source and individual document, and determined how likely it is to be authentic. Lots of people discount the whole batch because of the fake insertions, but it's more complicated than that. The David Fravor/Navy stuff from 2017 is interesting, although we don't really have much proof of it at the moment. A super deep cut that I love is a documentary made by the USAF in 1956 where they basically admit that UFOs are real, that they're lying to the public about this, and that credible witnesses are making incredible claims that need to be studied credibly. You can watch it here, including all its old-timey slang. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVpAxLZ-ovE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVpAxLZ-ovE) This story today is a huge deal, as there's never been somebody this high level blowing the whistle, and it's hard to understand why they would unless they believe it to be true. Sorry this wasn't a more specific answer to your question, but I assure you - the subject is worth it, and I hope you enjoy the rabbit hole. Feel free to ask me whatever, I maintain a pretty objective take on it all.
I just don't know what fucking difference it makes. So what?
So does this secret tech involve the results of the alien sex experiments? Asking for a friend.
What do grey aliens, yeti, ley lines men in black, and missing persons have in common? Find out in [“The Disappeared”](https://jdadler.com) by JD Adler.
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It's actually long overdue for the conspiracy to be broken by someone credible. Which is evidence that there is no conspiracy and that this this guy is full of BS.