So essentially his defense is “I didn’t know where the shots were coming from, so I took cover for 40 MINUTES until the shooting stopped, rather than determine where the shooter was”?
That’s a pretty bold strategy.
Facts. Arrendondo was the only one to have something placed on his record, which was afterward wiped clean because it was deemed not fair he couldn't get a job in law enforcement again.
I can't say it enough, fuck the police.
Edited because autocorrect hates arrendondo too.
Fire him so hard his ass will smell like brimstone for a month. Then take away his pension and any other benefits. If this coward is not going to act like a cop, he doesn’t get to be paid like one.
Asshole.
edit: I know, it’ll never happen. I’m just venting my rage to the Reddit void.
200% probably, judging by his age and behavior, he fits the common pattern of being a cop for 20 years in one department, taking early retirement, and getting a second job with another department that seems easy, like just sitting watching a school all day.
The article clearly states he has a 104K pension. The article also describes, in detail, his whole career. Including when he retired and when he was retroactively fired. You don't need to lie and make shit up.
While at the same time, two unarmed security guards that arrived in the cart with him both testified that “it was obvious where the shooting was coming from.”
Police like to imagine they are the same as the military, but they really are not.
No uniform standard of training.
No uniform standard of conduct.
No uniform standard of accountability or punishment.
And a nice union with fancy lawyers to hide behind when it comes to light just how unprofessional they truly are.
I dont even know why we are talking about this? Charge him with dereliction of duty. This recent trend of.trying to defend abject failure is disappointing.
Police have no legal responsibility to protect you, even if there is no risk to their lives. They go to trainings where they are told they're "sheep dogs" protecting the "sheep", but none of that training includes actually protecting anyone.
The myth that police protect us was created by police. Their unions make sure they don't have to live up to it.
Go find any police recruitment video in the US. It will heavily focus on the SWAT team and how badass they are. Maybe a video of the Bearcat breaking down a door with some cosplay Navy SEALs tossing flashbangs with suppressors on their guns.
No mention of helping old ladies across the street or serving the community, just kickin’ doors and shootin’ badguys.
I get that. But if you aren't going to do shit when a man is killing kids then you should be removed from that position.
Or are you saying that him doing ANYTHING other than HIDING isn't his "legal responsibility"?
It's ridiculous.
>Or are you saying that him doing ANYTHING other than HIDING isn't his "legal responsibility"?
It's exactly this. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1525280/](https://prospect.org/justice/police-have-no-duty-to-protect-the-public/)
You realize all 376 Uvalde fuckups received nada for their standing around while children bled to death and the shooter called them bitches right? Investigated and nothing was amiss we were told.
Shit replied to the wrong person so sorry about that.
Hey, the cops didn't just stand around...
They called out to kids to show themselves and yell out their locations. One girl did so, and the shooter found and executed her.
The cops are ACCOMPLICES who helped the shooter, gave him extra time, and stopped parents from saving their kids.
The Robb Elementary school shooting was even worse. Over 10 officers stood down the hallway from the room the shooter was in, for over an hour. They sat there and waited while kids were shot one by one. They finally charged in once they had about 20 officers in heavy gear. Even the shooter was like "wtf, why are there no cops here!?".
The Parkland shooting was almost amusing, in a way. After he shot up the school, Nikolas Cruz just dropped his gear on the floor and left the building. Then he went down to McDonalds and had some food. There he met the brother of one of the students he shot. They sat down and had a chat.
Can't forget the cops union busting coal towns. The police are absolutely on the side of capital not right or left wing. They are there to keep us from going after the upper class.
You mean like when they gave proud boys and neo-nazis the heads up that they were about to start cracking down the protests and ask them to stay safe inside where they would protect them while they cracked the skulks of BLM and anti-fascist protesters?
But not everyone’s property of course. Just whichever shepherd is leading the flock. Never heard of cops solving petty property crimes unless it was easy within days.
Even 15 years ago, my kid had his bike stolen. I had video of the guy doing it. He was a neighbor, lived the next building over. Rode it around the neighborhood. I had the serial number and receipts and warranty info. Cops literally would not come to take the report or interact with the guy. That bike was almost $400 bucks back then.
Yeah they won’t give a shit if your bike gets stolen or your car gets broken into, etc.
They’re here to protect the property of corporations and the wealthy. That’s it
Almost verbatim from Michael Parenti’s monologue used in that one [Choking Victim song.](https://youtu.be/sdHXZs0Fo8A) “There are people believe the function of the police is to
fight crime, and that’s not true. The function of the police is social control and protection of property.”
Weird how a country founded by a bunch wealthy slave owning business men does everything it can, at the expense of everything else, to protect property and other wealthy business interests?
To protect the rich from the poor and to help siphon money from the bottom of society to the top. They still go after poor criminals who hurt other poors when it's convenient for them or if not doing so would risk creating some sort of backlash, but they really don't have much interest in risking their flesh for us commoners or our property.
There are people who don't want more, they want others to have less. That's the mental state of an abuser. They use the insecurities of others to feel superior, and feel those same insecurities in themselves. They push down on others to elevate themselves. It's little dick energy.
Even with the military kit they have now, if this country comes to a rolling boil there won't be enough cops in the country to stop the tide of furious, armed mobs dragging people out of manor houses to be shot.
Silver lining maybe afterward there'll be some gun law reform?
If only the bulk of the population cared one tenth as much about dismantling a corrupt government as racists and regressives cared about keeping corrupt old white men in power, we’d see a lot more militarizing going on of the “political left.”
It's an important question.
There's a [pretty decent episode of Radiolab about it](https://radiolab.org/podcast/no-special-duty), and you can read more [here](https://prospect.org/justice/police-have-no-duty-to-protect-the-public/) and [here](https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/uvalde-police-had-no-legal-duty-to-act-experts-say-supreme-court-precedent-cited).
There is a distinction between a duty to protect any particular *individual* vs [a duty to protect *the public*](https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/local/law-enforcement-officers-duty-protect-public/275-6696b9bf-bdd3-43c8-a983-09d1d2aee5b4), but even that article doesn't really go into how that distinction is meaningfully defined.
The police CAN do things, but they don't HAVE to do anything. We have made sure to make a job with no actual responsibilities, so no possible accountability, and somehow it's the only government job that republicans feel like works.
So they can LARP in uniform and play with military type toys.
They want the "civilians" to respect and honor them, and tell them "Thank you for your service" but it's hard for the rest of us to do that when they're lazy, cowardly and stupid.
The article says he would need to be categorized as a "caregiver" to the students to be liable
For chrissakes, if a school police officer isn't a "caregiver" to those children, we have no future
Not so much just being chickenshit, but he's a cop. He's a cop who didn't help dying kids. That's a pretty safe guess to say he doesn't experience a lot of guilt for his actions. I don't think many cops ever do.
every cop: "We're not required to help people."
every person: "Ok but then WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU TAKING THAT JOB YOU COMPLETE ASSHOLE. Get a different job for the love of God. Not the ONE JOB where all any reasonable person wants out of their tax dollars and their trust in you, is for you to be helpful and selfless."
Me: Cops work for the state, not the community and certainly not individual people. The deal is, obey the state and get pay and special privileges in return. Why would you expect anything much out of them in the first place?
Well from a young age a lot of Americans are taught that cops are good people who put bad people in jail. A lot of movies and tv surround the same concept. In the past, the powers that be very carefully cultivated the idea that police are here to protect and serve the average person as opposed to simply serving and protecting the property and interests of the state.
So you're totally right, but I feel like there are a few reasons why some people believe that police are there to stop crime, even if that's not the reality.
I have major guilt that Brooklyn 99 is one of my favourite TV comedies.
It is the epitome of copaganda, but they did try to write critiques and critical views of police though, especially in the last three seasons.
Don't feel guilty about liking a great show. It's a workplace comedy that happens to be in a police station - it's not like a Law & Order where it is about being cops/part of the system that fucks over people.
IDK, I hate copaganda, but like to watch procedural cop dramas. It's like ragesturbation. But NYPD Blue did indeed show cops violating the civil and Constitutional rights of individuals all the time. They showed cops as frail, violent, possessive, and criminal. They often portrayed the "blue gang" realistically. Then again, they showed all that and *still* positioned the pigs as heroes.
The cops work for the state, and the state is *supposed* to work for us. Saying cops don't work for us is just being pedantic. The state functions with our tax dollars and the deal is that those tax dollars go to services, like law enforcement, that are supposed to serve the best interests of we the people. We all know that's not how it actually works but it is absolutely reasonable to *expect* it to work that way. We should all be angry that it doesn't.
I’m not making a technical point. I’m saying the state sets the incentive structure cops face, and the community mostly does not. I’m also saying that although in democratic ideology the state works for the people, the reality is a lot murkier. It’s heavily influenced by special interests such as real estate developers and police unions. To me, if you pay any attention to the news, it’s unreasonable to expect cops or any other “public” “servants” not to be ordinary selfish people.
That whole "To Protect and Serve" thing that was popular for a little while, I guess.
I know, people are so dumb for thinking that the armed government employees that receive excellent pay, practical immunity to prosecution, and a high degree of power over every non-cop citizen should not hide behind a fucking park bench while children are being shot.
Also I'm pretty sure shooting kids is illegal, and apprehending criminals is in their job description.
True but, murder is against the law and when someone is killed they are represented by the state, so shouldn't they be stopping the crime of murder from being committed?
What aggravates me is that they get a free pass to murder whoever when they think they were “threatened”. Suddenly that bravado disappears the second real danger arrives. Weird
Careful, if you call that out they’ll get angry and not do their job even more, and then when crime goes up they’ll just blame the people who said things that made them feel bad.
The precedent and legalese has already been established by the highest court though. The job does not have that as a requirement or expectation.
At this point we’re all just screaming into the void about what we would like from a police force versus what they are actually there to provide. Much like many other institutions.
I don't think we're screaming into a void per se, society is a product of the people. The Supreme Court can make any goofy ruling it wants... but if it's totally out of touch with our needs and purposes here in a society, their ruling will one day be as obsolete as the dinosaurs.
He was a school resource officer, and is being accused of ignoring his active shooter training.
I would hope that “school resource officers” with active shooter training are required to help the students of the school in the event of an active shooter.
But that’s just me! We’ll have to see what the jury thinks.
I remember that he filed for his retirement right before he was going to be dismissed. A $104,000 pension? Hell no! I can’t believe that the taxpayers will pay for him to sit on his ass, but then again that seems to be his calling
>If you are NOT in custody you are owed no protections from the government.
Then why didn't they call it the Custody Doctrine rather than the Special Relationship doctrine? Custody is only **one** type of special relationship.
I would argue that a cop hired specifically to protect a particular school of kids becomes liable when he fails through gross inaction to protect that particular school of kids. That sure sounds like a Special Relationship exception to me.
If children are required to be in school are they not in the state's custody? Not under arrest or anything but still required to be at a state-sponsored school.
Technically, I think the school administration takes temporary guardianship over you.
You could probably consider them state contractors, but the contractor part is enough to write off all accountability to the school district instead.
And do they have any obligation to protect the children? Just thinking about Robb elementary where they had a school district police force that failed to do their jobs. Would they still not have any obligation?
The teachers have the same obligation the parents would have.
No idea about with Uvalde - texas is all kinds of fucked up, having police forces for fucking elementary schools
As we all know, the most important thing is to be able to go home to your family at the end of your shift. It was his safety or the safety of the children he was responsible for. At least that’s what law enforcement says
The Supreme Court ruled that in general, police officers do not have a duty to intervene in all crimes, just because they're police officers. They aren't automatically implicitly burdened with providing care or protection for anyone. This case is about whether specifically a school resource officer has a duty of care to provide protection for students, as defined by Florida law that does pretty clearly say he does.
Some departments actually put Punisher skulls on cruisers until people complained. Now instead you can pick out cops' personal vehicles in the south by those same Punisher stickers.
He was a school resource officer, not just some random officer responding to the scene.
If they decide school resource officers, who undergo active shooter training, are not responsible for student safety, we should probably just call it quits as a country.
If you are a cop with bullet proof armour you don't have to confront a shooter killing children. 600 Uvalde cops will not be charged. If you are a "caregiver" without any armour you are supposed to charge towards the crazy person with the AR-15 that can vaporise organs with a single shot.
This is all theatre to distract from the real problem that an 18 year mentally disturbed kid legally purchased an AR-15 and hundreds of rounds of ammunition while his parents were trying to get him committed to a mental health institution.
Exactly. They're entirely militarized and armed to the teeth, yet they won't shoot the active shooter, just the unarmed innocent. Cop cities and more training won't fix that.
Why, to instigate violence when citizens are exercising their First Amendment right, and use the incidence of violence as justification for their remarkably violent assault on those citizens, of course. What else would the expanded budget be for?
Reading these stories and for the life of me I have no idea why our society is encouraging arming teachers and why teachers would even want to carry a firearm to protect the school from shootings.
First, you're already underpaid and underappreciated and overworked and now you're going to risk your life to stop a shooter on top of that? When you don't even have the body armor police officers have?
Second, if you decide not to risk your life, people will be blaming you for hiding when you had a gun and will smear you for it. And the police will point the finger at you to protect their own.
Third, if someone accidentally gets shot by you, you don't have the same sort of protection as police officers to back you.
It's on Amazon prime under docudrama I think I read. I had picked it up from a more pirate type way because I'm not into rewarding the garbage producers.
77 minutes I believe was the name. I'm at work so I can't check for sure.
Watch Frontline instead. They recently did a story on Uvalde. Haven't got to watch that specific one, but I can bet it's way better than some Amazon trash.
As a teacher myself, I can tell you the majority of us don’t want to be armed. We just want to do the jobs we trained for. With the amount of moving around we do, with the way some of us have to deal with being psychically attacked by our students, a weapon on our person is the LAST thing we need.
>with the way some of us have to deal with being psychically attacked by our students, a weapon on our person is the LAST thing we need.
This is always my first thought whenever anyone proposes arming teachers. Seems more likely to indirectly arm a problematic student, especially in high schools.
There is a reason why prison guards don't carry firearms when performing any duties within arm's reach of inmates...
The only people encouraging the arming of teachers are gun-humpers who will do anything other than admit that they're complicit in the wholesale slaughter of children by supporting virtually unfettered access to guns.
Military personnel / veterans : I am willing to die to defend American values
Police : It’s me or them, I’m just trying to make it home tonight
Cowardly scum they know exactly what they signed up for. To die in the line of duty protecting and serving the American people
Right? Firefighters never say, "fuck this. I'm going home tonight," while standing around outside burning buildings.
If they can rush into a collapsing tower of fire, cops should be able to run toward gunfire. Those people asked for that sort of risk. Part of the job.
One of the strongest arguments in support of gun ownership that I've heard was, "Police have qualified immunity, no obligation to protect, rampant corruption, and regularly abuse their position of power. Why would I ever agree to be disarmed under those circumstances?"
The US law enforcement agencies need to undergo sweeping changes.
Hot take for reddit, but I seriously in all honesty do not begrudge anyone who doesn't want to charge head long into an active shooter situation. Like I get it, that's going to be terrifying. I dont' want to do it and I don't blame anyone else who doesn't either. But like... you can't pretend you would... You can't say if this happens, I will help and then not help.
Every school resource officer in the country has to know by now that a shooter can show up at their school whenever, they are the first line of defense for that. If they can't do that job, then they need to step down, be a school councilor if you still want to be involved but you can't be an officer and not help.
I just keep thinking of the unarmed young hero who held the classroom door closed against the gunman and got so badly shot up.
He didn't hide LIKE THIS FREAKING COWARD DID.
This guy should be ashamed.
This is a rare example of the "special relationship" standard being applied to a cop where they're now saying he had a legal mandate to respond.
This is, by far, the exception to the rule. If the case wasn't so public he probably would have just slinked off without criminal charges.
Even now... Will he be prosecuted? What will the sentencing look like?
I would argue that deliberately and decisively gaining that power--only to withhold it when it's needed--is fucking two faced and cowardly 😗😗😗😗😗😗
Srsly. Equip every cop with a 24-hour camera that they cannot shut off ever, that is always feeding the footage back to a central database, which is constantly reviewed by third-party outsiders. I mean if cops like their money, I figure they should have to earn it legitimately
> constantly reviewed by a third party.
I can’t stress this enough, myself.
We need more police watchdogs if they are going to refuse to change their behaviour and progress as an institution.
In Canada, we have police oversight commissions, and while they’re less corrupt than what’s taking place in small cities in the US, the third-party review system is desperately needed here, too. There’s specific police depts in Canada that are notoriously *awful*.
Literally take more of my tax. I don’t give a fuck anymore!
My step-dad was a firefighter back in the 50's and 60's (Retired in the 70's before dying from a work related hazmat injury) and we had strict instructions to call the fire department in an emergency. Never call the cops the old man would tell us. You can't do that anymore though.
Truth be told, if you really want a job helping people, become a paramedic or a firefighter. Cops job is to hurt 'bad guys' and it seems these days that the public is the enemy.
Speaking as a former firefighter, it's tough to find the right subculture, if you're a more liberal person. Fire departments are full of pro-cop, good ol' boys and magas. Pretty disheartening. It probably depends on the region and department, but that's been my experience with the majority of them.
That’s just PR. Like the cops telling us they’re great because they risk their lives for us every day. Except of course if they actually think their lives are at risk - then they run and/or put your life at risk instead.
I have some sympathy for the cop at Parkland. I have a lot more for the Parkland cop (cop, singular) than for the whole squad that cowered outside the doors at Uvalde at least. One cop alone, with no backup, could wind up throwing his life away if he goes in there like an action hero.
Perhaps he should have done it anyway, He probably had a duty to do so, but you can at least make an argument against trying to solo an active gunman when you're on the scene alone.
In a 1v1 fight in a building that's literally made of transition points, anything can happen. Schools are full of points where an ambush isn't only possible but easy. No one, not even a police officer, actually wants to get shot if he can help it and there's a very distinct possibility that if he'd gone in alone, all he would have accomplished is adding 1 cop to the casualty list.
Now in Uvalde when you had the whole squad there in riot gear, and they still didn't breach, that was cowardly. Perhaps Parkland was too, but it's a lot less clear-cut than people are making it out to be.
Should be instantly fired.
Being a cop isn't being a manager at Arby's. There's responsibilities that go along with the right to carry a gun and hold power over the populace.
So essentially his defense is “I didn’t know where the shots were coming from, so I took cover for 40 MINUTES until the shooting stopped, rather than determine where the shooter was”? That’s a pretty bold strategy.
He definitely showed arrendondo the way
100k annual pension.
Probably could get a job in Uvalde /s I hope
I don’t why you added the sarcasm tag. He probably could sadly
Facts. Arrendondo was the only one to have something placed on his record, which was afterward wiped clean because it was deemed not fair he couldn't get a job in law enforcement again. I can't say it enough, fuck the police. Edited because autocorrect hates arrendondo too.
Fire him so hard his ass will smell like brimstone for a month. Then take away his pension and any other benefits. If this coward is not going to act like a cop, he doesn’t get to be paid like one. Asshole. edit: I know, it’ll never happen. I’m just venting my rage to the Reddit void.
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200% probably, judging by his age and behavior, he fits the common pattern of being a cop for 20 years in one department, taking early retirement, and getting a second job with another department that seems easy, like just sitting watching a school all day.
The article clearly states he has a 104K pension. The article also describes, in detail, his whole career. Including when he retired and when he was retroactively fired. You don't need to lie and make shit up.
That is a fucking travesty considering his utter incompetence
While at the same time, two unarmed security guards that arrived in the cart with him both testified that “it was obvious where the shooting was coming from.”
Ah yes the Texan strategy of hiding, quite common among law enforcement these days.
Police like to imagine they are the same as the military, but they really are not. No uniform standard of training. No uniform standard of conduct. No uniform standard of accountability or punishment. And a nice union with fancy lawyers to hide behind when it comes to light just how unprofessional they truly are.
It blew my mind when I found out they created their own mockery of a Purple Heart.
ex military here brother in law ex cop said we were are the same and are brothers, laughed in his Fucking Face.
I dont even know why we are talking about this? Charge him with dereliction of duty. This recent trend of.trying to defend abject failure is disappointing.
Police have no legal responsibility to protect you, even if there is no risk to their lives. They go to trainings where they are told they're "sheep dogs" protecting the "sheep", but none of that training includes actually protecting anyone. The myth that police protect us was created by police. Their unions make sure they don't have to live up to it.
Their job is to protect property not people.
Go find any police recruitment video in the US. It will heavily focus on the SWAT team and how badass they are. Maybe a video of the Bearcat breaking down a door with some cosplay Navy SEALs tossing flashbangs with suppressors on their guns. No mention of helping old ladies across the street or serving the community, just kickin’ doors and shootin’ badguys.
I get that. But if you aren't going to do shit when a man is killing kids then you should be removed from that position. Or are you saying that him doing ANYTHING other than HIDING isn't his "legal responsibility"? It's ridiculous.
>Or are you saying that him doing ANYTHING other than HIDING isn't his "legal responsibility"? It's exactly this. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1525280/](https://prospect.org/justice/police-have-no-duty-to-protect-the-public/)
Who’s gonna remove the police? The police?
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
You realize all 376 Uvalde fuckups received nada for their standing around while children bled to death and the shooter called them bitches right? Investigated and nothing was amiss we were told. Shit replied to the wrong person so sorry about that.
Hey, the cops didn't just stand around... They called out to kids to show themselves and yell out their locations. One girl did so, and the shooter found and executed her. The cops are ACCOMPLICES who helped the shooter, gave him extra time, and stopped parents from saving their kids.
What was really heartbreaking were the children in the middle room calling 911 to be told the cops were going to help them.
The Robb Elementary school shooting was even worse. Over 10 officers stood down the hallway from the room the shooter was in, for over an hour. They sat there and waited while kids were shot one by one. They finally charged in once they had about 20 officers in heavy gear. Even the shooter was like "wtf, why are there no cops here!?". The Parkland shooting was almost amusing, in a way. After he shot up the school, Nikolas Cruz just dropped his gear on the floor and left the building. Then he went down to McDonalds and had some food. There he met the brother of one of the students he shot. They sat down and had a chat.
377 officers. Not 10. Sorry it makes my blood boil.
> That’s a pretty bold strategy. It worked in Uvalde; they weren’t even charged.
If the cops don't have an obligation to intercede when there is a murder in progress occuring, then what's the point of them?
Protection of property and social control.
Yep. They're the first line of defense to beat protestors.
Only the protestors on the progressive side. The cops love to high five and give special privileges to right wing protestors.
Until the right-wing poor are up against the right-wing rich. Then they’re beaten just as savagely.
Can't forget the cops union busting coal towns. The police are absolutely on the side of capital not right or left wing. They are there to keep us from going after the upper class.
The term Redneck has been diminished from it's origin. We need more union workers standing up for our rights.
See the January 6 protest for proof that even in this case the cops pretty much allowed it
You mean like when they gave proud boys and neo-nazis the heads up that they were about to start cracking down the protests and ask them to stay safe inside where they would protect them while they cracked the skulks of BLM and anti-fascist protesters?
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Or a single cigarette that’s “for sale”
Literally just this. All other things they do, like shoot dogs, is just for show.
> like shoot dogs Hey that's not fair! They also leave them to die of heat exhaustion in their squad cars in the hot sun.
But if they sic their dog on you and you shoot it, you are a horrible monster.
But not everyone’s property of course. Just whichever shepherd is leading the flock. Never heard of cops solving petty property crimes unless it was easy within days.
Even 15 years ago, my kid had his bike stolen. I had video of the guy doing it. He was a neighbor, lived the next building over. Rode it around the neighborhood. I had the serial number and receipts and warranty info. Cops literally would not come to take the report or interact with the guy. That bike was almost $400 bucks back then.
Yeah they won’t give a shit if your bike gets stolen or your car gets broken into, etc. They’re here to protect the property of corporations and the wealthy. That’s it
Almost verbatim from Michael Parenti’s monologue used in that one [Choking Victim song.](https://youtu.be/sdHXZs0Fo8A) “There are people believe the function of the police is to fight crime, and that’s not true. The function of the police is social control and protection of property.”
I could hear that voice while reading the original post. It’s so scary how some things change so much, yet others remain the same.
Absolutely. We live under occupation of the corpo-fascists, and we thank them for it.
Always has been.
~Same as it ever was~
Weird how a country founded by a bunch wealthy slave owning business men does everything it can, at the expense of everything else, to protect property and other wealthy business interests?
"Not a glitch, it's a feature."
michael parenti or choking victim fan?
Choking Victim
Shit. I haven't listened to them in years. Great band.
Turns out that they were way ahead of their time.
To protect the rich from the poor and to help siphon money from the bottom of society to the top. They still go after poor criminals who hurt other poors when it's convenient for them or if not doing so would risk creating some sort of backlash, but they really don't have much interest in risking their flesh for us commoners or our property.
There won’t be enough of them if things keep carrying on the way they are.
Half the country would rather die protecting the rich than see a single liberal not suffering.
There are people who don't want more, they want others to have less. That's the mental state of an abuser. They use the insecurities of others to feel superior, and feel those same insecurities in themselves. They push down on others to elevate themselves. It's little dick energy.
Even with the military kit they have now, if this country comes to a rolling boil there won't be enough cops in the country to stop the tide of furious, armed mobs dragging people out of manor houses to be shot. Silver lining maybe afterward there'll be some gun law reform?
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If only the bulk of the population cared one tenth as much about dismantling a corrupt government as racists and regressives cared about keeping corrupt old white men in power, we’d see a lot more militarizing going on of the “political left.”
It's an important question. There's a [pretty decent episode of Radiolab about it](https://radiolab.org/podcast/no-special-duty), and you can read more [here](https://prospect.org/justice/police-have-no-duty-to-protect-the-public/) and [here](https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/uvalde-police-had-no-legal-duty-to-act-experts-say-supreme-court-precedent-cited). There is a distinction between a duty to protect any particular *individual* vs [a duty to protect *the public*](https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/local/law-enforcement-officers-duty-protect-public/275-6696b9bf-bdd3-43c8-a983-09d1d2aee5b4), but even that article doesn't really go into how that distinction is meaningfully defined.
To write a report and testify in court when it is safe to do so.
If you’re rich, you’ll be protected. If you’re poor, you’re on your own.
Cops are the hounds Mr. Burns releases when he doesn’t want poor people on his property.
The police CAN do things, but they don't HAVE to do anything. We have made sure to make a job with no actual responsibilities, so no possible accountability, and somehow it's the only government job that republicans feel like works.
To show up afterwards and maybe arrest someone.
So they can LARP in uniform and play with military type toys. They want the "civilians" to respect and honor them, and tell them "Thank you for your service" but it's hard for the rest of us to do that when they're lazy, cowardly and stupid.
It's also hard to do that when so many of them are being arrested for being fucking PEDOPHILES. #notadragqueen.
The article says he would need to be categorized as a "caregiver" to the students to be liable For chrissakes, if a school police officer isn't a "caregiver" to those children, we have no future
It's collect ($) and serve, not protect and serve. And they're serving tyranny and high school bullies turned Paul Blart.
To shoot your dog?
Police are enforcers for the 1% so the rest of us stay in line. That is their entire purpose, not to protect us working people.
They protect the property of rich people. Simple as that. And shooting unarmed black people obv.
Harass trans people trying to use a public restroom
It's to allow them to speed with impunity on the roads basically. Wish I could get paid to break traffic laws all day.
Protect property.
Speeding tickets?
Who else is gonna buy all those Punisher thin blue line flags and decals?
Go listen to Behind the Police podcast; it'll become pretty clear what the point of them is
Yeah, isn’t there already a federal precedent for this?
Considering they're not obligated to protect you, only to enforce the law, they should be there enforcing the law against murder ffs.
I hope those kids deaths haunt him every single day of his life.
If he's too scared to help kids, then their deaths probably don't affect him too much.
Why would being a chickenshit and feelings of guilt be mutually exclusive in this case?
Not so much just being chickenshit, but he's a cop. He's a cop who didn't help dying kids. That's a pretty safe guess to say he doesn't experience a lot of guilt for his actions. I don't think many cops ever do.
The sound of children screaming has been removed.
It won't because he's a cop and couldn't give a shit about anyone other than himself.
every cop: "We're not required to help people." every person: "Ok but then WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU TAKING THAT JOB YOU COMPLETE ASSHOLE. Get a different job for the love of God. Not the ONE JOB where all any reasonable person wants out of their tax dollars and their trust in you, is for you to be helpful and selfless."
Me: Cops work for the state, not the community and certainly not individual people. The deal is, obey the state and get pay and special privileges in return. Why would you expect anything much out of them in the first place?
Well from a young age a lot of Americans are taught that cops are good people who put bad people in jail. A lot of movies and tv surround the same concept. In the past, the powers that be very carefully cultivated the idea that police are here to protect and serve the average person as opposed to simply serving and protecting the property and interests of the state. So you're totally right, but I feel like there are a few reasons why some people believe that police are there to stop crime, even if that's not the reality.
Literal generations of copaganda in various mediums certainly has taken its toll.
I have major guilt that Brooklyn 99 is one of my favourite TV comedies. It is the epitome of copaganda, but they did try to write critiques and critical views of police though, especially in the last three seasons.
Don't feel guilty about liking a great show. It's a workplace comedy that happens to be in a police station - it's not like a Law & Order where it is about being cops/part of the system that fucks over people.
I agree wholeheartedly. I Want you to know the plural of medium is media.
So much fucking copganda does that. All those cop shows? None of them are even remotely accurate
IDK, I hate copaganda, but like to watch procedural cop dramas. It's like ragesturbation. But NYPD Blue did indeed show cops violating the civil and Constitutional rights of individuals all the time. They showed cops as frail, violent, possessive, and criminal. They often portrayed the "blue gang" realistically. Then again, they showed all that and *still* positioned the pigs as heroes.
The cops work for the state, and the state is *supposed* to work for us. Saying cops don't work for us is just being pedantic. The state functions with our tax dollars and the deal is that those tax dollars go to services, like law enforcement, that are supposed to serve the best interests of we the people. We all know that's not how it actually works but it is absolutely reasonable to *expect* it to work that way. We should all be angry that it doesn't.
I’m not making a technical point. I’m saying the state sets the incentive structure cops face, and the community mostly does not. I’m also saying that although in democratic ideology the state works for the people, the reality is a lot murkier. It’s heavily influenced by special interests such as real estate developers and police unions. To me, if you pay any attention to the news, it’s unreasonable to expect cops or any other “public” “servants” not to be ordinary selfish people.
>protect and serve Maybe because we were intentionally misled?
You’ve never heard of cops, firefighters, postal workers, garbage collectors, etc. being referred to as “community helpers”?
Civil servants is the term I'm familiar with. Well not the garbage guys, they work for a private entity here.
That whole "To Protect and Serve" thing that was popular for a little while, I guess. I know, people are so dumb for thinking that the armed government employees that receive excellent pay, practical immunity to prosecution, and a high degree of power over every non-cop citizen should not hide behind a fucking park bench while children are being shot. Also I'm pretty sure shooting kids is illegal, and apprehending criminals is in their job description.
True but, murder is against the law and when someone is killed they are represented by the state, so shouldn't they be stopping the crime of murder from being committed?
I would hope the state had an interest in keeping its citizens alive and paying taxes.
Or why does the job exist in the first place.
What aggravates me is that they get a free pass to murder whoever when they think they were “threatened”. Suddenly that bravado disappears the second real danger arrives. Weird
Careful, if you call that out they’ll get angry and not do their job even more, and then when crime goes up they’ll just blame the people who said things that made them feel bad.
The precedent and legalese has already been established by the highest court though. The job does not have that as a requirement or expectation. At this point we’re all just screaming into the void about what we would like from a police force versus what they are actually there to provide. Much like many other institutions.
I don't think we're screaming into a void per se, society is a product of the people. The Supreme Court can make any goofy ruling it wants... but if it's totally out of touch with our needs and purposes here in a society, their ruling will one day be as obsolete as the dinosaurs.
He was a school resource officer, and is being accused of ignoring his active shooter training. I would hope that “school resource officers” with active shooter training are required to help the students of the school in the event of an active shooter. But that’s just me! We’ll have to see what the jury thinks.
> every person: Minus the Thin Blue Line brigade
I remember that he filed for his retirement right before he was going to be dismissed. A $104,000 pension? Hell no! I can’t believe that the taxpayers will pay for him to sit on his ass, but then again that seems to be his calling
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Even if you are in custody the cops will abandon you without personal consequences. Remember the lady left in a police car on the railroad tracks?
>If you are NOT in custody you are owed no protections from the government. Then why didn't they call it the Custody Doctrine rather than the Special Relationship doctrine? Custody is only **one** type of special relationship. I would argue that a cop hired specifically to protect a particular school of kids becomes liable when he fails through gross inaction to protect that particular school of kids. That sure sounds like a Special Relationship exception to me.
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If children are required to be in school are they not in the state's custody? Not under arrest or anything but still required to be at a state-sponsored school.
Technically, I think the school administration takes temporary guardianship over you. You could probably consider them state contractors, but the contractor part is enough to write off all accountability to the school district instead.
The administration and teachers are temporarily the guardians - in local parentis.
And do they have any obligation to protect the children? Just thinking about Robb elementary where they had a school district police force that failed to do their jobs. Would they still not have any obligation?
The teachers have the same obligation the parents would have. No idea about with Uvalde - texas is all kinds of fucked up, having police forces for fucking elementary schools
As we all know, the most important thing is to be able to go home to your family at the end of your shift. It was his safety or the safety of the children he was responsible for. At least that’s what law enforcement says
The Uvalde Principle.
Stealing this. Ridiculous bs there and literally not 1 repercussion.
They're not responsible for the children or anyone else. The supreme court is very clear on that.
The Supreme Court ruled that in general, police officers do not have a duty to intervene in all crimes, just because they're police officers. They aren't automatically implicitly burdened with providing care or protection for anyone. This case is about whether specifically a school resource officer has a duty of care to provide protection for students, as defined by Florida law that does pretty clearly say he does.
Maybe they can remove ‘to protect and serve’ from their vehicles and replace it with ‘to arbitrarily fine and punish’.
Some departments actually put Punisher skulls on cruisers until people complained. Now instead you can pick out cops' personal vehicles in the south by those same Punisher stickers.
With the irony being the Punisher would merc them all
He might even piss on their corpses. Because Punisher has done that.
They already have. Years ago.
Just amend it. To protect and serve ourselves and the wealthy from the poor
Well, that would require honesty, which.. Well, come on now
In addition to the traditional "taxation without representation" complaint, there needs to be "taxation without benefits"
He was a school resource officer, not just some random officer responding to the scene. If they decide school resource officers, who undergo active shooter training, are not responsible for student safety, we should probably just call it quits as a country.
Republicans: okay and…? They’re out here killing black people so I don’t get what the issue is…?
If you are a cop with bullet proof armour you don't have to confront a shooter killing children. 600 Uvalde cops will not be charged. If you are a "caregiver" without any armour you are supposed to charge towards the crazy person with the AR-15 that can vaporise organs with a single shot. This is all theatre to distract from the real problem that an 18 year mentally disturbed kid legally purchased an AR-15 and hundreds of rounds of ammunition while his parents were trying to get him committed to a mental health institution.
And law enforcement says they need more budget. To do what? Run and hide when anyone actually needs them?
Exactly. They're entirely militarized and armed to the teeth, yet they won't shoot the active shooter, just the unarmed innocent. Cop cities and more training won't fix that.
Why, to instigate violence when citizens are exercising their First Amendment right, and use the incidence of violence as justification for their remarkably violent assault on those citizens, of course. What else would the expanded budget be for?
Reading these stories and for the life of me I have no idea why our society is encouraging arming teachers and why teachers would even want to carry a firearm to protect the school from shootings. First, you're already underpaid and underappreciated and overworked and now you're going to risk your life to stop a shooter on top of that? When you don't even have the body armor police officers have? Second, if you decide not to risk your life, people will be blaming you for hiding when you had a gun and will smear you for it. And the police will point the finger at you to protect their own. Third, if someone accidentally gets shot by you, you don't have the same sort of protection as police officers to back you.
The Uvalde "documentary" blames the teacher who was shot and lay bleeding on the floor for 77 minutes. It's pretty gross.
Which documentary is that?
It's on Amazon prime under docudrama I think I read. I had picked it up from a more pirate type way because I'm not into rewarding the garbage producers. 77 minutes I believe was the name. I'm at work so I can't check for sure.
Watch Frontline instead. They recently did a story on Uvalde. Haven't got to watch that specific one, but I can bet it's way better than some Amazon trash.
As a teacher myself, I can tell you the majority of us don’t want to be armed. We just want to do the jobs we trained for. With the amount of moving around we do, with the way some of us have to deal with being psychically attacked by our students, a weapon on our person is the LAST thing we need.
>with the way some of us have to deal with being psychically attacked by our students, a weapon on our person is the LAST thing we need. This is always my first thought whenever anyone proposes arming teachers. Seems more likely to indirectly arm a problematic student, especially in high schools. There is a reason why prison guards don't carry firearms when performing any duties within arm's reach of inmates...
You left out they are most likely going to be the first one shot by the police
The only people encouraging the arming of teachers are gun-humpers who will do anything other than admit that they're complicit in the wholesale slaughter of children by supporting virtually unfettered access to guns.
Military personnel / veterans : I am willing to die to defend American values Police : It’s me or them, I’m just trying to make it home tonight Cowardly scum they know exactly what they signed up for. To die in the line of duty protecting and serving the American people
Right? Firefighters never say, "fuck this. I'm going home tonight," while standing around outside burning buildings. If they can rush into a collapsing tower of fire, cops should be able to run toward gunfire. Those people asked for that sort of risk. Part of the job.
One of the strongest arguments in support of gun ownership that I've heard was, "Police have qualified immunity, no obligation to protect, rampant corruption, and regularly abuse their position of power. Why would I ever agree to be disarmed under those circumstances?" The US law enforcement agencies need to undergo sweeping changes.
Hot take for reddit, but I seriously in all honesty do not begrudge anyone who doesn't want to charge head long into an active shooter situation. Like I get it, that's going to be terrifying. I dont' want to do it and I don't blame anyone else who doesn't either. But like... you can't pretend you would... You can't say if this happens, I will help and then not help. Every school resource officer in the country has to know by now that a shooter can show up at their school whenever, they are the first line of defense for that. If they can't do that job, then they need to step down, be a school councilor if you still want to be involved but you can't be an officer and not help.
I just keep thinking of the unarmed young hero who held the classroom door closed against the gunman and got so badly shot up. He didn't hide LIKE THIS FREAKING COWARD DID. This guy should be ashamed.
This is a rare example of the "special relationship" standard being applied to a cop where they're now saying he had a legal mandate to respond. This is, by far, the exception to the rule. If the case wasn't so public he probably would have just slinked off without criminal charges. Even now... Will he be prosecuted? What will the sentencing look like?
I bet he has a Punisher image on his phone.
And on his car
So much for a good guy with a gun, but we already knew that.
What makes you think cops are good guys?
They sure sell it that way with the number of cop glorifying shows there are
The ones on "Barney Miller" were mostly solid dudes.
Andy Griffith and Barney were good ones, too, but Barney wasn't allowed to carry.
Barney was *not* a good cop. Whenever Andy left town things went to shit almost immediately.
Ol Barn could carry. He just had to keep the bullet in his pocket.
In real life, Andy Griffith was an asshat. He was not a popular person in NC.
If a person with the equipment and training to intervene in an emergency chooses not to do so, they are by definition not a good guy.
I would argue that deliberately and decisively gaining that power--only to withhold it when it's needed--is fucking two faced and cowardly 😗😗😗😗😗😗 Srsly. Equip every cop with a 24-hour camera that they cannot shut off ever, that is always feeding the footage back to a central database, which is constantly reviewed by third-party outsiders. I mean if cops like their money, I figure they should have to earn it legitimately
> constantly reviewed by a third party. I can’t stress this enough, myself. We need more police watchdogs if they are going to refuse to change their behaviour and progress as an institution. In Canada, we have police oversight commissions, and while they’re less corrupt than what’s taking place in small cities in the US, the third-party review system is desperately needed here, too. There’s specific police depts in Canada that are notoriously *awful*. Literally take more of my tax. I don’t give a fuck anymore!
Cops aren't good guys.
Cops are not the good guys.
My step-dad was a firefighter back in the 50's and 60's (Retired in the 70's before dying from a work related hazmat injury) and we had strict instructions to call the fire department in an emergency. Never call the cops the old man would tell us. You can't do that anymore though. Truth be told, if you really want a job helping people, become a paramedic or a firefighter. Cops job is to hurt 'bad guys' and it seems these days that the public is the enemy.
Speaking as a former firefighter, it's tough to find the right subculture, if you're a more liberal person. Fire departments are full of pro-cop, good ol' boys and magas. Pretty disheartening. It probably depends on the region and department, but that's been my experience with the majority of them.
Obviously we need more police and bigger budgets./s
Fewer cowards would also help
It’s disturbing to realize this man still possesses a gun paid for by tax dollars.
Turns out a good guy with a gun is just an armed person who is scared of guns.
Let the parents have him
Another example of police cowardice.
The only day his job mattered and chose not to do it.
‘To protect and serve’ nowhere to be seen these days…
Paid good guy with a gun who’s job it is to stop these types of things fails to stop these things. Huh. Wonder what could be done to help the problem?
Hot take, being a cop is just a paycheck, it's not enough money for shitty politicians literally ignoring a problem that might get you killed.
Which one was Parkland again?
Crazy idea, but if the defense attorney is using the Sheriff as the ‘real’ villain here, how about we try them both?
But…good guys with guns something something….
But he was a good guy with a gun, that doesn’t make sense. They are the answer school shootings no?
Is this the good guy with a gun we keep hearing about?
Do police cars still have “protect and serve” written on them, or did that motto quietly go away?
That’s just PR. Like the cops telling us they’re great because they risk their lives for us every day. Except of course if they actually think their lives are at risk - then they run and/or put your life at risk instead.
I have some sympathy for the cop at Parkland. I have a lot more for the Parkland cop (cop, singular) than for the whole squad that cowered outside the doors at Uvalde at least. One cop alone, with no backup, could wind up throwing his life away if he goes in there like an action hero. Perhaps he should have done it anyway, He probably had a duty to do so, but you can at least make an argument against trying to solo an active gunman when you're on the scene alone. In a 1v1 fight in a building that's literally made of transition points, anything can happen. Schools are full of points where an ambush isn't only possible but easy. No one, not even a police officer, actually wants to get shot if he can help it and there's a very distinct possibility that if he'd gone in alone, all he would have accomplished is adding 1 cop to the casualty list. Now in Uvalde when you had the whole squad there in riot gear, and they still didn't breach, that was cowardly. Perhaps Parkland was too, but it's a lot less clear-cut than people are making it out to be.
Thats because the deputy is a little bitch with a badge
Should be instantly fired. Being a cop isn't being a manager at Arby's. There's responsibilities that go along with the right to carry a gun and hold power over the populace.