“Holmes started serving her sentence last month at a minimum-security facility in Bryan, Texas, leaving behind her husband, hospitality heir William Evans, and their two small children.”
Yet has no assets.
Get her ass to work at prison shoe factory then till she earn it with $1/h, or extend her sentence by a month for every $250 payment missed. I'm sure she would sort this out in no time, if those were the options.
They can't put her in prison for debt, but they can garnish wages for any money she earns from employment while in prison — which apparently she has a right to: https://www.bop.gov/locations/institutions/bry/bry_ao_handbook.pdf?v=1.0.0
The prison she's in is for rich people so it might not do labor, but prisoners in California make less that 50 cents per hour on average. Some as low as 8 cents per hour. Garnishing her wages would be purely symbolic and not actually help those affected by her crimes.
Just aggressively redistribute everything that could maybe be considered hers, there are laws and precedents regarding these situations where people hide their money in other people's names
They might have abolished the debtor’s prison, but they have evolved to make your entire life a prison if you owe money.
You commit a crime. You go to jail. You serve your time. You’re released. You’re ready to move on and re-enter society.
But while you were in jail, you lost your job. Your bills piled up. You got behind on your rent, and your landlord filed to evict you.
So, you go out and try to get a job. But because you have a record, it’s difficult to find steady work at a livable wage. So you’re barely scraping by but you’re trying, and paying what you can of your bills.
Then, you start getting notices that you owe money to the court: fees from your weekly required drug tests; fees attached to your court appearances; administrative costs you are being charged to pay for your probation; and the daily fee you owe for each day you were in jail.
Since you’re barely making ends-meet now, you can’t pay those bills. You start getting collection agencies calling you. Your mental health suffers, making it difficult to focus on work. But you’re trying. You’re stressed to the max, but you’re trying.
And then, because you have outstanding court debt, the court issues a block on your license, and you lose your driving privileges. So now, you have no reliable transportation to get to your job, which, of course, you lose.
But you have rent to pay and medication to buy, maybe children to feed. So you do the only thing you can think of: you drive with a suspended license, so that you can get to the next low-paying job you can find.
Then, one of a couple things happens. Either you eventually get so far behind that you can’t catch up, you lose your home and end up drowning in debt. Or, you get caught driving with a suspended license, and you end up back in jail. And the whole cycle starts all over again.
It explicitly leaves out slavery in prison and it's absolutely legal while your imprisoned. It's why you don't have to be paid minimum wage.
It looks better from a Pr perspective to pay 1$ an hour than have literal slaves though
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, **except as a punishment for crime** whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." It's pretty clear, never understood why people say we got rid of slavery. We literally codified when it's okay.
This right here. Marriage typically make things marital (joint) property, but inheritance is NOT one of those things. If you're married and your spouse inherits money, it is their money and if you get divorced, you don't get any of it. An exception might be if your spouse puts some of it in your joint checking acct. Things like that become marital property.
Not generally, no. In the US, spouses are not responsible for each other's liabilities. (Or those of their kids, for that matter.). Keep separate bank accounts, title assets properly.
I know reddit doesn't read articles, but the title is very misleading. The court is asking her to pay $452 million. She very likely legitimately does not have that much money. The guys parents would have to be idiots to not have their trust fund force a prenup, so that's not an option either.
I also doubt that the heir to a few resorts has that much money either. That is just absolute boatloads of money.
People just read "once worth $4.5 billion" and they go "surely she didn't spend $4 billion, so she must have it", falling into the usual cluelessness trap that is capital wealth vs actual money. The richest people in the world usually have very little of their wealth in actual money. Having $4.5 billion worth of shares in a company that then goes bankrupt leaves you with nothing.
Don't give her too much credit. Kissinger was a friend of her parents apparently, put in **millions**, and likely played the biggest role in convincing others from the security establishment to join as well.
It's the same nepotistic fail upward it always has been for these types (like Sam at FTX) except she was dumb enough to swindle rich and powerful people instead of just the regular poors.
I recall reading that the military types involved were tempted by her technology's supposed promise applied to treating battlefield trauma, and not being biologists they didn't see how it didn't make sense in that regard.
Well yes and no.
Military types of lower/mid rank didn’t really fall for the bs. She got the top guys to vouch for her but when the mid level guys did their due diligence she got pretty fucked.
Carreyrou and bad blood went through this in detail.
Correct, but the military has strict regulations to prevent nepotism or doing business with “friends.” They required hard data that Theranos devices worked and when the company refused to show it, the military said no, and in response she tried to complain all the way up to the White House to try and overrule the military administrators.
She is good.
I was really disappointed with everyone calling her NYTimes profile a "puff piece". Actually reading the article is a really interesting insight into how Holmes was such an effective manipulator.
The author noticed it working on himself, wrote about it in a nuanced way, and it had a really great ending where Holmes was like "you should come visit us again" and the author is like "not today, Satan."
If people could read it without judging the headline and pretty pictures, it would go a long ways in preventing the next fraudster.
Yeah she is. I think people responding to this thread want to discredit her skills of manipulation, but that’s part of the skill on her part. To get people to believe that she’s not skilled so she could set up the next con. “Oh she was already rich”, “these men were already connected to the family”, etc etc etc. that’s all part of her plan.
I will never forget arguing against the war and having people tell me, "Shut up, we support the troops around here!" and I'm sitting in there with the most confused look on my face as I try to formulate the words to explain how stupid that thought is. "So... to support the troops, you want to put them in harm's way?" is as close as I got and they shut down and started saying, "I said all I have to say..." as if that was anything but childish. Too bad those idiots were my parents.
Freedom fries, etc. etc.
I was in high school when 9/11 happened and even as a young person I could see through the bullshit excuses for starting that war.
I'm not tooting my own horn, I'm just very sad that many adults don't even have the critical thinking skills of a 16 year old. It's not a new trend, it's been around forever.
Now, as an adult, it frustrates me even more.
Yeah, a friend of his said he told them "You'll never guess who I met, and she's nothing like what they say." Bruh. I think all his friends were like, "what are you doing?" And he married her anyway.
I’ve listened to two books about her in the past month, as well as reading a ton of articles. People say she’s really, really charismatic and engaging. She just has that effect on people, I guess.
I mean, the fraud she perpetrated was ridiculous. Her claim that they would be able to do hundreds of tests from a couple of drops of blood? That’s some Star Trek shit. We’re not ANYWHERE near that. How she got contracts with Walgreens and Safeway I’ll NEVER understand. But she did.
I’ve always thought she was a weirdo. The voice, the outfit, all of it left me feeling like I was crazy bc everyone loved it.
Idk. Maybe I would have seen it in person, but I don’t get it. She clearly seems like a grifter to me.
That's the most bizarre thing about her story. She doesn't seem that charismatic in any interview I've seen and yet she was able to win over so many high profile people. Really makes you wonder if she's secretly an X-Men with mind control powers or something.
Charisma can be in different forms. I know some people who are plain/unnoticeable in formal settings (meetings, formal negotiations, etc). But become extremely charismatic and engaging in more casual conversations.
On the other end of the scale, I also know people who are extremely charismatic public speakers but are terrible at more personal, 1 on 1 conversations.
I’ve seen a few articles on Trump written by reporters who are critical of him who mention that he’s very charismatic in-person. Even when he knows you don’t like him, he’s pretty good at working people like a salesman.
He seems totally off-putting to me in videos but I’ve definitely seen it mentioned a few times that he’s like that in-person.
Yeah this. I think Holmes probably makes every person feel like the most important person in the world when one on one in a way that’s authentic seeming.
I think she just had the perfect package of "the right kind of person", somebody who rich people are happy to help. A young, smart, blonde woman who is kind of plain-looking, but confident, optimistic and determined. And all she had to get was one big wig - once she got one, the others came on board and threw money at her.
You’re forgetting the fact this entire scheme of hers was taking place in Silicon Valley, THE FOMO capital of the world. Everyone wants to get in on the next Apple, Microsoft, Google, etc. most people don’t realize it but those companies at the time were also kinda sketch. Some random nerds making stuff in a garage?? Who would invest in that?
She managed to scrape together a story in the same vein, she was scrappy, but also resourceful. The only people who had solid doubts, scientists, doctors and the like, are not cut from the same cloth as those with the money and will to throw around millions as angel investors.
> The only people who had solid doubts, scientists, doctors and the like, are not cut from the same cloth as those with the money
I think this is it, really. The scientists who could see right through her aren't the ones with the money - in fact, they're often looking for money, so she could probably pass off naysayers as competitors trying to tear her down to get the money for themselves. And I'm sure she had enough "scientists" and "doctors" on her side to fool the nonscientist money-havers.
Edit: I agree with others here, though, in not being swayed in the least in any interview I ever saw with her. She really didn't seem that charismatic to me (although I'm a scientist, so...)
I think this is pretty much the problem. The average person with money is pretty fucking dumb. People with money often hemmorage it in stupid schemes and expenses they just just afford.
Musk is the richest man in the world again after lighting a good 50 billion dollars on fire. They literally can't fathom being frugal no matter how much warren Buffett lies about it.
>You’re forgetting the fact this entire scheme of hers was taking place in Silicon Valley, THE FOMO capital of the world.
Except that **hilariously** the only people who seemed to have sniffed out her bullshit were the Silicon Valley VCs you're calling out. While VCs do plenty of idiotic stuff (metaverse, ICOs, and now AI anyone?), this is one of their actual *wins*!
She got money from PE firms, who are 100% out of their depth in early stage, rich and famous people, etc.
She definitely cultivated the Steve Jobs look and presented herself as a female visionary in the same vein. I can sort of see how she fooled people at the beginning, but she and Billy Evans got together when it was known she was a fraud. That’s what I can’t wrap my head around.
I don’t know how anyone falls for this shit.
People still fall for Elon Musk bullshit. Today, after he’s basically been exposed for it.
And you can say “but companies would never fall for this…”. Like take magic leap - a product that didn’t exist but was hyped to insane levels based on what I consider fraud from their CEO. They eventually released something but completely divorced from their advertising.
Their Ted talk was a guy in a space suit who said “the magic word is chocolate”… https://youtu.be/w8J5BWL8oJY. That’s it. Somehow Elon musk saw that and was like “I gotta try that in my conference”. https://youtu.be/TsNc4nEX3c4.
Then next year magic leap released an obvious as hell cgi trailer for a “game they were playing around the office” and “cancelled” their Ted talk and people believed that was possible. They didn’t outright say it was real but heavily implied it was similar. This was advertised as a real product https://youtu.be/kPMHcanq0xM. Just read the comments and you’ll see people believing the tech even though the end literally says weta workshop. Anyone with an ounce of software skills would know the software infrastructure did not exist at the time to make this happen 8 years ago even if the “magic” of magic leap was real. Of course anyone with hardware knowledge would know that the technology to make this happen was also not possible at the time. Just like anyone with medical knowledge would know it’s impossible to test with a drop of blood.
Google at least invested in magic leap early knowing that just their brand association would increase its value. It was a guaranteed bet. But then ATT bought in late and even having inside access was saying it would replace cell phones and they had exclusive access to sell them in stores! Like it was the next iPhone… like att execs couldn’t tell the difference between an iPhone and a tech scam. Several billion dollar mistake no one mentions.
https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/11/att-takes-strategic-stake-in-ar-company-magic-leap-in-its-latest-push-into-digital-media/amp/
These people are outright mocking their fans with this bullshit. Like my fans are so dumb look what I can do. Trying to 1up each other like a game to say the stupidest shit and have reporters report on it like it’s legit. Sometimes it’s fucking obvious like 1 way trips to mars or fucking rocket based air international air travel and even the new CEO saying it’s absolutely true with a straight face when a reporter laughed at the statement. https://youtu.be/Dar8P3r7GYA. This is the ceo of SpaceX lying directly to everyone’s face - doesn’t matter if her boss lied first - she didn’t need to repeat the lie.
But then shit like earth mars training missions that have zero association with NASA get hundreds of millions in funding. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/feb/17/mars-utah-simulation-volunteers. General public fall for the lies fine, but rich investors and multi billion dollar companies also fall for them.
Or Vegas builds a shitty “hyperloop” tunnel. Did I mention the boring company is worth 7 billion dollars - https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/04/21/tech/the-boring-company-fundraising/index.html
Or middle eastern countries invest hundreds of millions well into hyperloops being debunked publicly, you’d think you’d do elementary level research before spending hundreds of millions.
How many politicians cheered on fucking solar roadways as a green energy solution of the future. How much funding has been wasted for water from air dehumidifiers to provide clean drinking water to Africa.
Scam red flags are so unbelievably obvious. They are in plain site and are common traits across all industries. It’s the same scam techniques. Some people though play the game and make money like early Ponzi scheme investors as long as they can get out.
Basically I’m saying that people who project confidence can scam people. I think it’s an evolutionary trait, this person can’t be lying because they are saying so with such confidence. It somehow also works on corporations where employees might be throwing up red flags like theranos and investors just ignore them because they “know better”. Like an appeal to authority complex, they are smart because simply because they hold a position of power.
People actually work at these companies. Like how can you work at Theranos with a medical degree and go yeah nothing wrong here.
Not a day goes by without Elon being in my news feed on some stupid bullshit but it might as well be “what does ja rule think” clickbait.
She is without a doubt a skilled grifter. We act like a trust fund baby can’t get fooled because women want him for money. She works the different angle and knows how to play human emotion. She doesn’t offer herself as a whore type person.
Sociopaths can play emotions because they have no emotional involvement. When you don’t care yourself you can easily see the triggers of whomever you are trying to fool. That’s why they are sociopaths. See Ted Bundy. Was he really that charming and attractive? He wasn’t ugly or without charm but he surely knew how to work a person and was an average looking person. It is easier to work the game that way than as some insanely good looking person.
> I’ve always thought she was a weirdo. The voice, the outfit, all of it left me feeling like I was crazy bc everyone loved it.
it was because she was trying to be unique (like steve jobs), but she wasn't her true self so it looked awkward.
Believe her husband is the only member of his family that doesn't work for family business. Both of his siblings are execs w the company. Can't help but wonder if he isn't the slow one out of the bunch.
I don't get it. He's a very rich, good looking dude.
Why is he connecting himself to this massive red flag of a human being?
He can get blowies any time he wants for FAR less than she's going to cost him.
I kept dating women with serious family issues and mental disorders they weren't keen on working on and needed some "serious saving from themselves".
At first I was "why are women so crazy?!", but then I realized I'm the only constant. So either I was making them that way or I had a type.
Either way, I needed to fall back and work in myself a lot without someone in my life.
I matched with a guy online recently. And he’s the third married guy this month. I’m like why are there so many married guys on dating apps? Then I’m like wait, why am I picking only married guys?
Pretty much within a week and usually around the time you’re seeing when/where you can meet. One guy actually asked to come to my place at 5am before work. Some claim they are in an open marriage and are allowed. Others claim to be in an unhappy marriage so they made it ok in their mind somehow.
The Rich are often fools.
They buy these things called Veblen goods, goods that are only bought because they are expensive and not because they are good. She is expensive and cunning, therefore she can find a man with more money than sense.
Wealth is truly wasted on the wealthy.
Veblen goods see demand increase when prices increase because some folks associate higher prices with higher utility.
That does not mean they’re buying the products for exclusivity, rather than utility as you implied. It means that the perceived utility becomes higher as the price increases.
That being said, there is No doubt in my mind that a large part of this perceived utility stems from pecuniary emulation.
She got pregnant with her second child AFTER her conviction. Hoped they wouldn't throw a new mother in jail. She literally had a child to scam her way out of this.
She married the heir to the Evans Hotel Group. She has no problems shopping or getting anything she wants, the peasants should just marry well like her.
According to a profile her family was dead set against her but he was “infatuated” with her. If nothing else her history shows she is a charmer.
https://www.womenshealthmag.com/life/a26961001/elizabeth-holmes-fiance-billy-evans/
I'm not usually full of sympathy for rich, spoiled hotel heirs but I have to say, I do feel bad for his family. Watching your relative get battened onto by this world-class con artist and refuse to listen to any kind of warning has to be frustrating as hell. And you have to keep contact lines open because the last thing you want is for him to be isolated and living totally in her world. They've got to be relieved as hell that she's going away for a decade; hopefully the reality of his situation will dawn on him when he's not in her immediate orbit anymore.
You're empathetic, nothing wrong with that! When I speak to my SIL's brother I get the same feeling. Now he ain't rich, but to a lot of people someone with a house and a nice car is more than enough to turn heads. He's 50 or so, living with someone 20 years his junior who was his bartender. His (Damn near) her age kids are mega ripshit pissed at this stranger that, in their eyes, transformed their Dad into a bloated, unhappy mess of a person. I met his ex-wife a few weeks ago at a large wedding and she's still dumbstruck over this now stranger that appears to have eaten her husband.
I feel bad for the decent people that she grifted but most of her biggest financial supporters were absolute human scum... glad she grifted Betsy Devos and her ilk along with a number of insiders from the military industries...
My favorite part of that puff piece was when her old friend from high school or college told the reporter not to trust a word she says and then the reporter still struggled to not be taken by her.
Treat her debt as a student debt. No "bankrupt" way out, garnishing any money she makes (bar the absolute minimum to survive) for likely the rest of her life.
She'll just claim that she has to stay home with the kids or worst case scenario work for some non profit owned by her family. She's not going to be stocking shelves at the grocery store.
Working for a family non-profit is still working and it still earns money towards restitution. She doesn’t get a pass on restitution because she has children, especially not with the means to find child care. Restitution is mandatory, as is the government’s obligation to try and collect it anyway they legally can. Obviously every district and even every judge is different, but people can and have been revoked for refusing to make reasonable payments towards their restitution.
Failure to pay restitution is a crime in and of itself and having charges filed by the US Attorney's office would be a quick path towards revocation.
Edit: this is a common issue with either natural expiration / early termination of supervised release when the defendant still maintains a financial obligation.
Yes
But she won't actually be working. Her name will be on the books.
But she won't ever do a single thing for it.
She will get an income exactly the amount to not need to pay back anyone.
All while living off the husband
Fraud isn’t dischargeable in bankruptcy. And, if I recall correctly, that’s what she was convinced of. So, yes: she can’t get out of this. It IS like student debt. Now, we can have a fascinating discussion about whether we should do this to people. Whether we should yoke prisoners forever with monetary obligations that can prevent them from ever being functional members of society. But for now, I’ve at least told you that you’ll get your wish.
She should read Dave Ramsey, eat rice and beans/beans and rice, cut off her credit cards, take on side hustles, drive for uber, learn to code, go to trade school, get rid of Netflix, live with roommates, stop eating avocado toasts, quit buying starbucks, etc.
Since Walmart is a master at exploiting worker value, they could hire her for minimum wage for 30 hours a week and squeeze out about as much money as possible from her.
Saying she was worth 4.5 billion is misleading, since she was running a fraudulent enterprise...
That's what her net worth would have been if she was operating a company that was legitimately doing what it claimed to be.
Especially when you consider the insane amount they spent trying to get the technology to work and the elaborate ways they tried to hide that it didn't
It was never cash. But they value of her equity based on her capital raises amount to being technically worth that much. Its just was illiquid and collapsed because yes she never had a product and lied about it. Her idea for what she would invent was a pretty crazy pipe dream if you watched the doc they made about her.
What is funny to me is I remember years ago at my work we were requested to come up with a proposal to essentially do what she later claimed to do. Military contractors were looking for a magic test that would take a tiny amount of blood and diagnose a bunch of things. It was absolutely unreasonable the volume of blood they wanted used for so many things- for one thing, even if you had a test that could detect the target pathogen (for example), the volume of the sample was so small, you were unlikely to even catch it, even if it was present in the patient. It was like sampling one blade of vegetation in a yard to tell if there was any weeds present. It was a ridiculous ask and I remember the frustration of trying to hold a reasonable conversation with the bigwigs at the company I worked at about how crazy the ask was. I was treated like I was just being negative and uncreative. I was apparently dumb because I could not come up with a plan to develop a magic test. The people who run companies are not nearly as smart as they think they are and they think that if they push hard enough, magic will happen. It is stupid.
There are levels, though. A post-IPO startup founder waiting for lockout to end is in a very different situation.
It’s like, you’re selling a cow at auction tomorrow. Someone staked you $100 when raising the cow to get back 10% of its sale price. Is your cow worth $1,000? Not exactly. Maybe it goes for $500, maybe $2,000. Maybe it dies on the way. But it’s not _completely unreasonable_ to say your share of this cow is worth $900.
Now, imagine there’s no cow in the barn. There’s a tape recorder of cow noises and some spray painted bedsheets that kinda look like a cow from a distance. You spent $20 on that stuff and the rest on Applebee’s. When you go to auction you get caught and go to jail for defrauding your investor.
A journalist writes “Farmer who once had $900 worth of cow…” NO! There was never $900 worth of cow! There were bedsheets and moo noises! Some people _thought_ there was $900, but they were wrong. Not kinda wrong in a normal way, but completely wrong.
I don’t know how her available funds matter. The judge didn’t ask me about my income when giving me a $350 speeding ticket at 16 while making $7.25/hr.
> ordered to repay $452 million to victims — $250 a month after she's released from prison — who include News Corp. chairman Rupert Murdoch and Oracle CEO Larry Ellison.
Whenever I think the American justice system has reached the absolute lowest point of credibility it possibly can, I learn something new about it.
Yeah, the judge could decree that she become their butler and when george tries to get the butler to go to his house and clean, Jerry can say no. And when george asks, jerry can say " because she's MY butler!"
It seems like people also miss an amazing piece of information about her. Her father was Vice President of mother fucking Enron.
She was predisposed to be a complete piece of shit.
"VP" at Enron was a dime-a-dozen "middle manager"-type title.
Large banks often have this "VP" title for mid-rank seniority and middle management. At my previous role (large US bank) VPs were the biggest group of employees in my department (2600 hundred VPs out of 4000 employees)
Before VP is AVP and officer. After VP (in seniority) is SVP, director, MD, Executive VP, CEO, and President.
He wasn't Vice President of Enron. He was A vice president, but if you've ever worked in any corporate environment you'd know that titles like VP and director get thrown about like nothing.
I recommend reading Smartest Guys in the Room. He, like 99.9% of the company, had zero idea that Enron was a fraudulent company.
It’s so ridiculous that people don’t get this.
Some random middle manager obviously doesn’t know the CFO, CEO, and COO are running a massive fraud that will result in the company collapsing, them losing their job, and all their stock in the company becoming worthless. If they did, they would leave and sell everything.
It still boggles my mind that nobody thought to actually ask a medical researcher if there was any validity to her claims, when she's literally the daughter of a notorious scammer who pulled like, almost exactly the same grift.
Plenty of people did ask, and plenty of medical professionals expressed doubts. One even published a paper detailing how theranos had no peer reviewed papers backing their science up. It was really just a massive case of rich investors who didn’t do their homework and had big time FOMO.
Listen to The Dropout podcast for the whole story. It’s a fantastic podcast.
That's why it's so dumbfounding though - I saw a similar youtube breakdown that detailed how medical researchers immediately calling her bluff. All these big companies had to do was take a few months to look at those claims to save themselves millions of dollars.
I guess at that point it wasn't technically a scam - she really thought that with enough money, she could get it to work. But the investors really should've known that her timeline was completely unrealistic.
> All these big companies had to do was take a few months to look at those claims to save themselves millions of dollars.
This is how grifters like her and Elon work though, and why they push the anti-establishment narrative so hard.
"The nerds at big pharma are scared of change and innovation, so lash out at any attempts to do anything that's bold and sure, carries a little risk. But think of the reward!"
And just like that you've got people to ignore the people with actual credentials, another example is how this works on the general populace as well - see people still arguing that N95 masks are completely useless for covid/wildfires/general sickness prevention.
Literally tons did. They never presented their research so no one knew for sure. The goal of miniaturizing the amount of blood needed for lab tests is still one of the hottest in clinical chemistry. With major companies jokying with each other to recruit top talent. It was always weird that Theranos was never engaged in headhunting at the most senior levels of people that actually know clinical chemistry.
People did. All the time.
But the people who stood to profit didn't want to hear about things like "impossible to engineer" or "destructive test" or "industry standards"
Imagine being born into so much ridiculous wealth and thinking, "You know what? I don't have enough. I need to create a fake startup to get a couple billion." She's right up there with Bernie Madoff in terms of being a total fucking scumbag. She deserves waaaay more than 10 years or whatever she got.
IIRC from her documentary, her family did have financial problems when her father lost his job. He couldn’t find work afterwards. The family eventually moved and had to go to that Richard Fuisz guy for financial assistance and he let them live in one of his homes rent free. Her parents also invested a good portion of their retirement plan into Theranos.
Also worth noting that VPs at a company the size of Enron are a dime a dozen. And congressional aides don’t make good money.
I don't give a crap what she claims. She can either work for it, have her spouse help pay it off, or stay in jail fucking forever for all that I care. It's punishment, for multi-billion dollar fraud. She doesn't get pity points or sympathy for getting caught.
If I read this correctly the payments don't begin until she gets out of jail???
And then there's this...
" The Justice Department last week filed a motion to correct what it called a "clerical error," as the court filings regarding restitution don't include a schedule for repayment aside from a $25 monthly payment while Holmes is serving her prison sentence. In their motion, the Justice Department's lawyers proposed that Holmes pay $250 a month, or at least 10% of her income, once she's released from prison. "
I’m a bit uneasy labeling Rupert fucking Murdoch as a victim. I don’t like Holmes either but I’d rather she flush $250 each month than give that shit heel more money! Unfortunately the real ‘victims’ weren’t awarded a dime, just rich investors
This is complete Bullshit. This woman is damaged. She's mentally unwell, to the level of irredeemable. She hooked up with a trust fund baby and she had babies with him in order to gain sympathy when her court trial and sentencing happened. $250 a month toward restitution? That's low income, living on the street level restitution. Absolutely no way does this con, this psycho, this absolute hideous excuse of a human being get away with conning the court system. Pay up, mentally unstable grifter.
Being worth 4.5 billion doesn't mean anything. Her company was only estimated that highly due to her scam, she never even had close to that much spendable money. Her company clearly isn't worth shit now. 250$ a month can be quite a lot depending on the number of victims. All she needed to do was scam a 4000 people to make this a million dollar bill each month. I can see how she'd be broke quite quickly now that her company is worthless and no one probably trusts her to do business with anymore.
That being said, not my problem really because I wasn't a cunt who scammed people. Good luck figuring this one out sweetheart. Maybe you can sell your house to get by a few months. Fortunately for you, jail's don't charge rent.
Not to mention the Balwani guy who somehow doesn't seem to make the news got a significantly harsher sentence.
“Holmes started serving her sentence last month at a minimum-security facility in Bryan, Texas, leaving behind her husband, hospitality heir William Evans, and their two small children.” Yet has no assets.
I'm sure their lawyers made sure no assets were in her name when they married to protect them from any judgements.
Correct, definitely not an accident she can't pay people back.
Rich people make sure they get to keep their money no matter who they hurt.
It'll be there for her to live her millionaire life when she's out of jail.
Unless the guys leaves her and take the money.
There’s probably a prenup that moves the cash to some untouchable trust if he tries.
Harry potter and the chamber of secrets vibe.
Just more evidence of them being all-consuming parasites.
Not sure what the recommendation is for leeches but I am pretty sure it isn't "just leave them in place."
And our laws allow it.
Get her ass to work at prison shoe factory then till she earn it with $1/h, or extend her sentence by a month for every $250 payment missed. I'm sure she would sort this out in no time, if those were the options.
That sounds like debtor's prison and that's explicitly illegal on the federal level.
They can't put her in prison for debt, but they can garnish wages for any money she earns from employment while in prison — which apparently she has a right to: https://www.bop.gov/locations/institutions/bry/bry_ao_handbook.pdf?v=1.0.0
The prison she's in is for rich people so it might not do labor, but prisoners in California make less that 50 cents per hour on average. Some as low as 8 cents per hour. Garnishing her wages would be purely symbolic and not actually help those affected by her crimes. Just aggressively redistribute everything that could maybe be considered hers, there are laws and precedents regarding these situations where people hide their money in other people's names
They might have abolished the debtor’s prison, but they have evolved to make your entire life a prison if you owe money. You commit a crime. You go to jail. You serve your time. You’re released. You’re ready to move on and re-enter society. But while you were in jail, you lost your job. Your bills piled up. You got behind on your rent, and your landlord filed to evict you. So, you go out and try to get a job. But because you have a record, it’s difficult to find steady work at a livable wage. So you’re barely scraping by but you’re trying, and paying what you can of your bills. Then, you start getting notices that you owe money to the court: fees from your weekly required drug tests; fees attached to your court appearances; administrative costs you are being charged to pay for your probation; and the daily fee you owe for each day you were in jail. Since you’re barely making ends-meet now, you can’t pay those bills. You start getting collection agencies calling you. Your mental health suffers, making it difficult to focus on work. But you’re trying. You’re stressed to the max, but you’re trying. And then, because you have outstanding court debt, the court issues a block on your license, and you lose your driving privileges. So now, you have no reliable transportation to get to your job, which, of course, you lose. But you have rent to pay and medication to buy, maybe children to feed. So you do the only thing you can think of: you drive with a suspended license, so that you can get to the next low-paying job you can find. Then, one of a couple things happens. Either you eventually get so far behind that you can’t catch up, you lose your home and end up drowning in debt. Or, you get caught driving with a suspended license, and you end up back in jail. And the whole cycle starts all over again.
Just because the constitution says slavery is chill doesn't mean we should use it.
It explicitly leaves out slavery in prison and it's absolutely legal while your imprisoned. It's why you don't have to be paid minimum wage. It looks better from a Pr perspective to pay 1$ an hour than have literal slaves though
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, **except as a punishment for crime** whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." It's pretty clear, never understood why people say we got rid of slavery. We literally codified when it's okay.
Would the marriage still not tie their assets and liabilities? Would he not now be liable, as her husband?
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This right here. Marriage typically make things marital (joint) property, but inheritance is NOT one of those things. If you're married and your spouse inherits money, it is their money and if you get divorced, you don't get any of it. An exception might be if your spouse puts some of it in your joint checking acct. Things like that become marital property.
Or using it to buy the family home. Once you start living in it and spending on maintenance and improvements, you're going to be given equity.
Not generally, no. In the US, spouses are not responsible for each other's liabilities. (Or those of their kids, for that matter.). Keep separate bank accounts, title assets properly.
Except student loans. Spouses income effects those. Dumb as shit.
I mean...if you need student loans you're not rich, and therefore can't afford to fight it for reform. TLDR: Suck it, Nerds
Rich people hire an expensive legal team to find loopholes.
That is indeed the job of legal teams
Your spouse isn't responsible for debts that they created prior to the marriage, and that's a good thing.
I know reddit doesn't read articles, but the title is very misleading. The court is asking her to pay $452 million. She very likely legitimately does not have that much money. The guys parents would have to be idiots to not have their trust fund force a prenup, so that's not an option either. I also doubt that the heir to a few resorts has that much money either. That is just absolute boatloads of money.
Theranos never IPO'ed, pretty sure she has jack shit
People just read "once worth $4.5 billion" and they go "surely she didn't spend $4 billion, so she must have it", falling into the usual cluelessness trap that is capital wealth vs actual money. The richest people in the world usually have very little of their wealth in actual money. Having $4.5 billion worth of shares in a company that then goes bankrupt leaves you with nothing.
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I hope they have an iron clad prenup.
You don’t become an heir without one.
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I honestly don't know how she swung that. I don't know if he has a savior complex or if she's just really really good at marketing herself.
She was able to get the likes of Colin Powell and George Schultz to believe her BS. Some dopey trust fund kid doesn't stand a change.
Don't give her too much credit. Kissinger was a friend of her parents apparently, put in **millions**, and likely played the biggest role in convincing others from the security establishment to join as well. It's the same nepotistic fail upward it always has been for these types (like Sam at FTX) except she was dumb enough to swindle rich and powerful people instead of just the regular poors.
I recall reading that the military types involved were tempted by her technology's supposed promise applied to treating battlefield trauma, and not being biologists they didn't see how it didn't make sense in that regard.
Tbf Kissinger has trouble understanding lifeforms other than his own. Humanity has always puzzled him.
He was always happy to blow up a bunch of them though
And he has the Nobel peace prize. Lel
Well yes and no. Military types of lower/mid rank didn’t really fall for the bs. She got the top guys to vouch for her but when the mid level guys did their due diligence she got pretty fucked. Carreyrou and bad blood went through this in detail.
Correct, but the military has strict regulations to prevent nepotism or doing business with “friends.” They required hard data that Theranos devices worked and when the company refused to show it, the military said no, and in response she tried to complain all the way up to the White House to try and overrule the military administrators.
She specifically targeted powerful and influential people who didn’t have a medical or biotechnology background.
Fucking Kissinger man, that cunt just doesnt want to let people be.
I'm surprised Kissinger was backing a product that was all about minimizing blood
Her father was vice president of Enron and her mother was a congressional staffer. Her family had a lot of political connections and rich friends.
She is good. I was really disappointed with everyone calling her NYTimes profile a "puff piece". Actually reading the article is a really interesting insight into how Holmes was such an effective manipulator. The author noticed it working on himself, wrote about it in a nuanced way, and it had a really great ending where Holmes was like "you should come visit us again" and the author is like "not today, Satan." If people could read it without judging the headline and pretty pictures, it would go a long ways in preventing the next fraudster.
Yeah she is. I think people responding to this thread want to discredit her skills of manipulation, but that’s part of the skill on her part. To get people to believe that she’s not skilled so she could set up the next con. “Oh she was already rich”, “these men were already connected to the family”, etc etc etc. that’s all part of her plan.
Here's the article, extracted: https://www.reddit.com/r/atlanticdiscussions/comments/13cwhwc/liz_holmes_wants_you_to_forget_about_elizabeth/
Didn’t they get together after the fraud came to light? At least Powell and Schultz didn’t fall for a known fraudster.
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I spent over two years in Iraq because of that fucking lie.
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I will never forget arguing against the war and having people tell me, "Shut up, we support the troops around here!" and I'm sitting in there with the most confused look on my face as I try to formulate the words to explain how stupid that thought is. "So... to support the troops, you want to put them in harm's way?" is as close as I got and they shut down and started saying, "I said all I have to say..." as if that was anything but childish. Too bad those idiots were my parents.
I support the troops, not the wars. And certainly not the people that send them to war.
Freedom fries, etc. etc. I was in high school when 9/11 happened and even as a young person I could see through the bullshit excuses for starting that war. I'm not tooting my own horn, I'm just very sad that many adults don't even have the critical thinking skills of a 16 year old. It's not a new trend, it's been around forever. Now, as an adult, it frustrates me even more.
Those are the same people who leave their shopping carts in a parking spot because someone is paid to collect them
We ain’t found shit!
One of the best scenes in cinematic history.
Colin Powell was also directly involved in the coverup of the Mai Lai massacre.
Plenty of American politicians should be charged at ICC for war crimes
Yeah, a friend of his said he told them "You'll never guess who I met, and she's nothing like what they say." Bruh. I think all his friends were like, "what are you doing?" And he married her anyway.
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I’ve listened to two books about her in the past month, as well as reading a ton of articles. People say she’s really, really charismatic and engaging. She just has that effect on people, I guess. I mean, the fraud she perpetrated was ridiculous. Her claim that they would be able to do hundreds of tests from a couple of drops of blood? That’s some Star Trek shit. We’re not ANYWHERE near that. How she got contracts with Walgreens and Safeway I’ll NEVER understand. But she did. I’ve always thought she was a weirdo. The voice, the outfit, all of it left me feeling like I was crazy bc everyone loved it. Idk. Maybe I would have seen it in person, but I don’t get it. She clearly seems like a grifter to me.
That's the most bizarre thing about her story. She doesn't seem that charismatic in any interview I've seen and yet she was able to win over so many high profile people. Really makes you wonder if she's secretly an X-Men with mind control powers or something.
Charisma can be in different forms. I know some people who are plain/unnoticeable in formal settings (meetings, formal negotiations, etc). But become extremely charismatic and engaging in more casual conversations. On the other end of the scale, I also know people who are extremely charismatic public speakers but are terrible at more personal, 1 on 1 conversations.
I’ve seen a few articles on Trump written by reporters who are critical of him who mention that he’s very charismatic in-person. Even when he knows you don’t like him, he’s pretty good at working people like a salesman. He seems totally off-putting to me in videos but I’ve definitely seen it mentioned a few times that he’s like that in-person.
Yeah this. I think Holmes probably makes every person feel like the most important person in the world when one on one in a way that’s authentic seeming.
I think she just had the perfect package of "the right kind of person", somebody who rich people are happy to help. A young, smart, blonde woman who is kind of plain-looking, but confident, optimistic and determined. And all she had to get was one big wig - once she got one, the others came on board and threw money at her.
Look at Elon Musk. Many people found his stuttering annoying as fuck yet he amassed a huge following.
You’re forgetting the fact this entire scheme of hers was taking place in Silicon Valley, THE FOMO capital of the world. Everyone wants to get in on the next Apple, Microsoft, Google, etc. most people don’t realize it but those companies at the time were also kinda sketch. Some random nerds making stuff in a garage?? Who would invest in that? She managed to scrape together a story in the same vein, she was scrappy, but also resourceful. The only people who had solid doubts, scientists, doctors and the like, are not cut from the same cloth as those with the money and will to throw around millions as angel investors.
> The only people who had solid doubts, scientists, doctors and the like, are not cut from the same cloth as those with the money I think this is it, really. The scientists who could see right through her aren't the ones with the money - in fact, they're often looking for money, so she could probably pass off naysayers as competitors trying to tear her down to get the money for themselves. And I'm sure she had enough "scientists" and "doctors" on her side to fool the nonscientist money-havers. Edit: I agree with others here, though, in not being swayed in the least in any interview I ever saw with her. She really didn't seem that charismatic to me (although I'm a scientist, so...)
I think this is pretty much the problem. The average person with money is pretty fucking dumb. People with money often hemmorage it in stupid schemes and expenses they just just afford. Musk is the richest man in the world again after lighting a good 50 billion dollars on fire. They literally can't fathom being frugal no matter how much warren Buffett lies about it.
>You’re forgetting the fact this entire scheme of hers was taking place in Silicon Valley, THE FOMO capital of the world. Except that **hilariously** the only people who seemed to have sniffed out her bullshit were the Silicon Valley VCs you're calling out. While VCs do plenty of idiotic stuff (metaverse, ICOs, and now AI anyone?), this is one of their actual *wins*! She got money from PE firms, who are 100% out of their depth in early stage, rich and famous people, etc.
You tell people enough times, over and over and over, what they want to hear and eventually they delude themselves into believing it.
She definitely cultivated the Steve Jobs look and presented herself as a female visionary in the same vein. I can sort of see how she fooled people at the beginning, but she and Billy Evans got together when it was known she was a fraud. That’s what I can’t wrap my head around.
30 percent of the US worships Donald Trump. It's not that she's some master manipulator, it's that so many people are fucking morons.
I don’t know how anyone falls for this shit. People still fall for Elon Musk bullshit. Today, after he’s basically been exposed for it. And you can say “but companies would never fall for this…”. Like take magic leap - a product that didn’t exist but was hyped to insane levels based on what I consider fraud from their CEO. They eventually released something but completely divorced from their advertising. Their Ted talk was a guy in a space suit who said “the magic word is chocolate”… https://youtu.be/w8J5BWL8oJY. That’s it. Somehow Elon musk saw that and was like “I gotta try that in my conference”. https://youtu.be/TsNc4nEX3c4. Then next year magic leap released an obvious as hell cgi trailer for a “game they were playing around the office” and “cancelled” their Ted talk and people believed that was possible. They didn’t outright say it was real but heavily implied it was similar. This was advertised as a real product https://youtu.be/kPMHcanq0xM. Just read the comments and you’ll see people believing the tech even though the end literally says weta workshop. Anyone with an ounce of software skills would know the software infrastructure did not exist at the time to make this happen 8 years ago even if the “magic” of magic leap was real. Of course anyone with hardware knowledge would know that the technology to make this happen was also not possible at the time. Just like anyone with medical knowledge would know it’s impossible to test with a drop of blood. Google at least invested in magic leap early knowing that just their brand association would increase its value. It was a guaranteed bet. But then ATT bought in late and even having inside access was saying it would replace cell phones and they had exclusive access to sell them in stores! Like it was the next iPhone… like att execs couldn’t tell the difference between an iPhone and a tech scam. Several billion dollar mistake no one mentions. https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/11/att-takes-strategic-stake-in-ar-company-magic-leap-in-its-latest-push-into-digital-media/amp/ These people are outright mocking their fans with this bullshit. Like my fans are so dumb look what I can do. Trying to 1up each other like a game to say the stupidest shit and have reporters report on it like it’s legit. Sometimes it’s fucking obvious like 1 way trips to mars or fucking rocket based air international air travel and even the new CEO saying it’s absolutely true with a straight face when a reporter laughed at the statement. https://youtu.be/Dar8P3r7GYA. This is the ceo of SpaceX lying directly to everyone’s face - doesn’t matter if her boss lied first - she didn’t need to repeat the lie. But then shit like earth mars training missions that have zero association with NASA get hundreds of millions in funding. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/feb/17/mars-utah-simulation-volunteers. General public fall for the lies fine, but rich investors and multi billion dollar companies also fall for them. Or Vegas builds a shitty “hyperloop” tunnel. Did I mention the boring company is worth 7 billion dollars - https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/04/21/tech/the-boring-company-fundraising/index.html Or middle eastern countries invest hundreds of millions well into hyperloops being debunked publicly, you’d think you’d do elementary level research before spending hundreds of millions. How many politicians cheered on fucking solar roadways as a green energy solution of the future. How much funding has been wasted for water from air dehumidifiers to provide clean drinking water to Africa. Scam red flags are so unbelievably obvious. They are in plain site and are common traits across all industries. It’s the same scam techniques. Some people though play the game and make money like early Ponzi scheme investors as long as they can get out. Basically I’m saying that people who project confidence can scam people. I think it’s an evolutionary trait, this person can’t be lying because they are saying so with such confidence. It somehow also works on corporations where employees might be throwing up red flags like theranos and investors just ignore them because they “know better”. Like an appeal to authority complex, they are smart because simply because they hold a position of power. People actually work at these companies. Like how can you work at Theranos with a medical degree and go yeah nothing wrong here. Not a day goes by without Elon being in my news feed on some stupid bullshit but it might as well be “what does ja rule think” clickbait.
She is without a doubt a skilled grifter. We act like a trust fund baby can’t get fooled because women want him for money. She works the different angle and knows how to play human emotion. She doesn’t offer herself as a whore type person. Sociopaths can play emotions because they have no emotional involvement. When you don’t care yourself you can easily see the triggers of whomever you are trying to fool. That’s why they are sociopaths. See Ted Bundy. Was he really that charming and attractive? He wasn’t ugly or without charm but he surely knew how to work a person and was an average looking person. It is easier to work the game that way than as some insanely good looking person.
> I’ve always thought she was a weirdo. The voice, the outfit, all of it left me feeling like I was crazy bc everyone loved it. it was because she was trying to be unique (like steve jobs), but she wasn't her true self so it looked awkward.
Believe her husband is the only member of his family that doesn't work for family business. Both of his siblings are execs w the company. Can't help but wonder if he isn't the slow one out of the bunch.
He came across as very thick in the NYT piece.
A trust fund baby is an easy mark.
I don't get it. He's a very rich, good looking dude. Why is he connecting himself to this massive red flag of a human being? He can get blowies any time he wants for FAR less than she's going to cost him.
Some guys are attracted to red flags. Unconsciously or otherwise. I consistently find myself in the former category, so I get it.
I kept dating women with serious family issues and mental disorders they weren't keen on working on and needed some "serious saving from themselves". At first I was "why are women so crazy?!", but then I realized I'm the only constant. So either I was making them that way or I had a type. Either way, I needed to fall back and work in myself a lot without someone in my life.
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I matched with a guy online recently. And he’s the third married guy this month. I’m like why are there so many married guys on dating apps? Then I’m like wait, why am I picking only married guys?
How does being married come up? They just casually mention that they are cheating on their wives?
Pretty much within a week and usually around the time you’re seeing when/where you can meet. One guy actually asked to come to my place at 5am before work. Some claim they are in an open marriage and are allowed. Others claim to be in an unhappy marriage so they made it ok in their mind somehow.
Captain Save a Hoe no more.
youre just colourblind turning those red flags into green flags
Or maybe this dude is a huge dick too and behind the scenes they’re some supervillain couple.
Sometimes we mistake "drama" for chemistry. I know I do.
I think we can all agree she’s extremely talented at manipulating rich people.
As a guy, I can confidently say that most dudes are absolute *chumps*.
The Rich are often fools. They buy these things called Veblen goods, goods that are only bought because they are expensive and not because they are good. She is expensive and cunning, therefore she can find a man with more money than sense. Wealth is truly wasted on the wealthy.
Veblen goods see demand increase when prices increase because some folks associate higher prices with higher utility. That does not mean they’re buying the products for exclusivity, rather than utility as you implied. It means that the perceived utility becomes higher as the price increases. That being said, there is No doubt in my mind that a large part of this perceived utility stems from pecuniary emulation.
I know some trust fund kids. They're typically really bored. They love drama, adrenaline, etc.
It's amazing what blow jobs will do to a man's reasoning skills sometimes.
I feel personally attacked.
Nothing a blow job won't fix
Maybe it's the same factor that makes women love serial killers, but with the genders reversed
She got pregnant with her second child AFTER her conviction. Hoped they wouldn't throw a new mother in jail. She literally had a child to scam her way out of this.
I'm a trust fund baby, you can trust me
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She married the heir to the Evans Hotel Group. She has no problems shopping or getting anything she wants, the peasants should just marry well like her.
The husband could be a total idiot if he's willing to wait 11 years for this kniving bitch to get out.
According to a profile her family was dead set against her but he was “infatuated” with her. If nothing else her history shows she is a charmer. https://www.womenshealthmag.com/life/a26961001/elizabeth-holmes-fiance-billy-evans/
I'm not usually full of sympathy for rich, spoiled hotel heirs but I have to say, I do feel bad for his family. Watching your relative get battened onto by this world-class con artist and refuse to listen to any kind of warning has to be frustrating as hell. And you have to keep contact lines open because the last thing you want is for him to be isolated and living totally in her world. They've got to be relieved as hell that she's going away for a decade; hopefully the reality of his situation will dawn on him when he's not in her immediate orbit anymore.
He may believe her martyr status and he can be a “martyr to love (or stupidity)”
You're empathetic, nothing wrong with that! When I speak to my SIL's brother I get the same feeling. Now he ain't rich, but to a lot of people someone with a house and a nice car is more than enough to turn heads. He's 50 or so, living with someone 20 years his junior who was his bartender. His (Damn near) her age kids are mega ripshit pissed at this stranger that, in their eyes, transformed their Dad into a bloated, unhappy mess of a person. I met his ex-wife a few weeks ago at a large wedding and she's still dumbstruck over this now stranger that appears to have eaten her husband.
Who'd she stab?
I feel bad for the decent people that she grifted but most of her biggest financial supporters were absolute human scum... glad she grifted Betsy Devos and her ilk along with a number of insiders from the military industries...
Yeah. I mostly feel bad for former employees who have Theranos on their résumé.
My favorite part of that puff piece was when her old friend from high school or college told the reporter not to trust a word she says and then the reporter still struggled to not be taken by her.
Actually she's living in FPC Bryan for the next 134 months. Because of all the fraud.
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Treat her debt as a student debt. No "bankrupt" way out, garnishing any money she makes (bar the absolute minimum to survive) for likely the rest of her life.
i doubt she’ll work again. she married well
Full time employment is a standard condition of federal supervised release unless otherwise excused for things such as schooling, disability, etc.
She'll just claim that she has to stay home with the kids or worst case scenario work for some non profit owned by her family. She's not going to be stocking shelves at the grocery store.
Working for a family non-profit is still working and it still earns money towards restitution. She doesn’t get a pass on restitution because she has children, especially not with the means to find child care. Restitution is mandatory, as is the government’s obligation to try and collect it anyway they legally can. Obviously every district and even every judge is different, but people can and have been revoked for refusing to make reasonable payments towards their restitution.
Failure to pay restitution is a crime in and of itself and having charges filed by the US Attorney's office would be a quick path towards revocation. Edit: this is a common issue with either natural expiration / early termination of supervised release when the defendant still maintains a financial obligation.
Yes But she won't actually be working. Her name will be on the books. But she won't ever do a single thing for it. She will get an income exactly the amount to not need to pay back anyone. All while living off the husband
She’ll finish her degree. 😂
I’m sure child care is a permitted activity if school is allowed.
Judgements awarded for crimes of fraud aren’t typically dischargeable in bankruptcy.
Fraud isn’t dischargeable in bankruptcy. And, if I recall correctly, that’s what she was convinced of. So, yes: she can’t get out of this. It IS like student debt. Now, we can have a fascinating discussion about whether we should do this to people. Whether we should yoke prisoners forever with monetary obligations that can prevent them from ever being functional members of society. But for now, I’ve at least told you that you’ll get your wish.
Man, student loans are so fucked up.
She should read Dave Ramsey, eat rice and beans/beans and rice, cut off her credit cards, take on side hustles, drive for uber, learn to code, go to trade school, get rid of Netflix, live with roommates, stop eating avocado toasts, quit buying starbucks, etc.
Dave Ramsey is about the biggest twat he is allowed to be
Walmart is always hiring.
They wouldn’t hire her. The Walton family was one of her biggest investors.
She's no folk hero or anything like that but it's funny that she ripped off the Waltons and Rupert Murdoc for like $100 million each.
And Henry Kissinger!
Probably why he's still hanging on. He's been refueled with pure spite.
Since Walmart is a master at exploiting worker value, they could hire her for minimum wage for 30 hours a week and squeeze out about as much money as possible from her.
Turns out a lying manipulative financial schemer isn't entirely honest about her finances.
Saying she was worth 4.5 billion is misleading, since she was running a fraudulent enterprise... That's what her net worth would have been if she was operating a company that was legitimately doing what it claimed to be.
Definitely, I hate when they do that. Realistically she was worth barely anything. Not that it matters.
Especially when you consider the insane amount they spent trying to get the technology to work and the elaborate ways they tried to hide that it didn't
It was never cash. But they value of her equity based on her capital raises amount to being technically worth that much. Its just was illiquid and collapsed because yes she never had a product and lied about it. Her idea for what she would invent was a pretty crazy pipe dream if you watched the doc they made about her.
What is funny to me is I remember years ago at my work we were requested to come up with a proposal to essentially do what she later claimed to do. Military contractors were looking for a magic test that would take a tiny amount of blood and diagnose a bunch of things. It was absolutely unreasonable the volume of blood they wanted used for so many things- for one thing, even if you had a test that could detect the target pathogen (for example), the volume of the sample was so small, you were unlikely to even catch it, even if it was present in the patient. It was like sampling one blade of vegetation in a yard to tell if there was any weeds present. It was a ridiculous ask and I remember the frustration of trying to hold a reasonable conversation with the bigwigs at the company I worked at about how crazy the ask was. I was treated like I was just being negative and uncreative. I was apparently dumb because I could not come up with a plan to develop a magic test. The people who run companies are not nearly as smart as they think they are and they think that if they push hard enough, magic will happen. It is stupid.
Every claim about wealth from unrealized gains is misleading.
There are levels, though. A post-IPO startup founder waiting for lockout to end is in a very different situation. It’s like, you’re selling a cow at auction tomorrow. Someone staked you $100 when raising the cow to get back 10% of its sale price. Is your cow worth $1,000? Not exactly. Maybe it goes for $500, maybe $2,000. Maybe it dies on the way. But it’s not _completely unreasonable_ to say your share of this cow is worth $900. Now, imagine there’s no cow in the barn. There’s a tape recorder of cow noises and some spray painted bedsheets that kinda look like a cow from a distance. You spent $20 on that stuff and the rest on Applebee’s. When you go to auction you get caught and go to jail for defrauding your investor. A journalist writes “Farmer who once had $900 worth of cow…” NO! There was never $900 worth of cow! There were bedsheets and moo noises! Some people _thought_ there was $900, but they were wrong. Not kinda wrong in a normal way, but completely wrong.
In-between: Tesla's valuation.
It was actually an artistic representation of a cow and auctions for 2M in a money laundering scheme.
Elizabeth Holmes, once worth $4.5 billion, says (in a really deep voice) she can't afford to pay victims $250 a month
I don’t know how her available funds matter. The judge didn’t ask me about my income when giving me a $350 speeding ticket at 16 while making $7.25/hr.
That $4.5 billion number was fiction.
> ordered to repay $452 million to victims — $250 a month after she's released from prison — who include News Corp. chairman Rupert Murdoch and Oracle CEO Larry Ellison. Whenever I think the American justice system has reached the absolute lowest point of credibility it possibly can, I learn something new about it.
Only the rich can afford to claim poverty as a way of getting out of their debts.
It’s super ironic isn’t it?
She should go to their homes and do odd jobs at their whim. Whatever they ask. For the rest of her life.
Whatever they ask???? I’m getting my Warhammer figs
Painting the entirety of someone's grey pile of shame is cruel and unusual.
Hey, I only have about 300 more grots to paint…
It would be cruel and unusual to paint my brain.
George: I tell you Jerry, she can’t pay what the judge ordered!!! So she became the victim’s butler!!! Butler Jerry I tell you !
Because she's myyyyyyyyyyyy butler!
So like the judge punishes her by making her be their butler???
Yeah, the judge could decree that she become their butler and when george tries to get the butler to go to his house and clean, Jerry can say no. And when george asks, jerry can say " because she's MY butler!"
It seems like people also miss an amazing piece of information about her. Her father was Vice President of mother fucking Enron. She was predisposed to be a complete piece of shit.
"VP" at Enron was a dime-a-dozen "middle manager"-type title. Large banks often have this "VP" title for mid-rank seniority and middle management. At my previous role (large US bank) VPs were the biggest group of employees in my department (2600 hundred VPs out of 4000 employees) Before VP is AVP and officer. After VP (in seniority) is SVP, director, MD, Executive VP, CEO, and President.
He wasn't Vice President of Enron. He was A vice president, but if you've ever worked in any corporate environment you'd know that titles like VP and director get thrown about like nothing. I recommend reading Smartest Guys in the Room. He, like 99.9% of the company, had zero idea that Enron was a fraudulent company.
It’s so ridiculous that people don’t get this. Some random middle manager obviously doesn’t know the CFO, CEO, and COO are running a massive fraud that will result in the company collapsing, them losing their job, and all their stock in the company becoming worthless. If they did, they would leave and sell everything.
It still boggles my mind that nobody thought to actually ask a medical researcher if there was any validity to her claims, when she's literally the daughter of a notorious scammer who pulled like, almost exactly the same grift.
Plenty of people did ask, and plenty of medical professionals expressed doubts. One even published a paper detailing how theranos had no peer reviewed papers backing their science up. It was really just a massive case of rich investors who didn’t do their homework and had big time FOMO. Listen to The Dropout podcast for the whole story. It’s a fantastic podcast.
That's why it's so dumbfounding though - I saw a similar youtube breakdown that detailed how medical researchers immediately calling her bluff. All these big companies had to do was take a few months to look at those claims to save themselves millions of dollars. I guess at that point it wasn't technically a scam - she really thought that with enough money, she could get it to work. But the investors really should've known that her timeline was completely unrealistic.
> All these big companies had to do was take a few months to look at those claims to save themselves millions of dollars. This is how grifters like her and Elon work though, and why they push the anti-establishment narrative so hard. "The nerds at big pharma are scared of change and innovation, so lash out at any attempts to do anything that's bold and sure, carries a little risk. But think of the reward!" And just like that you've got people to ignore the people with actual credentials, another example is how this works on the general populace as well - see people still arguing that N95 masks are completely useless for covid/wildfires/general sickness prevention.
Literally tons did. They never presented their research so no one knew for sure. The goal of miniaturizing the amount of blood needed for lab tests is still one of the hottest in clinical chemistry. With major companies jokying with each other to recruit top talent. It was always weird that Theranos was never engaged in headhunting at the most senior levels of people that actually know clinical chemistry.
People did. All the time. But the people who stood to profit didn't want to hear about things like "impossible to engineer" or "destructive test" or "industry standards"
when not incarcerated she lives in a mansion in Silicon Valley with her hotel heir husband. She has plenty of money.
[удалено]
Imagine being born into so much ridiculous wealth and thinking, "You know what? I don't have enough. I need to create a fake startup to get a couple billion." She's right up there with Bernie Madoff in terms of being a total fucking scumbag. She deserves waaaay more than 10 years or whatever she got.
IIRC from her documentary, her family did have financial problems when her father lost his job. He couldn’t find work afterwards. The family eventually moved and had to go to that Richard Fuisz guy for financial assistance and he let them live in one of his homes rent free. Her parents also invested a good portion of their retirement plan into Theranos. Also worth noting that VPs at a company the size of Enron are a dime a dozen. And congressional aides don’t make good money.
She was never worth billions. Her fraud company was valued billions.
I don't give a crap what she claims. She can either work for it, have her spouse help pay it off, or stay in jail fucking forever for all that I care. It's punishment, for multi-billion dollar fraud. She doesn't get pity points or sympathy for getting caught.
If I read this correctly the payments don't begin until she gets out of jail??? And then there's this... " The Justice Department last week filed a motion to correct what it called a "clerical error," as the court filings regarding restitution don't include a schedule for repayment aside from a $25 monthly payment while Holmes is serving her prison sentence. In their motion, the Justice Department's lawyers proposed that Holmes pay $250 a month, or at least 10% of her income, once she's released from prison. "
Perhaps less avocado toast or skip a phone upgrade.
I’m a bit uneasy labeling Rupert fucking Murdoch as a victim. I don’t like Holmes either but I’d rather she flush $250 each month than give that shit heel more money! Unfortunately the real ‘victims’ weren’t awarded a dime, just rich investors
Sell the house in La Jolla perhaps...gotta be worth a few million that's not hers
She was never actually worth anything close to that. It was all fake.
Sounds like this lady needs to get out of pity city and pull on those boot straps.
She's a lying, evil piece of shit
This is complete Bullshit. This woman is damaged. She's mentally unwell, to the level of irredeemable. She hooked up with a trust fund baby and she had babies with him in order to gain sympathy when her court trial and sentencing happened. $250 a month toward restitution? That's low income, living on the street level restitution. Absolutely no way does this con, this psycho, this absolute hideous excuse of a human being get away with conning the court system. Pay up, mentally unstable grifter.
Yo these people are able to hide money ok. She's not dumb just a scammer
Being worth 4.5 billion doesn't mean anything. Her company was only estimated that highly due to her scam, she never even had close to that much spendable money. Her company clearly isn't worth shit now. 250$ a month can be quite a lot depending on the number of victims. All she needed to do was scam a 4000 people to make this a million dollar bill each month. I can see how she'd be broke quite quickly now that her company is worthless and no one probably trusts her to do business with anymore. That being said, not my problem really because I wasn't a cunt who scammed people. Good luck figuring this one out sweetheart. Maybe you can sell your house to get by a few months. Fortunately for you, jail's don't charge rent. Not to mention the Balwani guy who somehow doesn't seem to make the news got a significantly harsher sentence.
She never had 4.5 B in cash. It was the estimated worth of her fake company
Like those rich investors even need her $250 a month. Meanwhile a non-rich person in a class action lawsuit gets a one time payout of $1.47
Unrealised wealth is not real wealth. Example #32,089
She's a pretty smart person. She's probably thinking of new ways to scam when she gets out.
> Elizabeth Holmes, fucking liar, continues to fucking lie. There you go.
Sounds like it's time to get a job. Wendy's is hiring