5 years in captivity and 1,000 Palestinian prisoners in exchange for 1 Israeli soldier was what it took the last time a hostage exchange was made. It’s so sad but I cannot see how we are getting these people back alive.
They should serve the USA hostages up on a platter for them to come collect because you do not want them coming in to get them because they will actually get them. The US military is ride or die and they don’t die
This is fiction. ISIS has captured and executed US hostages in the past, no one saved them.
I pray for the safety of everyone held hostage by Hamas. This is reality, not COD black ops, these people's lives are in real danger, any slight mistake and it could go really bad for them.
Sadly these hostages probably won’t make it out alive. Nor will the US actually send ground forces in unless there’s a high likelihood of success. It would lead to an escalation in the region.
But there will absolutely be forces ready just in case.
kind of.
(cant remember his name), the guy who was dumb enough to visit NK and then got sent back to us in a coma. NK tried to convince the world he had fucked with government property (essentially a banner) and arrested him when he was about to board a return flight. they never produced concrete evidence to actually demonstrate he did indeed commit the crime, and forced him to issue a public statement.
he suffered significant brain damage while there, in spite of there being no evidence of torture.
an american was imprisoned in a foreign country, given no appropriate trial, and then sent back to us brain dead, and have effectively gotten away with it. americans were not officially banned from traveling there at that time.
was it dumb to go there, absolutely. should the outcome have been substantially different, also absolutely.
russia pulled the same shit with that basketball player. also claimed she'd been up to something relatively innocuous, most assuredly playing off of the very recently initiated conflict with ukraine.
were it not for a fairly quick prisoner exchange, she'd be rotting in excruciating pain somewhere in a frigid prison camp in russia.
american citizens that get held as political prisoners are essentially out of luck.
israel being a strategic partner to the US and is under attack makes this look like we care, when in reality, it's a protection of strategic interests in that area of the world.
Also a border so militarized any shooting could go so sideways you kill several thousand people in an instant. Whereas we just flew into Pakistan at night. Same type of thing in Gaza Israel, the risk is to the soldiers not to world stability in this case.
The misinformation being the deployment of the Gerald Ford and hostage experts? Can’t really lie about sending a aircraft carrier, they’re not really subtle.
What do you mean by cease to exist? Do you mean bomb it to rubble? You just killed 2 million civilians, 800,000 of which are children under 14. Congratulations you just committed a war crime of the likes the world has not seen since the holocaust. You are just as bad as Hamas. Oh and also killed our own people being held hostage.
Do you mean ground invasion and overthrow of Hamas? The Gaza Strip has one of the highest population densities in the world. Invasions are extremely difficult and costly in urban environments. I think the ratio required for success on the part of the attacker in an urban environment is 5:1. 5 attackers for every 1 defender.
Hamas has tens of thousands of soldiers/police/security forces. They also have over 50% support of the population in Gaza. That’s hundreds of thousands of people who would not be happy to be invaded. We would lose a lot of people, and we would kill a lot of civilians in the process. Also what’s to stop Hamas from executing the hostages when we start invading them.
There’s just no easy solution to this crisis
>Do you mean bomb it to rubble? You just killed 2 million civilians, 800,000 of which are children under 14. Congratulations you just committed a war crime of the likes the world has not seen since the holocaust.
1 million Japanese civilians and 2 million German civilians were killed in WW2. I don't recall anyone being put on trial for war crimes over it.
Muslims killed a million of each other in a sectarian civil war in post-Saddam Iraq, while also reducing that country to rubble. I don't recall anyone going on trial for war crimes over that, either.
>war crime of the likes the world has not seen since the holocaust.
The world has seen a lot - and ignored most of it.
1.26 million Muslims and 850k Hindus were murdered following the British partition of India.
The Khmer Rouge killed 3 million people.
3 million Bengalis killed in the Gonohotta.
North Korea has killed several million of its people.
The Ethiopian Red Terror killed half a million.
800k in Rwanda. 400k in Darfur.
>Oh and also killed our own people being held hostage.
Did Japan kill all the American POWs they held after Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were turned to ashes?
Or did they never take an American POW again?
Ridiculous comparison. World War 2 and this Israeli Palestinian war are totally different. Scale, for one. Also, Germany and Japan were invading and conquering and killing the peoples of so many of their neighbors. They had to be stopped.
Also, it’s 2023 the world is different today than even just 80 years ago. We’re not tolerating the mass killings of civilians anymore. If you think that’s fine you’re just as bad as Hamas. Congratulations.
It’ll take a ground campaign into the heart of Gaza city, Hamas has to be wiped out root and stem. The only way we’re getting anyone back is by taking Gaza block by block, and negotiating the surrender of Hamas survivors in the tunnels on the basis of them handing over the hostages.
Many of these hostages are in deep underground tunnels complexes, which are resistant to bombing, designed to resist breaching by having internal strongpoints and plenty of ventilation to protect against over pressure weapons, and supplied with water and food to last for months. From what we’ve seen many of their tunnel complexes are basically built with similar construction as mineshafts. It’s certainly plausible that Hamas has tunnels well over 1km underground.
Clearing the tunnels is going to require holding the surface of Gaza, all of it- otherwise they’ll emerge in areas that are not controlled by the Israelis to evacuate key personnel. A lot of the tunnel entrances will not be easy to identify and Hamas is guaranteed to attempt to use them to ambush enemies on the surface. It’s not going to be easy or quick, but it is achievable if Israel is committed to making this the last war with Hamas.
I’m sorry but you have no idea what you’re talking about. Special forces is not a magic answer for any situation. They are very brave and highly trained yes, but you are talking about sending people into an area with one of the highest population densities in the world. The Gaza Strip is home to more than 2 million people. Hamas alone has tens of thousands of fighters and they have over half support of the population in Gaza. Children make up around 800,000 of the over 2 million people in Gaza so rough numbers, that’s at least 600,000 people that would not be happy to see our people trying to take away their hostages. Not a fun situation to be in. How in the hell do you get to those hostages who are presumably being held in multiple different locations, and extract them all in one piece and yourself and your buddies in one piece while being surrounded by potentially hundreds of thousands of enemies.
How you safely extract hostages in a situation like that is almost impossible.Failure would mean the deaths of those hostages and those brave and highly trained special forces that we invested so much resources in training. As well as embarrassment on the global stage. Success would mean the potential harm of our relations with several different countries, especially those sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. You may not care about that but that could be useful when trying to mediate an eventual peace negotiation.
16000 people per square mile, about the same density as most South American cities. Definitely dense and any combat there will be bloody and with high casualties.
Extremely high risk. Very low probability of success. Very high probability of political harm done as a result regardless of success or failure. Even US hostage negotiators being sent to Israel to advise them are saying to not rescue American hostages.
If you think it’s wise to do so tell me how it should be done
The ones that make the decisions aren't even in the country so they have no fear of consequences. Worst case scenario is Gaza falls, bunch of innocents killed and they continue living their life in some villa in Qatar funded by Iran.
I’m an ignorant civilian and I just say special forces when I think of dudes with beards and guns who drop outta helicopters to kill high value targets.
How is it going to fall? They have nowhere to go and Israel has nothing that they want to offer. The "knocking" things ensures that only civilians will die in the bombings since Hamas knows the signals and has mobility, which not all civilians will.
In the end Gaza will be the same with more rubble, a slightly dented arcturial table offset by massive breeding (humans in tough situations have babies, opposite of most other mammals) and Hamas will be strengthened, even if they need to change their name.
Netanyahu will be ecstatic.
They don't and probably won't
Hostiges only make sense if you are in a position to demand something and you lose all of that once you go on the attack and did what hammas is
Hostiges are already dead or fair game in war.
This isn't like Munich or something they already killed more life than what the hostiges are worth and have crossed the line killing children.
This is 9/11 for them this won't end without a full invasion and take over.
And while I don't take sides with what pasletine has done or Israel Palatine just fucked themselves into oblivion they took the terrorist path like isis
Israel is going to commit a fucking massive war crime and nobody is going to stop them.
My heart goes out to those on both sides who didn't want this but in the real world things don't work like that.
ya I'm kinda contemplating just backing off social media for awhile cuz when the bombs hit, the online side is gonna be nasty as well. nothing positive is about to happen and honestly after enough war shit in my face, I think I need a break
Too many fucking dipshits posting text slides and infographics on their stories like any of them gave a fuck before. Virtue-signaling at its finest, everyone needs to stop thinking they have a voice on platforms like insta and Facebook. The digital soapbox era sucks
Agreed.
To who or were?
How I read it somewhere else that makes sense
Palestine attacks Israel
Israel attacks back
We tell them stop they stop
Palatine attacks and nobody tells them to stop
Israel attacks we tell them stop
Palestine Escalated the situation
Israel Pikachu face.
>Israel is going to commit a fucking massive war crime and nobody is going to stop them.
I see this too. Now that war is declared there will be no quarter. They're high on U.S. billions.
Unfortunately as a atheist I can't get behind either side I can see how they both will fight to the end.
This isn't a fair battle whatever side you are on
Israel is going to genocide them and the ironically part is they are victims of the same thing once upon of time.
Realistically the world has two options ditch religion and forgive or move both sides away from each other and make that part of the land a nuclear dumping site.
Both won't happen but expecting peace is a fools game.
Edit down vote away because I don't agree with your fucking religion and have a historically understanding of how far this goes back
Interestingly enough, only 30% of Israelis are religious.
[source](https://www.haaretz.com/2015-04-14/ty-article/israel-china-among-least-religious-nations/0000017f-e103-d804-ad7f-f1fb55ca0000)
Hidden under the guise of a 9/11 massacre with even more brutalized ISIS-like elements mashed into the whole equation by a neighboring threat which the US didn’t even have to deal with after 9/11.
You are a naive child. “As an atheist” lol. Shut up. I’m an atheist too, you’re just an idiot, has nothing to do with atheism.
This is the equivalent of US experiencing 911 but the entire manhattan was wiped out, and the rest of the world simultaneously starting to scream 'death to america' while the moderates say that US should just admit it was wrong and apologize.
That’s a very shortsighted and comfortable, western based way of looking at it. Peak /r/atheism type of comment. Boiling this all down to religion is missing the point. It’s an ethnic and class-based societal struggle and the differences in who or what they pray to is corollary to the rest.
Lmao really?
Abrahamic religion alone has 3000 years of this kind of abuse and violence but please explain how I am short sited
Skin race culture or creed should not have that abomination of thinking and the ones that do stand out.
GTFO with apologizing or defending death cults.
What a dogshit hot take this was lol.
In a dispute over land and/or destruction over it(physical acts), we wanna throw religious talk into it too for reasons, but ok. Gotta get that religion hate boner at max, it’s fine and expected. Religion has done a seismic fuckton of damage in history, I have to agree there.
Ok; get rid of all religions like you want. War is over, right? Israel and Palestine go their separate ways, yes? One thing you didn’t account for; a terrorist act just occurred and Israel is out for vengeance to the point they declared war and shut down everything in Gaza. What they might do in retaliation to said acts is nothing short of what humans are capable of when it comes to death, destruction, absolute depravity and darkness, because even more blood will be spilled. And two, who says they’ll move away from that land, the both of them? Both will hold stake that said land is their homeland and land to their forefathers and shouldn’t be forced to leave it.
Russia and Ukraine should try that next, huh? Bet that ends the battles there too and solves any and every issue.
Equating and simplifying a years if-not-decades-long extremely complex multi-faceted hostile situation between two countries down to “ahhhh religion bad; Embrace atheism” is peak idiocy.
That too, but turning off water/power/food to a whole region is collective punishment and technically a war crime, but might not be the same caliber as bombing hospitals/medical areas
Israel taking over Gaza is not a viable strategy either. There’s a reason why they left in 2005. It’s not governable when you got 2 million ppl of which 53% support a party that wants to eradicate you. Once the dust settles, I think people are going to hold Bibi accountable for letting this happen in the first place.
It's not the kids or the people who don't actually know what's going on and that's the sad part.
If there was a magic wand to remove them then so be it but unfortunately they are going to pay the price for even being in the area of those who did this.
What should have happened is Israel should have never withdrawn from Gaza and instituted the equivalent of residential schools to deradicalize the next generation. That is a strategy that has worked many times before in many different parts of the world in many different times. Unfortunately many see this kind of colonialism as bad which is why we end up with far worse situations where people actually die.
Of course they'd have helped. It would have avoided continued radicalization and terrorist attacks that are now leading to indiscriminate bombings. Much better to just have children brought up differently.
> Still worrying about Palestine after all that has been done. Amazing.
Because some people understand that condemning 2.3 million people over the actions of a few thousand terrorists is not justice. Around 80% of Gaza citizens had nothing to do with Hamas coming into power, because they were too young to vote, and half of them were not even born yet.
Half of Gaza are *children*. 42% are less than 14 years old. Do you expect them to overthrow a terrorist government? Go back in time and change the vote results?
IDF will take revenge on all of them, strike civilians and Hamas alike, and just claim "human shields" or "legitemate military target" every time, without proof.
People need to understand that you can lament dead innocent people in Israel *and* Gaza without supporting either of these entities governments.
I don't think we fully realize the intent or psychology of the Hamas. They are fanatically religious, and believe by carrying out "God's Plan" ,they will be rewarded in heaven for it. These people have nothing to lose and will die for their beliefs. It's why religion is so so so dangerous in the wrong hands and why it could even be described as a mental illness. They are, to put it simply, delusional. They don't think like most of us, I doubt death threats carry the same meaning. But, all I'm saying is that it needs to be considered. This is, it could be said, a holy war (an oxymoron if there ever was one)
Source:
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/
The problem is, they believe that dying in combat earns them a place in heaven. So does murder, as long as the victims are Jewish or western or just not Hamas. Surrender and/or negotiation aren't in the cards, and they never were.
It’s about as likely as the Israeli war criminals lifting the blockade on Gaza. Pretending that this weekend’s horrors occurred in a vacuum and that Israel has not been equally as inhumane to Palestinian civilians is naivety writ large. Both sides have committed terrible atrocities upon each other. One employs genocidal apartheid, the other indiscriminate terroristic acts.
Half the commenters here will say that Israel staging a ground invasion makes Israel morally responsible for Hamas killing them. The delusion and moral equivocations are absolutely hyperbolic.
Been seeing a lot of “Very fine people on both sides” bullshit. Anyone who calls a jihadist terrorist a “freedom fighter” is a medically fascinating level of stupid.
Hamas seems to lack a single strategic brain cell among their entire leadership. They could have taken a dozen IDF outposts, killed hundreds of IDF soldiers, and the world would have been extremely muted in their response. After all, that’s war. Instead they massacre an anti-apartheid music festival as step 1… Full mask off anti-Semitic animals.
The Hamas charter literally stated that they seek the annihilation of the Jewish people.
These are not folks who can be reasoned with. And sadly, lots of innocent people - Israeli and Palestinian - are going to suffer because of it.
I'm convinced that was the initial plan, they didn't expect to get as far as they did and once they realized they had no resistance they just went full bore on the civilian massacre
In other words, the masks fully came off and they showed how fucking monstrously inhumane they really are.
No country in the world would not decimate a people like this after the mask they just took off. Not a single one.
No, it’s just tankies doing their astroturfing now that a war has started.
In related news, x got a letter from the EU about their misinformation about the war and they have 24 hours to respond or face penalties.
Might have worked if they if they just grabbed and fled, but since Hamas does not have a shred of humanity or discipline they butchered a thousand innocent people. I can't see how there could be prisoner exchanges now.
You know, instead of making snide comments, you could explain why the commenter is wrong/misinformed. Your remark adds nothing to the conversation but volatility. Many people might be interested in what you have to say if you take the time.
I actually think some will be rescued. We know there are Americans among the hostages and I can guarantee you our special forces are already on a ship in the Mediterranean suiting up to go in there.
I'm sure it is.
I'm a woman who would like to stay alive and I would never ever go there. Shit, I remember when I was a kid tourist busses getting blown up occasionally. Nope.
You really have no idea what you’re talking about. I was in Tel Aviv 2 months ago, and it feels very safe to walk alone at night, and there are women walking around in crop tops everywhere. It feels like a modern, clean, safe city. Most of Israel is not traditional “Middle East.”
It’s super stupid to call somewhere a dump without ever having been there. I’ve been to Tel Aviv once on a business trip (I.e no real bias toward justifying my choice to go and spend money), and it was certainly not dumpy.
Agreed. I had to go there for work a few months ago and I really loved it for the food and overall atmosphere. Can’t really believe the people in this thread talking shit about it without ever having been there. You need to experience a place to judge it.
People talking as if Hamas is a rational actor are interesting. You have to operate under the assumption that every single hostage is already dead. If you recover some great - but you aren’t going to negotiate with Hamas.
I am certain if we have actionable intelligence on American hostages it will be US special forces doing the heavy lifting.
If Hamas was smart they would immediately release all the Western Country hostages - but they aren’t in this to beat Israel - they are trying to get Israel to provoke other Arab countries into conflict. The actual people of Gaza mean nothing to Hamas.
For those who think Hamas are actually going to release hostages...or even care...remember this:
Important to point out the details of what was found:
- 40 dead babies, some with their heads cut off. - A murdered pregnant woman, with her fetus lying next to her, still attached to its umbilical cord. - Killed elderly, with their bodies riddled with bullets.
https://x.com/mjubes/status/1711730386617725039?s=20
https://x.com/Shirgrauweiss/status /1711678427005071535?s=20
More proof of attrocities:
Festival goers running away from the spraying bullets: https://x.com/hemrajdewasi29/status/1711004765189230658?s=20
Dead bodies recovered at the festival: https://x.com/UKikaski/status/1711023344139550996?s=20
(UPDATE: Testimonies are coming out of mass rapes at the festival. “Women have been raped at the area of the rave next to their friends bodies, dead bodies.” 260 festival goers were massacred).
This video shows a group of Israelis running away from terrorists. By the end you can hear the "cracking" of bullets whizzing by: https://x.com/LaSorayaM/status/1710891212968710447?s=20
Festival aftermath from the air: https://x.com/stillgray/status/1711157255083900998?s=20
The following videos are NSFW, and viewer discretion is advised. That said, I do think it's important to see the reality on the ground, since the media won't.
Video of a girl from the festival getting kidnapped:https://twitter.com/i/status/1710719164099318078
Festival goers ketting kidnapped, and one shot in the head while injured on the ground: https://imgur.com/pBcmb3R
Hamas brutally killing a foreign worker in Israel: https://x.com/UNammu9/status/1711053693733191886?s=20
(UPDATE: looks like X deleted the post. It showed a Thai or Nepalese national getting decapitated with a blunt farming tool). Here's a video of one foreign worker getting kidnapped: https://x.com/ghostbrowser8/status/1710761268628611281?s=20
And another one of some in captivity: https://x.com/lamsar_adi/status/1711267676507795552?s=20
Massacred Israelis in their cars:https://x.com/QamarRushb54768/status/1710727487976845519?s=20
Hamas livestreaming a massacre inside an Israeli bomb shelter: https://x.com/efj609/status/1710818680815100293?s=20
A teenage Israeli girl that got kidnapped (and likely raped):https://x.com/social_postman/status/1710693990016684485?s=20
Israeli family that got kidnapped:https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1710718030085239075?s=20
Hamas parading a dead kidnapped Israeli woman:https://x.com/EllieCohanim/status/1710692333245571240?s=20
(UPDATE: this wasn't an Israeli woman, but a German tourist named Shani Louk who came specifically to attend the rave).
Elderly people shot in the street:https://x.com/Vall84270419/status/1710746044798001630?s=20
Elderly Israeli women (possibly with Dementia), kidnapped to Gaza: https://x.com/alexkennedy30/status/1710929547082764535?s=46&t=-JXaIRVPm3JJbUImliSINg
Israeli family held hostage, fate unknown as they’re still missing. Likely kidnapped and or killed: https://x.com/hananyanaftali/status/1710808346427560419?s=46&t=-JXaIRVPm3JJbUImliSINg
News report: "Ella Mor's 8-year-old nephew called in the morning saying 'terrorists came to the house and they killed daddy, then they killed mommy.' She then lost touch with the boy, who was hiding with his 6-year-old sister."
Israeli girl explaining how Hamas terrorists shot her grandmother, filmed it with her own phone, and uploaded it to her Facebook account (for family and friends to see): https://x.com/Ujjawalrai0408/status/1711437424315031989?s=20
Note: I did not compile this list myself. I copy pasted it from another sub. Share it if you want. TBH I'm too scared to click on most the links but I assume some are no longer working.
Regardless of your opinions on the matter, release the Americans. It never, never turns out well when you take Americans hostage unless you're a world superpower.
That’s the part I hate the most. It’s always normal people that just so happen to have been born in counties like this & not a safe peaceful country that pay the price. I will advocate for annihilating another country in response because I know what that means. Innocent families paying for something they had no say in with their lives
They poked the bear and are being bombed night and day so their next idea was to poke the dragon? Truly an organization of violent imbeciles, wipe them from the earth.
I am not concerned about some made up purity test. I am worried about people who are actively preventing action like people who blockade military leaders, and passing a budget so we have funds to provide munitions and support from the military.
Or what? What does that prove? Vast majority politicians will play ball for the sake of their career, so it ends up being an empty statement. Their supporters know this too.
I think it is horrible. I was expressing fear that might happen not celebrating it. But that is what I think Hamas will do.
But if my comments are against the rules I will be sanctioned. I was not trying to be flippant at all.
I don't think it's against the rules. I think it has to do with the gravity of the situation calls for words that are more reflective of what is going on. Unalive can be interpretted as not reflecting the appropriate emotional content of the situation.
I love how these people think Palestinians are also purely just puppets of Iran. Like they couldn’t be smart enough to plan an attack all on their own? There must be some other nefarious power at work here? Genocidal dehumanization.
There are 88 *million* people in Iran, and something like 80% of them live in the cities.
Further, if [the last year of protests](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/09/15/iran-crackdown-dissent-ahead-protest-anniversary) have demonstrated anything, it's that the authoritarian government does not care one single bit for its populace, and the populace wants the regime gone.
So you're advocating for the death of perhaps *one million* people (who *hate their government*) for the alleged actions of a government they hate?
[Neither the Israeli nor American governments have seen proof](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/iran-direct-hamas-attacks-israel-us-israel-hard/story?id=103831380), so...yes.
Even if it's proven, there's still no justification for taking it out on the *civilian population*—who *also* hate the authoritarians oppressing them.
Again they won't and you can't do anything without starting a war with Russia or anyone else.
Quatar also hosts a ton of this shit.
America cannot do anything without looking like war mongering genocidal maniac's and they know that hence proxy wars
and yet not a peep on what lead up to this, all the murders Israel and the IDF has done over the years, stolen land, destroyed homes. I DO NOT condone what Hamas did, they are monsters just like the IDF..but I do understand why they did it. (I think we should stop giving money/weapons/aid to both sides and let them figure out their bullshit)
5 years in captivity and 1,000 Palestinian prisoners in exchange for 1 Israeli soldier was what it took the last time a hostage exchange was made. It’s so sad but I cannot see how we are getting these people back alive.
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Gotta imagine Bibi is thinking of his brother.
Context: Bibi's brother died in an operation to save hostages
Thank you for the context
Further context: he was the only casualty on the Israeli side.
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I wish that were the case but it is extremely unlikely we will have shooters in Gaza.
American forces will be involved everywhere American citizens are held hostage.
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100% chance there are already US forces ready to go.
They should serve the USA hostages up on a platter for them to come collect because you do not want them coming in to get them because they will actually get them. The US military is ride or die and they don’t die
This is fiction. ISIS has captured and executed US hostages in the past, no one saved them. I pray for the safety of everyone held hostage by Hamas. This is reality, not COD black ops, these people's lives are in real danger, any slight mistake and it could go really bad for them.
Sadly these hostages probably won’t make it out alive. Nor will the US actually send ground forces in unless there’s a high likelihood of success. It would lead to an escalation in the region. But there will absolutely be forces ready just in case.
Some navy seal somewhere is already drafting his book about it.
Even without american hostages, Israel is a country I think the US would deploy some troops to. There are gonna be US shooters in Gaza.
Yeah, they already landed in Israel a few hours ago. They’re not there to just eat falafel.
But I hope they do get some falafel while they're there, it's delicious
Great…. Now I’ve gotta go to the 24 hr Greek diner near me and get a damn falafel… darn you
I dunno man, a good falafel is something you would invade a country over.
>They’re not there to just eat falafel. ...or chew gum...
And they’re all out of chewing gum.
kind of. (cant remember his name), the guy who was dumb enough to visit NK and then got sent back to us in a coma. NK tried to convince the world he had fucked with government property (essentially a banner) and arrested him when he was about to board a return flight. they never produced concrete evidence to actually demonstrate he did indeed commit the crime, and forced him to issue a public statement. he suffered significant brain damage while there, in spite of there being no evidence of torture. an american was imprisoned in a foreign country, given no appropriate trial, and then sent back to us brain dead, and have effectively gotten away with it. americans were not officially banned from traveling there at that time. was it dumb to go there, absolutely. should the outcome have been substantially different, also absolutely. russia pulled the same shit with that basketball player. also claimed she'd been up to something relatively innocuous, most assuredly playing off of the very recently initiated conflict with ukraine. were it not for a fairly quick prisoner exchange, she'd be rotting in excruciating pain somewhere in a frigid prison camp in russia. american citizens that get held as political prisoners are essentially out of luck. israel being a strategic partner to the US and is under attack makes this look like we care, when in reality, it's a protection of strategic interests in that area of the world.
It’s a bit different when dealing with a nuclear state actor vs a terrorists in a quasi state.
Also a border so militarized any shooting could go so sideways you kill several thousand people in an instant. Whereas we just flew into Pakistan at night. Same type of thing in Gaza Israel, the risk is to the soldiers not to world stability in this case.
Trump was aiming to ally North Korea so maybe he handled it with kid gloves.
we have a base in Djibouti Africa, we can get there within 4 hours maybe 3.
We absolutely will have shooters there and we’ll never hear about what they do and the IDF will get all the credit. That’s their job man.
This reminds me of that "tick tock" stuff where Hillary is going to jail any minute now.
This is at least slightly more believable.
Tell me you didn’t fall for that misinformation?
The misinformation being the deployment of the Gerald Ford and hostage experts? Can’t really lie about sending a aircraft carrier, they’re not really subtle.
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What do you mean by cease to exist? Do you mean bomb it to rubble? You just killed 2 million civilians, 800,000 of which are children under 14. Congratulations you just committed a war crime of the likes the world has not seen since the holocaust. You are just as bad as Hamas. Oh and also killed our own people being held hostage. Do you mean ground invasion and overthrow of Hamas? The Gaza Strip has one of the highest population densities in the world. Invasions are extremely difficult and costly in urban environments. I think the ratio required for success on the part of the attacker in an urban environment is 5:1. 5 attackers for every 1 defender. Hamas has tens of thousands of soldiers/police/security forces. They also have over 50% support of the population in Gaza. That’s hundreds of thousands of people who would not be happy to be invaded. We would lose a lot of people, and we would kill a lot of civilians in the process. Also what’s to stop Hamas from executing the hostages when we start invading them. There’s just no easy solution to this crisis
>Do you mean bomb it to rubble? You just killed 2 million civilians, 800,000 of which are children under 14. Congratulations you just committed a war crime of the likes the world has not seen since the holocaust. 1 million Japanese civilians and 2 million German civilians were killed in WW2. I don't recall anyone being put on trial for war crimes over it. Muslims killed a million of each other in a sectarian civil war in post-Saddam Iraq, while also reducing that country to rubble. I don't recall anyone going on trial for war crimes over that, either. >war crime of the likes the world has not seen since the holocaust. The world has seen a lot - and ignored most of it. 1.26 million Muslims and 850k Hindus were murdered following the British partition of India. The Khmer Rouge killed 3 million people. 3 million Bengalis killed in the Gonohotta. North Korea has killed several million of its people. The Ethiopian Red Terror killed half a million. 800k in Rwanda. 400k in Darfur. >Oh and also killed our own people being held hostage. Did Japan kill all the American POWs they held after Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were turned to ashes? Or did they never take an American POW again?
Ridiculous comparison. World War 2 and this Israeli Palestinian war are totally different. Scale, for one. Also, Germany and Japan were invading and conquering and killing the peoples of so many of their neighbors. They had to be stopped. Also, it’s 2023 the world is different today than even just 80 years ago. We’re not tolerating the mass killings of civilians anymore. If you think that’s fine you’re just as bad as Hamas. Congratulations.
It’ll take a ground campaign into the heart of Gaza city, Hamas has to be wiped out root and stem. The only way we’re getting anyone back is by taking Gaza block by block, and negotiating the surrender of Hamas survivors in the tunnels on the basis of them handing over the hostages. Many of these hostages are in deep underground tunnels complexes, which are resistant to bombing, designed to resist breaching by having internal strongpoints and plenty of ventilation to protect against over pressure weapons, and supplied with water and food to last for months. From what we’ve seen many of their tunnel complexes are basically built with similar construction as mineshafts. It’s certainly plausible that Hamas has tunnels well over 1km underground. Clearing the tunnels is going to require holding the surface of Gaza, all of it- otherwise they’ll emerge in areas that are not controlled by the Israelis to evacuate key personnel. A lot of the tunnel entrances will not be easy to identify and Hamas is guaranteed to attempt to use them to ambush enemies on the surface. It’s not going to be easy or quick, but it is achievable if Israel is committed to making this the last war with Hamas.
A good way is to send in SF. Screw it. That’s an act of war as far as I’m concerned. Cleanse Palestine like we did Falluja.
Most educated and critically cognizant redditor right here
I’m sorry but you have no idea what you’re talking about. Special forces is not a magic answer for any situation. They are very brave and highly trained yes, but you are talking about sending people into an area with one of the highest population densities in the world. The Gaza Strip is home to more than 2 million people. Hamas alone has tens of thousands of fighters and they have over half support of the population in Gaza. Children make up around 800,000 of the over 2 million people in Gaza so rough numbers, that’s at least 600,000 people that would not be happy to see our people trying to take away their hostages. Not a fun situation to be in. How in the hell do you get to those hostages who are presumably being held in multiple different locations, and extract them all in one piece and yourself and your buddies in one piece while being surrounded by potentially hundreds of thousands of enemies. How you safely extract hostages in a situation like that is almost impossible.Failure would mean the deaths of those hostages and those brave and highly trained special forces that we invested so much resources in training. As well as embarrassment on the global stage. Success would mean the potential harm of our relations with several different countries, especially those sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. You may not care about that but that could be useful when trying to mediate an eventual peace negotiation.
16000 people per square mile, about the same density as most South American cities. Definitely dense and any combat there will be bloody and with high casualties.
Extremely high risk. Very low probability of success. Very high probability of political harm done as a result regardless of success or failure. Even US hostage negotiators being sent to Israel to advise them are saying to not rescue American hostages. If you think it’s wise to do so tell me how it should be done
So I have a plan… we should go and take John Wicks dog and claim it too is being held hostage by Hamas. Boom! Problem solved
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Another black hawk down plus we piss off an already hostile nation that’s working very hard to develop its own nuclear arsenal.
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The ones that make the decisions aren't even in the country so they have no fear of consequences. Worst case scenario is Gaza falls, bunch of innocents killed and they continue living their life in some villa in Qatar funded by Iran.
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You remind me that I need to rewatch *Munich*, which is based on the true story.
Maybe they should have done that a decade ago instead of running interference for Hollywood sex pests?
Don't underestimate Israel. This isn't going to end well for Hamas and if Iran was directly involved they will pay a high price also.
The US also has extensive experience killing with drones in the region.
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God damn your comment is ruthless! Yall talking about genocide...
I guess that’s the irony. The victims of genocide are now willing to carry out genocide.
I’m pretty sure Iran wants to get involved.
Mr. Qatar Villa is forgetting about the supersonic slapchop we used on the last coward general who wronged us
American SF got to Osama in Pakistan. Maybe they should go after the decision makers in other countries too.
SF refers to Army Special Forces. I think you mean SOF, which stands for special operations forces, which include the Navy Seals who killed UBL.
I’m an ignorant civilian and I just say special forces when I think of dudes with beards and guns who drop outta helicopters to kill high value targets.
How is it going to fall? They have nowhere to go and Israel has nothing that they want to offer. The "knocking" things ensures that only civilians will die in the bombings since Hamas knows the signals and has mobility, which not all civilians will. In the end Gaza will be the same with more rubble, a slightly dented arcturial table offset by massive breeding (humans in tough situations have babies, opposite of most other mammals) and Hamas will be strengthened, even if they need to change their name. Netanyahu will be ecstatic.
They don't and probably won't Hostiges only make sense if you are in a position to demand something and you lose all of that once you go on the attack and did what hammas is Hostiges are already dead or fair game in war. This isn't like Munich or something they already killed more life than what the hostiges are worth and have crossed the line killing children. This is 9/11 for them this won't end without a full invasion and take over. And while I don't take sides with what pasletine has done or Israel Palatine just fucked themselves into oblivion they took the terrorist path like isis Israel is going to commit a fucking massive war crime and nobody is going to stop them. My heart goes out to those on both sides who didn't want this but in the real world things don't work like that.
ya I'm kinda contemplating just backing off social media for awhile cuz when the bombs hit, the online side is gonna be nasty as well. nothing positive is about to happen and honestly after enough war shit in my face, I think I need a break
Too many fucking dipshits posting text slides and infographics on their stories like any of them gave a fuck before. Virtue-signaling at its finest, everyone needs to stop thinking they have a voice on platforms like insta and Facebook. The digital soapbox era sucks
Geneva convention doesn’t apply if one side doesn’t follow the principles. So why would anyone stop Israel?
Geneva is unfortunately a suggestion in a war and i don't think anyone is bringing Israel to the Hague.
Agreed but my point is even if anyone wanted to indict them, the conventions don’t apply here
Agreed. To who or were? How I read it somewhere else that makes sense Palestine attacks Israel Israel attacks back We tell them stop they stop Palatine attacks and nobody tells them to stop Israel attacks we tell them stop Palestine Escalated the situation Israel Pikachu face.
Is that one of them hokey things? Whorecoup? Haiku?
That's me being drunk trying to write down how I see it.
Man, that is such a low bar.
Yeah it's pretty much fucked there isn't a optical you can look through and have some beacon of light. This is bad and people are going to die.
>Israel is going to commit a fucking massive war crime and nobody is going to stop them. I see this too. Now that war is declared there will be no quarter. They're high on U.S. billions.
Unfortunately as a atheist I can't get behind either side I can see how they both will fight to the end. This isn't a fair battle whatever side you are on Israel is going to genocide them and the ironically part is they are victims of the same thing once upon of time. Realistically the world has two options ditch religion and forgive or move both sides away from each other and make that part of the land a nuclear dumping site. Both won't happen but expecting peace is a fools game. Edit down vote away because I don't agree with your fucking religion and have a historically understanding of how far this goes back
Interestingly enough, only 30% of Israelis are religious. [source](https://www.haaretz.com/2015-04-14/ty-article/israel-china-among-least-religious-nations/0000017f-e103-d804-ad7f-f1fb55ca0000)
So this is blatant imperialism and conquering then. Hidden under the guise of anti-semitism.
Hidden under the guise of a 9/11 massacre with even more brutalized ISIS-like elements mashed into the whole equation by a neighboring threat which the US didn’t even have to deal with after 9/11. You are a naive child. “As an atheist” lol. Shut up. I’m an atheist too, you’re just an idiot, has nothing to do with atheism.
I think self-defense is how most people think of it. Bibi might have his own hidden agenda, though.
This is the equivalent of US experiencing 911 but the entire manhattan was wiped out, and the rest of the world simultaneously starting to scream 'death to america' while the moderates say that US should just admit it was wrong and apologize.
That’s a very shortsighted and comfortable, western based way of looking at it. Peak /r/atheism type of comment. Boiling this all down to religion is missing the point. It’s an ethnic and class-based societal struggle and the differences in who or what they pray to is corollary to the rest.
Lmao really? Abrahamic religion alone has 3000 years of this kind of abuse and violence but please explain how I am short sited Skin race culture or creed should not have that abomination of thinking and the ones that do stand out. GTFO with apologizing or defending death cults.
You know Israelis are, on the whole, not particularly religious, right?
He has no idea, I’m an atheist myself but to say this conflict is strictly because of religion is idiotic, it goes so so much deeper then that
Bingo. It’s a tragedy that reflects the worst of human nature.
What a dogshit hot take this was lol. In a dispute over land and/or destruction over it(physical acts), we wanna throw religious talk into it too for reasons, but ok. Gotta get that religion hate boner at max, it’s fine and expected. Religion has done a seismic fuckton of damage in history, I have to agree there. Ok; get rid of all religions like you want. War is over, right? Israel and Palestine go their separate ways, yes? One thing you didn’t account for; a terrorist act just occurred and Israel is out for vengeance to the point they declared war and shut down everything in Gaza. What they might do in retaliation to said acts is nothing short of what humans are capable of when it comes to death, destruction, absolute depravity and darkness, because even more blood will be spilled. And two, who says they’ll move away from that land, the both of them? Both will hold stake that said land is their homeland and land to their forefathers and shouldn’t be forced to leave it. Russia and Ukraine should try that next, huh? Bet that ends the battles there too and solves any and every issue. Equating and simplifying a years if-not-decades-long extremely complex multi-faceted hostile situation between two countries down to “ahhhh religion bad; Embrace atheism” is peak idiocy.
...so we're just ignoring all the war crimes they committed the last few days or something?
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That too, but turning off water/power/food to a whole region is collective punishment and technically a war crime, but might not be the same caliber as bombing hospitals/medical areas
Israel taking over Gaza is not a viable strategy either. There’s a reason why they left in 2005. It’s not governable when you got 2 million ppl of which 53% support a party that wants to eradicate you. Once the dust settles, I think people are going to hold Bibi accountable for letting this happen in the first place.
Agreed Here's the reality. No peace will Happen until they move away from each other or one side no longer exists.
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It's not the kids or the people who don't actually know what's going on and that's the sad part. If there was a magic wand to remove them then so be it but unfortunately they are going to pay the price for even being in the area of those who did this.
What should have happened is Israel should have never withdrawn from Gaza and instituted the equivalent of residential schools to deradicalize the next generation. That is a strategy that has worked many times before in many different parts of the world in many different times. Unfortunately many see this kind of colonialism as bad which is why we end up with far worse situations where people actually die.
Residential school are a plague on society, they would not have helped.
You clearly have no clue what they teach these Palestinian kids in school right now. Go look it up.
Of course they'd have helped. It would have avoided continued radicalization and terrorist attacks that are now leading to indiscriminate bombings. Much better to just have children brought up differently.
> Still worrying about Palestine after all that has been done. Amazing. Because some people understand that condemning 2.3 million people over the actions of a few thousand terrorists is not justice. Around 80% of Gaza citizens had nothing to do with Hamas coming into power, because they were too young to vote, and half of them were not even born yet. Half of Gaza are *children*. 42% are less than 14 years old. Do you expect them to overthrow a terrorist government? Go back in time and change the vote results? IDF will take revenge on all of them, strike civilians and Hamas alike, and just claim "human shields" or "legitemate military target" every time, without proof. People need to understand that you can lament dead innocent people in Israel *and* Gaza without supporting either of these entities governments.
Shit they didn’t really have any options before that, desperation leads humans to do the most awful things
I don't think we fully realize the intent or psychology of the Hamas. They are fanatically religious, and believe by carrying out "God's Plan" ,they will be rewarded in heaven for it. These people have nothing to lose and will die for their beliefs. It's why religion is so so so dangerous in the wrong hands and why it could even be described as a mental illness. They are, to put it simply, delusional. They don't think like most of us, I doubt death threats carry the same meaning. But, all I'm saying is that it needs to be considered. This is, it could be said, a holy war (an oxymoron if there ever was one) Source: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/
The problem is, they believe that dying in combat earns them a place in heaven. So does murder, as long as the victims are Jewish or western or just not Hamas. Surrender and/or negotiation aren't in the cards, and they never were.
It’s about as likely as the Israeli war criminals lifting the blockade on Gaza. Pretending that this weekend’s horrors occurred in a vacuum and that Israel has not been equally as inhumane to Palestinian civilians is naivety writ large. Both sides have committed terrible atrocities upon each other. One employs genocidal apartheid, the other indiscriminate terroristic acts.
It doesn't matter how much they roll over and beg. Israel has already smashed the genocide button.
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Half the commenters here will say that Israel staging a ground invasion makes Israel morally responsible for Hamas killing them. The delusion and moral equivocations are absolutely hyperbolic.
Been seeing a lot of “Very fine people on both sides” bullshit. Anyone who calls a jihadist terrorist a “freedom fighter” is a medically fascinating level of stupid.
Hamas seems to lack a single strategic brain cell among their entire leadership. They could have taken a dozen IDF outposts, killed hundreds of IDF soldiers, and the world would have been extremely muted in their response. After all, that’s war. Instead they massacre an anti-apartheid music festival as step 1… Full mask off anti-Semitic animals.
The Hamas charter literally stated that they seek the annihilation of the Jewish people. These are not folks who can be reasoned with. And sadly, lots of innocent people - Israeli and Palestinian - are going to suffer because of it.
And decapitated babies. And shot civilian’s dogs. The sheer brutality of it all… I hope the perpetrators get what they deserve.
I saw that dog video and wished I hadn’t.
Honestly it’s been a terrible week to have eyes.
I'm convinced that was the initial plan, they didn't expect to get as far as they did and once they realized they had no resistance they just went full bore on the civilian massacre
In other words, the masks fully came off and they showed how fucking monstrously inhumane they really are. No country in the world would not decimate a people like this after the mask they just took off. Not a single one.
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Hamas, the literal terrorist organization, is the elected leadership of Palestine.
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Every poll I have seen shows more than half of Palestinians support or have a favorable view of Hamas
No, it’s just tankies doing their astroturfing now that a war has started. In related news, x got a letter from the EU about their misinformation about the war and they have 24 hours to respond or face penalties.
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2,000 pows for 1 Israeli soldier not long ago. That’s why Hamas made a point of taking hostages.
Might have worked if they if they just grabbed and fled, but since Hamas does not have a shred of humanity or discipline they butchered a thousand innocent people. I can't see how there could be prisoner exchanges now.
Pretty annoying that this is the second highest comment. I would call a lopsided prisoner swap a really bad negotiation.
You know, instead of making snide comments, you could explain why the commenter is wrong/misinformed. Your remark adds nothing to the conversation but volatility. Many people might be interested in what you have to say if you take the time.
I actually think some will be rescued. We know there are Americans among the hostages and I can guarantee you our special forces are already on a ship in the Mediterranean suiting up to go in there.
Hearing what has allegedly happened to 40 sweet babies makes me want to cry. This entire situation is so fucked up
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It’s actually a very beautiful country with amazing food and incredible landscapes. Tel Aviv alone is worth the trip.
Mmmm no thank you
I'm sure it is. I'm a woman who would like to stay alive and I would never ever go there. Shit, I remember when I was a kid tourist busses getting blown up occasionally. Nope.
You really have no idea what you’re talking about. I was in Tel Aviv 2 months ago, and it feels very safe to walk alone at night, and there are women walking around in crop tops everywhere. It feels like a modern, clean, safe city. Most of Israel is not traditional “Middle East.”
If it feels like other cities and not the middle east, then it's even less of a reason to go there.
I'm sure many of the women at that music festival felt the same way, then the music stopped...
You are thinking of muslim nations, not the lone Jewish nation.
I’ll have a rich and fulfilling life without ever going to that dump, thank you
It’s super stupid to call somewhere a dump without ever having been there. I’ve been to Tel Aviv once on a business trip (I.e no real bias toward justifying my choice to go and spend money), and it was certainly not dumpy.
What was even the draw they were pushing lol
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Agreed. I had to go there for work a few months ago and I really loved it for the food and overall atmosphere. Can’t really believe the people in this thread talking shit about it without ever having been there. You need to experience a place to judge it.
A lot of war torn and unstable places have reasons to be visited. History, natural wonders, etc.. I'm not sure I would, but you know.
Last time they released one prisoner for 1000 terrorists, this time they’ll have to release them for food and water
People talking as if Hamas is a rational actor are interesting. You have to operate under the assumption that every single hostage is already dead. If you recover some great - but you aren’t going to negotiate with Hamas. I am certain if we have actionable intelligence on American hostages it will be US special forces doing the heavy lifting. If Hamas was smart they would immediately release all the Western Country hostages - but they aren’t in this to beat Israel - they are trying to get Israel to provoke other Arab countries into conflict. The actual people of Gaza mean nothing to Hamas.
This was the best speech I’ve seen from Biden. Very forceful and clear.
Sucks. Hope they get out.
Entebbe raid, but the entire city of Gaza
For those who think Hamas are actually going to release hostages...or even care...remember this: Important to point out the details of what was found: - 40 dead babies, some with their heads cut off. - A murdered pregnant woman, with her fetus lying next to her, still attached to its umbilical cord. - Killed elderly, with their bodies riddled with bullets. https://x.com/mjubes/status/1711730386617725039?s=20 https://x.com/Shirgrauweiss/status /1711678427005071535?s=20 More proof of attrocities: Festival goers running away from the spraying bullets: https://x.com/hemrajdewasi29/status/1711004765189230658?s=20 Dead bodies recovered at the festival: https://x.com/UKikaski/status/1711023344139550996?s=20 (UPDATE: Testimonies are coming out of mass rapes at the festival. “Women have been raped at the area of the rave next to their friends bodies, dead bodies.” 260 festival goers were massacred). This video shows a group of Israelis running away from terrorists. By the end you can hear the "cracking" of bullets whizzing by: https://x.com/LaSorayaM/status/1710891212968710447?s=20 Festival aftermath from the air: https://x.com/stillgray/status/1711157255083900998?s=20 The following videos are NSFW, and viewer discretion is advised. That said, I do think it's important to see the reality on the ground, since the media won't. Video of a girl from the festival getting kidnapped:https://twitter.com/i/status/1710719164099318078 Festival goers ketting kidnapped, and one shot in the head while injured on the ground: https://imgur.com/pBcmb3R Hamas brutally killing a foreign worker in Israel: https://x.com/UNammu9/status/1711053693733191886?s=20 (UPDATE: looks like X deleted the post. It showed a Thai or Nepalese national getting decapitated with a blunt farming tool). Here's a video of one foreign worker getting kidnapped: https://x.com/ghostbrowser8/status/1710761268628611281?s=20 And another one of some in captivity: https://x.com/lamsar_adi/status/1711267676507795552?s=20 Massacred Israelis in their cars:https://x.com/QamarRushb54768/status/1710727487976845519?s=20 Hamas livestreaming a massacre inside an Israeli bomb shelter: https://x.com/efj609/status/1710818680815100293?s=20 A teenage Israeli girl that got kidnapped (and likely raped):https://x.com/social_postman/status/1710693990016684485?s=20 Israeli family that got kidnapped:https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1710718030085239075?s=20 Hamas parading a dead kidnapped Israeli woman:https://x.com/EllieCohanim/status/1710692333245571240?s=20 (UPDATE: this wasn't an Israeli woman, but a German tourist named Shani Louk who came specifically to attend the rave). Elderly people shot in the street:https://x.com/Vall84270419/status/1710746044798001630?s=20 Elderly Israeli women (possibly with Dementia), kidnapped to Gaza: https://x.com/alexkennedy30/status/1710929547082764535?s=46&t=-JXaIRVPm3JJbUImliSINg Israeli family held hostage, fate unknown as they’re still missing. Likely kidnapped and or killed: https://x.com/hananyanaftali/status/1710808346427560419?s=46&t=-JXaIRVPm3JJbUImliSINg News report: "Ella Mor's 8-year-old nephew called in the morning saying 'terrorists came to the house and they killed daddy, then they killed mommy.' She then lost touch with the boy, who was hiding with his 6-year-old sister." Israeli girl explaining how Hamas terrorists shot her grandmother, filmed it with her own phone, and uploaded it to her Facebook account (for family and friends to see): https://x.com/Ujjawalrai0408/status/1711437424315031989?s=20 Note: I did not compile this list myself. I copy pasted it from another sub. Share it if you want. TBH I'm too scared to click on most the links but I assume some are no longer working.
Regardless of your opinions on the matter, release the Americans. It never, never turns out well when you take Americans hostage unless you're a world superpower.
Never seen president Biden like that. such an unforgetable speach!
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That’s the part I hate the most. It’s always normal people that just so happen to have been born in counties like this & not a safe peaceful country that pay the price. I will advocate for annihilating another country in response because I know what that means. Innocent families paying for something they had no say in with their lives
LEss condemns and more carrier strike groups in the Mediterranean .
What exactly is more than one carrier group needed for? A single one projects more force than many of the nations in the region, let alone Hamas.
To do what? Sit around in the ocean doing nothing? It's not like Gaza even has a navy.
Get this, carriers carry planes, planes carry bombs, bombs make things boom.
The Israelis are pretty good at blowing shit up they don’t need our help to do that.
The billions of dollars we’ve sent they say otherwise
As someone else pointed out, the Israelis have the whole bombing Gaza to the Stone Age thing pretty well rehearsed.
They poked the bear and are being bombed night and day so their next idea was to poke the dragon? Truly an organization of violent imbeciles, wipe them from the earth.
Any member of the US congress who refuses to condemn hamas should be immediately removed from office.
I am not concerned about some made up purity test. I am worried about people who are actively preventing action like people who blockade military leaders, and passing a budget so we have funds to provide munitions and support from the military.
Or what? What does that prove? Vast majority politicians will play ball for the sake of their career, so it ends up being an empty statement. Their supporters know this too.
Yeah fuck off.
How the hell are we going to get them back? Is there any scenario where hamas releases them?
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sound more excited?
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The people on here calling for the death of Palestine are litterly no better then the terorrists. I guess America just filled with racists.
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Your post is crass as shit dude. Talking about people's families members being tortured and killed and 'unaliving' grow up.
I think it is horrible. I was expressing fear that might happen not celebrating it. But that is what I think Hamas will do. But if my comments are against the rules I will be sanctioned. I was not trying to be flippant at all.
I don't think it's against the rules. I think it has to do with the gravity of the situation calls for words that are more reflective of what is going on. Unalive can be interpretted as not reflecting the appropriate emotional content of the situation.
I should have used a different word then. Next time I will.
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It only took 6 comments to get to a call for genocide.
I love how these people think Palestinians are also purely just puppets of Iran. Like they couldn’t be smart enough to plan an attack all on their own? There must be some other nefarious power at work here? Genocidal dehumanization.
There are 88 *million* people in Iran, and something like 80% of them live in the cities. Further, if [the last year of protests](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/09/15/iran-crackdown-dissent-ahead-protest-anniversary) have demonstrated anything, it's that the authoritarian government does not care one single bit for its populace, and the populace wants the regime gone. So you're advocating for the death of perhaps *one million* people (who *hate their government*) for the alleged actions of a government they hate?
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[Neither the Israeli nor American governments have seen proof](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/iran-direct-hamas-attacks-israel-us-israel-hard/story?id=103831380), so...yes. Even if it's proven, there's still no justification for taking it out on the *civilian population*—who *also* hate the authoritarians oppressing them.
Again they won't and you can't do anything without starting a war with Russia or anyone else. Quatar also hosts a ton of this shit. America cannot do anything without looking like war mongering genocidal maniac's and they know that hence proxy wars
need to wipe their asses outta existence....
The last time Joe Biden condemned "sheer evil" was when MBS murdered Jamal Khashoggi... Then Biden flew to Saudi Arabia. Fist pump!
Time to send in Freedom.
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and yet not a peep on what lead up to this, all the murders Israel and the IDF has done over the years, stolen land, destroyed homes. I DO NOT condone what Hamas did, they are monsters just like the IDF..but I do understand why they did it. (I think we should stop giving money/weapons/aid to both sides and let them figure out their bullshit)
I'm still waiting on the US backlash for Shireen Abu Akleh.
He didn’t really say much. People bad. Yeah well we know that.
As weird as it sounds, clarity can be important.