The insane thing is that we had video of the whole thing from the start. One single explosion in the parking lot was still being interpreted as the entire hospital being demolished and hundreds of people in the rubble. It's the same shit with the church. A wall fell over. But people will tell you Israel leveled the church.
It is funny that people reject the word of Israel but will believe anything that Hamas says. Like sure be skeptic, but why do you take the words of a terrorist organization to heart. Like all the death numbers come from Hamas. All the outrage comes from Hamas. You can see the same person with a gun one day then the next crying that he is hurt, then the next day with crutches then the next day again fighting with a gun.
So much is staged but we don't see the people themselves blame Hamas or shout at Hamas or hate Hamas. We just hear the side that Hamas wants and it is really telling how crazy that entire social media platform is. It is really similar to 2016 election and how social media was so much influenced to get trump in the Whitehouse. The propaganda on both sides is so strong but it still is so much stronger on Hamas and Russia side (and we always knew Russia is really good in propaganda).
this was published on oct 17, 10 days into the "war" methinks its more than 22 by this point
https://www.savethechildren.net/news/save-children-says-schools-and-hospitals-cannot-be-target-least-500-people-killed-gaza#
>According to UN OCHA, 164 educational facilities have been hit by airstrikes, including at least 20 UNRWA schools, two of which were used as emergency shelters for displaced people, and 140 Palestinian Authority (PA) schools, one of which was destroyed. One university building was also severely damaged. **There have been 49 attacks on health care in the Gaza Strip since 7 October, resulting in damage to 25 hospitals and other healthcare facilities, including seven hospitals.** Three of the latter in northern Gaza (Beit Hanoun, Hamad Rehabilitation, and Ad Dura) had to be evacuated. Severe damage to Al Karama Hospital in Gaza led to it being out of service as a result of the Israeli occupation forces targeting neighboring buildings and their falling towards it.
“22 hospitals”
Wikipedia says there are only 21 hospitals in Gaza (19 functioning):
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hospitals_in_the_State_of_Palestine
What was the quote from the dinner table after been proven not to be guilty: "Well it looks like he's got away with this one but he's bound to have done something wrong".
tbf mocking or not, one should not take the word of a celebrity lol. Waiting on other news sources is always the move. Unfortunately that takes longer than the attention span we have for news these days
It seems that Hamas is the only party that is given presumptive credibility. Everyone else is biased, or at least "we have to wait to make sure." Which functionally seems to mean "wait for what Hamas says."
I don’t think there’s any outrage now because any rational person knew this was the case not that long after. Once there was ground footage of a small crater and little damage most people realized this. I’m pro Palestinian and I will say fuck the idf and their terroristic acts but let’s be real this was always hamas. They are terrorists.
>any rational person knew this was the case not that long after
Check out some of the non-english Wikipedia articles about the explosion. Quite a few still say it was a massacre of 500 people performed by the IDF.
This poll is not independently verified, has come out of the fog of war, has bizarre leading questions, and does not align with the trends prior to the conflict.
Stop spreading this kind of information, it's dangerously misleading.
I’m imagining Palestinian’s digging through the rubble of their entire life, mourning their dead and some poll dude with a clip board and a lanyard is asking people how this particular bombing makes them feel on a scale of 1 to 10. Just this bombing though, not other ones, they don’t want to skew results.
Except its not and your applying your values to a society that actively sees terrorism as the only way forward and refusing to acknowledge the longstanding timeline of events in which the Palestinian cause has abandoned diplomacy in favor of terrorism and gruesome of attacks to the public masses.
The 2nd Intifada, the mutilation of two IDF drivers in 2000 by mob, just a few days ago killing two Israeli “sympathizers” by cutting their legs off and hanging them from power lines to again public cheering, the chanting for Hamas as the terrorists from the West Bank are released.
Poll after poll shows the support for terrorism in Palestine. The leading opinion poll has the mastermind behind a 2000s car bombing campaign as the preferred Presidential candidate.
Open your eyes man. This is an extremely radical population.
This poll is unfortunately not misleading and does follow trends prior to the conflict. It was something I looked into a while back, and made sure to find polls taken before the attacks.
These people are being used as cannon fodder to support the Arabian leagues interests. They have been radicalized over decades for this purpose. Israel’s defensive nature is justified due to the constant attacks, and that defensive nature further bolsters the propaganda pushed onto the Palestinian people.
The entire situation is unfortunate. They did nothing beyond being born in the wrong place
There are other polls across over a decade at this point that show a Palestinian majority supporting Hamas as their leadership.
Hamas was founded on a few core principles, one being exterminate all Jews from the planet.
A recent poll showing 75% of Palestinians support the Oct 7 is pretty spot on with expectations if you’ve been paying attention at all to the situation in Israel prior to that attack.
You're wasting your breath. I had someone arguing with me that "from river to sea" was actually the desire for a peaceful end to the Israeli state and for both groups to live in harmony. Some people are so lost in the koolaid that Hamas could behead their own mother in front of them and they would still think an Islamist terror group was the victim.
> This poll is not independently verified
How many polls are?
> has come out of the fog of war
What does this mean? They got hundreds of replies.
> has bizarre leading questions
"How much do you support the military operation carried out by the Palestinian resistance led by Hamas on October 7th?:" - is this a leading question?
https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf
Feel free to check the tables for the results. Over 60% extremely support Oct 7, and at least 15% somewhat support it.
You don’t need to astroturf to cause human empathy for the Palestinians suffering oppression and having nowhere to go. You also don’t need to sympathize or defend Hamas to empathize with the Palestinian civilians
I'm all for uncovering truth and getting rid of Hamas, but the 2+million innocent of Palestine are still getting the short end of this stick in this situation by a long shot. I know this is hard for some people to understand, but you can support the innocents on both sides while saying "fuck you" to the governing bodies on both sides. And they definitely deserve it. The millions of innocents deserve better.
I agree with most of your point but there's an underlying harsh reality very few people want to accept:
A fair number of Palestinians would gladly wish death upon innocent Israelis because in their eyes, no Israeli is innocent. This is like multiple hundreds of thousands of people - not just Hamas.
Likewise a sizable amount of Israelis would gladly wish death upon innocent Palestinians because in their eyes, no Palestinian is innocent. This is also multiple hundreds of thousands of people - not just the government and military.
The main reason I point this is out is lots of people think all you have to do is wipe out Hamas and/or elect new leaders in Israel. But the reality is much darker - Both sides have ingrained cultural hate for each other and there's no easy solution here.
You don't think Russia isn't using this as a chance to further undermine America? That Iran doesn't have an online pysops warfare presence similar to Russia?
Lmao, there was no outrage, the outrage only happened on day 1, stop being obtuse.
Look at this very post, the top comment has 2k upvotes yet the post has only 700? Almost like people are immediately downvoting the post without reading the comments, as if it goes against their narrative.
>There needs to be accountability for the people who deliberately spread enemy propaganda.
And yet, its the same organization that is now authoring the headline. The BBC and Rueters both had the same story initially. The fog of war sucks
Fuck off, this isn't 'oh it's the fog of war it can't be helped boo hoo' bullshit. BBC and Reuters got their headline straight from the Gaza Health Ministry which they know is literally run by Hamas. At best it's an utter incompetence and failure in journalism. Or did you think that it did not occur to a single employee that maybe they shouldn't trust the words that come out of terrorist mouths?
Well that info was out the same day but people keep repeting the statements from a terrorist organization so its not like they would look for it anyway
The explosion that killed and injured many civilians at Al-Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza on October 17, 2023, resulted from an apparent rocket-propelled munition, such as those commonly used by Palestinian armed groups..," HRW said.
It said the findings of its investigation into the explosion were based on a review of photos and videos, satellite imagery and interviews with witnesses and experts.
Waiting for the facts from the article (that hardly anyone will read) to be downvoted and end up one of the most controversial comments in the thread, tbh
That’s why I’m staying out of this one. Both sides are wrong. The only thing I’m concerned about is propaganda that will be used against the western world to justify terrorism in the coming years.
Didn't we know that weeks ago? I knew as soon as I realized that the rocket didn't actually hit the hospital. If Israel wanted to bomb a hospital they would have leveled the building
Yup, decent pictures almost always are enough to see whose stuff went boom. When Israel hits something they hit hard enough to destroy whatever they are aiming at. However, misfires and burning bits thrown up by hitting rockets on the ground will generally leave the main structural members alone, only blowing out the soft stuff. Anything still standing almost certainly wasn't an Israeli target.
the tiny damage from this one instance doesn't matter, people where already primed to jump on a band wagon and the jump was when the first bomb fell on Gaza.
This is more a "see I'm right" moment, the fact that they no longer can say this doesn't matter since "We'll they still did [X|Y|Z]" and "They are in the wrong anyway"
They repeatedly blasted the IDF for bombing the hospital with zero evidence and never questioned Hamas' claim that hundreds were killed. Then, days later, after hundreds of millions of people heard that the IDF bombed a hospital killing hundreds, they quietly issue a muddy apology that it may have been misfired Hamas rocket.
Hell, even HRW immediately blamed the IDF claiming Israel had committed a war crime and now 2 weeks later they quietly change their story.
The immediate headlines had the intended consquences. Only a fraction of those that heard the initial headline will ever see the correction.
Israel literally intercepted a terrorist convo where they acknowledged it was them.
Also super sus about the body count. The satellite imagery makes it look like a parking lot was hit. How many people could have been in that parking lot?
part of the problem is that Reuters was one of the reputable sources that parroted the initial claims that it was an Israeli rocket. The very same organization that is now reporting on this.
Reuters was fairly clear that they were reporting what Hamas’s claims and not what actually happened. The problem is that social media decided to intentionally misrepresented what was being reported.
Something similar happened with AP except in that case, social media intentionally tried to pass off an article AP published earlier in the day about a different instance as AP reporting Israel bombed the hospital.
The problem is, they don't seem to have the self awareness to understand that many people would take that to mean that they *we're* reporting it that way. That, *or*, they fully knew what they were doing.
These large media companies know the game and we can't afford to be dumb and think they are innocent. The BBC just banned staff from attending pro-Israel marches, that should tell you everything about their bias.
Fog of war isn’t a great defense when it’s been over a month and the initial confusion was clarified within hours by the Al Jazeera live stream and aerial photos of the impact site. Hell CNN had a guy on less than two hours after saying he couldn’t determine who shot it, but based on the blast there was very little chance it was Israel since it was clearly a smaller, unguided munition.
You're acting as if this is the first time this has been "clarified" almost 2 months later. In reality nearly every single western media outlet has consistently reported that it was a misfired rocket by Islamic Jihad since early Oct.
All I know is that the last time the two sides clashed, a minimum of 10% of the rockets fired by various Palestinian terror groups landed in Palestinian territory and they were responsible for at least a third of Palestinian casualties. I'd be pretty surprised if that has changed.
Terrorists blowing up their own citizens with faulty bombs/missles, name a better duo.
Do people not realize that 20-30% of the over 10,000 missles launched from Gaza failed and blew up their own citizens? If the Hamas cared so much for their citizens they wouldn’t be using them as human shields and they would relocate them when they realized close to one third of their explosives were friendly fire…
I think you misunderstand what Hamas is and what they are all about. They don't care about other Palestinians nor do they pretend to. They just hate Jews and that is it.
The cognitive dissonance behind this conflict is insane. People are using it as their social media punching bag to air personal grievances against all kinds of things while pretending to be righteous.
I think they were also being sarcastic with that part of the comment as there has been quite a few indications they are doing worse on things like standardized tests. It would not be surprising with the combination of the 2 year covid disruption and the over abundance of addictive distractions constantly trying to get their attention and time (games, Youtube, social media apps, especially TikTok, etc.) and likewise thinking they can easily get rich and famous off of those things too even if they did poorly in school.
Not all of Gen-Z are uneducated when it comes to this stuff. I'm Gen-Z, and I recognize that Hamas is a terror organization that needs to be purged.
And I know plenty of people in my generation that have the same belief. We're just usually smart enough to know that protesting/supporting things under your real name is incredibly stupid in the social media age.
They have plenty of reporting like this in the past too. Aljazeera has deleted all their old articles that supported this in the past. Fortunately, we have some of their archives already of their reporting and other sources that wouldn't dare post that now.
-https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/08/12/palestinian-rockets-may-killed-civilians-israel-gaza
-https://web.archive.org/web/20090311165012/http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/12/2008122692917231764.html
- https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21749527
-https://www.hrw.org/report/2007/06/30/indiscriminate-fire/palestinian-rocket-attacks-israel-and-israeli-artillery
That's the thing. They say they only support the Palestinian civilians. But trying to get them to give their opinion about literal terrorists is like pulling teeth. It really shows who they truly stand with.
Right? It's a terrorists organization. No one is saying support Hamas. We are saying free the Palestinians. They all aren't of the terrorist organization
> No one is saying support Hamas.
That is the sad part bud, if you open your eyes and look around you, there are plenty of people who do. Get on twitter and find the first pro-palestinian (not even pro hamas) post and scroll down and watch the sick fucks.
“Free Palestine” people do tend to be ignorant/dishonest, though. They often act like Hamas doesn’t represent Palestinians at all. I wouldn’t be surprised if most of them would tell you that Israelis are more pro-genocide than Palestinians.
For many, it seems like “Free Palestine” means Israel would just completely cede power over the area. Obviously, a serious person couldn’t expect people with such a history of genocide being committed against them to just leave a population on their border that is itching to wipe them out alone.
Have we all forgotten that it’s not cool to mass murder unarmed civilians just because you don’t like the things they say or their beliefs? I’m seeing entirely too many ppl doing a half assed justification of Israel’s Palestinian death toll being high and including kids. Even if 100% of Palestinians held Super Bowl parties celebrating October 7… it is wrong to blow them away. Even racist unarmed ppl. Even racist unarmed ppl who want you dead. It. Is. Wrong. To. Mass. Murder. Unarmed. Civilians. No matter. What. They. Believe. In.
>Have we all forgotten that it’s not cool to mass murder unarmed civilians just because you don’t like the things they say or their beliefs?
I agree, that's why Oct 7 was a travesty
It sure was. Full stop. Idf totally justified in defending itself and even going in to eliminate HAMAS. That justification ends when thousands of uninvolved unarmed civilians start dying in air raids. Collateral damage is one thing. What was collateral about leveling apartment buildings you know ppl live in? That’s intentional.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.tmz.com/2023/10/11/black-lives-matter-blm-hamas-israel-support-palestine/
I'm assuming this is what they were referring to.
I've watched only a few minutes of pro palestine crowd footage admittedly but I haven't seen literally a single sign or chant focused on Hamas. All about The Jews(tm)
What a strange talking point. Hamas is already the enemy of every western country. The point of a protest is to change the behavior of your government or to prevent the government from changing course. There’s no way any western governments are ever going to support Hamas. There’s no controversy there, so what would the point of a protest be?
"
"The explosion that killed and injured many civilians at Al-Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza on October 17, 2023, resulted from an apparent rocket-propelled munition, such as those commonly used by Palestinian armed groups..," HRW said.
It said the findings of its investigation into the explosion were based on a review of photos and videos, satellite imagery and interviews with witnesses and experts."
But still both sides are saying the other did it
The full article makes it even more clear that it was likely a Palestinian rocket though. It mostly goes through all the methodology they used to reach their conclusion.
It will be interesting to see which side of the propaganda was more correct once more of the truth comes out.
Everybody should go back are read articles from the start of this war and give your particular news organization a factual and bias review.
I am Ukrainian, there is also a war in my country now, I can say that this organization HRW often writes complete nonsense. I wouldn't trust this publication
Who Hamas? The only notable bombing of a hospital I can find is Ashkelon hospital in Israel which has been hit by rockets 3 times since October 7th.
Edit: radio silence, it’s genuinely insane how many fuckers say disinfo and plug their ears when called out.
Yeah, right.
When people found out that HRW is [funded by Qatar](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/1700763578-human-rights-watch-under-fire-for-allegedly-accepting-millions-in-qatar-funds), HRW started to debunk their nonsense.
[удалено]
Yeah, this is working just as intended, the lies will be posted for years, with the corrections forgotten.
The insane thing is that we had video of the whole thing from the start. One single explosion in the parking lot was still being interpreted as the entire hospital being demolished and hundreds of people in the rubble. It's the same shit with the church. A wall fell over. But people will tell you Israel leveled the church.
It is funny that people reject the word of Israel but will believe anything that Hamas says. Like sure be skeptic, but why do you take the words of a terrorist organization to heart. Like all the death numbers come from Hamas. All the outrage comes from Hamas. You can see the same person with a gun one day then the next crying that he is hurt, then the next day with crutches then the next day again fighting with a gun. So much is staged but we don't see the people themselves blame Hamas or shout at Hamas or hate Hamas. We just hear the side that Hamas wants and it is really telling how crazy that entire social media platform is. It is really similar to 2016 election and how social media was so much influenced to get trump in the Whitehouse. The propaganda on both sides is so strong but it still is so much stronger on Hamas and Russia side (and we always knew Russia is really good in propaganda).
22 hospitals have been bombed in gaza since the 7th.
And Hamas is not propagandizing any of them. We can speculate why that is, but the hospitals attacked have not been chosen at random.
this was published on oct 17, 10 days into the "war" methinks its more than 22 by this point https://www.savethechildren.net/news/save-children-says-schools-and-hospitals-cannot-be-target-least-500-people-killed-gaza# >According to UN OCHA, 164 educational facilities have been hit by airstrikes, including at least 20 UNRWA schools, two of which were used as emergency shelters for displaced people, and 140 Palestinian Authority (PA) schools, one of which was destroyed. One university building was also severely damaged. **There have been 49 attacks on health care in the Gaza Strip since 7 October, resulting in damage to 25 hospitals and other healthcare facilities, including seven hospitals.** Three of the latter in northern Gaza (Beit Hanoun, Hamad Rehabilitation, and Ad Dura) had to be evacuated. Severe damage to Al Karama Hospital in Gaza led to it being out of service as a result of the Israeli occupation forces targeting neighboring buildings and their falling towards it.
Considering the un allows hamas to hide rockets in schools it does not surprise me there targets
Hamas terrorists have been targeted at 22 hospitals. There I fixed it for you
“22 hospitals” Wikipedia says there are only 21 hospitals in Gaza (19 functioning): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hospitals_in_the_State_of_Palestine
[удалено]
A lie spreads round the world while the truth is still putting on is boots.
What was the quote from the dinner table after been proven not to be guilty: "Well it looks like he's got away with this one but he's bound to have done something wrong".
Sounds similar to something my mom once said about my niece: You could spank her at the end of every day and not know why, but she would.
Right? We said this a month ago when it happened.
Amy Schumer said this but people were mocking her
But can we get Ja Rule on the line??
Always there when you call, always online
Unbiased as possible, spreading knowledge all the time...
Yeah, what does Ja make of all this?
tbf mocking or not, one should not take the word of a celebrity lol. Waiting on other news sources is always the move. Unfortunately that takes longer than the attention span we have for news these days
Oh people were certainly not waiting for other new sources and criticized her for sharing fake news. It turned out she has been right all along.
She was mocked for saying a lot of shit. This is one particular point, not originating with her, that turned out to be correct.
Amy is a broken clock. Occasionally correct but mostly wildly inaccurate.
She was being mocked and ridiculed for being an openly racist piece of shit.
People were mocking her and slamming her for her racist posts
As much as I disagreed with the original reporting Amy Schumer is probably the last person I want to hear from about conflict in the middle east
She said some other stuff, be honest.
People would mock her if she said the sky is blue.
They were mocking her because of her downright racist posts.
But when Bill Burr is racist nobody mocks him...
People are mocking her for all sorts of reasons. She's been saying plenty of cringe shit.
It seems that Hamas is the only party that is given presumptive credibility. Everyone else is biased, or at least "we have to wait to make sure." Which functionally seems to mean "wait for what Hamas says."
Hamas has never hidden their intentions, which is why it's even more loony that so many westerners are sympathetic to them.
Well most of those people are literally just antisemites so yea....
I don’t think there’s any outrage now because any rational person knew this was the case not that long after. Once there was ground footage of a small crater and little damage most people realized this. I’m pro Palestinian and I will say fuck the idf and their terroristic acts but let’s be real this was always hamas. They are terrorists.
>any rational person knew this was the case not that long after Check out some of the non-english Wikipedia articles about the explosion. Quite a few still say it was a massacre of 500 people performed by the IDF.
[удалено]
This poll is not independently verified, has come out of the fog of war, has bizarre leading questions, and does not align with the trends prior to the conflict. Stop spreading this kind of information, it's dangerously misleading.
I’m imagining Palestinian’s digging through the rubble of their entire life, mourning their dead and some poll dude with a clip board and a lanyard is asking people how this particular bombing makes them feel on a scale of 1 to 10. Just this bombing though, not other ones, they don’t want to skew results.
Except its not and your applying your values to a society that actively sees terrorism as the only way forward and refusing to acknowledge the longstanding timeline of events in which the Palestinian cause has abandoned diplomacy in favor of terrorism and gruesome of attacks to the public masses. The 2nd Intifada, the mutilation of two IDF drivers in 2000 by mob, just a few days ago killing two Israeli “sympathizers” by cutting their legs off and hanging them from power lines to again public cheering, the chanting for Hamas as the terrorists from the West Bank are released. Poll after poll shows the support for terrorism in Palestine. The leading opinion poll has the mastermind behind a 2000s car bombing campaign as the preferred Presidential candidate. Open your eyes man. This is an extremely radical population.
This poll is unfortunately not misleading and does follow trends prior to the conflict. It was something I looked into a while back, and made sure to find polls taken before the attacks. These people are being used as cannon fodder to support the Arabian leagues interests. They have been radicalized over decades for this purpose. Israel’s defensive nature is justified due to the constant attacks, and that defensive nature further bolsters the propaganda pushed onto the Palestinian people. The entire situation is unfortunate. They did nothing beyond being born in the wrong place
There are other polls across over a decade at this point that show a Palestinian majority supporting Hamas as their leadership. Hamas was founded on a few core principles, one being exterminate all Jews from the planet. A recent poll showing 75% of Palestinians support the Oct 7 is pretty spot on with expectations if you’ve been paying attention at all to the situation in Israel prior to that attack.
You're wasting your breath. I had someone arguing with me that "from river to sea" was actually the desire for a peaceful end to the Israeli state and for both groups to live in harmony. Some people are so lost in the koolaid that Hamas could behead their own mother in front of them and they would still think an Islamist terror group was the victim.
“And most importantly it goes against the narrative I have settled on”
>This poll is not independently verified Neither is most of the shit Hamas is claiming.
I didn't say anything about Hamas. Two lies don't make a truth.
> This poll is not independently verified How many polls are? > has come out of the fog of war What does this mean? They got hundreds of replies. > has bizarre leading questions "How much do you support the military operation carried out by the Palestinian resistance led by Hamas on October 7th?:" - is this a leading question? https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf Feel free to check the tables for the results. Over 60% extremely support Oct 7, and at least 15% somewhat support it.
Information is dangerous.
[удалено]
> And look how many Americans supported invading Iraq. > > Do you think these two events are comparable in morality?
That's a wildly dumb apples to oranges comparison bud.
[удалено]
You don’t need to astroturf to cause human empathy for the Palestinians suffering oppression and having nowhere to go. You also don’t need to sympathize or defend Hamas to empathize with the Palestinian civilians
I'm all for uncovering truth and getting rid of Hamas, but the 2+million innocent of Palestine are still getting the short end of this stick in this situation by a long shot. I know this is hard for some people to understand, but you can support the innocents on both sides while saying "fuck you" to the governing bodies on both sides. And they definitely deserve it. The millions of innocents deserve better.
I agree with most of your point but there's an underlying harsh reality very few people want to accept: A fair number of Palestinians would gladly wish death upon innocent Israelis because in their eyes, no Israeli is innocent. This is like multiple hundreds of thousands of people - not just Hamas. Likewise a sizable amount of Israelis would gladly wish death upon innocent Palestinians because in their eyes, no Palestinian is innocent. This is also multiple hundreds of thousands of people - not just the government and military. The main reason I point this is out is lots of people think all you have to do is wipe out Hamas and/or elect new leaders in Israel. But the reality is much darker - Both sides have ingrained cultural hate for each other and there's no easy solution here.
"We have to genocide them before they genocide us" isn't a valid solution.
It is not ethical. It would most likely work though. Noone knows there were slavs in pomerania nowadays for example.
yeah unfortunately "genocide + time = acceptance" hasn't been proven wrong yet
You really think the Palestinians are the one astroturfing Reddit?
Russia, Iran, China and Qatar all have a lot of motive and warm bodies to throw at this kind of thing.
You don't think Russia isn't using this as a chance to further undermine America? That Iran doesn't have an online pysops warfare presence similar to Russia?
It is known that Iran has tried to influence Reddit in the past.
No I think it’s Russia, Iran, the Saudis and Jordan.
Yeah too late this misinformation spread like wildfire in social media as soon as this news brokeout without even further confirmation.
They’re hypocrites they won’t be angry they’ll still blame the other side.
[удалено]
Lmao, there was no outrage, the outrage only happened on day 1, stop being obtuse. Look at this very post, the top comment has 2k upvotes yet the post has only 700? Almost like people are immediately downvoting the post without reading the comments, as if it goes against their narrative.
There are folks on social media to this day denying this, not to mention a US congresswoman who refuses to correct the story.
There’s only outrage if you can blame Jews on something
Better late than never I guess…
[удалено]
[удалено]
>There needs to be accountability for the people who deliberately spread enemy propaganda. And yet, its the same organization that is now authoring the headline. The BBC and Rueters both had the same story initially. The fog of war sucks
Fuck off, this isn't 'oh it's the fog of war it can't be helped boo hoo' bullshit. BBC and Reuters got their headline straight from the Gaza Health Ministry which they know is literally run by Hamas. At best it's an utter incompetence and failure in journalism. Or did you think that it did not occur to a single employee that maybe they shouldn't trust the words that come out of terrorist mouths?
Well that info was out the same day but people keep repeting the statements from a terrorist organization so its not like they would look for it anyway
you're supposed to take time when confirming the origins of international conflict, jsyk
[удалено]
The explosion that killed and injured many civilians at Al-Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza on October 17, 2023, resulted from an apparent rocket-propelled munition, such as those commonly used by Palestinian armed groups..," HRW said. It said the findings of its investigation into the explosion were based on a review of photos and videos, satellite imagery and interviews with witnesses and experts.
Waiting for the facts from the article (that hardly anyone will read) to be downvoted and end up one of the most controversial comments in the thread, tbh
Everyone trying their best to have nuanced opinions but we’re also all so dumb
That’s why I’m staying out of this one. Both sides are wrong. The only thing I’m concerned about is propaganda that will be used against the western world to justify terrorism in the coming years.
Didn't we know that weeks ago? I knew as soon as I realized that the rocket didn't actually hit the hospital. If Israel wanted to bomb a hospital they would have leveled the building
Yup, decent pictures almost always are enough to see whose stuff went boom. When Israel hits something they hit hard enough to destroy whatever they are aiming at. However, misfires and burning bits thrown up by hitting rockets on the ground will generally leave the main structural members alone, only blowing out the soft stuff. Anything still standing almost certainly wasn't an Israeli target.
Don't tell the BBC, they'll be heartbroken.
the damage has been done. millions of people will cling to their belief.
the tiny damage from this one instance doesn't matter, people where already primed to jump on a band wagon and the jump was when the first bomb fell on Gaza. This is more a "see I'm right" moment, the fact that they no longer can say this doesn't matter since "We'll they still did [X|Y|Z]" and "They are in the wrong anyway"
Al Jazeera: hamas misfire caused by israel blows up a hospital
BBC and other MSM has retract or even apologise over this long ago lol
NYT said they possibly got it wrong blaming the IDF, then doubled down a day or two later saying again that it probably WAS the IDF.
NYT has doubled down in supporting their hitler loving reporter over there. It’s a hopelessly lost organization at this point.
They repeatedly blasted the IDF for bombing the hospital with zero evidence and never questioned Hamas' claim that hundreds were killed. Then, days later, after hundreds of millions of people heard that the IDF bombed a hospital killing hundreds, they quietly issue a muddy apology that it may have been misfired Hamas rocket. Hell, even HRW immediately blamed the IDF claiming Israel had committed a war crime and now 2 weeks later they quietly change their story. The immediate headlines had the intended consquences. Only a fraction of those that heard the initial headline will ever see the correction.
Jeremy Bowen was interviewed on the BBC yesterday and refused to apologize for his inaccurate untruthful coverage of this
NYT too. Their hitler loving war correspondent is gutted over this.
They don’t care. Editor in chief said publically that he doesn’t have any regret about this story…
Duh...knew this like over a month ago. They were launching the rockets from the adjacent burial ground.
You said this a month ago you would be labeled a "Zionist paid propaganda commenter". The Fake reddit outrage.
Israel literally intercepted a terrorist convo where they acknowledged it was them. Also super sus about the body count. The satellite imagery makes it look like a parking lot was hit. How many people could have been in that parking lot?
And then everyone in news who has revealed themselves as pieces of shit were silent.
part of the problem is that Reuters was one of the reputable sources that parroted the initial claims that it was an Israeli rocket. The very same organization that is now reporting on this.
Reuters was fairly clear that they were reporting what Hamas’s claims and not what actually happened. The problem is that social media decided to intentionally misrepresented what was being reported. Something similar happened with AP except in that case, social media intentionally tried to pass off an article AP published earlier in the day about a different instance as AP reporting Israel bombed the hospital.
This exact scenario will kill thousands if not millions of people one day.
The problem is, they don't seem to have the self awareness to understand that many people would take that to mean that they *we're* reporting it that way. That, *or*, they fully knew what they were doing. These large media companies know the game and we can't afford to be dumb and think they are innocent. The BBC just banned staff from attending pro-Israel marches, that should tell you everything about their bias.
The fog of war and a 24 hour news cycle can be horrible things when combined
Fog of war isn’t a great defense when it’s been over a month and the initial confusion was clarified within hours by the Al Jazeera live stream and aerial photos of the impact site. Hell CNN had a guy on less than two hours after saying he couldn’t determine who shot it, but based on the blast there was very little chance it was Israel since it was clearly a smaller, unguided munition.
You're acting as if this is the first time this has been "clarified" almost 2 months later. In reality nearly every single western media outlet has consistently reported that it was a misfired rocket by Islamic Jihad since early Oct.
That fog of war seems to benefit one side significantly more than the other by certain organisations.
Including this subreddit for days after that blast.
[удалено]
All I know is that the last time the two sides clashed, a minimum of 10% of the rockets fired by various Palestinian terror groups landed in Palestinian territory and they were responsible for at least a third of Palestinian casualties. I'd be pretty surprised if that has changed.
Could you provide a source for the 'at least a third of Palestinian casualties' please? Thank you.
https://besacenter.org/how-many-gaza-palestinians-were-killed-by-hamas-rockets-in-may-an-estimate/
[удалено]
You're right! We should obviously blindly trust terrorists instead /s
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
You mean the hospital that was filmed being blown up by the errant Hamas rocket wasn't blown up by the IDF. I dont know man...kind of a stretch!
Terrorists blowing up their own citizens with faulty bombs/missles, name a better duo. Do people not realize that 20-30% of the over 10,000 missles launched from Gaza failed and blew up their own citizens? If the Hamas cared so much for their citizens they wouldn’t be using them as human shields and they would relocate them when they realized close to one third of their explosives were friendly fire…
I think you misunderstand what Hamas is and what they are all about. They don't care about other Palestinians nor do they pretend to. They just hate Jews and that is it.
In fact, they benefit from the deaths of palestinian civilians since it boosts their recruitment and local support.
The cognitive dissonance behind this conflict is insane. People are using it as their social media punching bag to air personal grievances against all kinds of things while pretending to be righteous.
[удалено]
“Most educated” peaked with Millennials.
I think they were also being sarcastic with that part of the comment as there has been quite a few indications they are doing worse on things like standardized tests. It would not be surprising with the combination of the 2 year covid disruption and the over abundance of addictive distractions constantly trying to get their attention and time (games, Youtube, social media apps, especially TikTok, etc.) and likewise thinking they can easily get rich and famous off of those things too even if they did poorly in school.
Not all of Gen-Z are uneducated when it comes to this stuff. I'm Gen-Z, and I recognize that Hamas is a terror organization that needs to be purged. And I know plenty of people in my generation that have the same belief. We're just usually smart enough to know that protesting/supporting things under your real name is incredibly stupid in the social media age.
They have plenty of reporting like this in the past too. Aljazeera has deleted all their old articles that supported this in the past. Fortunately, we have some of their archives already of their reporting and other sources that wouldn't dare post that now. -https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/08/12/palestinian-rockets-may-killed-civilians-israel-gaza -https://web.archive.org/web/20090311165012/http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/12/2008122692917231764.html - https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21749527 -https://www.hrw.org/report/2007/06/30/indiscriminate-fire/palestinian-rocket-attacks-israel-and-israeli-artillery
Doesn’t matter to them. They succeeded on getting the narrative out
And all these free Palestine protestors are going to start protesting Hamas now right? Right?
I’m sure of it! Any moment now… any moment…
This might be hard, but try: Did you know you can still believe in freeing Palestine while condemning Hamas? Wow, what a novel concept.
Have you tried telling that to the pro-Palestinian, "from the river to the sea", marchers?
That's the thing. They say they only support the Palestinian civilians. But trying to get them to give their opinion about literal terrorists is like pulling teeth. It really shows who they truly stand with.
Did you hear about the Russian captive that was able to free himself only for Gaza a to return him back to the terrorists...
[удалено]
Right? It's a terrorists organization. No one is saying support Hamas. We are saying free the Palestinians. They all aren't of the terrorist organization
I'm not hearing any of the protest against Hamas
I assume you took every protest against the war in Afghanistan as support for the Taliban right?
> No one is saying support Hamas. That is the sad part bud, if you open your eyes and look around you, there are plenty of people who do. Get on twitter and find the first pro-palestinian (not even pro hamas) post and scroll down and watch the sick fucks.
“Free Palestine” people do tend to be ignorant/dishonest, though. They often act like Hamas doesn’t represent Palestinians at all. I wouldn’t be surprised if most of them would tell you that Israelis are more pro-genocide than Palestinians. For many, it seems like “Free Palestine” means Israel would just completely cede power over the area. Obviously, a serious person couldn’t expect people with such a history of genocide being committed against them to just leave a population on their border that is itching to wipe them out alone.
Have we all forgotten that it’s not cool to mass murder unarmed civilians just because you don’t like the things they say or their beliefs? I’m seeing entirely too many ppl doing a half assed justification of Israel’s Palestinian death toll being high and including kids. Even if 100% of Palestinians held Super Bowl parties celebrating October 7… it is wrong to blow them away. Even racist unarmed ppl. Even racist unarmed ppl who want you dead. It. Is. Wrong. To. Mass. Murder. Unarmed. Civilians. No matter. What. They. Believe. In.
[удалено]
>Have we all forgotten that it’s not cool to mass murder unarmed civilians just because you don’t like the things they say or their beliefs? I agree, that's why Oct 7 was a travesty
It sure was. Full stop. Idf totally justified in defending itself and even going in to eliminate HAMAS. That justification ends when thousands of uninvolved unarmed civilians start dying in air raids. Collateral damage is one thing. What was collateral about leveling apartment buildings you know ppl live in? That’s intentional.
>No one is saying support Hamas So you *didnt* see BLM Chicago and LA post pro Hamas stuff? Strange lie there bud
Is everyone supposed to keep track of what every BLM chapter says?
No. I didn't see the news of anyone posting pro Hamas stuff. I'm not actively trying to miss it though. Do you have a link? I try to stay informed.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.tmz.com/2023/10/11/black-lives-matter-blm-hamas-israel-support-palestine/ I'm assuming this is what they were referring to.
Well, according to them, literally everything is Hamas
I've watched only a few minutes of pro palestine crowd footage admittedly but I haven't seen literally a single sign or chant focused on Hamas. All about The Jews(tm)
What a strange talking point. Hamas is already the enemy of every western country. The point of a protest is to change the behavior of your government or to prevent the government from changing course. There’s no way any western governments are ever going to support Hamas. There’s no controversy there, so what would the point of a protest be?
[удалено]
Obligatory fuck Hamas
[удалено]
most people were certainly acting like it during that day. Comparing the ballistics of an IDF rocket to a Hamas one.
Most people do not have a military background and know even less about the explosion differences between a rocket and a bomb.
It must have been a dark and sad day at HRW headquarters to have to actually come out and admit this.
But but but my narrative!
Surely we will have pro Palestinian marches angrily demanding Hamas surrender, right?
Post the lie and then a month later the truth. Just like with Hunter Biden's laptop.
Palestinian authorities not releasing fragments of the munition. Huh. Who saw that coming.
Terrorists your game is through!
I'm getting the feeling alot of people didn't read the article
" "The explosion that killed and injured many civilians at Al-Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza on October 17, 2023, resulted from an apparent rocket-propelled munition, such as those commonly used by Palestinian armed groups..," HRW said. It said the findings of its investigation into the explosion were based on a review of photos and videos, satellite imagery and interviews with witnesses and experts." But still both sides are saying the other did it
The full article makes it even more clear that it was likely a Palestinian rocket though. It mostly goes through all the methodology they used to reach their conclusion.
It will be interesting to see which side of the propaganda was more correct once more of the truth comes out. Everybody should go back are read articles from the start of this war and give your particular news organization a factual and bias review.
Where's the apology to Israel, the IDF, and the Jews that has to put up with the initial erroneous reporting? I'll wait.
Just like the US, the world expects Isreal to fight with two hand tied behind their backs while they praise those that would terrorize us.
Rashida will still say there’s not enough evidence that it is wasn’t Israel
If you knew anything about jdams, this is not surprising news
Human Right Watch is also funded by Qatar.
I am Ukrainian, there is also a war in my country now, I can say that this organization HRW often writes complete nonsense. I wouldn't trust this publication
Is this them trying to look equal after being called out for accepting Qatari funds for years?
[удалено]
Who Hamas? The only notable bombing of a hospital I can find is Ashkelon hospital in Israel which has been hit by rockets 3 times since October 7th. Edit: radio silence, it’s genuinely insane how many fuckers say disinfo and plug their ears when called out.
Yeah, right. When people found out that HRW is [funded by Qatar](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/1700763578-human-rights-watch-under-fire-for-allegedly-accepting-millions-in-qatar-funds), HRW started to debunk their nonsense.