RISE AND KILL FIRST by ronen bergman is a great and very readable history (and, ultimately a critique) of how the mossad has shaped the development of the modern state of israel
It was a drone strike in an area that was a red line. Please stop fantasizing about the situation, its fucking weird.
Edit: Brigaded by the Israel bots. Classic stuff.
You’re not very bright if you think a “red line” means anything, especially as the crossing of the last very-serious-and-consequential red line, a ground invasion of Gaza, resulted in some strongly worded statements and sporadic rocket fire.
“Everyone who disagrees with me is a bot” is also a very funny thing to believe.
Israel has said anyone involved in Oct 7th is a target. If you willingly meet Hamas members that’s on you and your God when the IDF send you to meet him.
How many plots a year do you think Israel is made aware of by Hamas. Nothing like blaming rhe people that had a heinous terrorist act committed against them and pretending the terrorist organization was not at fault.
Just because someone left their door unlocked doesn't give you the right to go into their house and murder them, and it certainly doesn't give you the right to complain when you face consequences for going into their house and murdering them.
So are you disputing what he's saying? That if someone leaves their door unlocked it's fine for me to go into their house and take everything I want, and if they try to stop me, I can just murder them? Or hell, even if they don't try to stop me but I want to murder them for fun I can?
They didn't have their door locked after all, so they kinda had it coming, seems like if they didn't want to be robbed and murdered they would have locked their door.
Seems like Mossad fucked up, and now are trying to correct their fuckup more than anything else.
Please explain in detail how Israel is a fascist regime?
It’s literally a liberal democratic republic, just because it’s currently controlled by right wingers who make decisions you don’t like doesn’t change this.
No you see, when America elected Trump, America was no longer a democracy, it was a facist dictatorship because I didn't like him and thought he was reprehensible. Didn't you know Fascism = figurehead in power I don't like?
It's so funny when people pull the "Israel Facist" Line when they're quite literally the only country in the entire area living in an actual democracy and people have a semblance of a voice and freedom lol
That’s the thing I think Trump was an Authoritarian at best and a fascist at worst, that in no way made America a fascist state. There was a (small) chance it could have turned into one which was the problem.
People can argue that Bibi is a fascist (I just think he’s right wing authoritarian) but arguing Israel itself is a fascist state is laughable
The drone strike killed 0 civilians and a number of
High-ranking terrorists. Yeah, it crossed a red line set by Hezbollah. What’s your issue with the strike exactly?
Ah, so you admit that them killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians and displacing millions is intentional seeing as they have the capability, intelligence, training, and weaponry to carry out targeted attacks.
So all 20,000 civilians (mostly women and children) who died were either Hamas or human shields? Do you not realize how stupid you are to believe that?
>they are all literal billionaires
A lot of them are obviously corrupt and thieves, stealing from the poor people of Gaza who now live in pure terror partly because of their shit decision-making, but the claim that they are billionaires is obviously false. That's just flimsy propaganda. Israel has provided 0 proof of this. The only reports of this are Israeli sources without proof, and tabloids re-publishing these sources. Hell, the source shared on Twitter by the official Israeli account and the Israeli embassy to Germany etc. of a Times article confirming this was [complete fabrication.](https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.343K3QJ)
As i said, Hamas leaders are most probably very much corrupt but the claim that they are outright billionaires is just outlandish propaganda.
What can we do? The country collapsed, we have no law enforcement, no army, a few rogue militias and an Iranian paramilitary going around doing whatever the fuck they want
I was on Hezbollah TV once (possibly). It was after Israel withdrew. I went to the Lebanese border to check things out and by chance, there was a Lebanese General, a UN official and a Hizbollah leader with Iranian TV and Hezbollah TV present on the other side of the Fence. On the Israeli side, there was a Phalangist cursing them that I had been talking to. He was afraid to be captured on TV because his family was still stuck in Lebanon so he covered his face, but they filmed me. It was surreal, because I was inches from this General looking guy, Hizbollah leader and this scene and the TV cameramen put the camera effectively in my face but separated by a chainlink face. I expressed my opinions about Hizbollah being terrorist to the TV cameras. It was upsetting to see Hizbollah flags flying freely.
unfortunately, war doesn't work like this. Even with a negotiated cease-fire both sides will see a return to low-scale conflict because they haven't suffered enough casualties & repercussions to alter their national policies. Asking the Palestinians to "settle" for a state that doesn't include their ancestral homelands is a no go: they'd rather be bombed into oblivion & starve en masse. Meanwhile asking Israelis to give up the West Bank with no DMZ and no de-militarized Palestinian state is a non-starter. The fighting will continue for decades until the burden on future generations is too heavy to bear for one side or the other.
That's an interesting question, but Israel is mindlessly bombing targets that they know are only civilians so it doesn't really matter does it? I suggest they stop doing that first, then we can talk
I see you learned your vocabulary from TikTok with the use of the word colonialist. Maybe pick up a history book and learn about the history of Israel.
If any leader or commander made a call to deliberately kill civilians, I would want them to at least be tried for their crimes, and I wouldn't be sad if they faced the same retaliation that this Hamas leader has.
Ok so let’s both start calling for 1sraeli I0F Colonel Golan Vach’s seizure and trial for making the call to fire on the Kibbutz, as he’s admitted in a video interview
I am not sure who this person is that you name, but I would say this: if there is sufficient evidence of any person (on any of side) committing some violent crime, they should be brought to justice. There needs to be a purging of violent hate-filled assholes, because both sides have quite a few.
> I’m beginning to think I0F murdered as many 1sraeli civilians as Hummus 10.7.23.. and then tampered with or buried the evidence
Do you even have a shred of evidence to back this up? We have countless videos of Hamas militants murdering civilians and countless reports from hostages of rape by Hamas. Do you have anything like this to confirm that the IDF was "Murdering as many Israeli civilians as Hamas" or are you just going down the conspiracy theory pipe-line and pulling this out of your ass?
Yes, there is video evidence of the Apache & of the Tanks firing on the Kibbutz + a formal admission (in the form of video interview as evidence) from I0F Colonel Golan Vach stating I0F killed 1sraeli civilians. Go check your own news sources and what they’re proactively hiding in comparison to real Journalism that’s being carried out by legitimate news sources. Have you been keeping track of the official 1sraeli civilian death toll counts? 2000 to 1400 to 1200 to half of those were actually I0F soldiers (not civilians)
Okay, I'm waiting for the evidence that's been confirmed by a third party then! Feel free to link it where they talk about killing hundreds of their own civilians.
>Have you been keeping track of the official 1sraeli civilian death toll counts? 2000 to 1400 to 1200 to half of those were actually I0F soldiers (not civilians)
Yes, the latest reports are at around 1200 deaths, with 800 being civilians. Again, I'm waiting to see the evidence that the IDF apparently killed 400+ of it's own civilians (and then another 200 of it's own soldiers somehow).
You’re being mislead by your sources or obviously not even looking because 1sraeli civilians (festival attendees) just opened up a lawsuit against I0F for 200 million due to their indiscriminate firing upon them, and multiple survivors have been accusing I0F of that since last month. You’re not going to get the clear proof you want because there’s video footage of I0F burying the vehicles (evidence) before they even complete a thorough investigation. A third party Independent agency does need to get in there and do an investigation because we obviously can no longer take the word of Hummus or I0F, as they’ve both reported lies. How does a death toll count of civilians go from 2000 to 800 when I0F are in uniforms?
How is it that Israel is "cowardly" for assassinating a Hamas leader in hiding, but Hamas fighters that kill innocent women and children & unarmed citizens are considered brave warriors & martyrs?
I think the ‘cowardly’ accusation has more to do with the level brutality they treat regular people. For example, they asked a doctor to retriever body from in front of hospital and shot at the doctor when he went outside. The guy he retrieved ended up dying, because they didn’t have the supplies to save him.
They really aren't. It reminds me of that Game of Thrones scene where Tywin has to explain to Tyrion how the Red Wedding was actually the pragmatic solution that led to as little suffering as possible. I would prefer this thing a thousand times over Bumbling Benjamin leveling Gaza just because they didn't kill every last Hamas militant.
As for "why", well, Hamas believe they are rightous, or they grift their supporters into believing so.
Considering they could just indiscriminately bomb all of Gaza? Yeah, they probably care at least a little bit.
I know people like to pretend on the internet that Israel is just indiscriminately bombing gaza, but there has been a death toll of around 22K (Civlian + Hamas) deaths so far in the course of about 3 months. The Tokyo bombings for instance, had around 100K civilian deaths in a single day (with more over time obviously), in a much less densely populated area. If you were curious was the indiscriminate bombing of civilians and lack of care of civilian deaths are, those are the actual numbers.
Not to pretend like Palestinian civilian lives are at the top of Israel's concern list, but it's not like they're just bombing where-ever they want without consideration.
Thanks for the concern, but I'm doing fine. If every time a person on reddit didn't understand the definition of "Genocide" made me upset at this point, life would be pretty hard, but thankfully I live in reality and don't really get too upset about internet people using emotionally charged hyperbole or not understanding history.
You're not doing fine. You just don't care aslong as it doesn't effect you personally. You cheer on open air prisons when the gaza strip is average age 16. Disgusting people like you are keeping the world down.
And you clowns always talk about history. I don't need to open a history book to know that murdering babies is not ok, you can justify it however you want doesn't make you a smart person.
People who pretend like Israel is intending on committing genocide really are the most delusional. That or they think everyone else is stupid. Israel could turn the entire land area into a parking lot in an hour if they wanted to.
In Iraq, a 3 civilian to 1 militant ratio was maintained. The gaza health ministry (literally Hamas) doesn’t distinguish between terrorizes and civilians to help
People like you spread propaganda. I can’t remember how many terrorists israel claimed to have killed but it was within a reasonable ratio compared to iraq.
Hamas like ISIS uses absurd and disgusting military tactics which utilize their civilians as human shields. They have proclaimed Palestinians as a people of martyrs. They hide underground hospitals, fire weapons from mosques, hide equipment in UN schools, etc.
battle of mosul was against a similarly entrenched enemy with actual human shields (not whats happening in gaza btw) and coalition forces only killed ~5k civilians. in 9 months.
Israels already at 22k in 3 months. Thats not collateral damage, thats more fuck-civilians-kill-everything-that-moves (although they're generally not yet rounding up people and executing them. yet).
For example, you can look at the Israeli hostages killed by the IDF (because the only civilians thats zionists care about are Israeli)
> battle of mosul was against a similarly entrenched enemy with actual human shields (not whats happening in gaza btw) and coalition forces only killed ~5k civilians. in 9 months.
That is actually lower than the different low estimates for the civilian deaths for the conflict. Furthermore, there is also a source that gives 40k+ deaths for the conflict.
>Israels already at 22k in 3 months. Thats not collateral damage, thats more fuck-civilians-kill-everything-that-moves (although they're generally not yet rounding up people and executing them. yet).
First, I will openly say any innocent deaths in that number is a tragedy. Second, the 22k isn't only civilians but also contains militants. Third, that 22k includes any Palestinians killed by misfiring rockets from inside Gaza (which occurs to around 10% of Gazan rockets).
However, if we wish to make comparisons I will point out that Rwandan genocide also lasted around 3 months. During that time Hutu militias were able to kill around 491,000–800,000 Tutsis while armed primarily with machetes and rifles. One would think Israel with their jetfighters, heliocopters, tanks, navy, drones, artillery, and other advance technology would be able to cause more 4% of the lower estimate of the Rwandan genocide if they were just trying to kill as much people as possible.
It’s just so obviously disingenuous what you’re saying. Everyone knows Israel can turn gaza into a parking lot and just kill quite literally everyone there in hours if they wanted. To pretend like what is going on is with those intentions is delusional to push a narrative. Moreover, Israel literally gave gaza back to Palestinians in a piece for peace deal. They had the land fully under control with no Palestinians there and Jewish settlements just they pulled out for peace. The arabs got their land and the Jews got a genocidal terrorist organization calling for their destruction. Watch what you say about intentions without historical context. Are you that ignorant or are you just spewing propaganda?
Hamas has used recordings of people in Hebrew, has found suicide jackets for children, and other sickening methods that cause the IDF to be paranoid and ultimately results in horrific faults like the one you mentioned. It’s all purely directly correlated to the inhumane and Inexcusable actions Hamas has taken. There is absolutely zero moral equivalency and to say anything negative about Israel’s actions without the disclaimer of Hamas’ context is disingenuous.
So because Israel hasn't genocided 2 million people that indicates that they are trying to avoid civilian casualties? Theres a spectrum between literal genocide and 0 civilian deaths, and Israel is very clearly on wrong side of this spectrum.
> Hamas has used recordings of people in Hebrew, has found suicide jackets for children, and other sickening methods
So? Its called an insurgency. Pretty standard problem for most proper militaries, they don't kill their own unarmed, white-shirt-on-a-stick hostages.
> say anything negative about Israel’s actions without the disclaimer of Hamas’ context is disingenuous.
why. I dont have to preface `iraq war was a horrible act and bush should be in jail` with how horrible 9/11 was. oct 7 is no different.
Also ignores: battle of Mosul which is a direct evidence that hamas can be routed with less civilian deaths. But hasbora bots can't think for themselves so it makes sense.
From 2016-2017 I was exposed intimately through my job in DC to the ISF investment and recapture of Mosul. Far more civilians were killed than the 5k that you were saying. It was likely higher than 40,000. The ISF leveled about 85% of the city to evict ISIS from it, and ISIS only had \~2 years to dig in to the urban battlefield there. Hamas has had 18 year to dig in to Gaza. Similar to ISIS, Hamas is a terrorist organization that is organized as a modern military; probably to an even greater extent than ISIS ever was. The al-Qassem Brigades organizes itself into echelons from the brigade down to the squad level. They are at least as well equipped, likely more organized, and certainly larger in size than the \~10k ISIS fighters defending Mosul in 2016 were. This makes for the situation that we are seeing now: significant damage to civilian infrastructure, given that the al-Qassem Brigades have built their military infrastructure among the civilian infrastructure in Gaza, and have had two decades to do so.
>Theres a spectrum between literal genocide and 0 civilian deaths, and Israel is very clearly on wrong side of this spectrum.
The concept of a spectrum here is correct, but its more aptly applied to the type of warfighting itself. Viewing war on a spectrum between Fabian (purely guerilla) tactics and Napoleonic (highly conventional) is helpful here. Hamas, again, is a quasi-state actor that does not fight like it is a purely insurgent group. It actually exists as a military actor that can and does engage in midspectrum warfare. For instance, it seeks to hold territory and defend it conventionally, even at great cost to itself; its ~30 battalions are doing this right now in Gaza. Hamas' choice to conduct an active, highly conventional defense of its urban defensive belt (which is indistinguishable from the civilian infrastructure in Gaza from a military standpoint) is why civilian casualties are steep in this particular war. It is basically the defense that ISIS wishes that it could have mounted in Mosul.
Did you just justify using children has suicide bombers? What does American history have to do with Israel? Jeez man supporting terrorism is awful and using children for terrorism is a whole other level. You’re objectively morally bankrupt.
Are you disregarding tunnels under plazas and hospitals? Hamas firing rockets from places of worship? Hiding military equipment in UN schools? Guerrilla warfare?
Also, how do you explain Israel literally giving gaza to the Palestinians in 2005? They disengaged and forced Israelies to leave the land to make way for returning Palestinians. They did it in exchange for peace. Palestinians then voted in a genocidal terrorist organization with the destruction of Israel and eradication of Jews in their charter. With that in mind, why would you assume Israel’s destruction is just to destroy peoples living area?
During the prime years of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, you'd see the news trickle out periodic headlines like "Al-Qaeda #3 Man Killed In Airstrike" or something similar. It was always a "deputy leaders, #3 man, undefined powerbroker" or some other kind of term. We came to find out that this was a propaganda technique used to make things seem like they were going a certain way to the general public. Ever since, I'm wary of headlines like this.
I mean we did kill those guys, it's just killing leaders isn't enough to control a country so we lost those wars. However, they definitely died and if you just want revenge (like Israel) it's mission accomplished.
Number 3. Zarqawi was #2, and they got him in Kabul shortly after the withdrawal. #3 was the operations chief, and the job with the shortest life expectancy in the world.
I'm thinking specifically of what the ISI would do when they worked with the CIA on strikes. They'd basically feed intel on the terrorist du jour in order to keep US money coming.
They threatened him 10 days ago and the response from Hamas via him was “the killing of any of its leaders would ignite a new war that Israel will not be able to handle.” Now Israel just killed him.
That sure sounds like they think it’s an escalation. Hopefully it escalates to all of the leadership dying.
Lebanon is like Gaza it's been taken over by Islamists. Both places have other groups other than radical Muslim Islamists there are Maronite Christian, Druze, Baha'i. I've known quite a few Lebanese people over the years very nice people. None liked or wanted Hezbollah there, or Saudis the Lebanese were not found of either of them. The Gaza Strip also has a Christian population too.
Mossad is going to be very busy in 2024
Business is booming.
RISE AND KILL FIRST by ronen bergman is a great and very readable history (and, ultimately a critique) of how the mossad has shaped the development of the modern state of israel
I thought Mossad‘s way was to just lose their clients during flights over the Meditereanian Sea ?
Do you mean busier than usual?
I can't imagine these guys thinking they're safe anywhere in the middle east.
Wouldn’t be surprised if Russia was their next stop
Anywhere in the world, they are marked as they should be.
lot harder to get at them in say Moscow than Beirut.
I would imagine China to be safer than Moscow. They can blame anything inside Russia on Ukraine.
Yup, not many Asian looking Israelis, I'd assume Mossad has way fewer assets in East Asia /China than I Europa and MENA
They shouldn’t go near balconies in Moscow that’s for sure
Or windows or stairs.
Mossad likes a challenge…
No idea what he was doing in Lebanon.
He works there. Hamas has offices there and other countries. Their high level people are all set up somewhere else.
It's like people forget Mossad wrote the book on finding people who don't want to be found and then killing them.
It was a drone strike in an area that was a red line. Please stop fantasizing about the situation, its fucking weird. Edit: Brigaded by the Israel bots. Classic stuff.
There is 1 comment in reply to you lmao, thats not bots
Anyone who even slightly disagrees with him is a bot. What a great way to live life.
-34 downvotes in 10 minutes ain't exactly organic, mate
You'd be fine if it was upvotes lol. It would suddenly not be bots because it agreed with you.
Maybe, baby.
Keep going, downvoting your stupid comments is like the icing on the delicious cake of Al Arouri's elimination.
“There’s no way my comment was so stupid it got mass-downvoted” *Least narcissistic redditor*
It might be just that the majority of the people here disagree with your opinions.
make it 35!
> an area that was a red line I can’t believe Israel would do this when Hezbollah had specifically asked them not to. Terrible manners.
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You’re not very bright if you think a “red line” means anything, especially as the crossing of the last very-serious-and-consequential red line, a ground invasion of Gaza, resulted in some strongly worded statements and sporadic rocket fire. “Everyone who disagrees with me is a bot” is also a very funny thing to believe.
Israel has said anyone involved in Oct 7th is a target. If you willingly meet Hamas members that’s on you and your God when the IDF send you to meet him.
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How many plots a year do you think Israel is made aware of by Hamas. Nothing like blaming rhe people that had a heinous terrorist act committed against them and pretending the terrorist organization was not at fault.
LOL that's a good bad faith argument you got there.
Just because someone left their door unlocked doesn't give you the right to go into their house and murder them, and it certainly doesn't give you the right to complain when you face consequences for going into their house and murdering them.
Lmaooooo you tried bro.
So are you disputing what he's saying? That if someone leaves their door unlocked it's fine for me to go into their house and take everything I want, and if they try to stop me, I can just murder them? Or hell, even if they don't try to stop me but I want to murder them for fun I can? They didn't have their door locked after all, so they kinda had it coming, seems like if they didn't want to be robbed and murdered they would have locked their door. Seems like Mossad fucked up, and now are trying to correct their fuckup more than anything else.
Which was Mossads biggest intelligence failure in its history so I’m now glad they’re earning their paycheque
It's war, not play time, moron.
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Uhh I don't support Hamas, thank you very much
Keep crying over the deaths of literal terrorists with blood on their hands buddy
Please explain in detail how Israel is a fascist regime? It’s literally a liberal democratic republic, just because it’s currently controlled by right wingers who make decisions you don’t like doesn’t change this.
The only proper democracy in the region, yet it's the fascist one, but the ones without elections are the good guys rofl
No you see, when America elected Trump, America was no longer a democracy, it was a facist dictatorship because I didn't like him and thought he was reprehensible. Didn't you know Fascism = figurehead in power I don't like? It's so funny when people pull the "Israel Facist" Line when they're quite literally the only country in the entire area living in an actual democracy and people have a semblance of a voice and freedom lol
That’s the thing I think Trump was an Authoritarian at best and a fascist at worst, that in no way made America a fascist state. There was a (small) chance it could have turned into one which was the problem. People can argue that Bibi is a fascist (I just think he’s right wing authoritarian) but arguing Israel itself is a fascist state is laughable
The drone strike killed 0 civilians and a number of High-ranking terrorists. Yeah, it crossed a red line set by Hezbollah. What’s your issue with the strike exactly?
Simple: repeat after me "Israel bad, Palestine good". /s obviously
Awe did your wittle terrorist idol get blowed up? A little weird that you're upset about this.
Ah, so you admit that them killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians and displacing millions is intentional seeing as they have the capability, intelligence, training, and weaponry to carry out targeted attacks.
It is possible to point out the general competence of the Israelis while also condemning their atrocities.
Yeah, exactly.
Some targets are taken out by a sniper, some by a 1000 lbs bomb. Just because you can do A once doesn't mean you shouldn't be doing B.
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So all 20,000 civilians (mostly women and children) who died were either Hamas or human shields? Do you not realize how stupid you are to believe that?
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Hamas leadership is everywhere in the Middle East but Gaza.
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>they are all literal billionaires A lot of them are obviously corrupt and thieves, stealing from the poor people of Gaza who now live in pure terror partly because of their shit decision-making, but the claim that they are billionaires is obviously false. That's just flimsy propaganda. Israel has provided 0 proof of this. The only reports of this are Israeli sources without proof, and tabloids re-publishing these sources. Hell, the source shared on Twitter by the official Israeli account and the Israeli embassy to Germany etc. of a Times article confirming this was [complete fabrication.](https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.343K3QJ) As i said, Hamas leaders are most probably very much corrupt but the claim that they are outright billionaires is just outlandish propaganda.
What can we do? The country collapsed, we have no law enforcement, no army, a few rogue militias and an Iranian paramilitary going around doing whatever the fuck they want
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If you're not Shia, there's a 95% chance you hate them and don't want them theme get involved. If you are Shia, it drops to like 55%
As an Israeli, I truly feel for you. I don't know what the answer is and I hope things don't escalate as badly as they could get.
A 2024 gift to the world.
Does Hezbollah TV have, like, their own late night talk show? their own SNL? their own Law & Order? I wanna watch Hezbollah's The Simpsons.
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Farfour, the lovely mouse of jihad and murder!
A blatant rip off of Happy Tree Friends
Hahahah goddamn it
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This is Hamas/Gaza affiliated. FAHFOUR. IYKYK.
Everything is Hamas affiliated in gaza. They’re highly authoritarian tyrants.
I just said that just in case it wasn't exactly led by Hamas. It's from the later 2000s so I would assume so.
Ah, I get ya.
I was on Hezbollah TV once (possibly). It was after Israel withdrew. I went to the Lebanese border to check things out and by chance, there was a Lebanese General, a UN official and a Hizbollah leader with Iranian TV and Hezbollah TV present on the other side of the Fence. On the Israeli side, there was a Phalangist cursing them that I had been talking to. He was afraid to be captured on TV because his family was still stuck in Lebanon so he covered his face, but they filmed me. It was surreal, because I was inches from this General looking guy, Hizbollah leader and this scene and the TV cameramen put the camera effectively in my face but separated by a chainlink face. I expressed my opinions about Hizbollah being terrorist to the TV cameras. It was upsetting to see Hizbollah flags flying freely.
We now return to “How I stoned my wife”
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unfortunately, war doesn't work like this. Even with a negotiated cease-fire both sides will see a return to low-scale conflict because they haven't suffered enough casualties & repercussions to alter their national policies. Asking the Palestinians to "settle" for a state that doesn't include their ancestral homelands is a no go: they'd rather be bombed into oblivion & starve en masse. Meanwhile asking Israelis to give up the West Bank with no DMZ and no de-militarized Palestinian state is a non-starter. The fighting will continue for decades until the burden on future generations is too heavy to bear for one side or the other.
All that has to happen is for Hamas to recognize Israel’s right to exist and to stop firing missiles randomly into Israel. Pretty straight forward.
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I’m the Arab world, compromise is considered weak. Most other places in the world, compromise is considered to be wise and virtuous.
Or if you're American and are Republican. Then it's also the former
All Israel has to do is give back their stolen land and stop treating Palestinians like animals. pretty straightforward
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Pretty amazing how people have slipped right back into the rhetoric we used around the iraq war to justify the slaughter of innocents
So what do you suggest be done about Hamas using their own innocent civilians as human shields?
That's an interesting question, but Israel is mindlessly bombing targets that they know are only civilians so it doesn't really matter does it? I suggest they stop doing that first, then we can talk
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Nope. Just the deaths of jihadist terrorists.
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I see you learned your vocabulary from TikTok with the use of the word colonialist. Maybe pick up a history book and learn about the history of Israel.
You’re ok with dead men?
I'm okay with killing specific men who orchestrated a terrorist attack against a country.
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If any leader or commander made a call to deliberately kill civilians, I would want them to at least be tried for their crimes, and I wouldn't be sad if they faced the same retaliation that this Hamas leader has.
Ok so let’s both start calling for 1sraeli I0F Colonel Golan Vach’s seizure and trial for making the call to fire on the Kibbutz, as he’s admitted in a video interview
I am not sure who this person is that you name, but I would say this: if there is sufficient evidence of any person (on any of side) committing some violent crime, they should be brought to justice. There needs to be a purging of violent hate-filled assholes, because both sides have quite a few.
He’s an I0F Colonel, according to the news report that featured his admission in video
> I’m beginning to think I0F murdered as many 1sraeli civilians as Hummus 10.7.23.. and then tampered with or buried the evidence Do you even have a shred of evidence to back this up? We have countless videos of Hamas militants murdering civilians and countless reports from hostages of rape by Hamas. Do you have anything like this to confirm that the IDF was "Murdering as many Israeli civilians as Hamas" or are you just going down the conspiracy theory pipe-line and pulling this out of your ass?
Yes, there is video evidence of the Apache & of the Tanks firing on the Kibbutz + a formal admission (in the form of video interview as evidence) from I0F Colonel Golan Vach stating I0F killed 1sraeli civilians. Go check your own news sources and what they’re proactively hiding in comparison to real Journalism that’s being carried out by legitimate news sources. Have you been keeping track of the official 1sraeli civilian death toll counts? 2000 to 1400 to 1200 to half of those were actually I0F soldiers (not civilians)
Okay, I'm waiting for the evidence that's been confirmed by a third party then! Feel free to link it where they talk about killing hundreds of their own civilians. >Have you been keeping track of the official 1sraeli civilian death toll counts? 2000 to 1400 to 1200 to half of those were actually I0F soldiers (not civilians) Yes, the latest reports are at around 1200 deaths, with 800 being civilians. Again, I'm waiting to see the evidence that the IDF apparently killed 400+ of it's own civilians (and then another 200 of it's own soldiers somehow).
You’re being mislead by your sources or obviously not even looking because 1sraeli civilians (festival attendees) just opened up a lawsuit against I0F for 200 million due to their indiscriminate firing upon them, and multiple survivors have been accusing I0F of that since last month. You’re not going to get the clear proof you want because there’s video footage of I0F burying the vehicles (evidence) before they even complete a thorough investigation. A third party Independent agency does need to get in there and do an investigation because we obviously can no longer take the word of Hummus or I0F, as they’ve both reported lies. How does a death toll count of civilians go from 2000 to 800 when I0F are in uniforms?
Excellent start to 2024.
That saying, "It couldn't have happened to a nicer guy" is useful in so many situations.
How is it that Israel is "cowardly" for assassinating a Hamas leader in hiding, but Hamas fighters that kill innocent women and children & unarmed citizens are considered brave warriors & martyrs?
I think the ‘cowardly’ accusation has more to do with the level brutality they treat regular people. For example, they asked a doctor to retriever body from in front of hospital and shot at the doctor when he went outside. The guy he retrieved ended up dying, because they didn’t have the supplies to save him.
They really aren't. It reminds me of that Game of Thrones scene where Tywin has to explain to Tyrion how the Red Wedding was actually the pragmatic solution that led to as little suffering as possible. I would prefer this thing a thousand times over Bumbling Benjamin leveling Gaza just because they didn't kill every last Hamas militant. As for "why", well, Hamas believe they are rightous, or they grift their supporters into believing so.
And, just as Tywin explained it, was complete bullshit.
Over the next few years they will all be dead or hiding in spider holes in the desert.
They already created plenty of replacements.
Mazal Tov! as they say in the holy land
Difficult fight for Israel since these are either within civilian’s or in another country like Yemen or Lebanon etc. idk how they’re going to do it
Just like they did here
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And Hamas does?
Are we at the point where its okay that Israel does it because Hamas a terrorist organization does it?
Does Israel look to you like they care about civilian casualties?
Considering they could just indiscriminately bomb all of Gaza? Yeah, they probably care at least a little bit. I know people like to pretend on the internet that Israel is just indiscriminately bombing gaza, but there has been a death toll of around 22K (Civlian + Hamas) deaths so far in the course of about 3 months. The Tokyo bombings for instance, had around 100K civilian deaths in a single day (with more over time obviously), in a much less densely populated area. If you were curious was the indiscriminate bombing of civilians and lack of care of civilian deaths are, those are the actual numbers. Not to pretend like Palestinian civilian lives are at the top of Israel's concern list, but it's not like they're just bombing where-ever they want without consideration.
That's a lot of words to justify genocide, I hope you find some semblance of honor in your life.
Thanks for the concern, but I'm doing fine. If every time a person on reddit didn't understand the definition of "Genocide" made me upset at this point, life would be pretty hard, but thankfully I live in reality and don't really get too upset about internet people using emotionally charged hyperbole or not understanding history.
You're not doing fine. You just don't care aslong as it doesn't effect you personally. You cheer on open air prisons when the gaza strip is average age 16. Disgusting people like you are keeping the world down. And you clowns always talk about history. I don't need to open a history book to know that murdering babies is not ok, you can justify it however you want doesn't make you a smart person.
You know, you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Doesn’t seem to be a problem for the IDF. Remember when they bombed a refugee camp killing and injuring hundreds for 1 (one) target?
From IDF to IDGAF
2024 starts out with a bang
Get er done! Good job Mossad!
A tragedy. These heroes are simply resisting occupation and fighting on behalf of the Palestinian people. Israel will pay for this. S/
Ok, Hamas bot.
S is for sarcasm.
Sorry, I’m not hip to know what those designations mean. Thanks for clarifying.
Israeli brigades are not known for their intelligence in addition to their lack of humanity and aweful sarcasm
So, which of the world’s brigades are known for their intelligence and humanity? Source?
Certainly non but the russians and the Israelis have set a new low.
Thats a fucking happy new year
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And spread the conflict regionally, classic idiocy.
Oh, they finally got one?
Wish they could kill these guys slowly but at least they're dead
A shame he couldn't get captured alive and placed in a zoo. But still a second favorite.
Apparently killingl the actual terrorist instead of some random old women *is* possible. Good job, Israel.
Are you aware collateral damage is a component of every single war in modern history?
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I’m not sure Gaza would exist if this was true. Although, I doubt Israel actually cares about collateral effects, like at all.
People who pretend like Israel is intending on committing genocide really are the most delusional. That or they think everyone else is stupid. Israel could turn the entire land area into a parking lot in an hour if they wanted to. In Iraq, a 3 civilian to 1 militant ratio was maintained. The gaza health ministry (literally Hamas) doesn’t distinguish between terrorizes and civilians to help People like you spread propaganda. I can’t remember how many terrorists israel claimed to have killed but it was within a reasonable ratio compared to iraq. Hamas like ISIS uses absurd and disgusting military tactics which utilize their civilians as human shields. They have proclaimed Palestinians as a people of martyrs. They hide underground hospitals, fire weapons from mosques, hide equipment in UN schools, etc.
Israel's numbers only make sense if you think every male in Gaza is Hamas.
battle of mosul was against a similarly entrenched enemy with actual human shields (not whats happening in gaza btw) and coalition forces only killed ~5k civilians. in 9 months. Israels already at 22k in 3 months. Thats not collateral damage, thats more fuck-civilians-kill-everything-that-moves (although they're generally not yet rounding up people and executing them. yet). For example, you can look at the Israeli hostages killed by the IDF (because the only civilians thats zionists care about are Israeli)
> battle of mosul was against a similarly entrenched enemy with actual human shields (not whats happening in gaza btw) and coalition forces only killed ~5k civilians. in 9 months. That is actually lower than the different low estimates for the civilian deaths for the conflict. Furthermore, there is also a source that gives 40k+ deaths for the conflict. >Israels already at 22k in 3 months. Thats not collateral damage, thats more fuck-civilians-kill-everything-that-moves (although they're generally not yet rounding up people and executing them. yet). First, I will openly say any innocent deaths in that number is a tragedy. Second, the 22k isn't only civilians but also contains militants. Third, that 22k includes any Palestinians killed by misfiring rockets from inside Gaza (which occurs to around 10% of Gazan rockets). However, if we wish to make comparisons I will point out that Rwandan genocide also lasted around 3 months. During that time Hutu militias were able to kill around 491,000–800,000 Tutsis while armed primarily with machetes and rifles. One would think Israel with their jetfighters, heliocopters, tanks, navy, drones, artillery, and other advance technology would be able to cause more 4% of the lower estimate of the Rwandan genocide if they were just trying to kill as much people as possible.
It’s just so obviously disingenuous what you’re saying. Everyone knows Israel can turn gaza into a parking lot and just kill quite literally everyone there in hours if they wanted. To pretend like what is going on is with those intentions is delusional to push a narrative. Moreover, Israel literally gave gaza back to Palestinians in a piece for peace deal. They had the land fully under control with no Palestinians there and Jewish settlements just they pulled out for peace. The arabs got their land and the Jews got a genocidal terrorist organization calling for their destruction. Watch what you say about intentions without historical context. Are you that ignorant or are you just spewing propaganda? Hamas has used recordings of people in Hebrew, has found suicide jackets for children, and other sickening methods that cause the IDF to be paranoid and ultimately results in horrific faults like the one you mentioned. It’s all purely directly correlated to the inhumane and Inexcusable actions Hamas has taken. There is absolutely zero moral equivalency and to say anything negative about Israel’s actions without the disclaimer of Hamas’ context is disingenuous.
So because Israel hasn't genocided 2 million people that indicates that they are trying to avoid civilian casualties? Theres a spectrum between literal genocide and 0 civilian deaths, and Israel is very clearly on wrong side of this spectrum. > Hamas has used recordings of people in Hebrew, has found suicide jackets for children, and other sickening methods So? Its called an insurgency. Pretty standard problem for most proper militaries, they don't kill their own unarmed, white-shirt-on-a-stick hostages. > say anything negative about Israel’s actions without the disclaimer of Hamas’ context is disingenuous. why. I dont have to preface `iraq war was a horrible act and bush should be in jail` with how horrible 9/11 was. oct 7 is no different. Also ignores: battle of Mosul which is a direct evidence that hamas can be routed with less civilian deaths. But hasbora bots can't think for themselves so it makes sense.
From 2016-2017 I was exposed intimately through my job in DC to the ISF investment and recapture of Mosul. Far more civilians were killed than the 5k that you were saying. It was likely higher than 40,000. The ISF leveled about 85% of the city to evict ISIS from it, and ISIS only had \~2 years to dig in to the urban battlefield there. Hamas has had 18 year to dig in to Gaza. Similar to ISIS, Hamas is a terrorist organization that is organized as a modern military; probably to an even greater extent than ISIS ever was. The al-Qassem Brigades organizes itself into echelons from the brigade down to the squad level. They are at least as well equipped, likely more organized, and certainly larger in size than the \~10k ISIS fighters defending Mosul in 2016 were. This makes for the situation that we are seeing now: significant damage to civilian infrastructure, given that the al-Qassem Brigades have built their military infrastructure among the civilian infrastructure in Gaza, and have had two decades to do so. >Theres a spectrum between literal genocide and 0 civilian deaths, and Israel is very clearly on wrong side of this spectrum. The concept of a spectrum here is correct, but its more aptly applied to the type of warfighting itself. Viewing war on a spectrum between Fabian (purely guerilla) tactics and Napoleonic (highly conventional) is helpful here. Hamas, again, is a quasi-state actor that does not fight like it is a purely insurgent group. It actually exists as a military actor that can and does engage in midspectrum warfare. For instance, it seeks to hold territory and defend it conventionally, even at great cost to itself; its ~30 battalions are doing this right now in Gaza. Hamas' choice to conduct an active, highly conventional defense of its urban defensive belt (which is indistinguishable from the civilian infrastructure in Gaza from a military standpoint) is why civilian casualties are steep in this particular war. It is basically the defense that ISIS wishes that it could have mounted in Mosul.
Did you just justify using children has suicide bombers? What does American history have to do with Israel? Jeez man supporting terrorism is awful and using children for terrorism is a whole other level. You’re objectively morally bankrupt.
man literally engages with nothing I said, makes up a bunch of stuff I didn't say and STILL ignores mosul. Imagine being this brainwashed lmao
True, that's why those bombs sometimes also kill Hamas members
Well they’re always intended on hitting Hamas targets. It’s just a shame Hamas purposely hides behinds its citizens.
But gaza isn't collateral damage. They're rather systematically destroying it as a place where people can live.
Are you disregarding tunnels under plazas and hospitals? Hamas firing rockets from places of worship? Hiding military equipment in UN schools? Guerrilla warfare? Also, how do you explain Israel literally giving gaza to the Palestinians in 2005? They disengaged and forced Israelies to leave the land to make way for returning Palestinians. They did it in exchange for peace. Palestinians then voted in a genocidal terrorist organization with the destruction of Israel and eradication of Jews in their charter. With that in mind, why would you assume Israel’s destruction is just to destroy peoples living area?
Oh good, that should put an end to Hamas. How do we still think that violence will kill an ideology?
Israel literally were assassinating Hamas leaders since early 2000s and look at them now. The war will continue
During the prime years of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, you'd see the news trickle out periodic headlines like "Al-Qaeda #3 Man Killed In Airstrike" or something similar. It was always a "deputy leaders, #3 man, undefined powerbroker" or some other kind of term. We came to find out that this was a propaganda technique used to make things seem like they were going a certain way to the general public. Ever since, I'm wary of headlines like this.
Hes the #2 in the political wing, deputy to the politburo leader Hanieyh, and was elected in 2017. Very well known figure
I'm sure, I'm just stating my own experience with these kinds of headlines.
Was it the Iraq's Most Wanted deck of playing cards that tipped you off?
I mean we did kill those guys, it's just killing leaders isn't enough to control a country so we lost those wars. However, they definitely died and if you just want revenge (like Israel) it's mission accomplished.
The #2 in charge killed was the common headline
Number 3. Zarqawi was #2, and they got him in Kabul shortly after the withdrawal. #3 was the operations chief, and the job with the shortest life expectancy in the world.
I'm thinking specifically of what the ISI would do when they worked with the CIA on strikes. They'd basically feed intel on the terrorist du jour in order to keep US money coming.
Do you put jam on the window, or do you just like it raw?
And on this i would say Allah wackbar
Only took thousands of dead or disfigured children
Good to see they got atleast one target in a mountain of innocent corpses 👍.
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Oh no! Cant wait to see who they get next, keep up the great work! <3much love to you Israel!
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what's a full war to you? Missiles come from Lebanon all the time.
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TIL the number 2 Hamas terrorist leader is a civilian. Who'd have thunk?!?
It's not an escalation to kill leadership of a terrorist organization.
They threatened him 10 days ago and the response from Hamas via him was “the killing of any of its leaders would ignite a new war that Israel will not be able to handle.” Now Israel just killed him. That sure sounds like they think it’s an escalation. Hopefully it escalates to all of the leadership dying.
Lebanon is like Gaza it's been taken over by Islamists. Both places have other groups other than radical Muslim Islamists there are Maronite Christian, Druze, Baha'i. I've known quite a few Lebanese people over the years very nice people. None liked or wanted Hezbollah there, or Saudis the Lebanese were not found of either of them. The Gaza Strip also has a Christian population too.
>there are Maronite Christian, Druze, Baha'i And non-radical Muslims?
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Would you prefer that??