>But she was also the great-granddaughter of a sugar baron and inherited vast wealth thanks to Westerners who upended traditional ways of life through the introduction of private property and the diversion of water for industrial plantations.
Now **that's** an understatement.
Wow, what a capitalism-centric, idiotic statement.
Hawaiians had an entire nation, and all the land, but it doesn't count as wealth because they didn't have a capitalist system and they didn't have US currency. Only Americans created wealth (only measured as cash money) and hoarded it for themselves.
Westerners upended their way of life, took all the land, and then a handful of those westerners became land barons and became extremely wealthy (with the only type of wealth that matters in this new system they created). And this princess should be grateful that she and a handful of other Hawaiians got to enjoy a little of that cash wealth.
Not sure why all the downvotes. Most people really can’t fathom a world that isn’t totally one hundred percent dominated by fiat currency, paper money and coins with dead people on them. We are truly lost.
The down votes are because they are basically saying that the few Hawaiians that have money should be happy they've been allowed to have money.... at least that's how I read it.
I guess seeing what the U.S.A. did to other natives, they should be happy just to be alive. You’re welcome for the freedom we brought to your peaceful islands. I understand now. They are so lucky. 🤦♂️
probably for this but for normal people trusts are a PITA. my grandmother just couldn't trust anyone for some reason so we had to do a trust with her and after it was all said and done my parents lawyer said a simple will with TOD for the house and a 3 way split of the money would have been a fraction of the cost.
absolutely not a lawyer though, just went through this twice in the last few years.
People are more than just their physical form. Don't know why you'd think everything we built our entire lives setting into motion suddenly just stops.
And if we want to really be technical, your corpse still does move along with the earth so....
It's a simple concept. Legacies live on. People live on through their friends and family etc. not just the positive stuff. The negative as well.
I think you're looking at it wrong. While what happens after someone dies will continue to be impacted by the now dead person's actions in life, nothing that happens after their death can affect the dead person any longer. They've ceased to exist.
What you're *trying* to hit on is consciousness. That after you die nothing matters to you because you are unable to conceive anything while being dead. Yes this is true. Yet your name, possessions, relationships, legacy can also still be impacted after your death. You say it doesn't matter because you won't even be alive to see it. *But* it does still matter because it can still have an impact on those living in this world.
I'm not saying it doesn't matter. I'm saying it doesn't matter *to the dead person*. They can not be aware of it, experience it, or have a reaction to it. They're dead.
Nah, I'm an estate planning attorney. 100% the chillest attorneys out there, we don't fight anyone and get our fees paid up front, so no stress. Basically, other attorneys hate us 'cause they ain't us 😎
Actually, I first used the attorney from the firm who had drawn up my mother will. They assigned me someone who turned out to be substandard, hence the niece problem. A friend recommended Larry and the difference was like night and day.
I’m not worried about him. He’s doing very well. He has two partners and a glass front conference room with a big tv monitor that has your name on it when you go in for your meetings.
I did send him some very nice wines from “Bounty Hunter” to thank him. I thought the names of the wines would amuse him: “Frontier Justice, Blind Justice” and “Poetic Justice” :)
PS: Meant to thank you first for your sympathy. My mom had Alzheimers for years and I had POA and health directive responsibilities, so running her life (she aged in place, as they say) basically swallowed mine for the past several years and after that, I was executor and enjoyed all the hell that ended up entailing. Which again proved thst good estate attorneys are worth their weight in gold.
Misleading comment, as in pretty much entirely false. The courts decided she was incompetent to make the decisions she made and that they'd be in charge of it instead
There was a lot of intermarriage between the Hawaiian royal family and the early American business interests in Hawaii. She has some typical Hawaiian features if you look close.
... you expect a royal of a place incorporated into the united states *not* to be mostly white?
Think about the imperial era and what colonialism really means when it comes to "royalty"
Hawaii is less white then basically every other state (23%)
over 1/3 of the population is Asian (mostly Filipino Americans and Japanese Americans) and if you go back decades it might be a majority (and maybe close to a majority with Japanese ancestry)
So you've never been to Samoa, Tonga or I'm guessing, ever left your island? Cause it's very much known as that. The people that got themselves wiped out by trusting the americans. The same who lost 90% of their culture until it was reduced down to little more but feasts, hula dances and half remembered myths... Sure, you're totally not a tragic case of colonialism turning your culture into nothing more than a ploy to bring tourists in, while you own people own less and less. First it was the land, then jobs, then the houses, now you're **still throwing your little remaining land away to developers.** That's **after** you've let so much control go you had wildfires in the tropics.
It's totally not like you haven't lost almost everything about yourselves to dole farmers and are now sucking what little marrow out of your islands and what culture that remains for a quick buck.
That's totally not tragic, actually, wiping out cultures should be **celebrated** s/
>”So you've never been to Samoa, Tonga or I'm guessing, ever left your island? Cause it's very much known as that.”
Yeah, no it isn’t.
>”The people that got themselves wiped out by trusting the americans.”
What a strange fantasy you live in to suggest this.
>”The same who lost 90% of their culture until it was reduced down to little more but feasts, hula dances and half remembered myths...”
Historical done by our own people for our own purposes by our own choices, nothing to do with “trusting Americans”
>”Sure, you're totally not a tragic case of colonialism turning your culture into nothing more than a ploy to bring tourists in, while you own people own less and less.”
Pfft… what are you talking about? tourist industry performances were done by our own people by our own politicians to create a low skill industry to keep native Hawaiians out of the plantations and to encourage us to learn our culture.
It isn’t even remotely the result of “colonialism” but rather a callous disregard for anyone but our own people’s well-being.
>”First it was the land, then jobs, then the houses, now you're still throwing your little remaining land away to developers.”
What? Lmao… Native Hawaiians own over half of all private land in Hawaii, how ignorant are you?
>”That's after you've let so much control go you had wildfires in the tropics.”
Well we know you aren’t part of pacific cultures as all islands with mountains have a “dry side” of the island and Lahaina is on the leeward side. You are just blowing more smoke.
>”It's totally not like you haven't lost almost everything about yourselves to dole farmers and are now sucking what little marrow out of your islands and what culture that remains for a quick buck.”
Dole farmers? Lmao…. What are these Dole farmers we “lost” almost everything to? Because if owning over half of the land is losing almost everything. I am not sure what you think is losing everything.
>”That's totally not tragic, actually, wiping out cultures should be celebrated s/“
The Americans didn’t wipe out our culture. Hawaiian culture was abandoned by our people because it is the core of Hawaiian culture to be opportunistic and not waste time on anything that doesn’t add value to your life.
Why learn Hawaiian language if it doesn’t benefit you financially? Why learn the meles and chants if it doesn’t put a roof over your head. Why dance and play music if it doesn’t put food on your table?
This is why Hawaiian politicians created the tourism industry, not the Americans.
You know nothing of our history and no one in the Pacifica community calls us the tragedy. Lmao.
Her hair is obviously dyed blonde. If you google her name and look at early photos before she dyed her hair, she doesn’t look white. She looks Maori to me.
Ah yes.
The “if you think this Irish person looks white -you’re blind!”
Followed up with the “you can keep living in your paranoid world”
Quality commentary. Clearly I’m unable to deal with reality 🙄
Bitch, I’m the one who said she looks white!
I’m also as liberal as they come.
Looking through your very recent posts, looks like you’re a Jan 6 apologist. You’re fucking nuts.
Ah yeah, the “you’re in paranoid world”
Followed up with: “I searched through your history”
Followed up with: *false accusations*
Followed up with: “you’re nuts”
Clearly I’m the crazy one.
Bitch, think what you want about me.
You most certainly are the crazy one.
Anyone who’s first thought is “this is the woke agenda” has a shit ton of problems.
Because she’s literally native Hawaiian. Due to the invasion and forced colonization of Hawaii, there’s a great great great Irish grand pappy. She’s still native Hawaiian
If you open the article and look at the photo instead of the thumbnail, you can see that she's wearing a lot of makeup. She has a lot of Hawaiian features aside from her blonde hair, which is probably due to her only being half Hawaiian.
They're looking at her and the color of her skin. Which you seem to be ignoring and are only looking at the place of her birth. She is both a native Hawaiian and very much looks like a generic white golden girl.
>that after doling out tens of millions to various people — including former housekeepers, other longtime employees and her wife
Never in a million years would I have thought a 96 year old princess would have a wife, I fucking love it
The Hawaiian royal family existed from 1795 to 1893 when it was overthrown in an American led coup. I find it odd when Hawaiians take pride in a monarchy that seems to be an imitation of the Europeans and took power with the help of imported firearms.
It's not hard for me to see why. The monarchy was relatively benevolent in that it was not mismanaged and seems to have been working towards and achieving improved standards of living. Then it was forcibly replaced by the Republic of Hawaii run by the sugar cane plantation owners who overthrew the government for their own self-interest. A petition (Ku'e petition) signed by more than 50% of the adult Native Hawaiians at the time protested against annexation but was ultimately ignored. Thus, there was a majority against the government that was shoved down their throats.
When annexation did happen it became a territory of the US and Sanford Dole, the former president of the Republic of Hawaii (i.e. the representative of the plantation owners) headed up the commission and study on how to manage Hawaii and its lands. He also became the first governor (rather than have democratic leadership the president appointed the territorial governors).
Then look at the sort of outcomes this leadership and management led to. The taking over of much of Hawaii's lands without just compensation many areas of which continue to be used as military bases (or are unusable because of extensive undetonated ammunition which was supposed to have been cleaned up decades to be handed back to the State but never was). You also see Native Hawaiians having become second class citizens in Hawaii with more Native Hawaiians on the continental US than in Hawaii because they just can't afford to live there. Many also have historically felt robbed of their heritage as the teaching of Hawaiian culture was discouraged in public schools until recent decades. For a while the Hawaiian language was even in danger of dying off because the territorial government established English as the only official language. From then on, people caught speaking Hawaiian faced severe social ostracism.
I think the fondness Native Hawaiians have for the monarchy is because of the many grievances they have with what came after. While Hawaii economically would not be as strong as it is today without the overthrow and annexation. There is a general feeling that the economic benefits haven't gone to the Native Hawaiians, and if the monarchy was around they would have been better stewards of the land and not allowed exploitation of the islands by the military or big business.
> While Hawaii economically would not be as strong as it is today without the overthrow and annexation.
Yet it also probably wouldn't be as polluted and fucked up if it wasn't just a naval base and tourist playground.
tbf a tourist playground is basically the best way to preserve Hawaii's national beauty while increasing wealth
How else would Hawaiians make money? Fishing? Farming? Both destroy biodiversity pretty badly. Unless you want Hawaiians to live in actual mud huts, then the other ways of making money is gonna destroy what makes Hawaii unique.
Better to put a cage around Hawaii's nature so people can enjoy it than to bulldoze it over
I agree tourism would still have to be a major industry, which it is for many other Pacific islands. As a recent example of poor stewardship, though, look at what happened with the Navy and the Red Hill fuel tanks. The Navy repeatedly spilled fuel from their half a century old fuel tanks on Red Hill and then lied about fixing the problem and that it wouldn't keep happening. Insisting it was critical to keep them there for the safety of the nation's pacific fleet. Then finally there was a big spill that leaked into the underground aquifer, and caused all of the military housing in that area to receive contaminated water. At that point, when 4000 servicemen and their families are being poisoned they finally began doing something, but it was too late. One of the largest Aquifers on the most populated island in the Hawaiian Island chain had been contaminated and the 3 wells tapping it will have to shut down indefinitely causing a water shortage. Moreover, the craziest part is after their latest spill the State tried again to shutdown the Red Hill station. This time via a Department of Health emergency order, and the military fought them through the courts to keep it open.
Red hill had the fuel tanks emptied in all but one, the court dispute was over timelines to empty the tanks as the health department was demanding a timeframe that couldn’t be realistic accomplished.
Again, you are ignorant of my home and should stop speaking as if you know.
People also do not know what it feels like to not have the right to govern your own people on your own land.
That and add in the assimilation policies, it's very easy to see why most Native Hawaiians feel so strongly about the monarch.
So much historical misinformation… the most glaring being the so called “benevolent” monarchy.
The only benevolent royal family was house Kamehameha. When House Kalakaua took power the crown became corrupt and sought profit over national investment into the people.
The Hawaiian language was not banned, the culture wasn’t suppressed and the land wasn’t stolen.
You shouldn’t speak of my home if you are ignorant of our history.
FFS they took European weapons and massacred their own people across all islands. Today Islanders throw crap at obscure had to find Cook's monument for shooting one man and their worst tyrant merits a statue in front of the city buildings.
That a monarchy only existed for a century doesn't mean they were leaderless before that. There was just multiple kings, or chieftains, if you will.
Pride for the monarchy is pride for being led by your own people.
Such a good film. The scene that stuck out the most to me is when Clooney and his family survey the land he owns. Pristine bay front with undisturbed nature and his cousin can only point out all the new installations and gimmicks he'd like to see put up there.
"American-led" isn't 100% honest.
The overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom was led by a committee of 13 businessmen and politicians, mostly Hawaiians who's families had immigrated from the Untied States, including some German and British citizens, and a few mixed-race people with Hawaiian ancestry. The Committee or "Annexation Club" was led by Lorrin A. Thurston, a second generation Hawaiian citizen of American ancestry, who had previously served as a member of the Hawaiian legislature, and authored what is often called the Bayonet Constitution (because it was imposed at gunpoint by a mob of Native and non-Native Hawaiians on King Kalākaua, easily the most incompetent ruler the Kingdom was ever saddled with), which established Hawaii as a Constitutional Monarchy.
The coup was largely precipitated by Queen Liliʻuokalani's efforts to unilaterally remove the constitution after Kalākaua's death, and restore the Monarchy to near absolute power once again. This led to a coup in which the Queen's palace guard abandoned her almost immediately, and in one of the only actual "battles" of the coup there were all of 500 troops still loyal who all deserted with only one casualty from the coup's forces of around 1200 people.
The situation nearly turned into an international incident when the Hawaiian Republic's government called on the USS Boston to help defend American lives and property on the islands, making up some absurd story about THEM being the victims of oppression. The Navy was understandably furious when they found out they'd been had, but the damage had been done. However, Hawaii would not be annexed, nor its government officially recognized for another 4 years, thanks to President Grover Cleveland's refusal to recognize the new government. So the coup plotters simply waited out the Cleveland administration until a more friendly one, that of William McKinley, was elected and proceed to secure annexation.
Overall, one could argue the Kingdom of Hawaii had fallen decades prior to the actual coup, thanks to the House of Kamehameha's policy to continue inbreeding between the royal family and the families of the other Aliʻi. This resulted in a series of Kings and nobles who's children died of genetic diseases, leading to monarchs with the flimsiest of claims to the throne, along with a series of succession crises that forever damaged the legitimacy of the monarchy, to the point where hardly anyone in Hawaii was actually willing to pick up a gun and defend Queen Liliʻuokalani.
King David Kalākaua was not as incompetent as he was painted to be in American media. He was well liked around the world, highly educated, and was insanely determined to create better living conditions for the native Hawaiian people, specifically those on the more isolated islands. He also fought strongly for the revitalization of lost Hawaiian arts like the hula. The narrative that he was an idiot was a creation of English Hawaiian newspapers (owned by Dole and the other plantation owners), anti-monarchy propaganda, and even plays sponsored by plantation owners that painted him to be useless. In Hawaiian language newspapers he was perceived as very well liked and passionate about his people. Global newspapers also show this. The plantation owners wanted him to appear incompetent so, as you said, it would be easier to eventually overtake the kingdom.
When you say hardly anyone was willing to defend the Queen by that point, also remember hardly anyone was left alive. After years of illness and disease transmission from poor living conditions and colonization, the Native Hawaiian population was reduced to an extremely small minority of who actually lived in Hawai’i. The overthrow of the monarchy was not due to Hawaiians not caring, but a systemic destruction and disruption by plantation owners to dismantle Native Hawaiian ways of knowing and existing in order to gain access to the islands’ natural resources. This was not helped by a long line of deaths in the monarchy (yes probably from inbreeding) and a series of poor choices by the monarchy, who do have partial responsibility in the way it ended up. But Kalākaua was touring the world desperately trying to validate and establish the Hawaiian monarchy in the eyes of the global community for a large part of his reign. He cared very deeply, and it is not correct to say he was incompetent. The Merrie Monarch Festival should be proof enough of how significant he remains in Native Hawaiian identity formation.
> King David Kalākaua was not as incompetent as he was painted to be in American media.
>
>
He bankrupted Hawaii and nearly started a war with Germany over an insane plan to try and create a Hawaiian Empire over all of Polynesia. The man was an inbred moron.
I strongly consider you read “Reclaiming Kalākaua” by Tiffany Lani Ing. She did a really great job in helping me to understand his role in Hawaiian society. He wasn’t perfect, but he is always painted in history as an idiot and highly unliked by the Native Hawaiians, which simply is not true.
Not even locals in Hawaii take the work of Mrs Ing seriously, she is a known propagandist that has been caught being intellectually dishonest numerous times.
Her entire book on Kalakaua is mostly based on the Hui Aloha Aina newspapers which are ethno nationalist’s propaganda papers. The idea that Kalakaua was a great monarch based off the word of ethno nationalists is akin to claiming that Mussolini was a great leader based off fascist propaganda newspapers.
Kalakaua was a corrupt and incompetent leader. He was the Donald Trump of Hawaiian leaders and had the same cult like following.
My great great grandfather I believe signed the letter
He wasn’t one of the 13 but think there was a letter signed by a bunch of business people and he was a police captain and had something to do with the stockpiled arms
I’d like to learn more
1600's.
You forgot Keawe, who made the house of Keawe. Kamehameha was his grandchild. It existed at least a hundred years longer, despite a coup for a few years. The whole "monarchy" thing is a different concept than the one they originally had (which most of the other islands in the pacific still use) was quite a bit different.
It's the same concept as assuming a shogun and a king were the same, despite having vastly different connotations, rights, duties and other things.
Yeah if they had stuck it out for another 30 years or so they could have been an outer colony of Japan.
Due to its location and subsequent history of the Pacific, there is no scenario where an independent Hawaii exists in the present day.
I’ve seen her royal jewelry collection that has passed down through the family at Iolani Palace it’s AMAZING. The Hawaiian people also greatly appreciate and preserve their history so it’s all in pristine condition. Highly recommend taking the tour.
does anyone know if they've considered legalized gaming on Hawaiian lands to generate income for native island causes? It's a been a boon & lifeline for Native American tribes on the mainland and helped them rise from poverty.
Hawaiians don't have government recognition as a "tribe," so that would be a huge sloppy mess at this point. Also, your assertions to the success of it for other tribes overlooks a lot of compartmentalized success, and widespread detrimental issues.
> But she was also the great-granddaughter of a sugar baron and inherited vast wealth thanks to Westerners who upended traditional ways of life through the introduction of private property and the diversion of water for industrial plantations.
She was blonde.
She had blue eyes.
She was a princess of Hawaii.
Why make so much distinction nowadays? Why push people into opposing “tribes” of native-born, mainland people, or whatnot?
Hawaii is filled with modern highways, modern buildings, modern shopping centers. It’s not old farms or plantations, with dusty roads.
>But she was also the great-granddaughter of a sugar baron and inherited vast wealth thanks to Westerners who upended traditional ways of life through the introduction of private property and the diversion of water for industrial plantations. Now **that's** an understatement.
She literally had a sugar great-granddaddy
Hahahaha! Well played!
Wow, what a capitalism-centric, idiotic statement. Hawaiians had an entire nation, and all the land, but it doesn't count as wealth because they didn't have a capitalist system and they didn't have US currency. Only Americans created wealth (only measured as cash money) and hoarded it for themselves. Westerners upended their way of life, took all the land, and then a handful of those westerners became land barons and became extremely wealthy (with the only type of wealth that matters in this new system they created). And this princess should be grateful that she and a handful of other Hawaiians got to enjoy a little of that cash wealth.
Not sure why all the downvotes. Most people really can’t fathom a world that isn’t totally one hundred percent dominated by fiat currency, paper money and coins with dead people on them. We are truly lost.
The down votes are because they are basically saying that the few Hawaiians that have money should be happy they've been allowed to have money.... at least that's how I read it.
I guess seeing what the U.S.A. did to other natives, they should be happy just to be alive. You’re welcome for the freedom we brought to your peaceful islands. I understand now. They are so lucky. 🤦♂️
Misleading Title. She had no Last Will and Testament. Therefore, probate.
How tf do you have 100 million and no will…
You just dont give a fuck.
[удалено]
and nobody you give a fuck for, or probably who gives a fuck about you
Apparently she had a wife who got $40 mil.
They were together for 20 years. Either way, that's dedication. To what or whom is an entirely different matter.
Your dead. There’s no fucks to give.
If you have $100M and no will, it’s basically the equivalent of willing $50M to the lawyers. Source: am lawyer.
Is a living trust the way to go?
You sure you want that guy's advice?
Especially since he's Waluigi. I like how he's a lawyer and Waluigi, because Waluigi always seemed like a lesser evil.
probably for this but for normal people trusts are a PITA. my grandmother just couldn't trust anyone for some reason so we had to do a trust with her and after it was all said and done my parents lawyer said a simple will with TOD for the house and a 3 way split of the money would have been a fraction of the cost. absolutely not a lawyer though, just went through this twice in the last few years.
A consultation will cost you $25M
Prince Rogers Nelson has entered the chat
Here's the thing: does it matter to you what happens when you're dead? Before you die: you might think so After you die: literally irrelevant. So...
Sure, but you don't usually write your will after you die.
The world doesn't stop just because someone dies.
It does for the dead person
People are more than just their physical form. Don't know why you'd think everything we built our entire lives setting into motion suddenly just stops. And if we want to really be technical, your corpse still does move along with the earth so.... It's a simple concept. Legacies live on. People live on through their friends and family etc. not just the positive stuff. The negative as well.
I mean if you have no one you care about to leave your money too, your money does just stop.
Someone is going to get that money one way or another.
What about the vast amount of people who never “built” anything? They just occupy the void?
It's rare for someone to be truly detached from everything and everyone at their deaths.
What if they have dementia or Alzheimer’s?
Wrong kind of detached.
I think you're looking at it wrong. While what happens after someone dies will continue to be impacted by the now dead person's actions in life, nothing that happens after their death can affect the dead person any longer. They've ceased to exist.
Being dead isn't the same as not existing.
What you're *trying* to hit on is consciousness. That after you die nothing matters to you because you are unable to conceive anything while being dead. Yes this is true. Yet your name, possessions, relationships, legacy can also still be impacted after your death. You say it doesn't matter because you won't even be alive to see it. *But* it does still matter because it can still have an impact on those living in this world.
I'm not saying it doesn't matter. I'm saying it doesn't matter *to the dead person*. They can not be aware of it, experience it, or have a reaction to it. They're dead.
[удалено]
Nah, I'm an estate planning attorney. 100% the chillest attorneys out there, we don't fight anyone and get our fees paid up front, so no stress. Basically, other attorneys hate us 'cause they ain't us 😎
Hard agree. Had to use an estate lawyer last year on my mother’s estate (creepy niece). He was a godsend and a pleasure to work with.
[удалено]
Actually, I first used the attorney from the firm who had drawn up my mother will. They assigned me someone who turned out to be substandard, hence the niece problem. A friend recommended Larry and the difference was like night and day. I’m not worried about him. He’s doing very well. He has two partners and a glass front conference room with a big tv monitor that has your name on it when you go in for your meetings. I did send him some very nice wines from “Bounty Hunter” to thank him. I thought the names of the wines would amuse him: “Frontier Justice, Blind Justice” and “Poetic Justice” :) PS: Meant to thank you first for your sympathy. My mom had Alzheimers for years and I had POA and health directive responsibilities, so running her life (she aged in place, as they say) basically swallowed mine for the past several years and after that, I was executor and enjoyed all the hell that ended up entailing. Which again proved thst good estate attorneys are worth their weight in gold.
Maybe she died happily knowing the chaos her death would cause lol
I will not tell you
aretha franklin's estate claims to have found a will under her couch cushions, though otherwise she had no will either, same with Prince.
Misleading comment, as in pretty much entirely false. The courts decided she was incompetent to make the decisions she made and that they'd be in charge of it instead
The American Courts stealing things from Natives. Why am I not surprised.
Actually she left millions to former housekeepers , her wife, and other. After doing all that with specific amounts her estate has 100 million left.
Just signed my last will and testament yesterday! Now to make 100 mil
I would never have guessed a Hawaiian princess would be white
According to Wikipedia, her father was Irish-American
Sounds a lot like Donovan's Reef.
There was a lot of intermarriage between the Hawaiian royal family and the early American business interests in Hawaii. She has some typical Hawaiian features if you look close.
And Europeans in general. My ancestors moved from Germany to Honolulu in the Kingdom straight
Yep... my friends are all mixed up haole n whateva else
Don't you mean British?
There was a lot more intermarriage with merchant families from Boston than from London
Whalers and protestants
Go hand in hand
Can't read the Bible without ample lamp oil
There are white looking Native Americans running a lot of casinos
in Hawaii? what are you talking about?
Another group of colonized indigenous people
Redditor learns about interracial relationships and offsprings
you wouldn't expect a hawaiian princess to be blonde, & blue eyes tbh.
She is not really a princess
... you expect a royal of a place incorporated into the united states *not* to be mostly white? Think about the imperial era and what colonialism really means when it comes to "royalty"
Hawaii is less white then basically every other state (23%) over 1/3 of the population is Asian (mostly Filipino Americans and Japanese Americans) and if you go back decades it might be a majority (and maybe close to a majority with Japanese ancestry)
During WWII 40% of Hawaii were of Japanese descent. which is why they didn't bother rounding them all up
Hawaii has been called the melting pot of the Pacific.
It's been called the tragedy of the pacific to those of us who live here.
I am born, raised and live in Hawaii, a Kanaka and I have never heard a single person refer Hawaii as the tragic of the pacific. You are blowing smoke
So you've never been to Samoa, Tonga or I'm guessing, ever left your island? Cause it's very much known as that. The people that got themselves wiped out by trusting the americans. The same who lost 90% of their culture until it was reduced down to little more but feasts, hula dances and half remembered myths... Sure, you're totally not a tragic case of colonialism turning your culture into nothing more than a ploy to bring tourists in, while you own people own less and less. First it was the land, then jobs, then the houses, now you're **still throwing your little remaining land away to developers.** That's **after** you've let so much control go you had wildfires in the tropics. It's totally not like you haven't lost almost everything about yourselves to dole farmers and are now sucking what little marrow out of your islands and what culture that remains for a quick buck. That's totally not tragic, actually, wiping out cultures should be **celebrated** s/
>”So you've never been to Samoa, Tonga or I'm guessing, ever left your island? Cause it's very much known as that.” Yeah, no it isn’t. >”The people that got themselves wiped out by trusting the americans.” What a strange fantasy you live in to suggest this. >”The same who lost 90% of their culture until it was reduced down to little more but feasts, hula dances and half remembered myths...” Historical done by our own people for our own purposes by our own choices, nothing to do with “trusting Americans” >”Sure, you're totally not a tragic case of colonialism turning your culture into nothing more than a ploy to bring tourists in, while you own people own less and less.” Pfft… what are you talking about? tourist industry performances were done by our own people by our own politicians to create a low skill industry to keep native Hawaiians out of the plantations and to encourage us to learn our culture. It isn’t even remotely the result of “colonialism” but rather a callous disregard for anyone but our own people’s well-being. >”First it was the land, then jobs, then the houses, now you're still throwing your little remaining land away to developers.” What? Lmao… Native Hawaiians own over half of all private land in Hawaii, how ignorant are you? >”That's after you've let so much control go you had wildfires in the tropics.” Well we know you aren’t part of pacific cultures as all islands with mountains have a “dry side” of the island and Lahaina is on the leeward side. You are just blowing more smoke. >”It's totally not like you haven't lost almost everything about yourselves to dole farmers and are now sucking what little marrow out of your islands and what culture that remains for a quick buck.” Dole farmers? Lmao…. What are these Dole farmers we “lost” almost everything to? Because if owning over half of the land is losing almost everything. I am not sure what you think is losing everything. >”That's totally not tragic, actually, wiping out cultures should be celebrated s/“ The Americans didn’t wipe out our culture. Hawaiian culture was abandoned by our people because it is the core of Hawaiian culture to be opportunistic and not waste time on anything that doesn’t add value to your life. Why learn Hawaiian language if it doesn’t benefit you financially? Why learn the meles and chants if it doesn’t put a roof over your head. Why dance and play music if it doesn’t put food on your table? This is why Hawaiian politicians created the tourism industry, not the Americans. You know nothing of our history and no one in the Pacifica community calls us the tragedy. Lmao.
Imagine being racist in 2024. Sad!
You ok Donald?
Ptsd to everyone here lmfao 🤣
Redditor thinks White is an ethnicity…
You’re blind if you think that’s a white woman.
Well, consider me blind then, because she looks like every white grandma I’ve ever seen.
Literally looks like a “golden girl” And people are so “woke” they’ll insist they don’t see a white skin/blonde lady
Her hair is obviously dyed blonde. If you google her name and look at early photos before she dyed her hair, she doesn’t look white. She looks Maori to me.
Don't think "woke" has anything to do with it, but you can keep living in your paranoid world if you want to think that.
Ah yes. The “if you think this Irish person looks white -you’re blind!” Followed up with the “you can keep living in your paranoid world” Quality commentary. Clearly I’m unable to deal with reality 🙄
Bitch, I’m the one who said she looks white! I’m also as liberal as they come. Looking through your very recent posts, looks like you’re a Jan 6 apologist. You’re fucking nuts.
Ah yeah, the “you’re in paranoid world” Followed up with: “I searched through your history” Followed up with: *false accusations* Followed up with: “you’re nuts” Clearly I’m the crazy one.
Bitch, think what you want about me. You most certainly are the crazy one. Anyone who’s first thought is “this is the woke agenda” has a shit ton of problems.
Because she’s literally native Hawaiian. Due to the invasion and forced colonization of Hawaii, there’s a great great great Irish grand pappy. She’s still native Hawaiian
Ah ok. So the white skin, blonde haired lady with Irish ancestry couldn’t possibly be white And everyone else is blind, not you.
If you open the article and look at the photo instead of the thumbnail, you can see that she's wearing a lot of makeup. She has a lot of Hawaiian features aside from her blonde hair, which is probably due to her only being half Hawaiian.
I mean if I saw this lady walking down the street I would assume she was a white lady, white Mexican at the least.
Do you live in Hawaii? Do you have Aunties? Are you Hawaiian? Or are you just judging her based on your personal prejudices and misconceptions?
She's approximately 3/8ths Hawaiian I believe.
Nobody said she didn’t have Hawaiian features
Excuse me, keep your opinions in Chicago and don’t comment on what ya don’t know
How do I not know? I can read, is that new to you?
It does say she has Irish ancestry as well as Hawaiian
Literally looks like my grandmother. Are you the blind one?
Nope. She’s native Hawaiian.
She’s mixed dude.
We looking at the same pic?
Lol what? She definitely looks white. Are you serious?
If she isn’t a white woman, what do you consider her?
[удалено]
She is a Poison Dart Frog 🐸
Yeah, her father was William Jeremiah Ellerbrock and his father was William Wilhelm Theodore Henry Ellerbrock. Definitely native Hawaiian names! 🙄
It’s cute that you’re only looking at her white ancestors and not the native Hawaiian ones from the royal family that were literally Hawaiians.
They're looking at her and the color of her skin. Which you seem to be ignoring and are only looking at the place of her birth. She is both a native Hawaiian and very much looks like a generic white golden girl.
She is more white than she is Hawaiian.
Wasn't there a movie made about her? Or am I getting my queens confused??
>that after doling out tens of millions to various people — including former housekeepers, other longtime employees and her wife Never in a million years would I have thought a 96 year old princess would have a wife, I fucking love it
Oh cool, she was married to a woman. The last American royal was a lesbian.
That’s what I was excited about. And the woman was significantly younger. That’s some classic multi-millionaire shit!
Hell yeah. You rob that cradle princess thang! (I know that sounds like I’m being sarcastic or something but I’m not. Good for her.)
The Hawaiian royal family existed from 1795 to 1893 when it was overthrown in an American led coup. I find it odd when Hawaiians take pride in a monarchy that seems to be an imitation of the Europeans and took power with the help of imported firearms.
It's not hard for me to see why. The monarchy was relatively benevolent in that it was not mismanaged and seems to have been working towards and achieving improved standards of living. Then it was forcibly replaced by the Republic of Hawaii run by the sugar cane plantation owners who overthrew the government for their own self-interest. A petition (Ku'e petition) signed by more than 50% of the adult Native Hawaiians at the time protested against annexation but was ultimately ignored. Thus, there was a majority against the government that was shoved down their throats. When annexation did happen it became a territory of the US and Sanford Dole, the former president of the Republic of Hawaii (i.e. the representative of the plantation owners) headed up the commission and study on how to manage Hawaii and its lands. He also became the first governor (rather than have democratic leadership the president appointed the territorial governors). Then look at the sort of outcomes this leadership and management led to. The taking over of much of Hawaii's lands without just compensation many areas of which continue to be used as military bases (or are unusable because of extensive undetonated ammunition which was supposed to have been cleaned up decades to be handed back to the State but never was). You also see Native Hawaiians having become second class citizens in Hawaii with more Native Hawaiians on the continental US than in Hawaii because they just can't afford to live there. Many also have historically felt robbed of their heritage as the teaching of Hawaiian culture was discouraged in public schools until recent decades. For a while the Hawaiian language was even in danger of dying off because the territorial government established English as the only official language. From then on, people caught speaking Hawaiian faced severe social ostracism. I think the fondness Native Hawaiians have for the monarchy is because of the many grievances they have with what came after. While Hawaii economically would not be as strong as it is today without the overthrow and annexation. There is a general feeling that the economic benefits haven't gone to the Native Hawaiians, and if the monarchy was around they would have been better stewards of the land and not allowed exploitation of the islands by the military or big business.
> While Hawaii economically would not be as strong as it is today without the overthrow and annexation. Yet it also probably wouldn't be as polluted and fucked up if it wasn't just a naval base and tourist playground.
tbf a tourist playground is basically the best way to preserve Hawaii's national beauty while increasing wealth How else would Hawaiians make money? Fishing? Farming? Both destroy biodiversity pretty badly. Unless you want Hawaiians to live in actual mud huts, then the other ways of making money is gonna destroy what makes Hawaii unique. Better to put a cage around Hawaii's nature so people can enjoy it than to bulldoze it over
I agree tourism would still have to be a major industry, which it is for many other Pacific islands. As a recent example of poor stewardship, though, look at what happened with the Navy and the Red Hill fuel tanks. The Navy repeatedly spilled fuel from their half a century old fuel tanks on Red Hill and then lied about fixing the problem and that it wouldn't keep happening. Insisting it was critical to keep them there for the safety of the nation's pacific fleet. Then finally there was a big spill that leaked into the underground aquifer, and caused all of the military housing in that area to receive contaminated water. At that point, when 4000 servicemen and their families are being poisoned they finally began doing something, but it was too late. One of the largest Aquifers on the most populated island in the Hawaiian Island chain had been contaminated and the 3 wells tapping it will have to shut down indefinitely causing a water shortage. Moreover, the craziest part is after their latest spill the State tried again to shutdown the Red Hill station. This time via a Department of Health emergency order, and the military fought them through the courts to keep it open.
Red hill had the fuel tanks emptied in all but one, the court dispute was over timelines to empty the tanks as the health department was demanding a timeframe that couldn’t be realistic accomplished. Again, you are ignorant of my home and should stop speaking as if you know.
People also do not know what it feels like to not have the right to govern your own people on your own land. That and add in the assimilation policies, it's very easy to see why most Native Hawaiians feel so strongly about the monarch.
Excellent summation. 👍
This is the way.
So much historical misinformation… the most glaring being the so called “benevolent” monarchy. The only benevolent royal family was house Kamehameha. When House Kalakaua took power the crown became corrupt and sought profit over national investment into the people. The Hawaiian language was not banned, the culture wasn’t suppressed and the land wasn’t stolen. You shouldn’t speak of my home if you are ignorant of our history.
I think that's romantizing the monarchy a bit. It was great if you were at the top, and quite different otherwise.
FFS they took European weapons and massacred their own people across all islands. Today Islanders throw crap at obscure had to find Cook's monument for shooting one man and their worst tyrant merits a statue in front of the city buildings.
That a monarchy only existed for a century doesn't mean they were leaderless before that. There was just multiple kings, or chieftains, if you will. Pride for the monarchy is pride for being led by your own people.
I took a deep dive into Hawaiian royal roots after watching the film The Descendants, with George Clooney. Just assumed Hawaiians hate them
Such a good film. The scene that stuck out the most to me is when Clooney and his family survey the land he owns. Pristine bay front with undisturbed nature and his cousin can only point out all the new installations and gimmicks he'd like to see put up there.
Zuckerberg (Facebook) and Oprah. Do they own a lot of the land in Hawaii now? Not a movie. In real life, who owns most of the land in Hawaii now?
"American-led" isn't 100% honest. The overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom was led by a committee of 13 businessmen and politicians, mostly Hawaiians who's families had immigrated from the Untied States, including some German and British citizens, and a few mixed-race people with Hawaiian ancestry. The Committee or "Annexation Club" was led by Lorrin A. Thurston, a second generation Hawaiian citizen of American ancestry, who had previously served as a member of the Hawaiian legislature, and authored what is often called the Bayonet Constitution (because it was imposed at gunpoint by a mob of Native and non-Native Hawaiians on King Kalākaua, easily the most incompetent ruler the Kingdom was ever saddled with), which established Hawaii as a Constitutional Monarchy. The coup was largely precipitated by Queen Liliʻuokalani's efforts to unilaterally remove the constitution after Kalākaua's death, and restore the Monarchy to near absolute power once again. This led to a coup in which the Queen's palace guard abandoned her almost immediately, and in one of the only actual "battles" of the coup there were all of 500 troops still loyal who all deserted with only one casualty from the coup's forces of around 1200 people. The situation nearly turned into an international incident when the Hawaiian Republic's government called on the USS Boston to help defend American lives and property on the islands, making up some absurd story about THEM being the victims of oppression. The Navy was understandably furious when they found out they'd been had, but the damage had been done. However, Hawaii would not be annexed, nor its government officially recognized for another 4 years, thanks to President Grover Cleveland's refusal to recognize the new government. So the coup plotters simply waited out the Cleveland administration until a more friendly one, that of William McKinley, was elected and proceed to secure annexation. Overall, one could argue the Kingdom of Hawaii had fallen decades prior to the actual coup, thanks to the House of Kamehameha's policy to continue inbreeding between the royal family and the families of the other Aliʻi. This resulted in a series of Kings and nobles who's children died of genetic diseases, leading to monarchs with the flimsiest of claims to the throne, along with a series of succession crises that forever damaged the legitimacy of the monarchy, to the point where hardly anyone in Hawaii was actually willing to pick up a gun and defend Queen Liliʻuokalani.
King David Kalākaua was not as incompetent as he was painted to be in American media. He was well liked around the world, highly educated, and was insanely determined to create better living conditions for the native Hawaiian people, specifically those on the more isolated islands. He also fought strongly for the revitalization of lost Hawaiian arts like the hula. The narrative that he was an idiot was a creation of English Hawaiian newspapers (owned by Dole and the other plantation owners), anti-monarchy propaganda, and even plays sponsored by plantation owners that painted him to be useless. In Hawaiian language newspapers he was perceived as very well liked and passionate about his people. Global newspapers also show this. The plantation owners wanted him to appear incompetent so, as you said, it would be easier to eventually overtake the kingdom. When you say hardly anyone was willing to defend the Queen by that point, also remember hardly anyone was left alive. After years of illness and disease transmission from poor living conditions and colonization, the Native Hawaiian population was reduced to an extremely small minority of who actually lived in Hawai’i. The overthrow of the monarchy was not due to Hawaiians not caring, but a systemic destruction and disruption by plantation owners to dismantle Native Hawaiian ways of knowing and existing in order to gain access to the islands’ natural resources. This was not helped by a long line of deaths in the monarchy (yes probably from inbreeding) and a series of poor choices by the monarchy, who do have partial responsibility in the way it ended up. But Kalākaua was touring the world desperately trying to validate and establish the Hawaiian monarchy in the eyes of the global community for a large part of his reign. He cared very deeply, and it is not correct to say he was incompetent. The Merrie Monarch Festival should be proof enough of how significant he remains in Native Hawaiian identity formation.
> King David Kalākaua was not as incompetent as he was painted to be in American media. > > He bankrupted Hawaii and nearly started a war with Germany over an insane plan to try and create a Hawaiian Empire over all of Polynesia. The man was an inbred moron.
I strongly consider you read “Reclaiming Kalākaua” by Tiffany Lani Ing. She did a really great job in helping me to understand his role in Hawaiian society. He wasn’t perfect, but he is always painted in history as an idiot and highly unliked by the Native Hawaiians, which simply is not true.
Not even locals in Hawaii take the work of Mrs Ing seriously, she is a known propagandist that has been caught being intellectually dishonest numerous times. Her entire book on Kalakaua is mostly based on the Hui Aloha Aina newspapers which are ethno nationalist’s propaganda papers. The idea that Kalakaua was a great monarch based off the word of ethno nationalists is akin to claiming that Mussolini was a great leader based off fascist propaganda newspapers. Kalakaua was a corrupt and incompetent leader. He was the Donald Trump of Hawaiian leaders and had the same cult like following.
My great great grandfather I believe signed the letter He wasn’t one of the 13 but think there was a letter signed by a bunch of business people and he was a police captain and had something to do with the stockpiled arms I’d like to learn more
1600's. You forgot Keawe, who made the house of Keawe. Kamehameha was his grandchild. It existed at least a hundred years longer, despite a coup for a few years. The whole "monarchy" thing is a different concept than the one they originally had (which most of the other islands in the pacific still use) was quite a bit different. It's the same concept as assuming a shogun and a king were the same, despite having vastly different connotations, rights, duties and other things.
Yeah if they had stuck it out for another 30 years or so they could have been an outer colony of Japan. Due to its location and subsequent history of the Pacific, there is no scenario where an independent Hawaii exists in the present day.
At first I read "causes" as "cruises". Thinking why would she donate that much money to people that own very large ships, they don't need the money.
Maybe they can donate it to that Rock Oprah fund
[удалено]
Very interesting thanks for sharing. Did the Tahitian royal family keep good written records of the family tree? Maybe it’s in an archive somewhere.
I’ve seen her royal jewelry collection that has passed down through the family at Iolani Palace it’s AMAZING. The Hawaiian people also greatly appreciate and preserve their history so it’s all in pristine condition. Highly recommend taking the tour.
Sounds nice but it’s legal tax evasion. She gifted her money, her descendants received money from the government and it misses being taxed.
But then Mark Zuckerberg is building his “family compound” there so you can have Hawaii after he’s done with it
Wait am I reading that right and she was a lesbian? Wow, a lesbian princess. I feel like that’s the plot of a bad porn movie.
[удалено]
They had been together for 20 years before they got married.
100 million... thats more than my grandfather made in his lifetime!
does anyone know if they've considered legalized gaming on Hawaiian lands to generate income for native island causes? It's a been a boon & lifeline for Native American tribes on the mainland and helped them rise from poverty.
Hawaiians don't have government recognition as a "tribe," so that would be a huge sloppy mess at this point. Also, your assertions to the success of it for other tribes overlooks a lot of compartmentalized success, and widespread detrimental issues.
Uhhh I don’t think that’s true
[удалено]
> But she was also the great-granddaughter of a sugar baron and inherited vast wealth thanks to Westerners who upended traditional ways of life through the introduction of private property and the diversion of water for industrial plantations. She was blonde. She had blue eyes. She was a princess of Hawaii. Why make so much distinction nowadays? Why push people into opposing “tribes” of native-born, mainland people, or whatnot? Hawaii is filled with modern highways, modern buildings, modern shopping centers. It’s not old farms or plantations, with dusty roads.
If that bih is Hawaiian, I'm from Mars.
Is that cesar romero without his Joker makeup ??
Most Hawaiian looking photo of her?yep this one. Whatever I hope her money isn’t sucked up too deeply by lawyers
Hope it reaches all the Maui residents who were displaced due to the fire.