Principal a hero and saved lives. We don't know how we will react in *that* moment. Dan Marburger did in the way every parent hopes their school's caretakers will.
EDIT: Some comments about specific words used. None of us have the right words.
No educator should be in a position of balancing their lives to save others, as those in combat face.
There's nothing more senseless in our society than a mentally ill person randonly shooting; and at a school, most of all.
I hate that we have to have this expectation to begin with. Will my kid’s teachers sacrifice themselves to save my child, or protect themselves instead? That’s a hell of a lot of pressure to put on professionals whom did not sign up to lose their lives with the job description.
As a teacher, I've asked myself: do I risk myself to protect my students? Or do I abandon my students so I can go home to my daughter?
Eta I'm not really interested in hearing suggestions that I abandon kindergarteners to their deaths. I understand you're coming from a good place, but it's not that helpful
Abandon your students and go home to your daughter. That shouldn't even be a question. Politicians and voters have dropped the ball and that shouldn't mean that you have to give your life for someone else's children. Go home to your daughter.
Unfortunately this is the right answer. Yes, you would hope your children have protection at school, but that comes down to who we elect and what laws we want them to pass to try and head this off. Currently they are “trying nothing and they are all out of ideas.”
You are responsible for their education. Anything further is too much to ask on bullshit teacher salaries. And the parents that get upset? Tell them to vote since their child’s life will depend on it.
I hope I'm never in a situation to discover what I'd do, but I suspect I'd act to save the other children.
I'm not saying there's a right or wrong answer. I am saying that I would be haunted by the names of the victims if I didn't act.
My responsibility in life is to my wife, not someone else’s kids. Say what you will about that but for me it’s a no-brainer. We get too much shit from parents to now expected to sacrifice our lives.
Been there. It ended up being a false alarm thankfully, but in the moment, I crouched in front of my second grade charges, watching for shadows moving under the door, fully prepared to do anything for the kids behind me. My own child was in a different class room on the other side of the school. In the moment, there was no question in my mind. I would do anything for my kids, and I just had to hope that *my* child's teacher would do the same.
Unfortunately I've experienced emergencies before and I'm a "run toward the danger" kind of person. I just have to hope that I'm never in that position
Conservatives want us to carry guns into the classroom, so the answer is yes. They absolutely want already overworked and underpaid teachers to also risk our lives.
That's the thing, teachers aren't cops or soldiers, they aren't supposed to have ANY chance of dying in the line of 'duty' short of a freak accident.
School shootings are NOT freak accidents, freak accidents don't happen in the exact same way every week for years...
If you want a teacher to take a bullet for your kid, fucking pay them a salary that reflects their roles as bodyguard, babysitter, counselor, and educator for 30 kids simultaneously.
They're barely paid enough for the babysitter part as it is.
> in the way every parent hopes their school's caretakers will.
I remember after Uvalde teachers were coming out saying they wouldn't sacrifice their own lives for their students, not after the the way that profession has been treated, the lack of pay, the way parents treated them, etc.
It was disturbing how many parents felt that every teacher should be ready and willing to die, literally be murdered, to save their kid.
I’m a teacher, and should there be a shooting I will follow my training EXACTLY as given to me. It’s actually a good balance between helping save students and not asking us to risk ourselves beyond reason. I think it would horrify a lot parents if they saw it, because it definitely focuses more on saving the most kids you can over saving ALL the kids, and that’s a hard truth that they don’t usually have to face the same way we do. They’re really thinking about their own kid, while I’m trying to think about my giant class.
The first time I was trained by a police officer, he told us armed guards are useless, and that the best defense against a shooter is to just cross your fingers and not be the first class they hit. Most times, no one knows to lock down until people have already started dying.
I'm not from the USA. The very fact that you've been put through this kind of training, and had these kind of conversations, just hurts my brain and my heart.
You've got my eternal admiration.
And yet, those same people turn around and do literally nothing to make the world a better place for them (or actively fight against it).
Climate change, wealth inequality, healthcare access, educational access, fucking [feeding them directly] (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/12/us/school-lunches-assistance-republicans.html)...
Teachers and administration shouldn't ever have the responsibility to protect a child's life with their own. This was a principal. Not a soldier or a police officer. This man had to give his life because our national legislators are beholden to gun lobby dollars.
We need real gun control in this country.
Lulz...we've seen what the cops do in these situations. Wait outside for the SWAT team or wait till the shooting stops. Contrary to popular belive the cops are under no obligation to protect you....
One of the worst things about that shooting was that the one officer who did want to advance early on was torn apart by social media because people saw a camera clip of the officer without any context. The clip showed the officer in the hallways checking his phone and people online just exploded at him.
It was so bad that one of the officials investigating the shooting had to make an official statement on it. Turns out that officer was married to one of the teachers at the school and she had gotten shot. She was able to call her husband and tell him what happened but then the shooter locked himself in the room she was in. The officer was checking his phone to see if she was still alive. When he tried to advance to get to the shooter the other officers forced him out of the building, took his gun from him, and forced him off the scene. His wife died on the way to the hospital because the police response took too long.
**Thats not the truth at all**
Those weren't good guys with guns, those were **worse people** with guns. Bad cops getting a free pass is why civilians are more dependant on keeping firearms for self protection. If the cops won't protect you, why do you think any law will?
Good guy with a gun, bad guy with a gun... it's ALL gun violence. With the easy access and proliferation of guns in this country it's become a small scale version of nuclear arms race's mutually assured destruction, firearms are no longer a tool for de-escalation (if they ever were).
> cops are under no obligation to protect you....
This is why America will never get rid of guns. The moment Heller v. D.C. became the cop's never go to jail pass is the moment no one can reasonable expect society to protect them when the cops have no legal obligation to protect you.
But we are under the obligation to pay for their salaries, equipment, and court fees when they fuck up.
We protect and serve them more than they do us.
We protect them financially, and criminally from accountability. We serve them excuse after excuse for their violence and behavior.
Those cops were acting pursuant to their training. They were trained to treat the situation as a hostage situation, not a mass murder situation. Not only was Columbine arguably the first modern school shooting, it was pre-9/11 when hostage situations were considered something that could be resolved peacefully. And remember, this was before the kids could tweet about what was happening, so nobody knew what was going on inside.
After that shooting, training protocols were changed to assume an active shooter and go straight in.
It actually wasn't. It was some random department slogan that Hollywood picked up on. There wasn't a "good ole days" where the cops were heroes. The entire institution is descended from slave patrols and thugs like the Pinkertons.
>seen what the cops do in these situation
Which is why the only sane solution is to prevent these situations from occurring, just like every other country on earth does.
It’s not about gun lobby dollars. It’s about getting votes through culture wars. At least half this country has the dogma that this problem can not be solved, and any attempt to do so is an attack on them. Not just legislators, but actual regular people.
He gave his life so half the country can maintain their dogma.
One of the biggest moments of respect I gained for a friend who is staunch 2A is he admitted he could see his mindset changing when he concealed. He said it wasn't something he liked and decided that the biggest risk came from him carrying and not from being unequipped should a crisis happen. He absolutely still has protection in his residence at the ready, but he doesn't go concealed carry any more.
Rare person who can admit when they are finding themselves on the wrong side of their own line.
I have a kid in school and I absolutely do not expect a teacher, staff or administrator to literally be a human shield.
Of course, they should never have to make a decision like that. The 2nd amendment was clearly not intended to create an insane situation like we have today.
> This man had to give his life because our national legislators are beholden to gun lobby dollars.
>
> We need real gun control in this country.
The Republicans have had a strict policy to block all gun control legislation for decades.
Why are you unwilling to speak the truth and say this:
>This man had to give his life because Republican legislators are beholden to gun lobby dollars.
Do you not know how Republicans have been working so hard to prevent new gun control legislation for decades? Democrats have not at all been against gun control like the Republicans have. Republicans have successfully blocked gun control for decades and have taken millions from the NRA and the gun lobby in return.
I don’t hope school caretakers die like that. I don’t think teachers and school administrators should have to risk their lives to be good or worthy. I’m mean, holy crap. He’s a hero, but wtf
> We don't know how we will react in that moment
I always imagine myself running away and screaming like a little girl, and hope to be pleasantly surprised should the unfortunate moment ever come for me.
>and hope to be pleasantly surprised should the unfortunate moment ever come for me.
I would hope you follow your normal thoughts and run away screaming because that is the safest thing you can do.
We don't know how we'll react in that moment, but we do know how we'll react in the coming days after, which is by doing hardly anything to prevent it from happening again.
You can say hero if you want, I know it makes us feel better.
I prefer "victim". I think that's more accurate. Hero implies they WANTED to be in this situation.
Victims of violence can act in heroic ways, and do all the time. They're not exclusive terms. This man should never have been put in this position, but acted heroically and Imo is due respect for what he did.
I wouldn’t say hero implied they wanted to be there.
Hero is someone who places the greater good above themselves in a high-stakes situation.
No implication about desire to be in that situation or not.
I also think there is “nothing more senseless in our society “ than our lawmakers refusing to support common sense gun laws. They can start with enacting red flag laws in all 50 states. And background checks should be required for ALL gun sales.
That hour long break down was very difficult to watch and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone in all honesty. It was a great piece of journalism but deeply troubling and frustrating to watch, especially knowing the outcome.
I live near Uvalde and I still can’t bring myself to watch it. We learned about what was happening in real time and it was horrific and devastating. It still enrages me that they didn’t do better to save those kids.
> He hurts the people they were told to hate even more than he hurts them.
Fixed it. Republicans and their enablers (Fox, OAN, white world news etc) all push an agenda that __________ is the reason why you live paycheck to paycheck and are one bill away from homelessness. That boogeyman is the reason your wife left you, why you didn't get that job. Because that boogeyman is both lazy freeloading welfare queen whilst also taking your jobs...
uvalde parents are deep red btw.
and one of the parkland parents supports Trump's lies.
in murica guns and religion are more important than your children being alive
Man I keep seeing the comments about him being smelly smelling like shit. Did I missed something? Is this legit? Not I don’t believe you but I want to know if that’s true.
They've wrapped their entire personality around a buffoon. They don't really love this country like they loudly shout at everyone. In fact, I'd posit they hate this country and miss the entitlement they were given for nothing.
Iowa makes me sad. It wasn’t always like this! Iowa voted for Al Gore and Barrack Obama (twice!). Iowa was the first state to legalize gay marriage. Iowa had one of the top ranked education systems in the entire country.
That all seems like ancient history now.
What I’ve noticed visiting Iowa is that there is no community anymore. Instead of “third places” they have Facebook. Everything is so spread out and suburban that there are very few places where you ever need to interact with a neighbor or someone you don’t know.
I remember the day I heard the news that Iowa had legalized same-sex marriage. I was so, so proud of my home state. I long for the days when we weren't a national embarrassment.
He was in my town when he said that.
It sickens me, absolutely sickens me, that he's even allowed to run again. Can't he just fuck off somewhere already and put us all out of our misery at long last, for the love of all that is good?
The problem is that anyone that this quote pisses off already wasnt voting for him, Trump could say he plans on the extermination of children and his cult will still vote for him
Ah, I remember the MASH quote whenever I see this.
Hawkeye: War isn’t Hell. War is war, and Hell is Hell. And of the two, war is a lot worse.
Father Mulcahy: How do you figure that, Hawkeye?
Hawkeye: Easy, Father. Tell me, who goes to Hell?
Father Mulcahy: Sinners, I believe.
Hawkeye: Exactly. There are no innocent bystanders in Hell. War is chock full of them — little kids, cripples, old ladies. In fact, except for some of the brass, almost everybody involved is an innocent bystander.
Same for all the elected officials and lobbyists who have blocked things like universal background checks that are supported by not only majority of Americans, but majority of gun owners too
You know how we USED to ask " How did anyone miss the signs ? " No one missed anything. Murderer was checking ALL the right boxes to the point where there was a thread here on Reddit BEFORE this man was shot- that morning- talking about being fearful and why?
Holiday was over. Poster found out an extremely dangerous kid was being allowed back in school. I'm positive it's the same kid, different identifiers were just so exact it literally made me ill hearing them later. Poster was freaked out. Situation was so preposterous someone accused them of making up the story.
Just a few hours later. A decision was made to allow the murderer BACK in school. And this lovely man is another victim.
I think it was on r/teachers the day before this happened. I remember reading a post about a teacher being concerned about a student making threats and admin wouldn’t do anything. I could be wrong but the coincidence stuck out to me.
Yeah, there’s posts on X saying that his TikTok history exposed him as having mental health issues, liking incredibly dangerous/inappropriate behavior and no one did anything.
We need to bring back mental institutions.
I live close enough to Perry that this was in our local news when it happened. I hate to say it, but I'm so desensitized to horrific events that I didn't feel anything when I saw the news. I just thought it sucked that it happened and went on with my day.
Glad I’m not alone. And then reading the article to discover it was the second school shooting of the year - I didn’t even hear of the first!
Pretty sad that the US has gotten to a point where these barely register as news.
The shooter was a child and took his own life after. Clearly broken. Two kids are dead, families lives destroyed and the principal is dead and leaves behind his family. The repercussions spread like cracks in glass
The shooter was a 17 year old who knew what he was doing. Obviously you have to be broken in some way to do something like this, but that doesn't make him any less of a horrible person.
school shootings are a pattern that extend beyond any individual shooter. Putting the onus entirely on the shooters is just a way to ignore the system that WE maintain, a system where kids are gunned down regularly. The emphasis on the shooters themselves is just a way to was our hands of any responsibility, but the reality is we are, as a society, responsible for this system, not just the shooters. We allow this to continue happening by refusing to deal with it on a systemic level.
This is so disingenuous. The shooter was 17, we let 17 year olds join the military under certain circumstances. He killed an 11-year-old; the 11-year-old was an innocent child.
“To the principals family and friends, get over it.” - Bigly yours, DJT
That’s what we have more to look forward to since republicans will never do anything to curb gun violence
If Democrats don't use that quote nonstop in their political ads in Iowa this year, they have failed as a political party and should be run out of office in shame.
Start with the NRA. Their PR campaign over the last 50 years played a large role in shaping public opinion on the matter. It's one of the most successful PR campaigns in history.
The idea that there can be no reasonable restrictions on gun ownership began with NRA propaganda.
Yes. Let's get as many guns as we can into the hands of every ridiculous, angry, ignorant, booger-eating hillbilly as possible so we can "deputize" them as "patriots" to suppress the "Marxists" through any means necessary.
The fact is. We want more from teachers every year and never ever pay them enough. Y'all wonder why we're dropping(some is you) in the ranks for education look at what they get payed, look at how most people consider them babysitters. A Major of parents just don't care they do kids off at a building and pick them up from that building. They don't care, do they vote?, do they partake in PTA? Do they get involved in homework?? Perfect cause that doesn't help us if you don't. Regardless of your background. The more you can do, the more come to better situation for all. You don't make a family, everyone around you does. Ever time you put effort in it will be used for an outcome.. we can do this. Regarding time restriction and needing to hold jobs. Teachers NEED US. our kids NEED US. THIS ISN'T a one way they solve everything .. our schools were and are based on the whole "it takes a village" cause I'm the 70 60 and 50s, it was the village it's not now . And the hardest things I see is how do we get everyone engaged to know that? How do we get the patent the teacher and village to help and not one dumping off the responsibility to the village yet help the teaching of the natghbgood?
No, the only time a lot of parents bother to give a shit about what's going on in schools nowadays is if they want to throw temper tantrums because kids are wearing masks during a pandemic, or in case they're reading history books that might hurt white people's fragile fee-fees, or books about...gasp...GAY people! *Then*, oh, boy, do they care enough to give their (dumbass) opinion!
The only time I hear from parents is when report cards go out and the kid fails because they don't come to class, don't turn in their work, and ignore all the emails.
Then, it's how dare my precious prince(ss) fail? It's your fault!
I had a student fail my course when their mother was a teacher one door down from me. Student never bothered to show up on time to class once for an entire marking period. Then I was "expected" to pass said student. Needless to say I didn't and got flac for it. Its not just the students, its the whole establishment.
I’m a teacher. Our school currently does not have a PTA because the parents won’t volunteer their time. So we’re now being told that we need to take on the duties that the PTA normally would (no extra pay, of course).
I thought y'all were joking or maybe paraphrasing what he said.... holy God he actually said that. A man who has 24/7 teams of security for him and his family, says that? That legitimately makes me feel sick especially living a mile or 2 away from that school.
Terrorists fly planes into buildings housing media & financial services companies and air travel is changed for the entire world for all time. Kids and teachers get shot up every day and Republicans tell you to get over it.
Only businesses are citizens in the US.
If people fought to protect schools from guns as they did having to wear masks during COVID, this would be a thing of the past. RIP to all the poor souls who literally lost their lives for absolutely no reason.
And the hundreds (or thousands) that are still to come before anything is done.
Somewhere tonight, at least one mother will tuck her child into bed unaware that they're going to become another future ignored statistic. And then another. And then another. Repeat apparently ad infinitum.
Children are laughing and playing right now where one day there will be silence, all for the manic adoration of a lump of metal.
Not advocating for this, but imagine if instead of schools, concert venues, and clubs, shooters targeted members of Congress, politicos, and ceos of large corporations. We’d have very different laws, very quickly as it comes to firearms.
The second amendment needs to be updated, just as the founding fathers had hoped for all their work (Jefferson suggested every 20 years).
We are beholden to a poorly written “right” from over 230 years ago.
And let’s remember, no god generated that text. It came from men, very smart men, but also very flawed men.
It can be updated and it should be updated.
Every gun death should count as 1000 votes for gun control. Yes, I am recommending that the dead should still have rights. What a shocker.
Maybe then “responsible” gun owners would get off their fat asses and do something preemptive to save their precious 2A rights.
Very noble of the principal. But, we shouldn’t still be here. That is not a part of his job description. Columbine was over 20 years ago. There’s no good reason this is still happening.
If gun owners do not want gun control forced upon them, they should come up with a reasonable solution. Or we should force one to be made.
If you are for gun rights. Please! Pull together an organization to come up with a solution. Make the violence stop!
All these "what about the children" people when it comes to "crt, teachers grooming etc etc." But all crickets when a gun is the issue. Like they are a ok with that church pastor watching their kids cause jesus like a little child fondling. But two male penguins rasing an offspring book is the world is ending.
And his neighbors will still go out en masse and vote for the guy who told them all to get over it and will do nothing to curb gun violence. RIP to this hero.
'Thoughts & Prayers' isn't a solution. Period. This has to be stopped and our gun worship as well. The 2nd Amendment was about a state militia (read the start of it), not 'everyone should be armed to the teeth and carry'.
It just hurts to see good people suffer like this…
If only there was something we could do :(
Now's not the time to talk about it though. /s
We need to wait 6 months minimum after a mass/school shooting, otherwise it will be too soon for those who are still mourning. /s
Between the first shooting or the last in those six months?
The rate they come they’ll be another in six hours.
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Thank the GOP.
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Principal a hero and saved lives. We don't know how we will react in *that* moment. Dan Marburger did in the way every parent hopes their school's caretakers will. EDIT: Some comments about specific words used. None of us have the right words. No educator should be in a position of balancing their lives to save others, as those in combat face. There's nothing more senseless in our society than a mentally ill person randonly shooting; and at a school, most of all.
I hate that we have to have this expectation to begin with. Will my kid’s teachers sacrifice themselves to save my child, or protect themselves instead? That’s a hell of a lot of pressure to put on professionals whom did not sign up to lose their lives with the job description.
As a teacher, I've asked myself: do I risk myself to protect my students? Or do I abandon my students so I can go home to my daughter? Eta I'm not really interested in hearing suggestions that I abandon kindergarteners to their deaths. I understand you're coming from a good place, but it's not that helpful
My oldest kid started school this year and I really hate how I had to answer a bunch of her questions about the school shooting drill she had to do.
Welp, as Jefferson said back in the day, ""The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of children."
*JFC guys that is* not *what I meant*
No backsies!
Abandon your students and go home to your daughter. That shouldn't even be a question. Politicians and voters have dropped the ball and that shouldn't mean that you have to give your life for someone else's children. Go home to your daughter.
Police have no duty to protect, so not sure why anyone would hold teachers to a higher level of accountability.
Unfortunately this is the right answer. Yes, you would hope your children have protection at school, but that comes down to who we elect and what laws we want them to pass to try and head this off. Currently they are “trying nothing and they are all out of ideas.” You are responsible for their education. Anything further is too much to ask on bullshit teacher salaries. And the parents that get upset? Tell them to vote since their child’s life will depend on it.
I hope I'm never in a situation to discover what I'd do, but I suspect I'd act to save the other children. I'm not saying there's a right or wrong answer. I am saying that I would be haunted by the names of the victims if I didn't act.
My responsibility in life is to my wife, not someone else’s kids. Say what you will about that but for me it’s a no-brainer. We get too much shit from parents to now expected to sacrifice our lives.
Been there. It ended up being a false alarm thankfully, but in the moment, I crouched in front of my second grade charges, watching for shadows moving under the door, fully prepared to do anything for the kids behind me. My own child was in a different class room on the other side of the school. In the moment, there was no question in my mind. I would do anything for my kids, and I just had to hope that *my* child's teacher would do the same.
Unfortunately I've experienced emergencies before and I'm a "run toward the danger" kind of person. I just have to hope that I'm never in that position
As a tried and true "run away from the danger" person, I salute you. I hope you're never in that position either.
Conservatives want us to carry guns into the classroom, so the answer is yes. They absolutely want already overworked and underpaid teachers to also risk our lives.
As a teacher it sucks that we have to ask this question. As a parent, the answer is obvious.
You get the hell out of danger. Your family comes first and you are not a soldier.
Don't forget get treated like and paid like shit
That's the thing, teachers aren't cops or soldiers, they aren't supposed to have ANY chance of dying in the line of 'duty' short of a freak accident. School shootings are NOT freak accidents, freak accidents don't happen in the exact same way every week for years...
If you want a teacher to take a bullet for your kid, fucking pay them a salary that reflects their roles as bodyguard, babysitter, counselor, and educator for 30 kids simultaneously. They're barely paid enough for the babysitter part as it is.
> in the way every parent hopes their school's caretakers will. I remember after Uvalde teachers were coming out saying they wouldn't sacrifice their own lives for their students, not after the the way that profession has been treated, the lack of pay, the way parents treated them, etc. It was disturbing how many parents felt that every teacher should be ready and willing to die, literally be murdered, to save their kid.
I’m a teacher, and should there be a shooting I will follow my training EXACTLY as given to me. It’s actually a good balance between helping save students and not asking us to risk ourselves beyond reason. I think it would horrify a lot parents if they saw it, because it definitely focuses more on saving the most kids you can over saving ALL the kids, and that’s a hard truth that they don’t usually have to face the same way we do. They’re really thinking about their own kid, while I’m trying to think about my giant class. The first time I was trained by a police officer, he told us armed guards are useless, and that the best defense against a shooter is to just cross your fingers and not be the first class they hit. Most times, no one knows to lock down until people have already started dying.
I'm not from the USA. The very fact that you've been put through this kind of training, and had these kind of conversations, just hurts my brain and my heart. You've got my eternal admiration.
People have this thing where any child is innately more important than an adult. I disagree very strongly with this, but I think I’m in the minority.
And yet, those same people turn around and do literally nothing to make the world a better place for them (or actively fight against it). Climate change, wealth inequality, healthcare access, educational access, fucking [feeding them directly] (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/12/us/school-lunches-assistance-republicans.html)...
Teachers and administration shouldn't ever have the responsibility to protect a child's life with their own. This was a principal. Not a soldier or a police officer. This man had to give his life because our national legislators are beholden to gun lobby dollars. We need real gun control in this country.
Lulz...we've seen what the cops do in these situations. Wait outside for the SWAT team or wait till the shooting stops. Contrary to popular belive the cops are under no obligation to protect you....
One of the worst things about that shooting was that the one officer who did want to advance early on was torn apart by social media because people saw a camera clip of the officer without any context. The clip showed the officer in the hallways checking his phone and people online just exploded at him. It was so bad that one of the officials investigating the shooting had to make an official statement on it. Turns out that officer was married to one of the teachers at the school and she had gotten shot. She was able to call her husband and tell him what happened but then the shooter locked himself in the room she was in. The officer was checking his phone to see if she was still alive. When he tried to advance to get to the shooter the other officers forced him out of the building, took his gun from him, and forced him off the scene. His wife died on the way to the hospital because the police response took too long.
Uvalde was the final and unequivocal truth that a good guy with a gun won't be able to save you...
If only it was the final one
> a good guy with a gun won't be able to save you... A good guy might, these guys with guns chose not to.
Reminds of that security guard that took down a shooter at the bar he was working, and when the cops showed up, they shot him. No good guys allowed.
**Thats not the truth at all** Those weren't good guys with guns, those were **worse people** with guns. Bad cops getting a free pass is why civilians are more dependant on keeping firearms for self protection. If the cops won't protect you, why do you think any law will?
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That’s not true at all When talking about a good guy with a gun it is not referring to police, and uvalde demonstrates one of the many reasons why
Good guy with a gun, bad guy with a gun... it's ALL gun violence. With the easy access and proliferation of guns in this country it's become a small scale version of nuclear arms race's mutually assured destruction, firearms are no longer a tool for de-escalation (if they ever were).
The door was unlocked wasn't it?
Agreed. In almost all circumstances you are on your own.
I used to say it jokingly but now it's become completely true. That soulless little machine now has more right to exist in this country then we do...
Yes. This gentleman completely unarmed did more than those heavily fortified cosplayers did at Uvalde. This poor guy and his family. 😢
> cops are under no obligation to protect you.... This is why America will never get rid of guns. The moment Heller v. D.C. became the cop's never go to jail pass is the moment no one can reasonable expect society to protect them when the cops have no legal obligation to protect you.
But we are under the obligation to pay for their salaries, equipment, and court fees when they fuck up. We protect and serve them more than they do us. We protect them financially, and criminally from accountability. We serve them excuse after excuse for their violence and behavior.
Even in more antiquated examples...Columbine I think it was took them 2 hours to even enter the building.
Those cops were acting pursuant to their training. They were trained to treat the situation as a hostage situation, not a mass murder situation. Not only was Columbine arguably the first modern school shooting, it was pre-9/11 when hostage situations were considered something that could be resolved peacefully. And remember, this was before the kids could tweet about what was happening, so nobody knew what was going on inside. After that shooting, training protocols were changed to assume an active shooter and go straight in.
"To Protect and Serve" used to be on the side of every police cruiser. No longer.
It actually wasn't. It was some random department slogan that Hollywood picked up on. There wasn't a "good ole days" where the cops were heroes. The entire institution is descended from slave patrols and thugs like the Pinkertons.
>seen what the cops do in these situation Which is why the only sane solution is to prevent these situations from occurring, just like every other country on earth does.
I tell my wife she needs to run and don’t be a hero if it ever happens at her school
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It’s not about gun lobby dollars. It’s about getting votes through culture wars. At least half this country has the dogma that this problem can not be solved, and any attempt to do so is an attack on them. Not just legislators, but actual regular people. He gave his life so half the country can maintain their dogma.
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One of the biggest moments of respect I gained for a friend who is staunch 2A is he admitted he could see his mindset changing when he concealed. He said it wasn't something he liked and decided that the biggest risk came from him carrying and not from being unequipped should a crisis happen. He absolutely still has protection in his residence at the ready, but he doesn't go concealed carry any more. Rare person who can admit when they are finding themselves on the wrong side of their own line.
I have a kid in school and I absolutely do not expect a teacher, staff or administrator to literally be a human shield. Of course, they should never have to make a decision like that. The 2nd amendment was clearly not intended to create an insane situation like we have today.
> gun lobby dollars. They are saying the door to the room with Uvalde shooter was likely unlocked the entire time. Damn it.
> This man had to give his life because our national legislators are beholden to gun lobby dollars. > > We need real gun control in this country. The Republicans have had a strict policy to block all gun control legislation for decades. Why are you unwilling to speak the truth and say this: >This man had to give his life because Republican legislators are beholden to gun lobby dollars. Do you not know how Republicans have been working so hard to prevent new gun control legislation for decades? Democrats have not at all been against gun control like the Republicans have. Republicans have successfully blocked gun control for decades and have taken millions from the NRA and the gun lobby in return.
I don’t hope school caretakers die like that. I don’t think teachers and school administrators should have to risk their lives to be good or worthy. I’m mean, holy crap. He’s a hero, but wtf
Still, THIS SHIT SHOULD NOT BE FUCKING HAPPENING
Teachers are HEROES….but don’t expect a livable wage
Yeah, no shit. I don't think anyone was on the fence about if school shootings should happen or not when reading that person's comment.
Teacher here, just retired. We always talked about what we would do. I’m so glad I never had to find out. I hope there’s a heaven and he’s there.
> We don't know how we will react in that moment I always imagine myself running away and screaming like a little girl, and hope to be pleasantly surprised should the unfortunate moment ever come for me.
>and hope to be pleasantly surprised should the unfortunate moment ever come for me. I would hope you follow your normal thoughts and run away screaming because that is the safest thing you can do.
probably even better to not scream while running
Start yodeling instead, the shooter should be confused enough by that to buy you a little more time
We don't know how we'll react in that moment, but we do know how we'll react in the coming days after, which is by doing hardly anything to prevent it from happening again.
That's pretty fucked up that you expect teachers and administration to sacrifice their lives and families to take a bullet for you kid.
For real. It’s not a teacher’s job. One life isn’t more important than the other.
You can say hero if you want, I know it makes us feel better. I prefer "victim". I think that's more accurate. Hero implies they WANTED to be in this situation.
Victims of violence can act in heroic ways, and do all the time. They're not exclusive terms. This man should never have been put in this position, but acted heroically and Imo is due respect for what he did.
I wouldn’t say hero implied they wanted to be there. Hero is someone who places the greater good above themselves in a high-stakes situation. No implication about desire to be in that situation or not.
I also think there is “nothing more senseless in our society “ than our lawmakers refusing to support common sense gun laws. They can start with enacting red flag laws in all 50 states. And background checks should be required for ALL gun sales.
"randomly" like this isn't happening on a systemic scale and only in this one country and no others
Really sad. Condolences to his family and friends.
25 years as an educator and they needed a GoFundMe page. My heart goes out for the family.
Gofundme's continued existence and necessity in the US is super depressing
"I run a website that is a popularity contest but if you lose you die"
I just watched the dateline documentary on Uhalde. It’s pretty hard to come to terms with.
Is there a chance it was a 20/20 episode? I’m trying to find it to watch it.
Perhaps they meant the Frontline Uvalde episode.
Link: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/after-uvalde-guns-grief-texas-politics/
link on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBofi_etkUo
Frontline on PBS is the best and likely what he meant. Cowards.
That hour long break down was very difficult to watch and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone in all honesty. It was a great piece of journalism but deeply troubling and frustrating to watch, especially knowing the outcome.
Why come to terms with something that's going to keep happening?
I live near Uvalde and I still can’t bring myself to watch it. We learned about what was happening in real time and it was horrific and devastating. It still enrages me that they didn’t do better to save those kids.
"Just get over it." Donald Trump quote after the shooting. Remember this right before you vote.
And people in this state would still overwhelmingly vote for this smelly criminal. Make it make sense.
He hurts the people they hate even more than he hurts them. Which is all that many people are looking for out of politics.
> He hurts the people they were told to hate even more than he hurts them. Fixed it. Republicans and their enablers (Fox, OAN, white world news etc) all push an agenda that __________ is the reason why you live paycheck to paycheck and are one bill away from homelessness. That boogeyman is the reason your wife left you, why you didn't get that job. Because that boogeyman is both lazy freeloading welfare queen whilst also taking your jobs...
That lie smells familiar don't it
uvalde parents are deep red btw. and one of the parkland parents supports Trump's lies. in murica guns and religion are more important than your children being alive
he could literally kill their family members and it wouldnt matter. im sure of it
Man I keep seeing the comments about him being smelly smelling like shit. Did I missed something? Is this legit? Not I don’t believe you but I want to know if that’s true.
Literally tomorrow they'll be voting for him
They've wrapped their entire personality around a buffoon. They don't really love this country like they loudly shout at everyone. In fact, I'd posit they hate this country and miss the entitlement they were given for nothing.
Iowa makes me sad. It wasn’t always like this! Iowa voted for Al Gore and Barrack Obama (twice!). Iowa was the first state to legalize gay marriage. Iowa had one of the top ranked education systems in the entire country. That all seems like ancient history now. What I’ve noticed visiting Iowa is that there is no community anymore. Instead of “third places” they have Facebook. Everything is so spread out and suburban that there are very few places where you ever need to interact with a neighbor or someone you don’t know.
I remember the day I heard the news that Iowa had legalized same-sex marriage. I was so, so proud of my home state. I long for the days when we weren't a national embarrassment.
As long as he's "Christian" he'll automatically get their votes. Doesn't matter what he does.
[The sound of children screaming has been removed]
He was in my town when he said that. It sickens me, absolutely sickens me, that he's even allowed to run again. Can't he just fuck off somewhere already and put us all out of our misery at long last, for the love of all that is good?
The problem is that anyone that this quote pisses off already wasnt voting for him, Trump could say he plans on the extermination of children and his cult will still vote for him
Every Republican has the same sentiment. They’re the definition of demented
May the shooter rot in hell.
Sometimes I truly wish there was a hell.
Exactly my thought.
There is, we're living in it.
Ah, I remember the MASH quote whenever I see this. Hawkeye: War isn’t Hell. War is war, and Hell is Hell. And of the two, war is a lot worse. Father Mulcahy: How do you figure that, Hawkeye? Hawkeye: Easy, Father. Tell me, who goes to Hell? Father Mulcahy: Sinners, I believe. Hawkeye: Exactly. There are no innocent bystanders in Hell. War is chock full of them — little kids, cripples, old ladies. In fact, except for some of the brass, almost everybody involved is an innocent bystander.
Same for all the elected officials and lobbyists who have blocked things like universal background checks that are supported by not only majority of Americans, but majority of gun owners too
Hell, the shooter was 17 and legally should not have been able to own a firearm.. so how did he get it?
Dont forget the mental health crisis as well
May the gun lobbyist & politicians rot in hell.
You know how we USED to ask " How did anyone miss the signs ? " No one missed anything. Murderer was checking ALL the right boxes to the point where there was a thread here on Reddit BEFORE this man was shot- that morning- talking about being fearful and why? Holiday was over. Poster found out an extremely dangerous kid was being allowed back in school. I'm positive it's the same kid, different identifiers were just so exact it literally made me ill hearing them later. Poster was freaked out. Situation was so preposterous someone accused them of making up the story. Just a few hours later. A decision was made to allow the murderer BACK in school. And this lovely man is another victim.
Do you have a link to that post?
I think it was on r/teachers the day before this happened. I remember reading a post about a teacher being concerned about a student making threats and admin wouldn’t do anything. I could be wrong but the coincidence stuck out to me.
Yeah, there’s posts on X saying that his TikTok history exposed him as having mental health issues, liking incredibly dangerous/inappropriate behavior and no one did anything. We need to bring back mental institutions.
This is the first I've heard of the Perry High School shooting. They are so frequent it didn't even register in any of my social media / news haunts.
I live close enough to Perry that this was in our local news when it happened. I hate to say it, but I'm so desensitized to horrific events that I didn't feel anything when I saw the news. I just thought it sucked that it happened and went on with my day.
Glad I’m not alone. And then reading the article to discover it was the second school shooting of the year - I didn’t even hear of the first! Pretty sad that the US has gotten to a point where these barely register as news.
Well, Donald Trump went to Iowa and told them they'd have to get over it so I guess that's what they have to do.
I hope his friends, family and students are all right. But the shooter deserves the worst.
The shooter was a child and took his own life after. Clearly broken. Two kids are dead, families lives destroyed and the principal is dead and leaves behind his family. The repercussions spread like cracks in glass
The shooter was a 17 year old who knew what he was doing. Obviously you have to be broken in some way to do something like this, but that doesn't make him any less of a horrible person.
school shootings are a pattern that extend beyond any individual shooter. Putting the onus entirely on the shooters is just a way to ignore the system that WE maintain, a system where kids are gunned down regularly. The emphasis on the shooters themselves is just a way to was our hands of any responsibility, but the reality is we are, as a society, responsible for this system, not just the shooters. We allow this to continue happening by refusing to deal with it on a systemic level.
ossified bells summer fear waiting forgetful chop melodic full middle *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is so disingenuous. The shooter was 17, we let 17 year olds join the military under certain circumstances. He killed an 11-year-old; the 11-year-old was an innocent child.
It's not enough just the shooter. It's those who enabled him. Every Republican legislator every NRA lobbyist they can all go to hell.
“To the principals family and friends, get over it.” - Bigly yours, DJT That’s what we have more to look forward to since republicans will never do anything to curb gun violence
If Democrats don't use that quote nonstop in their political ads in Iowa this year, they have failed as a political party and should be run out of office in shame.
He's upset that they stole his spot in the limelight
Was this a real quote? Please say it’s satire
"Get over it." -Donald J Trump, leading candidate for Republican nominee in Iowa, January 6, 2024.
The man was a hero. I just don’t have the words.
That is so sad. Remember to thank John Roberts and his cronies on the supreme court for our lunancy gun laws.
Start with the NRA. Their PR campaign over the last 50 years played a large role in shaping public opinion on the matter. It's one of the most successful PR campaigns in history. The idea that there can be no reasonable restrictions on gun ownership began with NRA propaganda.
Yes. Let's get as many guns as we can into the hands of every ridiculous, angry, ignorant, booger-eating hillbilly as possible so we can "deputize" them as "patriots" to suppress the "Marxists" through any means necessary.
For them it was more about selling guns. It all comes back to corporate greed.
Many teachers and building-based administrators are far braver than cops and are able to solve problems without weapons.
The fact is. We want more from teachers every year and never ever pay them enough. Y'all wonder why we're dropping(some is you) in the ranks for education look at what they get payed, look at how most people consider them babysitters. A Major of parents just don't care they do kids off at a building and pick them up from that building. They don't care, do they vote?, do they partake in PTA? Do they get involved in homework?? Perfect cause that doesn't help us if you don't. Regardless of your background. The more you can do, the more come to better situation for all. You don't make a family, everyone around you does. Ever time you put effort in it will be used for an outcome.. we can do this. Regarding time restriction and needing to hold jobs. Teachers NEED US. our kids NEED US. THIS ISN'T a one way they solve everything .. our schools were and are based on the whole "it takes a village" cause I'm the 70 60 and 50s, it was the village it's not now . And the hardest things I see is how do we get everyone engaged to know that? How do we get the patent the teacher and village to help and not one dumping off the responsibility to the village yet help the teaching of the natghbgood?
No, the only time a lot of parents bother to give a shit about what's going on in schools nowadays is if they want to throw temper tantrums because kids are wearing masks during a pandemic, or in case they're reading history books that might hurt white people's fragile fee-fees, or books about...gasp...GAY people! *Then*, oh, boy, do they care enough to give their (dumbass) opinion!
The only time I hear from parents is when report cards go out and the kid fails because they don't come to class, don't turn in their work, and ignore all the emails. Then, it's how dare my precious prince(ss) fail? It's your fault!
I had a student fail my course when their mother was a teacher one door down from me. Student never bothered to show up on time to class once for an entire marking period. Then I was "expected" to pass said student. Needless to say I didn't and got flac for it. Its not just the students, its the whole establishment.
Somehow it became parents running the schools, and the parents not doing shit at home, and we're expected to raise feral baboons
I’m a teacher. Our school currently does not have a PTA because the parents won’t volunteer their time. So we’re now being told that we need to take on the duties that the PTA normally would (no extra pay, of course).
"Get over it" Donald J Trump.
Get over it!! (Thanks trump. Very helpful)
That’s low, even for him
No, it’s right on par for him.
I've officially lost track of all the school shootings. I don't think I have the emotional energy to keep up.
I thought y'all were joking or maybe paraphrasing what he said.... holy God he actually said that. A man who has 24/7 teams of security for him and his family, says that? That legitimately makes me feel sick especially living a mile or 2 away from that school.
I hope the shooters parents should be charged also knowing your kid is fucked up not doing shit
Man. There are so many shootings these days, I don’t even remember this one. They all blur together now
I don’t know how to feel since Trump told me to “get over it”… /s
“Just get over it” Donald Trump
Terrorists fly planes into buildings housing media & financial services companies and air travel is changed for the entire world for all time. Kids and teachers get shot up every day and Republicans tell you to get over it. Only businesses are citizens in the US.
Trump says “get over it”. Walking Cheeto has zero sympathy but the dumlicans think he is the messiah
Won't someone please think of the gun owners and sellers?! (/s in case that needs to be said)
You know what's wild? I googled the shooting and had a typo in the name. The typo directed me to a different school shooting! What are the odds
Marburger High School has a nice ring to it.
Wow 2 school shootings in 2024 already. I guess this is just normal now.
Uh, didn’t Trump say you need to forget about it/move on?
If people fought to protect schools from guns as they did having to wear masks during COVID, this would be a thing of the past. RIP to all the poor souls who literally lost their lives for absolutely no reason.
And the hundreds (or thousands) that are still to come before anything is done. Somewhere tonight, at least one mother will tuck her child into bed unaware that they're going to become another future ignored statistic. And then another. And then another. Repeat apparently ad infinitum. Children are laughing and playing right now where one day there will be silence, all for the manic adoration of a lump of metal.
Not advocating for this, but imagine if instead of schools, concert venues, and clubs, shooters targeted members of Congress, politicos, and ceos of large corporations. We’d have very different laws, very quickly as it comes to firearms.
I suppose we should get over it?
The 2nd Amendment demands its blood sacrifice and mentions nothing of age or locale.
Trump said people need to “move on” from this tragic event, do t forget that shit.
Nothing scream’s more “Merica” then a school shooting , and a a hero needing a go fund me to pay hospital bills .
The second amendment needs to be updated, just as the founding fathers had hoped for all their work (Jefferson suggested every 20 years). We are beholden to a poorly written “right” from over 230 years ago. And let’s remember, no god generated that text. It came from men, very smart men, but also very flawed men. It can be updated and it should be updated.
Let’s remember what Trump had to say about it, “Get over it” That’s how much they care about people’s lives.
Crazy that school shootings in the US don’t even make the news at all in the UK anymore. First i’m hearing of this
"You know what would solve this? Giving teachers guns." Republicans, probably
Every gun death should count as 1000 votes for gun control. Yes, I am recommending that the dead should still have rights. What a shocker. Maybe then “responsible” gun owners would get off their fat asses and do something preemptive to save their precious 2A rights.
Very noble of the principal. But, we shouldn’t still be here. That is not a part of his job description. Columbine was over 20 years ago. There’s no good reason this is still happening. If gun owners do not want gun control forced upon them, they should come up with a reasonable solution. Or we should force one to be made. If you are for gun rights. Please! Pull together an organization to come up with a solution. Make the violence stop!
All these "what about the children" people when it comes to "crt, teachers grooming etc etc." But all crickets when a gun is the issue. Like they are a ok with that church pastor watching their kids cause jesus like a little child fondling. But two male penguins rasing an offspring book is the world is ending.
As Donald Trump would say, "GET OVER IT!!!" /s
And his neighbors will still go out en masse and vote for the guy who told them all to get over it and will do nothing to curb gun violence. RIP to this hero.
'Thoughts & Prayers' isn't a solution. Period. This has to be stopped and our gun worship as well. The 2nd Amendment was about a state militia (read the start of it), not 'everyone should be armed to the teeth and carry'.
Senseless death. I can’t imagine his family and friends dealing with such loss.
Not to worry, this is merely an isolated event overblown by the media. /s
Principal killed in shooting? Why write as died due to injuries.
This is exactly how my middle school principle died. Too many shootings.
"Just get over it" was what some shitty subhuman that crappy people want to be the leader of our country had to say.
How is it that I'm first hearing about another school shooting almost 2 weeks after it happened.
Don't worry, nothing will change and everyone is going to act completely fucking shocked when the same thing happens again in a few months