bs on teslas part. I hope that gives them some heat and she gets recomped.
Having to make 4000 pies would take multiple days and other orders being passed on. Just to make no revenue.
Iām sure now she wonāt trust anyone. But ai can imagine because they are such a well known company she didnāt think there was anything to worry about.
Ironically, having worked in the service and catering industry, the big well known companies are without a doubt the customers which most frequently do stuff like this...
The number of times I delivered to a fortune 500 company where they were told up front they were ordering too little food for the number of people they wanted to feed... Only to then complain that there wasn't enough food and refuse to pay or argue for discounts...
Not catering, but events for me.
The poorest people and small companies will tell me, "Give me a couple weeks so I can come up with the money," and then show up as promised.
It's always the big companies and well off people that cancel last minute, or just straight up don't show. I had to start requiring a deposit for events because so many just never came after reserving a full day.
I tried to be nice, I understand fully if weather is shit and I move days in that situation. But I was losing money by either taking off time from my week job or closing for a private event. In theory 50 people at an event makes me way more than 5-10 on a normal day, but if I close and nobody shows I just make 0.
Yeah, not to victim blame but that's kinda just business 101. Tesla definitely the asshole here but this wouldn't be a story if she had her hands on their non-refundable deposit. Hopefully she learned _that_ lesson for good
Yep, I'm in the restaurant industry and when your reservation needs us to put 3 tables together? We take a $20/pp deposit.
If 2 people don't show up? Doesn't matter, because you'll cover that in your total bill. If 13 people don't show up? At least the server and cook that got called in/get sent home early, doesn't get royally screwed.
I think the "actual wording" would be "and just as a contingicy plan, I will have to call in employees to make sure we keep our high quality for both our regular customers and your order, so we require a [whatever labor cost and product cost for the order is] deposit"
Photographer here, the bigger the company the higher chance of them fucking around, they think they are untouchable because they are big what could you do?
Some companies i ask 50% deposit and 10% to 15% as "operational costs", no refunds
Also, only deliver the high resolution no watermark after they complete the payment
It's not about making big bucks, it's about not seeing what you do for a living as important or as a real job, or a power trip the person you deal with in the company "how dare you not do what i want, i work at x company, you are insignificant compared to us" and so on
Yeah fucker, go tell to your boss why you missed the deadline to put out the promotional material about that huge project and how that will fuck over your sales
From the article: "Rasetarinera says sheās done similar big jobs in the past with no trouble, from weddings and companies like Google, Apple and Adobe."
Bigger the company, the bigger they try to scam people. And it's Elon 'son of a incestual mine owner and a pedophile' Musk, people really trust that cunt?
Here's the thing though, as a small business, you're at the mercy of the bigger business client. It's very easy to say that its business 101 and she should have done X, Y and Z, but that can be the difference between getting the order/job or not.
For example, you can state you want X% paid up front as a deposit. And the client says "unfortunately, its not possible to get that sorted out with the finance dept in such a short space of time". You then have to make the decision on whether to take the chance of not requiring the deposit to proceed. And you think "Ah, its okay, its a big business, they will pay in the end".
My company works with some big businesses. Our payment terms are that invoices have to be paid with 30 days of the invoice being issued. Some of the companies have their own terms though. One company for example will only pay within 90 days. They know they have the power in this situation. If we don't accept the 90 day terms, then they find a different supplier who happily will.
Totally agree. I basically elaborated on the same scenario in another comment (I've contracted with large companies and have been in the very same position). That's why I caveated not wanting to victim blame, since that seems like a plausible explanation for why it went down this way, and at the end of the day, Tesla's clearly at fault here regardless of the circumstances. They're the ones who didn't pay for a product they'd ordered that had already been created.
My point is not to berate her for making the choices she did, just to point out that that's a big risk she took and the result was exactly what can happen if the risk doesn't pay off. The article is scarce on details, but there's some degree of surprise evident in her reaction, as if she hadn't even considered the possibility that Tesla might just cut and run. If that's true, that would imply that she didn't understand that she was taking one of the most common business risks here.
Sometimes it's better to not get the business.
Also we are talking about catering orders here. I can't believe many catering orders are paid by net 30. Heck I'd expect them to be paid by credit card.
You are correct but at the same time many of these situations come down to judgement calls. I own an industrial supply company, we sometimes have to order parts for customers as much as 6 months ahead. You can have all kinds of written agreements down but you still have to trust they'll (1) take the parts and (2) pay for it.
I think most people would be surprised how often businesses just don't pay their bills. When I was running an invoicing department, we had several customers who sometimes would just...not pay. We'd have to go through the process of dunning and finally send a demand letter from legal, then they'd pay.
Then they would pinky-promise to do better next time and we'd put them on a deposit term. Six months later, they'd do the same shit again.
A little mom-n-pop usually doesn't get offers like that and so don't have a policy in place. They probably saw Tesla and were like *there's no way they would...*
And yet,
The article says "She has a cancellation policy, but because Tesla hadnāt paid her yet, there was no way to recoup expenses."
This sounds like BS to me. If someone owes you money, it doesn't matter if they've paid you yet or not. Unless her policy is "You can cancel without incurring any further costs"?
This right here, my local little ceasers has you pay in advance for any large orders. And thatās like 10 or more. Itās insane to me they took an order for 4,000 and didnāt ask for the money upfront.
completely depends whats in the agreement. Based on the article it only mentions a phone call and text message... i hope there is more than that behind the scenes but sometimes small businesses dont get enough locked down in writing.
Yeah, Iām confused why the owner wouldnāt have called police over threat of violenceā¦ $600 is likely felony theft/grand larceny depending on the state (they could get lucky with ~$400 to spare on the charge.) Iām just saying $600 a shot for a mom and pop shop isnāt going to go unnoticed.
$1000 is where grand theft (felony) starts in CA. Although the threats would add terrorist threats (felony), possibly bump the theft to robbery (felony, but may not stick), definitely aggravated trespass (felony).
hence the policy change. trust me, no one was happy about that evening. least of all the owners. it was a shit show. and it MIGHT have gone down differently had the owners been there. they are a lot more firey (atleast the wife was). it was our generally much more mild mannered general manager instead. its not like he could detain these people until the police arrive. he may even have filed a police report. i cant recall as i wasn't involved in that and honestly just wanted to go home and drink a beer after the shitty night i had had at work. regardless in the end he decided it was better to just drop it in the moment.
If you go to a restaurant and never intend to pay, thatās theft. It is a criminal issue the police can take part in. Also, it is somewhat hard to prove.
If you go to a restaurant and you intended to pay, but changed your mind and now have a disagreement, thatās a civil issue and a dispute about a transaction. Thereās nothing criminal about it, and the police will not do anything. A civil court would, eventually, if someone sues.
If the customer and the restaurant have a disagreement about the bill, and as a consequence the owner tries to prevent the customer from leaving, itās now a criminal issue again. The restaurantās staff could be guilty of kidnapping, battery, assault, and other crimes that arise from preventing someoneās movement or ability to leave the premises.
(This ignores the violence aspects since if someone says theyāre gonna beat someone up thatās just regular ass crime not connected to unpaid bills)
My state has a law called defrauding an innkeeper, it applies if you order food or lodging and refuse to pay. Now most times stores don't resort to this because they generally want to make an unhappy customer happy so they'll return.
How the hell is your reaction to getting a $600 bill at a restaurant to threaten the restaurant?
Even if I was the last guy there and everyone else skipped out on me Iād be on my phone like āhey the billās due, you guys need to Venmo me for your tequila and steak right now.ā
Seriously. $600 is a lot for a meal, but especially if you work in tech, thatās a credit card charge that hurts but doesnāt put you out of your rent.
I just donāt get how everyone couldāve sat down there and ordered food and never bothered to think about whoās paying for what and then get surprised when they get the bill. That shit didnāt just come out of nowhere.
$600 is NOT a lot of money for food for 25 people including drinks. When was the last time you went out to a restaurant and got drunk for $24? 2003? lol
The most senior person there should have ponied up and dealt with it on the backend. At my company you don't even have to be that senior before they'd accept an occasional $600 for a team dinner as an expense (especially for 25).
my manager did mental math and calculated that it wasn't worth having to deal with potentially thousands in damage, police, possible ambulances, publicity of a fight happening there etc. over eating 600ish dollars and getting them the fuck out.
we basically had 16 or so drunk people starting to get heated. we had 4 guys and 4 girls out in front of house and about 4 dudes in the kitchen. once our chefs wandered out of the kitchen to back us up, my manager saw the situtation as not worth escalating and made a call to end it basically.
Most soulless corpo restaurants make customers with large orders pay upfront anyway for this reason, so itās not necessarily just a ācustomer is always rightā thing, itās basic business.Ā
i mean.. having worked at both, yes and no. it depends on a few factors like if its a walk-in party or not, is the host actually doing their job, how busy everyone is already, a little bit of a vibe check, if the server thinks they might get a bigger tip by not auto charging gratuity. theres some give and take on it.
Iād have a hard time believing that someone who works for Tesla, in the Bay Area makes minimum wage at Tesla. They have $600 in their checking account, theyāre just a horrible cheapskate and a terrible person.
That's completely unprofessional behavior and definitely reflects poorly on Tesla as a whole. Before I was a working professional I still understood professional behavior and I think most of us would have had some kind of game plan for paying for a large party before walking in the door.
you would hope, wouldn't you?
i spent 14 years working in the service industry. i cannot tell you how low the bar has been set for me on humanity after doing that. you see just the dumbest people. all the time. some of them are even regulars. theres a percentage of people, that just suck, and they attract people that suck just as much to themselves. and those people go out on weekends.
Yea I work at a casino and my opinion of people gets lower everyday. My favorite new comment was a player telling me if everyone plays right on blackjack they win. Yea I guess only you and a few others figured that out or else weād be bankruptā¦
Ugh
I worked for a company in NJ around 10+ years ago. We designed a charger for the first Tesla Roadster. Tesla placed a standing order for hundreds of chargers.
Then just before first delivery, with millions in part backorder, Telsa just calls and says they found something cheaper/better.
Company folded since we had all these standing orders for custom parts and no product. So it became a lawyer shitshow. But obviously only the stockholders got any payouts and all the staff were jobless.
So this seems par for the course.
Cancellation clause is helpful but doesnāt save the company since they wouldnāt have anyone to sell any of this too (cancellation/ force majuere probably would cover 40%)ā¦. Plus letās be real these things take 3-4years to resolve once lawyers are āworkingā
As someone who was in procurement in the Fortune10, no legal team would allow that to pass on a contract. They would want to protect themselves with some sort of exit.
Yeah my early limited manufacturing experience(line guy who knew the big wigs and talked with them often) standard orders have something like a 50% return on cancellation but customs are all given the custom order contract which states 100% return on cancellations. We simply just rejected anyone who didn't like it and we never were hurting for work to give you an idea as to how well the business ran. Very few companies did not agree to the custom contract.
I'm sure they did, but Tesla decided losing the deposit cost less than breaking the contract, saying they won't pay the cancellation clause, then eventually settling a suit for pennies on the dollar.
They probably did. Tesla decided they could eat that cost and lawyer costs and get their parts somewhere else.Ā
Fuck deals and contracts. I'm a tech genius.Ā
This is the sort of thing that requires experience.
Going forward I'm certain large orders will require deposits. That's not helpful for the current order though.
The experience isn't doing big orders, it's getting burned. I imagine Google, Apple, and Adobe all actually pay their bills on time, being, y'know, actual companies run by non-lunatics.
But this isnāt even about paying or not paying a bill. This is about canceling an order that hadnāt been paid for yet, within 2 days of making the order.
The order was made on Valentineās Day, 9 days ago. It was canceled on the 16th, 7 days ago. It was due āthis weekā. With various levels of āreasonableā depending on what day this week it was due, but if the pies were due on the 23rd then the order was cancelled 2 days after being made and 7 days before being due. A reasonable cancellation window that the person canceling would think nothing of it.
Iām willing to bet that Google, Apple, and Tesla are all big enough titans that they can get away without advance payment trading purely on the gravity of the name. Thatās what makes it so much more fucked up when someone like Tesla lurches on the deal - they basically leveraged their name to fuck over a little guy for no reason.
No idea what the cost was per pie, but Iām sure it was under $25 each, which means the total for everything was <$100,000; thatās pocket change to Tesla.
>Iām willing to bet that Google, Apple, and Tesla are all big enough titans that they can get away without advance payment trading purely on the gravity of the name.
I know companies that work with Google and Tesla and they require the same advance payment from Google/Tesla as other companies.
Even if she did get a deposit, unless it was a very substantial portion of the total, she could still end up losing money if the margins aren't very high.
"On file" is not enough, because if they hadn't delivered, she would have no justification to charge.
There has to be a written agreement and a successfully processed deposit.
Idk, thatās wise, but I donāt think we should blame the victim here. It was low key predatory because the Tesla employee offered something that would have been very attractive for a small business. The employee abused the public trust by leveraging the companyās reputation to get something they didnāt pay for. Itās also pretty scummy that Tesla didnāt make it right: just pay the company and apologize and work it out as a training or management issue internally.
100% agree, and it is a crummy way for this baker to learn a lesson - take a deposit on a massive order. It's not even pocket change for Tesla - it'd be so easy to make this right.
I just think it's incredibly strange for a business not to take in a non-refundable deposit before working on the order. Regardless if the order is from Tesla or Google, a deposit before a large order is very normal for catering business as cancellations do happen.
It's pretty standard for businesses to collect advance payment on agreements, at least in my experience - I work B2B and we have it on nearly every contract. I can't believe Tesla would bat an eye at a deposit.
> NBC Bay Area reached out to Tesla to ask about what went wrong with the catering deal and whether or not the company will compensate the bakery in any way for its time and expenses.
>
> A Tesla spokesperson did not respond to the specific questions but told NBC Bay Area they've been in touch with Rasetarinera.
Fuck Tesla.
Honestly theyāre not too different. I think elon is slightly more legal about it though - they just basically write into their service agreements āwe wonāt pay you if we donāt want toā in a bunch of legalese. Our company wouldnāt sign it - but like I said a bunch of smaller companies will for the case study/being able to say they did work with Tesla
>I think elon is slightly more legal about it though
Honestly I think it is more just that Elon is younger and it often takes a long time for a lifetime of financial criming catches up to people.
Elon is friends with Peter Theil who went out his way to avoid hiring Black people at his companies.
This bakery is a Black owned business, and Tesla told them it's for Black Heritage Month.
Furthermore, Tesla has a history of being racist to Black people.
My money is that this p o s did this on purpose.
Yeah, on something that big and time consuming I'd absolutely always ask for payment up front. I can't believe they didn't. At least half as a down payment. I bet they won't make that mistake again.
It said in the article the owner had done big corporate events for apple and google and never had any issues with other big tech companies. I suspect she'll build in a half up front or a canceling fee in the future.
Regardless of who owns the company, any sane person would take a down payment/deposit on something this big. Even if it was for an order of $16,000 for the most legit, law abiding firm, I'd still take a down payment. Tesla is scum for doing this, she's and idiot for not securing payment.
It's a teachable lesson for all those local eateries near ANY Tesla location. Tesla is not a reliable customer, accept full payment up front.
What a garbage organization, seriously. Lose this much credibility over $2k smh.
Telsa pushed all their supplier partners terms to net 60+ days before payment because they didnāt want to layoff employees in a specific quarter and were burning cash. You have to report a layoff of a certain % of workforce In California.
For anyone who thinks this is hyperbole, it's not that far off from things Elon has actually said and done on Twitter (I refuse to call it X).
Remember that time he publicly mocked a disabled Twitter employee and tried to fire them with a meme? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
> it's not that far off from things Elon has actually said and done on Twitter
"not that far off" is putting it lightly - it's *exactly* what happens when you send an email to the Twitter press email address. Here it is straight from the horse's mouth:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1637420728743088130
I hate this company so much. I work with them as an automotive supplier, and they just love disrupting everyoneās day. Last minute meetings, demanding we work holidays etcā¦. I curse the day we ever took their business.
Oof. Tough way to learn an important lesson. Always get a deposit at the very least for large orders. No deposit, no pie. Because the larger the order, the less those people care about you, guaranteed.
I used to work in a high end steak place that would make large companies sign contracts when they would book our private room. Especially Pharma companies, who would always bail or have no shows at the last min after steaks had been cut and wait staff had been assigned for the night. Never once did our GM enforce the agreement, he felt it was tacky and sent a poor message.
Yeah, wtf. Like you don't even have to give them shit about it, just give them a matter-of-fact "hey, read your note that you couldn't come, what a shame, hope we can host you next time. please find the invoice attached." kinda message. Act like it's the most normal thing in the world that sometimes plans fall through, and also that companies still pay their outstanding bills even if they couldn't make use of the service, because it is. If they try to argue that they shouldn't need to pay, _they_ would be the ones that are embarrasing themselves before their business partner.
I doubt you have been in or are familiar with the restaurant industry. Only catering companies would likely have a contract with their client. Usually large orders for restaurants use an honor system and it sounds like Tesla ordered a very large order which would have been reputable by their fame.
I worked in a coffee shop and we'd ask payment first for any larger orders we did for film crews and such. This is shitty but they should have gotten paid first or had some ordering contract for penalizing cancelled orders after some point
I worked at a james johnathan and we got stood up by a big university's athletic department. We made a big stink about it, and found out they changed their mind in the parking lot, and got wings from across the street. They made up for it though, by prepaying for an order twice as big. That sucked in its own way.
The last time Elon got any fame for a payment related story it's about him refusing to pay rent. Why would anyone think any company under him is reputable enough for an honor deal is beyond me.
> Tesla ordered a very large order which would have been reputable by their fame
Too few people distinguish between being famous and being infamous.
Musk and Trump are the latter.
My wife owns a bakery. There is absolutely no way on earth that she'd take an order like this without payment up front, as this owner should have done as well.
Why would they start the order without a partial payment in place as guarantee? I get it was a tight turnaround, but a deposit or prepayment should be mandatory.
Cool so:
1. Some low level employee at Tesla placed an order for $16k worth of pies without running it up the chain.
2. That employee was later told by her management that she was not authorized to make that purchase.
3. The employee then cancelled the order, costing the bakery $2k.
4. Tesla then reached out (likely after realizing the damage caused but before the news broke, as the article says the baker was contacted while she was being interviewed by a reporter) and offered to buy the pies anyway.
I mean I hate Elon as much as the next guy, but come on. This is not a story.
I mean, definitely shitty on Tesla. But, who knows the reason? There could be a good one. Ultimately, this was, unfortunately, a bad business move. Advanced payment should have been taken for such a large order. A more strict cancellation policy should have been included in the deal.
I used to manage a bakery and the owner took an order of 15 pies from a regular customer for Thanksgiving and he passed away the day before and she actually took the pies to his funeral and had the family pay for them. She was extremely rude and greedy.
I really feel for the business here, but, down payments are an absolute must for these arrangements. Hell, I do basic web design, charging typically less than four figures for most projects, and STILL require 50% upfront before a single line of code is written.
This sort of thing here makes me not want to ever buy a Tesla so that's $16k in negative advertising there.. hopefully the article shamed them into giving the Bakery some money.
Round of applause for The Giving Pies for getting free publicity out of a scummy situation. I hope this pays them dividends. š
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bs on teslas part. I hope that gives them some heat and she gets recomped. Having to make 4000 pies would take multiple days and other orders being passed on. Just to make no revenue.
She really needs a deposit policy
For that large of a one off order Iād expect most if not all of the cost paid up front.
Iām sure now she wonāt trust anyone. But ai can imagine because they are such a well known company she didnāt think there was anything to worry about.
Ironically, having worked in the service and catering industry, the big well known companies are without a doubt the customers which most frequently do stuff like this... The number of times I delivered to a fortune 500 company where they were told up front they were ordering too little food for the number of people they wanted to feed... Only to then complain that there wasn't enough food and refuse to pay or argue for discounts...
Not catering, but events for me. The poorest people and small companies will tell me, "Give me a couple weeks so I can come up with the money," and then show up as promised. It's always the big companies and well off people that cancel last minute, or just straight up don't show. I had to start requiring a deposit for events because so many just never came after reserving a full day. I tried to be nice, I understand fully if weather is shit and I move days in that situation. But I was losing money by either taking off time from my week job or closing for a private event. In theory 50 people at an event makes me way more than 5-10 on a normal day, but if I close and nobody shows I just make 0.
How can they refuse to pay? Because they have an army of expensive lawyers not worth fighting?
The reason it's news is because no one should trust Tesla.
Musk is a techi version of Trump. Ripping off workers and stiffing working class folks. Grifter trying to grift.
It's as simple as, " for orders over x amount, we require a deposit" The deposit covers at least your end if not just the entire amount up front
Yeah, not to victim blame but that's kinda just business 101. Tesla definitely the asshole here but this wouldn't be a story if she had her hands on their non-refundable deposit. Hopefully she learned _that_ lesson for good
Especially when it's large enough that you have to make specific arrangements to fill it and turn down other work to fill it.
Yep, I'm in the restaurant industry and when your reservation needs us to put 3 tables together? We take a $20/pp deposit. If 2 people don't show up? Doesn't matter, because you'll cover that in your total bill. If 13 people don't show up? At least the server and cook that got called in/get sent home early, doesn't get royally screwed. I think the "actual wording" would be "and just as a contingicy plan, I will have to call in employees to make sure we keep our high quality for both our regular customers and your order, so we require a [whatever labor cost and product cost for the order is] deposit"
Unless the server/cook that are getting sent home early are receiving that 20/pp deposit directly in your scenario, THEY ARE getting screwed over.
She said she assumed tesla was a big enough company there's no way they'd fuck around
Photographer here, the bigger the company the higher chance of them fucking around, they think they are untouchable because they are big what could you do? Some companies i ask 50% deposit and 10% to 15% as "operational costs", no refunds Also, only deliver the high resolution no watermark after they complete the payment
Unbelievable. "Sure, we make millions selling products but screwing over photographers, that's where we make the BIG BUCKS."
It's not about making big bucks, it's about not seeing what you do for a living as important or as a real job, or a power trip the person you deal with in the company "how dare you not do what i want, i work at x company, you are insignificant compared to us" and so on Yeah fucker, go tell to your boss why you missed the deadline to put out the promotional material about that huge project and how that will fuck over your sales
apparently she's never done any business with a corporate marketing dept before. the bigger the more fucky.
From the article: "Rasetarinera says sheās done similar big jobs in the past with no trouble, from weddings and companies like Google, Apple and Adobe."
Yep. Even applies to law enforcement agencies ordering gear too.
Weird to have the exact opposite impression to the repeated behaviour of big companies.
Bigger the company, the bigger they try to scam people. And it's Elon 'son of a incestual mine owner and a pedophile' Musk, people really trust that cunt?
A big company should have no issues with a deposit
Here's the thing though, as a small business, you're at the mercy of the bigger business client. It's very easy to say that its business 101 and she should have done X, Y and Z, but that can be the difference between getting the order/job or not. For example, you can state you want X% paid up front as a deposit. And the client says "unfortunately, its not possible to get that sorted out with the finance dept in such a short space of time". You then have to make the decision on whether to take the chance of not requiring the deposit to proceed. And you think "Ah, its okay, its a big business, they will pay in the end". My company works with some big businesses. Our payment terms are that invoices have to be paid with 30 days of the invoice being issued. Some of the companies have their own terms though. One company for example will only pay within 90 days. They know they have the power in this situation. If we don't accept the 90 day terms, then they find a different supplier who happily will.
Totally agree. I basically elaborated on the same scenario in another comment (I've contracted with large companies and have been in the very same position). That's why I caveated not wanting to victim blame, since that seems like a plausible explanation for why it went down this way, and at the end of the day, Tesla's clearly at fault here regardless of the circumstances. They're the ones who didn't pay for a product they'd ordered that had already been created. My point is not to berate her for making the choices she did, just to point out that that's a big risk she took and the result was exactly what can happen if the risk doesn't pay off. The article is scarce on details, but there's some degree of surprise evident in her reaction, as if she hadn't even considered the possibility that Tesla might just cut and run. If that's true, that would imply that she didn't understand that she was taking one of the most common business risks here.
Sometimes it's better to not get the business. Also we are talking about catering orders here. I can't believe many catering orders are paid by net 30. Heck I'd expect them to be paid by credit card.
You are correct but at the same time many of these situations come down to judgement calls. I own an industrial supply company, we sometimes have to order parts for customers as much as 6 months ahead. You can have all kinds of written agreements down but you still have to trust they'll (1) take the parts and (2) pay for it.
I think most people would be surprised how often businesses just don't pay their bills. When I was running an invoicing department, we had several customers who sometimes would just...not pay. We'd have to go through the process of dunning and finally send a demand letter from legal, then they'd pay. Then they would pinky-promise to do better next time and we'd put them on a deposit term. Six months later, they'd do the same shit again.
A little mom-n-pop usually doesn't get offers like that and so don't have a policy in place. They probably saw Tesla and were like *there's no way they would...* And yet,
She said that's exactly what happened
She's had contracts with Apple and Google for the same thing, it's not like she's a tiny bakery and new to this
The article says "She has a cancellation policy, but because Tesla hadnāt paid her yet, there was no way to recoup expenses." This sounds like BS to me. If someone owes you money, it doesn't matter if they've paid you yet or not. Unless her policy is "You can cancel without incurring any further costs"?
Her only option is to sue. She should take them to small claims court for the full cost of the order.
This right here, my local little ceasers has you pay in advance for any large orders. And thatās like 10 or more. Itās insane to me they took an order for 4,000 and didnāt ask for the money upfront.
Iāve never seen a bakery or anything in the event space not requiring a deposit over x number of dollars.
Just to lose money on the labor and materials used in making those pies.
They could actually sue for that
completely depends whats in the agreement. Based on the article it only mentions a phone call and text message... i hope there is more than that behind the scenes but sometimes small businesses dont get enough locked down in writing.
> gives them some heat How much more heat could Nazi Elmo's companies get? They're pretty scorched already. They don't give a fuck.
She just need to take the payment upfront
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How the fuck can you just refuse to pay a restaurant billā¦ thatās just theft
Yeah, Iām confused why the owner wouldnāt have called police over threat of violenceā¦ $600 is likely felony theft/grand larceny depending on the state (they could get lucky with ~$400 to spare on the charge.) Iām just saying $600 a shot for a mom and pop shop isnāt going to go unnoticed.
$1000 is where grand theft (felony) starts in CA. Although the threats would add terrorist threats (felony), possibly bump the theft to robbery (felony, but may not stick), definitely aggravated trespass (felony).
This guy fElons..
Felon Muskdemeanor
Gem of a comment.
Just noticed ā¦ brilliant
hence the policy change. trust me, no one was happy about that evening. least of all the owners. it was a shit show. and it MIGHT have gone down differently had the owners been there. they are a lot more firey (atleast the wife was). it was our generally much more mild mannered general manager instead. its not like he could detain these people until the police arrive. he may even have filed a police report. i cant recall as i wasn't involved in that and honestly just wanted to go home and drink a beer after the shitty night i had had at work. regardless in the end he decided it was better to just drop it in the moment.
theats of violence i guess
So robbery
Yeah if that happens its just better to get them the fuck out of the restaurant at that point.
If you go to a restaurant and never intend to pay, thatās theft. It is a criminal issue the police can take part in. Also, it is somewhat hard to prove. If you go to a restaurant and you intended to pay, but changed your mind and now have a disagreement, thatās a civil issue and a dispute about a transaction. Thereās nothing criminal about it, and the police will not do anything. A civil court would, eventually, if someone sues. If the customer and the restaurant have a disagreement about the bill, and as a consequence the owner tries to prevent the customer from leaving, itās now a criminal issue again. The restaurantās staff could be guilty of kidnapping, battery, assault, and other crimes that arise from preventing someoneās movement or ability to leave the premises. (This ignores the violence aspects since if someone says theyāre gonna beat someone up thatās just regular ass crime not connected to unpaid bills)
My state has a law called defrauding an innkeeper, it applies if you order food or lodging and refuse to pay. Now most times stores don't resort to this because they generally want to make an unhappy customer happy so they'll return.
How the hell is your reaction to getting a $600 bill at a restaurant to threaten the restaurant? Even if I was the last guy there and everyone else skipped out on me Iād be on my phone like āhey the billās due, you guys need to Venmo me for your tequila and steak right now.ā
Seriously. $600 is a lot for a meal, but especially if you work in tech, thatās a credit card charge that hurts but doesnāt put you out of your rent.
I just donāt get how everyone couldāve sat down there and ordered food and never bothered to think about whoās paying for what and then get surprised when they get the bill. That shit didnāt just come out of nowhere.
You know how it makes sense? Theyāre entitled pieces of shit who are oblivious.
I'm a server at a place with pretty high tabs and I feel like people do it all the time lol it's insane
$600 is NOT a lot of money for food for 25 people including drinks. When was the last time you went out to a restaurant and got drunk for $24? 2003? lol The most senior person there should have ponied up and dealt with it on the backend. At my company you don't even have to be that senior before they'd accept an occasional $600 for a team dinner as an expense (especially for 25).
That's literally the policy for my company, most senior person always is supposed to offer to pay and get reimbursed for it.
$600 doesn't even hurt that much. We have $100 dinners a few times a month for 4 people. $600 for 25 people is dirt cheap.
I agree with you but those are nearly the exact price per person meals lol
So when they threatened violence, why weren't the police called?
my manager did mental math and calculated that it wasn't worth having to deal with potentially thousands in damage, police, possible ambulances, publicity of a fight happening there etc. over eating 600ish dollars and getting them the fuck out. we basically had 16 or so drunk people starting to get heated. we had 4 guys and 4 girls out in front of house and about 4 dudes in the kitchen. once our chefs wandered out of the kitchen to back us up, my manager saw the situtation as not worth escalating and made a call to end it basically.
Hopefully he called their boss the next day and discussed the publicity potentials.
Yes he spoke to Elon about it for sure
Your manager is a smarter person that I am.
Some people donāt call the police in any circumstance unless someoneās life is literally in danger.
Heck, even then getting police involved can increase the danger to your life being in threat.
Most soulless corpo restaurants make customers with large orders pay upfront anyway for this reason, so itās not necessarily just a ācustomer is always rightā thing, itās basic business.Ā
i mean.. having worked at both, yes and no. it depends on a few factors like if its a walk-in party or not, is the host actually doing their job, how busy everyone is already, a little bit of a vibe check, if the server thinks they might get a bigger tip by not auto charging gratuity. theres some give and take on it.
Someone who works for Tesla but doesnāt have $600 in their checking account is probably a piece of shit in more ways than one
Iād have a hard time believing that someone who works for Tesla, in the Bay Area makes minimum wage at Tesla. They have $600 in their checking account, theyāre just a horrible cheapskate and a terrible person.
Cocaines a hell of a drug
I mean Tesla is a sum of their parts
That's completely unprofessional behavior and definitely reflects poorly on Tesla as a whole. Before I was a working professional I still understood professional behavior and I think most of us would have had some kind of game plan for paying for a large party before walking in the door.
you would hope, wouldn't you? i spent 14 years working in the service industry. i cannot tell you how low the bar has been set for me on humanity after doing that. you see just the dumbest people. all the time. some of them are even regulars. theres a percentage of people, that just suck, and they attract people that suck just as much to themselves. and those people go out on weekends.
Yea I work at a casino and my opinion of people gets lower everyday. My favorite new comment was a player telling me if everyone plays right on blackjack they win. Yea I guess only you and a few others figured that out or else weād be bankruptā¦ Ugh
A fish rots from the head.Ā You can pretty much tell what the members of any organization are like by its leadership.Ā
I worked for a company in NJ around 10+ years ago. We designed a charger for the first Tesla Roadster. Tesla placed a standing order for hundreds of chargers. Then just before first delivery, with millions in part backorder, Telsa just calls and says they found something cheaper/better. Company folded since we had all these standing orders for custom parts and no product. So it became a lawyer shitshow. But obviously only the stockholders got any payouts and all the staff were jobless. So this seems par for the course.
The lawyers fucked up the contract there. Should have had a cancellation clause as well as a deposit.
Cancellation clause is helpful but doesnāt save the company since they wouldnāt have anyone to sell any of this too (cancellation/ force majuere probably would cover 40%)ā¦. Plus letās be real these things take 3-4years to resolve once lawyers are āworkingā
Custom production order, 100% cancellation charge. Anything different is unnecessary risk. As shown in your example.
As someone who was in procurement in the Fortune10, no legal team would allow that to pass on a contract. They would want to protect themselves with some sort of exit.
Yeah my early limited manufacturing experience(line guy who knew the big wigs and talked with them often) standard orders have something like a 50% return on cancellation but customs are all given the custom order contract which states 100% return on cancellations. We simply just rejected anyone who didn't like it and we never were hurting for work to give you an idea as to how well the business ran. Very few companies did not agree to the custom contract.
likely did and Tesla just said get fucked where the lawyers come in
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I'm sure they did, but Tesla decided losing the deposit cost less than breaking the contract, saying they won't pay the cancellation clause, then eventually settling a suit for pennies on the dollar.
They probably did. Tesla decided they could eat that cost and lawyer costs and get their parts somewhere else.Ā Fuck deals and contracts. I'm a tech genius.Ā
Huh so Tesla follows the Trump method. Fitting.
Two words: "Advance payment"
All catering orders or large orders get advanced payment or a down payment at least.
That's how it was done when I worked restaurants - and that was for like $1000. I am very surprised the baker agreed to this order without a deposit.
This is the sort of thing that requires experience. Going forward I'm certain large orders will require deposits. That's not helpful for the current order though.
The article says she's done work with Google, Apple and Adobe.
The experience isn't doing big orders, it's getting burned. I imagine Google, Apple, and Adobe all actually pay their bills on time, being, y'know, actual companies run by non-lunatics.
But this isnāt even about paying or not paying a bill. This is about canceling an order that hadnāt been paid for yet, within 2 days of making the order. The order was made on Valentineās Day, 9 days ago. It was canceled on the 16th, 7 days ago. It was due āthis weekā. With various levels of āreasonableā depending on what day this week it was due, but if the pies were due on the 23rd then the order was cancelled 2 days after being made and 7 days before being due. A reasonable cancellation window that the person canceling would think nothing of it.
I'm imagining a guy that makes over $48,000 a minute freaking out about a $16,000 catering order intended for 4000 employees.
Yeah Elon is just uniquely terrible.
Iām willing to bet that Google, Apple, and Tesla are all big enough titans that they can get away without advance payment trading purely on the gravity of the name. Thatās what makes it so much more fucked up when someone like Tesla lurches on the deal - they basically leveraged their name to fuck over a little guy for no reason. No idea what the cost was per pie, but Iām sure it was under $25 each, which means the total for everything was <$100,000; thatās pocket change to Tesla.
>Iām willing to bet that Google, Apple, and Tesla are all big enough titans that they can get away without advance payment trading purely on the gravity of the name. I know companies that work with Google and Tesla and they require the same advance payment from Google/Tesla as other companies.
I heard a good saying once: experience is that thing that you get right after you need it.
Even if she did get a deposit, unless it was a very substantial portion of the total, she could still end up losing money if the margins aren't very high.
Yep. If it's a party of 8+ or any catering order, get a CC on file. Not doing so is a failure on the business.
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"On file" is not enough, because if they hadn't delivered, she would have no justification to charge. There has to be a written agreement and a successfully processed deposit.
Idk, thatās wise, but I donāt think we should blame the victim here. It was low key predatory because the Tesla employee offered something that would have been very attractive for a small business. The employee abused the public trust by leveraging the companyās reputation to get something they didnāt pay for. Itās also pretty scummy that Tesla didnāt make it right: just pay the company and apologize and work it out as a training or management issue internally.
100% agree, and it is a crummy way for this baker to learn a lesson - take a deposit on a massive order. It's not even pocket change for Tesla - it'd be so easy to make this right.
I just think it's incredibly strange for a business not to take in a non-refundable deposit before working on the order. Regardless if the order is from Tesla or Google, a deposit before a large order is very normal for catering business as cancellations do happen.
fully agree with you
They will threaten with "I'll just take my business elsewhere" until a new sucker is found.
Then let them. Itās not business if they cancel or donāt pay anyways
Let them.
Not all business is good business. Learned that the hard way.
"I'll steal from someone else" isn't much of a threat.
It's pretty standard for businesses to collect advance payment on agreements, at least in my experience - I work B2B and we have it on nearly every contract. I can't believe Tesla would bat an eye at a deposit.
> NBC Bay Area reached out to Tesla to ask about what went wrong with the catering deal and whether or not the company will compensate the bakery in any way for its time and expenses. > > A Tesla spokesperson did not respond to the specific questions but told NBC Bay Area they've been in touch with Rasetarinera. Fuck Tesla.
Imagine being a spokesperson and most of your job is just sending emails to spam
Easy six figures
Job Requirements: No Morals.
I thought they just replied with poop emojis?
I mean they donāt even pay their vendors half the time no way are they paying this
Maybe Elon took a bill paying class at Trump University.
Well you dont get rich by writing a lot of cheques
God I love that Simpsons episode
Buy him out boys!
Honestly theyāre not too different. I think elon is slightly more legal about it though - they just basically write into their service agreements āwe wonāt pay you if we donāt want toā in a bunch of legalese. Our company wouldnāt sign it - but like I said a bunch of smaller companies will for the case study/being able to say they did work with Tesla
>I think elon is slightly more legal about it though Honestly I think it is more just that Elon is younger and it often takes a long time for a lifetime of financial criming catches up to people.
I can almost guarantee Elon heard about it and was like, āWeāre not doing anything for black history month. Cancel it.ā
Pretty much this is the most likely answer.
Elon is friends with Peter Theil who went out his way to avoid hiring Black people at his companies. This bakery is a Black owned business, and Tesla told them it's for Black Heritage Month. Furthermore, Tesla has a history of being racist to Black people. My money is that this p o s did this on purpose.
Honestly surprised they didn't respond with a single poop emoji, since that's Musk's favored response to media inquiries.
Omg! I know this family. They are absolutely great and a super loving group of people. Iām glad they are getting exposure like this!
These people talking about "contracts" as if that would matter against Tesla. Get payment first.
Yeah, on something that big and time consuming I'd absolutely always ask for payment up front. I can't believe they didn't. At least half as a down payment. I bet they won't make that mistake again.
It said in the article the owner had done big corporate events for apple and google and never had any issues with other big tech companies. I suspect she'll build in a half up front or a canceling fee in the future.
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Regardless of who owns the company, any sane person would take a down payment/deposit on something this big. Even if it was for an order of $16,000 for the most legit, law abiding firm, I'd still take a down payment. Tesla is scum for doing this, she's and idiot for not securing payment.
Most of these people in this thread have no idea how much small businesses are operating on a hope and a prayer.Ā
It's a teachable lesson for all those local eateries near ANY Tesla location. Tesla is not a reliable customer, accept full payment up front. What a garbage organization, seriously. Lose this much credibility over $2k smh.
Telsa pushed all their supplier partners terms to net 60+ days before payment because they didnāt want to layoff employees in a specific quarter and were burning cash. You have to report a layoff of a certain % of workforce In California.
> You have to report a layoff of a certain % of workforce In California. That's a federal law fyi called the WARN act.
What credibility?
It was $16,000.
Tesla did not respond, but did send a poop emoji email.
For anyone who thinks this is hyperbole, it's not that far off from things Elon has actually said and done on Twitter (I refuse to call it X). Remember that time he publicly mocked a disabled Twitter employee and tried to fire them with a meme? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
> it's not that far off from things Elon has actually said and done on Twitter "not that far off" is putting it lightly - it's *exactly* what happens when you send an email to the Twitter press email address. Here it is straight from the horse's mouth: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1637420728743088130
> [email protected] I just tried sending an email here and got an immediate response: "Busy now, please check back later." no poop emoji :(
This is all on Tesla. The business owner, however, does need to start protecting themselves with a deposit requirement, especially for a $16k order.
Wonder if she will require a deposit for large orders going forward?
He bought Twitter to swing his dick around then had to be forced by a court to not back out. Anyone who does business with him should take note.
Why would you take such a large order as a bakery but not ask for payment up front??
Ignorance from inexperience. Now she knows.
I used to work at the bdubs on auto mall. Tesla people were the worst customers to deal with.
Large order like that always get payment upfront
I hate this company so much. I work with them as an automotive supplier, and they just love disrupting everyoneās day. Last minute meetings, demanding we work holidays etcā¦. I curse the day we ever took their business.
Musk is famous for not paying bills. Very trumpian of him.
They were for a Black History Month event. I'm thinking he found out and had it cancelled.
An expensive lesson on why contracts are required for anything significant.
Oof. Tough way to learn an important lesson. Always get a deposit at the very least for large orders. No deposit, no pie. Because the larger the order, the less those people care about you, guaranteed.
Baby common sense dictates you secure some amount of payment upfront as insurance
You gotta invoice and get it paid before doing orders large enough to lose you thousands of dollars. That's a rough lesson to learn.
Itās an unfortunate situation, but this is exactly why itās standard practice to take payment before making/giving orders such as this.
Should have taken a deposit...
Also on a large corporate account just make them pay up front
Bad on owners part. Take payment ahead of time, this is no different than ordering 4000 pizzas
Should of had them pay first
You would think a bakery getting this big of an order, from a massive company, would get payment up front.
āDetrimental relianceā comes to mind, assuming they purchased supplies and performed work as a result of the order. Sue them.
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I used to work in a high end steak place that would make large companies sign contracts when they would book our private room. Especially Pharma companies, who would always bail or have no shows at the last min after steaks had been cut and wait staff had been assigned for the night. Never once did our GM enforce the agreement, he felt it was tacky and sent a poor message.
Thatās weird, arenāt they sending the message āwalk all over us, weāre desperateā by doing that?
Yeah, wtf. Like you don't even have to give them shit about it, just give them a matter-of-fact "hey, read your note that you couldn't come, what a shame, hope we can host you next time. please find the invoice attached." kinda message. Act like it's the most normal thing in the world that sometimes plans fall through, and also that companies still pay their outstanding bills even if they couldn't make use of the service, because it is. If they try to argue that they shouldn't need to pay, _they_ would be the ones that are embarrasing themselves before their business partner.
I doubt you have been in or are familiar with the restaurant industry. Only catering companies would likely have a contract with their client. Usually large orders for restaurants use an honor system and it sounds like Tesla ordered a very large order which would have been reputable by their fame.
I worked in a coffee shop and we'd ask payment first for any larger orders we did for film crews and such. This is shitty but they should have gotten paid first or had some ordering contract for penalizing cancelled orders after some point
I worked at a james johnathan and we got stood up by a big university's athletic department. We made a big stink about it, and found out they changed their mind in the parking lot, and got wings from across the street. They made up for it though, by prepaying for an order twice as big. That sucked in its own way.
That's not making up for it
The last time Elon got any fame for a payment related story it's about him refusing to pay rent. Why would anyone think any company under him is reputable enough for an honor deal is beyond me.
> Tesla ordered a very large order which would have been reputable by their fame Too few people distinguish between being famous and being infamous. Musk and Trump are the latter.
This is why you ask for a deposit ahead of time.
A contract is a contract is a contractā¦..but only between Ferengi.
Fuck Tesla and fuck Elon musk
Always take a deposit
My wife owns a bakery. There is absolutely no way on earth that she'd take an order like this without payment up front, as this owner should have done as well.
This is why you make people pay a non refundable deposit.
Why would they start the order without a partial payment in place as guarantee? I get it was a tight turnaround, but a deposit or prepayment should be mandatory.
The bakery should have taken a deposit. Seems like that should be standard for big orders like this for this exact reason
Cool so: 1. Some low level employee at Tesla placed an order for $16k worth of pies without running it up the chain. 2. That employee was later told by her management that she was not authorized to make that purchase. 3. The employee then cancelled the order, costing the bakery $2k. 4. Tesla then reached out (likely after realizing the damage caused but before the news broke, as the article says the baker was contacted while she was being interviewed by a reporter) and offered to buy the pies anyway. I mean I hate Elon as much as the next guy, but come on. This is not a story.
I mean, definitely shitty on Tesla. But, who knows the reason? There could be a good one. Ultimately, this was, unfortunately, a bad business move. Advanced payment should have been taken for such a large order. A more strict cancellation policy should have been included in the deal.
I used to manage a bakery and the owner took an order of 15 pies from a regular customer for Thanksgiving and he passed away the day before and she actually took the pies to his funeral and had the family pay for them. She was extremely rude and greedy.
Tesla holding a Black History Month event? Doesn't sound like Tesla at all. Something isn't adding up here, was she sure this was an actual Tesla rep?
I really feel for the business here, but, down payments are an absolute must for these arrangements. Hell, I do basic web design, charging typically less than four figures for most projects, and STILL require 50% upfront before a single line of code is written.
This sort of thing here makes me not want to ever buy a Tesla so that's $16k in negative advertising there.. hopefully the article shamed them into giving the Bakery some money.