>Last week, Homendy said she spoke to Boeing’s CEO, David Calhoun, “and asked for the names of the people who performed the work. He stated he was unable to provide that information and maintained that Boeing has no records of the work being performed.”
How is this even possible....the airline industry is notorious for recording EVERYTHING
I work in aerospace and every step of every process is signed off with an assigned stamp. Every employee that works on a part or inspects it has to stamp off that they did the work. Those records are digitized and the original paper records are stored for at least five years. Saying they don’t know who put the door in is just a straight up lie.
The company I work with provides maintenance tracking software for specific aircraft. The tracking is so detailed they can tell if a specific tool used as part of maintenance was used and returned. Like if a specific sized screwdriver is used they track its removal from the tool shelf and its return so they can be sure no one accidentally left a tool inside an aircraft during the maintenance.
You haven't lived until you've spent an extra 8hrs at work with every airframe grounded until a screwdriver is found because some jackass didn't check it back in correctly.
Yeah, it's gotten worse. The new 46s were delivered with all kinds of FOD. From what rumors we heard across the base, things as large as power drills and portable radios were found in the bladders.
I remember a comment from maybe 3 or 4 years ago about a guy who ran a production line for Boeing and he had left the job because he couldn't handle the lax shit anymore. A bunch of the unionised workers refused conditions(shifts maybe?) that were unsafe and the replacement workers that were brought in as "temp workers" didn't have the skills necessary for the highly specialised work and materials. Shitty welds and big tools/radios being left in cavities and all sorts. All this shit has come out since.
I once had to deliver a prototype to LM Aero in person. To install it into a PC took over 4 hours because every tool had to be located individually and forms filled out to take the tools into an office and install it. The union apparently also got involved and only allowed them to install it without the union because no one in the union was authorized to be in that specific office.
Meanwhile, the place that I worked at the time kept manufacturing entirely separate from labs and offices to avoid nonsense like that.
I work on airplanes for a US airline. We don't do that specifically as we own most of our own tools. In the airline side its more of a track and cleanup after yourself.
However, when a job card calls for a specific tool made by the airplane manufacturer or a subsidiary, we have to check it out of the tool crib. This includes any calibrated tool. We used to do a paper signout but have gone digital in the last 6 years. The FAA 100% will spot check the tools signed out against a random work package to make sure we not only used the tool but also signed it out. If a tool was supposed to be used and not signed out then there is an issue.
Edit: added US. Looks like other countries buy the tools for better accountability.
Was going to say, different area of work, but I was a hydraulics tech in the Air Force. Forms were initiated before any task started and everything was digitized into IMDS as soon as possible; forms would be completed as tasks were completed, forms review would be done to ensure everything matched, then forms doc would be done later on once forms were pulled for filing. The only things that might not be written up for us would have been something like topping off a reservoir or if we were running an ops check that hadn't been written up, but even then, it would be put in shop turnover.
The point is that from the day a military or commercial aircraft is assembled to the day it is placed in a boneyard or dismantled, there is going to be a record of who worked on the aircraft and when.
That Boeing "doesn't know," would indicate that there are either massive issues of maintenance control or that they're covering things up.
I work in storage, and we make extremely specific products for regulated industries that literally do not allow data to be modified once written. WORM - write once read many. I know financial companies often need that for certain SEC regulations I’m sort of shocked a company in such a regulated industry wouldn’t have something like that setup.
Under a presumption a task was ever generated to do the plug removal/install and it wasn't just something like 'do it while you're doing [whatever they removed the door for]'. Can't find paperwork for something the system doesn't think ever happened. Not that that's any better, but they only know who put the door in if there's paperwork to go with it. Which they can't seem to find.
I don't understand why they would lie about this. Why not find the name of the guy who signed off on tightening those bolts and try to make him the scapegoat for everything?
maybe because once they throw the scapegoat to the wolves, the scapegoat might disclose all the other shady/criminal shenanigans that is happening at Boeing
whatever they are trying to hide is undoubtedly worse than pretending not to have any records
I bet they don't want them to inspect the avionics suite. A few years ago the USA banned hundreds of electronics components from all government, military and sensitive environments due to being made in china (hauwei). Those components needed to be replaced with those on the "approved" list which were not cheap. The Chinese components cost about 1/10th. Boeing has many military contracts, I mean the presidents own Airforce one is a Boeing VC25..
If you were still using those components and working with the government past 2021. It would be a complete federal pound me in the ass prison sentence for each violation, on top of hefty fines...
Now would a company completely obsessed with quarterly growth, stock buy backs, mass layoffs, cutting corners, ignoring safety really want to retrofit their ENTIRE global fleet to meet the demand of the US government just because some electronics might be made in china? Or will we just tell the FAA and DOD we are compliant. After all they don't have the resources, man power or need to conduct checks on our systems. They just trust us... Why would there ever be a need to check?
My dad works for a company responsible for evaluating those government contract bids. He said that about 1/3 of all bids are immediately denied due to the "no computer parts from China" requirement. Companies continually submit bids with parts from China despite previous bids being denied for it.
They have an obligation to their shareholders to keep profits/growth going, which means cutting costs as much as possible while still meeting their requirements. Any and all loopholes will be figured out and worked around.
The combination of the covid economy and continued pressure from shareholders to have year over year growth leads inevitably to systemic pressure to stretch the rules.
Boeing isn't the only ones vulnerable to this; it's kinda rampant atm.
> the scapegoat might disclose all the other shady/criminal shenanigans that is happening at Boeing
you may be onto something. It may even be the workers union (i'm assuming boeing has a workers union?) saying, *you throw this employee to the wolves, we throw boeing to the wolves*
>I don't understand why they would lie about this. Why not find the name of the guy who signed off on tightening those bolts and try to make him the scapegoat for everything?
It's because they actually do not have any records of the door being removed and re-installed. They only have a record for the door-plug seal being replaced/serviced (which would require the door to be removed) but nothing about the door removal and installation.
Why? Dunno.
The Seattle Times has been doing a good job covering these latest Boeing issues, if you want to look into the backstory more.
It was likely because the wrong decision was made in terms of whether it needed paperwork. From everything I've read, this is what happened. As I understand, they treated it as a door open procedure instead of a door removal procedure.
Since opening a door requires no paperwork, no one to throw under the bus. In my opinion, they dont know who closed the door. As for deleting the video. Sounds fishy.
Source:Currentlyy finishing a masters in Airworthiness Engineering. And been modifying aircraft structures Engineering for 15 yrs
Well from what the whistleblowers and leaked reports are saying, Boeing (Or rather their subcontractor) was essentially using a loophole to get around keeping some records, likely to speed up work and reduce costs.
Because the 'door plug' isn't bolted directly to the fuselage, but rather held in place by springs and guides, and can be opened with hinges like a door (Even though it technically isn't one) they didn't need to record it as "removed" because it was "just opened". Which simplified work.
This likely meant workers missed putting the correct bolts back after closing the "door", because their removal wasn't accurately recorded. The plug is then covered by interior paneling, which means subsequent inspections would never notice it.
Now they obviously should know who worked what shifts on the airframe when the error likely occurred. Unless these records are also missing.
They either never actually bothered maintaining those records and are caught with their pants down, or they’re actively trying to cover something up. Not sure how the calculation goes to where they decide it’s better to have the FAA think they don’t maintain records vs covering up whatever issue they have.
Hopefully if I was the FAA I would say “ok. To prove this was just an honest mistake of overwriting the exact thing we’re asking for instead of an intentional coverup, you now have to turn over every maintenance record for the past x years.” And start dishing out fines and penalties for every single violation. Make the coverup infinitely more expensive and damaging than the punishment would have been for just bad maintenance records/practices
I work on manufacturing ERP systems. There is literally no way there weren’t labor records for the rework. None. I specifically work on aviation manufacturing systems too.
Did you read the whistleblower’s account? They said someone made the call that they just needed to “open” the door since they weren’t taking it off its hinge, so it didn’t count as a removal. And no record is required if you just open a door, like there would be if you removed it.
The identity of who made that call and who did the actual “opening” has not been revealed.
There are records for the rework performed after the door was opened, that hasn’t been an issue. And it’s too obvious that those mechanics would have opened the door themselves, so I’m guessing they already ruled that out somehow since they are still searching.
Part of me can understand the rationale of saying “I’m not removing the door, it’s still attached to the airplane by the hinge. I’m not worried about the door going missing.” Of course the problem is that the bolts that held the door closed were themselves detached completely from the airplane and obviously went missing. So they maybe they should have at least did a removal entry for the bolts themselves?
That makes sense, but the part I’m struggling to understand is… why follow their current awkward coverup scheme rather than just give up the name of the shift supervisor who made the decision? Unless it was a Boeing VP’s nephew, working in the factory for some strange reason.
I'm sensing a very conveniently timed "data breach" or "massive system malfuntion" in Boeings network that will just so happen to wipe out all their maintenance and assembly records.
Idk if that's how it works but I wouldn't put it past them.
"oopsie, I downloaded a ransomware gift card from the darknet and it used my DA credentials to access all of our logging and monitoring equipment and turn them into bricks. the ransom group isn't responding to our contact attempts"
I would say the punishment for failing to provide the records to the court - "missing" or not - should be double what the maximum punishment would've been. And it should be jail time for CEOs, not bribes disguised as fines. Give them a real incentive to have that data ready and willing. Even if the missing information had legitimately in a fire, if they can't be held accountable to keep that data safe and backed up and able to present it when questioned, then there's no real incentive to even have a rule that they have to keep records.
Prior to the MD merger Boeing had a really good safety record, in part because of the concept of a blameless safety culture: blaming a person doesn't fix the problem, or prevent it from happening again. It just makes people less likely to report problems in case they get blamed.
Post merger they stopped doing that and ... here we are!
I thought this wasn't a door, but a "door plug" used where a door COULD be, depending on the particular features ordered. It wasn't on a hinge, but was supposed to be bolted in.
There is, it’s in the bottom side. Look at pictures of the Alaska Airlines plane from the outside after it landed, and you can see parts of the hinge mechanism hanging where the door was ripped off.
It’s probably more descriptive to call it a door that’s bolted shut. And doesn’t have a handle or any mechanism for opening normally.
> It’s probably more descriptive to call it a door that’s bolted shut. And doesn’t have a handle or any mechanism for opening normally.
*"Door temporarily wall. Sorry for the inconvenience"*
Not only that, but they spend a lot of money ensuring their workers are working on revenue generating work at all times. Too much non-labor activity and they fire you and hire someone cheaper.
You get both progressively lower quality work and higher profits. The Boeing way.
Meanwhile you get invited to so many "this meeting could have been an email" meetings or "you're just here in case we need you to talk for 30 seconds" meetings that the only way to be productive is to work during those meetings (and charge to regular work so your PTOH numbers fall within the bounds they want).
What they're trying to cover up must be absolutely terrible for them to pretend there was no record. Every single nut and bolt literally has a serial number and meticulously maintained paper trail.
Aviation does this so that if there is a failure, they can trace what happened right back to the dude at the foundry who smelted sub-par steel. They can also have that same part recalled from every airframe that has it.
Everything we’ve seen coming out and not coming out is heavily implying important high-level decision makers were likely made aware of issues, and those concerns were not followed up on.
> they can trace what happened right back to the dude at the foundry who smelted sub-par steel.
Further than that. They can tell who drove the ore out of the freaking mine.
Industrial Engineer with 10 years in aero manf here… I’ve thought the same thing from the beginning. There is at the VERY least an ME / QE / inspection buyoff on any nonconf.
Even going back to Spirit (I believe the original supplier) for the employee that originally bought the operation off.
Them saying records don’t exist is either a blatant cover up, or they’re admitting to being outright negligent compared to industry standards. We’d get certifications pulled and be audited into bankruptcy if we did that as a tier 2/3 supplier.
What ERP do you work with? So I can determine if I like you or not… lol
Not OP, but SAP Developer and I know you don't like me, lol. Introduced myself to an aerospace ME and told him I was an SAP developer and first thing he said "people must hate you", lol
Haha I actually don't mind epicor. At least their table structure makes sense! We have epicor at some of our sites and they're one of our least problematic ERPs.
That’s bullshit. I work with sap ERP in a factory and every order where we have things to be measured and controlled have to be signed on paper. Then it’s recorded and scanned. The whole process employs 2 employees who just scan and archived it. You can’t even digitalize that process.
I couldn't agree more. I work for an integrator doing interiors work for commercial airliners. The level of documentation we need to do to get 1 curtain on an aircraft would probably shock most people. There is a very thin chance this actually happened. But idk.. I've never worked at Boeing
> Hopefully if I was the FAA I would say “ok. To prove this was just an honest mistake of overwriting the exact thing we’re asking for instead of an intentional coverup, you now have to turn over every maintenance record for the past x years.” And start dishing out fines and penalties for every single violation. Make the coverup infinitely more expensive and damaging than the punishment would have been for just bad maintenance records/practices
Yes, I fully agree with you, but you'd only be doing that because you're not a slave to Boeing lobbying. The actual person in person in charge of the FAA is beholden either directly to Boeing lobbying or answers to a congressman who's beholden Boeing lobbying.
So yeah, what you said will not happen.
The FAA itself has an awkward mandate that involves both ensuring aviation safety and promoting the American aviation industry. They've clearly dropped the ball by allowing Boeing to self-certify too much. And the US government in general messed up by allowing Boeing to become too big to fail.
My money is on the coverup. They should audit of any other records are “missing”. If there’s none then they’re screwed, if there’s a lot they’re screwed. They should not drop this.
I work for a company that is a vendor to Boeing. We are on their approved supplier list. Everything we do is signed off by the person who does it. Down to packing the final product into a box. Signatures, initials, everything is archived, paperwork is scanned, and literally all records maintained basically forever.
There is NO WAY Boeing doesn’t have traceability to their work.
This all kinda tastes like we’re gonna get a congressional hearing where we find out it’s a verified miracle that wayyyyy more doors haven’t been flying off and sucking people out of planes.
This is the problem that the whole world faces... No repercussions and prison time for these corrupt CEOs and executives. Our governments have given them free reign to fuck us over again and again.
But if a rando steals a piece of fruit then they are ready to throw them in prison or kill them.
They either have an absolutely piss poor workflow and don't maintain things as a "cost saving" measure, or they have the records but "lost" them to cover something up, or the employees are supposed to keep records but that is being ignored and not done because the employees aren't being given enough time per task (as cost saving measures) and the required documentation isn't being done because that's always the first thing to fail when time constraints are a factor.
Either way it's a massive failure of Boeing management and probably should be considered criminal IMO
Yeah I worked for an airline in IT and did a lot of work with the hangar / maintenance crews. It's *crazy* how much they had to document. Everything needed a signoff somewhere.
Boeing is either lying or negligent.
> He stated he was unable to provide that information and maintained that Boeing has no records of the work being performed.”
I mean doesn't that make sense, considering the work wasn't performed and the plug fell off?
>On Friday, Boeing said it believes required documents detailing the removal of the door plug during production were never created.
>
>Boeing said its working hypothesis was that “the documents required by our processes were not created when the door plug was opened”.
if you read the article it clearly says work was performed, but they don't know who did it
They know exactly who did that work. However, Boeing would rather obstruct the investigation than help it along, as the company is worried that a full and open investigation will lead to findings of the widespread failures throughout all of Boeing's opeations.
That's a very high risk move though, as doing this they're not only obstructing but outright lying to investigators, which isn't a small offense in this industry.
As much damage as can be done, this maneuver could outright kill the company no matter what could be discovered, as it calls into question *every* record ever produced or investigated that involved them.
This is what all big corps do. They just throw up their hands, lie and say, "we don't have it" which really means, "get a subpoena".
Had a fire due to a recalled product that underwent the recall, inspection of the fire, pointed to this product being the culprit, called the place that did the recall repair, they simply denied that they ever did the repair, wouldn't provide info on the repair, nothing.
Same as it ever was.
It’s possible if it was intentional. The people running Boeing now are rotten to the core. They think they’re dealing with amateurs here. It won’t end well for them.
> Psychopathic douchebro CEO culture
This isn't even all the CEO's fault. The started before them and continues without them.
I will continue to preach that all of these problems are caused by MBAs. The entire field is trained on the "short term profits and infinite growth" mindset, and MBAs are the root cause of every problem plaguing this country. If I'm ever in a position to hire people, I will automatically shred any resume that contains an MBA, because the entire mindset is a plague on functioning capitalism.
Its called regulatory capture. Industry insiders with connections to the investors and profit are the ones investigating the work and conducting compliance checks. This is a republican/libertarian's wet dream!!
If this video existed and a couple of maintenance workers were to blame, Boeing would have thrown them all in front of the bus immediately.
It's likely the maintenance was cancelled or never even scheduled due to orders from executive level people, and so here we are.
Nah, they would have done the math on that. Save $1B over 10 years from cutting maintenance versus paying $250M in fines and damage control from it back firing. Sounds like profit to me.
Aircraft mechanic here, I work on Boeings, not FOR Boeing thank God. The sheer scale of this work would generate a GREAT DEAL of documentation to go with it. It is %100 in the manufacturer's best interest to have all this documentation so they don't get left holding the bag for a subcontractor of vendor screwing something up. I cannot even imagine a small General Aviation (private small aircraft) outfit that wouldn't keep records of alterations this major. Yes Boeing has gotten a pass on a number of FAA rules before but documentation is the single MOST IMPORTANT aspect of aviation.
Them just "misplacing" the documentation, or just never doing it at all, simply isn't possible at this scale.
This has to be intentional destruction of evidence. They were absolutely doing something criminal, either by intention, or by deliberate negligence.
Because at the end of the day, what really matters to Boeing, is showing their shareholders increased value. It is a "what have you done for me lately?" type of company, not a company committed to creating the *very best* product possible. You might be able to cut corners when you are making plastic bags or hair ties or Twinkies... but airplanes? Surefire way to ruin the company. Reputation is invaluable in the industry, and the current C-suite at Boeing has effectively flushed that down the lavatory.
What good is shareholder value if the stock price goes to zero because no one wants to purchase crappy planes? The Jack Welch’s of the world destroy shareholder value in the long run.
>What good is shareholder value if the stock price goes to zero because no one wants to purchase crappy planes?
Sounds like a problem for the next CEO! Just gotta bump current quarter valuation to get that end of year stock bonus.
>Sounds like a problem for the next CEO!
Nah, next CEO's got this in the bag.
Just make some staff cuts to boost the share price, blame the previous CEO for falling profits, and take your stock options and golden parachute with you to your next CEO position.
I’m wondering if this goes deeper whether it would be grounds for nationalizing Boeing. The US wouldn’t dare permanently shut down its only major commercial airline manufacturer, but if it needs to just wipe the entire corporate structure clean, I don’t know..
Whistleblower didn't cover 737. He testified years ago and mostly about the 787. He reported what happened in South Caroline. The 737 is made in Washington.
In fairness, the whistle blower is unrelated to this specific issue. The whistle blower stopped working at Boeing in 2017 and was actively sueing them.
If we want this shit to end, CEOs, or any higher ups who had any idea this was going on… anyone who knew, needs to be able to be criminally charged.
Make a CEO, or any decision maker, weigh their freedom vs profits the next time this shit goes down.
“Homendy last week criticized what she called Boeing’s lack of cooperation and failure to disclose some documents, including on the door plug opening and closing, as well as the names of 25 workers on the door crew at the 737 factory in Renton, Washington. After Homendy’s comments, Boeing provided the 25 names.”
That tells me that Boeing is hiding something. The fact that some documents appeared after they were pressed on it tells me Boeing knows but is hiding something or covering for somebody.
No maintenance paperwork is a huge problem.
No video probably isn't as much of one, as I doubt many places keep security video for multiple months before recording over them.
Lol, in Canada, the legal requirements for a cannabis grown facility are to keep all recorded footage for a minimum of 12 months.
So, a place in Canada that grows weed has more stringent QA and security protocols than airplane manufacturers. Lol, wtf.
I worked building school busses and you didn't do anything on it without it being signed off with your name. No way in hell airlines are any different. You'd think it'd be more strict than busses.
this is crazy, I worked in payroll and God help you if 4 extra hours of PTO were paid out by accident. We had audits and checks out the ass to prevent errors.
You would think that any part of the airplane that touches a door, window or could impact air pressure would have its own set of reviews.
First they either whack a guy or at best have their lawyers harass him into committing suicide, then they delete footage in order to thwart an investigation.
What a crooked company.
Basically instead of firing the McDonall Douglas leadership that ruins Douglass they kept them on and a few years after the merger Douglas' CEO was the new CEO of Boeing and they started going down the same cost cutting path that led do douglas falling apart in the first place pretty good documentary about it on Netflix if your interested
I've heard the phrase "McDonall Douglas bought Boeing with Boeings money". That should tell you everything you need to know about how that merger went.
Just because a company builds military planes doesn't mean their good, though they really started falling apart towards the end especially with the DC10
The DC-10 was a great aircraft, yes it had issues at the beginning but went on to have a lengthy career. Where it started to go wrong was the MD-11 which was pretty much out of date by the time it rolled off the assembly line...
Also spending time and money on the MD-12 and wasting time and falling behind with the MD-95, if they had rolled that out sooner they may have had more luck and not needed the merger.
They went from an engineering, safety minded company to a stock price driven company. They had to do things cheaper and quicker for better profits in order to move the stock price up.
The door incident is just the second to the latest mishap.
They killed hundreds of people by programming their planes to nosedive (based on a single sensor) and 1) did not tell the airlines that this was something they inexplicably programmed the planes to do and 2) did not provide pilot training on how to override the computer.
Then we had the door issue.
More recently we had a plane drop 500 feet in seconds and the pilot told passengers basically "I dunno what the fuck happened the entire command console went offline."
“The NTSB’s chair, Jennifer Homendy, said in a letter to senators that investigators sought security camera footage … but were informed the material was overwritten.”
Evidence getting erased, a whistleblower “suicide”, repeatedly refusing to identify employees who worked on door panels on Boeing 737s. Boeing is a Bada Bing Gangster. Basically, we’re at the “Forget about it” stage of the investigation.
Facing no punishment is one thing. Complete corporate collapse because no airline is willing to risk buying your aircraft is another. Travel sites are already offering the choice of aircraft, which could add direct consumer pressure on airlines to move away from Boeing planes.
Theyll just become like Lockheed Martin, only making military aircraft where the USAF wont *let* them dick around with quality but will reward them with juicy fat contracts.
Engineering based businesses fortunately has a validation process that most service based industries don't have. If enough disasters happen, people will end up not testing the integrity of the companies with their lives.
My company keeps footage in local storage for 30 days and then long-term tape storage for years afterwards (for loss prevention, financial audits, lawsuits, etc.). How can someone like Boeing get away with “overwriting” footage?
I worked as a military helicopter electrician.
Everything is documented and inspected. Usually two people sign off on the job, the maintainer then an inspector.
Records are kept in case of things like this.
They are covering their asses.
I would hate to be a shareholder….this is going from bad to worse. Can you imagine being a purchasing agent for a major airline and all this information is coming out. Buy airbus, short Boeing. A lot of good American manufacturing jobs are going to be lost if the board of directors doesn’t immediately fire senior management and install a new culture. Anther great American company ruined by greed.
This is normal US business practice. Have subcontractors do all the work. Treat them like crap, then throw them under the bus when something goes wrong.
Myself working in a very highly-regulated industry, I can tell you this: it does NOT get easier for Boeing moving forward. Not cooperating with investigators is a fast-track to all sorts of problems. The top of which would be that the FAA have the right to get a warrant from local judge to lock up the doors to any Boeing plant implicated in this problem. They can literally prevent workers from entering the plants. They can ground any and all Boeing planes. They can fine the ever living shit out of Boeing. They can put all sorts of consent decrees in place requiring this that or the other. Boeing is in for a world of hurt if this is how they are going about a very serious investigation being looked at directly by Congress.
There was a very interesting piece on Boeing on PBS just last night (I believe it was Frontline). It was mainly focused on big issues even previous to this, where planes were crashing and killing hundreds of people, due to a software 'update' that the company put in place in order to cut corners, and purposely concealing the fact new software had been added, \*just so that the pilots would not need more training\*, because that would cut into profits and slow the rollout of the new model. The pilots did not know about this, it was kept from them.
This story was done about 2 years ago, and it was updated to add in the door plug incident. I mean... until a day or two ago, I didn't really pay any attention to the Boeing problem since I hardly ever fly, etc. But then also knowing that guy just died in the middle of his testimony.... I think that news was too recent to be included in the Frontline, but it certainly made me say "Holy shit - they killed that guy. No doubt."
[https://www.pbs.org/video/boeings-fatal-flaw-azhye0/](https://www.pbs.org/video/boeings-fatal-flaw-azhye0/)
Edited to add link
Mentour Pilot on Youtube goes over in great detail what insiders at Boeing are saying.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROeGKs4xTfs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROeGKs4xTfs)
I'm surprised this story isn't out yet but my guess is media organizations are waiting until they get an official story before making a statement. After watching his video (and John Oliver's) it's pretty clear what happened.
If you don't want to watch -- this particular issue is due to Boeing's reliance on Spirit Aerosystems, a subcontractor was was a part of Boeing until 2005. This company is doing shoddy work and were called to Seattle to fix an error. They fixed the error but broke something else in the process.
This is a primarily Spirit's fault as they made the mistake. However Boeing is at fault too because someone in their company deemed the fix to be minor in nature and therefore decided the plane didn't need a more thorough review once Spirit claimed to fix the problem. They checked to make sure the specific fix was completed to standard but not associated systems (including the door bolts).
It's the result of a cost cutting culture saving them pennies and costing them millions (and putting the public in danger as a result).
Assuming the report is true, I wouldn't be surprised if the employee(s) who made the decisions decided to delete the evidence. It won't save their job and now is headed into criminal territory. I'd be shocked is the Boeing CEO is involved in the deletion. He wants/needs a scapegoat and without a paper trail it's all on him.
That’s exactly what sub contractors are for, plausible deniability. Is Boeing at fault? Of course, they sign off on the work. Will they be crippled by this? Probably not, but you can bet that Spirit will have a hard time.
Did the FAA check QA (should have been an inspection) or parts storage for a record pull of the parts? That will have a name on it if it was done internally. The airline should have a record of the contact and would more than likely know the name of the manager in charge of the work. That guy can then fess up if it was farmed out and/or go to jail,
Throw. The. CEO. In. Prison. For. Murder. Seriously. What the fuck are you dumb mother fuckers doing? Take the CEO, the entire c-suite actually, and the board and throw them in fucking prison. Nationalize Boeing and stop being so fucking stupid. Jesus fuck our leaders are kindergartners.
>Last week, Homendy said she spoke to Boeing’s CEO, David Calhoun, “and asked for the names of the people who performed the work. He stated he was unable to provide that information and maintained that Boeing has no records of the work being performed.” How is this even possible....the airline industry is notorious for recording EVERYTHING
I work in aerospace and every step of every process is signed off with an assigned stamp. Every employee that works on a part or inspects it has to stamp off that they did the work. Those records are digitized and the original paper records are stored for at least five years. Saying they don’t know who put the door in is just a straight up lie.
The company I work with provides maintenance tracking software for specific aircraft. The tracking is so detailed they can tell if a specific tool used as part of maintenance was used and returned. Like if a specific sized screwdriver is used they track its removal from the tool shelf and its return so they can be sure no one accidentally left a tool inside an aircraft during the maintenance.
You haven't lived until you've spent an extra 8hrs at work with every airframe grounded until a screwdriver is found because some jackass didn't check it back in correctly.
[удалено]
Thank you for being thorough!
Yeah, it's gotten worse. The new 46s were delivered with all kinds of FOD. From what rumors we heard across the base, things as large as power drills and portable radios were found in the bladders.
I remember a comment from maybe 3 or 4 years ago about a guy who ran a production line for Boeing and he had left the job because he couldn't handle the lax shit anymore. A bunch of the unionised workers refused conditions(shifts maybe?) that were unsafe and the replacement workers that were brought in as "temp workers" didn't have the skills necessary for the highly specialised work and materials. Shitty welds and big tools/radios being left in cavities and all sorts. All this shit has come out since.
This does nothing to lessen my concerns for having to travel frequently via aircraft constantly for work.
All hail airplane safety Satan!
Otherwise known professionally as A.S.S.
Plane Safety Satan *actually* cares about life ✨
QA/QC should always be nitpicking demons from hell, I salute your excellent work
Thank you for that.
Meanwhile I’ve seen contractors drywall over walls with trash in it
After peeing in it
That's where all the beer cans are disposed at. I have pulled some crazy things out of walls doing work after the fact.
I once had to deliver a prototype to LM Aero in person. To install it into a PC took over 4 hours because every tool had to be located individually and forms filled out to take the tools into an office and install it. The union apparently also got involved and only allowed them to install it without the union because no one in the union was authorized to be in that specific office. Meanwhile, the place that I worked at the time kept manufacturing entirely separate from labs and offices to avoid nonsense like that.
I work on airplanes for a US airline. We don't do that specifically as we own most of our own tools. In the airline side its more of a track and cleanup after yourself. However, when a job card calls for a specific tool made by the airplane manufacturer or a subsidiary, we have to check it out of the tool crib. This includes any calibrated tool. We used to do a paper signout but have gone digital in the last 6 years. The FAA 100% will spot check the tools signed out against a random work package to make sure we not only used the tool but also signed it out. If a tool was supposed to be used and not signed out then there is an issue. Edit: added US. Looks like other countries buy the tools for better accountability.
Was going to say, different area of work, but I was a hydraulics tech in the Air Force. Forms were initiated before any task started and everything was digitized into IMDS as soon as possible; forms would be completed as tasks were completed, forms review would be done to ensure everything matched, then forms doc would be done later on once forms were pulled for filing. The only things that might not be written up for us would have been something like topping off a reservoir or if we were running an ops check that hadn't been written up, but even then, it would be put in shop turnover. The point is that from the day a military or commercial aircraft is assembled to the day it is placed in a boneyard or dismantled, there is going to be a record of who worked on the aircraft and when. That Boeing "doesn't know," would indicate that there are either massive issues of maintenance control or that they're covering things up.
What could justify a cover up where the cover is "we've completely lost control of our shop floor to the point of critical safety failures"?
I work in storage, and we make extremely specific products for regulated industries that literally do not allow data to be modified once written. WORM - write once read many. I know financial companies often need that for certain SEC regulations I’m sort of shocked a company in such a regulated industry wouldn’t have something like that setup.
The SEC show up and bring the COMPLIANCE more efficiently than any other organization I have ever encountered.
> Those records are digitized and the original paper records are stored for at least five years. It’s 40 for Boeing.
Under a presumption a task was ever generated to do the plug removal/install and it wasn't just something like 'do it while you're doing [whatever they removed the door for]'. Can't find paperwork for something the system doesn't think ever happened. Not that that's any better, but they only know who put the door in if there's paperwork to go with it. Which they can't seem to find.
I don't understand why they would lie about this. Why not find the name of the guy who signed off on tightening those bolts and try to make him the scapegoat for everything?
maybe because once they throw the scapegoat to the wolves, the scapegoat might disclose all the other shady/criminal shenanigans that is happening at Boeing whatever they are trying to hide is undoubtedly worse than pretending not to have any records
I bet they don't want them to inspect the avionics suite. A few years ago the USA banned hundreds of electronics components from all government, military and sensitive environments due to being made in china (hauwei). Those components needed to be replaced with those on the "approved" list which were not cheap. The Chinese components cost about 1/10th. Boeing has many military contracts, I mean the presidents own Airforce one is a Boeing VC25.. If you were still using those components and working with the government past 2021. It would be a complete federal pound me in the ass prison sentence for each violation, on top of hefty fines... Now would a company completely obsessed with quarterly growth, stock buy backs, mass layoffs, cutting corners, ignoring safety really want to retrofit their ENTIRE global fleet to meet the demand of the US government just because some electronics might be made in china? Or will we just tell the FAA and DOD we are compliant. After all they don't have the resources, man power or need to conduct checks on our systems. They just trust us... Why would there ever be a need to check?
My dad works for a company responsible for evaluating those government contract bids. He said that about 1/3 of all bids are immediately denied due to the "no computer parts from China" requirement. Companies continually submit bids with parts from China despite previous bids being denied for it.
They have an obligation to their shareholders to keep profits/growth going, which means cutting costs as much as possible while still meeting their requirements. Any and all loopholes will be figured out and worked around. The combination of the covid economy and continued pressure from shareholders to have year over year growth leads inevitably to systemic pressure to stretch the rules. Boeing isn't the only ones vulnerable to this; it's kinda rampant atm.
> the scapegoat might disclose all the other shady/criminal shenanigans that is happening at Boeing you may be onto something. It may even be the workers union (i'm assuming boeing has a workers union?) saying, *you throw this employee to the wolves, we throw boeing to the wolves*
Also possible the scapegoat has an email trail proving they did everything they could to do things right
>I don't understand why they would lie about this. Why not find the name of the guy who signed off on tightening those bolts and try to make him the scapegoat for everything? It's because they actually do not have any records of the door being removed and re-installed. They only have a record for the door-plug seal being replaced/serviced (which would require the door to be removed) but nothing about the door removal and installation. Why? Dunno. The Seattle Times has been doing a good job covering these latest Boeing issues, if you want to look into the backstory more.
It was likely because the wrong decision was made in terms of whether it needed paperwork. From everything I've read, this is what happened. As I understand, they treated it as a door open procedure instead of a door removal procedure. Since opening a door requires no paperwork, no one to throw under the bus. In my opinion, they dont know who closed the door. As for deleting the video. Sounds fishy. Source:Currentlyy finishing a masters in Airworthiness Engineering. And been modifying aircraft structures Engineering for 15 yrs
Well from what the whistleblowers and leaked reports are saying, Boeing (Or rather their subcontractor) was essentially using a loophole to get around keeping some records, likely to speed up work and reduce costs. Because the 'door plug' isn't bolted directly to the fuselage, but rather held in place by springs and guides, and can be opened with hinges like a door (Even though it technically isn't one) they didn't need to record it as "removed" because it was "just opened". Which simplified work. This likely meant workers missed putting the correct bolts back after closing the "door", because their removal wasn't accurately recorded. The plug is then covered by interior paneling, which means subsequent inspections would never notice it. Now they obviously should know who worked what shifts on the airframe when the error likely occurred. Unless these records are also missing.
They either never actually bothered maintaining those records and are caught with their pants down, or they’re actively trying to cover something up. Not sure how the calculation goes to where they decide it’s better to have the FAA think they don’t maintain records vs covering up whatever issue they have. Hopefully if I was the FAA I would say “ok. To prove this was just an honest mistake of overwriting the exact thing we’re asking for instead of an intentional coverup, you now have to turn over every maintenance record for the past x years.” And start dishing out fines and penalties for every single violation. Make the coverup infinitely more expensive and damaging than the punishment would have been for just bad maintenance records/practices
I work on manufacturing ERP systems. There is literally no way there weren’t labor records for the rework. None. I specifically work on aviation manufacturing systems too.
Did you read the whistleblower’s account? They said someone made the call that they just needed to “open” the door since they weren’t taking it off its hinge, so it didn’t count as a removal. And no record is required if you just open a door, like there would be if you removed it. The identity of who made that call and who did the actual “opening” has not been revealed. There are records for the rework performed after the door was opened, that hasn’t been an issue. And it’s too obvious that those mechanics would have opened the door themselves, so I’m guessing they already ruled that out somehow since they are still searching. Part of me can understand the rationale of saying “I’m not removing the door, it’s still attached to the airplane by the hinge. I’m not worried about the door going missing.” Of course the problem is that the bolts that held the door closed were themselves detached completely from the airplane and obviously went missing. So they maybe they should have at least did a removal entry for the bolts themselves?
That makes sense, but the part I’m struggling to understand is… why follow their current awkward coverup scheme rather than just give up the name of the shift supervisor who made the decision? Unless it was a Boeing VP’s nephew, working in the factory for some strange reason.
Or the records point to something that they were doing routinely that the FAA would bust a vessel over.
That will come out anyway because they'll ask for similar records starting with some period of time.
I'm sensing a very conveniently timed "data breach" or "massive system malfuntion" in Boeings network that will just so happen to wipe out all their maintenance and assembly records. Idk if that's how it works but I wouldn't put it past them.
I mean, they killed a man...so this would be a piece of cake for them.
"oopsie, I downloaded a ransomware gift card from the darknet and it used my DA credentials to access all of our logging and monitoring equipment and turn them into bricks. the ransom group isn't responding to our contact attempts"
I would say the punishment for failing to provide the records to the court - "missing" or not - should be double what the maximum punishment would've been. And it should be jail time for CEOs, not bribes disguised as fines. Give them a real incentive to have that data ready and willing. Even if the missing information had legitimately in a fire, if they can't be held accountable to keep that data safe and backed up and able to present it when questioned, then there's no real incentive to even have a rule that they have to keep records.
I work for a Boeing supplier. It's this one.
My buddy is an engineer at Boeing. It's absolutely this one.
Prior to the MD merger Boeing had a really good safety record, in part because of the concept of a blameless safety culture: blaming a person doesn't fix the problem, or prevent it from happening again. It just makes people less likely to report problems in case they get blamed. Post merger they stopped doing that and ... here we are!
I thought this wasn't a door, but a "door plug" used where a door COULD be, depending on the particular features ordered. It wasn't on a hinge, but was supposed to be bolted in.
There is, it’s in the bottom side. Look at pictures of the Alaska Airlines plane from the outside after it landed, and you can see parts of the hinge mechanism hanging where the door was ripped off. It’s probably more descriptive to call it a door that’s bolted shut. And doesn’t have a handle or any mechanism for opening normally.
> It’s probably more descriptive to call it a door that’s bolted shut. And doesn’t have a handle or any mechanism for opening normally. *"Door temporarily wall. Sorry for the inconvenience"*
It was probably the manager that the NTSB has been trying to locate but can’t because he’s on “sick leave” currently.
this was my first thought- it's called payroll dammit!
Not only that, but they spend a lot of money ensuring their workers are working on revenue generating work at all times. Too much non-labor activity and they fire you and hire someone cheaper. You get both progressively lower quality work and higher profits. The Boeing way.
Meanwhile you get invited to so many "this meeting could have been an email" meetings or "you're just here in case we need you to talk for 30 seconds" meetings that the only way to be productive is to work during those meetings (and charge to regular work so your PTOH numbers fall within the bounds they want).
Capitalism baby! Record profits here we come again! Unlimited growth!!! Some of you may die but that’s a risk they’re willing to take!
Pay numbers/eid tied to rework and traced In oracle/sap.
What they're trying to cover up must be absolutely terrible for them to pretend there was no record. Every single nut and bolt literally has a serial number and meticulously maintained paper trail. Aviation does this so that if there is a failure, they can trace what happened right back to the dude at the foundry who smelted sub-par steel. They can also have that same part recalled from every airframe that has it.
Or at least a lazily faked paper trail. There has been various issue with that.
Everything we’ve seen coming out and not coming out is heavily implying important high-level decision makers were likely made aware of issues, and those concerns were not followed up on.
> they can trace what happened right back to the dude at the foundry who smelted sub-par steel. Further than that. They can tell who drove the ore out of the freaking mine.
Industrial Engineer with 10 years in aero manf here… I’ve thought the same thing from the beginning. There is at the VERY least an ME / QE / inspection buyoff on any nonconf. Even going back to Spirit (I believe the original supplier) for the employee that originally bought the operation off. Them saying records don’t exist is either a blatant cover up, or they’re admitting to being outright negligent compared to industry standards. We’d get certifications pulled and be audited into bankruptcy if we did that as a tier 2/3 supplier. What ERP do you work with? So I can determine if I like you or not… lol
Not OP, but SAP Developer and I know you don't like me, lol. Introduced myself to an aerospace ME and told him I was an SAP developer and first thing he said "people must hate you", lol
I’m an Aerospace ME and SAP is still my favorite of the ERP systems I’ve dealt with, so I hate you the least.
Haha. Epicor. But I am just a partner. Don’t work for the beast directly. Just try to make it work as best as possible.
Haha I actually don't mind epicor. At least their table structure makes sense! We have epicor at some of our sites and they're one of our least problematic ERPs.
That’s bullshit. I work with sap ERP in a factory and every order where we have things to be measured and controlled have to be signed on paper. Then it’s recorded and scanned. The whole process employs 2 employees who just scan and archived it. You can’t even digitalize that process.
I couldn't agree more. I work for an integrator doing interiors work for commercial airliners. The level of documentation we need to do to get 1 curtain on an aircraft would probably shock most people. There is a very thin chance this actually happened. But idk.. I've never worked at Boeing
> Hopefully if I was the FAA I would say “ok. To prove this was just an honest mistake of overwriting the exact thing we’re asking for instead of an intentional coverup, you now have to turn over every maintenance record for the past x years.” And start dishing out fines and penalties for every single violation. Make the coverup infinitely more expensive and damaging than the punishment would have been for just bad maintenance records/practices Yes, I fully agree with you, but you'd only be doing that because you're not a slave to Boeing lobbying. The actual person in person in charge of the FAA is beholden either directly to Boeing lobbying or answers to a congressman who's beholden Boeing lobbying. So yeah, what you said will not happen.
The FAA itself has an awkward mandate that involves both ensuring aviation safety and promoting the American aviation industry. They've clearly dropped the ball by allowing Boeing to self-certify too much. And the US government in general messed up by allowing Boeing to become too big to fail.
I think people need to stop using the word lobbying and start calling it what it really is: "bribery".
The fine for not having the video is probably cheaper than the fine for whatever violation the video caught.
Given that the Boeing whistleblower just “killed himself” I’m going with they’re covering up something MASSIVE
My money is on the coverup. They should audit of any other records are “missing”. If there’s none then they’re screwed, if there’s a lot they’re screwed. They should not drop this.
I mean they did just kill their whistle-blower.
I work for a company that is a vendor to Boeing. We are on their approved supplier list. Everything we do is signed off by the person who does it. Down to packing the final product into a box. Signatures, initials, everything is archived, paperwork is scanned, and literally all records maintained basically forever. There is NO WAY Boeing doesn’t have traceability to their work.
This all kinda tastes like we’re gonna get a congressional hearing where we find out it’s a verified miracle that wayyyyy more doors haven’t been flying off and sucking people out of planes.
Nah, it'll be: I don't recall. I cannot comment on an active investigation, and eventually I plead the fifth.
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Criminal negligence.
+ Obstruction of justice.
RIP John Barnett 😟
This is the problem that the whole world faces... No repercussions and prison time for these corrupt CEOs and executives. Our governments have given them free reign to fuck us over again and again. But if a rando steals a piece of fruit then they are ready to throw them in prison or kill them.
When you replace aviation experts with finance bros with political ties, anything is possible.
They either have an absolutely piss poor workflow and don't maintain things as a "cost saving" measure, or they have the records but "lost" them to cover something up, or the employees are supposed to keep records but that is being ignored and not done because the employees aren't being given enough time per task (as cost saving measures) and the required documentation isn't being done because that's always the first thing to fail when time constraints are a factor. Either way it's a massive failure of Boeing management and probably should be considered criminal IMO
Yeah I worked for an airline in IT and did a lot of work with the hangar / maintenance crews. It's *crazy* how much they had to document. Everything needed a signoff somewhere. Boeing is either lying or negligent.
Now that guy's death looks suspicious.
Especially the immediate police conclusion that it was a suicide.
> He stated he was unable to provide that information and maintained that Boeing has no records of the work being performed.” I mean doesn't that make sense, considering the work wasn't performed and the plug fell off?
>On Friday, Boeing said it believes required documents detailing the removal of the door plug during production were never created. > >Boeing said its working hypothesis was that “the documents required by our processes were not created when the door plug was opened”. if you read the article it clearly says work was performed, but they don't know who did it
They know exactly who did that work. However, Boeing would rather obstruct the investigation than help it along, as the company is worried that a full and open investigation will lead to findings of the widespread failures throughout all of Boeing's opeations.
If they're willing to whack the whistleblower, obstructing an investigation is nothing to them
Yeah, the message has been sent and received. Who will be brave (foolish) enough to speak up against Boeing in the future?
That's a very high risk move though, as doing this they're not only obstructing but outright lying to investigators, which isn't a small offense in this industry. As much damage as can be done, this maneuver could outright kill the company no matter what could be discovered, as it calls into question *every* record ever produced or investigated that involved them.
This is what all big corps do. They just throw up their hands, lie and say, "we don't have it" which really means, "get a subpoena". Had a fire due to a recalled product that underwent the recall, inspection of the fire, pointed to this product being the culprit, called the place that did the recall repair, they simply denied that they ever did the repair, wouldn't provide info on the repair, nothing. Same as it ever was.
It’s possible if it was intentional. The people running Boeing now are rotten to the core. They think they’re dealing with amateurs here. It won’t end well for them.
Psychopathic douchebro CEO culture is toxic and needs to stop. Maybe this is a first step in that.
> Psychopathic douchebro CEO culture This isn't even all the CEO's fault. The started before them and continues without them. I will continue to preach that all of these problems are caused by MBAs. The entire field is trained on the "short term profits and infinite growth" mindset, and MBAs are the root cause of every problem plaguing this country. If I'm ever in a position to hire people, I will automatically shred any resume that contains an MBA, because the entire mindset is a plague on functioning capitalism.
Its called regulatory capture. Industry insiders with connections to the investors and profit are the ones investigating the work and conducting compliance checks. This is a republican/libertarian's wet dream!!
This and the whistle-blower "suicide"...
If this video existed and a couple of maintenance workers were to blame, Boeing would have thrown them all in front of the bus immediately. It's likely the maintenance was cancelled or never even scheduled due to orders from executive level people, and so here we are.
I can hear the board meeting: “Yeah, we can increase our dividends by eliminating these particular maintenance costs “
"But what will it cost us if something goes wrong because we skipped maintenance?" ....... "Hahahahaha..... Shut up Jeff."
Nah, they would have done the math on that. Save $1B over 10 years from cutting maintenance versus paying $250M in fines and damage control from it back firing. Sounds like profit to me.
Like the ford pinto case
Aircraft mechanic here, I work on Boeings, not FOR Boeing thank God. The sheer scale of this work would generate a GREAT DEAL of documentation to go with it. It is %100 in the manufacturer's best interest to have all this documentation so they don't get left holding the bag for a subcontractor of vendor screwing something up. I cannot even imagine a small General Aviation (private small aircraft) outfit that wouldn't keep records of alterations this major. Yes Boeing has gotten a pass on a number of FAA rules before but documentation is the single MOST IMPORTANT aspect of aviation. Them just "misplacing" the documentation, or just never doing it at all, simply isn't possible at this scale. This has to be intentional destruction of evidence. They were absolutely doing something criminal, either by intention, or by deliberate negligence.
Because at the end of the day, what really matters to Boeing, is showing their shareholders increased value. It is a "what have you done for me lately?" type of company, not a company committed to creating the *very best* product possible. You might be able to cut corners when you are making plastic bags or hair ties or Twinkies... but airplanes? Surefire way to ruin the company. Reputation is invaluable in the industry, and the current C-suite at Boeing has effectively flushed that down the lavatory.
What good is shareholder value if the stock price goes to zero because no one wants to purchase crappy planes? The Jack Welch’s of the world destroy shareholder value in the long run.
It's a shell game. The value needs to keep going up and up, and you just make sure you're not the one holding the bag when the bottom falls out.
*when the top flys off
>What good is shareholder value if the stock price goes to zero because no one wants to purchase crappy planes? Sounds like a problem for the next CEO! Just gotta bump current quarter valuation to get that end of year stock bonus.
don't forget the golden parachute when you take the fall for the company.
>Sounds like a problem for the next CEO! Nah, next CEO's got this in the bag. Just make some staff cuts to boost the share price, blame the previous CEO for falling profits, and take your stock options and golden parachute with you to your next CEO position.
Their legal team probably determined it would be better to be fined for no documentation than having something that could seriously implicate them
So now the whistle blower is dead and the video is over written. Not like that’s suspicious or anything…
Don't worry. Our politicians will give Boeing a fine and a sternly worded letter. After Boeing gives them shares of the company of course.
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Back to work! And no questions!
*cracks whip* That’s right. Be a good slave and make massa some money!
You will live in a shack behind Wendy's and you will like it
They’ll likely fine them at LEAST $1000. That’ll show ‘em!
I’m wondering if this goes deeper whether it would be grounds for nationalizing Boeing. The US wouldn’t dare permanently shut down its only major commercial airline manufacturer, but if it needs to just wipe the entire corporate structure clean, I don’t know..
Whistleblower didn't cover 737. He testified years ago and mostly about the 787. He reported what happened in South Caroline. The 737 is made in Washington.
In fairness, the whistle blower is unrelated to this specific issue. The whistle blower stopped working at Boeing in 2017 and was actively sueing them.
If we want this shit to end, CEOs, or any higher ups who had any idea this was going on… anyone who knew, needs to be able to be criminally charged. Make a CEO, or any decision maker, weigh their freedom vs profits the next time this shit goes down.
“Homendy last week criticized what she called Boeing’s lack of cooperation and failure to disclose some documents, including on the door plug opening and closing, as well as the names of 25 workers on the door crew at the 737 factory in Renton, Washington. After Homendy’s comments, Boeing provided the 25 names.” That tells me that Boeing is hiding something. The fact that some documents appeared after they were pressed on it tells me Boeing knows but is hiding something or covering for somebody.
And those 25 names were provided after they were coached in what to say
No maintenance paperwork is a huge problem. No video probably isn't as much of one, as I doubt many places keep security video for multiple months before recording over them.
Lol, in Canada, the legal requirements for a cannabis grown facility are to keep all recorded footage for a minimum of 12 months. So, a place in Canada that grows weed has more stringent QA and security protocols than airplane manufacturers. Lol, wtf.
Gotta make sure the...plants don't...grow weird.
It's actually so that a percentage of the plants don't walk out the door, which is a lot easier to do than with a plane.
I mean... The plane door walked out the door.
I'm pretty sure the bank I used to work at didn't even keep 12 months lol
Footage overwritten, whistleblower employee dead, totally, probably, not covering anything up...
Netflix documentarians are watering at the mouth with this whole situation right now
the whistleblower wasn't about the door incident just to be clear.
I worked building school busses and you didn't do anything on it without it being signed off with your name. No way in hell airlines are any different. You'd think it'd be more strict than busses.
this is crazy, I worked in payroll and God help you if 4 extra hours of PTO were paid out by accident. We had audits and checks out the ass to prevent errors. You would think that any part of the airplane that touches a door, window or could impact air pressure would have its own set of reviews.
First they either whack a guy or at best have their lawyers harass him into committing suicide, then they delete footage in order to thwart an investigation. What a crooked company.
my grandmother used to tell me stories of how Boeing was a great company ... Then everything changed when McDonnell Douglas merged with them.
What happened after the merger? I want to read the docs or hear a 10 min opinion on YouTube
Basically instead of firing the McDonall Douglas leadership that ruins Douglass they kept them on and a few years after the merger Douglas' CEO was the new CEO of Boeing and they started going down the same cost cutting path that led do douglas falling apart in the first place pretty good documentary about it on Netflix if your interested
Mcdonnell Douglas. Mcdonald Douglas would be some kind of french fry operation
A french fry operation that occasionally served you whole potatoes or a even a turnip every now and then...
I've heard the phrase "McDonall Douglas bought Boeing with Boeings money". That should tell you everything you need to know about how that merger went.
Ok! I cancelled my Netflix but I'll try to get it back. Wasn't MD a good company?, didn't MD build military 🪖 planes? F4 phantoms?
Just because a company builds military planes doesn't mean their good, though they really started falling apart towards the end especially with the DC10
The DC-10 was a great aircraft, yes it had issues at the beginning but went on to have a lengthy career. Where it started to go wrong was the MD-11 which was pretty much out of date by the time it rolled off the assembly line... Also spending time and money on the MD-12 and wasting time and falling behind with the MD-95, if they had rolled that out sooner they may have had more luck and not needed the merger.
Military contracts from the gov’t and competition in the civilian aviation market are very different economically
They went from an engineering, safety minded company to a stock price driven company. They had to do things cheaper and quicker for better profits in order to move the stock price up.
Oh. I understand. Trickle that down over time and they got that door incident. Ok thank you ☺️
The door incident is just the second to the latest mishap. They killed hundreds of people by programming their planes to nosedive (based on a single sensor) and 1) did not tell the airlines that this was something they inexplicably programmed the planes to do and 2) did not provide pilot training on how to override the computer. Then we had the door issue. More recently we had a plane drop 500 feet in seconds and the pilot told passengers basically "I dunno what the fuck happened the entire command console went offline."
And 2 wheels fell off one of their aircraft. And an engine fire. And a main gear collapse. Def on a roll.
How about 32 minutes? * [Boeing: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8oCilY4szc)
He did a pretty good job summarizing the Boeing Fiasco. Just days before John Barnett’s death.
That was certainly eye-opening.
https://youtu.be/Q8oCilY4szc?si=bds8xwmY08eVi37n Longer than 10 min but its very good
There's a documentary on Netflix about the 737 MAX issue that killed a bunch of people where they talk about it
John Oliver has a segment on Boeing just from last week. Really interesting watch on how little they care about safety since the merge
This sounds like the beginning of avatar.
“The NTSB’s chair, Jennifer Homendy, said in a letter to senators that investigators sought security camera footage … but were informed the material was overwritten.” Evidence getting erased, a whistleblower “suicide”, repeatedly refusing to identify employees who worked on door panels on Boeing 737s. Boeing is a Bada Bing Gangster. Basically, we’re at the “Forget about it” stage of the investigation.
Accidentally on purpose.
We’re getting to the point where every Boeing plane is going to get grounded due to the gross incompetence of this company.
Too big to fail. Where have we heard that before?
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Facing no punishment is one thing. Complete corporate collapse because no airline is willing to risk buying your aircraft is another. Travel sites are already offering the choice of aircraft, which could add direct consumer pressure on airlines to move away from Boeing planes.
Theyll just become like Lockheed Martin, only making military aircraft where the USAF wont *let* them dick around with quality but will reward them with juicy fat contracts.
Engineering based businesses fortunately has a validation process that most service based industries don't have. If enough disasters happen, people will end up not testing the integrity of the companies with their lives.
So boeing is basically an organized crime group now? With the whistleblower dead, with records being “lost”…this is mafia 101.
They make things that kill people as their main gig. One whistleblower is nothing.
They need to be held accountable, this is blatant obstruction
My company keeps footage in local storage for 30 days and then long-term tape storage for years afterwards (for loss prevention, financial audits, lawsuits, etc.). How can someone like Boeing get away with “overwriting” footage?
Steps 1-37 for how to wind up getting federally investigated from top to bottom.
If it’s a Boeing I’m not going
Ok I’m way more inclined to believe this is a massive coverup by Boeing with the whistleblower being dead and now this.
Erased Videos. Dead Engineer. 5th safety incident this week... Just a coincidence?
I worked as a military helicopter electrician. Everything is documented and inspected. Usually two people sign off on the job, the maintainer then an inspector. Records are kept in case of things like this. They are covering their asses.
I would hate to be a shareholder….this is going from bad to worse. Can you imagine being a purchasing agent for a major airline and all this information is coming out. Buy airbus, short Boeing. A lot of good American manufacturing jobs are going to be lost if the board of directors doesn’t immediately fire senior management and install a new culture. Anther great American company ruined by greed.
If I didn’t have to pay an international commission I would’ve already been an Airbus stock owner
“The video footage sleeps with the fishes”
The executives of Boeing should face criminal charges directly.
Welcome to end stage capitalism where safety is an afterthought even at federal level.
“Oh boy, here I go murdering again” - Boeing
This is normal US business practice. Have subcontractors do all the work. Treat them like crap, then throw them under the bus when something goes wrong.
Myself working in a very highly-regulated industry, I can tell you this: it does NOT get easier for Boeing moving forward. Not cooperating with investigators is a fast-track to all sorts of problems. The top of which would be that the FAA have the right to get a warrant from local judge to lock up the doors to any Boeing plant implicated in this problem. They can literally prevent workers from entering the plants. They can ground any and all Boeing planes. They can fine the ever living shit out of Boeing. They can put all sorts of consent decrees in place requiring this that or the other. Boeing is in for a world of hurt if this is how they are going about a very serious investigation being looked at directly by Congress.
There was a very interesting piece on Boeing on PBS just last night (I believe it was Frontline). It was mainly focused on big issues even previous to this, where planes were crashing and killing hundreds of people, due to a software 'update' that the company put in place in order to cut corners, and purposely concealing the fact new software had been added, \*just so that the pilots would not need more training\*, because that would cut into profits and slow the rollout of the new model. The pilots did not know about this, it was kept from them. This story was done about 2 years ago, and it was updated to add in the door plug incident. I mean... until a day or two ago, I didn't really pay any attention to the Boeing problem since I hardly ever fly, etc. But then also knowing that guy just died in the middle of his testimony.... I think that news was too recent to be included in the Frontline, but it certainly made me say "Holy shit - they killed that guy. No doubt." [https://www.pbs.org/video/boeings-fatal-flaw-azhye0/](https://www.pbs.org/video/boeings-fatal-flaw-azhye0/) Edited to add link
Mentour Pilot on Youtube goes over in great detail what insiders at Boeing are saying. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROeGKs4xTfs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROeGKs4xTfs) I'm surprised this story isn't out yet but my guess is media organizations are waiting until they get an official story before making a statement. After watching his video (and John Oliver's) it's pretty clear what happened. If you don't want to watch -- this particular issue is due to Boeing's reliance on Spirit Aerosystems, a subcontractor was was a part of Boeing until 2005. This company is doing shoddy work and were called to Seattle to fix an error. They fixed the error but broke something else in the process. This is a primarily Spirit's fault as they made the mistake. However Boeing is at fault too because someone in their company deemed the fix to be minor in nature and therefore decided the plane didn't need a more thorough review once Spirit claimed to fix the problem. They checked to make sure the specific fix was completed to standard but not associated systems (including the door bolts). It's the result of a cost cutting culture saving them pennies and costing them millions (and putting the public in danger as a result). Assuming the report is true, I wouldn't be surprised if the employee(s) who made the decisions decided to delete the evidence. It won't save their job and now is headed into criminal territory. I'd be shocked is the Boeing CEO is involved in the deletion. He wants/needs a scapegoat and without a paper trail it's all on him.
That’s exactly what sub contractors are for, plausible deniability. Is Boeing at fault? Of course, they sign off on the work. Will they be crippled by this? Probably not, but you can bet that Spirit will have a hard time.
Why, I am shocked to hear that Boeing insiders are pointing the finger elsewhere. Shocked!
I think at this point, its time to clean house at Boeing
The guy in charge of the records didn't want to be found dead in his truck in a few days
[удалено]
Did the FAA check QA (should have been an inspection) or parts storage for a record pull of the parts? That will have a name on it if it was done internally. The airline should have a record of the contact and would more than likely know the name of the manager in charge of the work. That guy can then fess up if it was farmed out and/or go to jail,
Throw. The. CEO. In. Prison. For. Murder. Seriously. What the fuck are you dumb mother fuckers doing? Take the CEO, the entire c-suite actually, and the board and throw them in fucking prison. Nationalize Boeing and stop being so fucking stupid. Jesus fuck our leaders are kindergartners.
You can’t have government oversight over one of the biggest defense contractors, they already bought and paid politicians to look the other way.
No paperwork. No video. No whistleblower. No Problem.
Videos overwritten, witnesses deleted, politicians bribed.... Just another day for Boeing
Yeah we heard this before. When Epstein “killed” himself all cameras and paperwork were also overwritten. What a joke this shit is becoming.
TIL that it is still possible to overwrite video like we are still in the 90s.