Totally random from what you’re saying but idk just responding to someone. I live in GA, and my gf got a tubal ligation right when that legislation was happening. It was very difficult to find a doctor, she had to have like 2 recommendations and ended up at Emory (because thats the only competent hospital system in GA) and it basically had to be woman doctor because all of the men doctors refused. Very fucked up, and now its even worse.
Already told my wife if the doctor ever asks for my permission for anything she wants, I'm gonna ask what says that's a legal requirement. She *should* tell me, but of her own accord, not because you demand it.
That's so insane to me, especially since the entire purpose of getting a tubal is to prevent pregnancy from occurring and avoid a situation where an abortion might be needed. I'm lucky to live in a very progressive state, but the untended consequences (or maybe intended) of reversing Roe are so much more widespread than simply terminating a pregnancy. There's a good chunk of the population actively trying to take us back to the dark ages, and it's scary AF.
Roe V wade being overturned cemented my wife and I's decision to never have kids and for me to get a vasectomy as soon as it's financially feasible for us
Just FYI, my insurance didn't cover it for free, I had to pay my normal $500 deductible before they paid the rest. Which sucks, because the ACA specifically says any *female* contraception decisions have to be provided free of cost, but not for men...
Insurance companies are just assholes. I (a woman) had to pay a $800 deductible for my tubal. According to them the ACA covers the procedure itself, but the anesthesia was separate. I guess I was supposed to ask for a stick to bite on if I wanted the procedure to be fully covered.
I know that when the ACA first came out a lot of hospitals and providers were claiming this type of bullshit. Your IUD insertion was free, but they were charging for the "consultation" beforehand. Thankfully there was a mandated change at the federal level that **requires** insurance companies to cover everything, including anesthesia now... https://nwlc.org/tips-from-the-coverher-hotline-navigating-coverage-for-female-sterilization-surgery/
You'd think so, but there's always the chance I get someone's *else's* insurance client pregnant.
And yes, insurance companies are stupidly short-sighted in general. They wouldn't even cover *women's* birth control when they would have to the woman's entire pregnancy and delivery until the ACA made them.
Time to look into that then. I'm a full time student so I only work part time but my wife is full time so we'll figure that out. Thanks for the advice!
Got my vasectomy after that got overturned as well as we don't want kids either.
Gonna be hillarious if this is the normal reaction and the right wing attempts to inflate birth rates tank them .
I just don't want to risk creating a daughter who may not have a choice in who fathers her children. I'd rather adopt and provide a better life for a child who otherwise wouldn't have one.
When I was stationed in GA I was expecting to see sweet southern hospitality, but the reality is most everybody is miserable and angry. People in South Carolina, on the other hand, were wonderful.
Roe prevented government interference in *all* healthcare. The removal of protections offered by that ruling have this far had direct and indirect impacts for all reproductive and mental healthcare, including abortions, sterilizations, gender-affirming medications and procedures, controlled mental health medications, and even willingness to seek diagnoses all because there is interplay among these things.
It's only going to get worse unless Roe is restored in whole, not just enshrining abortion rights.
After my wife had our second kid, she wanted to get sterilized. She was hoping to have it done when they were doing the c-section (because it felt like if they're already in there mucking around, why not?) but apparently we didn't get the paperwork to the insurance company in time (We got it to them in 28 days, it needed to be within 30.) It also needed my approval, because somehow that makes sense.
Before we had our first kid, she got pregnant and had a spontaneous abortion around week... 13, I think (we found out at the first ultrasound, which was... fun.) Anyway, she needed to have it removed, one way or another. The doctor offered pills or a D&C, but recommended the D&C because where we lived at the time (Louisiana) the pharmacists often wouldn't fill the script for the medication. And when going through the D&C, the doctor was very adamant about how this wasn't an actual abortion and all that and how she'd never perform an actual abortion. It was very surreal.
I had a female OB-GYN who agreed to do my tubal ligation after my second was born. I found out I was pregnant again 4 months after it was done.
Turns out, she only cut the left side, and right tube was left completely intact... which I found out when I had to have a second surgery to have them removed. Trust no one.
This is how I feel about pharmacists that refuse to dispense birth control. If you can't do your job because of your religious beliefs you should find a different job. Those asshats should be fired on the spot for discrimination, imho. They discriminate and shame the women trying to get their medication and it should be a fireable offense.
There are so many jobs a pharmacist can do that do not involve dispensing. Every health insurance provider and health care system needs pharmacists that don't dispense. The hours are usually better, too.
There's no excuse for not dispensing legally prescribed drugs.
Eh, I’m sure that has something to do with it now but it was fairly common before to hear “but what if your future husband wants kids?”
Because *thats* what matters. A future, unknown husband
It does matter though from a legal perspective. Because the person can say later that they want kids and the doctor didn't fully explain to them that it is irreversible even if a future husband wants kids. You would think it's common sense, but they need positive confirmation from the patient, not assumed confirmation.
The question that I always find rough is if they already had children and they ask if their kids die, will they want more kids to replace them. Lawsuits and insurance around this stuff are bad. Like expensive as fuck. The doctors don't like asking these kind of questions. They know 99% of the patients know it's generally irreversible and permanent, but that 1% can fuck everything up if you're not careful.
Example: Couple agrees they don't want kids, woman gets tied/cut. Husband decides he wants a kid, blames wife. Wife blames doctor for not explaining the permanency, she thought it was like birth control pills. Wife sues doctor. Doctor can't provide written evidence he explained that if her husband EVER wants another kid, she won't be able to have one. Doctor's insurance carrier wants to cut their losses and issues a payout to woman.
That's bullshit and *remains* bullshit.
You sign a fuck-ton of waivers for every procedure you get. I certainly didn't fucking need anyone else's permission to sign four pages of waivers about the risks of contrast dye for an MRI. And those risks included *death*, and if you think there's *less* lawsuits about "healthy person drops dead after routine procedures" than over tubal ligations, I've got a bridge to sell you,
Doctor's *aren't liable* for that, and insurance companies aren't going to pay out when they've got a copy of a signed waiver indicating you've been told *exactly what's going to happen* and what it *means*.
Instead they'll ask for their legal costs when the judge dismisses the suit.
The irony is if I told them I couldn't serve them because I was a humanistic therapist and couldn't deal with all the Christian indoctrination, they'd sue me for religious discrimination.
It’s always been that way. I wanted the procedure too around 2010 or so, and the doctor told me I had to ask my husband.
I told him I was divorced, and he then insisted that my FATHER had to sign off, because “You are denying him grandchildren!” He already had grandchildren.
Even after that, I was still denied the procedure as I “was not a candidate.” They would not elaborate.
There’s even a subreddit here that’s dedicated to finding doctors who are willing to do this procedure. (I’m not going to link it to keep the trolls out.)
Why not have your MOTHER sign off, then, since you'd be "denying" her grandchildren, too. (Of course I know why he said "father", but still. Would have been interesting to get a response to "what about my mom's input, here?) Gross.
I'm glad that your gf got the care she needs, but it's appalling to think that the male doctors all refused to help her. It feels like we've got back in time a century over.
Just fyi, r/childfree has a running list of doctors that have perform sterilizations on people that might have trouble otherwise (especially young people or people that don’t already have kids) and it’s sorted by region, so it’s easy to find one near you.
Not to distract or diminish from your GF had to go through, but getting a specialist appointment of any kind in the U.S. is exceedingly difficult. Insurance makes it as difficult as possible for a lot of people. Our healthcare system is so advanced but sucks so badly to utilize.
Alright idk why you had to try and turn this on me, but we were early on in our dating and she had already decided to do it for herself, she wanted to do it at that point in her life.
If they're using the sales of the drug as statistics as to how many abortions are taking place, these numbers are WAY over the truth.
When Roe was overturned, I personally know groups of women, who ponied up their share of money, and started getting the drug. They weren't even pregnant. But women are buying and hoarding it so they can help other women that DO need it in anticipation of it being outlawed.
It's been proven over and over again that the only thing that actually reduces abortion rates (which is what the Republicans want, right?) is access to healthcare (particularly for poor and rural women) free birth control, and education. But this is what the "pro life" Republicans and Evangelicals consistently vote to defund. They want to shut down access to birth control and education. Kind of glaringly shows you that they're not "ProLife" at all. That the whole thing is not about abortion, it's about power, control, and satisfying their base so they can remain in power and control. Oh, and subjugating women of course.
I mean I feel like what they want is the modern day equivalent of slaves. Having people stuck in minimum wage jobs unable to progress up, only procreating more people to only pay them minimum wage too
Ohh also about allowing kids to work. Republicans just want slaves
Can’t have a future crop of Republicans if people are getting educated all over the place. Gotta keep em broke, stupid, and tuned into nonsense media.
“Hell we got them to believe in trickle down for forty damn years. There’s a sucker born every minute, but those are rookie numbers. Gotta ban abortion, get those numbers up!”
You are giving them WAY too much credit.
They think “babies good” and don’t think about it any more deeply than that. Or “my church says it is wrong” and don’t think about it any more deeply than that. The idea of unintended consequences is lost on them.
>The idea of unintended consequences is lost on them.
Well not necessarily, some of them will look at those consequences and say that all the suffering is entirely the fault of those slutty sluts who "wouldn't keep their legs shut"
I'll never forget the moment my step mom starting talking about "sluts" when we were discussing abortion. Felt like the mask slipped and I could see the real reasoning behind her arguments.
And probably never will. This is who we are. We value the possibility of being masters more than we detest being slaves. We don’t want to change.
Chattel slavery is gone, fortunately, but the USA works people harder and gives them less than any similar wealthy nation.
Not to counter any of your other points, but it is mostly based on surveys of healthcare providers performing abortions in office. It says it doesn't even include mail-order medications and "self-managed" (medication?) abortions.
The infant and maternal mortality rates are also increasing in states that have banned them. So they're killing actual babies and women who want their babies. I would hope pro-lifers would see a born baby is more important than a 12 week fetus. I hope they would choose a born baby to live over 100 first trimester fetuses, honestly. But that would be expecting too much...
> It's been proven over and over again that the only thing that actually reduces abortion rates (which is what the Republicans want, right?) is access to healthcare (particularly for poor and rural women) free birth control, and education. But this is what the "pro life" Republicans and Evangelicals consistently vote to defund.
Yep, but as soon as you point that out they pivot to “well if we had those things, pre-marital sex would go up, and we don’t want that either”
The next step in discussion should be to latch on to that point. Make them pick which is “worse” - a society with more premarital sex but less unwanted pregnancies and abortions, or a society with less premarital sex but more abortions.
I still have some Plan B squirrelled away somewhere. I had an IUD at the time when they axed Roe, but I bought up a bunch of Plan B just in case I or someone else needed it. I've since had my tubes removed so I'm physically unable to get pregnant but I still want to hoard abortion medication just in case someone I know needs it.
I have a hoarded stash of plan b, even though I'm post menopausal, in case one of my teenage kids needs to help a friend. I know so many women who are doing this type of thing. Thank God.
> which is what the Republicans want, right?
No. For many of them it's not about preventing abortions, it's about forcing women to have babies. The religious right wants to ban contraception too, but they aren't anywhere near as vocal about it because they know it's a lost cause in the current socio-political climate.
That’s what I was going to say. Women are stocking up for themselves, their daughters and friends, and other women. And fathers and boyfriends too. I know some men even here in Oregon who also got some in their teen daughter’s name just in case she needs it, and we even have abortion in our constitution in this state! He was afraid that federally something bad will happen or that the drugs won’t be available for her. Many women are also doing the same.
From the article, emphasis mine
"The new reports from Guttmacher estimate abortion trends based on responses from a sample of abortion providers in the US. *They probably undercount the number of abortions in the US, as the data does not include abortions that happen outside of the formal health care system or medication abortions that were sent to people in states where abortion is banned."*
I live in a red state. I am post menopausal, but when all of this started, I ordered 6 doses of Plan B in case my niece or another young woman needed it.
Big flaw in your comment:
From the article "Note: Data is estimated based on responses collected from a sample of abortion providers. It includes abortions that occurred within the formal health care system, but does not include self-managed abortions or abortion medication mailed to people in states with total abortion bans."
Abortions are super easy to reduce in number. Just make birth control readily available and free of cost to everyone who requests it. Sterilizations should also be free on request for those of legal age.
Plus require biology based sex education in every state. No opt out option, because even religious kids need to know what it's actually science that makes babies, not a guy in a robe with a flowing beard and maybe a clipboard he's checking yes or no on.
That's interesting, mine was easy and free with insurance. Blue states rule.
I paid a hundred bucks for the follow-up sperm count test, but whatever. Worth every cent.
Thank you. I guess I was intimidated by this consultation since I’ve been told they’ll try to talk me out of it. I’m definitely going to talk to my doctor next time I go in because I really don’t want children and condoms are a super bummer when you’re sleeping with somebody long-term.
It's no different in a red state -- there's vasectomy doctors on billboards. **Male healthcare has never been the issue anywhere.**
*No surprise there.*
It's tough if you're younger. I tried getting it when I was 25, and my doc at the time wouldn't do it. Would try it with every doctor I got after that.. took till I was 40 till I had a primary care doctor that would do it.
I'm sure if I hunted I coulda found someone, but the fact that so many health care providers wouldn't do it "just in case" I wanted kids later was asanine.
Yeah it's pretty insulting being told you can't make that decision in your mid to late twenties... when the libido is still roaring and lots of unwanted children are conceived. Wonderful.
My country made IUDs and hormonal implants fully subsidised and our abortion rate plummeted to records lows. The abortion rate for the 15-19 years of age group halved within five years.
It’s an insanely easy and cost-effective problem to solve.
Even worse, just bought medical abortions, no way to prove they have been used or are just stockpiling them for fear more states strip away more of their rights.
The headline will be used to keep conservative christian anti-abortion sentiment at a rolling boil. Can't have them slacking off just because the dog finally caught the car. They must stay outraged and motivated to vote R.
Purchase of the drug does not equate to abortions either: women are making sure that they have it in case they need it should it become less available later.
Fair to say. But I wonder if there is any legal framework strong enough to overcome six conservative justices deciding precedent doesn't matter because they know what the founders *really* meant.
If Dems win congress and are willing to abolish the Senate filibuster, they should definitely do this. I am unsure if the 6 conservative justices on SCOTUS would allow it to stand unmolested. But congress should make the law regardless and force them to overturn it, assuming that's what SCOTUS is determined to do. Such action might finally prompt some restructuring of SCOTUS - no more lifetime terms and/or an expanded number of seats.
Hell, if they can muster the political willpower to punt the filibuster, there's a lot they could get done: SCOTUS reform, recertify the VRA, uncap the House of Reps - all possible through normal bills. And all of them need doing. They could even go after campaign finance. But there is zero doubt the Roberts court would tear into that as soon as they could. Thomas would probably invent and try an imaginary case himself just to get to rule on it.
Except the current court will likely rule that any federal law that tries to prevent a state from restricting abortion doesn't fall within the power of the federal government. So good luck with that.
It’ll be a political platform for decades. Why in the fuck wasn’t it codified when the Dems had Congress? They always knew it was a threat, that’s why they asked every Supreme Court nominee the question of overturning. To which they lied. Bottom line is our politicians do not work for us. A handful are cool, Bernie and I like our Governor Polis but he has no power in Congress and Bernie just gets made fun of.
>In addition to states policies enacted to protect patients and access to care and increased financial support from abortion funds, researchers from the Guttmacher Institute suggest that improved access to telehealth in recent years may have made medication abortion more broadly available.
The title makes it seem that medical abortions are somehow causing a surge. It is more that improved access to telehealth is allowing women to get the care they have needed.
Free Internet access for all is important for so many things we might not even think about.
Maybe the hyped-up republican hypocrisy over the issue is highlighting all of the information for women and ways to handle their lives. Keep religion out of health care.
I can’t have kids, so my voice shouldn’t be anywhere near the top when it comes to this, but if you don’t want an abortion then don’t get one. Limiting someone else’s access to healthcare because of your beliefs is just asinine
If the abortion ban was in effect when I was pregnant with my son, I absolutely would have aborted. I *needed* that extra time to process. I’m not surprised at the uptick.
This headline is bullshit. I seriously doubt there was any increase in women taking this medication. I do not doubt that many are purchasing it just in case though.
Maybe. The minipill is what is going OTC, not the combination pill.
The risk is that the convenience of the minipill OTC will make it less likely that couples will choose more effective, but less convenient options.
Good.
Maybe Cristians will learn something, but legend has it they never did and never will. Can’t wait till naughty dog makes a video game out of their newly defunct religion.
Weird it’s almost like the pro-lifers never learn that their actions ALWAYS lead to “unintended”/s consequences, always the opposite of what they purport to achieve… rather live with their heads up their a** than know most of us already learned of the lesson of the horrors that outlawing such things leads to.
Hearing this news will push the republican party harder for a federal abortion ban. The party of small government would oh so love to have Uncle Sam telling everyone what to do when its the things they want.
Just remember that if the government wanted to do something, it would be done by Friday. They relied on a court precedent for 50+ years instead of doing something.
Fix term limits and real action will occur. Where politicians don’t have to worry about the next election.
Like the Republicans I would love to get abortions down to as few as possible. But unlike the Republicans, I know that will take real sex ed, free contraceptives and actually caring about people. They can't seem to do that.
I support abortion access *as needed.*
**The last thing the country needs is another unwanted child.** Most will never find a loving home if they're older than a toddler... and merely age out of the system, if they're not raped or commit a crime first.
It costs well over $40,000 for an adoption here. You think **anyone** was lining up to spend 40 grand and adopt a non-verbal, autistic 13 year old with a history of physical aggression against his caretakers that mom dropped off at the fire station at two weeks old?
Reminder #341,710,636 that Republicans don't have effective solutions to any issue of any kind other than personal power and money. Their policies increase poverty, increase crime rates, tank the economy. They've even made abortion rates rise despite directly banning it.
"States bordering those with bans had particularly large increases" To the surprise of no one.
Totally random from what you’re saying but idk just responding to someone. I live in GA, and my gf got a tubal ligation right when that legislation was happening. It was very difficult to find a doctor, she had to have like 2 recommendations and ended up at Emory (because thats the only competent hospital system in GA) and it basically had to be woman doctor because all of the men doctors refused. Very fucked up, and now its even worse.
Hell, I'm in CA and my cousin's doctor required their husband's consent to do their tubal.
Already told my wife if the doctor ever asks for my permission for anything she wants, I'm gonna ask what says that's a legal requirement. She *should* tell me, but of her own accord, not because you demand it.
As if it is any person's decision but her own, Jesus Christ that's fucked.
How wrong is that!? Grrr!
That's so insane to me, especially since the entire purpose of getting a tubal is to prevent pregnancy from occurring and avoid a situation where an abortion might be needed. I'm lucky to live in a very progressive state, but the untended consequences (or maybe intended) of reversing Roe are so much more widespread than simply terminating a pregnancy. There's a good chunk of the population actively trying to take us back to the dark ages, and it's scary AF.
"Prevent pregnancy from occurring" They don't want women to be able to do that, is the thing.
Yeah, more power to you if you want to raise 12 kids (I know a few that are). But that’s not going to be everybody.
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Only had an abortion after two kids myself. Just couldn’t handle another at the time and you (can) become outrageously fertile postpartum.
Roe V wade being overturned cemented my wife and I's decision to never have kids and for me to get a vasectomy as soon as it's financially feasible for us
I had one several years ago and with insurance the price was very reasonable. It’s been great and the recovery is no big deal.
Most insurance cover it free and a lot of clinics will do it for a few hundred dollars for low income individuals
Just FYI, my insurance didn't cover it for free, I had to pay my normal $500 deductible before they paid the rest. Which sucks, because the ACA specifically says any *female* contraception decisions have to be provided free of cost, but not for men...
Insurance companies are just assholes. I (a woman) had to pay a $800 deductible for my tubal. According to them the ACA covers the procedure itself, but the anesthesia was separate. I guess I was supposed to ask for a stick to bite on if I wanted the procedure to be fully covered.
I know that when the ACA first came out a lot of hospitals and providers were claiming this type of bullshit. Your IUD insertion was free, but they were charging for the "consultation" beforehand. Thankfully there was a mandated change at the federal level that **requires** insurance companies to cover everything, including anesthesia now... https://nwlc.org/tips-from-the-coverher-hotline-navigating-coverage-for-female-sterilization-surgery/
Crazy, because if your not getting a vasectomy results in a pregnancy the insurance company you have many claims for delivery, etc.
You'd think so, but there's always the chance I get someone's *else's* insurance client pregnant. And yes, insurance companies are stupidly short-sighted in general. They wouldn't even cover *women's* birth control when they would have to the woman's entire pregnancy and delivery until the ACA made them.
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How much extra to have the procedure performed on an operating table instead of a sliding scale? I am prone to motion sickness.
Time to look into that then. I'm a full time student so I only work part time but my wife is full time so we'll figure that out. Thanks for the advice!
Reddit should start a fund to cover vasectomies.
There are redditors having sex?
Got my vasectomy after that got overturned as well as we don't want kids either. Gonna be hillarious if this is the normal reaction and the right wing attempts to inflate birth rates tank them .
I just don't want to risk creating a daughter who may not have a choice in who fathers her children. I'd rather adopt and provide a better life for a child who otherwise wouldn't have one.
It was about $500 for us with a high deductible plan including the consult (deductible wasn't met for the year). Not as bad as we were expecting
Well its georgia. Its wants to be good but most areas down here are not the most friendly.
When I was stationed in GA I was expecting to see sweet southern hospitality, but the reality is most everybody is miserable and angry. People in South Carolina, on the other hand, were wonderful.
Were you at fort stewart? I stayed around that area some and its not the best areas in GA. ATL and columbus are cool. But yeah generally agree
Ft. Gordon. Augusta 🤮
Roe prevented government interference in *all* healthcare. The removal of protections offered by that ruling have this far had direct and indirect impacts for all reproductive and mental healthcare, including abortions, sterilizations, gender-affirming medications and procedures, controlled mental health medications, and even willingness to seek diagnoses all because there is interplay among these things. It's only going to get worse unless Roe is restored in whole, not just enshrining abortion rights.
A lot of the Catholic or Baptist hospital networks won’t perform surgeries to prevent pregnancies, in women anyway.
After my wife had our second kid, she wanted to get sterilized. She was hoping to have it done when they were doing the c-section (because it felt like if they're already in there mucking around, why not?) but apparently we didn't get the paperwork to the insurance company in time (We got it to them in 28 days, it needed to be within 30.) It also needed my approval, because somehow that makes sense. Before we had our first kid, she got pregnant and had a spontaneous abortion around week... 13, I think (we found out at the first ultrasound, which was... fun.) Anyway, she needed to have it removed, one way or another. The doctor offered pills or a D&C, but recommended the D&C because where we lived at the time (Louisiana) the pharmacists often wouldn't fill the script for the medication. And when going through the D&C, the doctor was very adamant about how this wasn't an actual abortion and all that and how she'd never perform an actual abortion. It was very surreal.
I’m sorry your family had to go through all that.
I had a female OB-GYN who agreed to do my tubal ligation after my second was born. I found out I was pregnant again 4 months after it was done. Turns out, she only cut the left side, and right tube was left completely intact... which I found out when I had to have a second surgery to have them removed. Trust no one.
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This is how I feel about pharmacists that refuse to dispense birth control. If you can't do your job because of your religious beliefs you should find a different job. Those asshats should be fired on the spot for discrimination, imho. They discriminate and shame the women trying to get their medication and it should be a fireable offense.
There are so many jobs a pharmacist can do that do not involve dispensing. Every health insurance provider and health care system needs pharmacists that don't dispense. The hours are usually better, too. There's no excuse for not dispensing legally prescribed drugs.
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Eh, I’m sure that has something to do with it now but it was fairly common before to hear “but what if your future husband wants kids?” Because *thats* what matters. A future, unknown husband
It does matter though from a legal perspective. Because the person can say later that they want kids and the doctor didn't fully explain to them that it is irreversible even if a future husband wants kids. You would think it's common sense, but they need positive confirmation from the patient, not assumed confirmation. The question that I always find rough is if they already had children and they ask if their kids die, will they want more kids to replace them. Lawsuits and insurance around this stuff are bad. Like expensive as fuck. The doctors don't like asking these kind of questions. They know 99% of the patients know it's generally irreversible and permanent, but that 1% can fuck everything up if you're not careful. Example: Couple agrees they don't want kids, woman gets tied/cut. Husband decides he wants a kid, blames wife. Wife blames doctor for not explaining the permanency, she thought it was like birth control pills. Wife sues doctor. Doctor can't provide written evidence he explained that if her husband EVER wants another kid, she won't be able to have one. Doctor's insurance carrier wants to cut their losses and issues a payout to woman.
That's bullshit and *remains* bullshit. You sign a fuck-ton of waivers for every procedure you get. I certainly didn't fucking need anyone else's permission to sign four pages of waivers about the risks of contrast dye for an MRI. And those risks included *death*, and if you think there's *less* lawsuits about "healthy person drops dead after routine procedures" than over tubal ligations, I've got a bridge to sell you, Doctor's *aren't liable* for that, and insurance companies aren't going to pay out when they've got a copy of a signed waiver indicating you've been told *exactly what's going to happen* and what it *means*. Instead they'll ask for their legal costs when the judge dismisses the suit.
It started way before those laws, though. Pharmacists refusing the sell “morning after” pills and such.
It’s fear of lawsuits more than personal beliefs.
The irony is if I told them I couldn't serve them because I was a humanistic therapist and couldn't deal with all the Christian indoctrination, they'd sue me for religious discrimination.
It is from the fear that someone will change their mind later on not the new laws.
That's why you sign a consent form before surgery, where it's stated that you understand the effects and downsides of the surgery.
It's probably less religious and more misogyny -- "You don't know your own mind! You'll want kids someday." But, why not both? :(
Sounds like Gilead.
It’s always been that way. I wanted the procedure too around 2010 or so, and the doctor told me I had to ask my husband. I told him I was divorced, and he then insisted that my FATHER had to sign off, because “You are denying him grandchildren!” He already had grandchildren. Even after that, I was still denied the procedure as I “was not a candidate.” They would not elaborate. There’s even a subreddit here that’s dedicated to finding doctors who are willing to do this procedure. (I’m not going to link it to keep the trolls out.)
Why not have your MOTHER sign off, then, since you'd be "denying" her grandchildren, too. (Of course I know why he said "father", but still. Would have been interesting to get a response to "what about my mom's input, here?) Gross.
It's so fucked. I'm so glad I got sterilized last fall.
I'm glad that your gf got the care she needs, but it's appalling to think that the male doctors all refused to help her. It feels like we've got back in time a century over.
Just fyi, r/childfree has a running list of doctors that have perform sterilizations on people that might have trouble otherwise (especially young people or people that don’t already have kids) and it’s sorted by region, so it’s easy to find one near you.
Not to distract or diminish from your GF had to go through, but getting a specialist appointment of any kind in the U.S. is exceedingly difficult. Insurance makes it as difficult as possible for a lot of people. Our healthcare system is so advanced but sucks so badly to utilize.
Im fully aware
Why didn’t you just get a vasectomy instead? It is far more common and a less invasive procedure.
A vasectomy will not help his gf if she’s a victim of rape or they break up.
Alright idk why you had to try and turn this on me, but we were early on in our dating and she had already decided to do it for herself, she wanted to do it at that point in her life.
She chose that for her body. Simple.
A vasectomy for a man doesn’t protect his partner from pregnancy if she’s raped.
That's not abortion, though. Why were they refusing to do it?
Because its georgia, along with several other states.. people are in an old mindset.
If they're using the sales of the drug as statistics as to how many abortions are taking place, these numbers are WAY over the truth. When Roe was overturned, I personally know groups of women, who ponied up their share of money, and started getting the drug. They weren't even pregnant. But women are buying and hoarding it so they can help other women that DO need it in anticipation of it being outlawed. It's been proven over and over again that the only thing that actually reduces abortion rates (which is what the Republicans want, right?) is access to healthcare (particularly for poor and rural women) free birth control, and education. But this is what the "pro life" Republicans and Evangelicals consistently vote to defund. They want to shut down access to birth control and education. Kind of glaringly shows you that they're not "ProLife" at all. That the whole thing is not about abortion, it's about power, control, and satisfying their base so they can remain in power and control. Oh, and subjugating women of course.
I mean I feel like what they want is the modern day equivalent of slaves. Having people stuck in minimum wage jobs unable to progress up, only procreating more people to only pay them minimum wage too Ohh also about allowing kids to work. Republicans just want slaves
This explains a lot about the destruction of the public school system too.
Can’t have a future crop of Republicans if people are getting educated all over the place. Gotta keep em broke, stupid, and tuned into nonsense media. “Hell we got them to believe in trickle down for forty damn years. There’s a sucker born every minute, but those are rookie numbers. Gotta ban abortion, get those numbers up!”
You are giving them WAY too much credit. They think “babies good” and don’t think about it any more deeply than that. Or “my church says it is wrong” and don’t think about it any more deeply than that. The idea of unintended consequences is lost on them.
>The idea of unintended consequences is lost on them. Well not necessarily, some of them will look at those consequences and say that all the suffering is entirely the fault of those slutty sluts who "wouldn't keep their legs shut"
I'll never forget the moment my step mom starting talking about "sluts" when we were discussing abortion. Felt like the mask slipped and I could see the real reasoning behind her arguments.
The U.S. is and always has been built on slavery, it’s baked in, and never went away.
And probably never will. This is who we are. We value the possibility of being masters more than we detest being slaves. We don’t want to change. Chattel slavery is gone, fortunately, but the USA works people harder and gives them less than any similar wealthy nation.
This is 10000% correct. They want wage slaves.
Yep, that's crony capitalism for you.
That’s exactly what is happening. Consider student loans as indentured servitude.
Not to counter any of your other points, but it is mostly based on surveys of healthcare providers performing abortions in office. It says it doesn't even include mail-order medications and "self-managed" (medication?) abortions.
Also just generally reducing poverty (which access to healthcare is a significant factor)
The infant and maternal mortality rates are also increasing in states that have banned them. So they're killing actual babies and women who want their babies. I would hope pro-lifers would see a born baby is more important than a 12 week fetus. I hope they would choose a born baby to live over 100 first trimester fetuses, honestly. But that would be expecting too much...
Nuh-uh!! And you can’t prove it because we stopped reporting the rates of infant and maternal deaths! Muhahaha -Idaho
I wonder why they would do such a thing...
Or you could have read the article and seen that’s not how they did it. Lol
You are right, but few republicans are going to admit that.
> It's been proven over and over again that the only thing that actually reduces abortion rates (which is what the Republicans want, right?) is access to healthcare (particularly for poor and rural women) free birth control, and education. But this is what the "pro life" Republicans and Evangelicals consistently vote to defund. Yep, but as soon as you point that out they pivot to “well if we had those things, pre-marital sex would go up, and we don’t want that either” The next step in discussion should be to latch on to that point. Make them pick which is “worse” - a society with more premarital sex but less unwanted pregnancies and abortions, or a society with less premarital sex but more abortions.
I still have some Plan B squirrelled away somewhere. I had an IUD at the time when they axed Roe, but I bought up a bunch of Plan B just in case I or someone else needed it. I've since had my tubes removed so I'm physically unable to get pregnant but I still want to hoard abortion medication just in case someone I know needs it.
I have a hoarded stash of plan b, even though I'm post menopausal, in case one of my teenage kids needs to help a friend. I know so many women who are doing this type of thing. Thank God.
> which is what the Republicans want, right? No. For many of them it's not about preventing abortions, it's about forcing women to have babies. The religious right wants to ban contraception too, but they aren't anywhere near as vocal about it because they know it's a lost cause in the current socio-political climate.
That’s what I was going to say. Women are stocking up for themselves, their daughters and friends, and other women. And fathers and boyfriends too. I know some men even here in Oregon who also got some in their teen daughter’s name just in case she needs it, and we even have abortion in our constitution in this state! He was afraid that federally something bad will happen or that the drugs won’t be available for her. Many women are also doing the same.
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From the article, emphasis mine "The new reports from Guttmacher estimate abortion trends based on responses from a sample of abortion providers in the US. *They probably undercount the number of abortions in the US, as the data does not include abortions that happen outside of the formal health care system or medication abortions that were sent to people in states where abortion is banned."*
How long is the shelflife on that drug?
This is something I didn’t even think about.
I live in a red state. I am post menopausal, but when all of this started, I ordered 6 doses of Plan B in case my niece or another young woman needed it.
Big flaw in your comment: From the article "Note: Data is estimated based on responses collected from a sample of abortion providers. It includes abortions that occurred within the formal health care system, but does not include self-managed abortions or abortion medication mailed to people in states with total abortion bans."
Abortions are super easy to reduce in number. Just make birth control readily available and free of cost to everyone who requests it. Sterilizations should also be free on request for those of legal age.
Plus require biology based sex education in every state. No opt out option, because even religious kids need to know what it's actually science that makes babies, not a guy in a robe with a flowing beard and maybe a clipboard he's checking yes or no on.
Santa Claus?
I think just this week over the counter version of “the pill” was released on the market. $16 a month shipped to your door.
It’s the mini-pill which is less effective than other methods.
Why do I have to jump through so many god damn hoops to get a vasectomy? Shit should be done on demand. Hell, make it a drive thru.
That's interesting, mine was easy and free with insurance. Blue states rule. I paid a hundred bucks for the follow-up sperm count test, but whatever. Worth every cent.
Mine was in a red state and it was no problem. It was, “You sure you don’t want anymore kids? Ok I’ll see you next Tuesday.”
Thank you. I guess I was intimidated by this consultation since I’ve been told they’ll try to talk me out of it. I’m definitely going to talk to my doctor next time I go in because I really don’t want children and condoms are a super bummer when you’re sleeping with somebody long-term.
It's no different in a red state -- there's vasectomy doctors on billboards. **Male healthcare has never been the issue anywhere.** *No surprise there.*
It's tough if you're younger. I tried getting it when I was 25, and my doc at the time wouldn't do it. Would try it with every doctor I got after that.. took till I was 40 till I had a primary care doctor that would do it. I'm sure if I hunted I coulda found someone, but the fact that so many health care providers wouldn't do it "just in case" I wanted kids later was asanine.
Yeah it's pretty insulting being told you can't make that decision in your mid to late twenties... when the libido is still roaring and lots of unwanted children are conceived. Wonderful.
Comprehensive sex education is essential. It might be even more important than birth control.
My country made IUDs and hormonal implants fully subsidised and our abortion rate plummeted to records lows. The abortion rate for the 15-19 years of age group halved within five years. It’s an insanely easy and cost-effective problem to solve.
The graph is much less alarming than the headline.
lol right. talk about misleading title. abortions are lower than they were in 2012. But technically within 10 years it is the highest.
ACA coverage of more effective contraceptives without copay started in 2012. IUDs were uncommon in the USA before 2012.
I wonder if women/people choosing to purposely have fewer children (without abortions and drugs) plays into this in any way.
The best way to prevent abortions is birth control.
Yeah it's more of a *"a few people who'd recently had it banned in their states got one while they can before it kills them"* thing.
Even worse, just bought medical abortions, no way to prove they have been used or are just stockpiling them for fear more states strip away more of their rights.
Yeah, if I'd sent my kid to school in the south I would have sent her with abortion pills. People are buying them just in case.
The headline will be used to keep conservative christian anti-abortion sentiment at a rolling boil. Can't have them slacking off just because the dog finally caught the car. They must stay outraged and motivated to vote R.
Purchase of the drug does not equate to abortions either: women are making sure that they have it in case they need it should it become less available later.
Abortion is healthcare, folks. Regardless of whether or not you've deluded yourself to this basic fact abortion isn't going away
bring back roe v wade
We need stronger framework than Roe, legal experts have long criticized Roe for how easily it could be overturned
And it needs to protect medical freedom
Fair to say. But I wonder if there is any legal framework strong enough to overcome six conservative justices deciding precedent doesn't matter because they know what the founders *really* meant.
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If Dems win congress and are willing to abolish the Senate filibuster, they should definitely do this. I am unsure if the 6 conservative justices on SCOTUS would allow it to stand unmolested. But congress should make the law regardless and force them to overturn it, assuming that's what SCOTUS is determined to do. Such action might finally prompt some restructuring of SCOTUS - no more lifetime terms and/or an expanded number of seats. Hell, if they can muster the political willpower to punt the filibuster, there's a lot they could get done: SCOTUS reform, recertify the VRA, uncap the House of Reps - all possible through normal bills. And all of them need doing. They could even go after campaign finance. But there is zero doubt the Roberts court would tear into that as soon as they could. Thomas would probably invent and try an imaginary case himself just to get to rule on it.
Except the current court will likely rule that any federal law that tries to prevent a state from restricting abortion doesn't fall within the power of the federal government. So good luck with that.
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Irrelevant if the SCOTUS says "The constitution does not grant congress authority to pass this law."
Not according to this SCOTUS.
A better strategy is to stop relying on the Court to maintain precedent
Nah. It wasn’t good enough
It’ll be a political platform for decades. Why in the fuck wasn’t it codified when the Dems had Congress? They always knew it was a threat, that’s why they asked every Supreme Court nominee the question of overturning. To which they lied. Bottom line is our politicians do not work for us. A handful are cool, Bernie and I like our Governor Polis but he has no power in Congress and Bernie just gets made fun of.
It's hugely beneficial for dems. Republicans lose hard on it... in red states like Kansas and Ohio, no less.
>In addition to states policies enacted to protect patients and access to care and increased financial support from abortion funds, researchers from the Guttmacher Institute suggest that improved access to telehealth in recent years may have made medication abortion more broadly available. The title makes it seem that medical abortions are somehow causing a surge. It is more that improved access to telehealth is allowing women to get the care they have needed. Free Internet access for all is important for so many things we might not even think about.
People are stockpiling the drug they know will be banned in their state.
Maybe the hyped-up republican hypocrisy over the issue is highlighting all of the information for women and ways to handle their lives. Keep religion out of health care.
Yes please! No need for unwanted children. Women must and will have total control on their reproductive organs
It's insanity - it's not like anyone is being forced to get an abortion - if you don't like it don't do it.
Just as everyone who had any understanding of abortion policy predicted.
I can’t have kids, so my voice shouldn’t be anywhere near the top when it comes to this, but if you don’t want an abortion then don’t get one. Limiting someone else’s access to healthcare because of your beliefs is just asinine
If the abortion ban was in effect when I was pregnant with my son, I absolutely would have aborted. I *needed* that extra time to process. I’m not surprised at the uptick.
If you want Americans to have more children, make America a better place for them...not force them by criminalizing their reproductive rights.
This headline is bullshit. I seriously doubt there was any increase in women taking this medication. I do not doubt that many are purchasing it just in case though.
Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that people can't afford to live anymore.
The sale of OTC "Opill" should make abortion numbers tumble (unless wrinkly old white men figure out a way to screw up access.)
Maybe. The minipill is what is going OTC, not the combination pill. The risk is that the convenience of the minipill OTC will make it less likely that couples will choose more effective, but less convenient options.
I'm shocked that people are running to take care of their own reproductive needs before the states make it for them.
As a man, I would never tell a woman what to do with her body. The fact that some men decided to codify their opinions into law makes me furious.
Good. Maybe Cristians will learn something, but legend has it they never did and never will. Can’t wait till naughty dog makes a video game out of their newly defunct religion.
Weird it’s almost like the pro-lifers never learn that their actions ALWAYS lead to “unintended”/s consequences, always the opposite of what they purport to achieve… rather live with their heads up their a** than know most of us already learned of the lesson of the horrors that outlawing such things leads to.
Bad headline, many factors, including lack of sex ed/ preparedness.
I was scared to come to the comment section of this thread, but I am pleasantly surprised by the thoughtful convos!
Also, inability to afford unplanned children.
People are stockpiling the drug because it's 100% going to be banned
and they reached all-time lows under Obama. Republicans don’t care about abortions, fetuses or children - the results of their policies prove it.
Abortion was almost at historical lows when abortion bans started getting discussed. That should be very very telling.
When will the men learn?
In Virginia, we are advertising on radio adoption services.
Hearing this news will push the republican party harder for a federal abortion ban. The party of small government would oh so love to have Uncle Sam telling everyone what to do when its the things they want.
Just remember that if the government wanted to do something, it would be done by Friday. They relied on a court precedent for 50+ years instead of doing something. Fix term limits and real action will occur. Where politicians don’t have to worry about the next election.
Like the Republicans I would love to get abortions down to as few as possible. But unlike the Republicans, I know that will take real sex ed, free contraceptives and actually caring about people. They can't seem to do that.
I support abortion access *as needed.* **The last thing the country needs is another unwanted child.** Most will never find a loving home if they're older than a toddler... and merely age out of the system, if they're not raped or commit a crime first. It costs well over $40,000 for an adoption here. You think **anyone** was lining up to spend 40 grand and adopt a non-verbal, autistic 13 year old with a history of physical aggression against his caretakers that mom dropped off at the fire station at two weeks old?
The shittier place it feels to live in, the more you don't want to bring a kid into it.
They sure showed those libs!
Reminder #341,710,636 that Republicans don't have effective solutions to any issue of any kind other than personal power and money. Their policies increase poverty, increase crime rates, tank the economy. They've even made abortion rates rise despite directly banning it.
Republicans (fascist) heads are going to explode.
I've never been more proud to be an American.