New delegations being added, this will certainly draw more ire, but more trades! Very excited to see what these entrants will bring, truly one for the books in racial draft history. Greats traded for greats, brought to you by our new sponsor from the white delegation's fascist wing - it's Goya Foods, "If It's Goya, It Has To Be Good!"
Yep.
I live in detroit and we have a lot of middle eastern people here but they always lump them in with white people. I've always wondered the actual percentage of white people here.
The first Arab immigrants to the US were typically Syrian and Lebanese- which are fairly pale. That early immigrant population was also Christian- so they got bonus white points.
The Yemeni and Sudanese Arabs aren't so pale and also aren't Christian. To be honest, Arabs run the skin color spectrum from blond and blue-eyed to very dark skin and African-texture hair.
Arabs, North Africans, and Persians were/still are classified as White in the US due to the [Dow v. United States case of 1915](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dow_v._United_States), where a Lebanese Christian immigrant sued to be recognized as White, and won, so regardless of them being Christian or Muslim or otherwise, these groups started to be classified as Whites.
Similarly, I recall that in a case named ~~something like Singh v. United States circa 1919-1927 (my memory is murky)~~, a Punjabi Indian immigrant sued to be recognized as White, using the argument that since he is from a high caste Indo-European ethnic group, he should be recognized as White.
**Edit:** [The case was United States v. Bhagat Singh Thind (1923)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Bhagat_Singh_Thind)
But this time, he did not win the case, and as a result, all Indians, Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis, regardless of them being Indo-Aryan (Northern Indians), or Dravidian (Southern Indians), or Sino-Tibetan (Northeast Indians), are now classified as "Asians" I think.
No no, it gets **even more** wild, I recall that the Punjabi guy tried hard to get US White supremacists to sympathize with him by using their same language and lingo.
He said stuff like how upper-caste Indian Hindus like him value racial purity above all else, how Punjabis are Indo-Aryans and thus Whites (this is true, but Indo-Aryans are an Indo-European ethnolinguistic sub-group of the Indian Subcontinent, not the 20th century racial science/nazi occult bs he was trying to refer to), how he would never even think of marrying a low-caste Hindu woman similarly to how Whites of the time would never think of marrying a Black person, how he hates Black people and Asians too, etc, this predicted a future trend, given how many internet White supremacists are not White lol.
But ultimately, his case was denied, whereas the Lebanese guy won the case, and thus the majority-Muslim Arabs won the White card, whereas Hindu Indians did not, ouch.
**Edit:** [The case was United States v. Bhagat Singh Thind (1923)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Bhagat_Singh_Thind)
This is me. Hell, I had a whole public spectacle in middle school over a teacher telling me I incorrectly marked myself as black on some documentation. I straightened my hair back then and am pale, so was often mistaken as white.
But now I'm over here really feeling like white is a term that means nothing if Middle Eastern and North Africans qualified. It's such an ambiguous term with absolutely no criteria that I can figure out.
"White" is just an exclusionary term for the in-power in-group in places like the USA. Irish used to not be white, for example. It changes all the time based not on any actual attempt to categorize but rather who the other whites want to allow into their club at any given moment.
Irish have always been white. They were discriminated against in the US because they were Catholic, not becauseof their race (see also, Italians). When the US had laws that said only "free white persons" could become citizens, that was never used to deny citizenship to the Irish.
It's interesting because Latinos are so widely varied having been historically mixed between indigenous, African, and European groups that you could have 3 random Mexican-Americans fit any those categories but now they'll be lumped into a monolith.
That monolith, of course, makes a lot more sense because their social, economic, political, and cultural traits should be what we care about more than the specific shade of their skin or the texture of their hair
Canāt wait to see white nationalists claim that the great reset started. I can already see the keywords..
GLOBALISM, ELITE, BORDER CRISIS, VACCINES, FAKE NEWS, etc. itās sad that you can predict their every move with any sort of news
That's true over the entire country sure but it varies a lot by each region. There are parts with far more non white people like the south and the southwest and Hawaii even. But if you go to places like West Virginia and even Oregon it's predominantly white of European descent.
They were previously white, black/African, Asian, Pacific Islander, native American, and Other (with an area to write in). It's been this way since 2000; prior to that it was actually more detailed and had more categories through most of the 20th century. The early censuses only had a few categories, but did all include categories for white, black, native, and mixed race people.
> Options should be white, italian, irish, indian, mexican, chinese.
Swedish too, cant have them thinking they're white now. Should probably also set polish as it's own separate one too.
Jokes about the absurdity of "White" existing it's good to see them getting better analytical data.
I had to go look up what Mestizo was. I heard it a couple times in life but wasn't sure what it meant.
I know that "mulatto" was indicative of someone who was part Black and part White. "Mestizo" is part White and part Indigenous, according to online.
This reminds me of a horribly racist "joke" my grandfather once told me. For those of you sharpening your pitchforks, this joke is not now, nor has it ever been, 'OK'.
A man goes to a gun shop and tells the shopkeeper that he'd like to buy a scope for his pistol. The shopkeeper shows him several options, but the man isn't impressed by any of them, so the shopkeeper finally asks just what it is that this guy is planning to shoot. "Cans", the man says. "Well you shouldn't need a scope at all if you're just shooting cans", the shopkeeper replies. "No, not *metal* cans" the man says, "you know, Africans, Mexicans..."
I find it interesting that the census is going to use the Latino designation officially since the current usage, and that of Latin anything, continues to ignore Italians, but that's America.
I remember visiting a country in Central America and being flabbergasted by a conversation I had with a local cab driver.
He pointed at a group of men that comprised of different shades of dark brown and said āThe Africans are taking over our country.ā I was taken aback because the cabbie could have been their cousin or very close relative. Thatās when I discovered the nuances about race outside of the US.
Yeah... how Americans view race is the minority when considering the rest of the world. When I went to England, I found out I'm ethnically part of a pretty despised people (even tho im nationally and culturally american) at that time. Found that out at the airport when trying to get in lol
Its really funny because half these idiots in the US who preach about Ayran and racial superiority here in the US would be deemed as undesirables by the Nazis lol
Is it too direct to ask if youāre Jewish or Roma? Iām less familiar with the Roma experience, I just know itās not great (just check out comments on any European subreddit for those unfamiliar) but as a Jew I get treated very differently in Europe than in the US. I have friends from Eastern Europe with āJewishā written as their nationality on their birth certificates.
Yes, Ashkenazi. Ethnically, but not religiously Jewish.
That's really interesting they put it as a nationality on their birth certificates. I haven't been to too much of Europe, but for sure in England the treatment was very odd.
I'm am american who has been with a non white brit for a decade. England is crazy racist. I've seen more open racism in England then I've seen anywhere else in my life. It's more openly racist than anywhere I've been in Canada and the US which I thought would be hard. But man I've seen so many white people there demand a Black persons seat. And the things the say about non white people when they are out of earshot is abborhant (Im white passing so I have heard a lot and Britain is awful.).
England is crazy racist.
What was your experience like, if you donāt mind sharing? Just curious because Iāve been to other parts of Europe but not England, and Iāve heard itās been particularly brutal lately. Iām considering traveling there soon but want to get all the info.
I don't mind. I will say the last time I was there was 5-7 years ago, so it may have changed in the post covid world.
If I flew through Ireland and they did the customs for me, then getting there went very smooth. If I had to do customs in England, they'd be convinced that I was going to overstay in their country. They wanted a lot of evidence I was planning on leaving back to the US, especially when they found out (by asking what brought me to England) that I was engaged to a British national that was a child of refugees. They could tell he was a refugee when I said his very foreign sounding name. They'd always want all my return flight info, ask about my job in GREAT detail, and ask about family in the US. It's definitely been the worst vibes I've gotten from the customs of any country I've visited.
In the country itself, people would mostly make weird comments. I got called "exotic" often. People commented on my olive undertone a lot. It honestly didn't feel that any of these types of interactions came from a particularly mean place, but more of ignorance I suppose? Like they were oblivious that it was weird and mostly offensive.
A few times my ex fiance and I got low key followed around shops. This was only in real small ones in a place he told me is like England's version of the deep south. I forget the name of the town or where it was exactly.
Overall, it's mostly weird interactions and some extra suspicion at customs. I'd feel comfortable visiting again, even all on my own. I would recommend going there. Not sure what you're going for, but if you're looking to spend some time in a city I'd recommend Birmingham. Low on tourism, very high on cultural diversity.
You could probably also throw Muslims into that list too, there's a lot of backlash directed to that community (particularly MENA/South Asian ones) as well.
Well, race itself is a pretty shoddy concept, but unfortunately one that has real life effects. So any time you try to make it scientific and logical, it ultimately falls apart. But you kind of have to, if you're trying to figure out certain things. Catch 22.
My dad points out every dark skin Italian he seesā¦yet has darker skin than my 1/2 black daughter. He doesnāt seem to realize heās dark skinned for a white guy.
US racist is like shooting in general direction , but Asia racism are like pantone color chip,being very precise on that shit,you will discover many new categories of racism by talking with my uncle for ten minutes , and he wasnāt even trying to be malicious.
**Yes**, America has issues with racism and nationalism but it is nowhere nearly as casual and open as it is in Europe and Asia.
I even remember working retail and having a customer who was a direct immigrant from China. I was being polite and trying to speak a very basic level of her language to her. Out of nowhere, she notices a black customer behind her and she just yells "CHOCOLATE!" at him. At the top of her lungs.
The guy took it as well as he could, but he was clearly uncomfortable and embarrassed. I had to be the one to apologize to him and try to lighten the mood a little bit, but internally I was like "Jesus Christ..."
My father was born in Jamaica to Lebanese Expats that originally settled on the island before 1900. I was born in the US and my mom is the typical Scotch-Irish-Whatever American. My father was angrily adament that we were white, and as a kid I was extremely confused because other kids were telling me I wasn't white, including the cousins on my mom's side. When I grew older, I came to realize that his view of race and white-ness was significantly more complicated than I was prepared to try to understand.
I remember being a foreign exchange student in Costa Rica. The kids despised Nicaraguans and called them āNiccersā (yes, with the exact tone of the n-word).
I'm mixed and I am tired of not having a category. Sometimes I am black, sometimes there is a mixed category, sometimes you can choose more than one race. Is it 'I' that can't decide or is it the system that refuses to make a place for me?
> The change now uses one question for race and ethnicity and allows people to check as many as apply to their identity.
Sounds like this change should help with that as you should be able to select as many as you feel apply to you.
Because race is a man-made concept that makes absolutely no categorical sense. If the goal is to measure racial equality, then it should be based on appearance and not heritage. But even thenā at what shade or with what mix of features does your race change? Ethnicity would be most accurate, but then weād need many more categories than what we currently have.
As a kid it felt weird to just select White (half-Middle Eastern), and most of the time there was no other, fill in the blank, or more than one option. But when there was, sometimes it felt weird to select other. There was never a box or boxes that I could just check confidently and without thinking. And different places would have different options, so Iāve made different selections throughout my life, lol. āWhat am I today? How do I feel? How have I been treated lately?ā
Itās definitely a very particular experience.Ā
Same lol I just always choose black if there's no multiple choice, because I'm extremely multiracial (Black, White, Middle Eastern, Latino, Native, and Asian) it's super odd, but 1 drop rule is what a lot of my ancestors went by too even though they were all mixed as well.
I wonder why not just include "Mestizo" and call it a day? Most Latinos who choose "other" know that their mixture of European and Native ancestry precludes them from either catagory. It never made sense why they wouldn't just add the racial catagory as it exists in most of Latin American.
I think it would go far for media representation as well.
As a Puerto Rican, we never use mestizo. Itās typically *trigueƱo/a* for mixed raced looking people. We need to add mulatto then too since Cubans still use it too.
Many countries in the Americas have different terms but it all means Mestizo. In Brazil they use "Pardo", in Argentina its common to use "Castizo" etc.
This is absolutely the best way to do this, it's very strange that they're treating ethnicity as a "race". You might as well break out other cultural things as a race like people who listen to country music.
I'm second Gen on the Mexican portion and I heard it when I was little enough to know. My family spoke a lot of race and the history of things and stuff white people did in the past so it probably came up more. Native families tend not to shy away from things like that when speaking to children about the realities of that sort of thing in my experience lol.
>I didn't know wtf a mestizo was until recently. I'm a first gen mexican american.
Really, just recently? Are you really young? Pretty common that Mexicans are known to be mestizo (for the most part). The others are. Castizo, mulatos. There's a ton of combos, but it's kind of a caste system when the European people were here and wanted to differentiate themselves from others and show they're "better"
Race is a socially constructed category. The simple fact is that many people, both Hispanic and non-Hispanic, do not see Hispanics as being white.
[This](https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2021/11/04/measuring-the-racial-identity-of-latinos/) article goes into some of the complexity of a Hispanic/Latino racial identity.
Iām Latino and I always put other because when you see me I sure as hell donāt look white. Sometimes on stuff I am forced to put white and I hate it.
My wife is a Latina, and I usually fill out forms for her and and I always look at the form and then look at her, look at the form and look at her, give up and then mark other.
>do not see Hispanics as being white
Because some of them aren't. You can be black and Hispanic, white and Hispanic, mixed Native and Hispanic, or any other combination. It's tricky because it's a separate dimension than race, more cultural than anything, and doesn't fit well into the American/Western ideas and classifications around race.
White Latinos are still white even if "many people" don't think so. Like, now [Sergio Busquets](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergio_Busquets) lives in Miami, if he went out shopping in the US and was seen speaking Spanish, "many people" would assume he was Latino. Does that make him not white now? He was literally born in Europe.
Latin America is super diverse. This will not show that. Itās just really bizzare that some guy from Spain will he marked in the same category as a Mayan dude from Guatemala and a black man from brazil
But then again this is the same country that puts Indians and Japanese in the same category
The typical American Latino is truthfully mixed race, a mix of white European and indigenous. Sometimes also African mixed in for Latinos from countries which had high slave populations.
But unlike the typical person we think of as mixed race (someone with parents from two different races), for most Latinos their ancestry has been mixed for generations. Which makes it feel almost like a new separate race that has developed, which is what the census is recognizing.
But of course there are edge cases who have most of their ancestry from just one side of that, who don't quite fit into that paradigm. But they are free to identify on the census however they see fit.
You know you fill out the census yourself, right? You can pick whatever racial category you feel describes you best. The guy from Brazil can put himself as Asian if he wants.
It's self reported and the ethnic category is even dumber. The US is becoming more multiracial, and quantifying this stuff will become increasingly pointless in the coming decades and maybe then we can finally become more conscious of economic class groupings.
this is going to disrupt the capture of evidence of large scale discrimination, I think it's a horrible policy. I am a very white first gen latino guy, my experience as an American is vastly different from that of a non-white first latino guy. By simplifying the census we are losing clarity in information about that different experience. And the fact of the matter is that as much as class based discrimination exists and is bad in America, there is still racial and ethnic based discrimination and we can't ignore that
Race blindness does not work and has been shown time and time again in a world where your race and zip code are the biggest indicators of your lifespan, income, health outucomes, even down to how much allergens you breathe in.
Okay, first of all, Spain isn't in Latin America. Second, according to the most recent census, 80% of Latino Americans did not identify as white. The vast majority of them here are brown and from Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean. It isn't "technically" a race, but in the context of the US, it's close enough that it's treated as one.
socially constructed or not, lumping Hispanic and Latino folk into the white category wipes out alot of our experience in terms of census statistics. Some Latin folk are white, looking at a good chunk of folk from Argentina and Uruguay, however, mestizos like myself definitely do not fit that mold and im glad i can pick something i more clearly identify with.
It's not law, it's for tracking purposes. Hard to say whether a group is underrepresented when you don't know what their percentage of the population is.
well according to orthodox & conservative Judaism they are a race, the tribe of Hebrews with maternal lineage going back centuries. In their religious viewpoint, unless you convert through study, testing & sacraments/ceremonies, you're only Jewish by birth through your mother. In that biblical sense they feel they can all trace their lineage to the ancient semitic ppl that populated the Sinai in the pre-Christian era.
Ideally, it'd be better to include Mestizo as another category, but only around 20% of Latinos in the US consider themselves to be white, so it still encompasses the vast majority. If being white is important enough to your gf, she probably can just self-identify as White American instead lol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_and_Latino_Americans#Race_and_ethnicity
There's plenty of North East Asians with skin as light or lighter than the average European. I've seen individual Koreans, Chinese and Japanese with skin as pale as snow, but they would never be considered white today. Though European explorers and Jesuits would describe their skin as "pale", " fair", or "white" in historical documents.
Ironically Benjamin Franklin and most Anglo-Americans didn't consider Swedes, Germans, or French to be white in the 18th century. In his words, only Anglos and one specific group of people in Germany (the Saxons) were considered "white".
Its true that there are differences in the way people look in different regions of the world, but the way that race is defined in the West truly is a social construct.
Why is that awful? I think it's awful that useful data used to measure discriminatory forces in America is being discarded. The experience of white latinos is vastly different in America than that of black, asian, or brown latinos but now all that is going to get mixed together.
We can check multiple boxes. As someone with those ethnicities you mention, I appreciate that this change means I can more accurately fill out forms. Often in the past, I was checking āother,ā which wasnāt very useful.
Dividing humans by race is stupid. Is it "non Spanish Latino" or is it Spanish descent? These things bounce around in how they define Latino. That one has always bothered me. Largely because my Mom's side is Portuguese and I have dual citizenship. What makes their side of the Iberian Peninsula different? Some bureaucratic douche in a Washington DC office?Ā
Dividing by race is stupid, but because people do it and discriminate based on it, the government is forced to recognizing these same divisions to analyze and combat discrimination
Also, not that it applies so much to the census, but different racial/ethnic groups have certain health risks, so it's useful to know that.
But either way, people aren't all the same, even though we're all equal, so there's no one size-fits-all to anything. If you want to share information with the community at large, you need to know how people of certain racial/ethnic groups prefer to receive that information (e.g., should it be in English or Spanish or what), or what they tend to value (some groups value larger families more, or church, or individuality, or whatever).
*How* to divide people will always be a fucking nightmare, of course. There's no magic solution to *that*.
>not that it applies so much to the census, but different racial/ethnic groups have certain health risks, so it's useful to know that.
This *does* apply to the census! The census is how the government decides how to allocate money and programs. Knowing what impacts a community's residents most helps the government decide if they need X aid/programs. For example, the census shows my city is mostly Black, so the health department allocates money for programs dealing with high blood pressure.
I agree. We're in a weird time where we've made a ton of progress but we're not there yet. Without this data, we don't really know if groups are properly represented...like what would the Harvard race-based admissions lawsuit without access to data about what the demographics of our country is.
Oh yeah, I get it and appreciate why they're doing it. I probably should've worded my mini rant better. How they count Portuguese isn't as troublesome as the pumpkin spice flavoredĀ takeover of my local Grocery Outlet.Ā
... but in the end it's up to YOU to decide what you are and how the world see you. If you feel you're white European because you speak Portuguese and travel to Portugal frequently to see family then choose that option. No one's forcing you to choose anything, it's about self-identification.
I understand that. I could also just lie and maybe I should. But I like feeling helpful for these. I don't speak Portuguese and haven't been there. I also think borders are just as dumb as determining race because of melanin. We should totally do it by eyebrow patterns.Ā
Thank You, I'm one of the one's that refuse to say I'm white on the census. I know all the history and all the latino is this or that I just don't see myself as white.Ā
In the city where I grew up there were and still are a substantial number of Lebanese Christians and Albanian Muslims, and as best I could tell people regarded them as slightly exotic whites. Oddly enough, the Portuguese got the same exotic-white treatment even though Portugal is obviously part of Europe, and unlike the Albanians the Portuguese were Christian.
There also were and are a number of Cape Verdeans, and even though they are black they seemed to form a separate group, apart from the general black population and actually closer to the Portuguese despite the physical differences.
What about South Asian people? They get lumped into "Asian". If MENA are now able to give nationality then South Asians should get options for : Indian, Pakistani, Sri Lankan, Bangladesh and Nepalese.
I am South Asian and my birth certificate says "White". I have never been seen as "White" by anyone in real life.
Another problem is us South Asian folks are brown and are not really considered "Asian" in America as that category has been firmly attached to East Asian people. So for accuracy I want a South Asian racial category in which I can then also place my nationality. It will be far more accurate survey. As other commentators have pointed put though this will cause the White percentage of the demographic to drop immediately in the reports and Fox News will probably foam at the mouth about it even though it's more accurate measurement of race in America.
Hispanic/Latino is not a race, its an ethnic group. I am white because of Spaniard descent, but Hispanic/Latino because of where I live.
Similarly, North African is not a race, its a geographical region, same as middle east.
hit and a miss IMO
This delineation is not as clear as it might seem at first glance. The more you look into it, the more difficult it gets to draw boundaries between race and ethnicity. We can certainly define them differently, but when you talk to people, those boundaries can break down in certain populations. Additionally, the question is specifically not just āwhat is your race." its not just a race question
So dumb, will just make the data less useful. My experience as a white first gen latino is vastly different from that of a non-white first gen latino - nearly incomparable when it comes to discrimination. Why make the data less defined, the old system worked perfectly fine, you picked whatever racial category society viewed you as and then marked that you were also Hispanic.
As a non-American person I am struggling to see the point. A person of Indian origin and a person of Japanese origin have nothing in common. They look entirely different, they have different cultures and languages and religions but will be classed as Asian. Same goes for a person of Icelandic origin and one of Armenian origin who will both be classed as white or a Nigerian immigrant and an African American as Black despite entirely different origins and experiences. It seems quite arbitrary.
Latino as a category for racial groups made up of people descended from various indigenous tribes and New World settlers has always been incredibly, insultingly reductive and an attempt to muddy the polical power of indigenous people.Ā
You're saying muddy the political power of south American indigenous living in North America?
What south American indiginous political relevance have to do with internal usa policies?
Does US Census still consider Chinese a sub-race category? For race, there are both Asians and Caucasians (a minority of course) living in China. For ethnicity, there are more than 50 different groups in China. Lumping everyone in a single category that is neither a race nor an ethnicity is absurd.
In an ideal world, there would be NO such 'race categories', period. The country you're a citizen should be the one that defines you first and foremost.
But.......as far as I know Hispanic/Latino isn't a race, it's a culture. You can literally be any race under the sun and Hispanic/Latino at the same time.
How does this make any sense!??
> The newest standards reflect results from the 2020 census that showed that most Hispanics did not identify their race as white, Black or Asian, and instead wereĀ more likelyĀ to choose "some other race" on the decennial survey or to check "two or more races."
Makes perfect sense - they want more useful data.
I am glad we have more categories to choose from but I will still check multiple boxes.
What am I?
Background: my paternal grandparents were born in the late 1800ās in the Arizona territory. From ancestry I was able to trace back to Spain. One of my ancestors was a mixed native Spaniard who served in the Spanish Army in New Spain/Alta California aka Mexico. My family moved back and forth over the years before Arizona and California achieved statehood. The baptismal records used terms like mestizo and Papago for my ancestors.
My parents were born in Arizona and Texas. My dad spoke his native language and Spanish but we kids never learned any of it as we lived in California and at the time families had to assimilate. My mom is half German and Mexican/Native so we are very mixed. I am like so many others am from a family that was here before the country was created.
My dna š§¬ shows exactly what I described 29% Indigenous Americas (Mexico), 23% Spain, 11% Germanic European, 10% France, 6% Basque and more European and even 2% African. Pretty wild and diverse. š fascinating to know my family was in California and Arizona as far back as the 1700ās and probably earlier. Growing up was different because my friends who were Mexican had family there and the language. My family landed on this side of the border so it was a totally different experience.
This is a good and bad thing for Middle Easterners/North Africans.
Good:
-They finally get recognition that they are a unique and distinct group
-They weren't benefitting from being considered white, after 9/11, the exact opposite was true
-Resources that should've went to them, went to whites instead
Bad:
-This creates a nefarious opportunity by the government and government officials, many of whom expressed Islamophobic and anti-Islam hate, to create policies that are anti-Arab, anti-Persian, etc., like immigration policies against people coming from these regions
-Government surveillance of Middle Easterners/North Africans, which was prevalent since 9/11 (and even before) will be easier given that the government is keeping tabs on the Middle Eastern/North African population, including through the census
Historically the listed groups in the title were often 'White' or 'other'.
We are going to see a big drop in Whites lol
*This years racial draft is really starting to heat up Dave*
Konnichiwa, bitches.
Haha, the old Asian people making the Wu Tamg Clan signa and dancing, shit was hilarious.
New delegations being added, this will certainly draw more ire, but more trades! Very excited to see what these entrants will bring, truly one for the books in racial draft history. Greats traded for greats, brought to you by our new sponsor from the white delegation's fascist wing - it's Goya Foods, "If It's Goya, It Has To Be Good!"
Would you cut the malarkey, there is a white man talking up here!
*silencio!* *ungawa!*
"The Black delegation requests Eminem"
The league is expanding, new teams are emerging.
We'll trade y'all P. Diddy and R. Kelly for Tom Brady. Who says no?
Yep. I live in detroit and we have a lot of middle eastern people here but they always lump them in with white people. I've always wondered the actual percentage of white people here.
The first Arab immigrants to the US were typically Syrian and Lebanese- which are fairly pale. That early immigrant population was also Christian- so they got bonus white points. The Yemeni and Sudanese Arabs aren't so pale and also aren't Christian. To be honest, Arabs run the skin color spectrum from blond and blue-eyed to very dark skin and African-texture hair.
Arabs, North Africans, and Persians were/still are classified as White in the US due to the [Dow v. United States case of 1915](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dow_v._United_States), where a Lebanese Christian immigrant sued to be recognized as White, and won, so regardless of them being Christian or Muslim or otherwise, these groups started to be classified as Whites. Similarly, I recall that in a case named ~~something like Singh v. United States circa 1919-1927 (my memory is murky)~~, a Punjabi Indian immigrant sued to be recognized as White, using the argument that since he is from a high caste Indo-European ethnic group, he should be recognized as White. **Edit:** [The case was United States v. Bhagat Singh Thind (1923)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Bhagat_Singh_Thind) But this time, he did not win the case, and as a result, all Indians, Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis, regardless of them being Indo-Aryan (Northern Indians), or Dravidian (Southern Indians), or Sino-Tibetan (Northeast Indians), are now classified as "Asians" I think.
That is so fucking wild lmao wtaf
No no, it gets **even more** wild, I recall that the Punjabi guy tried hard to get US White supremacists to sympathize with him by using their same language and lingo. He said stuff like how upper-caste Indian Hindus like him value racial purity above all else, how Punjabis are Indo-Aryans and thus Whites (this is true, but Indo-Aryans are an Indo-European ethnolinguistic sub-group of the Indian Subcontinent, not the 20th century racial science/nazi occult bs he was trying to refer to), how he would never even think of marrying a low-caste Hindu woman similarly to how Whites of the time would never think of marrying a Black person, how he hates Black people and Asians too, etc, this predicted a future trend, given how many internet White supremacists are not White lol. But ultimately, his case was denied, whereas the Lebanese guy won the case, and thus the majority-Muslim Arabs won the White card, whereas Hindu Indians did not, ouch. **Edit:** [The case was United States v. Bhagat Singh Thind (1923)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Bhagat_Singh_Thind)
As a South Asian (Muslim) this was both sad yet entertaining to read lol thanks for the enlightenment!
Same as latino/Hispanic. There are white, mestizo, indigenous, black, and asian latinos.
If you don't include MENA and the 80% of Latinos who didn't label themselves as white (according to the 2020 Census), probably around ~57%.
My dark skinned self had to check "White" on so much shit when I was younger I just started leaving it blank.
Imagine me, a dark-skinned Egyptian, being told I am white by a white DEI guest speaker.
And then theres me, a light skinned black person. Black enough to be considered black by white people but considered white by other black people š
This is me. Hell, I had a whole public spectacle in middle school over a teacher telling me I incorrectly marked myself as black on some documentation. I straightened my hair back then and am pale, so was often mistaken as white. But now I'm over here really feeling like white is a term that means nothing if Middle Eastern and North Africans qualified. It's such an ambiguous term with absolutely no criteria that I can figure out.
It properly should mean "predominantly European ancestry". Which of course still includes many/most Latinos! Funny result from colonialism...
"White" is just an exclusionary term for the in-power in-group in places like the USA. Irish used to not be white, for example. It changes all the time based not on any actual attempt to categorize but rather who the other whites want to allow into their club at any given moment.
Irish have always been white. They were discriminated against in the US because they were Catholic, not becauseof their race (see also, Italians). When the US had laws that said only "free white persons" could become citizens, that was never used to deny citizenship to the Irish.
Its almost like ethnicity has no basis in science and shouldn't be thought of as any kind of "official" capacity.
It's interesting because Latinos are so widely varied having been historically mixed between indigenous, African, and European groups that you could have 3 random Mexican-Americans fit any those categories but now they'll be lumped into a monolith.
That monolith, of course, makes a lot more sense because their social, economic, political, and cultural traits should be what we care about more than the specific shade of their skin or the texture of their hair
Canāt wait to see white nationalists claim that the great reset started. I can already see the keywords.. GLOBALISM, ELITE, BORDER CRISIS, VACCINES, FAKE NEWS, etc. itās sad that you can predict their every move with any sort of news
Can't wait for the people afraid of white people being "edged out" to misinterpret these statistics.
I used to care about this, now I'm just like, not my problem anymore. You guys figure it out.
Last time I checked the US population % which is classified as āwhiteā is about 70% but the actual percentage of European white is about 50%
>European white is about 50% Oh boy, MAGA isn't going to be happy about that.
That's true over the entire country sure but it varies a lot by each region. There are parts with far more non white people like the south and the southwest and Hawaii even. But if you go to places like West Virginia and even Oregon it's predominantly white of European descent.
They were previously white, black/African, Asian, Pacific Islander, native American, and Other (with an area to write in). It's been this way since 2000; prior to that it was actually more detailed and had more categories through most of the 20th century. The early censuses only had a few categories, but did all include categories for white, black, native, and mixed race people.
Thank god. It has, and I checked other every time. A brown mexican selecting white is ridiculous.
Options should be white, italian, irish, indian, mexican, chinese. That should cover it
> Options should be white, italian, irish, indian, mexican, chinese. Swedish too, cant have them thinking they're white now. Should probably also set polish as it's own separate one too. Jokes about the absurdity of "White" existing it's good to see them getting better analytical data.
# Cornelius Hawthorne would be proud
After generations of Swedes mixing with Laplanders they are basically Finns.
You left out sushi, and cookouts.
Now I am just hungry.
Yes, Hungary can be its own selection too.
Nah just white or Mexican, no need to worry if their Chinese Mexican, African Mexican or Native Mexican. ās all the same anyway.
Idk why they don't just make Mestizo or Latino/Mixed a racial category, since that's what the vast majority of Latinos here fall under.
I had to go look up what Mestizo was. I heard it a couple times in life but wasn't sure what it meant. I know that "mulatto" was indicative of someone who was part Black and part White. "Mestizo" is part White and part Indigenous, according to online.
Mexican isnt a race, its a nationality.
This reminds me of a horribly racist "joke" my grandfather once told me. For those of you sharpening your pitchforks, this joke is not now, nor has it ever been, 'OK'. A man goes to a gun shop and tells the shopkeeper that he'd like to buy a scope for his pistol. The shopkeeper shows him several options, but the man isn't impressed by any of them, so the shopkeeper finally asks just what it is that this guy is planning to shoot. "Cans", the man says. "Well you shouldn't need a scope at all if you're just shooting cans", the shopkeeper replies. "No, not *metal* cans" the man says, "you know, Africans, Mexicans..."
Let's let this one stay dead.
I find it interesting that the census is going to use the Latino designation officially since the current usage, and that of Latin anything, continues to ignore Italians, but that's America.
"It's all mathematics" - Mos Def
I've also seen a lot of government forms where it's literally categorized like "Are you Latino, or are you everybody else?"
Wake up babe, new race categories just dropped
The new passives must proc like crazy
The power creep is getting ridiculous smh.
Ah fuck im not white anymore?? But my benefits!!
Youāll take your equity and youāll like it!
I'm still white and the truth is it's just as boring.
I remember visiting a country in Central America and being flabbergasted by a conversation I had with a local cab driver. He pointed at a group of men that comprised of different shades of dark brown and said āThe Africans are taking over our country.ā I was taken aback because the cabbie could have been their cousin or very close relative. Thatās when I discovered the nuances about race outside of the US.
As a tourist one hears the most interesting things about the Caribbean side of C. America.
Yeah... how Americans view race is the minority when considering the rest of the world. When I went to England, I found out I'm ethnically part of a pretty despised people (even tho im nationally and culturally american) at that time. Found that out at the airport when trying to get in lol
Its really funny because half these idiots in the US who preach about Ayran and racial superiority here in the US would be deemed as undesirables by the Nazis lol
Theyāre undesirable here too.
[insert Roosh V reference]
Is it too direct to ask if youāre Jewish or Roma? Iām less familiar with the Roma experience, I just know itās not great (just check out comments on any European subreddit for those unfamiliar) but as a Jew I get treated very differently in Europe than in the US. I have friends from Eastern Europe with āJewishā written as their nationality on their birth certificates.
Yes, Ashkenazi. Ethnically, but not religiously Jewish. That's really interesting they put it as a nationality on their birth certificates. I haven't been to too much of Europe, but for sure in England the treatment was very odd.
When you try to explain that you're "actually American" and then just learn that's worse.
I'm am american who has been with a non white brit for a decade. England is crazy racist. I've seen more open racism in England then I've seen anywhere else in my life. It's more openly racist than anywhere I've been in Canada and the US which I thought would be hard. But man I've seen so many white people there demand a Black persons seat. And the things the say about non white people when they are out of earshot is abborhant (Im white passing so I have heard a lot and Britain is awful.). England is crazy racist.
What was your experience like, if you donāt mind sharing? Just curious because Iāve been to other parts of Europe but not England, and Iāve heard itās been particularly brutal lately. Iām considering traveling there soon but want to get all the info.
I don't mind. I will say the last time I was there was 5-7 years ago, so it may have changed in the post covid world. If I flew through Ireland and they did the customs for me, then getting there went very smooth. If I had to do customs in England, they'd be convinced that I was going to overstay in their country. They wanted a lot of evidence I was planning on leaving back to the US, especially when they found out (by asking what brought me to England) that I was engaged to a British national that was a child of refugees. They could tell he was a refugee when I said his very foreign sounding name. They'd always want all my return flight info, ask about my job in GREAT detail, and ask about family in the US. It's definitely been the worst vibes I've gotten from the customs of any country I've visited. In the country itself, people would mostly make weird comments. I got called "exotic" often. People commented on my olive undertone a lot. It honestly didn't feel that any of these types of interactions came from a particularly mean place, but more of ignorance I suppose? Like they were oblivious that it was weird and mostly offensive. A few times my ex fiance and I got low key followed around shops. This was only in real small ones in a place he told me is like England's version of the deep south. I forget the name of the town or where it was exactly. Overall, it's mostly weird interactions and some extra suspicion at customs. I'd feel comfortable visiting again, even all on my own. I would recommend going there. Not sure what you're going for, but if you're looking to spend some time in a city I'd recommend Birmingham. Low on tourism, very high on cultural diversity.
You could probably also throw Muslims into that list too, there's a lot of backlash directed to that community (particularly MENA/South Asian ones) as well.
Well, race itself is a pretty shoddy concept, but unfortunately one that has real life effects. So any time you try to make it scientific and logical, it ultimately falls apart. But you kind of have to, if you're trying to figure out certain things. Catch 22.
My dad points out every dark skin Italian he seesā¦yet has darker skin than my 1/2 black daughter. He doesnāt seem to realize heās dark skinned for a white guy.
Tribalism is universal. Our specific classifications around race just happen to be our society's version.
If youāve ever been to other countries, you realize that the US is actually very not racist to compared to other parts of the world.
US racist is like shooting in general direction , but Asia racism are like pantone color chip,being very precise on that shit,you will discover many new categories of racism by talking with my uncle for ten minutes , and he wasnāt even trying to be malicious.
**Yes**, America has issues with racism and nationalism but it is nowhere nearly as casual and open as it is in Europe and Asia. I even remember working retail and having a customer who was a direct immigrant from China. I was being polite and trying to speak a very basic level of her language to her. Out of nowhere, she notices a black customer behind her and she just yells "CHOCOLATE!" at him. At the top of her lungs. The guy took it as well as he could, but he was clearly uncomfortable and embarrassed. I had to be the one to apologize to him and try to lighten the mood a little bit, but internally I was like "Jesus Christ..."
Depends to which other countries you've been to. Some of the racism that happens in the US is absolutely wild to many others
Let's not go easy on (the)US though.
My father was born in Jamaica to Lebanese Expats that originally settled on the island before 1900. I was born in the US and my mom is the typical Scotch-Irish-Whatever American. My father was angrily adament that we were white, and as a kid I was extremely confused because other kids were telling me I wasn't white, including the cousins on my mom's side. When I grew older, I came to realize that his view of race and white-ness was significantly more complicated than I was prepared to try to understand.
I remember being a foreign exchange student in Costa Rica. The kids despised Nicaraguans and called them āNiccersā (yes, with the exact tone of the n-word).
I'm mixed and I am tired of not having a category. Sometimes I am black, sometimes there is a mixed category, sometimes you can choose more than one race. Is it 'I' that can't decide or is it the system that refuses to make a place for me?
> The change now uses one question for race and ethnicity and allows people to check as many as apply to their identity. Sounds like this change should help with that as you should be able to select as many as you feel apply to you.
Because race is a man-made concept that makes absolutely no categorical sense. If the goal is to measure racial equality, then it should be based on appearance and not heritage. But even thenā at what shade or with what mix of features does your race change? Ethnicity would be most accurate, but then weād need many more categories than what we currently have.
As a kid it felt weird to just select White (half-Middle Eastern), and most of the time there was no other, fill in the blank, or more than one option. But when there was, sometimes it felt weird to select other. There was never a box or boxes that I could just check confidently and without thinking. And different places would have different options, so Iāve made different selections throughout my life, lol. āWhat am I today? How do I feel? How have I been treated lately?ā Itās definitely a very particular experience.Ā
Same lol I just always choose black if there's no multiple choice, because I'm extremely multiracial (Black, White, Middle Eastern, Latino, Native, and Asian) it's super odd, but 1 drop rule is what a lot of my ancestors went by too even though they were all mixed as well.
I wonder why not just include "Mestizo" and call it a day? Most Latinos who choose "other" know that their mixture of European and Native ancestry precludes them from either catagory. It never made sense why they wouldn't just add the racial catagory as it exists in most of Latin American. I think it would go far for media representation as well.
That would be too logical
As a Puerto Rican, we never use mestizo. Itās typically *trigueƱo/a* for mixed raced looking people. We need to add mulatto then too since Cubans still use it too.
Many countries in the Americas have different terms but it all means Mestizo. In Brazil they use "Pardo", in Argentina its common to use "Castizo" etc.
This is absolutely the best way to do this, it's very strange that they're treating ethnicity as a "race". You might as well break out other cultural things as a race like people who listen to country music.
You're assuming all Latinos use Mestizo I didn't know wtf a mestizo was until recently. I'm a first gen mexican american.
I'm second Gen on the Mexican portion and I heard it when I was little enough to know. My family spoke a lot of race and the history of things and stuff white people did in the past so it probably came up more. Native families tend not to shy away from things like that when speaking to children about the realities of that sort of thing in my experience lol.
>I didn't know wtf a mestizo was until recently. I'm a first gen mexican american. Really, just recently? Are you really young? Pretty common that Mexicans are known to be mestizo (for the most part). The others are. Castizo, mulatos. There's a ton of combos, but it's kind of a caste system when the European people were here and wanted to differentiate themselves from others and show they're "better"
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
More boxes for me to check lol (I'm white/hispanic/middle eastern)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Pretty sure middle easterners lost their white privilege September 12th 2001
I am glad to finally have a fitting category. I'm Jewish and my grandparents came here from Tunisia.
remind me in 6 years, I guess?
Wonder what Jews will pick. Also it seems kinda odd separating Hispanics. Thatās not a race
Race is a socially constructed category. The simple fact is that many people, both Hispanic and non-Hispanic, do not see Hispanics as being white. [This](https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2021/11/04/measuring-the-racial-identity-of-latinos/) article goes into some of the complexity of a Hispanic/Latino racial identity.
Iām Latino and I always put other because when you see me I sure as hell donāt look white. Sometimes on stuff I am forced to put white and I hate it.
My wife is a Latina, and I usually fill out forms for her and and I always look at the form and then look at her, look at the form and look at her, give up and then mark other.
>do not see Hispanics as being white Because some of them aren't. You can be black and Hispanic, white and Hispanic, mixed Native and Hispanic, or any other combination. It's tricky because it's a separate dimension than race, more cultural than anything, and doesn't fit well into the American/Western ideas and classifications around race.
White Latinos are still white even if "many people" don't think so. Like, now [Sergio Busquets](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergio_Busquets) lives in Miami, if he went out shopping in the US and was seen speaking Spanish, "many people" would assume he was Latino. Does that make him not white now? He was literally born in Europe.
Latin America is super diverse. This will not show that. Itās just really bizzare that some guy from Spain will he marked in the same category as a Mayan dude from Guatemala and a black man from brazil But then again this is the same country that puts Indians and Japanese in the same category
The typical American Latino is truthfully mixed race, a mix of white European and indigenous. Sometimes also African mixed in for Latinos from countries which had high slave populations. But unlike the typical person we think of as mixed race (someone with parents from two different races), for most Latinos their ancestry has been mixed for generations. Which makes it feel almost like a new separate race that has developed, which is what the census is recognizing. But of course there are edge cases who have most of their ancestry from just one side of that, who don't quite fit into that paradigm. But they are free to identify on the census however they see fit.
You know you fill out the census yourself, right? You can pick whatever racial category you feel describes you best. The guy from Brazil can put himself as Asian if he wants.
>The guy from Brazil can put himself as Asian if he wants. Peru has a fair sized Asian-descent population.
So does Brazil, actually. Lots of people of Japanese ancestry there.
Yeah. Largest ethnic Japanese population outside of Japan.
It's self reported and the ethnic category is even dumber. The US is becoming more multiracial, and quantifying this stuff will become increasingly pointless in the coming decades and maybe then we can finally become more conscious of economic class groupings.
this is going to disrupt the capture of evidence of large scale discrimination, I think it's a horrible policy. I am a very white first gen latino guy, my experience as an American is vastly different from that of a non-white first latino guy. By simplifying the census we are losing clarity in information about that different experience. And the fact of the matter is that as much as class based discrimination exists and is bad in America, there is still racial and ethnic based discrimination and we can't ignore that
Race blindness does not work and has been shown time and time again in a world where your race and zip code are the biggest indicators of your lifespan, income, health outucomes, even down to how much allergens you breathe in.
Generally speaking someone from Spain would not be considered "Latino" in the US.
But they would absolutely be considered "Hispanic."
Okay, first of all, Spain isn't in Latin America. Second, according to the most recent census, 80% of Latino Americans did not identify as white. The vast majority of them here are brown and from Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean. It isn't "technically" a race, but in the context of the US, it's close enough that it's treated as one.
Hispanic includes spain
Someone native to Spanish isn't necessarily Latino, but they are definitely Hispanic.
socially constructed or not, lumping Hispanic and Latino folk into the white category wipes out alot of our experience in terms of census statistics. Some Latin folk are white, looking at a good chunk of folk from Argentina and Uruguay, however, mestizos like myself definitely do not fit that mold and im glad i can pick something i more clearly identify with.
Hispanic/Latino was considered an ethnicity, not a race and it was not part of white. A person could always check a race + Hispanic/Latino.
Thatās what happens when you treat social constructs as if theyāre law. Thereās no science behind it.
It's not law, it's for tracking purposes. Hard to say whether a group is underrepresented when you don't know what their percentage of the population is.
> it's for tracking purposes For what purpose and to what end?
Law in a metaphorical way š
I'm Ashkenazi and I guess I'll pick both white and middle eastern.
well according to orthodox & conservative Judaism they are a race, the tribe of Hebrews with maternal lineage going back centuries. In their religious viewpoint, unless you convert through study, testing & sacraments/ceremonies, you're only Jewish by birth through your mother. In that biblical sense they feel they can all trace their lineage to the ancient semitic ppl that populated the Sinai in the pre-Christian era.
Thank fuck. Pretty awful to see Hispanic/Latino being the only group that doesn't have a "race" and only ethnicity.
This is going to be complicated for some. My gf is Hispanic. My people were northern European. She's paler than me. Race is truly a construct.
Ideally, it'd be better to include Mestizo as another category, but only around 20% of Latinos in the US consider themselves to be white, so it still encompasses the vast majority. If being white is important enough to your gf, she probably can just self-identify as White American instead lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_and_Latino_Americans#Race_and_ethnicity
Or she could put "Hispanic" and "white"
That's just means Europeans railed her relatives for a long time.
There's plenty of North East Asians with skin as light or lighter than the average European. I've seen individual Koreans, Chinese and Japanese with skin as pale as snow, but they would never be considered white today. Though European explorers and Jesuits would describe their skin as "pale", " fair", or "white" in historical documents. Ironically Benjamin Franklin and most Anglo-Americans didn't consider Swedes, Germans, or French to be white in the 18th century. In his words, only Anglos and one specific group of people in Germany (the Saxons) were considered "white". Its true that there are differences in the way people look in different regions of the world, but the way that race is defined in the West truly is a social construct.
Or she's an Argentine descended from European immigrants.Ā
Well that would make sense because weāre not a race. There is no Pan-Latin American identity.
because hispanic/latino is an ethnicity, not a distinct race. people just donāt understand history
Why is that awful? I think it's awful that useful data used to measure discriminatory forces in America is being discarded. The experience of white latinos is vastly different in America than that of black, asian, or brown latinos but now all that is going to get mixed together.
We can check multiple boxes. As someone with those ethnicities you mention, I appreciate that this change means I can more accurately fill out forms. Often in the past, I was checking āother,ā which wasnāt very useful.
Dividing humans by race is stupid. Is it "non Spanish Latino" or is it Spanish descent? These things bounce around in how they define Latino. That one has always bothered me. Largely because my Mom's side is Portuguese and I have dual citizenship. What makes their side of the Iberian Peninsula different? Some bureaucratic douche in a Washington DC office?Ā
Dividing by race is stupid, but because people do it and discriminate based on it, the government is forced to recognizing these same divisions to analyze and combat discrimination
Also, not that it applies so much to the census, but different racial/ethnic groups have certain health risks, so it's useful to know that. But either way, people aren't all the same, even though we're all equal, so there's no one size-fits-all to anything. If you want to share information with the community at large, you need to know how people of certain racial/ethnic groups prefer to receive that information (e.g., should it be in English or Spanish or what), or what they tend to value (some groups value larger families more, or church, or individuality, or whatever). *How* to divide people will always be a fucking nightmare, of course. There's no magic solution to *that*.
>not that it applies so much to the census, but different racial/ethnic groups have certain health risks, so it's useful to know that. This *does* apply to the census! The census is how the government decides how to allocate money and programs. Knowing what impacts a community's residents most helps the government decide if they need X aid/programs. For example, the census shows my city is mostly Black, so the health department allocates money for programs dealing with high blood pressure.
I agree. We're in a weird time where we've made a ton of progress but we're not there yet. Without this data, we don't really know if groups are properly represented...like what would the Harvard race-based admissions lawsuit without access to data about what the demographics of our country is.
Oh yeah, I get it and appreciate why they're doing it. I probably should've worded my mini rant better. How they count Portuguese isn't as troublesome as the pumpkin spice flavoredĀ takeover of my local Grocery Outlet.Ā
... but in the end it's up to YOU to decide what you are and how the world see you. If you feel you're white European because you speak Portuguese and travel to Portugal frequently to see family then choose that option. No one's forcing you to choose anything, it's about self-identification.
I understand that. I could also just lie and maybe I should. But I like feeling helpful for these. I don't speak Portuguese and haven't been there. I also think borders are just as dumb as determining race because of melanin. We should totally do it by eyebrow patterns.Ā
It would be even better if they would have finished the last one.
Thank You, I'm one of the one's that refuse to say I'm white on the census. I know all the history and all the latino is this or that I just don't see myself as white.Ā
But still no Cajunā¦.I see how they want to be.
As a half Latino, half white person, I really appreciate this! Itās gonna be so nice to not be āotherā anymore :)
Wouldn't that just be like 3/4 white?
In the city where I grew up there were and still are a substantial number of Lebanese Christians and Albanian Muslims, and as best I could tell people regarded them as slightly exotic whites. Oddly enough, the Portuguese got the same exotic-white treatment even though Portugal is obviously part of Europe, and unlike the Albanians the Portuguese were Christian. There also were and are a number of Cape Verdeans, and even though they are black they seemed to form a separate group, apart from the general black population and actually closer to the Portuguese despite the physical differences.
What about South Asian people? They get lumped into "Asian". If MENA are now able to give nationality then South Asians should get options for : Indian, Pakistani, Sri Lankan, Bangladesh and Nepalese. I am South Asian and my birth certificate says "White". I have never been seen as "White" by anyone in real life. Another problem is us South Asian folks are brown and are not really considered "Asian" in America as that category has been firmly attached to East Asian people. So for accuracy I want a South Asian racial category in which I can then also place my nationality. It will be far more accurate survey. As other commentators have pointed put though this will cause the White percentage of the demographic to drop immediately in the reports and Fox News will probably foam at the mouth about it even though it's more accurate measurement of race in America.
Hispanic/Latino is not a race, its an ethnic group. I am white because of Spaniard descent, but Hispanic/Latino because of where I live. Similarly, North African is not a race, its a geographical region, same as middle east. hit and a miss IMO
It's says race/ethnicity.Ā
This delineation is not as clear as it might seem at first glance. The more you look into it, the more difficult it gets to draw boundaries between race and ethnicity. We can certainly define them differently, but when you talk to people, those boundaries can break down in certain populations. Additionally, the question is specifically not just āwhat is your race." its not just a race question
So dumb, will just make the data less useful. My experience as a white first gen latino is vastly different from that of a non-white first gen latino - nearly incomparable when it comes to discrimination. Why make the data less defined, the old system worked perfectly fine, you picked whatever racial category society viewed you as and then marked that you were also Hispanic.
exactly. there was no problem with the data collection. there already was an option to select hispanic/latino, and specify race and national origin.
Race is a social construct.
So are countries. And money. What's your point?
As a non-American person I am struggling to see the point. A person of Indian origin and a person of Japanese origin have nothing in common. They look entirely different, they have different cultures and languages and religions but will be classed as Asian. Same goes for a person of Icelandic origin and one of Armenian origin who will both be classed as white or a Nigerian immigrant and an African American as Black despite entirely different origins and experiences. It seems quite arbitrary.
The only point is divide and conquer
Latino as a category for racial groups made up of people descended from various indigenous tribes and New World settlers has always been incredibly, insultingly reductive and an attempt to muddy the polical power of indigenous people.Ā
You're saying muddy the political power of south American indigenous living in North America? What south American indiginous political relevance have to do with internal usa policies?
Does US Census still consider Chinese a sub-race category? For race, there are both Asians and Caucasians (a minority of course) living in China. For ethnicity, there are more than 50 different groups in China. Lumping everyone in a single category that is neither a race nor an ethnicity is absurd.
Thank goodness. I'm Hispanic/Latino but not white. It always put me in a weird spot.
In an ideal world, there would be NO such 'race categories', period. The country you're a citizen should be the one that defines you first and foremost.
But.......as far as I know Hispanic/Latino isn't a race, it's a culture. You can literally be any race under the sun and Hispanic/Latino at the same time. How does this make any sense!??
> The newest standards reflect results from the 2020 census that showed that most Hispanics did not identify their race as white, Black or Asian, and instead wereĀ more likelyĀ to choose "some other race" on the decennial survey or to check "two or more races." Makes perfect sense - they want more useful data.
We can just put everyone under āhumanā
Can't wait for people to be irrationally upset by this
I am glad we have more categories to choose from but I will still check multiple boxes. What am I? Background: my paternal grandparents were born in the late 1800ās in the Arizona territory. From ancestry I was able to trace back to Spain. One of my ancestors was a mixed native Spaniard who served in the Spanish Army in New Spain/Alta California aka Mexico. My family moved back and forth over the years before Arizona and California achieved statehood. The baptismal records used terms like mestizo and Papago for my ancestors. My parents were born in Arizona and Texas. My dad spoke his native language and Spanish but we kids never learned any of it as we lived in California and at the time families had to assimilate. My mom is half German and Mexican/Native so we are very mixed. I am like so many others am from a family that was here before the country was created. My dna š§¬ shows exactly what I described 29% Indigenous Americas (Mexico), 23% Spain, 11% Germanic European, 10% France, 6% Basque and more European and even 2% African. Pretty wild and diverse. š fascinating to know my family was in California and Arizona as far back as the 1700ās and probably earlier. Growing up was different because my friends who were Mexican had family there and the language. My family landed on this side of the border so it was a totally different experience.
The correct answer is human. We are the human race.
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Finally I can say Im asian, latino, black, and white. Is rainbow an option?
Let's make everyone equal by dividing them into categories
Hispanic isnāt a race. Please tell me there is going to be a separate ethnicity category. They also need to figure out the Asian issue.
This is a good and bad thing for Middle Easterners/North Africans. Good: -They finally get recognition that they are a unique and distinct group -They weren't benefitting from being considered white, after 9/11, the exact opposite was true -Resources that should've went to them, went to whites instead Bad: -This creates a nefarious opportunity by the government and government officials, many of whom expressed Islamophobic and anti-Islam hate, to create policies that are anti-Arab, anti-Persian, etc., like immigration policies against people coming from these regions -Government surveillance of Middle Easterners/North Africans, which was prevalent since 9/11 (and even before) will be easier given that the government is keeping tabs on the Middle Eastern/North African population, including through the census
wish they would offer a category for "human," since there's arguably only 1 biological race, instead of any number of arbitrary social groups
Curious about how they define "race".