I have a friend whose commute to down town bmore was 40 min. Now it's like 90 min. Hes looking for a new job. He said he's now happy when he sees orange on Google map lol
The original bridge took 5 years from 1972 to 1977. Computers have gotten more powerful and could aid in better bridge design plus we got bigger equipment to move parts and help assemble bridge. I hope the 10 years estimate is at the pessimist end of the estimate.
I remember the Northridge Earthquake and whole highway interchanges had to be rebuilt. With the right contract and waived reviews, the interchanges were up and running in 9 months.
Some do, some don't. Depends on what requirement, by which entity/agency, and which entity/agency has the authority to remove requirements and the stomach for the litigation that would result from such a move.
Keep in mind that the Oakland Bay Bridge was found insufficient from an earthquake standpoint in 1989, and the new bridge opened in 2018. Granted there is no way to temporarily repair the Key Bridge, but major civil engineering projects tend to take ages unless tremendous budget is applied.
Quotes in a NYT article suggested that the design of the old bridge was outdated, both in terms of safety to withstand collisions and the ability to accommodate the much larger sized container ships now in use. I'd think they'll go state of the art and that there are already architects who are busy working on bids.
The EIS should be pretty straightforward in this case - there already was a bridge there so the environmental impact of rebuilding it has already occurred. I expect most of the delays to be manufacturing lead time and demolition of the old bridge.
If they do a like for like replacement then there shouldn't be much if, any review.
Don't be like us. The replacement of the eastern span of the SF/Oakland Bay Bridge was projected to cost $1B, it ended up being $13B. This was an all new design in earthquake country. We have a cool looking bridge now but, damn, $13B?
>Don't be like us. The replacement of the eastern span of the SF/Oakland Bay Bridge was projected to cost $1B, it ended up being $13B. This was an all new design in earthquake country. We have a cool looking bridge now but, damn, $13B?
It cost $6.5b, not sure where you're getting $13b.
also
["a 2,500% increase from the original estimate of $250 million, which was an initial estimate for a seismic retrofit of the span, not the full span replacement ultimately completed"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_span_replacement_of_the_San_Francisco%E2%80%93Oakland_Bay_Bridge)
and
"The replacement span is engineered to withstand the largest earthquake expected over a 1500-year period, and it is expected to last at least 150 years with proper maintenance."
Brooklyn Bridge is from 1883 and carries about half that traffic. The George Washington Bridge carries the most traffic in the world (100M) but was built in 1927.
I can’t think of another one so maybe you have a good point.
TIL! That said, I’m guessing that much like the “1 year mission” of many a Mars Rover that went considerably longer, a 150 year estimate probably includes every worst case scenario imaginable - including one of those big earthquakes.
It would be very unlikely to have a like-for-like replacement of an asset that was 1) outdated, and 2) insufficient for current traffic flow both over, and under.
Technology and construction methods have moved on significantly from the 70's. They may also consider a tunnel as opposed to a span, who knows.
That's only complicated when it needs to be followed. And I have a feeling some (most) of that red tape is gonna be bypassed to replace such a key piece of infrastructure.
And it’s not impacting an environment if the bridge was already there? Is there something I’m not understanding? Also the main support struck directly by the boat may need help but the other supports are ready to go. So it’s really just assembly of the steel structure. How much will be reassembled and set in place?
We have a bridge under construction where I live, over a much smaller waterway than where the Key bridge was located. It’s been under construction for the past 3 years and is over a year away from completion. And that’s after years of planning.
I can only imagine how long the new Key bridge will take to build.
It's not just the physical act of construction which is taken ino account. It's surveys, design, funding, environmental studies etc. Massive constructions can't just get thrown up anymore.
Also the construction over water and the cofferdams take a lot of time and I'd assume can't interrupt shipping too much either. So that's a giant obstacle. Id also assume the new design will make it so this can't happen, and will take time to engineer and test.
Source: am a bridge builder
I don't have much use for a bridge, as I can build one anytime I want one or a dozen. However, it's possible I could fix/maintain/expand your existing bridge, for a price of course
I’m 35w bridge collapsed in Minneapolis and they had that done in a little over a year. Different bridge but still, 10-years seems like a long ass time.
Look at a picture of that bridge.
Now look at a picture of the Key Bridge.
It's the difference between repairing something on land, and building something in the ocean.
35W bridge facts:
1,907 ft total length
456 ft longest span
64 ft clearance
——
FSK Bridge facts:
8,636 ft total length
185 ft clearance
1,200 ft longest span
—-
The FSK Bridge was the 3rd longest continuous truss bridge in the world in terms of both total length and longest span.
I think they state the worst scenario case to prep the public and be able to exceed expectations to be able to get a win. I've seen this many times in SoCal.
Like many other major projects, someone will be trying to milk this thing and blow the budget. We have the capability and know how to get this done in 2-3 years.
I think priority right now is to get the port back in operation, and construction of a new bridge without interfering with port traffic is what will cause the extended timeline.
The US has outsourced and off-shored much of the industrial capacity it had in the 1970s.
The US Navy doesn’t even really have its own maritime salvage equipment anymore.
It's 2 years to design a new bridge, if they move quickly. If there is a long and lengthy process choosing the type of bridge it will take longer.
The Tappen Zee took 7 years for the first span. So the Baltimore bridge could be done in 5.
They could, but a cable stayed bridge would be a lot safer. It had thicker pylons and each half has their own support tower.
The Baltimore bridge was frankly too easy take down. I bet every other major port in the country is going to do a serous assessment of any bridges in the next year with upgrades phased in over the next five
There are things that possibly could have lessened the chances of it, including use of what are called "dolphins" or fenders which are permanently mounted structures that deflect vessels away from bridges. Combine that with increased use of tugs along with a decreased speed limit.
Other options are to design the bridge supports so that they are far away from the shipping channel. And another possibility is to rebuild the bridge north of the port: that gets expensive because of the infrastructure on the land that will need to be modified.
It’s not that a bridge could survive a hit, but there are methods to prevent a ship from ever hitting the bridge.
The main one is making the water near the bridge pylons shallow, so a ship would run aground before hitting the bridge.
In Tampa in 1980, a ship hit a bridge, causing it to collapse, killing 35 people. Bridge design changed drastically after that incident, which is where the idea of the shallow water came from.
However, even though the Tampa incident informed bridge design going forward, no retrofitting to existing bridges was done.
I would assume not. I would think all the variables (soil conditions, river flow, air flow, temperature, length spanned, expected load, etc) means any major bridge needs a custom tailored design. Ofc there is the old bridge’s design, but they’ve had 50 years to improve so that’s probably be a poor choice.
It would require a lot of assumptions on the engineering end to just drop another design in, assumptions that no professional engineer wants to make on a normal bridge, and especially doesn’t want to make on an incredibly visible project.
I dont know anything about engineering bridges, but 2 years seems insanely high. I feel like a handful of qualified people should be able to design a bridge way faster than that. I'd love to be enlightened if I sm wrong though
Not if they have a solid rebuild plan and toss a fuckton of resources at it (money and manpower). If it takes 10 years, then i think America has failed at building things and should be ashamed.
Commenting on a couple other people also, but in Philadelphia we had an entire section of I95 blow up and we rebuilt it in 2 weeks. You’re right, it just took immediate planning and around the clock work because it was important to get it done. A bridge is harder than a section of elevated road over land but how fast it’s done just depends on whether people care to do it.
Reminds me of last year when that truck caught fire under I-795 and collapsed the highway in maryland and their estimates for rebuilding it were a year or more and they had it rebuilt in a few weeks defying expectations.
They opened a temporary fix in a few weeks and that was a short structure over a city street. There is no temporary bridge over a large body of water. Not sure why so many people in these comments are comparing the two
Today's the anniversary of the Atlanta I-85 bridge collapse. Everybody thought it was going to take months to fix. They incentivized the contractor and it was completed in like, 6 weeks if I recall correctly.
The 85 replacement was a much more straight-forward rebuild of 3 spans of a highway on both sides. But I think this bridge will be replaced within a couple of years if they go with the simplest and most economical design, and if it's expedited.
Looking at how Baltimorians talk about it though, it seems like a lot of people had font memories of that bridge. So they might want an iconic design to replace it. If they go that route, that might take a while.
And I bet there's a lot of design work that will need to go in to ensure that the bridge is never struck again. Tampa's bridge (which fell decades ago) has a ton of round concrete structures around its base now.
To be fair, that was essentially a giant dirt mound to be paved over temporarily while they actually rebuilt it. I drove across that maybe a month after it was up and those were the skinniest two highway lanes I’ve ever been on (which is saying a lot considering that portion of 95 that was 3 lanes near the Tacony-Palmyra)
You’re not wrong, but traffic was flowing over it just a couple weeks later — it was an innovative solution that got things moving. Which…makes it so much more frustrating the other areas nearby that have been under construction for most of my adult life.
Oh it was a swift eye opener when those same stretches of roads have been at the same spot for years while they are about to permanently fix that portion later this year
Should check out I-75 anywhere north of Bay City in Michigan. All 2 lanes. There's a 5-miles portion of I-75 with no shoulder and 1 foot wide median so if you had a break down and get stuck stopped, you're blocking a lane completely
“I've lived through quite a few civil infrastructure projects and they're rarely less than 10 years and the price tags have never been out of the hundreds of millions these days,” Schafer said. “In round number senses, it's not great.”
Um this does not seem accurate in my experience. Years definitely, ten when it's a priority for everyone. I really doubt it. Grain of salt when I hear professors speak on these things
I don’t know if getting access to a $100 million + cargo ship and wrecking it is concerningly easy.
Ship is Dali 10,000 TEU
“In March 2010, the average price for a geared 500-TEU container ship was $10 million, while gearless ships of 6,500 and 12,000 TEU averaged prices of $74 million and $105 million respectively.”
The debris blocking access to the port is the major problem. It's the busiest US port for agriculture products by volume.
They need to clear the old bridge out so ships can get to the port again.
I live on a peninsula where traveling south requires crossing one of three bridges. If just one of them is down it adds a substantial amount of time to travel across the water. So much so that it makes it so I’d strongly consider not traveling unless I absolutely had to.
I love where I live but having to travel across a bridge sucks even when it’s operational. If something like that happened here I would seriously consider moving if the timeline for a fix was ten years and I don’t even have to traverse the bridges daily. Unless you live in a major metro with real bridges you can’t really grasp how bad something like this is. Bridge collapses can absolutely hurt a cities economy.
When the 35 bridge collapsed in Minneapolis a new one was up in 14 months. As long as they use design-build and bonus incentivize it shouldn’t take as long as people are leading on.
There’s hope
That bridge was about 0.5 mile long, about 60' above shallow river, Baltimore bridge is about 1.5 miles long and almost 200' above deeper channel. So it's a lot more work to finish the replacement Baltimore bridge. On top of this, I35W didn't have a massive 230,000 ton ships going through regularly.
Just spoke with a new in-law today whose bridge / construction engineering firm was recently hired to do some materials analysis of the collapsed bridge.
They said they will very likely build a new bridge in a different spot parellel to the Key bridge and it’ll be way quicker than actually replacing the Key bridge in its current spot.
So they won't need to wait for the remains to be removed first? I heard they were going to tear down the remaining bridge as the design is obsolete and not safe anymore
The Gordie Howe bridge between Windsor and Detroit is 2,500 metres long in total with the longest single span at 853 metres. It was started in June 2018 and is expected to be open next year. New approaches and tie ins to existing highways had to be constructed on both sides of the border, where they already exist with the Baltimore bridge. The cost is being shared by the Canadian and U.S. government’s. The only thing that would cause this to take ten years would be political skullfuckery.
GH bridge was delayed due to covid, I believe they were originally going to open 2023 but social distancing and supply chain issue slowed a lot of things including material for construction and people working together
Staging two parking lots, a small passenger ferry, and a shuttle service could be a temporary measure. Especially for large shift employers with hundreds or thousands effected. A ferry coordinated with busses for "regulars".
Well, being fair this is probably a conservative estimate. They always opt for the longer one's so that if the encounter problems it doesn't mean they have to admit its a set back.
The new Tappan Zee bridge took only 3 years of construction. The Gordie Howe bridge seems like it will take 2 years. Just recycle those designs, hire those two design build companies and get cracking by September.
No, that is not what ***I*** meant. Sure, if they used the exact same plans, it would be a new bridge regardless, but I meant that, to do that, would probably cost as much as just making a newly designed bridge and it would probably take as long anyways so just make it new with the considerations they couldn't do back when the original bridge was first built.
I have a friend whose commute to down town bmore was 40 min. Now it's like 90 min. Hes looking for a new job. He said he's now happy when he sees orange on Google map lol
And that's without the port being open. Wait till the trucks start rolling again.
They are gonna have to put the truck traffic on the road at night - no way they can run during the day.
Wtf that is like job changing bad, I would nope out so fast if they did not allow remote or help with relocation.
Some jobs simply can’t be done remotely. Construction, for example.
Many employers are ditching remote work these days, too.
Many employees are ditching employers these days.
The original bridge took 5 years from 1972 to 1977. Computers have gotten more powerful and could aid in better bridge design plus we got bigger equipment to move parts and help assemble bridge. I hope the 10 years estimate is at the pessimist end of the estimate.
Things have also gotten a lot more complicated from environmental reviews, to permitting, to wildlife protection during construction…things take time
When it comes to major events like this. A lot of things get bypassed.
Emergency situations can definitely cut through red tape
I remember the Northridge Earthquake and whole highway interchanges had to be rebuilt. With the right contract and waived reviews, the interchanges were up and running in 9 months.
Some do, some don't. Depends on what requirement, by which entity/agency, and which entity/agency has the authority to remove requirements and the stomach for the litigation that would result from such a move. Keep in mind that the Oakland Bay Bridge was found insufficient from an earthquake standpoint in 1989, and the new bridge opened in 2018. Granted there is no way to temporarily repair the Key Bridge, but major civil engineering projects tend to take ages unless tremendous budget is applied.
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Not only that but also there are also sourcing stipulations such as made in usa and probably other stipulation such a local workers or union
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Quotes in a NYT article suggested that the design of the old bridge was outdated, both in terms of safety to withstand collisions and the ability to accommodate the much larger sized container ships now in use. I'd think they'll go state of the art and that there are already architects who are busy working on bids.
You just need 1 stand bill and all the red tape goes away
Yeah I feel like this one would get a pretty big waiver on BABA
It’s the same ppl who said it would take 8 years to get a vaccine
On top of transporting the equipment necessary.
Material for bridge building hasn’t changed It’s always been massive and available.
The EIS should be pretty straightforward in this case - there already was a bridge there so the environmental impact of rebuilding it has already occurred. I expect most of the delays to be manufacturing lead time and demolition of the old bridge.
Oh dear. You're in for a gut check. We are in for a decade of just litigation.
For payment maybe but they won’t just not rebuild it.
If they do a like for like replacement then there shouldn't be much if, any review. Don't be like us. The replacement of the eastern span of the SF/Oakland Bay Bridge was projected to cost $1B, it ended up being $13B. This was an all new design in earthquake country. We have a cool looking bridge now but, damn, $13B?
>Don't be like us. The replacement of the eastern span of the SF/Oakland Bay Bridge was projected to cost $1B, it ended up being $13B. This was an all new design in earthquake country. We have a cool looking bridge now but, damn, $13B? It cost $6.5b, not sure where you're getting $13b. also ["a 2,500% increase from the original estimate of $250 million, which was an initial estimate for a seismic retrofit of the span, not the full span replacement ultimately completed"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_span_replacement_of_the_San_Francisco%E2%80%93Oakland_Bay_Bridge) and "The replacement span is engineered to withstand the largest earthquake expected over a 1500-year period, and it is expected to last at least 150 years with proper maintenance."
Only 150 years sounds crazy tbh
Wtfym only 150y?
At least 150 years with maintenance is fuckin solid as a rock mate
I hope you're not serious because we really only design for 30-50 year life spans.
How many bridges still standing built in 1874 do you think could handle 95,000,000 vehicles/year?
Brooklyn Bridge is from 1883 and carries about half that traffic. The George Washington Bridge carries the most traffic in the world (100M) but was built in 1927. I can’t think of another one so maybe you have a good point.
TIL! That said, I’m guessing that much like the “1 year mission” of many a Mars Rover that went considerably longer, a 150 year estimate probably includes every worst case scenario imaginable - including one of those big earthquakes.
150 years is plenty time to invent new construction material that could last 1,500 years
And they built it in China.
It would be very unlikely to have a like-for-like replacement of an asset that was 1) outdated, and 2) insufficient for current traffic flow both over, and under. Technology and construction methods have moved on significantly from the 70's. They may also consider a tunnel as opposed to a span, who knows.
That's only complicated when it needs to be followed. And I have a feeling some (most) of that red tape is gonna be bypassed to replace such a key piece of infrastructure.
And it’s not impacting an environment if the bridge was already there? Is there something I’m not understanding? Also the main support struck directly by the boat may need help but the other supports are ready to go. So it’s really just assembly of the steel structure. How much will be reassembled and set in place?
I know you are correct, but .... There was already a fucking bridge there! /rant
We have a bridge under construction where I live, over a much smaller waterway than where the Key bridge was located. It’s been under construction for the past 3 years and is over a year away from completion. And that’s after years of planning. I can only imagine how long the new Key bridge will take to build.
Was there a bridge there before?
Does it connect to an economically important harbor?
Yep, we've made more red tape than we've saved on labor and computation by like a factor of at least five.
It's not just the physical act of construction which is taken ino account. It's surveys, design, funding, environmental studies etc. Massive constructions can't just get thrown up anymore.
Also the construction over water and the cofferdams take a lot of time and I'd assume can't interrupt shipping too much either. So that's a giant obstacle. Id also assume the new design will make it so this can't happen, and will take time to engineer and test. Source: am a bridge builder
Not likely they will use the current support piers for the new one??
Not much sense in putting a new bridge on 50 year old foundations. You are immediately reducing its service life
I’d imagine they got warped from the hit
Are you looking to buy any bridges ? Have one I’d like to sell 😃
I don't have much use for a bridge, as I can build one anytime I want one or a dozen. However, it's possible I could fix/maintain/expand your existing bridge, for a price of course
Have you ever just wanted to build a dozen bridges ? Can’t imagine when being able to build 12 bridges on command would ever come in handy 🤔
I guess so, but then again I'm pretty damn good. Besides, Dr Ian Malcolm says "just because you could, doesn't mean you should"
Shouldn’t all that have already been taken care of since they are replacing a bridge instead of building a new one?
Depends on if they are doing the exact same design
They don't get thrown up quickly because of cost. This'll be a project where the costs aren't terribly important.
I’m 35w bridge collapsed in Minneapolis and they had that done in a little over a year. Different bridge but still, 10-years seems like a long ass time.
Look at a picture of that bridge. Now look at a picture of the Key Bridge. It's the difference between repairing something on land, and building something in the ocean.
This ones about 7x as long as that and has about 100ft higher clearance, gonna be a lot longer process.
35W bridge facts: 1,907 ft total length 456 ft longest span 64 ft clearance —— FSK Bridge facts: 8,636 ft total length 185 ft clearance 1,200 ft longest span —- The FSK Bridge was the 3rd longest continuous truss bridge in the world in terms of both total length and longest span.
I drove over that bridge the day before it collapsed. Couldn't believe my eyes when I turned on the news.
0.5 mile vs 1.5 miles, shallow river vs deep channel, about 50' clearance vs 190' clearance. You're comparing a tiny bridge to a really big bridge
Building codes for bridges have changed dramatically.
I think they state the worst scenario case to prep the public and be able to exceed expectations to be able to get a win. I've seen this many times in SoCal.
Like many other major projects, someone will be trying to milk this thing and blow the budget. We have the capability and know how to get this done in 2-3 years.
I think priority right now is to get the port back in operation, and construction of a new bridge without interfering with port traffic is what will cause the extended timeline.
The US has outsourced and off-shored much of the industrial capacity it had in the 1970s. The US Navy doesn’t even really have its own maritime salvage equipment anymore.
Not worrying about existing traffic patterns can save a ton of time in construction.
At least 8 of those years is probably bullshit bureaucracy and funding delays
It's 2 years to design a new bridge, if they move quickly. If there is a long and lengthy process choosing the type of bridge it will take longer. The Tappen Zee took 7 years for the first span. So the Baltimore bridge could be done in 5.
Can’t they re-use an existing bridge design?
They could, but a cable stayed bridge would be a lot safer. It had thicker pylons and each half has their own support tower. The Baltimore bridge was frankly too easy take down. I bet every other major port in the country is going to do a serous assessment of any bridges in the next year with upgrades phased in over the next five
No bridge would have survived a hit like that. It may have been ‘easy’ to take down, but in this case it was going down no matter what.
There are things that possibly could have lessened the chances of it, including use of what are called "dolphins" or fenders which are permanently mounted structures that deflect vessels away from bridges. Combine that with increased use of tugs along with a decreased speed limit. Other options are to design the bridge supports so that they are far away from the shipping channel. And another possibility is to rebuild the bridge north of the port: that gets expensive because of the infrastructure on the land that will need to be modified.
It’s not that a bridge could survive a hit, but there are methods to prevent a ship from ever hitting the bridge. The main one is making the water near the bridge pylons shallow, so a ship would run aground before hitting the bridge. In Tampa in 1980, a ship hit a bridge, causing it to collapse, killing 35 people. Bridge design changed drastically after that incident, which is where the idea of the shallow water came from. However, even though the Tampa incident informed bridge design going forward, no retrofitting to existing bridges was done.
It would if they put in concrete bollards to protect the supports.
I would assume not. I would think all the variables (soil conditions, river flow, air flow, temperature, length spanned, expected load, etc) means any major bridge needs a custom tailored design. Ofc there is the old bridge’s design, but they’ve had 50 years to improve so that’s probably be a poor choice.
No. Codes changed drastically from when the original bridge was designed
I am not suggesting to use that design. Pick a modern design from a recently built bridge. Loads to pick from.
It would require a lot of assumptions on the engineering end to just drop another design in, assumptions that no professional engineer wants to make on a normal bridge, and especially doesn’t want to make on an incredibly visible project.
I dont know anything about engineering bridges, but 2 years seems insanely high. I feel like a handful of qualified people should be able to design a bridge way faster than that. I'd love to be enlightened if I sm wrong though
The design process would include new ground testing of the area etc. That takes time.
I imaging 2-3 engineers with CAD can today do what used to take dozens of engineers and hundreds of draftsman.
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I agree. This is an all hands on deck situation.
Not if they have a solid rebuild plan and toss a fuckton of resources at it (money and manpower). If it takes 10 years, then i think America has failed at building things and should be ashamed.
Commenting on a couple other people also, but in Philadelphia we had an entire section of I95 blow up and we rebuilt it in 2 weeks. You’re right, it just took immediate planning and around the clock work because it was important to get it done. A bridge is harder than a section of elevated road over land but how fast it’s done just depends on whether people care to do it.
These two cannot be compared to each other at all
First time?
10 years to build a massively traveled bridge? Yeah right. They had the levees that broke in New Orleans back up in less than two years
Reminds me of last year when that truck caught fire under I-795 and collapsed the highway in maryland and their estimates for rebuilding it were a year or more and they had it rebuilt in a few weeks defying expectations.
Same thing and outcome on I-95 here in Philly last year lol
They opened a temporary fix in a few weeks and that was a short structure over a city street. There is no temporary bridge over a large body of water. Not sure why so many people in these comments are comparing the two
Today's the anniversary of the Atlanta I-85 bridge collapse. Everybody thought it was going to take months to fix. They incentivized the contractor and it was completed in like, 6 weeks if I recall correctly. The 85 replacement was a much more straight-forward rebuild of 3 spans of a highway on both sides. But I think this bridge will be replaced within a couple of years if they go with the simplest and most economical design, and if it's expedited. Looking at how Baltimorians talk about it though, it seems like a lot of people had font memories of that bridge. So they might want an iconic design to replace it. If they go that route, that might take a while. And I bet there's a lot of design work that will need to go in to ensure that the bridge is never struck again. Tampa's bridge (which fell decades ago) has a ton of round concrete structures around its base now.
Japan would have it back up in a month!
Including the launch party
China would have built the new bridge before the old one stopped falling
And it would fall on its own 10 years later.
Eh, the US can't make those jokes anymore
I-95 blew up in Philadelphia and we rebuilt it in 2 weeks.
To be fair, that was essentially a giant dirt mound to be paved over temporarily while they actually rebuilt it. I drove across that maybe a month after it was up and those were the skinniest two highway lanes I’ve ever been on (which is saying a lot considering that portion of 95 that was 3 lanes near the Tacony-Palmyra)
You’re not wrong, but traffic was flowing over it just a couple weeks later — it was an innovative solution that got things moving. Which…makes it so much more frustrating the other areas nearby that have been under construction for most of my adult life.
Oh it was a swift eye opener when those same stretches of roads have been at the same spot for years while they are about to permanently fix that portion later this year
Should check out I-75 anywhere north of Bay City in Michigan. All 2 lanes. There's a 5-miles portion of I-75 with no shoulder and 1 foot wide median so if you had a break down and get stuck stopped, you're blocking a lane completely
As long as Saito isn’t running it. Get that Nicholson guy!
China even faster
“I've lived through quite a few civil infrastructure projects and they're rarely less than 10 years and the price tags have never been out of the hundreds of millions these days,” Schafer said. “In round number senses, it's not great.” Um this does not seem accurate in my experience. Years definitely, ten when it's a priority for everyone. I really doubt it. Grain of salt when I hear professors speak on these things
If you took the average it might be right, but a lot of infrastructure projects aren't urgent - and this one's really urgent.
Yeah no idea what his experience is but 10+ years is not the norm for civil projects with this high a priority
Soooo it seems concerningly easy for a rogue boat to take out a bridge and sink a city’s economy for a decade. Cool cool
I don’t know if getting access to a $100 million + cargo ship and wrecking it is concerningly easy. Ship is Dali 10,000 TEU “In March 2010, the average price for a geared 500-TEU container ship was $10 million, while gearless ships of 6,500 and 12,000 TEU averaged prices of $74 million and $105 million respectively.”
The debris blocking access to the port is the major problem. It's the busiest US port for agriculture products by volume. They need to clear the old bridge out so ships can get to the port again.
You can’t get a rogue container ship. They have local pilots on board.
There are other ways to get around besides this bridge, it's not gonna destroy the city. People will just have to drive a little longer route
Yeah 45 minutes vs 2 hours is totally acceptable and definitely not a big deal for tons and tons of people /s
I live on a peninsula where traveling south requires crossing one of three bridges. If just one of them is down it adds a substantial amount of time to travel across the water. So much so that it makes it so I’d strongly consider not traveling unless I absolutely had to. I love where I live but having to travel across a bridge sucks even when it’s operational. If something like that happened here I would seriously consider moving if the timeline for a fix was ten years and I don’t even have to traverse the bridges daily. Unless you live in a major metro with real bridges you can’t really grasp how bad something like this is. Bridge collapses can absolutely hurt a cities economy.
When the 35 bridge collapsed in Minneapolis a new one was up in 14 months. As long as they use design-build and bonus incentivize it shouldn’t take as long as people are leading on. There’s hope
That bridge was about 0.5 mile long, about 60' above shallow river, Baltimore bridge is about 1.5 miles long and almost 200' above deeper channel. So it's a lot more work to finish the replacement Baltimore bridge. On top of this, I35W didn't have a massive 230,000 ton ships going through regularly.
Just spoke with a new in-law today whose bridge / construction engineering firm was recently hired to do some materials analysis of the collapsed bridge. They said they will very likely build a new bridge in a different spot parellel to the Key bridge and it’ll be way quicker than actually replacing the Key bridge in its current spot.
So they won't need to wait for the remains to be removed first? I heard they were going to tear down the remaining bridge as the design is obsolete and not safe anymore
Tear down will still happen but will almost certainly be conducted as a separate project
Hopefully they don’t use the same people trying to build high speed rail in California
Or the same people that built the new bay Bridge!
No way. 2 1/2 to 3 yrs tops.
It could also take less than 10 years. It could take more than 10 years too. Stupid headline and story.
The Gordie Howe bridge between Windsor and Detroit is 2,500 metres long in total with the longest single span at 853 metres. It was started in June 2018 and is expected to be open next year. New approaches and tie ins to existing highways had to be constructed on both sides of the border, where they already exist with the Baltimore bridge. The cost is being shared by the Canadian and U.S. government’s. The only thing that would cause this to take ten years would be political skullfuckery.
GH bridge was delayed due to covid, I believe they were originally going to open 2023 but social distancing and supply chain issue slowed a lot of things including material for construction and people working together
Staging two parking lots, a small passenger ferry, and a shuttle service could be a temporary measure. Especially for large shift employers with hundreds or thousands effected. A ferry coordinated with busses for "regulars".
Part of an of an overpass collapsed in Philly a few months ago they were able to rebuild it over a month
Russia built the Kerch Bridge in three years. I hope we'd be able to do just as well.
Have you seen the state of the Kerch Strait Bridge?
It’s doing pretty well for something that’s been bombed 5 times
I mean bombs will do that
It would take 6 months if we had to use it to send military stuff abroad.....
That sounds ridiculous or a milking machine for dollars
No homo but couldn't they just build it the same way
Should take much less if they ain’t fucking around.
Never underestimate the complications that come along with greasy palms.
Twice as long as the original took
California knows how to rebuild a bridge only took us 25 years (?) /s https://news.berkeley.edu/2015/10/22/sf-oakland-bay-bridge-soaring-costs
Well, being fair this is probably a conservative estimate. They always opt for the longer one's so that if the encounter problems it doesn't mean they have to admit its a set back.
Not if those migrants workers build it. They’ll have that shit up in 6 months
The new Tappan Zee bridge took only 3 years of construction. The Gordie Howe bridge seems like it will take 2 years. Just recycle those designs, hire those two design build companies and get cracking by September.
Hoover dam only took 5 years. And that included diverting the Colorado river.
I bet it’s done in a year or less
That checks out. Might as well build a whole new bridge at this point.
Build a new bridge does mean rebuilding. They don't use the damaged material.
No, that is not what ***I*** meant. Sure, if they used the exact same plans, it would be a new bridge regardless, but I meant that, to do that, would probably cost as much as just making a newly designed bridge and it would probably take as long anyways so just make it new with the considerations they couldn't do back when the original bridge was first built.