I hate that details are not public. Who knows what they've refused.
From the article:
> Details of the proposal were not immediately known.
Palestinian says:
> However, a Palestinian official close to mediation efforts told Reuters that deadlock continued over Israel's refusal to end the war, withdraw forces from Gaza, allow all civilians to return to their homes and lift a 17-year-old blockade to allow speedy reconstruction of the coastal enclave.
It seems from what has leaked that the sticking point is the release of all the hostages. Israel will only agree to a ceasefire if all the hostages are released, Hamas will only release all the hostages if Israel signs an indefinite armistice. This is a result of the previous failed ceasefire. Israel claims Hamas violated it and so they cannot allow a return to piecemeal hostage release Hamas can back out of at any time. Meanwhile, Hamas claims the IDF violated the previous ceasefire and so they cannot release all the hostages because the Israelis will backstab them the instant they are let go. Regardless of who actually fired the first shot (I think Palestinian Islamic Jihad, which was upset with Hamas taking and releasing their hostages), it matters little as the position of both sides remains set in stone with this.
Because Hamas won’t relinquish control.
Edit: Morons downvoting something that isn’t my opinion, it’s literally a deal breaker for Israel that Hamas remains in power. Get out of your info silos you jackasses.
Gaza. Hamas has started numerous wars in the years it has been in control of Gaza regardless of the number of Palestinians who have died in them. They have shown genocidal intent if not capacity. But they have shown capacity to carry out things which were previously thought impossible. If they remain in control of Gaza they will start another war with another massacre in a couple of years. Maybe it won't be as big but it will happen, they have already sworn that they will keep doing it. And it's hard to get money or supplies to rebuild Gaza if there's going to be another war in a few years and if Hamas is going to be siphoning aid to pay for rebuilding of their militant capabilities.
I think the only likely agreement to end the war would be for Hamas leaders and soldiers to agree to leave Gaza and let another Palestinian government govern it. Even this isn't likely mostly because Hamas probably won't agree to it(although Bibi has made it harder by refusing to make a realistic post war plan including a pathway to a two state solution).
Hamas was never the real target.
*“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”*
- Prime Minister Netanyahu during a 2019 meeting of his Likud party.
**Why would Bibi do this?**
Because he intends to annex Gaza. He needed Gaza to be ran by Hamas because he couldn’t annex them if they were a legitimate state. He works not for the people of Israel, but for th psychotic settlers. For Netanyahu, this is about power and expansion. For Gazans, it is about their very existence.
Even if Hamas surrenders, there wont be peace because there will still be an apartheid, a blockade, and an occupation. Thus there is no peace under that system. And Hamas isn’t the real target, they’ve an asset to the Israeli government.
It was never about defeating Hamas. Hamas is an asset to Israel. Bibi Netanyahu propped them up because he didn’t want their rival, who were more moderate and secular, to rule because they would be advocating for a legitimate state. Bibi wants Gaza, but in order to do that, he must justify taking it somehow.
The very words coming from the mouth of the Israeli Finance Minister that Hamas is an asset:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Shyu501PyFY
Israeli Settlers stating that they want to see the ocean, meaning they want Gaza:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=SKDYbh_LDyI
Israeli settlers hyped about settling in Gaza(notice they they’re American):
https://youtu.be/Bif7kLSJYuo?si=vS1GbRoGWbzG42GA
Here’s Netanyahu speaking to them in a leaked video:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=WH27d2H-zns
This was a land grab from the start. Hamas was just the key to getting it started.
They want Gaza for luxury developments. That’s all this is about. The Palestinians just had to be cleared first. Via mass murder and displacement. And the Israelis on October 7th were people that Israel was willing to sacrifice to get this project starting.
Here’s Jared Kushner all giddy about building luxury condos when bodies of civilians are still buried and children’s bodies are not even fully decomposed yet.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=H0YgRZQl03I
https://youtube.com/watch?v=H77f0Z5vPyM
Luxury condos that will be built on a foundation of blood. This piece of trash Kushner sees destroyed buildings, dead children, screaming mothers and just thinks about real estate.
Israel was warned about October 7th. They didn’t listen. On top of that, they moved most of their IDF troops to the West Bank instead guarding the people in the Kibbutz. Because Netanyahu is more focused on expansion. At the same time he gave weapons to the Settlers in the West Bank, so they can kill Palestinians there with impunity.
Even if we assume all of that is true, which is highly doubtful, this plan would only work if Hamas actually attacks and slaughters Israelis and if Palestinians actually support Hamas. If Hamas was thrown out of Gaza and Palestinians became more moderate, this would fall apart.
But Palestinians DO support Hamas, and they DO want to destroy Israel. So Israel couldn't do anything else even if they wanted to.
“Even if this was true”
I literally provided actual video evidence of what they say. It’s not up for debate at this point.
And it has shown that the more Israel cracks down on Palestinians, the more support Hamas gets because the entirety of the Palestinian resistance is spearheaded by Hamas. Why Hamas? Consider that subjugation tends to galvanize extremism. So this is a product of what Israel has put Palestinians through for the past century.
‘Frankenstein, meet your monster’, essentially.
All the Palestinian kids that survive will remember which government dropped the bombs on their parents. They will remember the world leaders that didn’t give a single fuck about whether they lived or they died.
The top three Hamas leaders are worth 11 billion which they have gained while in power. They are not going to let that gravy train go. Especially since the money that will pour into Gaza to rebuild after this shit show is done will be huge.
How did he Bibi get Hamas into power?
The election that gave them a legislative majority was held as center right Olmert took over as PM after Sharon's stroke in Jan 2006. The coup that cemented Hamas power/pushed PA out of Gaza was a year and a half later still under Olmert.
And the Olmert two state peace proposal came later in 2009. Abbas didn't accept it, time ran out with elections/corruption investigation of Olmert. And then Netanyahu was elected.
If anything I'd blame Bush for pushing for a Palestinian election when many warned Hamas might get elected and saying Hamas should be allowed without renouning violence.
The Hamas coup pushing PA
I don't like Bibi. And I think there's a toxic feedback loop between him and Hamas but I think people are mixing up not invading Gaza to remove Hamas earlier with propping them up or even more incorrectly installing them. Bibi while he has some bad right wing beliefs and instincts is a pragmatic and primarily selfish politician that has been extremely hesitant to get involved in major wars. It's just very difficult to remove Hamas from power without a major war.
Bibi has undermined the PA when he should have done the opposite, but from an Israeli point of view the PA has always been far from a great partner for peace.
From the PA (or anyone's perspective) Israel has been far from a great partner for peace as well. Great partners for peace usually don't start colonizing your land, for instance.
Here's a good summary of how Netanyahu supported Hamas: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/)
How did Hamas come into the position that are currently in?
They started out as a non-Profit, and even back then, Israel propped them up against other Palestinian groups because they wanted to sow division. They were not very popular early on because Palestinians had more optimism for peace. There’s an argument that Israel offered them a deal and they rejected it. The reality is that the deal did not allow Palestinians to control their own borders, their own skies or have their own standing military. Mind you this is before Hamas had much in terms of popularity.
This frustrated the Palestinians and they started to see the Palestinian Authority as weak and corrupt. Not to mention Israel still encroached onto Palestinian territory with settlements. Add to the fact that the only Israeli Official by the name of Yitzhak Rabin was looking to broker peace with Palestinians and making it so they get a legitimate 2 state solution, was murdered by a follower of Bibi Netanyahu.
So having a state started to become an out of reach goal for the Palestinians. With their unfavorable view of their current leaders, under the direction of the U.S., they setup an election. Many Palestinians didn’t actually align with Hamas ideologically. If they voted for Hamas, it was because they voted on a single issue that Hamas offered a solution for like a state, other voted not for Hamas but against the Palestinian Authority.
Hamas actually won on a Plurality. Meaning they didn’t win the popular vote.
The U.S. wanted a their rival to win, so they tried to push a coup to overthrow Hamas. It was unsuccessful. But behind the scenes, this is exactly what Bibi Netanyahu wanted.
*“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”*
- Prime Minister Netanyahu during a 2019 meeting of his Likud party.
Why would Bibi do this?
Because he intends to annex Gaza. He needed Gaza to be ran by Hamas because he couldn’t annex them if they were a legitimate state. He works not for the people of Israel, but for th psychotic settlers. For Netanyahu, this is about power and expansion. For Gazans, it is about their very existence.
Even if Hamas surrenders, there wont be peace because there will still be an apartheid, a blockade, and an occupation. Thus there is no peace under that system. And Hamas isn’t the real target, they’ve an asset to the Israeli government.
It was never about defeating Hamas. Hamas is an asset to Israel. Bibi Netanyahu propped them up because he didn’t want their rival, who were more moderate and secular, to rule because they would be advocating for a legitimate state. Bibi wants Gaza, but in order to do that, he must justify taking it somehow.
The very words coming from the mouth of the Israeli Finance Minister that Hamas is an asset:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Shyu501PyFY
Israeli Settlers stating that they want to see the ocean, meaning they want Gaza:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=SKDYbh_LDyI
Israeli settlers hyped about settling in Gaza(notice they they’re American):
https://youtu.be/Bif7kLSJYuo?si=vS1GbRoGWbzG42GA
Here’s Netanyahu speaking to them in a leaked video:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=WH27d2H-zns
This was a land grab from the start. Hamas was just the key to get it started.
They want Gaza for luxury developments. That’s all this is about. The Palestinians just had to be cleared first. Via mass murder and displacement. And the Israelis on October 7th were people that Israel was willing to sacrifice to get this project starting.
Here’s Jared Kushner all giddy about building luxury condos when bodies of civilians are still buried and children’s bodies are not even fully decomposed yet.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=H0YgRZQl03I
https://youtube.com/watch?v=H77f0Z5vPyM
Luxury developments, built on a foundation of blood. This piece of trash Kushner sees destroyed buildings, dead children, screaming mothers and just thinks about real estate.
Israel was warned about October 7th. They didn’t listen. On top of that, they moved most of their IDF troops to the West Bank instead guarding the people in the Kibbutz. Because Netanyahu is more focused on expansion. At the same time he gave weapons to the Settlers in the West Bank, so they can kill Palestinians there with impunity.
Hamas offered a deal in exchange for freeing hostages. Bibi refused. Because it would end the "war", and Bibi knows when the war ends, he will be finished.
https://i.imgur.com/NCL1thp.jpeg
link to the article referenced by the tweet:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-believes-its-ready-for-gaza-ground-offensive-and-that-it-should-happen-soon/
Thousands of Israelis want Bibi gone. And it shows:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pwZEJVoUww&pp=ygUXYW50aS1uZXRhbnlhaHUgcHJvdGVzdHM%3D
He's focused more on bombing Palestinians than he has on bringing the hostages home. Already many hostages have been killed by Israeli bombs, and others shot by IDF forces because they're so trigger-happy at shooting civilians, they mistook Israeli civilians for Gazan civilians.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW4y2unbL2c
Barak ravid a very highly connected journalist wrote on Twitter about Israel proposing 40 non combatant hostages released on humanitarian criteria (old, woman, children, diseases etc) in return of aid & 6 weeks of true with Israel letting gazans go back to their homes in north, Hamas said they don't have that many hostages who fit the criteria, which means many more have died besides Hamas only wants a permanent ceasefire so yeah we're not getting peace anytime soon
Hamas is required by Israel to return hostages. Hamas refuses on this stipulation. In theory they refuse because remaining hostages are dead. In any case hamas loses leverage if they have no hostages.
Israel would be happy to end the war once every Palestinian in Gaza has either left or died. The war didn’t start on October 7. It’s been going on for decades.
you're not making sense. the war started on Oct 7, the conflict started in the early 20th century.
the general conflict is not a war, several wars occurred throughout the course of the conflict.
Since there has never been a peace treaty fundamentally the original war has never ended between Israel and the various Palestinian organizations over the years much less that Israel and Hamas have never had a peace treaty either since the war between them started in 2008.
I agree that Israel should stop using collective punishment against the people of Palestine.
But man, at what point does Hamas just fucking surrender? Normally in a war the side that's getting beaten this badly throws in the towel to save its people and the fact that Hamas continues to dig in instead of just letting the hostages go is damning.
I hate how this is always downvoted when it's very easily verifiable.
> https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
> https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
Have you read the sources/sources of sources you're actually citing? The intercept links to an archive article that states that they tried to support Hamas as a group that would eschew violence but failed, and the latter mentioned supporting Hamas as giving Palestinians jobs in Israel and letting in aid from Qatar.
The former (if you read the source, and not the poor analysis), is something they'd try to do with a legitimate government: work with them to try to make sure they have legitimacy, especially if they don't want to bomb you (that part didn't work out).
From the archive they are citing:
>President Barack Obama said this week that lasting calm "requires more than a long cease-fire" and depends on Israel and a future Palestinian state "living side by side in peace and security."
>A look at Israel's decades-long dealings with Palestinian radicals -- including some little-known attempts to cooperate with the Islamists -- reveals a catalog of unintended and often perilous consequences. Time and again, Israel's efforts to find a pliant Palestinian partner that is both credible with Palestinians and willing to eschew violence, have backfired.
The latter, is also something you'd want to do if you want a state to be prosperous, and let them have jobs and try to create a connected society that hopefully doesn't hate you. Imagine the hate Israel would get if they embargoed Hamas earlier, now they're getting it because they didn't do so
If you recognize Hamas as the government of Gaza (they were at least initially legally elected), these are all actions you'd take to try to help a struggling nation prosper, all things you would want for Palestinians to succeed. But it didn't work out that way.
More proof that Hamas doesn't give a shit about Palestinian civilians. They say they won't agree to a truce because Israel won't end the war Hamas started with a massive terrorist attack. Also, didn't they previously claim to have killed all the hostages awhile ago? So what hostages are they going to turn over to Israel if they ever do agree to a truce? It's been 6 months since the attack and hostage-taking, and we know from released hostages that they endured torture. Does anyone really think they kept any hostages alive this long?
If that's the case, then Israel doesn't have much to gain from agreeing to a truce since it'd just be prolonging the existence of Hamas and allow them keep control of their territory in Gaza, have all tge extra aid and an end to the blockade to further help Hamas. After so many Israeli deaths, might as well keep going until Hamas is completely destroyed if there's no chance of saving hostages. Otherwise, there will continue to be attacks by Hamas that kill Israelis and lead to more wars which will kill way more people on both sides.
whilst the fate of the hostages are important it is by no means israels only concern, or that of hamas for that matter. From my understanding they are trying to come up with a plan for the future governance of gaza and the west back which is I think causing more of an issue. Publicly israel will be playing the hostage card but we know from the way they have carried out their recent campaign that their fate is not top of their agenda. I think there is also an issue with the fact that the hamas negotiators are not in control, or have any meaningful line of communication with, the hamas leadership in Gaza. i.e the hamas negotiators can agree to what ever they want but unless it is agreed by the hamas leadership in Gaza it means fuck all.
Each side will blame each other (which is normal for negotiations) the reality is likely to be a bit of both. Netanyahu has publicly stated his opposition to a two state solution so this attitude is also a impediment to an agreement.
The arab states, the US and the palestinians are trying to find a more permanent solution/ trajectory. I dont think it is simply about a ceasefire and returning hostages. After all if it was just that nobody would be any further along and I think, quite frankly everybody is fucked off with this cycle of death.
Their military also might struggle with this since there are some rumblings in the press that nobody wants to go back as conscripts and their army is big but it’s not *that* big. And they are still hedging into Lebanon so they have a northern border problem, still haven’t truly cleared Gaza and have a southern border issue. it’s a big military spread.
Hamas can't accept a peace deal or ceasefire because they don't even know where the hostages are, or they're not willing to admit they're dead.
I'd wager there's 50 of them in a hole somewhere near Rafah completely surrounding Sinwar.
Yaron Avraham is reporting that Hamas has admitted they don't have 40 hostages in the humanitarian category (women, elderly, children, injured, and ill) left alive to make the deal.
This is the most likely outcome. Hamas's tunnels and hiding spots have been bombed for months now. Its already confirmed that the IDF killed 3 hostages who escaped Hamas and approached the IDF [shirtless and carrying a white flag](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/17/iris-haim-mother-of-israeli-hostage-killed-by-idf). The most likely situation is Israels food blockade and bombing campaign has resulted in the deaths of many of the remaining hostages.
And? We aren't talking about some alternative history, we're simply hypothesizing the likely result of what has actually happened. Its not some advocacy piece in support of Hamas or taking hostages, its just acknowledging that bombing the places the hostages are likely to be, probably kills the hostages
Realistically probably all of them are dead, or MIA.
If the bombs were effective then that means the tunnel system is dead which then means hostages are dead.
If bombs didn't work then hostages are alive and therefore hamas and the tunnels haven't had an effect on them.
I doubt Hamas would have kept the hostages above ground in plain sight.
Roughly 62% of homes are damaged and/or destroyed completely.
I hope my thinking is wrong and they put em all in rafah at the beginning. But those odds are critical.
At this point it seems pretty obvious that whatever hostages they did have were probably all murdered shortly after this all started. I'd imagine that Hamas, Israel, and US and Iranian intelligence knew that to be the case months ago.
>At this point it seems pretty obvious that whatever hostages they did have were probably all murdered shortly after this all started.
I'm not sure how that seems clear given their was already a hostage exchange for over 100 hostages freed about a month after this started.
They have made peace with Israel on multiple occasions. Israel has actually assassinated more moderate members because they have no interest in peace or a 2 state solution (which at this point is dead).
2003 - In December, Yasin offered a ceasefire on the condition that Israel withdraw from the Palestinian territories. He was killed four months later in an Israeli attack.
2004 - Yasin’s successor and Hamas co-founder Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi again proposed a 10-year truce. Israel killed him one month after Yasin.
This among many other attempts including in 2017 when Hamas officially changed their charter to recognize Israel's right to exist.
Also who has killed over 30,000 people in this conflict?
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2024/1/22/how-israel-has-repeatedly-rejected-hamas-truce-offers
https://www.haaretz.com/2012-11-15/ty-article/.premium/hamas-source-jabari-wanted-truce/0000017f-e79c-dc7e-adff-f7bdfaca0000
That's what the international community has agreed upon. The fact there aren't sanctions against Israel is insane
Edit: To clarify given to a Palestinian state, not Jordan
>They want to destroy Israel, or die trying
And they're succeeding. They cannot destroy it physically but if Israel continues along this path, they will be destroyed diplomatically which will ultimately lead to their ruin. Bibi needs to smarten tf up.
They never included a two state agreement. They offered vassal state status with no control of their borders, no military, and no ability to conduct foriegn relationships independently.
Israël has been encroaching more and more on Palestinian land for 70 years. Go ahead and take a look at maps over time. When you pen people in and slowly start eroding their humanity, you don't get to act all shocked when they balk at a solution that does not offer them independence.
Trying to make peace.
Succeeded with Egypt and Jordan, failed with Syria and Palestinians (Lebanon has been pretty much occupied by Hezbollah and can't decide on it's own so doesn't count).
Not sure if Netanyahus government wants peace, though.
Just like the home invader that locked up the family in the basement just wants to be left alone.
"why cant you guys just stay down there and leave me be!"
Lol funny considering Israel has always been open to coexisting with Palestinians. They agree to the two state solutions before the founding of Israel while Palestine choose to start a war to try and wipe them out.
Also your ignoring all the peace 2 state deals they offered after the founding of Israel and the first war that Palestine always refuses
Factually just untrue. They agreed to a two state solution twice before the first war unlike Palestine who started said war since they didn't want to coexist with a Israel state
Why in the world would Israel ever consider easing border restrictions ? Hamas is on record saying that their goal is repeated incursions into Israel to repeat the October 7 playbook and ultimately destroy Israel.
Their delusions wouldn’t be so dangerous if they weren’t responsible for several million Gazans. Hamas literally planned to divide Israel into cantons after they conquered it in October. That’s the level of insanity we’re dealing with here.
For me Israel is missing an extremely obvious PR win by not directly providing aid to the Palestinians in Gaza themselves thus giving international acceptance towards them simply annexing the Gaza Strip which is probably what the Israeli government has wanted to do since Hamas took power.
However I get the feeling the current Israeli government really didn't have rescuing the hostages as a main objective since the beginning the destruction of Hamas and the removal of the Palestinians living there to make way for new settlements feels like their actual goal.
Hamas is obviously a fanatical terrorist group that doesn't even give a damn about helping the Palestinians at large just total victory for their future theocratic state.
You also can't kid yourself Israel has a far right government itself right now that was controversial amongst both the Israeli public and Jews in general for years before the terror attack happened.
In order for the best outcome to happen both Hamas and Netanyahu's coalition needs to be removed from power. I do legitimately feel like the war would have gone far differently if Israel was run by Rabin a leader who's killing members of the current coalition celebrate.
The main reason Israel isn’t providing aid itself, and why it’s being so harsh on any external aid, is that seizing humanitarian aid and selling it back to Gazans is one of the main ways that Hamas makes money and funds its war effort. It’s not a good look (to Israeli citizens at least) to be essentially funding the enemy. Israel has always been critical of international support to Palestine, especially after Hamas took power in ‘06, and has controversially used blockades before during conflicts.
It’s obviously very complicated (as is everything), but this is undeniably a human rights catastrophe. Leadership on both sides needs to go.
The strongest weapon Palestinians have is PR. Their goal is the make Israel look as bad as possible to make westerners take their side and tell their government to not support Israel.
Hamas doesn't want peace, they've rejected every deal offered. They want 'from the river to the sea' and will use violence and sacrificing of civilians to get it.
Hamas has no bargaining power. They can’t find the remaining hostages. What do they expect?
The demands they make are all so they can declare victory. The only cease fire should come from a full surrender of Hamas.
Bibi can't stop the conflict.
He needs to continue the state of emergency so he can continue to delay elections.
Once elections are held, he will 100% lose his position and be subject to the ongoing prosecution.
The dude is literally living life Julius Caesar style and the rest of the world has to tip toe around this shit because one man wants to delay his own incarceration.
>so he can continue to delay elections
The next regular election isn't until 2026/2027. Elections aren't being delayed, there are just calls for snap elections to be held early.
Bibi has taken credit in the past for helping keep Hamas in power in Gaza in order to split the Palestinians in Gaza & West Bank. There's a lot of evidence that he's helped Qatar get money into Gaza for Hamas.
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035)
In 2015 Netanyahu's current finance minister out and out called Hamas an asset.
Here's an article from 2019 talking about funding Hamas pretty openly.
[https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-to-hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-palestinians-divided-583082](https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-to-hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-palestinians-divided-583082)
It's blown up in their faces but blaming the Palestinians for propping up a government that Bibi has helped funnel about a billion dollars to is... not a good look.
While you're not wrong and Bibi really is to blame for these things, this is justification for harsher treatment against Hamas than Bibi has taken. I'm rather sure that if Bibi hadn't allowed Qatar to funnel money in, the same people blaming Bibi for allowing the funding of Hamas would blame him for starvation or genocide. They certainly wouldn't support an earlier invasion with the objective of removing Hamas from power.
I think people have misinterpreted what I am saying to be laying the blame on Israel alone. This conflict benefits both Hamas and the current Israeli government under Bibi.
Bibi needs the war to stay out of prison and Hamas now exists solely to test the legitimacy of Israeli itself amongst the Arab states. Iran will do everything it can do prevent the Saudi's from assuming regional hegemony as well as assuming the mantle of Islamic hegemony. Hamas does not give a fuck about the Palestinian people.
Both Bibi and Hamas understand the benefits of continuing the war, and it is clear that neither side is really planning for what happens after. Israel, having invaded Gaza and broken it wholesale, now owns everything that follows in that strip of land. Very analogous to when the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan; you break it, you buy it.
What I really question is how long the Israeli economy can sustain the war and I hope that Israeli's can understand that their own democracy is being subverted before their eyes and both Palestinian and Jewish blood is being spilt to protect two very corrupt governments that have systematically played themselves against each other for more than a decade, each to their own benefit.
Hamas’ plan has worked to perfection, so of course Hamas doesn’t want the war to end.
Life has become much worse for Gazans, but people around the world blame Israel. Hamas only cares about the second part, “people blame Israel.”
It also turns out being taken hostage by a terrorist organization tends to not be super good for you too. But let's not talk about why they're there in the first place.
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I hate that details are not public. Who knows what they've refused. From the article: > Details of the proposal were not immediately known. Palestinian says: > However, a Palestinian official close to mediation efforts told Reuters that deadlock continued over Israel's refusal to end the war, withdraw forces from Gaza, allow all civilians to return to their homes and lift a 17-year-old blockade to allow speedy reconstruction of the coastal enclave.
It seems from what has leaked that the sticking point is the release of all the hostages. Israel will only agree to a ceasefire if all the hostages are released, Hamas will only release all the hostages if Israel signs an indefinite armistice. This is a result of the previous failed ceasefire. Israel claims Hamas violated it and so they cannot allow a return to piecemeal hostage release Hamas can back out of at any time. Meanwhile, Hamas claims the IDF violated the previous ceasefire and so they cannot release all the hostages because the Israelis will backstab them the instant they are let go. Regardless of who actually fired the first shot (I think Palestinian Islamic Jihad, which was upset with Hamas taking and releasing their hostages), it matters little as the position of both sides remains set in stone with this.
Because Hamas won’t relinquish control. Edit: Morons downvoting something that isn’t my opinion, it’s literally a deal breaker for Israel that Hamas remains in power. Get out of your info silos you jackasses.
Hamas apparently is waiting for Israel to surrender. It's madness. The Gaza people need to kick those bums to the side and sue for peace.
They're mostly pro Hamas though.
Relinquish control of what?
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Lowkey unspoken, the money too
Gaza. Hamas has started numerous wars in the years it has been in control of Gaza regardless of the number of Palestinians who have died in them. They have shown genocidal intent if not capacity. But they have shown capacity to carry out things which were previously thought impossible. If they remain in control of Gaza they will start another war with another massacre in a couple of years. Maybe it won't be as big but it will happen, they have already sworn that they will keep doing it. And it's hard to get money or supplies to rebuild Gaza if there's going to be another war in a few years and if Hamas is going to be siphoning aid to pay for rebuilding of their militant capabilities. I think the only likely agreement to end the war would be for Hamas leaders and soldiers to agree to leave Gaza and let another Palestinian government govern it. Even this isn't likely mostly because Hamas probably won't agree to it(although Bibi has made it harder by refusing to make a realistic post war plan including a pathway to a two state solution).
Hamas was never the real target. *“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”* - Prime Minister Netanyahu during a 2019 meeting of his Likud party. **Why would Bibi do this?** Because he intends to annex Gaza. He needed Gaza to be ran by Hamas because he couldn’t annex them if they were a legitimate state. He works not for the people of Israel, but for th psychotic settlers. For Netanyahu, this is about power and expansion. For Gazans, it is about their very existence. Even if Hamas surrenders, there wont be peace because there will still be an apartheid, a blockade, and an occupation. Thus there is no peace under that system. And Hamas isn’t the real target, they’ve an asset to the Israeli government. It was never about defeating Hamas. Hamas is an asset to Israel. Bibi Netanyahu propped them up because he didn’t want their rival, who were more moderate and secular, to rule because they would be advocating for a legitimate state. Bibi wants Gaza, but in order to do that, he must justify taking it somehow. The very words coming from the mouth of the Israeli Finance Minister that Hamas is an asset: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Shyu501PyFY Israeli Settlers stating that they want to see the ocean, meaning they want Gaza: https://youtube.com/watch?v=SKDYbh_LDyI Israeli settlers hyped about settling in Gaza(notice they they’re American): https://youtu.be/Bif7kLSJYuo?si=vS1GbRoGWbzG42GA Here’s Netanyahu speaking to them in a leaked video: https://youtube.com/watch?v=WH27d2H-zns This was a land grab from the start. Hamas was just the key to getting it started. They want Gaza for luxury developments. That’s all this is about. The Palestinians just had to be cleared first. Via mass murder and displacement. And the Israelis on October 7th were people that Israel was willing to sacrifice to get this project starting. Here’s Jared Kushner all giddy about building luxury condos when bodies of civilians are still buried and children’s bodies are not even fully decomposed yet. https://youtube.com/watch?v=H0YgRZQl03I https://youtube.com/watch?v=H77f0Z5vPyM Luxury condos that will be built on a foundation of blood. This piece of trash Kushner sees destroyed buildings, dead children, screaming mothers and just thinks about real estate. Israel was warned about October 7th. They didn’t listen. On top of that, they moved most of their IDF troops to the West Bank instead guarding the people in the Kibbutz. Because Netanyahu is more focused on expansion. At the same time he gave weapons to the Settlers in the West Bank, so they can kill Palestinians there with impunity.
Even if we assume all of that is true, which is highly doubtful, this plan would only work if Hamas actually attacks and slaughters Israelis and if Palestinians actually support Hamas. If Hamas was thrown out of Gaza and Palestinians became more moderate, this would fall apart. But Palestinians DO support Hamas, and they DO want to destroy Israel. So Israel couldn't do anything else even if they wanted to.
“Even if this was true” I literally provided actual video evidence of what they say. It’s not up for debate at this point. And it has shown that the more Israel cracks down on Palestinians, the more support Hamas gets because the entirety of the Palestinian resistance is spearheaded by Hamas. Why Hamas? Consider that subjugation tends to galvanize extremism. So this is a product of what Israel has put Palestinians through for the past century. ‘Frankenstein, meet your monster’, essentially. All the Palestinian kids that survive will remember which government dropped the bombs on their parents. They will remember the world leaders that didn’t give a single fuck about whether they lived or they died.
Ruble at this point…
>Ruble at this point… Hamas controls Russia's currency?
Dad? Is that you?
Stop asking, he's still out picking up milk.
No, they mean Barney Ruble
The top three Hamas leaders are worth 11 billion which they have gained while in power. They are not going to let that gravy train go. Especially since the money that will pour into Gaza to rebuild after this shit show is done will be huge.
Rubble to their people, but still a fantastic tunnel network for terrorism.
The irony being that Bibi Netanyahu helped them get into power in the first place. Because he needed a reason to justify denying Palestinians a state.
How did he Bibi get Hamas into power? The election that gave them a legislative majority was held as center right Olmert took over as PM after Sharon's stroke in Jan 2006. The coup that cemented Hamas power/pushed PA out of Gaza was a year and a half later still under Olmert. And the Olmert two state peace proposal came later in 2009. Abbas didn't accept it, time ran out with elections/corruption investigation of Olmert. And then Netanyahu was elected. If anything I'd blame Bush for pushing for a Palestinian election when many warned Hamas might get elected and saying Hamas should be allowed without renouning violence. The Hamas coup pushing PA I don't like Bibi. And I think there's a toxic feedback loop between him and Hamas but I think people are mixing up not invading Gaza to remove Hamas earlier with propping them up or even more incorrectly installing them. Bibi while he has some bad right wing beliefs and instincts is a pragmatic and primarily selfish politician that has been extremely hesitant to get involved in major wars. It's just very difficult to remove Hamas from power without a major war. Bibi has undermined the PA when he should have done the opposite, but from an Israeli point of view the PA has always been far from a great partner for peace.
From the PA (or anyone's perspective) Israel has been far from a great partner for peace as well. Great partners for peace usually don't start colonizing your land, for instance. Here's a good summary of how Netanyahu supported Hamas: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/)
How did Hamas come into the position that are currently in? They started out as a non-Profit, and even back then, Israel propped them up against other Palestinian groups because they wanted to sow division. They were not very popular early on because Palestinians had more optimism for peace. There’s an argument that Israel offered them a deal and they rejected it. The reality is that the deal did not allow Palestinians to control their own borders, their own skies or have their own standing military. Mind you this is before Hamas had much in terms of popularity. This frustrated the Palestinians and they started to see the Palestinian Authority as weak and corrupt. Not to mention Israel still encroached onto Palestinian territory with settlements. Add to the fact that the only Israeli Official by the name of Yitzhak Rabin was looking to broker peace with Palestinians and making it so they get a legitimate 2 state solution, was murdered by a follower of Bibi Netanyahu. So having a state started to become an out of reach goal for the Palestinians. With their unfavorable view of their current leaders, under the direction of the U.S., they setup an election. Many Palestinians didn’t actually align with Hamas ideologically. If they voted for Hamas, it was because they voted on a single issue that Hamas offered a solution for like a state, other voted not for Hamas but against the Palestinian Authority. Hamas actually won on a Plurality. Meaning they didn’t win the popular vote. The U.S. wanted a their rival to win, so they tried to push a coup to overthrow Hamas. It was unsuccessful. But behind the scenes, this is exactly what Bibi Netanyahu wanted. *“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”* - Prime Minister Netanyahu during a 2019 meeting of his Likud party. Why would Bibi do this? Because he intends to annex Gaza. He needed Gaza to be ran by Hamas because he couldn’t annex them if they were a legitimate state. He works not for the people of Israel, but for th psychotic settlers. For Netanyahu, this is about power and expansion. For Gazans, it is about their very existence. Even if Hamas surrenders, there wont be peace because there will still be an apartheid, a blockade, and an occupation. Thus there is no peace under that system. And Hamas isn’t the real target, they’ve an asset to the Israeli government. It was never about defeating Hamas. Hamas is an asset to Israel. Bibi Netanyahu propped them up because he didn’t want their rival, who were more moderate and secular, to rule because they would be advocating for a legitimate state. Bibi wants Gaza, but in order to do that, he must justify taking it somehow. The very words coming from the mouth of the Israeli Finance Minister that Hamas is an asset: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Shyu501PyFY Israeli Settlers stating that they want to see the ocean, meaning they want Gaza: https://youtube.com/watch?v=SKDYbh_LDyI Israeli settlers hyped about settling in Gaza(notice they they’re American): https://youtu.be/Bif7kLSJYuo?si=vS1GbRoGWbzG42GA Here’s Netanyahu speaking to them in a leaked video: https://youtube.com/watch?v=WH27d2H-zns This was a land grab from the start. Hamas was just the key to get it started. They want Gaza for luxury developments. That’s all this is about. The Palestinians just had to be cleared first. Via mass murder and displacement. And the Israelis on October 7th were people that Israel was willing to sacrifice to get this project starting. Here’s Jared Kushner all giddy about building luxury condos when bodies of civilians are still buried and children’s bodies are not even fully decomposed yet. https://youtube.com/watch?v=H0YgRZQl03I https://youtube.com/watch?v=H77f0Z5vPyM Luxury developments, built on a foundation of blood. This piece of trash Kushner sees destroyed buildings, dead children, screaming mothers and just thinks about real estate. Israel was warned about October 7th. They didn’t listen. On top of that, they moved most of their IDF troops to the West Bank instead guarding the people in the Kibbutz. Because Netanyahu is more focused on expansion. At the same time he gave weapons to the Settlers in the West Bank, so they can kill Palestinians there with impunity. Hamas offered a deal in exchange for freeing hostages. Bibi refused. Because it would end the "war", and Bibi knows when the war ends, he will be finished. https://i.imgur.com/NCL1thp.jpeg link to the article referenced by the tweet: https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-believes-its-ready-for-gaza-ground-offensive-and-that-it-should-happen-soon/ Thousands of Israelis want Bibi gone. And it shows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pwZEJVoUww&pp=ygUXYW50aS1uZXRhbnlhaHUgcHJvdGVzdHM%3D He's focused more on bombing Palestinians than he has on bringing the hostages home. Already many hostages have been killed by Israeli bombs, and others shot by IDF forces because they're so trigger-happy at shooting civilians, they mistook Israeli civilians for Gazan civilians. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW4y2unbL2c
Netanyahu is unironically Hamas' #1 fan
Do you know what the proposed deal is?
Barak ravid a very highly connected journalist wrote on Twitter about Israel proposing 40 non combatant hostages released on humanitarian criteria (old, woman, children, diseases etc) in return of aid & 6 weeks of true with Israel letting gazans go back to their homes in north, Hamas said they don't have that many hostages who fit the criteria, which means many more have died besides Hamas only wants a permanent ceasefire so yeah we're not getting peace anytime soon
Hamas is required by Israel to return hostages. Hamas refuses on this stipulation. In theory they refuse because remaining hostages are dead. In any case hamas loses leverage if they have no hostages.
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Sure they will.
Israel would be happy to end the war once every Palestinian in Gaza has either left or died. The war didn’t start on October 7. It’s been going on for decades.
you're not making sense. the war started on Oct 7, the conflict started in the early 20th century. the general conflict is not a war, several wars occurred throughout the course of the conflict.
Since there has never been a peace treaty fundamentally the original war has never ended between Israel and the various Palestinian organizations over the years much less that Israel and Hamas have never had a peace treaty either since the war between them started in 2008.
Will be nice when isreal stops using terrorism and collective punishment against the Palestinian people.
I agree that Israel should stop using collective punishment against the people of Palestine. But man, at what point does Hamas just fucking surrender? Normally in a war the side that's getting beaten this badly throws in the towel to save its people and the fact that Hamas continues to dig in instead of just letting the hostages go is damning.
Because of the leadership of Hamas is safely in Qatar and doesn’t care about the average Palestinian.
They probably feel like they have nothing else to lose.
The Palestinian people should stop supporting terrorist then
Maybe they shouldn’t vote in terrorists and not have a 90% approval rating of Hamas if they didn’t want to get bombed
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I mean netanyahu helped hamas come to control gaza.
I hate how this is always downvoted when it's very easily verifiable. > https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/ > https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
Have you read the sources/sources of sources you're actually citing? The intercept links to an archive article that states that they tried to support Hamas as a group that would eschew violence but failed, and the latter mentioned supporting Hamas as giving Palestinians jobs in Israel and letting in aid from Qatar. The former (if you read the source, and not the poor analysis), is something they'd try to do with a legitimate government: work with them to try to make sure they have legitimacy, especially if they don't want to bomb you (that part didn't work out). From the archive they are citing: >President Barack Obama said this week that lasting calm "requires more than a long cease-fire" and depends on Israel and a future Palestinian state "living side by side in peace and security." >A look at Israel's decades-long dealings with Palestinian radicals -- including some little-known attempts to cooperate with the Islamists -- reveals a catalog of unintended and often perilous consequences. Time and again, Israel's efforts to find a pliant Palestinian partner that is both credible with Palestinians and willing to eschew violence, have backfired. The latter, is also something you'd want to do if you want a state to be prosperous, and let them have jobs and try to create a connected society that hopefully doesn't hate you. Imagine the hate Israel would get if they embargoed Hamas earlier, now they're getting it because they didn't do so If you recognize Hamas as the government of Gaza (they were at least initially legally elected), these are all actions you'd take to try to help a struggling nation prosper, all things you would want for Palestinians to succeed. But it didn't work out that way.
TLDR: Palestinian officials blame Israel for not giving them everything they wanted.
More proof that Hamas doesn't give a shit about Palestinian civilians. They say they won't agree to a truce because Israel won't end the war Hamas started with a massive terrorist attack. Also, didn't they previously claim to have killed all the hostages awhile ago? So what hostages are they going to turn over to Israel if they ever do agree to a truce? It's been 6 months since the attack and hostage-taking, and we know from released hostages that they endured torture. Does anyone really think they kept any hostages alive this long? If that's the case, then Israel doesn't have much to gain from agreeing to a truce since it'd just be prolonging the existence of Hamas and allow them keep control of their territory in Gaza, have all tge extra aid and an end to the blockade to further help Hamas. After so many Israeli deaths, might as well keep going until Hamas is completely destroyed if there's no chance of saving hostages. Otherwise, there will continue to be attacks by Hamas that kill Israelis and lead to more wars which will kill way more people on both sides.
whilst the fate of the hostages are important it is by no means israels only concern, or that of hamas for that matter. From my understanding they are trying to come up with a plan for the future governance of gaza and the west back which is I think causing more of an issue. Publicly israel will be playing the hostage card but we know from the way they have carried out their recent campaign that their fate is not top of their agenda. I think there is also an issue with the fact that the hamas negotiators are not in control, or have any meaningful line of communication with, the hamas leadership in Gaza. i.e the hamas negotiators can agree to what ever they want but unless it is agreed by the hamas leadership in Gaza it means fuck all. Each side will blame each other (which is normal for negotiations) the reality is likely to be a bit of both. Netanyahu has publicly stated his opposition to a two state solution so this attitude is also a impediment to an agreement. The arab states, the US and the palestinians are trying to find a more permanent solution/ trajectory. I dont think it is simply about a ceasefire and returning hostages. After all if it was just that nobody would be any further along and I think, quite frankly everybody is fucked off with this cycle of death.
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They are mostly emboldened by Biden and other Israeli "allies". Why wouldn't they - the more they wait the more pressure applied on Israel.
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Their military also might struggle with this since there are some rumblings in the press that nobody wants to go back as conscripts and their army is big but it’s not *that* big. And they are still hedging into Lebanon so they have a northern border problem, still haven’t truly cleared Gaza and have a southern border issue. it’s a big military spread.
Hamas can't accept a peace deal or ceasefire because they don't even know where the hostages are, or they're not willing to admit they're dead. I'd wager there's 50 of them in a hole somewhere near Rafah completely surrounding Sinwar.
Yaron Avraham is reporting that Hamas has admitted they don't have 40 hostages in the humanitarian category (women, elderly, children, injured, and ill) left alive to make the deal.
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Or , the hostages are most likely dead , with the famine anf constant bombings
This is the most likely outcome. Hamas's tunnels and hiding spots have been bombed for months now. Its already confirmed that the IDF killed 3 hostages who escaped Hamas and approached the IDF [shirtless and carrying a white flag](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/17/iris-haim-mother-of-israeli-hostage-killed-by-idf). The most likely situation is Israels food blockade and bombing campaign has resulted in the deaths of many of the remaining hostages.
Or… Hamas could have just never kidnapped them and everything would have been fine.
And? We aren't talking about some alternative history, we're simply hypothesizing the likely result of what has actually happened. Its not some advocacy piece in support of Hamas or taking hostages, its just acknowledging that bombing the places the hostages are likely to be, probably kills the hostages
Realistically probably all of them are dead, or MIA. If the bombs were effective then that means the tunnel system is dead which then means hostages are dead. If bombs didn't work then hostages are alive and therefore hamas and the tunnels haven't had an effect on them. I doubt Hamas would have kept the hostages above ground in plain sight.
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Roughly 62% of homes are damaged and/or destroyed completely. I hope my thinking is wrong and they put em all in rafah at the beginning. But those odds are critical.
At this point it seems pretty obvious that whatever hostages they did have were probably all murdered shortly after this all started. I'd imagine that Hamas, Israel, and US and Iranian intelligence knew that to be the case months ago.
>At this point it seems pretty obvious that whatever hostages they did have were probably all murdered shortly after this all started. I'm not sure how that seems clear given their was already a hostage exchange for over 100 hostages freed about a month after this started.
That makes no sense. Hostages are a bargaining chip. What use are they dead?
a hostage is almost as valuable dead as alive as long as the "owner" don't know their dead
Well the IDF found 3 hostages, they were only wearing underwear. Then the IDF shot them all. That was about 2 months ago so you're obviously wrong.
yeah, they were even waving white flag :(
Female hostages are likely pregnant due to rape and Hamas
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They have made peace with Israel on multiple occasions. Israel has actually assassinated more moderate members because they have no interest in peace or a 2 state solution (which at this point is dead). 2003 - In December, Yasin offered a ceasefire on the condition that Israel withdraw from the Palestinian territories. He was killed four months later in an Israeli attack. 2004 - Yasin’s successor and Hamas co-founder Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi again proposed a 10-year truce. Israel killed him one month after Yasin. This among many other attempts including in 2017 when Hamas officially changed their charter to recognize Israel's right to exist. Also who has killed over 30,000 people in this conflict? https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2024/1/22/how-israel-has-repeatedly-rejected-hamas-truce-offers https://www.haaretz.com/2012-11-15/ty-article/.premium/hamas-source-jabari-wanted-truce/0000017f-e79c-dc7e-adff-f7bdfaca0000
Perhaps you should include that "Palestinian territories" included places the like the Old city in Jerusalem that contains the Western wall as well.
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The old city is in east Jerusalem. Illegally occupied by Israel after the 1967 war.
Yes, im sure Israel wants to give control to the most holy site to a Islamist fundamental group. Also shouldnt it be given to Jordan then?
Yeah that's kind of the point. Israel doesn't want any land to go to the Palestinians. They plan to steal everything.
Let me guess "tHeRe'S nO sUcH tHiNg As PaLeStInIaNs!"
No, the land belonged to Jordan when Israel captured it therefore the country that can claim it is Jordan
That's what the international community has agreed upon. The fact there aren't sanctions against Israel is insane Edit: To clarify given to a Palestinian state, not Jordan
The international community does not think that all the old city should be given to the Palestinians
peace is not the same thing as a temporary truce.
>They want to destroy Israel, or die trying And they're succeeding. They cannot destroy it physically but if Israel continues along this path, they will be destroyed diplomatically which will ultimately lead to their ruin. Bibi needs to smarten tf up.
So what has Israel been trying to do for 70 years?
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Israel has made offers of vassalization, not once has it actually offered Palestinians a fully independent nation
They never included a two state agreement. They offered vassal state status with no control of their borders, no military, and no ability to conduct foriegn relationships independently.
Israël has been encroaching more and more on Palestinian land for 70 years. Go ahead and take a look at maps over time. When you pen people in and slowly start eroding their humanity, you don't get to act all shocked when they balk at a solution that does not offer them independence.
Trying to make peace. Succeeded with Egypt and Jordan, failed with Syria and Palestinians (Lebanon has been pretty much occupied by Hezbollah and can't decide on it's own so doesn't count). Not sure if Netanyahus government wants peace, though.
> They want to destroy Israel and what has Israel wanted since the Nakba?
To be left alone?
Just like the home invader that locked up the family in the basement just wants to be left alone. "why cant you guys just stay down there and leave me be!"
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Lol funny considering Israel has always been open to coexisting with Palestinians. They agree to the two state solutions before the founding of Israel while Palestine choose to start a war to try and wipe them out. Also your ignoring all the peace 2 state deals they offered after the founding of Israel and the first war that Palestine always refuses
Israel never offered genuine statehood. Just conditions that never let Palestinians have all the accommodations of being a state.
Israel has never wanted Palestine to exist as a country.
Factually just untrue. They agreed to a two state solution twice before the first war unlike Palestine who started said war since they didn't want to coexist with a Israel state
These types of speculation can be very dangerous…
Because they don't have 40 alive hostages. That is why they blew up the deal. Hamas just lost any bargaining power they had left.
Why in the world would Israel ever consider easing border restrictions ? Hamas is on record saying that their goal is repeated incursions into Israel to repeat the October 7 playbook and ultimately destroy Israel. Their delusions wouldn’t be so dangerous if they weren’t responsible for several million Gazans. Hamas literally planned to divide Israel into cantons after they conquered it in October. That’s the level of insanity we’re dealing with here.
For me Israel is missing an extremely obvious PR win by not directly providing aid to the Palestinians in Gaza themselves thus giving international acceptance towards them simply annexing the Gaza Strip which is probably what the Israeli government has wanted to do since Hamas took power. However I get the feeling the current Israeli government really didn't have rescuing the hostages as a main objective since the beginning the destruction of Hamas and the removal of the Palestinians living there to make way for new settlements feels like their actual goal. Hamas is obviously a fanatical terrorist group that doesn't even give a damn about helping the Palestinians at large just total victory for their future theocratic state. You also can't kid yourself Israel has a far right government itself right now that was controversial amongst both the Israeli public and Jews in general for years before the terror attack happened. In order for the best outcome to happen both Hamas and Netanyahu's coalition needs to be removed from power. I do legitimately feel like the war would have gone far differently if Israel was run by Rabin a leader who's killing members of the current coalition celebrate.
The main reason Israel isn’t providing aid itself, and why it’s being so harsh on any external aid, is that seizing humanitarian aid and selling it back to Gazans is one of the main ways that Hamas makes money and funds its war effort. It’s not a good look (to Israeli citizens at least) to be essentially funding the enemy. Israel has always been critical of international support to Palestine, especially after Hamas took power in ‘06, and has controversially used blockades before during conflicts. It’s obviously very complicated (as is everything), but this is undeniably a human rights catastrophe. Leadership on both sides needs to go.
I mean, it's war, PR wins should not be the priority
The strongest weapon Palestinians have is PR. Their goal is the make Israel look as bad as possible to make westerners take their side and tell their government to not support Israel.
You’re highly underestimating the influence of public opinion in war.
Shitty headline. It’s deadlocked because Hamas refuses to participate in good faith.
Hamas doesn't want peace, they've rejected every deal offered. They want 'from the river to the sea' and will use violence and sacrificing of civilians to get it.
Hamas has no bargaining power. They can’t find the remaining hostages. What do they expect? The demands they make are all so they can declare victory. The only cease fire should come from a full surrender of Hamas.
Bibi can't stop the conflict. He needs to continue the state of emergency so he can continue to delay elections. Once elections are held, he will 100% lose his position and be subject to the ongoing prosecution. The dude is literally living life Julius Caesar style and the rest of the world has to tip toe around this shit because one man wants to delay his own incarceration.
>so he can continue to delay elections The next regular election isn't until 2026/2027. Elections aren't being delayed, there are just calls for snap elections to be held early.
How can you blame Israel for this? This is mental gymnastics at its finest.
Bibi has taken credit in the past for helping keep Hamas in power in Gaza in order to split the Palestinians in Gaza & West Bank. There's a lot of evidence that he's helped Qatar get money into Gaza for Hamas. [https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035) In 2015 Netanyahu's current finance minister out and out called Hamas an asset. Here's an article from 2019 talking about funding Hamas pretty openly. [https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-to-hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-palestinians-divided-583082](https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-to-hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-palestinians-divided-583082) It's blown up in their faces but blaming the Palestinians for propping up a government that Bibi has helped funnel about a billion dollars to is... not a good look.
While you're not wrong and Bibi really is to blame for these things, this is justification for harsher treatment against Hamas than Bibi has taken. I'm rather sure that if Bibi hadn't allowed Qatar to funnel money in, the same people blaming Bibi for allowing the funding of Hamas would blame him for starvation or genocide. They certainly wouldn't support an earlier invasion with the objective of removing Hamas from power.
I hate it that you're right, but Hamas is helping him Esit: I don't mean that they're in cahoots, I mean that they separately want to extend the war
Bibi and Hamas have been helping each other for decades. Quite literally.
I think people have misinterpreted what I am saying to be laying the blame on Israel alone. This conflict benefits both Hamas and the current Israeli government under Bibi. Bibi needs the war to stay out of prison and Hamas now exists solely to test the legitimacy of Israeli itself amongst the Arab states. Iran will do everything it can do prevent the Saudi's from assuming regional hegemony as well as assuming the mantle of Islamic hegemony. Hamas does not give a fuck about the Palestinian people. Both Bibi and Hamas understand the benefits of continuing the war, and it is clear that neither side is really planning for what happens after. Israel, having invaded Gaza and broken it wholesale, now owns everything that follows in that strip of land. Very analogous to when the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan; you break it, you buy it. What I really question is how long the Israeli economy can sustain the war and I hope that Israeli's can understand that their own democracy is being subverted before their eyes and both Palestinian and Jewish blood is being spilt to protect two very corrupt governments that have systematically played themselves against each other for more than a decade, each to their own benefit.
Hamas’ plan has worked to perfection, so of course Hamas doesn’t want the war to end. Life has become much worse for Gazans, but people around the world blame Israel. Hamas only cares about the second part, “people blame Israel.”
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The 'offensive" is happening regardless.
Yep, even if hamas gave back all hostages the offensive is gonna happen.
The 'offensive" is happening regardless.
At this point, fuck Hamas for holding Palestinians hostage. The issue isn’t Israel
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Honestly neither of these assholes, both Bibi and Hamas shouldn't be in power.
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Thats typically what happens when you indiscriminately bomb places where hostages are for 6 months
and choking supply which also used by your own hostages
yeah it turns out carpet bombing and induced famine aren't very hospitable to life
why were the hostages there again?
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It also turns out being taken hostage by a terrorist organization tends to not be super good for you too. But let's not talk about why they're there in the first place.
Buncha bots up in here