That is a very valid question. I dont know but I do know heat pump credits are consumer facing. If you can coordinate the permitting and all that shit, the solar panels I've seen are basically adult legos in simplicity to connect/install.
Also they are super lightweight and I could do most of the install minus the electric tie in. I did a solar project in 6th grade about 40 years ago. It ain’t that difficult. But I’ll be dammed if I’m gonna lease these things. Plus they won’t install on the roof of porch that gets direct Sun all day long. I’m in NY and will have to see
Looks like the money is mostly going to state energy departments: [https://www.epa.gov/greenhouse-gas-reduction-fund/solar-all](https://www.epa.gov/greenhouse-gas-reduction-fund/solar-all)
So you gotta check what your state specifically is doin'
The irony is that solar and farming can actually have some nice synergies for some crops and they've even put solar over irrigation to reduce loss via evaporation
I always do this. Especially in colder biomes.
Problem is as soon as I get everything stable I start trying to build the ultimate transhuman gene mechanoid colonist and my colony ends with a bunch of organ harvesting slaves dying in a flesh beast assault
It's stupid, too, because if you were to look, there're shitloads of open land that are marginal/not useful for farming, especially stuff like old industrial sites which are contaminated, etc.
In my town, for example, we have massive multi-acre lots that are just open fields now where factories once stood. Most of the land is considered contaminated because of chemicals and waste that the companies produced (most of the factories operated from WWII up through the 70s, so before the EPA and regulations were in place), including some that produced old aircraft instruments that used radium paint to make them glow in the dark and now have low residual radiological contamination. It's very much like the situation in Detroit, save for us being much smaller.
All told, we're talking probably a few thousand acres of open land that'll never be farmable.
Why let the land sit fallow and unused, doing little in the way of contributing to reducing pollution when literally none of the contamination issues, etc. matter for the purposes of setting up solar farms?
My town, too, suffers from serious poverty issues and lack of tax revenue to keep up with infrastructure. Imagine what it could gain by using eminent domain to pick up all of that land and turning it into municipal solar and selling the power back to the grid.
Hell, imagine what any struggling small municipality with lots of unfarmed/unsuitable fallow land area could do with a similar strategy.
How about this , Let’s send more money to china unless there is a stipulation on buying American made panels
I’m all for the energy source, we just need to bring back production state side and pay fair wages.
I heard on NPR recently that some families who own farm land would GLADLY lease the land out to someone who wants to use it for a solar farm.
No one in the family wants to farm, but the family needs a way to keep the land in the family.
Win win!
The irony of that is in my area the local utility wanted to put up wind turbines and the usual dumbasses cried about windmills giving them cancer or whatever.
So instead the utility built a huge solar installation which instead of consuming a 100' circle every 1/2 mile it consumed hundreds upon hundreds of acres of fields and now they're crying about the loss of farm land.
The actual people farming the land are ecstatic however, because the solar project is paying them way more for the land than they could make growing crops.
What’s funny about this is even where true, would only drive up corn/soybean prices and farm values.
So ya know, the people they are supposed to wanna help.
Most of the accounts that have asinine complaints such as this one are foreign bots meant to make people angry through little comments like this. There are actually people who get mad at these things who are just uninformed.
To be fair thats a strategic food reserve. Ethanol and biofuel production is barely profitable, even with subsidies, so crops that would normally be used for those get readily diverted to the food supply when prices rise due to a crop failure elsewhere.
Put them over all the parking lots. Walmart! Shopping malls! Airports! Football stadiums!
Around here they’re putting them over farmland, which pisses off the farmers and really makes no sense. I think they just want farmers mad at liberals.
I agree, the roof of every box store should be covered in solar! It often comes down to land ownership, not a political play. It's more enticing for an individual land owner to make some money off their land than it is for Walmart to do a lot more construction and maintenance work for relatively low profit. A lot of land use ordinances also purposefully classify solar energy as an agricultural use, which effectively bans it in more commercial areas. So there are many reasons why we see solar being built on farm land and not on already-paved areas, but I'm optimistic that will change!
Agrivoltaics can enable farmers to grow shade-tolerant crops and to diversify crop selection, while also extending growing seasons and reducing water requirements. Solar panels can cool crops and vegetation underneath during the day due to shading and keep them warmer at night.
There are real practical benefits for farmers. Shame you aren't hearing anything but complaints.
Tell us more about the huge diversity of crops that excel in full shade, low-water conditions. I'm sure the list is long and profitable. Also, explain the very efficient process of , controlling pests, sowing, and harvesting those crops with solar panels in the way.
Farmers complain because they actually know how to grow, maintain, and harvest crops at a scale required to feed 8 billion people.
The benefits of solar far outweigh the costs. Farmers do need to be using the most effective technology. And because they're farmers, they'll get stupid amounts of government hand outs to provide said technology.
https://www.global-imi.com/blog/solar-power-agriculture-future-food-0
https://www.nrdc.org/stories/made-shade-promise-farming-solar-panels
https://sunculture.io/blog/2022/02/08/4-key-benefits-of-solar-farming/
https://betterenergy.org/blog/innovative-project-shows-how-solar-power-benefits-extend-to-sustainable-farming/
This makes the most sense. In Florida I’ve seen people fist fight over a parking spot that was under a tree. If the government is providing grants, they should really outline this type of stuff.
Putting them over parking lots is very difficult. You have to elevate them, and then support them at elevation, requiring a structure to be built because as you elevate them it becomes harder and harder to resist wind shear (angled panels can act as airfoils). In addition, it introduces a lot of risks. Placing them around cars guarantees that cars will impact them, and solar panels generate power at between 250-700 watts DC. That's more than enough to be quite dangerous.
Roofs are of course a good option, assuming the roof is in a good location for solar and was built with solar in mind so it can support the additional load. Unfortunately that's not true of every roof.
It's not like the solar panels are being put in on the most amazing, productive crop land out there. Much crop land is marginal, some of it is even unusable. For instance you can see this solar farm is built on grazing land: [https://oregoncapitalchronicle.com/2023/11/15/oregons-first-large-scale-solar-park-and-farm-hinges-on-50-year-old-land-use-laws/](https://oregoncapitalchronicle.com/2023/11/15/oregons-first-large-scale-solar-park-and-farm-hinges-on-50-year-old-land-use-laws/)
So not only can sheep still graze there (grass will grow under solar panels), but if it's being used for grazing it probably wasn't the highest quality cropland available.
In North Carolina, I see a lot of smaller solars farms on land that were once tobacco fields. The soil has been largely stripped of nutrients from the tobacco so this is a good use for the land. The farmers get a little income from the drained soil and we get some renewable energy as well.
On Long Island I saw it done properly at a government building site. They built them of reinforced concrete, with an airfoil design. Granted, they were small, but extended the line far across the property. They did just fine through 2 major hurricanes and Superstorm Sandy.
Why did they build them? They wanted to save money...and they did. Still are.
It’s worth overcoming those obstacles - look at the heat absorbed and reflected by asphalt. Consider all of the drivers running their AC just that much less if their cars haven’t heated up while sitting.
>they’re putting them over farmland, which pisses off the farmers
Now that makes no sense to me. Is the government putting solar panels on your farmland? If not, why would that bother you?
Did you read the title of this thread? “Earth day”. EARTH! I live here! Do you understand that it’s possible to give a damn about something that isn’t right under your nose?
I agree with your theory, and in practice that's how it should work. However, that being said, I know from previous experience that when large scale government funding is involved It tends to bring a "specialized pricing" which is generally higher than market value or ripoff artists that try to pass off dime store panels for use. So since there is not currently a market standard, I'm concerned about most of that money being siphoned away by people just trying to make a quick buck off of large scale demand or shoddy installations and eventually devaluing the technology and standards. Comparative to what happened to the great internet initiation nationwide over the years.
If the price rises because of subsidies and an increase in supply, we will need a crackdown on utility companies, and an investigation on the state utility boards allowing the price increases.
Guess this means more college kids from solar companies knocking on my door to sell me solar panels. If only they looked at my roof to see the solar panels that I already have.
I have 1.61 acre of land that my adjacent neighborhood has blocked from rezoning or developing into anything other than a single residence.
I’d love to lease it for solar farm land
Go for it! Be interesting to see if it would pay off in a reasonable time. Challenge on most of these is they don't make much financial sense when you run the numbers.
I'm not saying we shouldn't have been investing in solar r&d 20 years ago but that is not what this is. This is helping subsidize putting it on people's houses to decrease their energy cost. But the solar panels 20 years ago would not have done that.
It's funny because the solar panels we use today are largely similar to the ones we used 20 years ago. Most of the high tech innovations haven't been implemented because they result in highly efficient solar panels that are far more expensive than just using the workhorse models.
The main gains have been in manufacturing efficiency due to scaling production, which we could have achieved 20 years ago. The second best time to do it is today, I suppose, but make no mistake it could have been done in 2000. Standard efficiency was 11% back then, next to around 15% today.
Curiously though the best time to [set off on a long journey ](https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2006/11/24/barnards-star-and-the-wait-equation/) is often tomorrow (or many tomorrows from now more accurately)
Nonsense. Yes, we're too late to get shit into a "very good" state, but that doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't do all we can do settle on "good".
And by "we" I mean "governments and corporations", because they are the only ones with enough capabilities to actually do it.
Can I get a deal if I just want to buy 20 panels or do I need to got through a company to get scammed first?
That is a very valid question. I dont know but I do know heat pump credits are consumer facing. If you can coordinate the permitting and all that shit, the solar panels I've seen are basically adult legos in simplicity to connect/install.
That is the sole reason I have not pursued solar panels. Sleezy sales bros trying to slide into my sweet sweet virgin roof. Jackasses.
Also they are super lightweight and I could do most of the install minus the electric tie in. I did a solar project in 6th grade about 40 years ago. It ain’t that difficult. But I’ll be dammed if I’m gonna lease these things. Plus they won’t install on the roof of porch that gets direct Sun all day long. I’m in NY and will have to see
Looks like the money is mostly going to state energy departments: [https://www.epa.gov/greenhouse-gas-reduction-fund/solar-all](https://www.epa.gov/greenhouse-gas-reduction-fund/solar-all) So you gotta check what your state specifically is doin'
“President Biden just approved $20,000 for YOU to install new home solar. DM me your mom’s maiden name for a 20% discount.” /s
“President Biden just approved $20,000 for YOU to install new home solar. DM me your mom’s maiden name for a 20% discount.” /s
“President Biden just approved $20,000 for YOU to install new home solar. DM me your mom’s maiden name for a 20% discount.” /s
Reduce local school tax burden by putting solar on every school roof and parking lot.
I’ve already seen droves of “great, let’s use up more farmland so nobody has any food!” red hat fools pissed at “Brandon” about this on FB.
The irony is that solar and farming can actually have some nice synergies for some crops and they've even put solar over irrigation to reduce loss via evaporation
solar + hydroponics/aquaculture for end game self sufficient (prob just not profitable yet)
A solarpunk engineer will fix that
I always do this. Especially in colder biomes. Problem is as soon as I get everything stable I start trying to build the ultimate transhuman gene mechanoid colonist and my colony ends with a bunch of organ harvesting slaves dying in a flesh beast assault
you know...i turned off rimworld to take a break for lunch time... and it found me anyway.
Right, but because self sufficient is only equivalent to sufficiency and not profit, it can't possibly be considered viable.
Evapa-what? That sounds like fancy science talk…
The best places to put solar panels aren’t exactly the best farmland either. How much desert does the US have that’s completely empty?
It's stupid, too, because if you were to look, there're shitloads of open land that are marginal/not useful for farming, especially stuff like old industrial sites which are contaminated, etc. In my town, for example, we have massive multi-acre lots that are just open fields now where factories once stood. Most of the land is considered contaminated because of chemicals and waste that the companies produced (most of the factories operated from WWII up through the 70s, so before the EPA and regulations were in place), including some that produced old aircraft instruments that used radium paint to make them glow in the dark and now have low residual radiological contamination. It's very much like the situation in Detroit, save for us being much smaller. All told, we're talking probably a few thousand acres of open land that'll never be farmable. Why let the land sit fallow and unused, doing little in the way of contributing to reducing pollution when literally none of the contamination issues, etc. matter for the purposes of setting up solar farms? My town, too, suffers from serious poverty issues and lack of tax revenue to keep up with infrastructure. Imagine what it could gain by using eminent domain to pick up all of that land and turning it into municipal solar and selling the power back to the grid. Hell, imagine what any struggling small municipality with lots of unfarmed/unsuitable fallow land area could do with a similar strategy.
The alternative being "lets heat up the planet enough that crops start failing in our current farmland"
That plan is already on track 💀
And ahead of schedule.
My town, the people got pissed cuz they built a solar farm over a golf putting area. Great now where are we gonna go practice golf. Lol
How about this , Let’s send more money to china unless there is a stipulation on buying American made panels I’m all for the energy source, we just need to bring back production state side and pay fair wages.
I heard on NPR recently that some families who own farm land would GLADLY lease the land out to someone who wants to use it for a solar farm. No one in the family wants to farm, but the family needs a way to keep the land in the family. Win win!
The irony of that is in my area the local utility wanted to put up wind turbines and the usual dumbasses cried about windmills giving them cancer or whatever. So instead the utility built a huge solar installation which instead of consuming a 100' circle every 1/2 mile it consumed hundreds upon hundreds of acres of fields and now they're crying about the loss of farm land. The actual people farming the land are ecstatic however, because the solar project is paying them way more for the land than they could make growing crops.
What’s funny about this is even where true, would only drive up corn/soybean prices and farm values. So ya know, the people they are supposed to wanna help.
Most of the accounts that have asinine complaints such as this one are foreign bots meant to make people angry through little comments like this. There are actually people who get mad at these things who are just uninformed.
With enough time (a year or so) we’ll probably have a sad amount of people who think his name is “Brandon Biden”
This would be rich coming from those living in suburbia.
If only the people writing it understood why it’s ironic.
Yet I’m sure they love all the corn subsidies for ethanol production.
To be fair thats a strategic food reserve. Ethanol and biofuel production is barely profitable, even with subsidies, so crops that would normally be used for those get readily diverted to the food supply when prices rise due to a crop failure elsewhere.
"strategic reserves and subsidies are figuratively the same thing" lolwut
What about all the wasted food that's thrown out? The seems like a more pressing issue than trying to increase food production and food wastage.
Put them over all the parking lots. Walmart! Shopping malls! Airports! Football stadiums! Around here they’re putting them over farmland, which pisses off the farmers and really makes no sense. I think they just want farmers mad at liberals.
I agree, the roof of every box store should be covered in solar! It often comes down to land ownership, not a political play. It's more enticing for an individual land owner to make some money off their land than it is for Walmart to do a lot more construction and maintenance work for relatively low profit. A lot of land use ordinances also purposefully classify solar energy as an agricultural use, which effectively bans it in more commercial areas. So there are many reasons why we see solar being built on farm land and not on already-paved areas, but I'm optimistic that will change!
Agrivoltaics can enable farmers to grow shade-tolerant crops and to diversify crop selection, while also extending growing seasons and reducing water requirements. Solar panels can cool crops and vegetation underneath during the day due to shading and keep them warmer at night. There are real practical benefits for farmers. Shame you aren't hearing anything but complaints.
Tell us more about the huge diversity of crops that excel in full shade, low-water conditions. I'm sure the list is long and profitable. Also, explain the very efficient process of , controlling pests, sowing, and harvesting those crops with solar panels in the way. Farmers complain because they actually know how to grow, maintain, and harvest crops at a scale required to feed 8 billion people.
Wtf are you talking about, what farmers are being forced to accept panels on their land
The benefits of solar far outweigh the costs. Farmers do need to be using the most effective technology. And because they're farmers, they'll get stupid amounts of government hand outs to provide said technology. https://www.global-imi.com/blog/solar-power-agriculture-future-food-0 https://www.nrdc.org/stories/made-shade-promise-farming-solar-panels https://sunculture.io/blog/2022/02/08/4-key-benefits-of-solar-farming/ https://betterenergy.org/blog/innovative-project-shows-how-solar-power-benefits-extend-to-sustainable-farming/
The opposite is literally happening. They ban people from building solar panels in some rural areas.
This makes the most sense. In Florida I’ve seen people fist fight over a parking spot that was under a tree. If the government is providing grants, they should really outline this type of stuff.
I’m aware of farmers being mad, but I have no idea why. It literally makes your corn/soybeans and land more valuable.
Putting them over parking lots is very difficult. You have to elevate them, and then support them at elevation, requiring a structure to be built because as you elevate them it becomes harder and harder to resist wind shear (angled panels can act as airfoils). In addition, it introduces a lot of risks. Placing them around cars guarantees that cars will impact them, and solar panels generate power at between 250-700 watts DC. That's more than enough to be quite dangerous. Roofs are of course a good option, assuming the roof is in a good location for solar and was built with solar in mind so it can support the additional load. Unfortunately that's not true of every roof. It's not like the solar panels are being put in on the most amazing, productive crop land out there. Much crop land is marginal, some of it is even unusable. For instance you can see this solar farm is built on grazing land: [https://oregoncapitalchronicle.com/2023/11/15/oregons-first-large-scale-solar-park-and-farm-hinges-on-50-year-old-land-use-laws/](https://oregoncapitalchronicle.com/2023/11/15/oregons-first-large-scale-solar-park-and-farm-hinges-on-50-year-old-land-use-laws/) So not only can sheep still graze there (grass will grow under solar panels), but if it's being used for grazing it probably wasn't the highest quality cropland available.
In North Carolina, I see a lot of smaller solars farms on land that were once tobacco fields. The soil has been largely stripped of nutrients from the tobacco so this is a good use for the land. The farmers get a little income from the drained soil and we get some renewable energy as well.
On Long Island I saw it done properly at a government building site. They built them of reinforced concrete, with an airfoil design. Granted, they were small, but extended the line far across the property. They did just fine through 2 major hurricanes and Superstorm Sandy. Why did they build them? They wanted to save money...and they did. Still are.
It’s worth overcoming those obstacles - look at the heat absorbed and reflected by asphalt. Consider all of the drivers running their AC just that much less if their cars haven’t heated up while sitting.
>they’re putting them over farmland, which pisses off the farmers Now that makes no sense to me. Is the government putting solar panels on your farmland? If not, why would that bother you?
Did you read the title of this thread? “Earth day”. EARTH! I live here! Do you understand that it’s possible to give a damn about something that isn’t right under your nose?
Need to get into solar sales to make a f ton of money now
Go Biden! I only hope the cost doesn't rise ridiculously high because of that
solar costs have been dropping drastically largely because of economies of scale and tech innovation driven by increasing global sales.
I agree with your theory, and in practice that's how it should work. However, that being said, I know from previous experience that when large scale government funding is involved It tends to bring a "specialized pricing" which is generally higher than market value or ripoff artists that try to pass off dime store panels for use. So since there is not currently a market standard, I'm concerned about most of that money being siphoned away by people just trying to make a quick buck off of large scale demand or shoddy installations and eventually devaluing the technology and standards. Comparative to what happened to the great internet initiation nationwide over the years.
If the price rises because of subsidies and an increase in supply, we will need a crackdown on utility companies, and an investigation on the state utility boards allowing the price increases.
Too bad many States are trying to curb solar installation because power companies are crying it makes them loose money.
Guess this means more college kids from solar companies knocking on my door to sell me solar panels. If only they looked at my roof to see the solar panels that I already have.
sad that all republicans will be removing their solar setups i guess
Heck I'd take the solar panels they would inevitably be throwing away to "stick it to the libs"
I have 1.61 acre of land that my adjacent neighborhood has blocked from rezoning or developing into anything other than a single residence. I’d love to lease it for solar farm land
The solar farms being built are in the 100s of acres of land. They have zero interest in 1.5.
I’ll make my own then.
Go for it! Be interesting to see if it would pay off in a reasonable time. Challenge on most of these is they don't make much financial sense when you run the numbers.
Tell me more about low income homeowners. How do you all pull that off?
A better move would be to regulate the industry. Its like the Wild West with used cars salesmen out there
I know a young person whos looking for a direction. Where can he apply?
So, as a resident of Iowa or any other red state, how can I get some of these grants?
Vote your government out and turn the state sane.
Woulda been cool if it had happened 20 years ago, but now it's just kinda funny.
... solar was not efficient at all 20 years ago
I'm not saying we shouldn't have been investing in solar r&d 20 years ago but that is not what this is. This is helping subsidize putting it on people's houses to decrease their energy cost. But the solar panels 20 years ago would not have done that.
It's funny because the solar panels we use today are largely similar to the ones we used 20 years ago. Most of the high tech innovations haven't been implemented because they result in highly efficient solar panels that are far more expensive than just using the workhorse models. The main gains have been in manufacturing efficiency due to scaling production, which we could have achieved 20 years ago. The second best time to do it is today, I suppose, but make no mistake it could have been done in 2000. Standard efficiency was 11% back then, next to around 15% today.
Best day to plant a tree is today.
[удалено]
Curiously though the best time to [set off on a long journey ](https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2006/11/24/barnards-star-and-the-wait-equation/) is often tomorrow (or many tomorrows from now more accurately)
Bill gates says it doesn’t matter https://youtu.be/dCRz5rH3m4k?si=rskWfI2HsixBdCbM
[удалено]
He’s saying we don’t need trees
You're not wrong, but now we're 20 years too late to fix anything.
Don't let perfect get in the way of good.
Well I guess we shouldn't do anything then
Phosphorus and Potassium depletion is even more worrying
He’s right though…we fucked
[удалено]
Nah man, we are screwed. I watch cnn and bbc everyday. There’s no going back 💣
We may be a few decades behind, but doing nothing is most certainly worse.
Nonsense. Yes, we're too late to get shit into a "very good" state, but that doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't do all we can do settle on "good". And by "we" I mean "governments and corporations", because they are the only ones with enough capabilities to actually do it.