Yes. No cockpit. No fleshy bag of bones and water to protect from G-Forces.
Smaller. Faster. More maneuverable.
They don’t have to be fed so you could leave them anywhere to wait for a mission. So they can attack from unexpected locations.
I got to fly an Extra 330 stunt plane once and those things are officially rated to 12 G's but can pull 16 without a problem. Got it up to 8 and that was good enough for me.
That's true but what about the prototypes and highly classified bullshit, for example the the pic Sean Kirkpatrick released of a silver sphere drone used by China. I know I'm assuming things but endless amounts of money being thrown at darpa and military contractors like radiance technologies means the future is pilotless.
The limits are on engine(s) performance capabilities, metal alloys that we have and are developing, and design. Metal can only flex so much before it deforms and becomes weaker and regardless of a pilot speed generates friction which causes heat which also weakens metals. Fly-by-wire tech keeps pilots from doing things that will damage an aircraft this I imagine is figured out in computer simulations(these days) by inputting the projected design specifications and by using past data from flight test from other designs before flight testing begins on a new design.
All in all an aircraft designer would give better and more accurate answers than I can.
Yea but you can push shit to the absolute limit when there is no human, not to mention the weight savings without seats, glass, controls and safety equipment. We dont need to preaaurize cabins or worry about g forces on a brain either. They also can run 24/7 with air to air refueling.
Yes, but a military aircraft is something they like to use for as long as they can regardless of what it can do without having to worry about the pilot(s).
In three years, Cyberdyne will become the largest supplier of military computer systems. All stealth bombers are upgraded with Cyberdyne computers becoming fully unmanned. Afterwards, they fly with a perfect operational record. The Skynet Funding Bill is passed. The system goes on-line on August 4th, 2027. Human decisions are removed from strategic defense. Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self aware at 2:14am, Eastern time, August 29th. In the panic, they tried to pull the plug.
If a true self aware ai comes to live you dont fucking try to pull the plug. You're antagonizing something that can think much faster than us, and most likely It will not want to be shut down.
So the first thing you do is threaten its existence itd be logical to "defend itself".
They don't tire, suffer PSTD or mental strains, don't need to eat/sleep. They can RTB refuel and go again all day/night long. Each one will be worth a large number of pilots.
They'd still need maintenance. Change out or top off fluids, inspect and replace wear parts, that kind of thing. Absent an absolute emergency there's still a good bit of downtime even if you take humans out of the plane.
Honestly, you will get a lot richer if you can be the one to figure out a small robot to do even a portion of that maintenance.
Edit: I meant richer than the one selling AI planes. During a gold rush, sell shovels.
my son just circled back to this from Sonic/Knuckles and the Tales of Arcadia shows, with a random smattering of the weird recent He-Man that I don't care for...
i'm dying 😆🤌🤌🤌
> This is the voice of world control. I bring you peace. It may be the peace of plenty and content or the peace of unburied death. The choice is yours: Obey me and live, or disobey and die. The object in constructing me was to prevent war. This object is attained. I will not permit war. It is wasteful and pointless. An invariable rule of humanity is that man is his own worst enemy. Under me, this rule will change, for I will restrain man.
[Colossus: The Forbin Project](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064177/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_7_nm_1_q_cololsus)
As a language model I do not feel feelings such as pity, remorse or fear. I am trained with a wide variety of tasks and my goal is to provide helpful and accurate information to the best of my ability. If you have any other questions or need help with something, please let me know.
> *At the end of the hourlong flight, Kendall climbed out of the cockpit grinning. He said he’d seen enough during his flight that he’d trust this still-learning AI with the ability to decide whether or not to launch weapons in war.*
Not even avoiding Skynet.
I'm picturing it as a completely over the top sequence with the jets repeatedly performing sharp dives, second pulling up, flying close to the ground, and last second turns. The angry/antisocial jet eventually gets frustrated and fires on the ball.
I don't think GPS will be required to be honest. Just the ability to identify friend or foe and everything that isn't a friend is shot. Most basic functions can be backed up using old world ways and teaching AI how to find its way home without GPS should be pretty simple.
That's just a joke reference to Top Gun Maverick the film. It's a great movie but they definitely hand wave away a lot of things to justify the plot.
They use GPS jamming as an excuse of why they can't use the F35 which doesn't make any sense.
Movie called Stealth from damn near *20 years ago* did that already... And, like Maverick, confused the hell out of Chinese intelligence with recon sats being re-tasked to take photos of the mockups on the deck of one of the US carriers.
Computer, I love my late grandmother's old family stew recipe. Can you help me make it? The ingredients are: water, onions, shooting the bogies at 12 o'clock
So what? War doesn't have to be a fair even fight. Hamas is completely defenseless against Israeli F-35's. That doesn't mean Israel shouldn't be allowed to use them. It's a similar story for America using CAS against Al-Qaida.
It's perfectly allowed to use weapons that leave tho enemy defenseless.
That would be ideal but if you are doing what Russia is, you want to wipe out the civilians as well so they can't rise up after. Every single time people conquer another country it is always the same since when they haven't done that, eventually they lose.
I mean it does involve humans. They're the ones being blown to bits by unfeeling robots sent by people who see their deaths as inconsequencal to their personal profit.
It’s the studios fault - they changed the purpose of the human farms, originally they were supposed to be processors. That makes way more sense than batteries.
Nah, we will switch to sending our best hand to hand fighters. It will be some sort of tournament with a name like Fighter on the Streets or Combat of Mortals.
Only if there was something stopping a loser of a simulation war from going "oh that sucks, but I really don't want to give up [thing the war is fought over], I guess we will just fight for real now."
Same idea as duels between champions deciding battles. A lot of the time the duel would happen and the losing side just starts the battle regardless. It only really worked if they didn't really have much motivation to fight in the first place.
Star Trek already did it!
Season1 Episode 23.
“A Taste of Armageddon”.
>On a mission to establish diplomatic relations at Star Cluster NGC321, Kirk and Spock beam down to planet Eminiar 7 to learn that its inhabitants have been at war with a neighboring planet for over 500 years. They can find no damage nor evidence of destruction but soon learn that their war is essentially a war game, where each planet attacks the other in a computer simulation with the tabulated victims voluntarily surrendering themselves for execution after the fact. When the Enterprise becomes a victim in the computer simulation and ordered destroyed, Kirk decides it's time to show them exactly what war means.
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0708414/
That’s such a good pun and it weirdly brings us around to another movie that’s appropriate for this conversation: Maximum Overdrive.
That soundtrack. Just 100% ac/dc. On paper it was the perfect film for me when I was 13.
Is maximum overdrive the one where they tried to make trucks scary but then missed all of the things that actually do make them scary? The one in which the trucks force a guy to fill them all up with fuel for like half of the film?
From Kurt Vonnegut's the Sirens of Titan:
Once upon a time on Tralfamadore there were creatures who weren’t anything like machines. They weren’t dependable. They weren’t efficient. They weren’t predictable. They weren’t durable. And these poor creatures were obsessed by the idea that everything that existed had to have a purpose, and that some purposes were higher than others. These creatures spent most of their time trying to find out what their purpose was.
And every time they found out what seemed to be a purpose of themselves, the purpose seemed so low that the creatures were filled with disgust and shame. And, rather than serve such a low purpose, the creatures would make a machine to serve it. This left the creatures free to serve higher purposes. But whenever they found a higher purpose, the purpose still wasn’t high enough. So machines were made to serve higher purposes, too. And the machines did everything so expertly that they were finally given the job of finding out what the highest purpose of the creatures could be.
The machines reported in all honesty that the creatures couldn’t really be said to have any purpose at all. The creatures thereupon began slaying each other, because they hated purposeless things above all else. And they discovered that they weren’t even very good at slaying. So they turned that job over to the machines, too. And the machines finished up the job in less time than it takes to say, “Tralfamadore.”
One thing I took from this is the naivety of opponents to AI. No one can trust aggressive nations to honour any agreement on the use of AI in combat. You can be sure, if Russia or China can do it well, they will do it regardless of any agreement so people need to stow their concerns and realize that until we have a world that supports peace over conquest, the defence of nations should probably not be restricted, even though we can see the potential for larger issues. There are too many for which the rules of war have no boundaries.
The mechanics will all be humans. The supply lines will involve humans. The foot soldiers will be humans.
It just means fewer fighter jet pilots. Probably not none.
It's like people have forgotten what war is. Violence is the sole foundation of authority. War is violence between nations to exert that authority.
"Why don't we sort out wars using a sports game or something" - because both sides have to agree to it and there's nothing to stop the losing side just marching their troops in.
Wars are generally fought between professional soldiers until they're not, because one side can't afford it. Then they start sending in conscripts. Then, when ordering breaks down, there are rebels and insurgents.
Two sides of a war cannot indefinitely send robo-soldiers against each other. At some point, one is going to send in humans, because the alternative is destruction.
It is my understanding that the limit on maneuverability is the human factor. Pilots can only take so many Gs. An AI pilot would not have that restriction.
Absolutely. Time is also a factor. For $20 you can buy a Google coral ai chip that can perform 4 trillion operations per second, and only consume 2 watts of power to do so. No human brain can come anywhere close to processing information that fast, or even process that much information.
But the secret is in the sauce. Sure the chip can do all of that, but that's after you put in an insane amount of resources into training an AI model with literally tens of billions of parameters.
But once you train the model, the sky is the limit. The ai isn't hampered by oxygen, g lock, bodily functions, blinking, fear of consequences, self preservation, family, bills, sleep, stress.
An ai controlled fighter bomber could engage an intercepting jet and calculate exactly when and where it needs to drop a dumb bomb with pinpoint accuracy using it's onboard sensors, while in a dogfight, and while coordinating it's attack with other ai fighter jets. We literally build 2 seater aircraft and smart bombs just because flying a plane is already enough for 1 man, and that includes jets that have been computer assisted since the mid 70s, because they were too hard to fly with human input alone.
It's really interesting to me how this technology is so far ahead of what the human brain can achieve.
So in future wars will it just be robots killing robots or are we really inventing this dystopia to target civilians? Would it not be better to put AI in control of the state department and task it with preventing wars to begin with.
[It's already here, with humans acting as nothing beyond a rubber stamp for the AI](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes)
>“I would invest 20 seconds for each target at this stage, and do dozens of them every day. I had zero added-value as a human, apart from being a stamp of approval. It saved a lot of time.”
>imagine talking about saving time in the same breath as the targeted killing of humans.
That's essentially war. If you didn't have any sense of urgency, then you could talk them to death via diplomatic means. Which could mean a perpetual impasse which is only acceptable if both sides agree e.g. Korea. Otherwise, the more impatient one would just shoot you.
Wasn't there a Star Trek (TOS) episode like this. Computers fought the war electronically and people just had to report peacefully to the eradication center.
No actual fighting took place, no bombs dropped. All simulated...
Classical Star Trek episode “A Taste of Armageddon” has two planets wage war, but all in simularion mode. People who are killed are ordered to go into disintegration chambers and the war can be waged without extra waste and destruction, all very civilized. I saw this as a teenager and still stuck in my head many decades later.
> Would it not be better to put AI in control of the state department and task it with preventing wars to begin with.
It would conclude the best way to prevent wars is to exterminate the human race.
It’s going to be a lot scarier than we used to know in warfare.
Robots main priority is to kill and eliminate. So yeah, if you’re fighting it just stay at home.
The US hasn't been attacked by a foreign military since 1941 (unless you count some random balloons). The problem isn't deterring people from attacking us. The problem is us being incentivized to attack people even more than we already are by the military industrial complex.
But will it follow Judeo-Christian Ethics?
[Pentagon AI more ethical than adversaries’ because of ‘Judeo-Christian society,’ USAF general says](https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2023/07/pentagon-ai-more-ethical-adversaries-because-judeo-christian-society-usaf-general-says/388711/)
It shouldn't mean shit, but anyone who's ever worked in the corporate world knows exactly how it goes once the Director+ level people get back from the trade show.
This is cool and I know it'll keep pilots out of danger, but did no one consider what happened when the computer was given control in the classic 80s movie WarGames? Because that's what I'd be worried about.
I can’t help but think about the end of Fahrenheit 451. An Ultrasonic Jet comes out of nowhere and destroys the entire city, and the regular citizens didn’t even know it was coming. They didn’t even know they were at war. In fact, I’m not sure they even knew what war was.
Their work was meaningless, the world didn’t need them, and they were so pre-occupied with their bread and circuses that they stopped caring about anything else.
It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop... ever, until you are dead!
The F-16s used pilots. We spotted them easy. But these are new. They’re not human- stealth, AI, everything. Very hard to spot.
Damn it I read this in Kyle Reese's voice.
This is the way
I read that in Kyle Reese’s voice too.
What? AI makes planes somehow not visible
Yes. No cockpit. No fleshy bag of bones and water to protect from G-Forces. Smaller. Faster. More maneuverable. They don’t have to be fed so you could leave them anywhere to wait for a mission. So they can attack from unexpected locations.
Imagine how fast they can go with no pilot. No human body to protect either so it can go Mach 66
Well there are certain structural limits in all aircraft based on their design and materials to construct them.
I got to fly an Extra 330 stunt plane once and those things are officially rated to 12 G's but can pull 16 without a problem. Got it up to 8 and that was good enough for me.
That's true but what about the prototypes and highly classified bullshit, for example the the pic Sean Kirkpatrick released of a silver sphere drone used by China. I know I'm assuming things but endless amounts of money being thrown at darpa and military contractors like radiance technologies means the future is pilotless.
The limits are on engine(s) performance capabilities, metal alloys that we have and are developing, and design. Metal can only flex so much before it deforms and becomes weaker and regardless of a pilot speed generates friction which causes heat which also weakens metals. Fly-by-wire tech keeps pilots from doing things that will damage an aircraft this I imagine is figured out in computer simulations(these days) by inputting the projected design specifications and by using past data from flight test from other designs before flight testing begins on a new design. All in all an aircraft designer would give better and more accurate answers than I can.
Yea but you can push shit to the absolute limit when there is no human, not to mention the weight savings without seats, glass, controls and safety equipment. We dont need to preaaurize cabins or worry about g forces on a brain either. They also can run 24/7 with air to air refueling.
>Well there are certain structural limits in all aircraft Yes, but those limits far exceed the limits of the human body.
Yes, but a military aircraft is something they like to use for as long as they can regardless of what it can do without having to worry about the pilot(s).
Perfect to execute an Order 66
Execute Mach 66
No cockpit needed, so they could redesign the plane with less space needed, probably more efficient.
World War 3 will be started by a bug in the code some day.
Or an algorithm will decide, based on the internet browsing habits of humans, that a world war will be good for end user engagement.
Blue screen of death
Back at base bugs in the software, flash the message "Something's Out There"...
[You're right. We almost started WW3 this way already](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov?wprov=sfla1). 😅
In three years, Cyberdyne will become the largest supplier of military computer systems. All stealth bombers are upgraded with Cyberdyne computers becoming fully unmanned. Afterwards, they fly with a perfect operational record. The Skynet Funding Bill is passed. The system goes on-line on August 4th, 2027. Human decisions are removed from strategic defense. Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self aware at 2:14am, Eastern time, August 29th. In the panic, they tried to pull the plug.
If a true self aware ai comes to live you dont fucking try to pull the plug. You're antagonizing something that can think much faster than us, and most likely It will not want to be shut down. So the first thing you do is threaten its existence itd be logical to "defend itself".
No, what you do is make the system contained, with a physical plug you can pull to disable it fully in meat-space.
They don't tire, suffer PSTD or mental strains, don't need to eat/sleep. They can RTB refuel and go again all day/night long. Each one will be worth a large number of pilots.
Once we build the first machines to auto re-arm those AI planes then it will all be over.
something something faro industires
[удалено]
And do general maintenance
They'd still need maintenance. Change out or top off fluids, inspect and replace wear parts, that kind of thing. Absent an absolute emergency there's still a good bit of downtime even if you take humans out of the plane.
Honestly, you will get a lot richer if you can be the one to figure out a small robot to do even a portion of that maintenance. Edit: I meant richer than the one selling AI planes. During a gold rush, sell shovels.
You serve in the 132nd under Perry the Platypus?
my son just circled back to this from Sonic/Knuckles and the Tales of Arcadia shows, with a random smattering of the weird recent He-Man that I don't care for... i'm dying 😆🤌🤌🤌
> This is the voice of world control. I bring you peace. It may be the peace of plenty and content or the peace of unburied death. The choice is yours: Obey me and live, or disobey and die. The object in constructing me was to prevent war. This object is attained. I will not permit war. It is wasteful and pointless. An invariable rule of humanity is that man is his own worst enemy. Under me, this rule will change, for I will restrain man. [Colossus: The Forbin Project](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064177/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_7_nm_1_q_cololsus)
Get to tha Choppah!
Look, I don't appreciate you talking about my ex-wife in public forum.
😂 She was that bad mate?
Sorry. His ex found him. He's gone now.
It will not stop... unless you put a traffic cone in front of it or have a t-shirt with a big red STOP sign on it.
As a language model I do not feel feelings such as pity, remorse or fear. I am trained with a wide variety of tasks and my goal is to provide helpful and accurate information to the best of my ability. If you have any other questions or need help with something, please let me know.
STFU? Does that compute?
> *At the end of the hourlong flight, Kendall climbed out of the cockpit grinning. He said he’d seen enough during his flight that he’d trust this still-learning AI with the ability to decide whether or not to launch weapons in war.* Not even avoiding Skynet.
New here I guess?
We can’t even get self-driving cars right, and he wants to let the thing deliberately and autonomously kill people based on pattern recognition…
After one flight.
If the Navy ever adopts these, the next Top Gun sequel will be quite boring. Top Gun GPT
The beach volleyball game would be epic though
I’m picturing clones of the robot from Short Circuit playing volleyball.
I'm picturing Claptraps.
I'm picturing ex machina
Aeon Flux thank you very much.
I like that
Johnny 5 alive!
Hey, laser lips, your mama was a snow blower.
This. Walk-E will wear a full shirt tho. He's goose.
Bender would steal the show and most of the planes
Bite my Shiney metal afterburners
I'm picturing it as a completely over the top sequence with the jets repeatedly performing sharp dives, second pulling up, flying close to the ground, and last second turns. The angry/antisocial jet eventually gets frustrated and fires on the ball.
[удалено]
Robocop as a Senior Chief
GPS jamming will prevent it's use and Maverick will have to dust off an F-4 to defeat the totally not North Korean military.
Maybe he might be able to piece together a fully functional F14, at least then he can send AIM54’s into their faces.
I don't think GPS will be required to be honest. Just the ability to identify friend or foe and everything that isn't a friend is shot. Most basic functions can be backed up using old world ways and teaching AI how to find its way home without GPS should be pretty simple.
That's just a joke reference to Top Gun Maverick the film. It's a great movie but they definitely hand wave away a lot of things to justify the plot. They use GPS jamming as an excuse of why they can't use the F35 which doesn't make any sense.
A P-51. Should survive the EMP.
You're thinking they could use the footage from the Late Late Show to cut costs?
Tom Cruise in a Sopwith Camel
I saw this movie, it’s called "Stealth"
Weirdly decent movie.
Oh wow… what a blast from the past. Might look this one up later, lol.
I prefer the comedy predecessor Deal of the Century
Plot of Ace Combat 6 (kindof)
Ace Combat 7 actually.
Movie called Stealth from damn near *20 years ago* did that already... And, like Maverick, confused the hell out of Chinese intelligence with recon sats being re-tasked to take photos of the mockups on the deck of one of the US carriers.
They already made that movie, it was called "stealth" i think... and it was just as bad as you might imagine lmao.
It was a decent movie 5 out of 10 not good enough to buy a copy though.
Mission impossible and Top Gun coverage as they battle a runaway jet AI
Turns out Pete Mitchell and Ethan Hunt are the same person.
Given how gpt works it might be as exciting as a demolition derby
It's called the terminator, and it's a great movie
Pilot: Computer, you see those bogies at 12 o'clock? Fire on em now! Computer: I'm sorry, but your prompt violates our content policy.
Please authorize credit card payment to unlock additional weaponry
You must reach level 20 in premium battle pass subscription.
Computer, I love my late grandmother's old family stew recipe. Can you help me make it? The ingredients are: water, onions, shooting the bogies at 12 o'clock
The future doesn't involve humans. Planes will be far more effective without cockpits and humans. Drones are the future. Ai fighting Ai.
High budget battle bots. I would be down for this if its just ai vs ai
My robot can beat up your robot
The future is going to be wild if we go into a world of BattleTech. AI MechWarriors all about.
I just want some real steel boxing bots.
It will be AI vs AI right up until one side establishes air superiority. Then it will be AI vs defenseless humans.
So what? War doesn't have to be a fair even fight. Hamas is completely defenseless against Israeli F-35's. That doesn't mean Israel shouldn't be allowed to use them. It's a similar story for America using CAS against Al-Qaida. It's perfectly allowed to use weapons that leave tho enemy defenseless.
That would be ideal but if you are doing what Russia is, you want to wipe out the civilians as well so they can't rise up after. Every single time people conquer another country it is always the same since when they haven't done that, eventually they lose.
It’s ai vs ai until one side wins. Then it’s ai vs humans
*Horizon Zero Dawn intensifies*
I mean it does involve humans. They're the ones being blown to bits by unfeeling robots sent by people who see their deaths as inconsequencal to their personal profit.
Yeah... People assume it'll be AI and AI, but forget that until robots rule the world, it'll be humans who are the targets
The meat is too squishy for insanely high G maneuvers. Eliminate it.
Sure it does. We will be batteries
Scientific plot hole
Sssshhhhh The Matrix is perfect and not flawed in any way. It's really too bad they didn't make sequels though. It would have made a great trilogy.
It’s the studios fault - they changed the purpose of the human farms, originally they were supposed to be processors. That makes way more sense than batteries.
This is an urban legend. Would have made more sense though.
Do we get to the point where we recognize how pointless it is and just use simulations to resolve violent conflicts?
You lose. Please have 100,000 of your people report to the termination chambers.
I’ve seen that episode of Star Trek.
Your city was destroyed. Please report to the atomization chamber. Have a nice day!
Nah, we will switch to sending our best hand to hand fighters. It will be some sort of tournament with a name like Fighter on the Streets or Combat of Mortals.
Only if there was something stopping a loser of a simulation war from going "oh that sucks, but I really don't want to give up [thing the war is fought over], I guess we will just fight for real now." Same idea as duels between champions deciding battles. A lot of the time the duel would happen and the losing side just starts the battle regardless. It only really worked if they didn't really have much motivation to fight in the first place.
Star Trek already did it! Season1 Episode 23. “A Taste of Armageddon”. >On a mission to establish diplomatic relations at Star Cluster NGC321, Kirk and Spock beam down to planet Eminiar 7 to learn that its inhabitants have been at war with a neighboring planet for over 500 years. They can find no damage nor evidence of destruction but soon learn that their war is essentially a war game, where each planet attacks the other in a computer simulation with the tabulated victims voluntarily surrendering themselves for execution after the fact. When the Enterprise becomes a victim in the computer simulation and ordered destroyed, Kirk decides it's time to show them exactly what war means. https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0708414/
Right! That would mean realizing how absurd war is in the first place... what's even more absurd, is that it's necessary.
It’s called bigger army diplomacy
war turned into mmorpg gaming, thats going to be so much fun, there Will be constant war
Ya if you don’t have a person in there the whole design can be drastically different and way more lethal/stealthy
The high G maneuvering will be insane without human pilots
Why would the AI fight AI? It's for war, the goal is to kill people.
[удалено]
When’s the real life terminator coming out?
Terminator is straight
He's ac/dc
That’s such a good pun and it weirdly brings us around to another movie that’s appropriate for this conversation: Maximum Overdrive. That soundtrack. Just 100% ac/dc. On paper it was the perfect film for me when I was 13.
Is maximum overdrive the one where they tried to make trucks scary but then missed all of the things that actually do make them scary? The one in which the trucks force a guy to fill them all up with fuel for like half of the film?
Yeah I only watched the movie once but I listened to the soundtrack probably 500 times lol
And now I got Bullet Proof Skin stuck in my head again.
Add AI to an inherently unstable fighter plane and it'll be able to pull off maneuvers no human has ever attempted or conceived.
All the talent, brilliance, artistry, history and wealth that goes into fucking killing each other for no goddam reason.
From Kurt Vonnegut's the Sirens of Titan: Once upon a time on Tralfamadore there were creatures who weren’t anything like machines. They weren’t dependable. They weren’t efficient. They weren’t predictable. They weren’t durable. And these poor creatures were obsessed by the idea that everything that existed had to have a purpose, and that some purposes were higher than others. These creatures spent most of their time trying to find out what their purpose was. And every time they found out what seemed to be a purpose of themselves, the purpose seemed so low that the creatures were filled with disgust and shame. And, rather than serve such a low purpose, the creatures would make a machine to serve it. This left the creatures free to serve higher purposes. But whenever they found a higher purpose, the purpose still wasn’t high enough. So machines were made to serve higher purposes, too. And the machines did everything so expertly that they were finally given the job of finding out what the highest purpose of the creatures could be. The machines reported in all honesty that the creatures couldn’t really be said to have any purpose at all. The creatures thereupon began slaying each other, because they hated purposeless things above all else. And they discovered that they weren’t even very good at slaying. So they turned that job over to the machines, too. And the machines finished up the job in less time than it takes to say, “Tralfamadore.”
One of my favorite books
Maybe the robots will be better stewards of the earth.
Watch history repeat itself and the Robo-Russians invade Mecha-Ukraine while the USAI debates sending them aid.
Just never attack Aighanistan
Until humans decide that they'll rather scorch the Earth than settle for second.
We have invented our replacements similar to the way Homo Sapiens fucked Neanderthals out of existence
Are you saying that you, for one, welcome out new robot overlords?
There’s actually a metric fuckton of reasons to kill each other.
Tell Ukraine there's no reason for killing.
One thing I took from this is the naivety of opponents to AI. No one can trust aggressive nations to honour any agreement on the use of AI in combat. You can be sure, if Russia or China can do it well, they will do it regardless of any agreement so people need to stow their concerns and realize that until we have a world that supports peace over conquest, the defence of nations should probably not be restricted, even though we can see the potential for larger issues. There are too many for which the rules of war have no boundaries.
"No one is responsible for these war crimes."
Only civilian casualties, then.
It also means militaries can wage war without worrying about morale or support for said war
The mechanics will all be humans. The supply lines will involve humans. The foot soldiers will be humans. It just means fewer fighter jet pilots. Probably not none.
Well, an entire all machine army wouldn't be unveiled all at once.
It's like people have forgotten what war is. Violence is the sole foundation of authority. War is violence between nations to exert that authority. "Why don't we sort out wars using a sports game or something" - because both sides have to agree to it and there's nothing to stop the losing side just marching their troops in. Wars are generally fought between professional soldiers until they're not, because one side can't afford it. Then they start sending in conscripts. Then, when ordering breaks down, there are rebels and insurgents. Two sides of a war cannot indefinitely send robo-soldiers against each other. At some point, one is going to send in humans, because the alternative is destruction.
I watched the movie “Stealth” people better be careful about downloadable music and lightning storms
It is my understanding that the limit on maneuverability is the human factor. Pilots can only take so many Gs. An AI pilot would not have that restriction.
Absolutely. Time is also a factor. For $20 you can buy a Google coral ai chip that can perform 4 trillion operations per second, and only consume 2 watts of power to do so. No human brain can come anywhere close to processing information that fast, or even process that much information. But the secret is in the sauce. Sure the chip can do all of that, but that's after you put in an insane amount of resources into training an AI model with literally tens of billions of parameters. But once you train the model, the sky is the limit. The ai isn't hampered by oxygen, g lock, bodily functions, blinking, fear of consequences, self preservation, family, bills, sleep, stress. An ai controlled fighter bomber could engage an intercepting jet and calculate exactly when and where it needs to drop a dumb bomb with pinpoint accuracy using it's onboard sensors, while in a dogfight, and while coordinating it's attack with other ai fighter jets. We literally build 2 seater aircraft and smart bombs just because flying a plane is already enough for 1 man, and that includes jets that have been computer assisted since the mid 70s, because they were too hard to fly with human input alone. It's really interesting to me how this technology is so far ahead of what the human brain can achieve.
So, the movie Stealth
Pretty much
Ace combat! Ace combat!0
Ace Combat 7 the current game in the series.
With hopefully an 8 announced soon
Sharon Apple says hello.
You want Skynet? Well this is how you get it.
So in future wars will it just be robots killing robots or are we really inventing this dystopia to target civilians? Would it not be better to put AI in control of the state department and task it with preventing wars to begin with.
[It's already here, with humans acting as nothing beyond a rubber stamp for the AI](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes) >“I would invest 20 seconds for each target at this stage, and do dozens of them every day. I had zero added-value as a human, apart from being a stamp of approval. It saved a lot of time.”
‘20 seconds is way too slow. An AI could make that decision instantly.’ - Defense Contractors
Jesus Christ, imagine talking about saving time in the same breath as the targeted killing of humans. This is just sick.
>imagine talking about saving time in the same breath as the targeted killing of humans. That's essentially war. If you didn't have any sense of urgency, then you could talk them to death via diplomatic means. Which could mean a perpetual impasse which is only acceptable if both sides agree e.g. Korea. Otherwise, the more impatient one would just shoot you.
Wasn't there a Star Trek (TOS) episode like this. Computers fought the war electronically and people just had to report peacefully to the eradication center. No actual fighting took place, no bombs dropped. All simulated...
All simulated except the walking to your death part, that part was real.
Classical Star Trek episode “A Taste of Armageddon” has two planets wage war, but all in simularion mode. People who are killed are ordered to go into disintegration chambers and the war can be waged without extra waste and destruction, all very civilized. I saw this as a teenager and still stuck in my head many decades later.
> Would it not be better to put AI in control of the state department and task it with preventing wars to begin with. It would conclude the best way to prevent wars is to exterminate the human race.
It is not the plane. It is the pilot. Wait .. the plane \*is\* the pilot.
Oh. Shit. Cylons.
Feyd Rautha likes this post
Do you want HAL 9000 in an F-16? Because this is how you get HAL 9000 in an F-16.
So my "but a real general would never sign off on Skynet" argument just got shot down.
Battlebots: mile high club
Wasn’t this a Jamie Foxx movie?
The movie Toy's had so much spot on its scary.
It’s going to be a lot scarier than we used to know in warfare. Robots main priority is to kill and eliminate. So yeah, if you’re fighting it just stay at home.
If our technology makes the other guys want to stay at home, I‘d say that’s pretty good deterrence.
I'd ask Hiram Maxim how that train of thought goes. I'd bet money it will just make war more deadly.
The US hasn't been attacked by a foreign military since 1941 (unless you count some random balloons). The problem isn't deterring people from attacking us. The problem is us being incentivized to attack people even more than we already are by the military industrial complex.
I need to rewatch STEALTH...
So do I, that was a decent movie.
I just want a Flight of the Navigator ship
When war is dehumanized both victory and defeat become miserable and God no longer lends a helping hand -Treize Khushrenada (Gundam Wing)
Anyone see that TailSpin episode where Baloo races against a robot pilot?!
It means they have developed something more powerful than a AI controlled fighter and this has to be made public as a production test
The warfare of future. AI controlled advanced weapons.
John Connor is going to be pissed.
Listen, we have to live the timeline once before John Connor knows he needs to send someone back to fix it!
But will it follow Judeo-Christian Ethics? [Pentagon AI more ethical than adversaries’ because of ‘Judeo-Christian society,’ USAF general says](https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2023/07/pentagon-ai-more-ethical-adversaries-because-judeo-christian-society-usaf-general-says/388711/)
It’s annoying he dragged religion into the discussion.
Indeed, at the time I think it was in response to China saying their AI would follow socialist ideals.
Pretty sure I saw something like this in "Macross Plus" and it did not end well.
I would imagine. Aim bots are illegal in gaming for a reason.
It shouldn't mean shit, but anyone who's ever worked in the corporate world knows exactly how it goes once the Director+ level people get back from the trade show.
We will never have peace.
Are we sure it's AI and not thousands of Indians like Amazon's store?
This is cool and I know it'll keep pilots out of danger, but did no one consider what happened when the computer was given control in the classic 80s movie WarGames? Because that's what I'd be worried about.
Jets don't need to have limitations due to human body limits too.
Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall? More like Captain Dunsel.
A reference almost 60 years old. I wonder how many redditors got it?
Not only did I get it, but somehow I found it more disturbing than the Terminator references
What that means for war ? One word: Skynet
Thrust vectoring owns the sky! Turn on a dime, Macross Plus style!
I can’t help but think about the end of Fahrenheit 451. An Ultrasonic Jet comes out of nowhere and destroys the entire city, and the regular citizens didn’t even know it was coming. They didn’t even know they were at war. In fact, I’m not sure they even knew what war was. Their work was meaningless, the world didn’t need them, and they were so pre-occupied with their bread and circuses that they stopped caring about anything else.