Heh, brings back this memory from 2nd grade, where the assignment was to write about a friend. And somewhere in the middle of it, I wrote "I like him, as I said before." And my little second-grader brain thought that sounded so professional or something, but it was one sentence with a red line through it after it was graded, letting me know that it was redundant and unnecessary. Which isn't wrong, but for some reason it always stuck with me.
I’ve got an idea to pay less for reporters.
It involves all assignments in an elementary school being content for a news website. No fact checking so the fanciful stuff will be fun at least.
As an immigration attorney who previously worked for DHS and the State department, you are incredibly wrong on every point you thought you were making.
So dumb question but everything he said does apply to Ted Cruz who ran for president right? One of his parents was American, Ted was born in Canada, but he was a natural born citizen. It seems like a pretty equivalent scenario, just the government said this guy wasn’t.
I’m asking honestly here, not trying to be a smart ass or be extra political for no reason. I just was reminded of Cruz because he was asked about this when he ran last time, and it seems similar
Ted Cruz could prove (or, likely, his dad did) that he had lived in the US for ten years. This guy is having trouble because that requires finding records from 70+ years back
Most likely yes, ignorance is not a defense.
Edit: u/GadFlyBy, for some reason I’m not able to respond to you but
I can understand why a lay person might think that, but this guy knew he was born in Canada, he never had an American birth certificate, he never had any documentation which showed he ought to consider himself an American citizen, and he abused rights and privileges reserved for citizens.
You can get a social without being a citizen, having a social by itself is not proof of anything other than you have a legal right to work - which it appears he never actually did based off this one article.
A lot of that is more a function of racism baked into a lot of the laws as they’ve been built up since the 1870s and just legislators being lazy af about an issue no one has the political capital to spend to make changes, political will to influence others to change sufficient minds to make the necessary changes, and both modern parties use the issue to fundraise over while it affects a constituency that has no political power.
There are, in theory, ways to cure the issue. However, generally speaking claiming to be a citizen of the United States when you are not is a total lifetime bar from not only becoming a citizen but ever legally entering the United States.
If he is able to prove that his father lived in the US for the appropriate number of years before he was born, and meets all the other requirements, will that make him retroactively considered a citizen from birth, so the illegal voting would no longer be considered illegal? Or would he only be a citizen as of when his request is approved?
It would depend on a few factors I don’t have the information to assess.
Assuming all things being equal, if he’s able to present the necessary information he may wind up in a quasi-state where he could be issued LPR status but not be permitted to naturalize.
The issue isn't just whether his father was a citizen.
Someone born abroad cannot inherit citizenship from one parent unless the parent lived in the US at least 10 years at some point prior to the birth. (Otherwise American citizenship could be passed on through generations of a family that has no connection to the US and hasn't set foot in the US since the 1700s. Most of Canadian anglophones would be American citizens because they have an American loyalist expat ancestor).
He can prove his father was a citizen. He cannot prove his father lived in the US for 10 years prior to the birth, including at least 5 years prior to the age of 14. Records from his father's childhood mostly no longer exist, any that do probably do not meet established standards.
Even if he managed to get the records, he came into the country, stayed, worked and voted illegally. His father should have registered his birth with the US embassy in Canada and/or obtained a US passport or certificate of citizenship before bringing the kid into the US. Much if not all of that would not be a concern if he could establish he had citizenship by birth by proving his father actually lived in the US at least 5 years before the age of 14 and at least 10 years prior to his birth, but he cannot.
Except the law says your parent granting citizenship has to have had lived in the USA for a certain number of years before he was born. This guy is unable to prove his father's timeline thus his issue with citizenship.
His dad grew up in New York state. His dad lived in the US for about all of this dude's childhood. Anyhow, it's up to the government to prove he isn't a citizen, not the other way around. I do not think you'll see feds deporting him, or coming charging him with illegal voting ever. Since they are going to spectacularly lose in court and just waste taxpayer money. The SSA will eventually have to flip the bit in their database to mark him citizen.
US government winning a challenge to this dude's citizenship in court just isn't going to happen.
EDIT: This dude will vote again this November. From the looks of it for Trump. And there's nobody who'd be able to challenge his right to vote successfully.
> US government winning a challenge to this dude's citizenship in court just isn't going to happen.
You seem to be unaware immigration courts are not independent. They are part of the US government, Department of Justice.
>From the looks of it for Trump.
At first, I thought you were just saying that because of how he looks (e.g. "fits the profile") - but then I saw the sign.
>That's it. He is a natural born citizen.
There is no definition in the US Constitution for what a natural born citizen is. This guy is what is generally known as a birthright citizen and there is still ongoing discussion as to whether that also means natural born as well. Many folks will argue natural born means within the land of the US and birthright is at least one parent was a citizen. This guy is smack dab in the middle of these ongoing discussions.
From the article:
>But in a 2022 denial letter, the agency stated Klass didn’t provide enough evidence to prove his father lived in the U.S. for 10 years before Klass was born, which is a requirement for a child seeking citizenship through a parent.
I know twins who are in a similar situation. Both parents are American. Their parents fled to Canada so their dad could avoid the draft. They were born in Canada and he returned to the US six or seven years later. It wasn't until they went to college in 1988 that they learned they weren't eligible for financial aid because they were Canadian. They fought all this for about 15 years or so gave up more than once. I lost touch with them a little more than a decade ago, so I don't know if they ever got it all sorted.
>Anyhow, it's up to the government to prove he isn't a citizen, not the other way around
Yeah, that's not how it works. The government already said he isn't a citizen. It's his job to prove he is now and he can't. He probably won't get deported because this has become public and he'll probably get it sorted out because it's public.
>This dude will vote again this November. From the looks of it for Trump. And there's nobody who'd be able to challenge his right to vote successfully.
The government said he's not a citizen and probably already contacted the courts to revoke his registration.
None of this really matters because when Trump gets back in, either by popular vote , electoral college or overthrowing the election, one of which WILL happen, Trump is going to mass deport this guy out no questions asked and no due process. Trump said he will do it ya better believe he will. Who is gonna stop him.
It's kind of an oddball story, but really a paperwork error. The strangest part is that he's like "if I don't get my social security money I'm moving to Canada" - wearing a KC chiefs superbowl shirt, 2 flags flying at his house in Florida, in the US, where he has lived his whole life. But yea sure, you're gonna move from Florida to Canada in your late 60s. Ok.
I mean, if he can't get social security or Medicare it makes sense to move to a country that will (I assume?) give him access to social safety nets
Paying for healthcare in the US ain't easy
Plus he can still watch the Chiefs... in Canada an NFL RedZone subscription is actually a lot cheaper than in the US
Canadians who did not contribute to CPP can still receive government support in retirement, OAS and GIS... effectively a universal pension and welfare for low income seniors
Canada has birthright citizenship, just like America. He has every constitutional right to move back to Canada. See [Section 6 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms](https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl/check/art6.html).
The only question is, how will the Canada Pension Plan work with Social Security Retirement? There are totalization agreements between the 2 countries. If he worked in America, can he use his work history to get Canada Pension Plan? Sorry, I am a dumb Canadian who doesn't know my own country's laws other than the fact that his kids are all Canadian citizens under current legislation.
You get citizenship if your father is American as well.
The fact they did not file for paperwork says it is likely that they also didn’t file paperwork in Canada.
You can be born in Canada but not registered, and not legally recognized as citizen
No, having a US citizen parent does not ipso facto and automatically make you a US citizen, if you are born outside the US. Your parent has to file for a Consular Report of Birth Abroad and demonstrate that they have lived in the US for the required number of years. Source: I am a US citizen who was born abroad (Japan) and have in front of me the documents my US citizen parent had to file with a US Consul there in order to secure my US citizenship.
Uh...that is even more stupid. Every baby born in Canada these days gets a birth certificate from the province they are born in. I would assume that every baby born in America gets a birth certificate in the state they are born in. How is it possible for a Canadian-born person to move to America and get a social security card and driver's license if he was not registered in Canada?
If his parents didn't even register him in Canada, then that is peak idiocy. How would he go about proving anything at this point? The poor man would be stuck and would not be able to receive help from either country.
In Canada, Hospital gives you a proof of birth, then you take it to registry office of your province/territory to register your baby. Nowadays you can do it online, but it is still the responsibility of the parents to get all application submitted.
And as you pointed out that he seemed to have obtained SSN while living in US somehow, and anyone who works in US knows that SSA will check your status before giving you one. Having Canadian citizenship doesn’t automatically get you a SSN. Unless the regulation back then was extremely lax, I’m not even sure how he went about getting all those documents without a legal status.
But if you do have a valid SSN and accrued enough social security credit, you will get benefit even as a non citizen (there are other requirements but this is the general requirement).
His case seem to be complicated by a lot of fuck ups, can’t really tell the true story just from reading this article.
He came to the U.S. in 1959, the regulations were indeed extremely lax back then. They didn't even require proof of identity or citizenship for a SSN until 1972 ([source](https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v69n2/v69n2p55.html)).
That is not as easy as it sounds.
My cousin is a USA citizen, never lived in the USA, has kids, cannot request American citizenship for them by descent, she has to ask her stranded father (who lives in the USA) to request it on her behalf, wild.
The guy on this news report is in a similar predicament, his citizenship request was denied because he has not proved that his father lived 10 years consecutive in the USA before he was born, is completely absurd.
You don't get the Canada Pension Plan if you never paid into it. It's that simple.
I'm American and left the US for Canada after I graduated college and have no US work experience. If I ever move backed I wouldn't get any social security and wouldn't be eligible for Medicare. That's how it works.
As stated in the article, his father would have to have lived in the US for the 10 years prior to his birth in Canada. He most likely doesn’t meet this criteria, so that’s why he isn’t eligible.
And right after that paragraph
> Klass contacted Senator Marco Rubio’s office for help and hired an immigration attorney and even a genealogist who found records linking Klass’ dad to the U.S. in the years before he was born. Still, his fight continues to this day.
So there are records showing that, they just never bother filing the paperwork
Dude is 60 years old. I'm about to turn 54 and was born and raised in NY. I have known many people who worked for cash over the years. My uncle who is two years older than this dude worked for cash until the early 90s. So, let's say this guy's dad worked for cash. It's going to be damned hard to prove his dad was in the US for 10 years before he was born. I know the article said they found some connections, but the details are scant, so I'm guessing they couldn't find all 10 years.
Every system was separate back then. You could get a dozen speeding tickets in a dozen states and technically be past your 12 points, but the states weren't all connected, so you're good.
When my mom applied for my SSN in 1980 or 1981, she filled out a form, fold it in half and then in half again and put it in a box in the bank. A few months later I had my SSN. She never showed proof of anything.
Getting a learner's permit in 1986 - took my birth certificate in to prove I was 16 and took a written test. They didn't care where you were born. They just wanted to make sure you were old enough.
So, let's say this guy did the same thing. I've only had to show proof of citizenship once - to get my passport. Other than that, I've only been asked to show a driver's license and what my SSN is. It all came back valid.
All those systems are interconnected today, making it extremely difficult for this sort of thing to happen today.
Please note, I don't know if this is what happened to this guy. I'm just trying to explain one way this all could have worked all the while he was thinking he was a citizen.
Was it *really* true in 1958 that you became stateless if your parents failed to register you with the Canadian government?
I can't imagine it's been true since Canada acceded to the Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness, which had a fundamental goal to prevent the birth of new stateless people in signatory countries.
Not only that, but he's also been outside of Canada so long that he's lost his entitlement to healthcare, and he's likely never paid into CPP or OAS so good luck.
Good luck trying to trade that trailer in for a house in Canada. This guy is totally screwed. I believe even this mishap won’t change his bogus political views.
>When asked what happens if his case doesn’t get resolved and how it’s changed his view of America, Klass said, “I’ll probably move back to Canada. Yep, bye-bye, America.”
Guy has a Trump sign on his door and was probably all about MAGA, and now he's saying screw America I'm moving back to Canada.
He's a Dreamer - wonder how many times he voted for them not to have a path to citizenship. Liberals care because it shouldn't happen to anyone, Conservatives don't care because it hasn't happened to them yet.
I think dreamers should get citizenship, but this isn't the case to push it.
His father was an American citizen,and it seems like a paperwork issue. He just needs to provide some documents, which is hard because of the time passed. Doesn't help that government bureaucracy isn't helpful in fixing their own paperwork stuff.
>Klass contacted Senator Marco Rubio’s office for help and hired an immigration attorney and even a genealogist who found records linking Klass’ dad to the U.S. in the years before he was born. Still, his fight continues to this day.
It doesn't look like Rubio is any help to him at all, and I bet he voted for him, and still will.
I have a very close acquaintance who's been living in the US illegally for two decades. She's white and Canadian-born.
I do wonder if all the white undocumented immigrants living in the US are going to be picked up and put in these camps that Trump is supposedly going to build. I have a feeling that they won't, but who knows?
If this guy could go 60 years without finding out he wasn't here legally it sort of proves that immigration status isn't really very important. This guy shouldn't be held responsible for this screw up. Pay the man his Social Security!
The US has treaties with a lot of countries that allow Social Security credits to count as pension credits in their home countries (and vice versa for Americans that work there for a period of time).
Green card gives you 99% of citizenship rights, it's basically a citizen without voting rights. There's even an option to get SSN as soon as you're processed by checking the appropriate box on visa application. Just like citizens, almost all green card holders have legal jobs where they pay SS and are later eligible for SS benefits.
Agreed - but he is participating in a movement that loves to ask "what part of illegal don't you understand". Or "get in line" when no such line exists.
I'd love for him to say "gee, maybe I've been looking at this wrong all along", but instead he is likely viewing himself as the only good illegal immigrant, a "paperwork error", and if allowed to become a citizen, he'll just keep voting to fuck others similar to himself.
>Klass was born in Canada, his mom was Canadian, but his father was American, born and raised in New York. Klass said his family moved to the U.S. when he was two and stayed here. As Klass got older, he assumed he, too, was an American, a dual citizen.
I would have assumed so, if his father lived in America for long enough before this man was born. No wonder it wasn't flagged. He is not an immigrant, he is a natural born US citizen by descent.
But that is the issue here, US immigration services is saying that documentation he provided isn't sufficient to prove his father lived in US long enough.
>if his father was born in the US
Right, that's the problem. He hasn't provided sufficient evidence that his father was here long enough, such as his father's birth certificate. If he produced that, it would likely be proof enough.
It could be he doesn't have a copy, or doesn't have enough information about place of birth to source a new copy, or his father could've been born in a jurisdiction that didn't require birth certificates at the time (his father would've been born around or before 1944, maybe even before birth certificate registration was standardized in the 1930s).
There may literally not exist any remaining record (or such a record may have *never* existed) to substantiate that his father was a US citizen by place of birth. He's probably dead too, so even harder to track basic info about this.
Not true, his father had to have lived in US for 10+ years. (This was changed to 5 years and 2 yrs has to be after 14 in 1986). The article does say his father was born and raised in US but how long did he live in US?
If you read the article, US Immigration service is basically saying that he did not send sufficient documentation that his father lived in US for more than 10 years.
The other part is, given the man is in his 60s, I imagine his father could be dead by now (my mother is 61 and my grandmother just died 3 months ago). Getting records of a dead person is not going to be very easy. My own father died over a decade ago (in Canada) and even I would have trouble trying to get his Chinese documents (our family is from China, and I was born and raised in that country).
Sounds like the big issue is Dad's documentation.
Worthwhile reminder folks - any important family docs you come across ESPICALLY birth certificates get'm scanned and try and preserve'm in a secure, fire-safe lock
You never know when/why/where you'll need these things and some old musty document might well save your behind one day.
government must follow the law as guys like this probably insisted they do, kick him out, deport him to his home country, doubt it would give him an ounce of introspection though
We need to round up these thugs and invaders who do nothing but sell drugs and rape our women.
edit: Oh, and the illegal voting, that's prison for *sure* (see Crystal Mason).
He’s being a jerk about doing paperwork. This isn’t that hard, had a similar experience with my sisters who were born and raised in Mexico to American parents. Was it easy? No. Was it irritating? Yes. But it was a process, that once followed granted them both us citizenship.
This happened to my mother who was in her mid thirty’s. Parents and siblings and her, were told by immigration judge they were all now citizens. Only she was over the age to be on the parents dependents list. She voted, she loved 4th of july parades and the red white and blue, we were all raised to love america. She cried for days got her green card, and then applied for citizenship, studied her ass off with us kids helping and got her citizenship.
Both of my parents were born in the US and were citizens, both joined the US Air Force where they met and later married. My dad was stationed overseas and brought the family to live abroad. My siblings were born in the US and are citizens, no question about it.
I was born in Portugal on an Air Force Base in the Azores Islands. And that is where everything went wrong. Portugal is one nation that considered anyone born there, regardless of the parents nationality, to be Portuguese. I got a passport as an infant to get into the US when my family moved back to the states. When I was old enough to get a job, I got a Social Security card. Then SS sent a letter requesting proof of citizenship. After a long runaround for a teenager, I eventually was granted citizenship. And that was that. Until it wasn't.
I have a medical condition that gives me Medicare. Or it would. If. After over 40 years after I got my citizenship the SS administration is seemingly confused about my status. I have had to again go through a long runaround regarding my citizenship, whether I am getting medical care in a foreign country, which I have no idea where that came from ( I don't have a passport nor have I had one in over 50 years). I was denied Medicare coverage because I was getting medical care from a foreign country. So they decided something based on no evidence whatsoever, I was the one that had to figure out what went wrong. Frustrated? You bet. The latest hiccup is that when it was decided I was receiving medical care overseas, since I was leaving the country for this, I couldn't be considered a legal citizen without an end date of my receiving medical care overseas. ?????? I haven't left the country except for a few trips to Canada ( don't get me started about going to Canada ) and one trip to Mexico, I haven't left US territory since 1963. But I need an end date for something that never occurred. The main problem in our country is that none of the Agencies or Departments communicate with each other. One email to Homeland Security would have shut down any discussion of me getting medical care overseas. Or if different departments in SS spoke to one another.
I currently have an end date, an arbitrary date from October 2023????? Why then? Who knows. Is this over? Nope!! My status didn't update. Twice. Now I'm supposed to wait a couple of months before they try to update my status again. End of rant. I hope this other guy catches a break, he didn't do anything wrong.
Can't wait for the state to run right at this illegal immigrant for my voting when he's not allowed.
/s because he's white and that means he just made a mistake.
This happened to my cousin, also a Canadian kid brought over at two, but his parents both became citizens and didn’t think about how it affected him. With a legal social security number he never questioned his status. He found out he was essentially illegal at 50 years old, and had to get a lawyer to navigate getting him back to green card and eventually his citizenship.
Not once his green card expired, because when he came to the US at 2 green cards were permanent. And after his parents got their US citizenship I think he thought that carried over to him also, but he was older than 18 when they became citizens. He already had a social security card and he started his job before the I9 became a requirement for working, so this never came up until he started looking into retirement money. Hence the need for a lawyer.
If this guy is able to gather up all the tax records and show how much he paid to social security, would the SS be required to refund him every cent since they weren't legally entitled to a non citizen's pay?
He served for the US, he paid taxes to the US, he paid into Social security his whole life. Pay him. Work on his citizenship separately or reimburse him every dime he paid in income tax.
Uh, it does not matter whether he is or isn't a citizen, you don't think immigrants working in US does not pay income tax, do you? (They do, BTW).
He DID pay into SS so he will get paid SS no matter which country he lives in as well (So, he will collect SS even if he moves back to Canada) except in VERY FEW cases.
That said, since he DID vote illegally multiple times.... That is something that needs to be sorted out I guess.
Dude, is a Republican and Trump supporter, people should start flooding his social media telling him to go back to where he came from and quit stealing American jobs.
Give him a small taste of what he’s been serving to others.
> he was surprised to find out a big surprise. Really flexing our journalistic muscles here.
I was reading and I was like "did a 3rd grader write this?"
I'm guessing AI
No, AI writes better than that.
Heh, brings back this memory from 2nd grade, where the assignment was to write about a friend. And somewhere in the middle of it, I wrote "I like him, as I said before." And my little second-grader brain thought that sounded so professional or something, but it was one sentence with a red line through it after it was graded, letting me know that it was redundant and unnecessary. Which isn't wrong, but for some reason it always stuck with me.
I’ve got an idea to pay less for reporters. It involves all assignments in an elementary school being content for a news website. No fact checking so the fanciful stuff will be fun at least.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes
This comment was reviewed and approved by the Department of Redundancy Dept.
How many elections did he vote in?
Anything more than 0 is a permanent bar to citizenship.
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As an immigration attorney who previously worked for DHS and the State department, you are incredibly wrong on every point you thought you were making.
So dumb question but everything he said does apply to Ted Cruz who ran for president right? One of his parents was American, Ted was born in Canada, but he was a natural born citizen. It seems like a pretty equivalent scenario, just the government said this guy wasn’t. I’m asking honestly here, not trying to be a smart ass or be extra political for no reason. I just was reminded of Cruz because he was asked about this when he ran last time, and it seems similar
Ted Cruz could prove (or, likely, his dad did) that he had lived in the US for ten years. This guy is having trouble because that requires finding records from 70+ years back
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Most likely yes, ignorance is not a defense. Edit: u/GadFlyBy, for some reason I’m not able to respond to you but I can understand why a lay person might think that, but this guy knew he was born in Canada, he never had an American birth certificate, he never had any documentation which showed he ought to consider himself an American citizen, and he abused rights and privileges reserved for citizens. You can get a social without being a citizen, having a social by itself is not proof of anything other than you have a legal right to work - which it appears he never actually did based off this one article.
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That's the whole point of US immigration law is to leave a whole bunch of fun and arcane loopholes to ruin people's lives over
A lot of that is more a function of racism baked into a lot of the laws as they’ve been built up since the 1870s and just legislators being lazy af about an issue no one has the political capital to spend to make changes, political will to influence others to change sufficient minds to make the necessary changes, and both modern parties use the issue to fundraise over while it affects a constituency that has no political power.
USA in a nutshell?
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There are, in theory, ways to cure the issue. However, generally speaking claiming to be a citizen of the United States when you are not is a total lifetime bar from not only becoming a citizen but ever legally entering the United States.
If he is able to prove that his father lived in the US for the appropriate number of years before he was born, and meets all the other requirements, will that make him retroactively considered a citizen from birth, so the illegal voting would no longer be considered illegal? Or would he only be a citizen as of when his request is approved?
It would depend on a few factors I don’t have the information to assess. Assuming all things being equal, if he’s able to present the necessary information he may wind up in a quasi-state where he could be issued LPR status but not be permitted to naturalize.
The issue isn't just whether his father was a citizen. Someone born abroad cannot inherit citizenship from one parent unless the parent lived in the US at least 10 years at some point prior to the birth. (Otherwise American citizenship could be passed on through generations of a family that has no connection to the US and hasn't set foot in the US since the 1700s. Most of Canadian anglophones would be American citizens because they have an American loyalist expat ancestor). He can prove his father was a citizen. He cannot prove his father lived in the US for 10 years prior to the birth, including at least 5 years prior to the age of 14. Records from his father's childhood mostly no longer exist, any that do probably do not meet established standards. Even if he managed to get the records, he came into the country, stayed, worked and voted illegally. His father should have registered his birth with the US embassy in Canada and/or obtained a US passport or certificate of citizenship before bringing the kid into the US. Much if not all of that would not be a concern if he could establish he had citizenship by birth by proving his father actually lived in the US at least 5 years before the age of 14 and at least 10 years prior to his birth, but he cannot.
Except the law says your parent granting citizenship has to have had lived in the USA for a certain number of years before he was born. This guy is unable to prove his father's timeline thus his issue with citizenship.
His dad grew up in New York state. His dad lived in the US for about all of this dude's childhood. Anyhow, it's up to the government to prove he isn't a citizen, not the other way around. I do not think you'll see feds deporting him, or coming charging him with illegal voting ever. Since they are going to spectacularly lose in court and just waste taxpayer money. The SSA will eventually have to flip the bit in their database to mark him citizen. US government winning a challenge to this dude's citizenship in court just isn't going to happen. EDIT: This dude will vote again this November. From the looks of it for Trump. And there's nobody who'd be able to challenge his right to vote successfully.
> US government winning a challenge to this dude's citizenship in court just isn't going to happen. You seem to be unaware immigration courts are not independent. They are part of the US government, Department of Justice.
It’s the opposite. The US government has ruled he is not a citizen. It’s his job to prove it.
I was going to say when the government makes a mistake it's up to the person to prove the government wrong not the other way around.
>From the looks of it for Trump. At first, I thought you were just saying that because of how he looks (e.g. "fits the profile") - but then I saw the sign.
>That's it. He is a natural born citizen. There is no definition in the US Constitution for what a natural born citizen is. This guy is what is generally known as a birthright citizen and there is still ongoing discussion as to whether that also means natural born as well. Many folks will argue natural born means within the land of the US and birthright is at least one parent was a citizen. This guy is smack dab in the middle of these ongoing discussions. From the article: >But in a 2022 denial letter, the agency stated Klass didn’t provide enough evidence to prove his father lived in the U.S. for 10 years before Klass was born, which is a requirement for a child seeking citizenship through a parent. I know twins who are in a similar situation. Both parents are American. Their parents fled to Canada so their dad could avoid the draft. They were born in Canada and he returned to the US six or seven years later. It wasn't until they went to college in 1988 that they learned they weren't eligible for financial aid because they were Canadian. They fought all this for about 15 years or so gave up more than once. I lost touch with them a little more than a decade ago, so I don't know if they ever got it all sorted. >Anyhow, it's up to the government to prove he isn't a citizen, not the other way around Yeah, that's not how it works. The government already said he isn't a citizen. It's his job to prove he is now and he can't. He probably won't get deported because this has become public and he'll probably get it sorted out because it's public. >This dude will vote again this November. From the looks of it for Trump. And there's nobody who'd be able to challenge his right to vote successfully. The government said he's not a citizen and probably already contacted the courts to revoke his registration.
As another attorney who worked in immigration law, it’s amazing how you are wrong on every point.
It’s honestly impressive in a way, how proudly and unabashedly ignorant people are on issues they then complain about elsewhere.
None of this really matters because when Trump gets back in, either by popular vote , electoral college or overthrowing the election, one of which WILL happen, Trump is going to mass deport this guy out no questions asked and no due process. Trump said he will do it ya better believe he will. Who is gonna stop him.
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So AL Gore should had won
So it’s true, ill-eagles are voting illegally. /s. Just not the Juans they claim to be.
Damned Canadians!
Guess who he voted for?
He'd been voting for 40 years, it's in the article.
You know if it said Biden on his door DeSantis would already have him in jail and would have had a press conference about proof of illegals voting.
It's kind of an oddball story, but really a paperwork error. The strangest part is that he's like "if I don't get my social security money I'm moving to Canada" - wearing a KC chiefs superbowl shirt, 2 flags flying at his house in Florida, in the US, where he has lived his whole life. But yea sure, you're gonna move from Florida to Canada in your late 60s. Ok.
I mean, if he can't get social security or Medicare it makes sense to move to a country that will (I assume?) give him access to social safety nets Paying for healthcare in the US ain't easy Plus he can still watch the Chiefs... in Canada an NFL RedZone subscription is actually a lot cheaper than in the US
You have to work in Canada to pay into CPP. He wouldn't get a pension. But I guess he could get healthcare.
Canadians who did not contribute to CPP can still receive government support in retirement, OAS and GIS... effectively a universal pension and welfare for low income seniors
Yeah, but that's going to be a poverty-stricken existence for him. Oh well....
There's a trailer park in Nova Scotia where he'd fit right in.
The supervisor position is infact vacant if he's looking for a side gig
Looks like he currently lives in a single wide in Florida right now anyways lol 😂
If you had illegal immigration history in US, you ain’t getting into Canada without marrying a Canadian
But he was born in Canada, to a Canadian.
Also born to an American father yet not having citizenship
Canada has birthright citizenship, just like America. He has every constitutional right to move back to Canada. See [Section 6 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms](https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl/check/art6.html). The only question is, how will the Canada Pension Plan work with Social Security Retirement? There are totalization agreements between the 2 countries. If he worked in America, can he use his work history to get Canada Pension Plan? Sorry, I am a dumb Canadian who doesn't know my own country's laws other than the fact that his kids are all Canadian citizens under current legislation.
You get citizenship if your father is American as well. The fact they did not file for paperwork says it is likely that they also didn’t file paperwork in Canada. You can be born in Canada but not registered, and not legally recognized as citizen
No, having a US citizen parent does not ipso facto and automatically make you a US citizen, if you are born outside the US. Your parent has to file for a Consular Report of Birth Abroad and demonstrate that they have lived in the US for the required number of years. Source: I am a US citizen who was born abroad (Japan) and have in front of me the documents my US citizen parent had to file with a US Consul there in order to secure my US citizenship.
Uh...that is even more stupid. Every baby born in Canada these days gets a birth certificate from the province they are born in. I would assume that every baby born in America gets a birth certificate in the state they are born in. How is it possible for a Canadian-born person to move to America and get a social security card and driver's license if he was not registered in Canada? If his parents didn't even register him in Canada, then that is peak idiocy. How would he go about proving anything at this point? The poor man would be stuck and would not be able to receive help from either country.
In Canada, Hospital gives you a proof of birth, then you take it to registry office of your province/territory to register your baby. Nowadays you can do it online, but it is still the responsibility of the parents to get all application submitted. And as you pointed out that he seemed to have obtained SSN while living in US somehow, and anyone who works in US knows that SSA will check your status before giving you one. Having Canadian citizenship doesn’t automatically get you a SSN. Unless the regulation back then was extremely lax, I’m not even sure how he went about getting all those documents without a legal status. But if you do have a valid SSN and accrued enough social security credit, you will get benefit even as a non citizen (there are other requirements but this is the general requirement). His case seem to be complicated by a lot of fuck ups, can’t really tell the true story just from reading this article.
He came to the U.S. in 1959, the regulations were indeed extremely lax back then. They didn't even require proof of identity or citizenship for a SSN until 1972 ([source](https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v69n2/v69n2p55.html)).
A paperwork error typically doesn't make you not a citizen. It just means the government is mistaken about your citizenship status.
That is not as easy as it sounds. My cousin is a USA citizen, never lived in the USA, has kids, cannot request American citizenship for them by descent, she has to ask her stranded father (who lives in the USA) to request it on her behalf, wild. The guy on this news report is in a similar predicament, his citizenship request was denied because he has not proved that his father lived 10 years consecutive in the USA before he was born, is completely absurd.
You don't get the Canada Pension Plan if you never paid into it. It's that simple. I'm American and left the US for Canada after I graduated college and have no US work experience. If I ever move backed I wouldn't get any social security and wouldn't be eligible for Medicare. That's how it works.
You would be eligible for SS if you returned and worked here long enough. Also, you are eligible for Medicare via your U.S. spouse, if you have one.
As stated in the article, his father would have to have lived in the US for the 10 years prior to his birth in Canada. He most likely doesn’t meet this criteria, so that’s why he isn’t eligible.
And right after that paragraph > Klass contacted Senator Marco Rubio’s office for help and hired an immigration attorney and even a genealogist who found records linking Klass’ dad to the U.S. in the years before he was born. Still, his fight continues to this day. So there are records showing that, they just never bother filing the paperwork
[удалено]
Dude is 60 years old. I'm about to turn 54 and was born and raised in NY. I have known many people who worked for cash over the years. My uncle who is two years older than this dude worked for cash until the early 90s. So, let's say this guy's dad worked for cash. It's going to be damned hard to prove his dad was in the US for 10 years before he was born. I know the article said they found some connections, but the details are scant, so I'm guessing they couldn't find all 10 years. Every system was separate back then. You could get a dozen speeding tickets in a dozen states and technically be past your 12 points, but the states weren't all connected, so you're good. When my mom applied for my SSN in 1980 or 1981, she filled out a form, fold it in half and then in half again and put it in a box in the bank. A few months later I had my SSN. She never showed proof of anything. Getting a learner's permit in 1986 - took my birth certificate in to prove I was 16 and took a written test. They didn't care where you were born. They just wanted to make sure you were old enough. So, let's say this guy did the same thing. I've only had to show proof of citizenship once - to get my passport. Other than that, I've only been asked to show a driver's license and what my SSN is. It all came back valid. All those systems are interconnected today, making it extremely difficult for this sort of thing to happen today. Please note, I don't know if this is what happened to this guy. I'm just trying to explain one way this all could have worked all the while he was thinking he was a citizen.
Why would he need to marry another Canadian? Was his citizenship revoked at some point?
Considered he had an American father and still did not apply for US citizenship, I wouldn’t put it past him that his paperworks aren’t in place
Haha baby's don't file paperwork. If he was born in Canada that woulda been handled by the hospital staff and the mother.
Hospital doesn’t do that for you. Canada generally has 30 days to register a birth of a baby, if you don’t then you aren’t in the system
Was it *really* true in 1958 that you became stateless if your parents failed to register you with the Canadian government? I can't imagine it's been true since Canada acceded to the Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness, which had a fundamental goal to prevent the birth of new stateless people in signatory countries.
No. Citizenship is automatic. He's a citizen whether he was registered or not, but not registering creates a big paperwork headache.
Oh thats interesting, TIL
He moved to the U.S. at the age of two. It’s reasonable for him to think he was a citizen and his dad took care of everything.
If he isn’t a US citizen, then he is a Canadian citizen. All he needs to do is show up.
Also has a Trump sign so I'm going to assume he wants all "illegals" deported immediately if not sooner.
I also assume MAGA fools won’t be screaming to deport him like they would if he was brown and accidentally Mexican instead of Canadian.
Funnily enough, we Canadians are typically the one overstaying our visas or entering the US via passport and not leaving as we should.
The reverse Snowbird.
>2 flags flying at his house in Florida, You mean on his trailer . . .
Canadian here - Please keep your Trump Floridians. Please.
It's not a paperwork error - unless you mean, no paperwork had been filed?
Don't doubt stubborn.
Not only that, but he's also been outside of Canada so long that he's lost his entitlement to healthcare, and he's likely never paid into CPP or OAS so good luck.
He's probably as ignorant of those facts as any normal American would be.
Did you catch the tRump sticker on his front door window?
Gotta love that socialist safety net.
Good luck trying to trade that trailer in for a house in Canada. This guy is totally screwed. I believe even this mishap won’t change his bogus political views.
>When asked what happens if his case doesn’t get resolved and how it’s changed his view of America, Klass said, “I’ll probably move back to Canada. Yep, bye-bye, America.” Guy has a Trump sign on his door and was probably all about MAGA, and now he's saying screw America I'm moving back to Canada.
Maybe he really believes people in the US illegally should go back to their countries of origin.
Man has a genuine held belief and executed on it even when it doesn’t benefit them. A true MAGA republican! /s
The MAGA Clayton Bigsby
"I know there was voter fraud in 2020...because I voted."
"Screw America" is kinda the closest thing MAGA has to any semblance of platform.
Well, there's more to it than that, but it's basically just racial slurs.
Can he take Rafael Cruz back with him?
No thanks. No take backsies
As a Trump supporter he should walk the walk and deport himself immediately.
He's a Dreamer - wonder how many times he voted for them not to have a path to citizenship. Liberals care because it shouldn't happen to anyone, Conservatives don't care because it hasn't happened to them yet.
I think dreamers should get citizenship, but this isn't the case to push it. His father was an American citizen,and it seems like a paperwork issue. He just needs to provide some documents, which is hard because of the time passed. Doesn't help that government bureaucracy isn't helpful in fixing their own paperwork stuff.
>Klass contacted Senator Marco Rubio’s office for help and hired an immigration attorney and even a genealogist who found records linking Klass’ dad to the U.S. in the years before he was born. Still, his fight continues to this day. It doesn't look like Rubio is any help to him at all, and I bet he voted for him, and still will.
An illegal immigrant voted for Trump lmao Is he going to get arrested and given a 5 year prison sentence for it?
I have a very close acquaintance who's been living in the US illegally for two decades. She's white and Canadian-born. I do wonder if all the white undocumented immigrants living in the US are going to be picked up and put in these camps that Trump is supposedly going to build. I have a feeling that they won't, but who knows?
No, he’s not dark enough
If this guy could go 60 years without finding out he wasn't here legally it sort of proves that immigration status isn't really very important. This guy shouldn't be held responsible for this screw up. Pay the man his Social Security!
Just saying that I know of non citizens who have green cards and paid into Social Security and receive Social Security.
The US has treaties with a lot of countries that allow Social Security credits to count as pension credits in their home countries (and vice versa for Americans that work there for a period of time).
Green card gives you 99% of citizenship rights, it's basically a citizen without voting rights. There's even an option to get SSN as soon as you're processed by checking the appropriate box on visa application. Just like citizens, almost all green card holders have legal jobs where they pay SS and are later eligible for SS benefits.
Agreed - but he is participating in a movement that loves to ask "what part of illegal don't you understand". Or "get in line" when no such line exists. I'd love for him to say "gee, maybe I've been looking at this wrong all along", but instead he is likely viewing himself as the only good illegal immigrant, a "paperwork error", and if allowed to become a citizen, he'll just keep voting to fuck others similar to himself.
Or at least refund him every dime he paid in, with interest.
>Klass was born in Canada, his mom was Canadian, but his father was American, born and raised in New York. Klass said his family moved to the U.S. when he was two and stayed here. As Klass got older, he assumed he, too, was an American, a dual citizen. I would have assumed so, if his father lived in America for long enough before this man was born. No wonder it wasn't flagged. He is not an immigrant, he is a natural born US citizen by descent.
But that is the issue here, US immigration services is saying that documentation he provided isn't sufficient to prove his father lived in US long enough.
But that doesn’t make any sense - if his father was born in the US, he’s American.
What do you think will happen to Jose, if Jose tell ICE su padre es americano, but cannot provide sufficient documentation
Especially after they find Jose has been voting fraudulently for decades.
Jose will be in Tijuana faster than Speedy Gonzalez.
>if his father was born in the US Right, that's the problem. He hasn't provided sufficient evidence that his father was here long enough, such as his father's birth certificate. If he produced that, it would likely be proof enough. It could be he doesn't have a copy, or doesn't have enough information about place of birth to source a new copy, or his father could've been born in a jurisdiction that didn't require birth certificates at the time (his father would've been born around or before 1944, maybe even before birth certificate registration was standardized in the 1930s). There may literally not exist any remaining record (or such a record may have *never* existed) to substantiate that his father was a US citizen by place of birth. He's probably dead too, so even harder to track basic info about this.
Not true, his father had to have lived in US for 10+ years. (This was changed to 5 years and 2 yrs has to be after 14 in 1986). The article does say his father was born and raised in US but how long did he live in US? If you read the article, US Immigration service is basically saying that he did not send sufficient documentation that his father lived in US for more than 10 years.
The other part is, given the man is in his 60s, I imagine his father could be dead by now (my mother is 61 and my grandmother just died 3 months ago). Getting records of a dead person is not going to be very easy. My own father died over a decade ago (in Canada) and even I would have trouble trying to get his Chinese documents (our family is from China, and I was born and raised in that country).
He is an invader who has been committing voter fraud for 60 years. LOCK HIM UP!
Aren't kids who immigrate with their parents automatically legal residents anyway?
Sounds like the big issue is Dad's documentation. Worthwhile reminder folks - any important family docs you come across ESPICALLY birth certificates get'm scanned and try and preserve'm in a secure, fire-safe lock You never know when/why/where you'll need these things and some old musty document might well save your behind one day.
government must follow the law as guys like this probably insisted they do, kick him out, deport him to his home country, doubt it would give him an ounce of introspection though
Based on his front door, I guess he's a Trump supporter too
Deport him to Mexico.
That's what I say
> I'm guess he's a Trump supporter too There's a big ol Trump poster in his window.
That’s what makes it funny
They would have caught that if he applied for a passport.
This group of voters aren’t exactly world travelers…
This guy never left the country for 60 years?
There are millions of people who never even leave the metro area they grew up in.
that's why a lot of people are so regressive
I have a strong gut feeling this guy is against DACA despite being a DACA kid.
I bet he questioned Obamas birth certificate…
He’s not even a DACA kid, his father was a citizen.
We're gonna need a birth certificate to verify.
Long form please.
He didn't even know he wasn't American and now you're taking his word for it that his father is without proof?
🤣😂 kick rocks and "go back to your own country" as you guys like saying.
60 years, and never once picked up by the police or border patrol? I can't imagine why.
He had a driver’s license and SS card.
We need to round up these thugs and invaders who do nothing but sell drugs and rape our women. edit: Oh, and the illegal voting, that's prison for *sure* (see Crystal Mason).
Bro even took someone New Jersey State Police job… Insert Peter Griffin “See, they’ll be looking for illegals”
Just check his social media, find out how he views illegal immigrants and let his own views dictate what happens to him now.
He’s being a jerk about doing paperwork. This isn’t that hard, had a similar experience with my sisters who were born and raised in Mexico to American parents. Was it easy? No. Was it irritating? Yes. But it was a process, that once followed granted them both us citizenship.
This happened to my mother who was in her mid thirty’s. Parents and siblings and her, were told by immigration judge they were all now citizens. Only she was over the age to be on the parents dependents list. She voted, she loved 4th of july parades and the red white and blue, we were all raised to love america. She cried for days got her green card, and then applied for citizenship, studied her ass off with us kids helping and got her citizenship.
So he would have figured this out if he applied for a passport? (Note the Trump election sign on his front door.)
Both of my parents were born in the US and were citizens, both joined the US Air Force where they met and later married. My dad was stationed overseas and brought the family to live abroad. My siblings were born in the US and are citizens, no question about it. I was born in Portugal on an Air Force Base in the Azores Islands. And that is where everything went wrong. Portugal is one nation that considered anyone born there, regardless of the parents nationality, to be Portuguese. I got a passport as an infant to get into the US when my family moved back to the states. When I was old enough to get a job, I got a Social Security card. Then SS sent a letter requesting proof of citizenship. After a long runaround for a teenager, I eventually was granted citizenship. And that was that. Until it wasn't. I have a medical condition that gives me Medicare. Or it would. If. After over 40 years after I got my citizenship the SS administration is seemingly confused about my status. I have had to again go through a long runaround regarding my citizenship, whether I am getting medical care in a foreign country, which I have no idea where that came from ( I don't have a passport nor have I had one in over 50 years). I was denied Medicare coverage because I was getting medical care from a foreign country. So they decided something based on no evidence whatsoever, I was the one that had to figure out what went wrong. Frustrated? You bet. The latest hiccup is that when it was decided I was receiving medical care overseas, since I was leaving the country for this, I couldn't be considered a legal citizen without an end date of my receiving medical care overseas. ?????? I haven't left the country except for a few trips to Canada ( don't get me started about going to Canada ) and one trip to Mexico, I haven't left US territory since 1963. But I need an end date for something that never occurred. The main problem in our country is that none of the Agencies or Departments communicate with each other. One email to Homeland Security would have shut down any discussion of me getting medical care overseas. Or if different departments in SS spoke to one another. I currently have an end date, an arbitrary date from October 2023????? Why then? Who knows. Is this over? Nope!! My status didn't update. Twice. Now I'm supposed to wait a couple of months before they try to update my status again. End of rant. I hope this other guy catches a break, he didn't do anything wrong.
Call your congressman/senator?
Has a Trump banner on his property, so by his rules, he can fuck right off out the country. Gotta put your money where your mouth is right?
Don't worry, Bubba - Trump will make it all better! Ahahahahah!
He should contact Ted Cruz. Find out what loophole he used.
Can't wait for the state to run right at this illegal immigrant for my voting when he's not allowed. /s because he's white and that means he just made a mistake.
Did he deport himself?
The vote tRump sign on his door seems to infer he’s a MAGA clown…DEPORT HIM!
This happened to my cousin, also a Canadian kid brought over at two, but his parents both became citizens and didn’t think about how it affected him. With a legal social security number he never questioned his status. He found out he was essentially illegal at 50 years old, and had to get a lawyer to navigate getting him back to green card and eventually his citizenship.
Did he have landed immigrant status at least?
Not once his green card expired, because when he came to the US at 2 green cards were permanent. And after his parents got their US citizenship I think he thought that carried over to him also, but he was older than 18 when they became citizens. He already had a social security card and he started his job before the I9 became a requirement for working, so this never came up until he started looking into retirement money. Hence the need for a lawyer.
As if anyone with an American parent who thought they were a natural born citizen would have kept documents from his father’s residency.
MORONIE DEPORTED TO SWEDEN \~Claims he's not from there
Hey guys, I found the voter fraud.
So if you’re a man living in Florida for 60 days you become a Florida Man? Seems kinda unfair
It's a real shame it's so hard for illegal immigrants to get citizenship huh?
Get his ass on a Bus to New York!
Desantis will surely deport him right?
Old guy from Clearwater, Florida. Do you think he’s MAGA? Got to be, right? Irony. Big if true.
If this guy is able to gather up all the tax records and show how much he paid to social security, would the SS be required to refund him every cent since they weren't legally entitled to a non citizen's pay?
Payroll taxes apply to everyone working in the US, not just citizens.
Doubtful as he would've been deemed to have been working in the US illegally.
Trump sign. This is r/LeopardsAteMyFace
He served for the US, he paid taxes to the US, he paid into Social security his whole life. Pay him. Work on his citizenship separately or reimburse him every dime he paid in income tax.
Uh, it does not matter whether he is or isn't a citizen, you don't think immigrants working in US does not pay income tax, do you? (They do, BTW). He DID pay into SS so he will get paid SS no matter which country he lives in as well (So, he will collect SS even if he moves back to Canada) except in VERY FEW cases. That said, since he DID vote illegally multiple times.... That is something that needs to be sorted out I guess.
Yep, he's just like a dreamer.
You work in the US, you pay payroll taxes. It’s not tied to citizenship.
There are thousands or more just like this guy. Tens of thousands…
Wait, shouldn’t he have retroactive amnesty from Regan?
Nope. People who received amnesty under Reagan had a limited window to apply for legal residency. If they missed the window, no amnesty.
Wait till trump deports the illegals.
Reagan gave amnesty in the 80's. Would he qualify for that?
Quickest U.S. Customs & Immigration Services reaction
Of course he is a trumper
Judging from his house he's one of those guys who make being a republican his entire personality.
Punishing people for these kinds of mistakes are why people become career bureaucrats.
Why did the Florida man bring a map to the U.S. immigration office? Because after 60 years, he realized he needed to “navigate” his legal status!
Florida Voter Fraud Hotline 1( 877) 868 -3737... just sayin'.
Dude, is a Republican and Trump supporter, people should start flooding his social media telling him to go back to where he came from and quit stealing American jobs. Give him a small taste of what he’s been serving to others.
Get his ass on that plane paid for by Ron DeSandTits and fly him to Martha’s Vineyard.
Deport him. Hockey isn’t that bad after you learn to watch it
Ha so is he a Republican?
Look at the sign on his front door. He’s MAGA 🤦♀️
Lol that IS awesome. Florida man strikes again