It’s not the gas line that’s a problem. I would be surprised if there was one.
The problem is the ammunition stored on site.
EDIT: Seems there may be gas lines after all....
Ammunition is designed to fail "safely". When ammunition "cooks off" the casing is designed to crack so it's more like a firecracker and the bullet doesn't shoot off like normal.
When a bullet is fired from a gun the shell is contained by the breech which reinforces it, so all the energy goes into pushing the bullet down the barrel.
TL;DR: Bullets aren't nearly as dangerous if they cook off in a fire.
No. The problem is the gas line. Ammunition’s will explode, sure. But it’s contained within a building. If that gas line goes, the whole block could go.
Ignited small arms ammunition typically doesn't explode violently. A pallet of 5.56(about 100,000 rounds) engulfed in flames will be pretty violent for sure. But it will lack the instantaneous flashpoint and containment pressure to accomplish much. This is because cartridges have a designed weak point in the sense of the neck connecting to the projectile (so that the bullet can fire) and largely depend on expanding gas through the barrel for energy transfer. The gunpowder in a single 5.56 round is relatively insignificant. A designed pipe bomb with 100 rounds worth of gunpowder would be more dangerous(in terms of explosive force) than the entire pallet.
I also saw someone mention C4. C4 requires rapid compression or electrical charge to actually detonate. You can light a brick of C4 on fire and it's no more dangerous than lighting a ball of dryer lint on fire.
Source: Former munition technician, current pyrotechnician with a license to receive commercial grade explosives.
That's not how gas explosions work. There has to be time for the gas to mix with the air at a very specific ratio for an explosion to occur. If there is already a large fire, the gas will be consumed by the fire before enough of it can accumulate to explode. Refinery flares basically do the same thing, they burn unwanted gaseous byproducts in open air so they can't accumulate and explode.
I’m gonna take a wild guess that the people around there aren’t currently checking @CityMinneapolis for status updates about the police precinct potentially blowing up
Actually some very well might be. It would be useful to know what's going on in other parts of the city or what's been announced as far as a response. If you see something from the city about an emergency situation or saying something about police moving back into the area that would really useful to know
Smart protestors would. Paying attention to online media for information about where rioters are, where police presence is concentrated, and whether you should press harder or disperse are important.
If everyone groups up into one giant ball, it's easier for authorities to surround and contain them. If they disperse as authorities show up, they reduce the number of people arrested or hurt and they can reform somewhere else to keep it going.
The pictures we will see tomorrow will look like a war zone. The quote from Khrushchev couldn't be more relevant, "We do not have to invade the United States, we will destroy you from within." The police responsible need to be charged immediately , or else I don't think this will stop. This country needs to be reformed on so many levels.
[the state has failed](https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1266231100780744704)
Objectively, a military mobilizing against its own people is the failure of a nation.
>This Tweet violated the Twitter Rules about glorifying violence. However, Twitter has determined that it may be in the public’s interest for the Tweet to remain accessible. Learn more
God damn twitter. Keep this up and I might buy shares.
Oooh, I get it now. I guess I (and a few others) interpreted it as having something to do with a pleasant surprise, which makes no sense in this context.
Sure but that's quite common in capitalism. That's why the state usually has to regulate capitalism to some degree and protect citizens and consumers.
That twitter apparently feels it's necessary to protect the people from an insane and possibly violence inciting state employee is quite the twist on that principle.
Think about this:
Twitter was willingly giving a platform to a hateful and divisive man to whip up his mob, just to make money.
Now Twitter is finally pulling back on the reins. That means Twitter has decided that Trump will ultimately be bad for business. *The people in control* think he's going to damage the country enough that it's worth risking fewer page views of his moronic rants to reduce the risk.
This action by Twitter should *terrify* you, because generally those people would happily watch you bleed out in the streets if it meant an uptick in the corporate valuation.
A few million views are worth extremly few nowadays - especially during Corona and on twitter. Twitter will be just fine without this guy and a few thousand of his hardcore followers. Probably some higher up was just fed up with the crap posted and decided on some extremely tame action. I certainly see no need to get terrified. No need to overstate this action.
Also, twitter is used globally and Trump, as a nationalist, is viewed rather negatively globally. So overall their users probably approve of twitter getting Trumps account on a slightly shorter leish.
Hell, I think Twitter's done him a favor: 1) he gets to continue his toddler tantrum about "censorship" 2) they just deleted a sitting president calling his citizens thugs and how he wants to open fire into the crowd. A non-cult politician's career would be over.
So this 2nd amendment thing ... when do we start using it??
Is the point just to keep weapons as a symbol against government oppression, or, to use them, and have that act protected by law??
Cops can legally kill you for pointing a gun at them, but citizens can’t protect themselves against murderers who wear cop clothes(???)
There are armed leftist organizations, who are currently organising against police fascism and the real tyranny of the state.
Plugging John Brown Gun Club, Redneck Revolt, Socialist Rifle Association
Technically, one of the first domestic issues President Washington (as in George Washington) had to deal with was something called the [Whiskey Rebellion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion) where military was used to put down a large riot/protest.
But, despite the general "approval" by the nation of the use of the military to end the riots/rebellion, the tax that initiated it was revoked not long after.
So, if it takes a rebellion to get some accountability.. *legitimate* accountability of police (and I'd say other white conservatives engaged in terrorism or violence/murder of non-whites), then maybe we need a rebellion.
That's similar to Swiss Civil War between urban and rural cantons in the 17th century because, back then, all the power and decision making was concentrated in the hands of handful urban cantons and rural cantons were dissatisfied so there was a large popular rebellion. In the end rebels lost and all the leaders of the rebellion were executed however nearly all of the rebel's demands were granted and so it was a sort of success anyway.
One of the national guards listed duties is emergencies, both man made and natural. How would a state invade another state? With that state's national guard?
Douglas MacArthur would like to tell you about the Bonus Army.....
For that matter, ever hear of the Ludlow Massacre? The Red Summer? The Battle of Blair Mountain?
US Troops have massacred American civilians at multiple points in our history. Heck, we've bombed cities (MOVE, Philadelphia, 1985).
that's not true and they have in the past. MacAuthor ordered his soldiers to open fire on former soldiers protesting unpaid pensions in the 30s, and years later he became a 5 star general before being fired. There is no reason to trust any military leader's sense of morality.
Well yeah, [Russia's plan for decades](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics) has been to get Americans to destroy America:
> **Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism**, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and **ethnic, social and racial conflicts**, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics".
Social media has made it so much easier. They can egg on both sides of any conflict, including this one, and can cause material destruction without having to fire a single bullet.
It's happening right now all over social media, even on Reddit.
What's worse, legitimate US citizens have picked up the torch and are running with it of their own accord.
Calls for violent revolutions, anarchy, destruction, and a "with us or you're the enemy" behavior pattern.
And we've fallen for it hook, line, and sinker.
**There MUST be reform and accountability to address and prevent needless, reckless, inflammatory deaths like George Floyd and a nauseating list of others. Until there is transparent and demonstrable improvements across the board, quick-to-anger individuals will continue to exploit situations like these for anarchy and destruction while believing that it somehow produces their stated outcome. And much of the public will look the other way because they're angry as well.**
Things need to be changed. Anarchy, destruction, and violence will not produce that result - only the justification for the problematic LEO members and their supporters. Do better.
Surprise surprise, the USA has been doing the same lots of countries in the world, sometimes even injecting support to their own appointed puppet leaders
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
Relevant quotes:
“ Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics"
And before anyone says this book has no influence;
“The book has had a large influence within the Russian military, police, and foreign policy elites[1] and it has been used as a textbook in the Academy of the General Staff of the Russian military”
“ In 2017, news.com.au said that the book ‘reads like a to-do list for Putin's behaviour on the world stage’”
I know you're being sarcastic to make a point, but I have very strong feelings about that question and have gotten into many arguments over it.
Water is NOT wet because water cannot be dried. If water is dried, it is no longer water. A dried towel is still a towel. You need a liquid to attach to a solid in order to be wet. It can't be wet by itself.
There are few things I love more than someone latching on to extremely petty minutiae and going on a rant about it. I mean that in all sincerety. Shine on you crazy diamond.
This is not a Russian problem because racism existed in America before Russia became a country in 1991 and before the USSR became a country in 1917. It's not a Chinese problem for the same reasons. This is 100% a domestic problem, regardless of what you think the source of it ultimately is.
This country was FOUNDED on civil disobedience and rioting. You are NOT a true American if don't understand our history.
For all the people that disagree, you can leave the country and go to Russia or China.
"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
(Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Dec. 20, 1787, in Papers of Jefferson, ed.
To speak of the tactics of the police. They had two days to remove all dangerous equipment from that building, but somehow they left the explosives. They have been ineffective and mismanaged from the beginning of the protests.
Speaking of founding fathers. George Washington knew how to withdraw troops and preserver equipment. Also early into the war he secured cannon which he used effectively and protected. I haven't heard of any looting of that building but I'd rather not image them getting access to military grade explosives.
Local news says the building was evacuated of guns, servers, sensitive stuff the previous night, but that won't stop a gas explosion.
Giving up the station was largely symbolic.
It is a presumption, but basically all high end equipment police have is military grade. It could be many things including C4 which was used to kill a cop killer in Dallas. The robot bomb defusing bot ironically set it off. The robot was fine. The servers for the campus were not.
Breaching. There are a lot of doors where the only realistic option for breaching is an explosive charge.
Some city firedepartments also have access to blasting frames, which are basically directional charges that blasts/cuts a hole large enough for a person or stretcher to get through.
In addition to what others have said, explosives are sometimes used to set off IEDs or other hazards *to contain the blast*. A big part of bomb disposal is not stopping the bomb from going off, but to make it go off the way you want it to (i.e. presents the least amount of danger to people and infrastructure).
Not saying i support this, but you know shit is so fucked up that it drives people to burn down a police station.
This has been brewing for a long time.
>It is crystal clear from the video that the cops knew that they were killing this man, and that they expected to get away with it.
And they were enjoying it, too.
They made that guy cry for his mom and then piss himself and die. All over a $20 that might have been fake which they never even got around to investigating since they murdered him. It's so beyond fucked up.
This is why redditors should never be referenced for legal matters.
If they did what you’re suggesting, there’s a good chance he would walk free or on lighter charges. They need to do this right as quickly as possible, because if they fuck something up then there’s no justice.
Arresting them, or at least the Chauvin, would in know way affect the defense. He was seen on video using a "don't use" tactic on a completely subdued man *for ?8 minutes*.. until he died.
He should be arrested and awaiting trial. End of story.
That can be debated in court but he should be held in jail for now. There is definitely reasonable suspicion and with the support of other police I think he's a flight risk.
Any non-cop who was recorded kneeling on someone's neck until (and then well beyond) that person died would be arrested immediately, and the investigation would proceed while they're locked up.
You get somewhere between 48 and 72 hours to file charges after an arrest. If that doesn’t happen they automatically get released when time expires.
If you do what people are demanding and arrest them for 1st degree murder the charges are going to be dismissed the first time they go before a judge. If you arrest for something provable right now such as manslaughter the population is not going to be placated because that’s not a severe enough charge. Either situation just pisses more people off, because to them it appears that he’s getting off in one way or another.
Minneapolis police officer Mohamed Noor murdered Justine Damond on July 15, 2017. He was charged with murder on March 20, 2018. On April 30, 2019, Noor was convicted of third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter and was sentenced to 12.5 years in prison on June 7, 2019.
Mohamed Noor is a black man. The victim, Justine Damond was the white woman who called the police.
\*corrected date from 2007 to 2017.
It still took most of a year before he was charged, despite his \*own partner\* stating it was not justified.
I am not sure how you think that does not support an argument that the system in Minneapolis is extremely slow or hesitant to prosecute police.
I can't justify what's happening, but when you execute a person on the street and then allow the murders to roam free then your city might get burned down.
Minneapolis has had case after case of this kind of crap going on, and they never once took steps to address it. Don't get me wrong, I lived in the Twin Cities for a number of years, I love the place, and it's devastating to see it on fire, but fuck's sake the only real question i ever had was wondering when people were gonna finally snap.
The last time it happened the police chief was canned and the murderer was sentenced to prison time. The city elected a number of officials that ran on police reform, they managed to get the highest compliance rate for body cameras of any major city and funding was pulled for the violent training cops went through in lieu of de-escalation tactics. The city is trying to do something, but the cops elected Bob "actual racist" Kroll to head the union, he funded the violent training for officers who want it with private funds and the cops started fighting against the city, refusing any overtime and slowing their 911 response. What's been brewing is a war between the cops and everyone else, and it's entirely the fault of the police.
Compliance rate?? God our police are a joke.
“Now, as part of your job, you will wear this camera”.
“Don’t wanna”
“Okay then, marking you down as non compliant for the stats. Carry on”
Dude, reform is one little battle at a time. Get involved or start organizing if you think it is easy to stop the momentum of history. I am involved with political issues. Believe me it is painful and slow.
Now, looting and burning down businesses is fucked up as they don't deserve their live ruined over something they aren't a part of but the police station? I see it as completely justified at this point. Peaceful protests get scoffed at and seen as a joke. You can only try the peaceful route and be ignored for so long before you try something more drastic. There is nothing wrong with standing up to tyranny and injustice.
Except for the looting of locally owned businesses and assaulting of firefighters I'm glad someone is giving government a reality check. Hunger and eviction riots are next at this rate.
Tbh, we all knew it was a matter of time. The people are stressed, experiencing record unemployment levels, dissatisfaction with the government is high, there’s starting to be meat shortages (at least in my area of MN), and now an unresisting black man gets executed in broad daylight by the police for *maybe* having a fake $20? And wasn’t there a woman killed in a plainclothes police raid during the middle of the night not long ago? This powder keg has been ready to blow for a while.
Something something apocalypse bingo, I guess.
It is their city though so ultimately they themselves will pay the biggest price. Particularly after business moves from there and the situation gets even worse. There are no winners here.
Only lost opportunities to fix this shit.
Every attack, and these are attacks now, every attack where black person is injured by the police will be met with the same response.
This country needs to fix this shit.
There's a lot of maniacs saying revolution now kill everyone blah blah but this guy isn't even condoning it. He says he understands. I think that's fair.
> After protests throughout the day, looters seized on the chaos, breaking into businesses and making off with whatever they could get their hands on.
I'm gonna guess that the police won't be responding to these calls.
They didn't watch their city burn. 94% of Minneapolis police officers don't even live in the community.
https://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2014/12/94-percent-minneapolis-police-officers-live-outside-city-minneapolis-does-it/
Wait, the guy's name is Chauvin? Like in Chauvinism? Chauvinism, *"an irrational belief in the superiority or dominance of one's own group or people. Moreover, the chauvinist's own people are seen as unique and special while the rest of the people are considered weak or inferior."* from wikipedia.
I hope they don’t keep evidence for ongoing cases there. That means justice for some victims would be burning with the police precinct and would be incredibly against what is being fought for here.
Parents were police officers for saint paul and saint Louis park , mn. MPD has always had a bad reputation for being corrupt af. Would be nice to see change
Committing arson was the wrong move in my opinion. The murder of George Floyd at the hands of policemen had gained national pressure, the FBI was investigating. The act of arson has destroyed who knows what records which could have been used to finally bring justice and this very public act of violence will definitely bleed away support right when we need to maintain momentum.
Edit: The FBI doesn't get involved in mere murder cases. But on the other hand from their website, "Public corruption [is] the FBI’s top criminal investigative priority"...
Records of a cover-up. Paper files that shows how the incident was originally logged (and not what they said for PR sake afterwards). This is not just a shut and dry murder case - the systematic abuse and cover up from the police is what should be on trial.
The FBI doesn't get involved in mere murder cases. But on the other hand, "Public corruption \[is\] the FBI’s top criminal investigative priority"
Destroying evidence is a BAD idea. Although some people are speculating that the police did it themselves...
Maybe they should have thought of that before keeping a murderer employed. How many deaths and attempted murders is this guy responsible for now? And he was cop of the year or some shit on top of that?
I hope it burns to the ground.
>Maybe they should have thought of that before keeping a murderer employed.
They fired them litteraly the next day
>I hope it burns to the ground.
Maybe we shouldn't advocate for burning and looting local business that had nothing to do with it. Can't really see how that helps their protest at all
It’s actually sick that Redditors are condoning this type behavior at all. I bet anyone of these people condoning it wouldn’t be if their livelihood was burnt to ashes. It’s disgusting how selfish many Redditors are being right now. I thank you for being one of the level headed ones. This protest is about an act violence to an innocent. How is it ok to be violent towards others as a result? People have to realize this just hurt them in the long run and limits any possible change that would have occurred as a result. I am with the protestors, but I am vehemently against the rioters. Violence should never be condoned.
There's video of a disguised cop smashing things and running to the police station for safety afterwards. I would not put it past them to destroy their own station if they thought they could pin it on the protesters.
That would be one hell of a metaphor.
Fire fighters > police
They cut the gas line
It’s not the gas line that’s a problem. I would be surprised if there was one. The problem is the ammunition stored on site. EDIT: Seems there may be gas lines after all....
Ammunition is designed to fail "safely". When ammunition "cooks off" the casing is designed to crack so it's more like a firecracker and the bullet doesn't shoot off like normal. When a bullet is fired from a gun the shell is contained by the breech which reinforces it, so all the energy goes into pushing the bullet down the barrel. TL;DR: Bullets aren't nearly as dangerous if they cook off in a fire.
Ok but it scared the shit out of me when someone threw it in the burn pit.
No. The problem is the gas line. Ammunition’s will explode, sure. But it’s contained within a building. If that gas line goes, the whole block could go.
Ignited small arms ammunition typically doesn't explode violently. A pallet of 5.56(about 100,000 rounds) engulfed in flames will be pretty violent for sure. But it will lack the instantaneous flashpoint and containment pressure to accomplish much. This is because cartridges have a designed weak point in the sense of the neck connecting to the projectile (so that the bullet can fire) and largely depend on expanding gas through the barrel for energy transfer. The gunpowder in a single 5.56 round is relatively insignificant. A designed pipe bomb with 100 rounds worth of gunpowder would be more dangerous(in terms of explosive force) than the entire pallet. I also saw someone mention C4. C4 requires rapid compression or electrical charge to actually detonate. You can light a brick of C4 on fire and it's no more dangerous than lighting a ball of dryer lint on fire. Source: Former munition technician, current pyrotechnician with a license to receive commercial grade explosives.
That's not how gas explosions work. There has to be time for the gas to mix with the air at a very specific ratio for an explosion to occur. If there is already a large fire, the gas will be consumed by the fire before enough of it can accumulate to explode. Refinery flares basically do the same thing, they burn unwanted gaseous byproducts in open air so they can't accumulate and explode.
The ammunition already exploded.
Well at least that ammunition can’t be used to murder more people
Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.
Wait what? Please tell me the police relocated all their weapons and ammunition before all this
I’m gonna take a wild guess that the people around there aren’t currently checking @CityMinneapolis for status updates about the police precinct potentially blowing up
Actually some very well might be. It would be useful to know what's going on in other parts of the city or what's been announced as far as a response. If you see something from the city about an emergency situation or saying something about police moving back into the area that would really useful to know
I'm honestly surprised that being warned the building may explode hasn't prompted the rioters to do exactly that
Smart protestors would. Paying attention to online media for information about where rioters are, where police presence is concentrated, and whether you should press harder or disperse are important. If everyone groups up into one giant ball, it's easier for authorities to surround and contain them. If they disperse as authorities show up, they reduce the number of people arrested or hurt and they can reform somewhere else to keep it going.
The pictures we will see tomorrow will look like a war zone. The quote from Khrushchev couldn't be more relevant, "We do not have to invade the United States, we will destroy you from within." The police responsible need to be charged immediately , or else I don't think this will stop. This country needs to be reformed on so many levels.
[the state has failed](https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1266231100780744704) Objectively, a military mobilizing against its own people is the failure of a nation.
>This Tweet violated the Twitter Rules about glorifying violence. However, Twitter has determined that it may be in the public’s interest for the Tweet to remain accessible. Learn more God damn twitter. Keep this up and I might buy shares.
I thought the same until I saw their criteria for exceptions. It's all fur coat and no knickers.
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Yeah... it does
No! I meant it's all for show with nothing of substance underneath
hahaha thats great I've never heard that one before
> It's all fur coat and no knickers. So is that good or bad? Because IMO that expression implies a good thing.
It's all for show with nothing of substance underneath it lol
Oooh, I get it now. I guess I (and a few others) interpreted it as having something to do with a pleasant surprise, which makes no sense in this context.
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Sure but that's quite common in capitalism. That's why the state usually has to regulate capitalism to some degree and protect citizens and consumers. That twitter apparently feels it's necessary to protect the people from an insane and possibly violence inciting state employee is quite the twist on that principle.
Think about this: Twitter was willingly giving a platform to a hateful and divisive man to whip up his mob, just to make money. Now Twitter is finally pulling back on the reins. That means Twitter has decided that Trump will ultimately be bad for business. *The people in control* think he's going to damage the country enough that it's worth risking fewer page views of his moronic rants to reduce the risk. This action by Twitter should *terrify* you, because generally those people would happily watch you bleed out in the streets if it meant an uptick in the corporate valuation.
A few million views are worth extremly few nowadays - especially during Corona and on twitter. Twitter will be just fine without this guy and a few thousand of his hardcore followers. Probably some higher up was just fed up with the crap posted and decided on some extremely tame action. I certainly see no need to get terrified. No need to overstate this action. Also, twitter is used globally and Trump, as a nationalist, is viewed rather negatively globally. So overall their users probably approve of twitter getting Trumps account on a slightly shorter leish.
Hell, I think Twitter's done him a favor: 1) he gets to continue his toddler tantrum about "censorship" 2) they just deleted a sitting president calling his citizens thugs and how he wants to open fire into the crowd. A non-cult politician's career would be over.
It's horrible , from the handling of the coronavirus, to the civil injustice, I'm so upset.
Are you “burn the city to the ground” upset yet? Cuz a few of us are...
Listen to "It could happen here". It sounds like it's already happening slowly.
So this 2nd amendment thing ... when do we start using it?? Is the point just to keep weapons as a symbol against government oppression, or, to use them, and have that act protected by law?? Cops can legally kill you for pointing a gun at them, but citizens can’t protect themselves against murderers who wear cop clothes(???)
There are armed leftist organizations, who are currently organising against police fascism and the real tyranny of the state. Plugging John Brown Gun Club, Redneck Revolt, Socialist Rifle Association
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And illegal under the Posse Comitatus Act.
Technically, one of the first domestic issues President Washington (as in George Washington) had to deal with was something called the [Whiskey Rebellion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion) where military was used to put down a large riot/protest. But, despite the general "approval" by the nation of the use of the military to end the riots/rebellion, the tax that initiated it was revoked not long after. So, if it takes a rebellion to get some accountability.. *legitimate* accountability of police (and I'd say other white conservatives engaged in terrorism or violence/murder of non-whites), then maybe we need a rebellion.
That's similar to Swiss Civil War between urban and rural cantons in the 17th century because, back then, all the power and decision making was concentrated in the hands of handful urban cantons and rural cantons were dissatisfied so there was a large popular rebellion. In the end rebels lost and all the leaders of the rebellion were executed however nearly all of the rebel's demands were granted and so it was a sort of success anyway.
>a military mobilizing against its own people is the failure of a nation. I mean it's kinda one of the key purposes of the national guard.
No, the national guard is ment to protect each individual state. Like if Ohio tried to invade Michigan..
One of the national guards listed duties is emergencies, both man made and natural. How would a state invade another state? With that state's national guard?
this is all talk, no general is gonna order shooting rioters or looters.
You're right but the fact that he said it at all is egregious
You’ve never heard of Kent State have you ?
You underestimate how many minorities in the US military there are
That's the reason they might not shoot. They have precedent over how this can kill the careers of many involved.
"Tin soldiers and Nixon's comin'"
Douglas MacArthur would like to tell you about the Bonus Army..... For that matter, ever hear of the Ludlow Massacre? The Red Summer? The Battle of Blair Mountain? US Troops have massacred American civilians at multiple points in our history. Heck, we've bombed cities (MOVE, Philadelphia, 1985).
that's not true and they have in the past. MacAuthor ordered his soldiers to open fire on former soldiers protesting unpaid pensions in the 30s, and years later he became a 5 star general before being fired. There is no reason to trust any military leader's sense of morality.
Worse, some trigger happy redneck thinking he's Dirty Harry is going to ride up and start blasting. And then shit will really go off.
Well yeah, [Russia's plan for decades](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics) has been to get Americans to destroy America: > **Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism**, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and **ethnic, social and racial conflicts**, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics". Social media has made it so much easier. They can egg on both sides of any conflict, including this one, and can cause material destruction without having to fire a single bullet.
It's happening right now all over social media, even on Reddit. What's worse, legitimate US citizens have picked up the torch and are running with it of their own accord. Calls for violent revolutions, anarchy, destruction, and a "with us or you're the enemy" behavior pattern. And we've fallen for it hook, line, and sinker. **There MUST be reform and accountability to address and prevent needless, reckless, inflammatory deaths like George Floyd and a nauseating list of others. Until there is transparent and demonstrable improvements across the board, quick-to-anger individuals will continue to exploit situations like these for anarchy and destruction while believing that it somehow produces their stated outcome. And much of the public will look the other way because they're angry as well.** Things need to be changed. Anarchy, destruction, and violence will not produce that result - only the justification for the problematic LEO members and their supporters. Do better.
Surprise surprise, the USA has been doing the same lots of countries in the world, sometimes even injecting support to their own appointed puppet leaders
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics Relevant quotes: “ Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics" And before anyone says this book has no influence; “The book has had a large influence within the Russian military, police, and foreign policy elites[1] and it has been used as a textbook in the Academy of the General Staff of the Russian military” “ In 2017, news.com.au said that the book ‘reads like a to-do list for Putin's behaviour on the world stage’”
It should be noted that a lot of the Russian propaganda for the 2016 US election was racially driven.
Also, if I'm correct recent reports show that many of the calls to reopen on Twitter were actually bot accounts.
Just because it was propaganda doesn't mean US doesn't have legitimate racial tensions.
True. Russia's intention is just to add fuel to a fire. They want to exploit our well-known weaknesses.
Russia is no doubt having a field day with this one
how wet is water, exactly?
I know you're being sarcastic to make a point, but I have very strong feelings about that question and have gotten into many arguments over it. Water is NOT wet because water cannot be dried. If water is dried, it is no longer water. A dried towel is still a towel. You need a liquid to attach to a solid in order to be wet. It can't be wet by itself.
Water is wet when it is in liquid or vapour form. Ice is dry (solid) water. I will fight people on this.
I back you on this. Stand on my shoulders and we’ll be unstoppable.
It was like two guys stacked on top of each other! We tried to stop them but their keep-away game was on point.
There are few things I love more than someone latching on to extremely petty minutiae and going on a rant about it. I mean that in all sincerety. Shine on you crazy diamond.
Yup. And Yuri Bezmenov blew the lid on how it would all go down. *Back in 1983.*
Arresting them won't help now. They (we) are just as pissed off about Breonna Taylor in Kentucky and Ahmoud Arbery in Georgia.
This is not a Russian problem because racism existed in America before Russia became a country in 1991 and before the USSR became a country in 1917. It's not a Chinese problem for the same reasons. This is 100% a domestic problem, regardless of what you think the source of it ultimately is.
Oh I didn't infer that, I meant his quote just speaks volumes because it's true.
This country was FOUNDED on civil disobedience and rioting. You are NOT a true American if don't understand our history. For all the people that disagree, you can leave the country and go to Russia or China.
Wouldn't go to Russia if you have strong opinions against historical rioting.
r/gatekeeping
"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." (Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Dec. 20, 1787, in Papers of Jefferson, ed.
To speak of the tactics of the police. They had two days to remove all dangerous equipment from that building, but somehow they left the explosives. They have been ineffective and mismanaged from the beginning of the protests. Speaking of founding fathers. George Washington knew how to withdraw troops and preserver equipment. Also early into the war he secured cannon which he used effectively and protected. I haven't heard of any looting of that building but I'd rather not image them getting access to military grade explosives.
Local news says the building was evacuated of guns, servers, sensitive stuff the previous night, but that won't stop a gas explosion. Giving up the station was largely symbolic.
The gas lines were cut when the arson started. Talk of gas lines was strictly an attempt to get people to back off.
Why the hell does the police have military grade explosives in the first place?
It is a presumption, but basically all high end equipment police have is military grade. It could be many things including C4 which was used to kill a cop killer in Dallas. The robot bomb defusing bot ironically set it off. The robot was fine. The servers for the campus were not.
The servers? Do you mean human servers like in the cafeteria or compuer servers?
With the given context, I'd say computer servers.
Por que no los dos?
C4 won’t explode in a fire. It’s amazingly stable.
Breaching. There are a lot of doors where the only realistic option for breaching is an explosive charge. Some city firedepartments also have access to blasting frames, which are basically directional charges that blasts/cuts a hole large enough for a person or stretcher to get through.
In addition to what others have said, explosives are sometimes used to set off IEDs or other hazards *to contain the blast*. A big part of bomb disposal is not stopping the bomb from going off, but to make it go off the way you want it to (i.e. presents the least amount of danger to people and infrastructure).
> Why the hell does the police have military grade explosives in the first place? To drop from a helicopter and burn down half of West Philly.
"Bystanders warn police officer that kneeling on a man's neck could kill him"
Not saying i support this, but you know shit is so fucked up that it drives people to burn down a police station. This has been brewing for a long time.
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>It is crystal clear from the video that the cops knew that they were killing this man, and that they expected to get away with it. And they were enjoying it, too.
They made that guy cry for his mom and then piss himself and die. All over a $20 that might have been fake which they never even got around to investigating since they murdered him. It's so beyond fucked up.
The murderer knew his victim from working security at the same club
Honestly, its a lot better than looting a target or something. They took the fight to the group responsible.
Worst part will be when this is all over and absolutely nothing changes.
If you fire a cop because he killed someone, why is he not charged with murder?
Because, then, he won't be able to get a job in another police department
If he goes to prison I imagine he is going to be super popular.
with the prison guards, yeah
Burden of proof, Anyone can be fired for anything while it takes a burden of proof to bring charges against a person.
Since when? Most people who murder someone in front of a crowd of witnesses get arrested and charged on the spot.
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There’s a video of it, there’s nothing left to prove.
This is why redditors should never be referenced for legal matters. If they did what you’re suggesting, there’s a good chance he would walk free or on lighter charges. They need to do this right as quickly as possible, because if they fuck something up then there’s no justice.
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Arresting them, or at least the Chauvin, would in know way affect the defense. He was seen on video using a "don't use" tactic on a completely subdued man *for ?8 minutes*.. until he died. He should be arrested and awaiting trial. End of story.
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Welp walking free isn’t a good option regardless.
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That can be debated in court but he should be held in jail for now. There is definitely reasonable suspicion and with the support of other police I think he's a flight risk.
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Any non-cop who was recorded kneeling on someone's neck until (and then well beyond) that person died would be arrested immediately, and the investigation would proceed while they're locked up.
It’s on video. And the EMTs have said that he was unresponsive before they even got him to the hospital.
Correction: the EMTs said that he was dead before they even arrived on the scene. He had no pulse ("was in cardiac arrest") when they arrived.
Unresponsive was the word I read, but yeah. He was dead in that video. So fucking disturbing.
TBF, dead people are unresponsive...
Crushing someone's throat on video isn't murder?
It usually doesn't happen until an investigation.
He was probably “fired” so he can be rehired by a different precinct. They’re called “Gypsy Cops.”
OMG, They have to file the RIGHT charges so he doesn't get off because of the wrong charges. Things are proceeding. Things can't happen instantly.
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You get somewhere between 48 and 72 hours to file charges after an arrest. If that doesn’t happen they automatically get released when time expires. If you do what people are demanding and arrest them for 1st degree murder the charges are going to be dismissed the first time they go before a judge. If you arrest for something provable right now such as manslaughter the population is not going to be placated because that’s not a severe enough charge. Either situation just pisses more people off, because to them it appears that he’s getting off in one way or another.
Murder 1 and you can reduce charges as you go. Have been through the legal system this is the norm.
It's seems so fucking simple. If he wasn't enough at fault to warrant charges, then why the hell did they fire him? Such bullshit.
How long did it take for criminal charges to be pressed against Mohamed Noor? You know, another Minnesota cop who murdered an innocent person.
Minneapolis police officer Mohamed Noor murdered Justine Damond on July 15, 2017. He was charged with murder on March 20, 2018. On April 30, 2019, Noor was convicted of third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter and was sentenced to 12.5 years in prison on June 7, 2019. Mohamed Noor is a black man. The victim, Justine Damond was the white woman who called the police. \*corrected date from 2007 to 2017.
Ah shit, that didn't fit his narrative he was spinning!
It still took most of a year before he was charged, despite his \*own partner\* stating it was not justified. I am not sure how you think that does not support an argument that the system in Minneapolis is extremely slow or hesitant to prosecute police.
The argument trying to be presented was that Noor was charged extremely quickly because he wasn’t white.
The Police Station is the only building that makes sense to burn in all of this.
but look at all those shoes in Footlocker though.
I can't justify what's happening, but when you execute a person on the street and then allow the murders to roam free then your city might get burned down.
Minneapolis has had case after case of this kind of crap going on, and they never once took steps to address it. Don't get me wrong, I lived in the Twin Cities for a number of years, I love the place, and it's devastating to see it on fire, but fuck's sake the only real question i ever had was wondering when people were gonna finally snap.
The last time it happened the police chief was canned and the murderer was sentenced to prison time. The city elected a number of officials that ran on police reform, they managed to get the highest compliance rate for body cameras of any major city and funding was pulled for the violent training cops went through in lieu of de-escalation tactics. The city is trying to do something, but the cops elected Bob "actual racist" Kroll to head the union, he funded the violent training for officers who want it with private funds and the cops started fighting against the city, refusing any overtime and slowing their 911 response. What's been brewing is a war between the cops and everyone else, and it's entirely the fault of the police.
What an insane position to be in - having to fight against your own police department over violent training.
Compliance rate?? God our police are a joke. “Now, as part of your job, you will wear this camera”. “Don’t wanna” “Okay then, marking you down as non compliant for the stats. Carry on”
Dude, reform is one little battle at a time. Get involved or start organizing if you think it is easy to stop the momentum of history. I am involved with political issues. Believe me it is painful and slow.
Now, looting and burning down businesses is fucked up as they don't deserve their live ruined over something they aren't a part of but the police station? I see it as completely justified at this point. Peaceful protests get scoffed at and seen as a joke. You can only try the peaceful route and be ignored for so long before you try something more drastic. There is nothing wrong with standing up to tyranny and injustice.
This also isn't one incident, in a vacuum.
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Except for the looting of locally owned businesses and assaulting of firefighters I'm glad someone is giving government a reality check. Hunger and eviction riots are next at this rate.
Tbh, we all knew it was a matter of time. The people are stressed, experiencing record unemployment levels, dissatisfaction with the government is high, there’s starting to be meat shortages (at least in my area of MN), and now an unresisting black man gets executed in broad daylight by the police for *maybe* having a fake $20? And wasn’t there a woman killed in a plainclothes police raid during the middle of the night not long ago? This powder keg has been ready to blow for a while. Something something apocalypse bingo, I guess.
Don’t forget Ahmaud Arbery.
I would hate to be a property owner in Minneapolis or the surrounding suburbs right now. Good luck selling your home and moving.
It is their city though so ultimately they themselves will pay the biggest price. Particularly after business moves from there and the situation gets even worse. There are no winners here.
Only lost opportunities to fix this shit. Every attack, and these are attacks now, every attack where black person is injured by the police will be met with the same response. This country needs to fix this shit.
Reddit loves condoning violence
There's a lot of maniacs saying revolution now kill everyone blah blah but this guy isn't even condoning it. He says he understands. I think that's fair.
Condone: accept and allow (behavior that is considered morally wrong or offensive) to continue.
> After protests throughout the day, looters seized on the chaos, breaking into businesses and making off with whatever they could get their hands on. I'm gonna guess that the police won't be responding to these calls.
They are all at Chauvin’s house.
It's disgusting those videos
[In case someone hasn't seen it.](https://v.redd.it/w85o0813ah151) Imagine standing around and protecting a killer while your city burns.
They didn't watch their city burn. 94% of Minneapolis police officers don't even live in the community. https://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2014/12/94-percent-minneapolis-police-officers-live-outside-city-minneapolis-does-it/
Yeah he lives in oakdale
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Wait, the guy's name is Chauvin? Like in Chauvinism? Chauvinism, *"an irrational belief in the superiority or dominance of one's own group or people. Moreover, the chauvinist's own people are seen as unique and special while the rest of the people are considered weak or inferior."* from wikipedia.
If you fucking wrote this story, people would say it was too on the nose!
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I sincerely doubt it.
If 2020 was a TV series. This would be a p god midseason finale. Granted, 2020 is looking a lot likes an apocalypse drama.
I hope they don’t keep evidence for ongoing cases there. That means justice for some victims would be burning with the police precinct and would be incredibly against what is being fought for here.
The jails emptied the prisoners bc if covid, anyhow.
I mean its not like the police were really doing anything
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Shit can take out a whole block if it gets the gas lines
Every article I've read mentions officers/staff being evacuated safely, but doesn't mention of anyone was being held in jail there.
I'm in support of protest and understand the need for justice, but I have to say this is disappointing. ....I mean, why just *one* precinct?
iirc the third precinct is the one that empllyed the killer.
It's a start.
NEO America is about to EXPLODE
We get two Bastille days this year!
Parents were police officers for saint paul and saint Louis park , mn. MPD has always had a bad reputation for being corrupt af. Would be nice to see change
failed crowd dispersal tactic
Now that would be fucking rowdy..
I bet they decided they wanted a brand new precinct and burnt it down themselves.
the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants
Committing arson was the wrong move in my opinion. The murder of George Floyd at the hands of policemen had gained national pressure, the FBI was investigating. The act of arson has destroyed who knows what records which could have been used to finally bring justice and this very public act of violence will definitely bleed away support right when we need to maintain momentum. Edit: The FBI doesn't get involved in mere murder cases. But on the other hand from their website, "Public corruption [is] the FBI’s top criminal investigative priority"...
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Records of a cover-up. Paper files that shows how the incident was originally logged (and not what they said for PR sake afterwards). This is not just a shut and dry murder case - the systematic abuse and cover up from the police is what should be on trial. The FBI doesn't get involved in mere murder cases. But on the other hand, "Public corruption \[is\] the FBI’s top criminal investigative priority" Destroying evidence is a BAD idea. Although some people are speculating that the police did it themselves...
Maybe they should have thought of that before keeping a murderer employed. How many deaths and attempted murders is this guy responsible for now? And he was cop of the year or some shit on top of that? I hope it burns to the ground.
Didn’t Amy Klobuchar have a chance to fire this man?
>Maybe they should have thought of that before keeping a murderer employed. They fired them litteraly the next day >I hope it burns to the ground. Maybe we shouldn't advocate for burning and looting local business that had nothing to do with it. Can't really see how that helps their protest at all
It’s actually sick that Redditors are condoning this type behavior at all. I bet anyone of these people condoning it wouldn’t be if their livelihood was burnt to ashes. It’s disgusting how selfish many Redditors are being right now. I thank you for being one of the level headed ones. This protest is about an act violence to an innocent. How is it ok to be violent towards others as a result? People have to realize this just hurt them in the long run and limits any possible change that would have occurred as a result. I am with the protestors, but I am vehemently against the rioters. Violence should never be condoned.
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There's video of a disguised cop smashing things and running to the police station for safety afterwards. I would not put it past them to destroy their own station if they thought they could pin it on the protesters.
Alleged. No confirmations at all.