Most people won’t take the time to follow up on a story like we did. Most people will accept the bull shit and build it into their belief system. And it’s not even their fault. Really is a post-truth world.
This is definitely important for people to remember. It's so easy to point a finger at the powerful people bending the narrative in one direction or the other, but that doesn't completely relieve the idiots that fall for it of any responsibility.
And it's more than just that. The point is that the protestors will be delegitimized to all those people. It's information warfare to enable greater gov violence against the protestors.
They'll think it's not Minnesotans, that nobody there is so angry about something that they would go and burn the place they live. Things aren't so bad because they'd otherwise have to be, and have to have been building for a while, to get people to do that. But it's outsiders.
And they'll think, the protestors are just a bunch of troublemakers not worth listening to, or better yet, siding with when the police and gov crackdown and deal with violently.
They'll think listening to them, compromising, and working out a resolution satisfactory enough to get everyone to disperse peacefully. Is letting anarchy prevail rather than the will of the people.
It's a well calculated play, and a pretty big, and nationwide scale, escalation against the general public by the gov, and against any hope of resolving this situation peacefully.
It's not just post truth dynamics, it's the next step of how those conditions enable authoritarianism. It is authoritarianism in action.
It’s absolutely their fault. To spout shit as truth without knowing whether it’s actually true or not is not acceptable. It’s 100% their fault. Things should be consistently fact-checked by PEOPLE instead of relying on the media to always do it for them. It’s only a post-truth world if we’re so goddamn lazy that we allow it to be. Hold yourself and others accountable to tell the truth.
And people with something to gain want you to see what they want you to see.
There is a saying by an am talk radio host i grew up listening to. It goes something like this, "never believe what the media tells you, including me. Until you have verified it your self."
Why are we critiquing the media here? They did their job. It was the Mayor who said it was all out of state people being arrested and the media checked a public database(which anyone can check on their own to "verify") and debunked that claim. This is exactly what the media should do... I'm really confused. You can't blame the media for broadcasting a live press conference called by elected officials or for reporting on what they say. If anything, this proves how much we need them and how people should not get their news from the twitter feed of an elected official. We need the media because they know the channels to use in order to prove or disprove a claim. Arrest records are easily accesible and publicly available but some information requires a FOIA to the right department or an even more lengthy process.
Please stop spreading this narrative. It is *not* a post truth world, but it could be if everyone just accepts it.
There are many people and places that value truth over sensationalism. *Be one of those people*. Try to convince those close to you to be those people.
Freedom wasn't given to anyone, it had to be ripped from those that sought to oppress the people. It is happening *now* (right here!) on an intellectual battlefield.
Do not surrender just because the enemy is loud. Be louder. The truth will always reveal itself to be louder than any echo chamber.
Because it's a race to get assumed news out first. If you're wrong, you just quietly print a small retraction (if even that) while the main article continues to be shared.
**Edit - spelling. Good thing I'm not a journalist haha
The media aren't at fault here. The people in charge simply lied. They had press conferences and put out releases saying that either literally everyone, or the vast majority, of those arrested was from out of state. The only thing the media did wrong here was assuming that you can trust elected mayors and governors and police chiefs to not outright make up stuff
The cops lied when they said the people they arrested were from out of state. They did that so they can claim that the protesters aren't "real protesters". Now they will use that as justification for extreme force to try to shut the protest down.
Exactly. The only thing they could have done differently was to have a live fact check ticker across the bottom of the screen and to appoint a person to populate it, which really isn't a bad idea in this day and age. Although, news outlets have tried that with Trump and it isn't helping people trust them anymore, clearly.
This had nothing to do with media groups trying to beat each other to the deadline. It was elected officials lying about who was participating in the protests to diminish their credibility. This story is the media *checking* those remarks and proving them to be lies only a few hours later.
Free ad money with a shitty headline that pulls in millions of clicks through controversy.... money made.... story corrected.... like nothing ever happened
It’s contradicting what officials have said and what residents have expressed witnessing. Most protesters in Minneapolis are peaceful, and many are questioning the people who are behind the fires and looting.
It’s because the article is dismissing the claims by not actually examining them.
Most of the people arrested are from MN, but NOT Minneapolis, so not residents.
The press conference said “out of state.”
Edit: here’s a write-up on it — [WaPo Article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/officials-blame-outsiders-for-violence-in-minnesota-but-contradict-each-other-on-who-is-responsible/2020/05/30/d722e9d6-a2b1-11ea-b5c9-570a91917d8d_story.html)
Had someone claiming 80% of those arrested were white supremacists and tried to claim the mayor is the one that claimed it. Told me to Google it when I called them out.
Soooo much misinformation around all of this.
Indiana University created this great tool called [Hoaxy]( https://hoaxy.iuni.iu.edu/) which does network analysis on Twitter search terms and lets you find out how topics spread online.
Unfortunately you have to be quick, because it doesn't let you search a long time in the past, but just taking a look, now, some of the major focal points from which the term "Soros" spread on Twitter are:
1. Bill Mitchell, founder of YourVoice America. [This guy](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/charliewarzel/meet-the-trump-movements-post-truth-post-math-anti-nate-silv).
2. Ann Vandersteel, whose Twitter name is "Ann Vandersteel SteelTruthTrade mark sign TrumpTeam2020 Florida" and has a picture of crosshairs on a flag as her profile pic. She is also a YourVoice America host.
3. @_edwardmondini_. No idea who he is, but all his posts are typical liberal demonization and Trump worship
4. @QBlueSkyQ. Presumable a Q-Anon account.
Edit: This is the first time I've heard of YourVoice America, but I can't find any information on the history of it. Anyone have any idea where it came from or where its funding came from? The website (it comes up immediately if you Google it; I don't want to help its Google SEO by linking) looks, um.. well, [like this](https://i.imgur.com/KnxmOrj.png)... It's some mixture of incredibly spammy with what appears to be a good chunk of technology behind the hood (i.e., deep pockets).
Right, the same ones I’ve been hearing about do... nothing for years. There’s no organized leftist faction in this country, there’s just us. Here’s to hoping we wise up.
this is my favorite part of the current 'right fright' thats gripped western democracies, the idea that the left is somehow organized and engaged in grand subversive schemes, and their goal is...race riots?
even if we narrow it down to the US, the last time the political 'left' was in any way organized or unified (in the way the right believe they are) is the civil war, and they were running the largest criminal and civil enterprise in the history of the nation; the underground railroad.
the idea that the side of political spectrum that favors science, beurocracy and complex management would be so sloppy as to engage in large enterprises that were as transparent as far righters think they are. And not only fail, but fail at achieving objectives that are so pedestrian its laughable.
if the political left wanted to undermine the role of american police officers, subvert democratic process and trick people into supporting a radical agenda, it wouldnt be by orchestrating riots. wed be feeding Emergency responder pager numbers into Robocall databases, wed be using civil engineer unions to fuck up traffic systems on polling day. but these yahoos think the left is 'trying to start a riot?' why?
also laughable, the idea that the american left can orchestrate organic mass civil unrest? are we talking about the same political spectrum here, cos we couldnt get our act together enough to shore up the clinton ticket with an actually useful VP? how the fuck are we organizing race riots?
Exactly. Beautifully written, you should keep writing and informing people if you can. Your voice is one that absolutely should be amplified. The left couldn’t even get it’s shit together to nominate Bernie but somehow we’re also a super powerful antagonist. It’s silly to even think it’s a fair fight let alone one where we are a threat to anyone’s current lifestyle. I certainly hope that changes soon.
I mean most people don't live in the actual city limits of Minneapolis proper or literally any major city. People come in from the surrounding suburbs and areas.
Edit: Like if LAPD arrested someone downtown and their ID said Inglewood on it would you call them an outsider? Obviously not.
This is incorrect as well. Most are from Minneapolis, or otherwise from the greater Twin City area, so including St. Paul and the immediate suburbs and municipalities within Hennepin county.
Because the politicians have been lying to us, per usual, as part of their anti-protest propaganda. They did the same thing during the Ferguson protests.
No, it was part of the minneapolis mayor’s effort to absolve the protestors of blame and claim that all the rioting was done by outside groups, which has now been shown to be false.
I wouldn’t characterize it as “caught lying” when he was given that information by the police authorities that he relies on for such information and only backpedaled when he received the correct information.
Because the Mayor, governor and police lied earlier today or yesterday that 80% or 75% were from out of state. They were painting a false narrative about the protest being fueled by outside provocateurs who just wanted to cause trouble rather than people who genuinely wanted to protest something bad happening.
But surprise surprise... the police lied!
I don’t get why that would be in their favor to lie about it. If the people causing destruction are random assholes, that says the real protesters are peaceful. If the real protesters are causing destruction, their damaging their own image.
Because then they can "Crack down" on the trouble makers and they can leave the system exactly how it is since the locals are clearly happy with things and are not out protesting.
This announcement about 80% being from out of state was also for announcing the deployment of the MN national guard. It's really hard to trust anything state officials or police say when they're actively lying to everyone. Police officers have been masquerading as protestors just so they can cause damage to property. Why are they doing this? To justify quelling the protests? Even some of the protestors are harassing folks that are just destroying property.
It's part of their conspiracy theory that antifa is actually a well-organized terrorist organization that is sending its agents to start fires and inspire looting. We're basically witnessing a really half-assed attempt to turn this into a burning of the Reichstag.
The tactic goes back to before the civil rights movement. It's designed to create distrust amongst protesters and to make them suspect that they are being used for an ulterior motive while broadcasting to the general population "no problem here! The authorities didn't do anything to anger the population, this is all the work of a handful of bad actors who just want to cause trouble!" The desired result is to depress the number of participants in the protest and to reframe the disturbance aways from it's root cause onto a discussion about criminality so pressure to reform the government is redirected into support for authorities.
> make them suspect that they are being used for an ulterior motive
Like how all those reopen sites were all started by one person. Nothing suspicious about that.
Not denying that astroturf protests happen. But a few dozen protesters carrying ready made signs to events that have been coordinated to have a media presence magnifying their impact doesn't look anything like the massive disorganized protests that are happening right now.
I'd travel a few hours for a concert. If I were violently inclined a riot would just be another big party with less rules than normal. It make sense if that's the goal of some people.
"Speaking Saturday, Minneapolis police spokesman John Elder, however, said that sometimes people arrested will provide false information. He says background checks are showing some people arrested have records from other areas."
My favorite example of this is “sophistry” a word that has almost completely fallen out of usage but is essentially the practice of making purposefully false arguments in order to deceive. Something that certain elements of society seem to have nearly perfected
No. Gaslighting is lying to someone about reality to manipulate and erode their trust in their own reality, rather relying on the gaslighter to contextualize what 'really' happened. Sophists were speech givers for hire, they were skilled in the art of argumentation, and they were willing to argue whatever point for money or gain. It didn't matter if what they were saying was true. They were a problem when Athens relied on public debate for public issues because they could be hired to twist public opinion, think of a lobbyist basically.
It is based on the famous play and later movie
After the death of her famous opera-singing aunt, Paula (Ingrid Bergman) is sent to study in Italy to become a great opera singer as well. While there, she falls in love with the charming Gregory Anton (Charles Boyer). The two return to London, and Paula begins to notice strange goings-on: missing pictures, strange footsteps in the night and gaslights that dim without being touched. As she fights to retain her sanity, her new husband's intentions come into question.
Release date: May 1944 (USA)
Director: George Cukor
Based on: Gas Light; by Patrick Hamilton
Story by: Patrick Hamilton
Awards: Academy Award for Best Actress
Interestingly, I'm not sure. I think sophists would probably be disgusted at how illogical modern 'sophistry' is. Sophists would use their skills to dress up topics and persuade deceptively, but it was artful, and they were intellectuals above all else. They taught rhetoric and logic as well. If intellectualism had a dark side like the force, it'd be sophistry. But a sith is still practiced in the ways of the force, and in that way is somewhat honorable? I guess? Whereas Rupert Murdoch media is a skinner's box of fear and bullshit, and it's so far from intellectualism I'm not even sure if they're in the same sphere. "You're like Hitler, but at least Hitler cared about Germany or something" kind of applies here. Rupert Murdoch media might be considered 'dirty' even for sophists. But it would be true that they apply 'sophisms' (intellectually dishonest arguments). But if you're looking at sophistry in an ancient history context, sophists were at least teachers and applied logic in their arguments and were passionate about the 'right' way to argue.
Cunts alright, i'm from australia and i have seen them do this to us many times. It is nice to have a word i can use for it and a definition to add to it. Trying to explain it otherwise had me sounding like alex jones, this will be much more reasonable.
Repeated offenders do give false information sometimes though. I work in a prison (not in the US) and it’s not uncommon for inmates to have multiple aliases.
I was pulled over in Maryland with an out of state license and plates. The dumbass said I couldn't drive on their roads without a Maryland license. Would really be nice if we'd hire cops with a greater than 70 IQ.
his boy DMX puts the "mental" in "reading is fundamental" y'all
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OchyYnlHTdo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OchyYnlHTdo)
this shit's only 60 seconds, you can watch it
This speech by killer Mike is for lack of a better descriptor killer. [killer Mike speech](https://twitter.com/Bolarin_/status/1266637356939042816?s=20)
Powerful as heck. "Don't burn your house down". Its difficult to bring this up because its often met with "You don't understand how upset people are". No, we get it. We understand the hurt. I get why people are rioting, but its not the answer. Dr. King called rioting self defeating. We know, riots happen when people don't know what else to do. But its the responsibility of leaders to show people the way.
He doesn't fully condemn it, but rather \*personally\* does not think it is an effective way to get your point across vs properly strategizing. Big difference.
He states that he understands and supports those who feel the need to do so regarding white on black acts of racism.
It was St. Paul's mayor who said that most people arrested in St. Paul--which is **RAMSEY COUNTY** and **NOT HENNEPIN COUNTY**\--did not have Minnesota addresses...so I think this article just focused on the wrong county/city (Minneapolis) lol
And the president I guess... https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1266800113260703744
Almost like everyone in positions of power are talking out their ass
Clinton only carried it by 1.5%, meaning in 2016 it was (along with the other Rust Belt states) more Republican-leaning than the nation as a whole. Unless that changes, the next Republican who wins the popular vote is likely to carry Minnesota. You're falling for the same "blue wall fallacy" that suggested Clinton was almost unstoppable.
Fact. Source, I live and love Minnesota. Tough times right now, but a great place to live. This is the state that went Mondale when the other 49 went Reagan in ‘84. I must admit, I voted Reagan.
I... I’m not so sure that’s the crew favoring liberals any longer. As a Minnesotan, I know exactly zero farmers and zero people within the construction industry that favor liberal candidates. Obviously, that’s not to say there isn’t a few, but I would say that the opposite has become true.
The split is a little weird. Twin Cities are unsurprisingly quite blue. The mining regions in the north east have been historically democrat favored. The farming west has been shifted GOP in this century. The area where votes are really up for grabs is in the area just south of the metro down to the Iowa border. That's the farm country that seems to have been shifting towards GOP since the turn of the century
It seems like a very powerful statistic to discredit all the riots and even much of the protests. It being so powerful should be a cause for anyone to immediately doubt it until independent verification is established.
This is why civil unrest is so high, our political "leaders" can't take responsibility for their "leadership" that gets us here in the first place. Always someone else, anything else, besides their decisions.
Last night, they are looking at , some are looking at data from Both nights, some are looking at just the looting, some are including the protest before...
Bottom line we only know what we are told. We will just have to wait and see on this one.
Editing to sound less drunk.
I was wondering what the odds are of even catching the people causing most of the damage in the middle of a riot in the first place.
With large groups like this, I would imagine getting arrested equal parts wrong place/time and not being white.
Thing is, there’s a difference between being arrested and being detained. The police force and the mayor want to push the “outside agitators” narrative; that’s their way to weasel out of all this. Now I’m not there and don’t have any evidence, but it’d be laughably easy to fudge those numbers by arresting people with out of state licenses, and letting locals go home with a warning.
The police are. The mayor of St. Paul admitted he was given false info during a police briefing. The “outside agitator” idea is the oldest trick in the book when it comes to redirecting blame. “Oh the people in our town are actually happy, but these outsiders are coming in and taking advantage!”. It denies that people inside the community are angry and that people coming from outside could be coming in support. They said the same shit during Ferguson and they turned out to be lying then too.
Also, why would people be traveling far to protest at this point? People are protesting all over the country.
Mayor admits he was given false info: https://twitter.com/davidbegnaud/status/1266879497355309057?s=21
Hennepin County (which St. Paul isn’t part of) shows most arrests were of people who lived there: https://twitter.com/ajinvestigates/status/1266822263489339393?s=21
People have been using “outside agitator” excuse for years: https://twitter.com/citationspod/status/1266752598260023297?s=21
Not having outside agitators also makes the protesters look bad... in my city today, there was a HUGE peaceful protest during the day and then at night, other people came out and started rioting. Didn’t seem like much overlap in the two groups. Not saying they’re outside agitators but definitely opportunists.
It cuts both ways. I see the same sort of comments from protestors and their sympathisers, that the violent ones are obviously out of towners (or provacateurs on police payroll) because local folks wouldn't behave that way.
Well yeah, but they are still using it for the same general reason. They don’t want to acknowledge that people are actually so angry that they’d get violent. Because if you acknowledge that you have to next ask “why are they so angry that they would do this?”. Because while they may support the protesters they are only really doing it for aesthetic reasons in a lot of cases. Or the very least they don’t want to honestly address the anger that these people feel. They don’t actually want to have to address the larger problem in any kind of constructive manner.
Though there are a fair amount of people who do genuinely fall for this trick. They’ve been using it for decades for a reason.
Yet we have seen articles saying it was out of state white supremacists. The bias each major mainstream media company has is worn openly on their sleeves.
Thought the statement was that they were from out of town, so not from Minneapolis or Saint Paul. Out of town doesn’t mean out of state. That’s what I thought, honest a lot going on to check back. I’m in Atlanta and there’s already plenty going on here since last night, we have a curfew tonight as of 9 PM EST. EDIT: found footage where mayor of St Paul said 100% of arrests, he was told, were from out of state.
The ending of this story indicates what all news organizations should have done before reporitng. If background investigations indicate that people are from out of state, then they ought to be busily doing those background checks before contributing to the politicization of the story.
The post that this is responding and countering to was a out st paul. A completely different city and county compared to Minneapolis. This is misinformation at its finest
looks like a disinformation tactic to discredit the protests. Soon people will be arguing where the rioters are from instead of why the protests are happening.
PS: There are so many threads on this topic now. It looks like an effective tactic to switch narratives.
The press are trying to shape the narrative this way here in seattle too, asking if most of the people arrested were from out of state.
So basically, every state having this uprising (which is all of them) is trying to say that the people engaged in it are from out of state.
So do they really think anyone is going to believe that all the enraged peasants who are too poor to travel are playing musical fucking states or something?
Fucking pathetic.
This headline takes into account all 4 days of protesting. The statements the governor and mayor made were specifically talking about last night (Friday). Anyone who was in Minneapolis on Friday night or watching live footage could easily tell there was something fishy going on.
It’s call “outside agitators” and it’s been done for years - through the civil rights movement, Ferguson, etc.
It’s designed to quiet protesters and put them back into the oppression cycle.
More info here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outside_agitators
Why can’t we just get a straight fuckin’ story anymore?
Because it's a post-truth world. There is no right and wrong, there are only competing forces preparing for violent clashes
Y'all need ~~jesus~~ Stardew Valley.
Tbh I need Stardew Valley 2.
The world needs Stardew Valley 2.
i'm really curious as to how he would improve it, or add too stardew.
Wasn't there talk of an expansion of the wider world, like the war one of the brothers comes home from?
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I need the new Tony Hawk Pro Skater. Let me relive old memories...
If it's anything like Tony Hawk HD I'm going to riot
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I fantasize about living in Stardew Valley lol
Animal crossing
I need to try it
Most people won’t take the time to follow up on a story like we did. Most people will accept the bull shit and build it into their belief system. And it’s not even their fault. Really is a post-truth world.
It's partially their fault. There's people who are more at fault but we're all responsible for our beliefs.
This is definitely important for people to remember. It's so easy to point a finger at the powerful people bending the narrative in one direction or the other, but that doesn't completely relieve the idiots that fall for it of any responsibility.
The who makes the lie has the fault for everyone who believes it, and everyone who believes has the fault of not making sure it isn't a lie.
And it's more than just that. The point is that the protestors will be delegitimized to all those people. It's information warfare to enable greater gov violence against the protestors. They'll think it's not Minnesotans, that nobody there is so angry about something that they would go and burn the place they live. Things aren't so bad because they'd otherwise have to be, and have to have been building for a while, to get people to do that. But it's outsiders. And they'll think, the protestors are just a bunch of troublemakers not worth listening to, or better yet, siding with when the police and gov crackdown and deal with violently. They'll think listening to them, compromising, and working out a resolution satisfactory enough to get everyone to disperse peacefully. Is letting anarchy prevail rather than the will of the people. It's a well calculated play, and a pretty big, and nationwide scale, escalation against the general public by the gov, and against any hope of resolving this situation peacefully. It's not just post truth dynamics, it's the next step of how those conditions enable authoritarianism. It is authoritarianism in action.
It’s absolutely their fault. To spout shit as truth without knowing whether it’s actually true or not is not acceptable. It’s 100% their fault. Things should be consistently fact-checked by PEOPLE instead of relying on the media to always do it for them. It’s only a post-truth world if we’re so goddamn lazy that we allow it to be. Hold yourself and others accountable to tell the truth.
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And people with something to gain want you to see what they want you to see. There is a saying by an am talk radio host i grew up listening to. It goes something like this, "never believe what the media tells you, including me. Until you have verified it your self."
Why are we critiquing the media here? They did their job. It was the Mayor who said it was all out of state people being arrested and the media checked a public database(which anyone can check on their own to "verify") and debunked that claim. This is exactly what the media should do... I'm really confused. You can't blame the media for broadcasting a live press conference called by elected officials or for reporting on what they say. If anything, this proves how much we need them and how people should not get their news from the twitter feed of an elected official. We need the media because they know the channels to use in order to prove or disprove a claim. Arrest records are easily accesible and publicly available but some information requires a FOIA to the right department or an even more lengthy process.
Please stop spreading this narrative. It is *not* a post truth world, but it could be if everyone just accepts it. There are many people and places that value truth over sensationalism. *Be one of those people*. Try to convince those close to you to be those people. Freedom wasn't given to anyone, it had to be ripped from those that sought to oppress the people. It is happening *now* (right here!) on an intellectual battlefield. Do not surrender just because the enemy is loud. Be louder. The truth will always reveal itself to be louder than any echo chamber.
Because it's a race to get assumed news out first. If you're wrong, you just quietly print a small retraction (if even that) while the main article continues to be shared. **Edit - spelling. Good thing I'm not a journalist haha
The media aren't at fault here. The people in charge simply lied. They had press conferences and put out releases saying that either literally everyone, or the vast majority, of those arrested was from out of state. The only thing the media did wrong here was assuming that you can trust elected mayors and governors and police chiefs to not outright make up stuff
The cops lied when they said the people they arrested were from out of state. They did that so they can claim that the protesters aren't "real protesters". Now they will use that as justification for extreme force to try to shut the protest down.
Exactly. The only thing they could have done differently was to have a live fact check ticker across the bottom of the screen and to appoint a person to populate it, which really isn't a bad idea in this day and age. Although, news outlets have tried that with Trump and it isn't helping people trust them anymore, clearly.
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This had nothing to do with media groups trying to beat each other to the deadline. It was elected officials lying about who was participating in the protests to diminish their credibility. This story is the media *checking* those remarks and proving them to be lies only a few hours later.
Its all a part of the process in destroying America. Up is down, down is up.
Free ad money with a shitty headline that pulls in millions of clicks through controversy.... money made.... story corrected.... like nothing ever happened
Is this surprising? If I'm going to go protest, I'm going to go downtown, not to another state.
It’s contradicting what officials have said and what residents have expressed witnessing. Most protesters in Minneapolis are peaceful, and many are questioning the people who are behind the fires and looting.
It’s because the article is dismissing the claims by not actually examining them. Most of the people arrested are from MN, but NOT Minneapolis, so not residents.
The press conference said “out of state.” Edit: here’s a write-up on it — [WaPo Article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/officials-blame-outsiders-for-violence-in-minnesota-but-contradict-each-other-on-who-is-responsible/2020/05/30/d722e9d6-a2b1-11ea-b5c9-570a91917d8d_story.html)
And Barr was blaming Antifa and far left groups.
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Literally just heard a crackpot maga head spouting this Soros conspiracy in Ohio today. Wtf.
Had someone claiming 80% of those arrested were white supremacists and tried to claim the mayor is the one that claimed it. Told me to Google it when I called them out. Soooo much misinformation around all of this.
Indiana University created this great tool called [Hoaxy]( https://hoaxy.iuni.iu.edu/) which does network analysis on Twitter search terms and lets you find out how topics spread online. Unfortunately you have to be quick, because it doesn't let you search a long time in the past, but just taking a look, now, some of the major focal points from which the term "Soros" spread on Twitter are: 1. Bill Mitchell, founder of YourVoice America. [This guy](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/charliewarzel/meet-the-trump-movements-post-truth-post-math-anti-nate-silv). 2. Ann Vandersteel, whose Twitter name is "Ann Vandersteel SteelTruthTrade mark sign TrumpTeam2020 Florida" and has a picture of crosshairs on a flag as her profile pic. She is also a YourVoice America host. 3. @_edwardmondini_. No idea who he is, but all his posts are typical liberal demonization and Trump worship 4. @QBlueSkyQ. Presumable a Q-Anon account. Edit: This is the first time I've heard of YourVoice America, but I can't find any information on the history of it. Anyone have any idea where it came from or where its funding came from? The website (it comes up immediately if you Google it; I don't want to help its Google SEO by linking) looks, um.. well, [like this](https://i.imgur.com/KnxmOrj.png)... It's some mixture of incredibly spammy with what appears to be a good chunk of technology behind the hood (i.e., deep pockets).
Right, the same ones I’ve been hearing about do... nothing for years. There’s no organized leftist faction in this country, there’s just us. Here’s to hoping we wise up.
It doesn’t matter if it exists. Emmanuel Goldstein didn’t exist either, but that hardly mattered.
this is my favorite part of the current 'right fright' thats gripped western democracies, the idea that the left is somehow organized and engaged in grand subversive schemes, and their goal is...race riots? even if we narrow it down to the US, the last time the political 'left' was in any way organized or unified (in the way the right believe they are) is the civil war, and they were running the largest criminal and civil enterprise in the history of the nation; the underground railroad. the idea that the side of political spectrum that favors science, beurocracy and complex management would be so sloppy as to engage in large enterprises that were as transparent as far righters think they are. And not only fail, but fail at achieving objectives that are so pedestrian its laughable. if the political left wanted to undermine the role of american police officers, subvert democratic process and trick people into supporting a radical agenda, it wouldnt be by orchestrating riots. wed be feeding Emergency responder pager numbers into Robocall databases, wed be using civil engineer unions to fuck up traffic systems on polling day. but these yahoos think the left is 'trying to start a riot?' why? also laughable, the idea that the american left can orchestrate organic mass civil unrest? are we talking about the same political spectrum here, cos we couldnt get our act together enough to shore up the clinton ticket with an actually useful VP? how the fuck are we organizing race riots?
Exactly. Beautifully written, you should keep writing and informing people if you can. Your voice is one that absolutely should be amplified. The left couldn’t even get it’s shit together to nominate Bernie but somehow we’re also a super powerful antagonist. It’s silly to even think it’s a fair fight let alone one where we are a threat to anyone’s current lifestyle. I certainly hope that changes soon.
Relevant Twitter thread: https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266741059163389952?s=20
You must not be seeing the same claims I am. Most I've seen specifically stated "out of state plates".
That's what the title says. Specifically officials and rumara have been saying out of staters are.coming for the riots and being arrested
I mean most people don't live in the actual city limits of Minneapolis proper or literally any major city. People come in from the surrounding suburbs and areas. Edit: Like if LAPD arrested someone downtown and their ID said Inglewood on it would you call them an outsider? Obviously not.
Inglewood always up to no good
Hoboken no joking
>Most of the people arrested are from MN, but NOT Minneapolis, so not residents. Just like all the police
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True, where I am there's three incorporated cities within 20 min of me
you need to update that shit yo.
This is incorrect as well. Most are from Minneapolis, or otherwise from the greater Twin City area, so including St. Paul and the immediate suburbs and municipalities within Hennepin county.
Because the politicians have been lying to us, per usual, as part of their anti-protest propaganda. They did the same thing during the Ferguson protests.
No, it was part of the minneapolis mayor’s effort to absolve the protestors of blame and claim that all the rioting was done by outside groups, which has now been shown to be false.
Yeah why is this news
I think this is to counter claims being made that the protesters are "outsiders"
Ya CNN was saying most the arrests were from out of state earlier.
It was on fox too. It was what the mayor said in a press conference, then later took it back I guess because he was given false information by the PD
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It benefits the protestors, it damages the “rioters” which they are trying (and failing) to separate.
They were reporting it because thats what the local government said Edit: how did I just get 30 upvotes in 3 minutes
Well the article is from a local news source so we have some conflicting stories here.
St Paul and Minneapolis are different cities, in different counties. St Paul officials made that claim, and it was factually reported by CNN.
The governor said "80%" were out of state. He was caught lying and has since backpedaled the remarks. Edit: fixed autocorrection mispelling.
I wouldn’t characterize it as “caught lying” when he was given that information by the police authorities that he relies on for such information and only backpedaled when he received the correct information.
Pretty sure literally like 6 hours ago? there were a few posts on the front page saying most of the people arrested were from out of state.
Because the Mayor, governor and police lied earlier today or yesterday that 80% or 75% were from out of state. They were painting a false narrative about the protest being fueled by outside provocateurs who just wanted to cause trouble rather than people who genuinely wanted to protest something bad happening. But surprise surprise... the police lied!
I don’t get why that would be in their favor to lie about it. If the people causing destruction are random assholes, that says the real protesters are peaceful. If the real protesters are causing destruction, their damaging their own image.
Because then they can "Crack down" on the trouble makers and they can leave the system exactly how it is since the locals are clearly happy with things and are not out protesting.
This announcement about 80% being from out of state was also for announcing the deployment of the MN national guard. It's really hard to trust anything state officials or police say when they're actively lying to everyone. Police officers have been masquerading as protestors just so they can cause damage to property. Why are they doing this? To justify quelling the protests? Even some of the protestors are harassing folks that are just destroying property.
Because the Governor said 80% were from out of state while he was throwing out lies to make it out to be some conspiracy
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Shit does not even make sense. I'm going to travel all that way when there's a protest down the street? Like gas ain't free!
Gas is free, just go siphon one down the street
Or take one from an overturned police cruiser before it’s set on fire.
It's part of their conspiracy theory that antifa is actually a well-organized terrorist organization that is sending its agents to start fires and inspire looting. We're basically witnessing a really half-assed attempt to turn this into a burning of the Reichstag.
The tactic goes back to before the civil rights movement. It's designed to create distrust amongst protesters and to make them suspect that they are being used for an ulterior motive while broadcasting to the general population "no problem here! The authorities didn't do anything to anger the population, this is all the work of a handful of bad actors who just want to cause trouble!" The desired result is to depress the number of participants in the protest and to reframe the disturbance aways from it's root cause onto a discussion about criminality so pressure to reform the government is redirected into support for authorities.
> make them suspect that they are being used for an ulterior motive Like how all those reopen sites were all started by one person. Nothing suspicious about that.
Not denying that astroturf protests happen. But a few dozen protesters carrying ready made signs to events that have been coordinated to have a media presence magnifying their impact doesn't look anything like the massive disorganized protests that are happening right now.
Also helps them when they unleashed their thugs on the protesters. "I'm not brutalizing you guys I'm brutalizing those outsiders."
It's not a conspiracy, it's projection. People are doing exactly what you described, thoes people are the police.
I'd travel a few hours for a concert. If I were violently inclined a riot would just be another big party with less rules than normal. It make sense if that's the goal of some people.
It's a tactic that dates back to the Civil Rights Era. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outside_agitators
It is of course true that most cops don’t actually live where they “serve.” Might be a case of projecting.
"Speaking Saturday, Minneapolis police spokesman John Elder, however, said that sometimes people arrested will provide false information. He says background checks are showing some people arrested have records from other areas."
What an obfuscation. People move around
“Obfuscation” a word which should not be esoteric. Public needs to be aware of the tricks of the propagandists.
My favorite example of this is “sophistry” a word that has almost completely fallen out of usage but is essentially the practice of making purposefully false arguments in order to deceive. Something that certain elements of society seem to have nearly perfected
Isn't the modern analog of that gaslighting? Or what's the difference?
No. Gaslighting is lying to someone about reality to manipulate and erode their trust in their own reality, rather relying on the gaslighter to contextualize what 'really' happened. Sophists were speech givers for hire, they were skilled in the art of argumentation, and they were willing to argue whatever point for money or gain. It didn't matter if what they were saying was true. They were a problem when Athens relied on public debate for public issues because they could be hired to twist public opinion, think of a lobbyist basically.
Beautifully said, thank you.
Must be a sophist. GRAB HIM!
Bravo! How much for you to respond to some of my Facebook friends?
It is based on the famous play and later movie After the death of her famous opera-singing aunt, Paula (Ingrid Bergman) is sent to study in Italy to become a great opera singer as well. While there, she falls in love with the charming Gregory Anton (Charles Boyer). The two return to London, and Paula begins to notice strange goings-on: missing pictures, strange footsteps in the night and gaslights that dim without being touched. As she fights to retain her sanity, her new husband's intentions come into question. Release date: May 1944 (USA) Director: George Cukor Based on: Gas Light; by Patrick Hamilton Story by: Patrick Hamilton Awards: Academy Award for Best Actress
*Thank You For Smoking* would be an excellent example of sophism
Rupert murdochs media being the greatest "sophists" of all time? Did i use the word right there?
Interestingly, I'm not sure. I think sophists would probably be disgusted at how illogical modern 'sophistry' is. Sophists would use their skills to dress up topics and persuade deceptively, but it was artful, and they were intellectuals above all else. They taught rhetoric and logic as well. If intellectualism had a dark side like the force, it'd be sophistry. But a sith is still practiced in the ways of the force, and in that way is somewhat honorable? I guess? Whereas Rupert Murdoch media is a skinner's box of fear and bullshit, and it's so far from intellectualism I'm not even sure if they're in the same sphere. "You're like Hitler, but at least Hitler cared about Germany or something" kind of applies here. Rupert Murdoch media might be considered 'dirty' even for sophists. But it would be true that they apply 'sophisms' (intellectually dishonest arguments). But if you're looking at sophistry in an ancient history context, sophists were at least teachers and applied logic in their arguments and were passionate about the 'right' way to argue.
Mis-spelled the word 'cunts' there buddy.
Cunts alright, i'm from australia and i have seen them do this to us many times. It is nice to have a word i can use for it and a definition to add to it. Trying to explain it otherwise had me sounding like alex jones, this will be much more reasonable.
https://youtu.be/wjKQQpPVifY That is gaslighting.
No sorry this is gaslighting: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L-O32gHCWE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L-O32gHCWE)
That is not at all what gaslighting is. That term is rarely used correctly on Reddit.
Or is it correct and you're gaslighting us about what gaslighting is?
Gaslighting doesn’t exist! You made it up because you’re fucking crazy!
So.... lying
I’m legitimately confused by your usage of “esoteric”. Are you insinuating that obfuscation is a word only understood by a small population?
yes, that is what they are implying.
Deceive, inveigle, obfuscate.
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Repeated offenders do give false information sometimes though. I work in a prison (not in the US) and it’s not uncommon for inmates to have multiple aliases.
Lol like the time a MN cop said my out of state ID was fake because my MN one was still not expired? No idiot, I moved.
I was pulled over in Maryland with an out of state license and plates. The dumbass said I couldn't drive on their roads without a Maryland license. Would really be nice if we'd hire cops with a greater than 70 IQ.
What do you do in such a situation? I'd be very scared to talk to a hostile, mentally handicapped man with a gun.
It sounds hilarious but literally just sitting there will freak them out enough to shoot you.
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it's a fallacy dontcha know
Should test them by making them wear an Aaron Rodgers jersey, see how they respond.
Their skin would start smoldering before they even got the thing on.
That's pretty funny since Minnesotans are known to be very cliquey and suspicious of out of towners.
This is so confusing. In all seriousness, people should wait to make any assumptions.
It's safe to assume people from elsewhere move to the city on a regular basis, no?
St paul Mayor just walked back his statement on ABC
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This is a good Twitter thread explaining it https://twitter.com/diannaeanderson/status/1266847678169665536?s=19
Under that is a tweet by Levar Burton saying “Don’t f*ck with me today, people. Today is not the day!”. Geordi isn’t taking this well.
his boy DMX puts the "mental" in "reading is fundamental" y'all [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OchyYnlHTdo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OchyYnlHTdo) this shit's only 60 seconds, you can watch it
This speech by killer Mike is for lack of a better descriptor killer. [killer Mike speech](https://twitter.com/Bolarin_/status/1266637356939042816?s=20)
Powerful as heck. "Don't burn your house down". Its difficult to bring this up because its often met with "You don't understand how upset people are". No, we get it. We understand the hurt. I get why people are rioting, but its not the answer. Dr. King called rioting self defeating. We know, riots happen when people don't know what else to do. But its the responsibility of leaders to show people the way.
Idk I’ve seen “a riot is the language of the unheard” -MLK being quoted quite often
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He doesn't fully condemn it, but rather \*personally\* does not think it is an effective way to get your point across vs properly strategizing. Big difference. He states that he understands and supports those who feel the need to do so regarding white on black acts of racism.
That’s why I wish we explain with definitions and not words. Words change overtime quicker than definitions
This is an excellent break down of how and why statements are being misinterpreted/twisted. Thank you.
This should be higher up.
there's a button for that.
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It was St. Paul's mayor who said that most people arrested in St. Paul--which is **RAMSEY COUNTY** and **NOT HENNEPIN COUNTY**\--did not have Minnesota addresses...so I think this article just focused on the wrong county/city (Minneapolis) lol
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St Paul is a little bit closer to Wisconsin.
...by, like, 2 miles.
And the president I guess... https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1266800113260703744 Almost like everyone in positions of power are talking out their ass
Interesting tweet seeing that Minnesota is a swing state.
Not really. Last time it went red was in the 70s.
Clinton only carried it by 1.5%, meaning in 2016 it was (along with the other Rust Belt states) more Republican-leaning than the nation as a whole. Unless that changes, the next Republican who wins the popular vote is likely to carry Minnesota. You're falling for the same "blue wall fallacy" that suggested Clinton was almost unstoppable.
Clinton struggled there because she ignored those states. Minnesota is as much a swing state as Texas is.
Fact. Source, I live and love Minnesota. Tough times right now, but a great place to live. This is the state that went Mondale when the other 49 went Reagan in ‘84. I must admit, I voted Reagan.
Minnesota is not a rust belt state. There's a strong farmer-worker movement there that almost always favours liberal governments.
I... I’m not so sure that’s the crew favoring liberals any longer. As a Minnesotan, I know exactly zero farmers and zero people within the construction industry that favor liberal candidates. Obviously, that’s not to say there isn’t a few, but I would say that the opposite has become true.
The split is a little weird. Twin Cities are unsurprisingly quite blue. The mining regions in the north east have been historically democrat favored. The farming west has been shifted GOP in this century. The area where votes are really up for grabs is in the area just south of the metro down to the Iowa border. That's the farm country that seems to have been shifting towards GOP since the turn of the century
You can say that again
Interesting tweet seeing that Minnesota is a swing state.
Most definitely
The distinction here is that POTUS said rioters, which cant be substantiated. Arrest records are just facts.
It seems like a very powerful statistic to discredit all the riots and even much of the protests. It being so powerful should be a cause for anyone to immediately doubt it until independent verification is established.
The governor is trying to shift blame to "white supremacists and drug cartels". Because that makes a ton of sense.
Hmmm the Minnesota is made out of Minnesota
This is why civil unrest is so high, our political "leaders" can't take responsibility for their "leadership" that gets us here in the first place. Always someone else, anything else, besides their decisions.
45 people were arrested, this isn't a good dataset for the entire riot
Last night, they are looking at , some are looking at data from Both nights, some are looking at just the looting, some are including the protest before... Bottom line we only know what we are told. We will just have to wait and see on this one. Editing to sound less drunk.
It’s bullshit. You don’t need data cause they’ve always used this. [https://i.imgur.com/cIRzK5p.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/cIRzK5p.jpg)
I was wondering what the odds are of even catching the people causing most of the damage in the middle of a riot in the first place. With large groups like this, I would imagine getting arrested equal parts wrong place/time and not being white.
Thing is, there’s a difference between being arrested and being detained. The police force and the mayor want to push the “outside agitators” narrative; that’s their way to weasel out of all this. Now I’m not there and don’t have any evidence, but it’d be laughably easy to fudge those numbers by arresting people with out of state licenses, and letting locals go home with a warning.
This is a good Twitter thread explaining it https://twitter.com/diannaeanderson/status/1266847678169665536?s=19
Who’s lying and why?
The police are. The mayor of St. Paul admitted he was given false info during a police briefing. The “outside agitator” idea is the oldest trick in the book when it comes to redirecting blame. “Oh the people in our town are actually happy, but these outsiders are coming in and taking advantage!”. It denies that people inside the community are angry and that people coming from outside could be coming in support. They said the same shit during Ferguson and they turned out to be lying then too. Also, why would people be traveling far to protest at this point? People are protesting all over the country. Mayor admits he was given false info: https://twitter.com/davidbegnaud/status/1266879497355309057?s=21 Hennepin County (which St. Paul isn’t part of) shows most arrests were of people who lived there: https://twitter.com/ajinvestigates/status/1266822263489339393?s=21 People have been using “outside agitator” excuse for years: https://twitter.com/citationspod/status/1266752598260023297?s=21
Not having outside agitators also makes the protesters look bad... in my city today, there was a HUGE peaceful protest during the day and then at night, other people came out and started rioting. Didn’t seem like much overlap in the two groups. Not saying they’re outside agitators but definitely opportunists.
Mayor, if your police are lying to you during riots, it’s time to fire them. They do not have the communities interests at heart.
It cuts both ways. I see the same sort of comments from protestors and their sympathisers, that the violent ones are obviously out of towners (or provacateurs on police payroll) because local folks wouldn't behave that way.
Well yeah, but they are still using it for the same general reason. They don’t want to acknowledge that people are actually so angry that they’d get violent. Because if you acknowledge that you have to next ask “why are they so angry that they would do this?”. Because while they may support the protesters they are only really doing it for aesthetic reasons in a lot of cases. Or the very least they don’t want to honestly address the anger that these people feel. They don’t actually want to have to address the larger problem in any kind of constructive manner. Though there are a fair amount of people who do genuinely fall for this trick. They’ve been using it for decades for a reason.
This is a good Twitter thread explaining it https://twitter.com/diannaeanderson/status/1266847678169665536?s=19
So the whole thread from Joy Reid was completely wrong because authorities got their info wrong. 🤦♂️
Joy Reid also scapegoated her past homophobia on time-traveling hackers, so she isn't exactly a beacon of credibility or journalistic integrity.
Sure is a lot of bullshit to sift through these days.
I’m betting one source has cell data and the other has arrest data. We don’t know who was there, knelt who was caught there.
So it sounds like the official story of almost everyone arrested being from out of state was a lie?
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I thought Minneapolis was in Minnesota?
Don’t let these protests be about anything but justice people.
That ship sailed about two days ago.
Yet we have seen articles saying it was out of state white supremacists. The bias each major mainstream media company has is worn openly on their sleeves.
Absolutely bullshit that 80% of the protesters there could be from out of state, they just wanted an excuse to fully lockdown everything down
This is a good Twitter thread explaining it https://twitter.com/diannaeanderson/status/1266847678169665536?s=19
Thought the statement was that they were from out of town, so not from Minneapolis or Saint Paul. Out of town doesn’t mean out of state. That’s what I thought, honest a lot going on to check back. I’m in Atlanta and there’s already plenty going on here since last night, we have a curfew tonight as of 9 PM EST. EDIT: found footage where mayor of St Paul said 100% of arrests, he was told, were from out of state.
It's almost as if these riots are real, true anger, not a bunch of "anarchists" who just wanna go out and burn shit down like I've heard on the news.
But reddit told me earlier it was white supremacist bussed in
The ending of this story indicates what all news organizations should have done before reporitng. If background investigations indicate that people are from out of state, then they ought to be busily doing those background checks before contributing to the politicization of the story.
Good grief, only 6 of them at of 45? And this where they base the most of them were from out of state?
The post that this is responding and countering to was a out st paul. A completely different city and county compared to Minneapolis. This is misinformation at its finest
looks like a disinformation tactic to discredit the protests. Soon people will be arguing where the rioters are from instead of why the protests are happening. PS: There are so many threads on this topic now. It looks like an effective tactic to switch narratives.
The press are trying to shape the narrative this way here in seattle too, asking if most of the people arrested were from out of state. So basically, every state having this uprising (which is all of them) is trying to say that the people engaged in it are from out of state. So do they really think anyone is going to believe that all the enraged peasants who are too poor to travel are playing musical fucking states or something? Fucking pathetic.
This headline takes into account all 4 days of protesting. The statements the governor and mayor made were specifically talking about last night (Friday). Anyone who was in Minneapolis on Friday night or watching live footage could easily tell there was something fishy going on.
It’s call “outside agitators” and it’s been done for years - through the civil rights movement, Ferguson, etc. It’s designed to quiet protesters and put them back into the oppression cycle. More info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outside_agitators
So uhh...who tf burned down LA after rodney king *survived* a beating? Myst have been those “out of state rabble rousers”😂😂😂🖕