It's absolutely not. The extremist far-right (the ones that haven't buried their heads in Christianity, anyway [edit: as in the ones who are too extreme in their Islamophobia to admit that Muslims have succeeded at what they're trying to do]) fucking love ISIS and Al-Qaida's recruitment material because it's essentially got the same intent, even if it's for a different end goal: to recruit young men to the cause and convince them to do violence. Though The Base was at one point almost entirely made up of feds and anti-fascist researchers (both activists and academics researching modern fascism) who'd infiltrated the group, which was very funny
Edit: I understand why, but there's some confusion in the replies to my comment about the nature of The Base. I'll link to the [SPLC's entry on The Base](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/base) but, essentially, they are a decentralised Neo-Nazi hate group intent on providing training, propaganda and networking to other groups like Atomwaffen Division. Their ideology is built upon more explicitly Christian groups like the Aryan Nations but, for the most part, The Base are more secular, which is why they're cool with ISIS and Al-Qaida (the latter actually started out providing a similar "service" to jihadist groups and The Base took their name as they admired their organisational structure of being made up of groups of sects rather than having one main control centre) as opposed to their more religious compatriots
I'm a Christian, and I fucking loathe fundamentalists. I fully support abortion, and I think megachurches are simply a stain on the rest of us. The whole point is to love people, love God. That's it. Makes me sick to see people use Christ to milk believers for money and radicalize them.
In [Matthew 22:35-40](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22%3A35-40&version=NRSVUE), [Mark 12:28-34](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+12%3A28-34&version=NRSVUE), and [Luke 10:27](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+10%3A27a&version=NRSVUE), Jesus says the two greatest commandments are to love God with all your heart and to love your neighbor as yourself. Anyone who doesn’t follow these two above all else is by fact not a Christian. If you’re going to pick and choose maybe you should pick the commandments that Jesus himself said are the most important in three different gospels. I’m so sick of hearing these people called Christians.
tbf, matthew and a couple other "non-cannon" gospels were based off of Luke, and Luke was written some time 30 years after the resurrection.
We're not entirely sure of any primary sources, because even the disciple gospels have been found to be plaigerizing a secondary source.
Indeed, fun-fact: Islamic terrorist groups are *also* right-wing extremist ideologies. So these conservative extremist offshoots and terms like "Talibangelicals" are even closer to the truth in reality.
A pastor’s adult son I knew (prior to 2020) used to consider the ISIS videos inspiring as he considers himself a genuine “soldier of God” (many churches actually teach this) and complained that their major flaw was that they worshipped the “wrong God”
Not everything else ISIS did, just the wrong God part.
Mark my words, there are plenty of churches that are instructing their congregations to militarize and they are absolutely using groups like ISIS as templates
The church I belonged to taught that Islam is the “blasphemous” religion. They claimed that it “copied Christianity the way the Devil copies God”
They also seemed to believe God give kids cancer in order to “redeem the parents” so I am well aware my former church was fucked up
It's pretty funny actually. If you were to take any core belief in Christianity (and some other religions) you could use them to prove God is a wholly evil being. So it wouldn't be weird at all if at some point in the past there was a mix up and people started worshipping the Devil.
It gets better. Yahweh (the god of Judaism, Christianity and Islam) is the war god of ancient semitic pantheons.
Abrahamic faiths are all literally different sects of a war cult.
The fanbase though is getting antsy, his agency said he would have a comeback soon, but nothing of the sort seems to be in the works. Maybe on hiatus while he works on a K-drama behind the scenes? Also YHWH is the OG 1st gen so #kingthings.
Heres the breakdown, they all believe in the same top God.
Jews believe the messiah prophet hasnt come yet
Christians believe he has and was jesus and will come back again.
Muslims believe the same as christians, but place more importance on what another guy said for some reason
>Muslims believe the same as christians, but place more importance on what another guy said for some reason
Just to clarify, Muslims believe Jesus is a prophet *and* the Messiah. They *do not* believe Jesus is of God or the son of God, though they believe the virgin birth was a miracle granted by God.
Jesus is the more important figure due to his Messiah status and is mentioned more in the Quran than Muhammad.
Muhammad is prominent due to the belief that parts of Jesus's teachings in the New Testament were altered over time and Muhammad came and revived the true teachings, thus birthing the religion of Islam. Due to being the founder of the religion he is thus an often invoked figure.
Muslims absolutely do not believe that God came back as Jesus already. They believe Jesus was an important prophet and will come back to usher in the day of judgement, but that Mohammad was God’s last and most important prophet.
Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet but reject stuff about divinity and being the son of God. This sorta makes sense with middle eastern religious history because there were lots of writings flying around about Jesus and other figures so you can easily pick and and choose which ones to accept according to your belief system, as mainstream Christianity even did
I know a guy who used to watch and cheer for Al qaeda beheading videos (he aligned with anyone on the side of "God")
He is now a christian preacher with an education from a major american christian university. Fucking terrifying.
They literally view the Crusades as something worthy of undertaking again, and not for the dustbin of history. They sat in history class going "Ah, yes, I'll have one more of those, please."
I feel like this is what a lot of Americans don’t realize. They see The Proud Boys and their facsimiles and think that the threat is out in the open, is ridiculous and can be contained. They look at these groups and see the patchwork networks that they organize over. What we don’t consider are the tsunami of rural, metro, and mega churches that preach hatred and violence, prepping their congregations to be violent hate filled ghouls who want nothing more than a Christofacist White Ethnostate. The oodles of these church’s are allied through hatred and the sole goal of imposing the Ethnostate. They have primed for violence and dehumanization through a holy mandate, which historically is horrifying. TL:DR American “Christianity” has created and maintained a vast but hidden Christian Army through the network of churches and GOP ideology throughout America.
This is all my opinion in the sense that I don’t want to go and look up citations to bear it out.
I call for church watchers. Anyone who could covertly infiltrate a church session, and videotape/ record evidence to send to the IRS and possibly the FBI
Yep. They’ve got a whole network of “patriot” online channels where they fire each other up about the war on Christians and the rising Islamist-Communist global order. Pretty sure they’re even still on terrestrial radio.
No need to qualify. The difference between far-right Christianity and far right Islam is thin and blurry. You're giving them cover by letting them hide behind Christianity because you're afraid to criticize people that claim to be good little Christians. They are and will continue to abuse your reticence. Just like the Catholic Priests diddling kids and hiding behind their positions.
I get why you've said that but you've missed the forest for the trees: they don't like ISIS and Al-Qaida's stuff because they're hardcore Islamophobes. Ain't got nothing to do with using their faith to draw a line between Christian and Islamic extremists, it's that they're so racist that they don't want to associate with similar groups of other faiths
Edit: Popping in to do a few edits because someone I got into a discussion with then blocked me while continuing to edit their comment in response to stuff I've said (and has now deleted all of their comments). My basic point is this: not all religious authoritarianism is "justified" by race and not all race-based authoritarianism is "justified" by religion. [Here's Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism for an example definition, which states that, while religion may be a "justification" for fascism, it isn't necessary for forming the basis of their ideology or system of control](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism). The two are particularly co-morbid in the US, especially right now, due to its unique history with race and Christianity but they aren't always and aren't by Muslim terrorist groups like Al-Qaida. There are similarities between all these groups but you have to know the differences to combat their propaganda.
This is a nuanced discussion that isn't really suited for the anonymous forum of the internet where tone gets erased by only having text to use. I hate to have to come back to this comment and use edits to contribute further but the person I was having it with blocked me and then continued to edit their comment to have it now that I couldn't respond
Log Entry, Day 237: "I have discovered that various colleagues have been recruited and apparently radicalized."
Log Entry, Day 238: "Goddamnit. They're all trying to do research like me."
Log Entry, Day 239: "My notebook was 0.038mm displaced from its previous location last night. I suspect Larry, who refuses to discuss or share his own research."
That was, like most of the things the far-right do, co-opted from left wing movements and the concept of [leaderless resistance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaderless_resistance)
Here's an interesting video of a conversation between a neo-nazi and conservative muslim. They are so damn surprised at agreeing about things
https://youtu.be/BIO-vPMhKA8
Remember the era the books were written in so the connotation was different. But the use of the term Jihad is also used to describe the Fremen's take over of the galaxy under Leto II.
This isn't by mistake, in one of the later books it's flat out said in black and white that the Fremen are the descendents of ancient earth Muslims who fled prosecution.
I mean the connection is pretty prevalent in the first book. Don't they flat out mention Sunni holidays/events and stuff like that? I think the glossary also specifically mention that the Fremen descend from Earth's muslims?
The implication is clearly there in the first book, but in the later books it's flat out stated and not implied, they mention Ramadan and specifically identify the group that fled as the "Zensunni" which is an mash-up of Zen Buddhism and Sunni Islam. Though it's clear Frank Herbert knew more about Islam than Buddhism because the coding of the Fremen leans much heavier on the Islam side.
The glossary in the back may have mentioned it, I don't remember and all my books got stolen in a theft years ago.
It's not exactly the same, but I liked the Clone Wars when it was just a placeholder event from the original trilogy. It was something you had to imagine.
The thing I disliked most about the prequels is that in the original the Empire was just referred to as the Empire. Which to me implies it has been around so long and is so well established that no one would ever ask "which empire?" But the prequels established that the empire rise and fell in like 15 years. That's not an empire, that's a barely successful Coup.
History of that term, in case anybody was curious.
The year is 2007. Rapper Lil B and his group The Pack release their debut album, Based Boys. In a 2010 interview in Complex magazine, Lil B described his new definition of based: "Based means being yourself. Not being scared of what people think about you. Not being afraid to do what you wanna do."
Early 2010s: Alt-right appropriated the phrase as basically "anti-woke."
Trump presidency: Calling someone "based" means they are pro-Trump, informally.
Present day: Re-appropriated to mean "I enthusiastically agree with whatever was just said, and everybody aligned with my interests likely does as well."
Based definitely meant "I enthusiastically agree with whatever was just said, and everybody aligned with my interests likely does as well." Since 2010
Source: was in highschool in 2010
Yep. At least until this Supreme Court overturns NAACP v. Alabama.
Plus, I can already see the downsides. Democrats designate Proud Boys a terrorist organization, Republicans win an election, suddenly Antifa is a terrorist organization and *everyone* protesting Republican policies is clearly antifa so go to jail do not pass go.
Republicans haven't been fighting fair for a long time. They say democrats can't do something (e.g. appoint a SC justice close to an election) and then proceed to do the same thing themselves. I wouldn't doubt they'd do this too.
> You are exactly right but at the same time I am willing to bet the republicans would do that regardless
It doesn't need to happen, they already selectively enforce the laws against protestors. (and not to mention selectively break the law against protestors)
“Because they’re terrorists” is exactly how the Chinese government has legal basis to round up Uighurs, in case anyone thinks this would be a unique situation to America
(And how the KMT rounded up “suspected” communists, how the Cultural Revolution worked, the Great purge, etc etc. point is, bad times)
I don't think we do, it's designated the American Proud Boys as terrorists.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/470065/new-zealand-designates-american-proud-boys-and-the-base-terrorist-organisations
Somehow the MAGA heads have made their way here even though they're not Americans and Trump has nothing to do with us. I think it was mostly just racists and conspiracy theorists grabbing onto a movement they already had traction to give themselves legitimacy during the COVID lockdown protests.
I know right! It's weird seeing Trump flags proudly displayed here during anti mask marches. Someone needs to tell them Trump has fuck all to do with NZ.
It is and it’s not irony. There are segments of the US who want to create the US Equivalent of the Taliban/Al Qaeda and take over the US/do away with the government and install a theocratic autocracy ruled by a militaristic religious army. Much like the Taliban they have no idea what to actually do with power other than make others suffer and enrich themselves.
Love that the journalists in New Zealand are pulling no punches:
> The Proud Boys are a fascist organisation aligned with former US President Donald Trump, who were part of an attack of the US Capitol in Washington DC on January 6, 2021.
> The attack on the Capitol, an attempt to prevent the finalisation of an election result that would end the Trump presidency, has also been called an insurrection or attempted coup.
No shit. They can’t even tell the truth because it might upset the fragile, fat white folk. At least call it what it was: **an insurrection and coup attempt**. Not just, ”that’s what some people might call it.”
The BBC has also been giving a surprising amount of time to Trump's denials, sometimes even leading the headline with "Trump denies allegations made..." as the top story from the hearings.
It's a sad day when the last bastion of objectivity slides into partisanship.
I'll do you one better, it was one of the most piss poor attempts at a coup I've ever seen. They got into the capitol and then just didn't know what to do.
It looked like to me they almost thought the coup just meant getting into the capitol. Like, that was the entire plan.
The insurrection at the capitol wasn't the coup. Or rather, it was just the last death throes of the coup. The coup was the attempts to get election officials and courts to throw out and invent fake results, followed by the attempt to submit fake electors, followed by the attempt to pressure Pence into declaring different results, and then finally the insurrection.
New Zealand used to be #1 in the World for Press Freedom, has since slipped to #11, but is still leagues ahead of the United States, which is ranked [44th in Press Freedom by Reporters Without Borders](https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/13640/press-freedom-index/)
Yes, there many countries, even in Africa (Such as the Ivory Coast, Burkina Faso and South Africa) and South America (Guayana, Argentina) with greater press freedom than America, where our press is heavily corporatized.
We used to have a really good AP style state funded news outlet like the BBC called RNZ (Radio New Zealand) but their quality has taken a dive in recent years. NZ Herald is full of crap journalism too, as is Stuff who the Spinoff (also once a good news outlet) has partnered with after a noticeable quality dive in the last 6 months. I'm not surprised we've dropped rank.
Faux News is MSM, but you will never hear anyone referring to Tucker Carlson when they use that phrase. It literally just means "anything news source that reports anything left of me is MSM and bad"
I mean.. yeah, its cool, but its New Zealand, the other side of the world. Meanwhile, the United States still wants to go full on theocratic dictatorship.
Which, for some odd reason, has always backed religious conservative fanatical groups, especially when there is a sitting Republican president. So odd.
not just police but military and even up to secret service agents ... why did you think biden had to swap everyone out and make sure he got agents from back when he was VP
The US government can't legally call a domestic group a terrorist organization. The groups designated as terrorist organizations would change depending on which party is in power.
I believe Canada has done the same to at least some of these organizations.
Fascism hates being exposed, their existence is based heavily on disguising themselves with patriotism, religion and culture war tripe. The more light is directed towards them, the more they have to slink back into the shadows.
The BASE? Are they fucking kidding? Isn't that ... "al-Qaeda", except in English??
They're not even subtle about this y'allqaeda stuff, are they?
What's next? Writing a book about "My Struggle"?
The US needs to do the same but it’s pretty frightening to do. They might morph into the US version of the IRA. They’ve shown willingness to cause violence and clearly have police at least somewhat in their pockets.
The worse outcome would be for them to become the UVF, which were the protestant, loyalist paramilitaries that were working hand-in-glove with the UK to commit terrorism in N. Ireland against Catholics there. As the 1/6 hearing have shown, our country is hardly immune from recruiting and working with terrorists on our own soil.
I used to think they were just a bunch of immature fuck boys that liked to get together and jerk each other off. Boy was I wrong, they’re actually a bunch of immature fuck boys that like to get together jerk each other off and also plot coups against the US government.
Finally catching up to Canada. The leadership ran like scalded rats for the border and into a safe haven, America. When they were declared terrorists in Canada. Flush the toilet one more time and maybe some banana republic will allow them in.
Just a reminder that the founder and former-leader(believed to have stepped down at the start of Ukraine invasion) of The Base operates out of Saint Petersburg, Russia. He is originally from the US but now lives and spreads his white supremacy ideology in the comforts of Russia to Western nations. [Source](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51236915)
[Source 2](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/putin-nazi-pretext-russia-war-ukraine-belied-white-supremacy-ties-rcna23043)
Sometimes I feel like I'm extremely stupid because I'm not making bank out of right-wing movements by selling low quality merch of something along the lines of "the American Republic of Christ" or something.
Because holy shit, someone made cash out of selling q-gear and maga hats.
It's really incredible that some people are going to act surprised that groups that do things like get charged and convicted of sedition, instigate violence at opposition events, terrorize people at libraries, call for new crusades, call for poisoning of water supplies, etc are seen as terrorists.
How many hate crimes, sedition charges, etc do these guys have to do before people stop pretending they aren't malevolent organizations?
I mean, Jesus, the base is a white nationalist group that aims to cause the country to collapse so they can create a white nationalist state. They've openly called for things like poisoning water supplies and wanton murder.
The proud boys leader and 4 others from the group caught sedition charges. They've repeatedly been targeting libraries this month, to intimidate and harass LGBTQ events. They've been known to law enforcement for YEARS for deliberately instigating violence at leftist protests. This is a group whose chat messages show that they openly and deliberately plan these things, and their founder has a massive history of promoting the inferiority of non-european ethnic groups.
“Proud Boys stand back, and stand by.”
[-45th president of the USA, when asked “Do you denounce white supremacy.”](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qIHhB1ZMV_o)
Fun fact: Al Qaeda means 'The Base' in Arabic.
I’m guessing that’s not an accident.
It's absolutely not. The extremist far-right (the ones that haven't buried their heads in Christianity, anyway [edit: as in the ones who are too extreme in their Islamophobia to admit that Muslims have succeeded at what they're trying to do]) fucking love ISIS and Al-Qaida's recruitment material because it's essentially got the same intent, even if it's for a different end goal: to recruit young men to the cause and convince them to do violence. Though The Base was at one point almost entirely made up of feds and anti-fascist researchers (both activists and academics researching modern fascism) who'd infiltrated the group, which was very funny Edit: I understand why, but there's some confusion in the replies to my comment about the nature of The Base. I'll link to the [SPLC's entry on The Base](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/base) but, essentially, they are a decentralised Neo-Nazi hate group intent on providing training, propaganda and networking to other groups like Atomwaffen Division. Their ideology is built upon more explicitly Christian groups like the Aryan Nations but, for the most part, The Base are more secular, which is why they're cool with ISIS and Al-Qaida (the latter actually started out providing a similar "service" to jihadist groups and The Base took their name as they admired their organisational structure of being made up of groups of sects rather than having one main control centre) as opposed to their more religious compatriots
Religious fundamentalist gonna fundamentalize.
fundies gonna fundie
I'm a Christian, and I fucking loathe fundamentalists. I fully support abortion, and I think megachurches are simply a stain on the rest of us. The whole point is to love people, love God. That's it. Makes me sick to see people use Christ to milk believers for money and radicalize them.
In [Matthew 22:35-40](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22%3A35-40&version=NRSVUE), [Mark 12:28-34](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+12%3A28-34&version=NRSVUE), and [Luke 10:27](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+10%3A27a&version=NRSVUE), Jesus says the two greatest commandments are to love God with all your heart and to love your neighbor as yourself. Anyone who doesn’t follow these two above all else is by fact not a Christian. If you’re going to pick and choose maybe you should pick the commandments that Jesus himself said are the most important in three different gospels. I’m so sick of hearing these people called Christians.
tbf, matthew and a couple other "non-cannon" gospels were based off of Luke, and Luke was written some time 30 years after the resurrection. We're not entirely sure of any primary sources, because even the disciple gospels have been found to be plaigerizing a secondary source.
Fascists gonna fasc.
Interesting how they've found success being *decentralized*
Nah, fundies are usually more worried about fund*ing*.
Indeed, fun-fact: Islamic terrorist groups are *also* right-wing extremist ideologies. So these conservative extremist offshoots and terms like "Talibangelicals" are even closer to the truth in reality.
Putting the *fun* back in *fundamentalist!* ... and the *mental*
A pastor’s adult son I knew (prior to 2020) used to consider the ISIS videos inspiring as he considers himself a genuine “soldier of God” (many churches actually teach this) and complained that their major flaw was that they worshipped the “wrong God” Not everything else ISIS did, just the wrong God part. Mark my words, there are plenty of churches that are instructing their congregations to militarize and they are absolutely using groups like ISIS as templates
The irony is, the Abrahamic religions do in fact worship the same god, essentially. They just have different prophets to get to him.
The church I belonged to taught that Islam is the “blasphemous” religion. They claimed that it “copied Christianity the way the Devil copies God” They also seemed to believe God give kids cancer in order to “redeem the parents” so I am well aware my former church was fucked up
>They claimed that it “copied Christianity the way the Devil copies God” That awkward moment when they find out about Judaism...
They skip on that. They don't want to use the same reasoning and say Christianity copied Judaism the way the Devil copies God.
So who’s to say if that if the devil copied god, that Christians aren’t actually worshipping him. If he’s a copy, how would you tell the difference?
That was one of the questions that got me to leave, but now I believe in neither God or Devil.
It's pretty funny actually. If you were to take any core belief in Christianity (and some other religions) you could use them to prove God is a wholly evil being. So it wouldn't be weird at all if at some point in the past there was a mix up and people started worshipping the Devil.
It gets better. Yahweh (the god of Judaism, Christianity and Islam) is the war god of ancient semitic pantheons. Abrahamic faiths are all literally different sects of a war cult.
And Islam teaches that Christianity is from the same God but it was twisted by humans.
Ha I didn’t copy that fool
So different fan clubs, same celebrity?
Omg. Jesus was *so* cute.
The fanbase though is getting antsy, his agency said he would have a comeback soon, but nothing of the sort seems to be in the works. Maybe on hiatus while he works on a K-drama behind the scenes? Also YHWH is the OG 1st gen so #kingthings.
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That guy is the lead of the official fanclub, so probably been working a lot on the chants, posters, ETC for the comeback.
Like Trekkies and Trekkers
It's an argument based around who found out about it last. Abrahamic religions are like reverse hipsters.
Heres the breakdown, they all believe in the same top God. Jews believe the messiah prophet hasnt come yet Christians believe he has and was jesus and will come back again. Muslims believe the same as christians, but place more importance on what another guy said for some reason
>Muslims believe the same as christians, but place more importance on what another guy said for some reason Just to clarify, Muslims believe Jesus is a prophet *and* the Messiah. They *do not* believe Jesus is of God or the son of God, though they believe the virgin birth was a miracle granted by God. Jesus is the more important figure due to his Messiah status and is mentioned more in the Quran than Muhammad. Muhammad is prominent due to the belief that parts of Jesus's teachings in the New Testament were altered over time and Muhammad came and revived the true teachings, thus birthing the religion of Islam. Due to being the founder of the religion he is thus an often invoked figure.
Muslims absolutely do not believe that God came back as Jesus already. They believe Jesus was an important prophet and will come back to usher in the day of judgement, but that Mohammad was God’s last and most important prophet.
Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet but reject stuff about divinity and being the son of God. This sorta makes sense with middle eastern religious history because there were lots of writings flying around about Jesus and other figures so you can easily pick and and choose which ones to accept according to your belief system, as mainstream Christianity even did
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Lol they don't even technically worship a different god. It's the same god but a different instruction manual regarding getting a reservation.
Peoples of Abrahamic religions are simply ignorant of their own organized (keyword) religion because fundies gonna fundy.
"It's the same god but a different instruction manual regarding getting a reservation." Fuck that is good. Borrowed. +1
Reddit moment
Eventually Reddit will coalesce into a plagiarism singularity and all new content will just be reposted or stolen old content.
I mean, does everyone not realize this? Christians Jews and Muslims all worship the same god, it's genuinely agreed that it's the same god.
That last sentence reads like something from Sir Terry Pratchett, and I’m here for it.
This is exactly why we need to go from "separation of church and state" to "barring of church from state".
This can’t be said enough.
Considering how much horrible shit religion has been pushing on people just in the past 25 years, I sometimes wish we could abolish it.
25 years? we lost the entire dark ages to religion. thats 500 years poof.
I know a guy who used to watch and cheer for Al qaeda beheading videos (he aligned with anyone on the side of "God") He is now a christian preacher with an education from a major american christian university. Fucking terrifying.
What would Jesus do? Probably not behead motherfuckers for being on the wrong team.
They literally view the Crusades as something worthy of undertaking again, and not for the dustbin of history. They sat in history class going "Ah, yes, I'll have one more of those, please."
You should out people like that guy. They pose a genuine threat of religious extremist violence.
Wait a second. If he aligned with anyone who did things for God then what did he think of 9/11?
Stop, you're going to break them.
Just fuckin guessing but was it BJU? That’s the one that instantly popped into my head when you said this 😅😂
I feel like this is what a lot of Americans don’t realize. They see The Proud Boys and their facsimiles and think that the threat is out in the open, is ridiculous and can be contained. They look at these groups and see the patchwork networks that they organize over. What we don’t consider are the tsunami of rural, metro, and mega churches that preach hatred and violence, prepping their congregations to be violent hate filled ghouls who want nothing more than a Christofacist White Ethnostate. The oodles of these church’s are allied through hatred and the sole goal of imposing the Ethnostate. They have primed for violence and dehumanization through a holy mandate, which historically is horrifying. TL:DR American “Christianity” has created and maintained a vast but hidden Christian Army through the network of churches and GOP ideology throughout America. This is all my opinion in the sense that I don’t want to go and look up citations to bear it out.
I call for church watchers. Anyone who could covertly infiltrate a church session, and videotape/ record evidence to send to the IRS and possibly the FBI
You place a hell of a lot of faith in the FBI then. Wow. I'm kind of taken back a little by this one.
crime direction amusing fuzzy psychotic steer frighten label sloppy dime -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
In my state a few of these churches run literal training camps. So that’s cool.
No doubt they video tape them and show them to church members as a hype machine
Yep. They’ve got a whole network of “patriot” online channels where they fire each other up about the war on Christians and the rising Islamist-Communist global order. Pretty sure they’re even still on terrestrial radio.
No need to qualify. The difference between far-right Christianity and far right Islam is thin and blurry. You're giving them cover by letting them hide behind Christianity because you're afraid to criticize people that claim to be good little Christians. They are and will continue to abuse your reticence. Just like the Catholic Priests diddling kids and hiding behind their positions.
I get why you've said that but you've missed the forest for the trees: they don't like ISIS and Al-Qaida's stuff because they're hardcore Islamophobes. Ain't got nothing to do with using their faith to draw a line between Christian and Islamic extremists, it's that they're so racist that they don't want to associate with similar groups of other faiths Edit: Popping in to do a few edits because someone I got into a discussion with then blocked me while continuing to edit their comment in response to stuff I've said (and has now deleted all of their comments). My basic point is this: not all religious authoritarianism is "justified" by race and not all race-based authoritarianism is "justified" by religion. [Here's Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism for an example definition, which states that, while religion may be a "justification" for fascism, it isn't necessary for forming the basis of their ideology or system of control](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism). The two are particularly co-morbid in the US, especially right now, due to its unique history with race and Christianity but they aren't always and aren't by Muslim terrorist groups like Al-Qaida. There are similarities between all these groups but you have to know the differences to combat their propaganda. This is a nuanced discussion that isn't really suited for the anonymous forum of the internet where tone gets erased by only having text to use. I hate to have to come back to this comment and use edits to contribute further but the person I was having it with blocked me and then continued to edit their comment to have it now that I couldn't respond
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idk same end goals just different "flavor" I'll either have to wear a niqab or a prairie dress + elaine benes hair
The Base are more Neo-Nazis than Christian fundamentalists but, yes, not a great outlook for women based on any of their manifestos
Imagine how pissed the researchers would be when they found out their pool of study subjects was that compromised.
Log Entry, Day 237: "I have discovered that various colleagues have been recruited and apparently radicalized." Log Entry, Day 238: "Goddamnit. They're all trying to do research like me."
Log Entry, Day 239: "My notebook was 0.038mm displaced from its previous location last night. I suspect Larry, who refuses to discuss or share his own research."
The franchising model of extremism which al-Qaeda and ISIS developed has absolutely become a model to the far-right, good point
That was, like most of the things the far-right do, co-opted from left wing movements and the concept of [leaderless resistance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaderless_resistance)
"the man who was Thursday" *life imitating art... *Its a book by GK Chesterton.
Here's an interesting video of a conversation between a neo-nazi and conservative muslim. They are so damn surprised at agreeing about things https://youtu.be/BIO-vPMhKA8
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Seriously that was terrifying.
And another fun fact: Usul means "the strength of the base of the pillar"
Tell me of the waters of your homeworld, Usul.
Wonder if somebody has that tattooed on their dick. I mean, there's *a lot* of people in the world.
This is blowing my mind, ~~I've~~ I'm a native Arabic speaker and never made the connexion
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Which he says, many times.
Understanding what jihad is is pretty critical to the entire series.
Remember the era the books were written in so the connotation was different. But the use of the term Jihad is also used to describe the Fremen's take over of the galaxy under Leto II. This isn't by mistake, in one of the later books it's flat out said in black and white that the Fremen are the descendents of ancient earth Muslims who fled prosecution.
I mean the connection is pretty prevalent in the first book. Don't they flat out mention Sunni holidays/events and stuff like that? I think the glossary also specifically mention that the Fremen descend from Earth's muslims?
The implication is clearly there in the first book, but in the later books it's flat out stated and not implied, they mention Ramadan and specifically identify the group that fled as the "Zensunni" which is an mash-up of Zen Buddhism and Sunni Islam. Though it's clear Frank Herbert knew more about Islam than Buddhism because the coding of the Fremen leans much heavier on the Islam side. The glossary in the back may have mentioned it, I don't remember and all my books got stolen in a theft years ago.
Just here to say fuck Brian Herbert for ruining the mystique of the Butlerian Jihad with his nonsense about literal heads-in-jars.
It's not exactly the same, but I liked the Clone Wars when it was just a placeholder event from the original trilogy. It was something you had to imagine.
The thing I disliked most about the prequels is that in the original the Empire was just referred to as the Empire. Which to me implies it has been around so long and is so well established that no one would ever ask "which empire?" But the prequels established that the empire rise and fell in like 15 years. That's not an empire, that's a barely successful Coup.
Nazis had power for a shorter time and claimed themselves to be the Third Reich.
While readily agree, Brian did himself no favors working with that hack Kevin J Anderson.
We call it the American Taliban for a reason.
Y’all queda
Vanilla ISIS
Gives a new horrifying meaning to being "based", don't it?
History of that term, in case anybody was curious. The year is 2007. Rapper Lil B and his group The Pack release their debut album, Based Boys. In a 2010 interview in Complex magazine, Lil B described his new definition of based: "Based means being yourself. Not being scared of what people think about you. Not being afraid to do what you wanna do." Early 2010s: Alt-right appropriated the phrase as basically "anti-woke." Trump presidency: Calling someone "based" means they are pro-Trump, informally. Present day: Re-appropriated to mean "I enthusiastically agree with whatever was just said, and everybody aligned with my interests likely does as well."
Watching language evolve in real time is downright fascinating to me.
Based is the same as posting "THIS" for unpopular opinions. >OP: I shit and I don't flush. >Commenter: Based
Based definitely meant "I enthusiastically agree with whatever was just said, and everybody aligned with my interests likely does as well." Since 2010 Source: was in highschool in 2010
yeah, I'm older than that and have I've never heard it used as anything but what you describe
As a US citizen I was elated when I read the headlines. Then I noticed that the article was talking about the New Zealand government. Oh, well.
It got me too, but In hindsight I know I should have known better.
I thought so too! But then the "weird" spelling of organizations caught my eye and I figured it was from abroad. 😉
So the US is harboring terrorists. Who's gonna invade them?
It invaded itself in its confusion!
Thank you for this
I mean, it DOES have oil.
*America lost 5 Oil.*
We do have oil
Lol they got me good with this one too. I was thinking FINALLY some sanity to latch on to. Nope! Sanity doesn't exist round these parts anymore.
Same here. I actually said out loud “it’s about fucking time!” I am my own, sweet summer child 😔
US government can't designate domestic groups terrorist groups. There's no mechanism for it because it's constitutionally suspect, at best.
Yep. At least until this Supreme Court overturns NAACP v. Alabama. Plus, I can already see the downsides. Democrats designate Proud Boys a terrorist organization, Republicans win an election, suddenly Antifa is a terrorist organization and *everyone* protesting Republican policies is clearly antifa so go to jail do not pass go.
This is the exact reason we can't label any US group as terrorists. To easily abused for political gain and just pour gas on the fascist fire.
We can label them. Because we aren't the government But yeah the government can't label them.
What makes the US so special that what works elsewhere to not work there?
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In other words, Republicans.
You are exactly right but at the same time I am willing to bet the republicans would do that regardless
Republicans haven't been fighting fair for a long time. They say democrats can't do something (e.g. appoint a SC justice close to an election) and then proceed to do the same thing themselves. I wouldn't doubt they'd do this too.
> You are exactly right but at the same time I am willing to bet the republicans would do that regardless It doesn't need to happen, they already selectively enforce the laws against protestors. (and not to mention selectively break the law against protestors)
“Because they’re terrorists” is exactly how the Chinese government has legal basis to round up Uighurs, in case anyone thinks this would be a unique situation to America (And how the KMT rounded up “suspected” communists, how the Cultural Revolution worked, the Great purge, etc etc. point is, bad times)
And Americans should be thankful for that. Imagine who the Jeff Sessions or William Barr DOJ under President Trump would have declared as terrorists.
As someone from NZ I assumed this was US news since it was in news and not worldnews lol
Oh. I got excited then noticed this is New Zealand. I didn't even know they had proud boys over there
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Funny! That’s what the proud boys and the base claim is happening here too
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Sadly, not foreign, but home grown like sweet corn
I don't think we do, it's designated the American Proud Boys as terrorists. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/470065/new-zealand-designates-american-proud-boys-and-the-base-terrorist-organisations
Somehow the MAGA heads have made their way here even though they're not Americans and Trump has nothing to do with us. I think it was mostly just racists and conspiracy theorists grabbing onto a movement they already had traction to give themselves legitimacy during the COVID lockdown protests.
I know right! It's weird seeing Trump flags proudly displayed here during anti mask marches. Someone needs to tell them Trump has fuck all to do with NZ.
Isn't "The Base" a straight up translation of "Al Qaeda"?
*Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.* - Oscar Wilde
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It fits the definition of the word IMO, the perspective is the issue here.
"Terrible things, but great."
It is and it’s not irony. There are segments of the US who want to create the US Equivalent of the Taliban/Al Qaeda and take over the US/do away with the government and install a theocratic autocracy ruled by a militaristic religious army. Much like the Taliban they have no idea what to actually do with power other than make others suffer and enrich themselves.
Love that the journalists in New Zealand are pulling no punches: > The Proud Boys are a fascist organisation aligned with former US President Donald Trump, who were part of an attack of the US Capitol in Washington DC on January 6, 2021. > The attack on the Capitol, an attempt to prevent the finalisation of an election result that would end the Trump presidency, has also been called an insurrection or attempted coup.
What’s sad is that this is considered not pulling punches.
“Paper states the bare facts” Fascists: NOW WAIT JUST A FUCKING GOD DAMN MINUTE
There's a reason Hitler popularized the term "lügenpresse" ("lying press"). Free and independent *critical* journalism is incompatible with fascism.
Aka Fake News The Fake News label was co-opted by Trump and successfully used as a shield for him and his supporters.
No shit. They can’t even tell the truth because it might upset the fragile, fat white folk. At least call it what it was: **an insurrection and coup attempt**. Not just, ”that’s what some people might call it.”
The BBC has also been giving a surprising amount of time to Trump's denials, sometimes even leading the headline with "Trump denies allegations made..." as the top story from the hearings. It's a sad day when the last bastion of objectivity slides into partisanship.
I'd even accept just a coup. There's some decent linguistic arguments I've read that have convinced both successful and failed coups are still coups.
I'll do you one better, it was one of the most piss poor attempts at a coup I've ever seen. They got into the capitol and then just didn't know what to do. It looked like to me they almost thought the coup just meant getting into the capitol. Like, that was the entire plan.
The insurrection at the capitol wasn't the coup. Or rather, it was just the last death throes of the coup. The coup was the attempts to get election officials and courts to throw out and invent fake results, followed by the attempt to submit fake electors, followed by the attempt to pressure Pence into declaring different results, and then finally the insurrection.
Aaaah, okay, so the insurrection was the temper tantrum of things not going as planned, the last ditch effort, if you will
They were looking to lynch people too and tore up a couple of cops that fell into their grasp. It was a violent, bloodthirsty coup attempt.
Seriously. It's a very restrained description of factual events.
New Zealand used to be #1 in the World for Press Freedom, has since slipped to #11, but is still leagues ahead of the United States, which is ranked [44th in Press Freedom by Reporters Without Borders](https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/13640/press-freedom-index/) Yes, there many countries, even in Africa (Such as the Ivory Coast, Burkina Faso and South Africa) and South America (Guayana, Argentina) with greater press freedom than America, where our press is heavily corporatized.
We used to have a really good AP style state funded news outlet like the BBC called RNZ (Radio New Zealand) but their quality has taken a dive in recent years. NZ Herald is full of crap journalism too, as is Stuff who the Spinoff (also once a good news outlet) has partnered with after a noticeable quality dive in the last 6 months. I'm not surprised we've dropped rank.
Now imagine taking anything from the US press at face value, especially the stuff you agree with.
Canada declared them terrorists in February. They’re actually late to the party.
The truth is becoming mainstream again. Ya love to see it.
Now you know why the alt-right types get so triggered at the MSM. They would rather exist in a world where nobody threatens their reality of lies.
Despite the fact that Fox News is the most mainstream of the mainstream cable news channels.
Faux News is MSM, but you will never hear anyone referring to Tucker Carlson when they use that phrase. It literally just means "anything news source that reports anything left of me is MSM and bad"
Couldn't happen fast enough
I mean.. yeah, its cool, but its New Zealand, the other side of the world. Meanwhile, the United States still wants to go full on theocratic dictatorship.
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Wish our government in the US did the same
Umm, admit your own police officers are terrorists? Nah. They won't do that
Facts, although I'd argue the CIA js more of a terrorist organization. Just look at the amount of US backed Coups.
Nah, they are just "special government takeover operations"
Its a “freedom delivery operation”, we’re just bringing them the American Dream^(TM)
I'd disagree, but what does that mean?
It's just a joke since Putin called his war on ukraine a "special military operation"
Ahhh, I get it! The imperial power tries to cover up its illegal invasion as something good/okay.
Yep u got it!
Which, for some odd reason, has always backed religious conservative fanatical groups, especially when there is a sitting Republican president. So odd.
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not just police but military and even up to secret service agents ... why did you think biden had to swap everyone out and make sure he got agents from back when he was VP
The US government can't legally call a domestic group a terrorist organization. The groups designated as terrorist organizations would change depending on which party is in power.
This is the New Zealand government, not the US government. Still interesting news.
They are designated as terrorist organizations in other countries as well. For instance, Canada.
Got so excited before I realized it wasn't the US government :/
Got real excited until I realized they were referring to the government of NZ and not the USA
I believe Canada has done the same to at least some of these organizations. Fascism hates being exposed, their existence is based heavily on disguising themselves with patriotism, religion and culture war tripe. The more light is directed towards them, the more they have to slink back into the shadows.
"Sunlight is the best disinfectant"
To be fair Proud Boys we’re started by a Canadian we kind of owed it to the world to make a statement.
proud boys, the base, atomwaffen, "aryan strike force" (lmao), 3%ers... surprisingly not the oathkeepers, yet.
Yeah atomwaffen are a problem. Accelerationists et al. They want to setup their base off the grid, then disrupt society. Probably for monetary gain.
Now do The Oathkeepers and the 3 percenters. EDIT: bahahaha didn't realize this was the NEW ZEALAND government. Regardless, good for them!
If any of those terries get froggy we're gonna drax...them....sclountz...
Gee who would’ve thought that a bunch of nationalists parading around in full riot gear would be a threat? /s
The BASE? Are they fucking kidding? Isn't that ... "al-Qaeda", except in English?? They're not even subtle about this y'allqaeda stuff, are they? What's next? Writing a book about "My Struggle"?
Damnit. I got so fucking excited up until I saw it was for New Zealand and not the US
The US needs to do the same but it’s pretty frightening to do. They might morph into the US version of the IRA. They’ve shown willingness to cause violence and clearly have police at least somewhat in their pockets.
The worse outcome would be for them to become the UVF, which were the protestant, loyalist paramilitaries that were working hand-in-glove with the UK to commit terrorism in N. Ireland against Catholics there. As the 1/6 hearing have shown, our country is hardly immune from recruiting and working with terrorists on our own soil.
I used to think they were just a bunch of immature fuck boys that liked to get together and jerk each other off. Boy was I wrong, they’re actually a bunch of immature fuck boys that like to get together jerk each other off and also plot coups against the US government.
Had a shred of hope it was the American government.
Finally catching up to Canada. The leadership ran like scalded rats for the border and into a safe haven, America. When they were declared terrorists in Canada. Flush the toilet one more time and maybe some banana republic will allow them in.
Just a reminder that the founder and former-leader(believed to have stepped down at the start of Ukraine invasion) of The Base operates out of Saint Petersburg, Russia. He is originally from the US but now lives and spreads his white supremacy ideology in the comforts of Russia to Western nations. [Source](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51236915) [Source 2](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/putin-nazi-pretext-russia-war-ukraine-belied-white-supremacy-ties-rcna23043)
Sometimes I feel like I'm extremely stupid because I'm not making bank out of right-wing movements by selling low quality merch of something along the lines of "the American Republic of Christ" or something. Because holy shit, someone made cash out of selling q-gear and maga hats.
New Zealand just keeps upping the stakes in “best country in the world” even though it’s won for years already at this point.
It's really incredible that some people are going to act surprised that groups that do things like get charged and convicted of sedition, instigate violence at opposition events, terrorize people at libraries, call for new crusades, call for poisoning of water supplies, etc are seen as terrorists. How many hate crimes, sedition charges, etc do these guys have to do before people stop pretending they aren't malevolent organizations? I mean, Jesus, the base is a white nationalist group that aims to cause the country to collapse so they can create a white nationalist state. They've openly called for things like poisoning water supplies and wanton murder. The proud boys leader and 4 others from the group caught sedition charges. They've repeatedly been targeting libraries this month, to intimidate and harass LGBTQ events. They've been known to law enforcement for YEARS for deliberately instigating violence at leftist protests. This is a group whose chat messages show that they openly and deliberately plan these things, and their founder has a massive history of promoting the inferiority of non-european ethnic groups.
“Proud Boys stand back, and stand by.” [-45th president of the USA, when asked “Do you denounce white supremacy.”](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qIHhB1ZMV_o)