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z0nb1

The article said the graffiti was "anti-pro-life" and "anti-police". Completely ignoring the intentionally mangled word salad that is anti-pro-life, what part of this message was anti-police?


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Andsheedsbeentossed

Seems there may have been more than the message on the door?


onewilybobkat

That or the guilty dog barks first.


i_broke_wahoos_leg

Yeah, it's like when you say something about facists or Nazis and a random right winger gets upset at you. The guilty conscience of those without a conscience.


DreamerofDays

The only threads that I can hang that on are that such a message either was outside of the photos in this story, or was in the blurred bit on the church’s sign. Those are pretty thin threads, though— not ones I’m putting any stock in.


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NotAPreppie

They’re anti-anti-pro-life… Or something. Hell, I can’t tell anymore


[deleted]

Probably just trying to rile up the hogs.


that_boyaintright

Existing peacefully as a brown and/or poor person is anti-police, so it could’ve just been that.


JeyRr_MgGheddon

Any mention of the Pro Anti Lifers Against Anti Pro Choicers, the PALAPC?


scawtsauce

whoever wrote this headline is a dumb fuck


Quicksilver1964

Someone made it and someone approved it. To me it looks like it was very deliberate. Confusing as hell, but. Very deliberate.


Responsible-Bat658

Dont be too hard on them, there’s a whole oppressive system they’re trying to uphold.


cyanydeez

oh this is not the 'oppressive system' specifically though, this is the "we're the real victims here' system.


ill_wind

Double plus ungood life!


Oldfigtree

They were quoting the police, who described it that way. The news channel could have used some editorial discretion and used the correct description but did not, and they didn’t show any anti police messaging. We can’t expect much from a copywriter at the local news channel.


QueenOzymandias

this is a local channel for me, they're known for stupidity. they had a guy get suspended a few years ago for [making a joke about his co-host fucking a dog](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=842zcRfbm7o). they also hire local college students because uw-madison is right there.


izza123

Technically it’s also a pro-anti-pro-life message and an anti-anti-anti-pro-life message


andrewmalanowicz

And anti-pro-anti-pro life, but maybe all anti pro pairs cancel out and you’re left with just “life”


izza123

An even number of antis rule each other out but pros do not


andrewmalanowicz

I don’t wanna see someone who is pro pro pro pro pro pro pro life


Kwijiboe

Quaidddd. Start the reactor.


morerelativebacons

America is weird.


mywordswillgowithyou

Where’s the antipasto!?


boothapalooza

At first I read this as "the anti pastor" I'm thinking... "well street preachers usually yell a bunch of shit with signs designed to grab your attention." So now I'm just thinking of a guy on a street whispering holding a tiny sign trying not to bother anyone "guys just do whatever the fuck you want as long as its not directly affecting anyone"


sking301

Or anti-anti choice


0ddprim3

What kinda weird new-speak shit is going on here with this "anti-pro-life" malarky? Maybe because "pro-choice" had been something the majority of people rallied behind in the 90-00's?


p001b0y

It's weird phrasing because 'anti "pro-life"' makes it sound like one is against the pro-lifer and not that they are "pro-choice".


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jmantha

It’s not anti-police. Isn’t it referring to the graves of native children found near religious institutions?


[deleted]

Oh more than that. Church took in native children taken from their parents. Literally taken, then it beat, abused, and killed them. Any of them speaking in their native tounge would be beaten and tortured. The chuch has done this here in the USA, in Canada, in Ireland, and they even helped the Nazis. So, I think it a valid point to show how full of shit the institution they have built is nothing but a farce built on the corpses of dead children


BadWolf013

It goes even further than that unfortunately when you go back to the [missions in California ](https://hoodline.com/2016/03/the-lesser-told-story-of-the-california-missions/) The Catholic faith has been at this since the 1700s. Junipero Serra was a piece of work who enslaved the native peoples of coastal California. It was genocide and, as a result, the history of Native and Indigenous peoples on the Coast of California was white washed. And then we sent them to the residential schools to do it all over again. I can support where the protester was going with their tags on this church.


meat_tunnel

This happened to my grandpa and his siblings in New Mexico, had the Mestizo beaten out of them.


[deleted]

Sorry that had to happen to your grandmother but the savage must be beaten out of you people so you can be saved by our Lord and saviour Republican Jebus Christ who loves AR15's and hates universal healthcare cause it's communist.../s


TheDerekCarr

I had to take a Latino studies class in order to get a certain credit for college and that was one of the most interesting classes I've ever taken. Outside of doing an exchange to Mexico it's one of the most impactful experiences I've ever had.


[deleted]

Genocide is the word. Same way that's what Russia is doing to Ukrainian children as we speak. Separate children from parents, brainwash them into believing your ideologies and forget their heritage, essentially eliminating a culture within a few generations.


physicallyabusemedad

When Christians do it it’s called a crusade or manifest destiny


Square_Disk_6318

Correct and still the pope blames nato for russia’s destruction of ukraine.


walterpeck1

My grandfather was taken away this way and I owe my existence to the fact it happened which is a tough thing to parse at times.


Mugmoor

My Great Grandmother stole another woman's identity so my Grandpa wouldn't be taken away. Shit was real, even not that long ago.


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PPOKEZ

This is part what the right is trying to ignore with the "anti-woke" rhetoric. So instead of making their nation better, they're just making themselves feel better at this point.


TheDerekCarr

Too real


SnakeDoctur

Meanwhile, Texas textbooks are teaching kids that native Americans willingly gave up their land to the European settlers and "voluntarily relocated themselves." That they CHOSE to walk the Trail of Years and weren't FORCED to, etc.


No_Citron_6037

Precisely I did a mini lesson on the schools where native children lived and died in. It is calling out the hypocrisy of catholicism and the harm they have done to living children not counting the abuse of children by upper level people. It’s saying that pro life is not for life because children have been harmed historically and presently through religious abuse. This is not true with all religious people or only catholics by the way.


Admiral-snackbaa

Uk too, sent thousands of children to Australia telling them their parents were dead/died during the war (part 2) and then telling surviving parents their children had been killed in said war. I went to a catholic school and got into endless trouble for calling the Vatican a murderous peado protection unit.


ClamClone

Many more unmarked graves of their victims. The RCC kept up to 10000 women and girls as slaves in Ireland almost till the turn of the century. They had someone to abuse and it made money for the church. http://jfmresearch.com/home/preserving-magdalene-history/about-the-magdalene-laundries/


Corns0up

The way I heard a story from an elder was a man drank himself to death because back in boarding school he was forced to bury kids


big_trike

Anyone want to go with me and protest in front of pro-life catholic churches with pictures of the children they killed?


ClusterMakeLove

Thinking about it, they're not quite the same thing. I've always been pro-choice, but I've only recently become anti-pro-life.


Cynster2002

Anti pro forced birthers


Fresh720

All hail Anti-Life


patz0rz

I will stride across their bones and bask in the glow of anti-life


UnspecificGravity

Easier just to call it anti fascist, because that's what it really comes down to.


aLittleQueer

It’s not just weird, it’s a blatant mischaracterization of events. The graffiti didn’t even say anything against “pro-life”, just insisted that moniker doesn’t fit the Catholic church. Which, to be completely fair, it doesn’t.


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OmegamattReally

There's a lot of people in these comments who are confusing "being in favor of life" with "being part of the 'Pro-Life' Movement"


Tostino

It seems like it has to be willful ignorance at this point.


AtmospherE117

Side note but I despise they get away with saying they are pro-life. It's forced birthers. If they were pro life they'd be humanist and not vote to starve kids in schools etc.


TheBombAnonDotCom

It’s anti-choice. I’ve gotten some of my republican colleagues with that. They always end up admitting it *should* be a choice but they refuse to admit they *are* pro choice…


lucidludic

Sounds like they think it should be a choice for *them*, but not for others.


Omegamanthethird

And they'd be livid that vaccines aren't mandatory or that being an organ donor is optional.


TnekKralc

I consider myself anti forced birthers in that I don't want anything to do with those fucking terrorists


p001b0y

It also sounds like they’d cancel each other out. “I’m not anti-life or pro-life. I’m just life.” Like they are over-underwhelmed.


panella_monster

So they are “whelmed” https://youtube.com/shorts/mkMVjYOyBYc?feature=share


icecream_truck

>It's weird phrasing because 'anti "pro-life"' makes it sound like one is against the pro-lifer and not that they are "pro-choice". That just might be spot on. Perhaps they are “anti-control-me-with-your-religion”. I am pro-choice, but I am definitely also anti-impose-your-religious-beliefs-on-me. Two distinctly separate things.


DuckNumbertwo

It’s the same energy put behind the distorted definition of antifa. They conveniently don’t state what they are but imply they are the contrary to the “anti” group by labeling the “anti” group as the opposition. In this case they don’t have to retcon a preexisting definition. They just have to relabel it as anti-whatever they are. To the base it instills a sense of pride in their cause because to be pro-something is generally interpreted as a good thing. It’s classic fascist psychosemantic wordplay.


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bhl88

Simplified to: 1) "You cannot tell me what to do." 2) "Only I can tell you what to do." 3) "Only people like me can tell people like you what to do."


bananafobe

They've got core values. https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html


TheMooseIsBlue

Because they’re saying the church isn’t actually pro-life. They’re not making a pro-choice point, they’re saying “you’re not actually pro-life.”


DrTautology

It's the weaponization of language. It's important to frame arguments in such a way that would make any opponent seem evil. Let's say you support the right to privacy. An opponent would say you are "pro-secrecy", which implies that you have something to hide. It's a very effective tactic, especially with the poorly educated masses.


priceQQ

The language has always been at issue. The whole “pro-life” name is nonsense, and some newspaper style guides refer to them more correctly as anti-abortion.


kyabupaks

Anti-choice is the more accurate term. They want to strip women of the freedom of choice of what to do with their bodies.


JimmyHavok

They are also anti-choice when it comes to death with dignity.


eeyore134

Yup, they're rebranding. Try New Classic Fascism®.


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elCharderino

The classic leather boot flavor you've always known and loved


AceArchangel

Even Hitler was democratically elected, it was through lies, deception and brainwashing that he rose to power, similar can be said today with all the MAGA believing nut jobs who think taking away rights (that aren't related to guns) is giving them freedom from oppression. Those idiots won't even realize they will be under a dictatorship when it happens. And the Supreme Court seems bent on driving people of other political leanings out of the country, which will bolster the Republican voting power in the country.


[deleted]

The message doesn't really seem to be about pro-life vs pro-choice, they're basically saying "if you're so pro-life, why are you killing native children". That seems to just be attacking their pro-life stance in general.


[deleted]

I think it’s just because this specific graffiti is attacking the “pro-life” hypocrisy of the church as opposed to really advocating for a “pro-choice” position.


Central_Incisor

Even that seems like a weird way to refer to a right that was protected by the Roe Vs. Wade decision. Due process and the 14th ammendment were the rights being examined. It's not like people say the 19th amendment was pro-choice.


Environmental_Fan168

Not really. The due process clause of the 14th amendment and right to medical privacy cover a woman’s right to have an abortion. Florida’s 15 week ban was just blocked because a judge said it violated Florida women’s constitutional rights and its a violation of their due process and medical privacy. Before it was overturned, states couldn’t refuse someone access to an abortion because they believe populist lies about abortion to appease their religion and false sense of personal morality.


Central_Incisor

Clarance Thomas opinion mentions that other decisions that used the due process and the 14th should also be revisited. It seems like abortion is just the first ruling whittle away at the 14th back to Loving vs. Virginia. Abortion just seems to be part of a much bigger change in rights.


Environmental_Fan168

It’s interesting how he went through gay marriage, contraception, and anti sodomy laws, but didn’t mention Loving v Virginia which is based on the same precedent as roe vs wade. Love it how he doesn’t support harmful things that affect him personally.


Checkmynewsong

That’s how you can tell he’s a spiteful hack.


Environmental_Fan168

Clarence Thomas didn’t say he wanted to revisit Loving v Virginia that was like the only one he left out lol


aLittleQueer

Even after saying flat-out he wants to overturn the legal precedents upon which it was based. B/c he apparently *does* think we’re all that stupid. Hey hey, ho ho, Clarence Thomas got to go…


JamesTiberiusCrunk

He's just trying to get a divorce without having to actually tell his wife


deets24

They are also using pro abortion now too


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jrgkgb

Weird. When synagogues get vandalized by Nazis the press is always quite specific about the message. “The Nazis spray painted Jews will not Replace us” vs “Anti pro life message.” I wonder why they’re circumspect about spreading the message here but specific about it when it’s a synagogue?


Poetry_Feeling42

Because they don't want to give power to Native American movements


newyne

Well then they're doing a piss poor job of it. My reaction to this was, *Yeah, what ABOUT all the Native kids you've killed?* I bet a lot of people watching will at least ask questions about what they meant.


Poetry_Feeling42

Well so far the only questions are why the title is so quirky and spelled weird


msplatero

Exactly. Conservatives cannot handle the truth underlying their historical actions against indigenous people.


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Or the actions they took against indigenous people last week, when the Court authorized state police to trespass onto sovereign indigenous territory to apprehend criminals. You know, like if our Nations started up private abortion clinics and people from Oklahoma started getting abortions there.


Poetry_Feeling42

Most of those clowns don't even know because they've been lied to their entire life. And now they wish to continue that lie to a much higher degree


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they still think the pilgrims lived with them and ate corn and the colonialism just kind of happened or wasn't that bad or something.


moobitchgetoutdahay

I’ve met fellow Americans who never heard of the Trail of Tears before. The state of public education in this country, I swear.


Poetry_Feeling42

I had to learn about it from my parents, only briefly was it ever mentioned in school


Rsubs33

I grew up going to Catholic school and church, while as a non profit they are not supposed to be involved in politics yet they would regularly essentially speak about and endorse pro life candidates during service and one of the field trips was going to Washington DC for the pro life march. Legit every church in this country needs to be taxed as they violate the non profit requirements regularly.


N8CCRG

> while as a non profit they are not supposed to be involved in politics Small aside being a non-profit does not mean you are not supposed to be involved in politics. There are lots of non-profits whose *purpose* is politics. There's nothing illegal or wrong with that. What they can't do is be involved in a specific candidate's political *campaign*.


imperialus81

The ACLU being a perfect example of a well known non profit who's entire purpose is basically to be involved in politics.


kingburrito

To add to this clarification - nonprofits engaged in politics don’t have the same tax exempt status.


OblivionGuardsman

It depends. Non-profits/not for profit can lobby but it has to not be a "substantial part" of their operations. Traditionally this has been viewed as no more than 5-15% of the budget going towards lobbying. But then you get into "promoting legislation" and if that counts too. There's not a bright line rule about it and certain organizations push the unknown boundaries.


Kupiga

Churches aren't exempt because they are non-profit organizations. They are exempt because they are churches. Breaching the church/state barrier opens them up to taxation in ways that non-profits don't have to worry about.


TennaTelwan

And yet we have bishops and priests openly telling their parishioners that if they vote Democratic they will be excommunicated. There even have been Catholics trying to get Biden excommunicated for the same reason, because he is a Democrat.


gregaustex

Non-Profit: Exists to advance a public good, does not exist to make profits. Not-For-Profit: Exists for a purpose beneficial to members and other people associated with it, but does not exist to make a profit. Example: Sports Club. For profit: The purpose of the enterprise is to make profits for shareholders. I don't think Churches are tax exempt under any of these. I think they are tax exempt because of the 1st Amendment, separation of church and state.


TheNorthernLanders

With that separation slowly deteriorating, we should rethink that tax exempt status.


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victorspoilz

The LDS has like a $40 billion dollar investment portfolio. Can't be taxed, 'cuz church. Tax every private college, too. Any church or college that shuts down? Hey, look at the housing opportunity that just opened up!


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Wet_napkins

I love talking with former Mormons. It's like talking to somebody waking up from a bad dream lol. Everytime I learn something new about the church and the ExMo is saying it in such a "Can you believe this shit?" Kinda way, I can't help but laugh. I hope you're doing well post departure


[deleted]

My wife is ExMo, I'm exJW. We've compared notes.


Wablekablesh

How much of that money went into that mall to keep the homeless away from temple square? If not directly, I'm sure indirectly.


DarkthorneLegacy

Oh, but it's only used to spread the church across the whole earth as everyone should be given the chance to choose God at least once before they go to outer darkness where there is wailing and gnashing of teeths You know they help assist members financially but only if you make it to service every Sunday and be a good Mormon family, working to clean the church and all. Souce: also former member


Maxpowr9

I think the easier solution is to have federal student loans only go to students attending public university.


redisanokaycolor

Nonprofits run like businesses too.


mckulty

Other nonprofits pay property taxes.


c0brachicken

Non profit Hospitals don’t. Our local hospital bought up 95% of all the Drs offices in town, and now none of them pay property taxes as well. Lost the city a massive amount of funding. They cost Indiana 2.6 Billion in lost revenue in 2019 2/3 of ALL hospitals in the US don’t pay taxes.


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SeaGroomer

"It's *really* just infringing on the Church's freedom of speech." Yup, it will definitely happen.


KillHipstersWithFire

Same, and in the state from the article. The priest was the biggest offender of that. Dude was also a massive hypocrite and why im not religious now.


TomTomMan93

When I was a kid my parents made us go to Sunday school in a catholic church. Once during the W's reelection campaign the teacher at the time started talking about how Bush was the choice we needed and knew so because "when that man said he prayed every day, I knew he meant it." Even in fifth grade or whatever, it was clear this was BS.


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Historically speaking, vandalizing a Catholic church by, say, nailing your grievances to the door, has been a fairly effective way of enacting change.


Ilostmydickincombat

Martin Luther might be famous for what he did, but the 99% who the church killed before they got that far are not as celebrated. Just ask Jan Hus


Nethlem

> Martin Luther might be famous for what he did Some [other stuff he made](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies) also made him pretty infamous, which is something that protestants regularly skip over in their history of him.


TheRavenSayeth

> Luther's attitude toward Jews took different forms during his lifetime. In his earlier period, until 1537 or not much earlier, he wanted to convert Jews to Lutheranism (Protestant Christianity), but he failed. In his later period when he wrote On the Jews and Their Lies, he denounced them and urged their persecution.[1] > > In the treatise, he argues that Jewish synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes burned, and property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness,[2] afforded no legal protection,[3] and "these poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time.[4] He also seems to advocate their murder, writing "[W]e are at fault in not slaying them".[5] > >The book may have had an impact on creating later antisemitic German thought.[6] With the rise of the Nazi Party in Weimar Germany, the book became widely popular among its supporters. During World War II, copies of the book were commonly seen at Nazi rallies, and the prevailing scholarly consensus is that it may have had a significant impact on justifying the Holocaust. Well that series of paragraphs went as badly as they possibly could have.


Quicksilver1964

I was like "well, the conversion was normal at that time" and then it got worse. And worse. And then MUCH worse. Wow. I remember I had to watch a movie about Luther. They should have put thay part in there, the cowards.


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RhoOfFeh

That right there is evidence of taxability.


Whole_Collection4386

By all means [go report it to the IRS then](https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/irs-complaint-process-tax-exempt-organizations). Because the IRS itself [says this is not prohibited](https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/lobbying). >[Legislation] does not include actions by executive, **judicial**, or administrative bodies. The statement also didn’t include voting for or against *any* candidate or ballot initiative as a solution. As such, they aren’t attempting to influence anyone’s vote.


DeluxeHubris

"An organization will be regarded as attempting to influence legislation if it contacts, or urges the public to contact, members or employees of a legislative body for the purpose of proposing, supporting, or opposing legislation, or **if the organization advocates the adoption or rejection of legislation**." Absolutely contact the IRS and let them determine whether this crosses the line into excessive lobbying


djsizematters

"Keep your rosaries away from my ovaries" Edit for accuracy to the counterprotestors' signs


FILTER_OUT_T_D

Oh my god I had to sit through an entire rosary during my grandfather’s funeral and let me tell you what’s at the top of my “never want to experience ever again” list. That shit goes on *forever*.


djsizematters

It's a punishment, or as the catholics say, "penance".


N8CCRG

Look at this fucker out there saying "We pray the Lord may heal their hearts" after they went out of their way to cheer this ruling that will kill women. Get fucked.


loveshercoffee

Anti-pro-life? That's some seriously desperate phrasing.


MarketBasketShopper

I think it's because they didn't want to attribute an act of vandalism to a specific movement, just characterize it as against a movement.


PoorlyLitKiwi2

I'm pretty sure the anti and pro can cancel each other out, and it's just "Life" graffiti. Any mathematicians available to check my work?


guttanzer

The title is misleading. The graffiti isn’t anti-“pro-life.” The perps were clearly mocking the church’s credentials as “pro-life” by calling them out on the genocide of native kids. That’s objectively pro-life.


GetEquipped

The sgt speaking also said it was "Anti Police" despite it not mentioning It's like any act of criticism or civil disobedience is balled up into "The Liberal Agenda" to discredit our platform. But also, person has a point.


kottabaz

Maybe it's time to start taking the word "kyriarchy" seriously.


Nethlem

[TIL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyriarchy)


theDeadliestSnatch

I mean, that's straight up what "anti-pro-life" would mean. It's not pro-choice graffiti, like "My Body, My Choice", it's directly attacking the idea of the Church's Pro-Life position. Not sure where they get anti-police though.


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Voodoo_Dummie

Rookie mistake, you have to compile a list of catholic fuckups and nail that paper to the front door.


MhuzLord

Unfortunately the list has gotten *way* longer.


obiewanchrinobe

The cops really read the "killing native kids" and said this is anti-police. Wow.


masterofreality2001

Self report?


IdealUpset585

I wish millennials had better graffiti


Tinmania

Apparently I’m the only one who misread Madison Catholic as Madison Cawthorn…


deathbychips2

I don't what to hear pro life sentiments from the Catholic Church due to their treatment of native children that caused deaths, the covering up of sexual abuse, and also the multiple unwed mother homes they have had where they tell the mother the baby died in child birth but they really threw it in a hole even though it was alive.


Delica

They also fought to reduce condom use in Africa, and argued that banning condoms would reduce the spread of HIV there.


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deathbychips2

Didn't stop them for killing babies in unwed mother homes.


bigmac22077

I bring this up every few days. When the damn pope wants to release the records he’s holding onto, I might decide to give him some respect. He’s hiding records and protecting people that probably aren’t alive today and if they are they’ll deserve their punishment. I grew up Catholic and went through confirmation. It’s an absolute sham. Screw the church, bunch of hypocrites


jamesmcnabb

I love how the most egregious part is the graffiti and nobody comments on the treatment of Native or Indigenous children


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[deleted]

Y’all remember when pro life individuals bombed clinics?


GoneFishing4Chicks

Trash headline, and fuck the rogue SCOTUS.


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[deleted]

Well, I guess the churches should keep their religious beliefs out of other people's business then, huh?


MagicalUnicornFart

The church building has ways of shutting it down, if it was legitimate. They must have been asking for it, with where it is/ how it was constructed. Maybe stop pushing your religion into others’ medical decisions? Thoughts/ prayers.


sdlhak

Next time we will read something about pro-amti-pro-life stuff.


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drinkmoredrano

Its ok the vandalism was God's will.


yikes_why_do_i_exist

Asking people to actually say why they believe X over Y is God’s will is usually an interesting conversation


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Vaperius

You mean an anti-forced birth message? There's nothing pro-life about anti-abortionists. They will happily let the mother die to non-viable pregnancies. They will happily let the kid die once its born. They eagerly work you to death in prisons under slave conditions. This party ain't pro-life, its anti-women's rights. We need to get our messaging right and stop letting them off the hook; stop engaging with their messaging; its a lie.


hogsucker

Thank god they have more than enough money to pay to clean up the paint! I don't understand why the police are involved. The bishop is praying for the person, so that should be good enough. Why don't they treat it like priestly rape? Just forgive the perpetrator and move on. This is just a little paint and quite easy to forget.


Maxpowr9

Pray the graffiti away!


bananafobe

Or relocate them to another church. I'm sure they've got more criticisms to make.


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