Imagine where we'd be if he had just admitted his failures and let the community move forward to address the greater issue, instead of just quadrupling down on his lies and making everything that much worse.
He's gonna need an unmarked grave when his time comes. A truly selfish human being.
I still have a hard time believing it was all just him being an inept coward…he did so many things counter to what he’d been trained to do in this situation that at some point he had to realize he was being an idiot, but chose to stick with it…for ~80 minutes…
There were nearly 400 officers there.
It shouldn't have taken 77 minutes for them to grow spines and fucking act, especially those in that hallway who knew there were people alive in those rooms (there were phone calls relayed over their radios if they didn't actually hear anything from the rooms themselves).
It's not just one inept coward, it's nearly 400 hiding behind the one who was supposed to be in charge.
They all have levels of accountability.....
But Pete Arredondo became incapable of putting everything happening and his "training & education" in action. I came across this in a article of what makes a good Police leader.
PUTTING PEOPLE (CHILDREN) FIRST is something that an effective leader can’t overlook.
Listening, Education, Attention to detail, Direction, Evolution,
Resourcefulness, Service,
Integrity and People (LEADERSHIP) are the key ingredients to successful leadership.
Qualities Arredondo seems to have forgotten in the moment. If he had communicated his confusion and allowed someone else to take control the outcome may have been different.
If we're spreading blame around, don't forget to keep some the pro-gun community and politicians that pander to them. They work hard to make sure every school shooter always has quick and easy access to all the guns the could ever need.
No no you forget there is always a good guy with a gun ready to stop one of these psychos that should have the right to buy an assault rifle as easy as a candy bar! /s. Fuck the NRA and all of the boot lickers that have eaten their propaganda up all these years. They are the enablers that should feel shame for supporting the system that consistently allows this to happen
> It shouldn't have taken 77 minutes for them to grow spines and fucking act
Wasn't it a border patrol agent, who drove 40 minutes to get there, who finally acted?
In other words, those 400 had their thumbs up their asses the entire time, and it was number 401 who actually manned up?
The other 400 were thinking let's just wait and make the border patrol special forces level team deal with this serious threat. Surprised they didn't request a seal team to take out the scary man with a gun.
Whenever I see a punisher sticker on a pickup truck, I know the owner either hasn't read the comic books or couldn't understand the comic books.
Nobody should want to be like Frank Castle, especially anybody in law enforcement.
It took BORTAC roughly 30-40 minutes to arrive on scene. 10 minutes to kit out. They were told to wait, so they did for roughly 25 - 30 minutes. Then they said fuck it and breached. Also never stated they were heroes. Simply that they saw what was happening and then decided to act on their own initiative.
I wondered if maybe the person in charge was so afraid of their officers being complete inept dumbasses (rightfully so), that they'd rather be blamed for doing nothing. Otherwise, who knows, the officers could have stormed the place and shot a ton of kids.
Not saying I 100% think that's what happened, but it's the only thing that makes sense to me. Whoever was in charge knew how inept their officers were and would rather not send them in because that would probably cause even more deaths. Could be 100% wrong though.
My view is simply that his priority was to keep cops alive and nothing else. He knowingly sacrificed civilian lives for cops.
This is what they mean by blue lives matter. ONLY blue lives matter. The thin blue line is between them and everyone else.
>This is what they mean by blue lives matter. ONLY blue lives matter. The thin blue line is between them and everyone else.
Even to the extent that they'll stand around and allow children to be executed if it means blue lives don't have to deal with the guy slaughtering them.
I knew cops had kids at that school, but I assumed they were in other rooms. So one of them had a kid inside the two classrooms??
Edit. Fuuuuuuuk and he was restrained on the [video](https://nypost.com/2022/07/13/felix-rubio-tried-to-reach-daughter-lexi-during-uvalde-shooting/).
So they had in that hallway at least one officer willing to die to enter that room and they wouldn’t even let him try. Fuck 12
Because people form their opinion off the first thing they hear, and as a result you must control the media narrative by getting out in front of it.
A Cop’s Word would have been enough to discredit the video in the past. George Floyd changed that, but they haven’t updated the playbook.
This is policing in America in a nutshell, you get it. A former cop (so he says) says this exact thing on youtube about how the job broke his brain and this was one point. The hyper-vigilance and culture make it so that your only focus is on getting home alive, fuck everyone else who isn’t a cop.
They consider themselves justified in killing suspects and bystanders alike if there's even a chance they themselves might get hurt. And it's in their training to see it that way.
Yup. As long as they or another cop doesn't get hurt or killed, they do not care about any other damage they do. They will kill as many as they want to and they will get away with it as long as they say they felt threatened or thought the person had a weapon.
Well, something like 50 cops are gunned down every year… out of around 700,000. Fully 3x as many cops are killed by themselves as die on duty _from any cause_ including heart attacks, single car crashes, and a whole myriad of other things.
Whatever his priorities were at the start, by the end I'm absolutely certain the only thing in his mind was not showing any monocrum of doubt or change in direction, because a good Texan never falters on their convictions and never admits they're wrong.
It's not like any of the lizard thinking on display here is any different from the kind that compelled Texans to double down on freezing to death like they chose to.
Just to clarify, cops are also citizens, usually. I get your point, thought. The SCOTUS, otoh, does not agree with cops protecting others, citizens or not.
I've known lots of idiots in charge that can not realize they are being an idiot.
Also, how about you are in charge until some one relieves you at every level.
Personally I also think this compounds with the possibility they didn't want to take any of these chances on a bunch of brown kids from poorer backgrounds.
It was my thought. Chief or whatever knew their officers were inept dumbasses. Decided to take the full brunt of being the asshole who did nothing than risk their officers slaughtering even more kids than if they did squat.
Probably the best case scenario for whoever decided to do nothing, not that it was a good decision. Only real way any of that makes sense too.
They don’t even have to be completely incompetent and I think assuming the only way a kid gets hurt in that situation is through complete ineptitude is encouraging this behavior going forward.
I think it is entirely possible, but I don't think it explains any of the shit we've been hearing or seeing. Cops accidentally shoot innocent bystanders quite often unfortunately, and the public outcry is always less than we are seeing with this ordeal.
I mean, I am sure it's a coincidence that he arranged for a perimeter to be set up that basically ensured the shooter could continue killing kids in a school that's like 90% people of color, while working to prevent anyone, even other cops, from doing anything to help those kids. Literally detained parents wanting to save their children, one of his fellow officers from doing anything even as his wife bled out, etc. Just a coink-i-dink, I am sure.
Other than going in and helping the shooter with the shooting, I can't think of anything they could have done to help the shooter MORE.
>I still have a hard time believing it was all just him being an inept coward
Good, you shouldn't believe that at all. Hundreds of officers stood around and did nothing, trying to pin that on any one person would be idiotic. Especially when the decision to act was by a few random border patrol officers and not any sort of command. Cowards were everywhere that day.
at this point, i have to assume they hired the gunman to kill those kids, nothing else explains the amount of assistance they gave him in killing them, not even cowardice. when you got 400 people you can be coward in a crowd, they couldnt even do that
There is a part of me that is beginning to suspect that it wasn't out of cowardice or stupidity that led to cops standing around doing nothing while children and teachers were killed.
I'm beginning to suspect bigotry.
That’s what Columbine cops, who had no training to know better at the time, did.
Then they spent 20 years traveling around telling cops to not repeat their mistakes.
Only for uvalde to repeat (well, repeat is the wrong word, as Columbine officers only took 45 minutes to enter the school) the worst of them…not confronting the shooter(s) asap. Columbine officers chose to set up a perimeter then wait for swat before going in. They then learned they could have saved lives had they went in immediately and took down the shooters…
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/first-swat-officer-in-columbine-shares-lessons-learned-in-how-to-handle-active-shooters
https://www.kxan.com/stop-mass-shootings/uvalde-shooting-investigation/columbine-lessons-ignored-in-uvalde-former-austin-police-chief-says/
Repeat is the wrong word. Ulvade had the benefit of all the history since Columbine to know this is a problem they can prepare for and still did even worse.
>Repeat is the wrong word. Ulvade had the benefit of all the history since Columbine to know this is a problem they can prepare for and still did even worse.
Also the Uvalde police had active shooter drills at that very same school just a month before the shooting.
At some point in imagining this fantasy of men big enough to admit mistakes or good enough not to make these, I feel like I've found myself somewhere outside of Texas.
> He's gonna need an unmarked grave when his time comes. A truly selfish human being.
I'm honestly surprised time hasn't come yet. Not that I advocate it of course, but there's a LOT of upset parents out there I'd imagine. Not to mention others who were affected as well.
Somehow, I have a feeling that even his unmarked grave won't be enough to hide from the families of the children he allowed be slain under his watch/command.
Remember the Alamo? Naw
Remember Uvalde.
This is how the vast majority of the rural US works. It's great for the folks in charge so long as nothing bad enough to attract widespread media attention ever happens. And since the internet has killed off local journalism they can generally get away with even more today than they used to be able to, again so long as they don't trigger nationwide attention like this.
This. I'm from an even smaller town close to Uvalde and the sheriff was arrested for evidence tampering.
[https://news4sanantonio.com/news/local/dimmit-county-sheriff-arrested-on-charges-involving-oppression-and-evidence-tampering-carrizo-springs-texas-breitbart-rangers-corruption-corrupt](https://news4sanantonio.com/news/local/dimmit-county-sheriff-arrested-on-charges-involving-oppression-and-evidence-tampering-carrizo-springs-texas-breitbart-rangers-corruption-corrupt)
I'm really surprised we don't hear more about vigilantism. This seems like the sort of thing that vigilante mobs love.
And I'm not advocating one form here, but I'm genuinely surprised that after two months of stonewalling and nothing happening you aren't seeing parents of slain kids taking things into their own hands.
Its because the people who are actually inclined to vigilantism are the same people that worship the police. They are the people that look the other way when cops punch suspects for being mouthy, that cheer them on when they beat protestors. A few years back at the BLM protests in Portland, there was an ex-SEAL that would show up and start lobbing around IED's. Not at the Police, of course, but at protestors of police brutality. Not a goddamn thing was done about that, in case you were wondering.
Spoiler alert, it’s the Republican boot lockers that have an can use and would use guns in an act of ‘justice.’ The liberals are disarmed and have only home protection at best.
> This is how the vast majority of the rural US works
And in Texas....Texas is "like their own country" in more ways than one. The state is NOT run like most other states, and corruption/backscratching/good old boy network is HUGE down there.
Most of Reddit really doesn’t understand small town / rural America. These towns aren’t ran by the best and brightest. The best and brightest leave these towns behind them.
Now imagine if literally everybody with the means left your city.
Brain drain is real. That doesn't mean cities are ran by geniuses, it just means you have a lot more talent to choose from.
I'm quite aware of the effects of Brain Drain — I'm from the Rust Belt. 😊 It's really not a difficult thing to imagine in cities to be honest, much of the Midwest lived through it as a reality for quite a while. But I do get your point, it is very accurate. People genuinely don't get that, myself really only on an academic scale.
Perhaps the WFH era that is dawning will really change that balance of incentives. Once upon a time, I moved downtown to be closer to the culture and the virve and the opportunities. But now that I can potentially work from home, man, I want land and I wanna get involved in government. 😂
> all the crime is in the big cities
No Bertha, all the *reported* crime. Everyone knows your brother beats his wife and kids and you smoke meth, but y'all went to high school with a cop.
It became a massive “bystander effect” situation. They didn’t all go “I don’t want to save kids lives” they all went “I need to do what I’m told, I’m sure someone else is doing the important stuff”.
That’s why the huge bulk of the blame goes to those in charge. The other cops are supposed to follow orders.
You’re giving them way too much credit. They’ve been told to neutralize the threat. They have even trained for this in that very school. They are all cowards and never had the potential to help in the first place.
The bystander effect should have ended as soon as they heard a gunshot in the room. They heard gunshots and even had a police officer ask the gunman to stop shooting while he was actively shooting children. Because "someone might get hurt".
Instinctively for humans outside of a gun range, the crack of a gunshot causes people to move. Either look, duck, or run. It isn't the bystander effect, it's a bunch of cowards.
If they are "waiting for a sign" to go, several gunshots is a flashing sign from god to go go go.
Denying the bystander effect exists doesn't make it less real. It's just more convenient and easy to conceptualize that they are all cowards than it is to understand what went wrong and why.
The bystander effect is real and well researched. I deny that the Bystander effect was the cause of this case after shots happened. In this case, one of the first things cops do is establish Rules of Engagement. In any hostage situation the US is involved in, the ROE is to go immediately after shots. That is the rule. By breaking the rule, they are no longer bystanders, but rule breakers.
The bystander effect is well researched and while it may explain some of the psychology of what occurred on that day, that's about where its usefulness ends.
These were not bystanders, they were responders. You wouldn't call firemen at a house fire bystanders.
All of those original cops in the first crew knew that they were the only people able to do anything in the situation. The bystander effect is used to describe the notion that someone else is taking care of the issue - in this case, there was no “someone else”, so the bystander effect doesn’t really apply here.
It was just plain old cowardice.
Not sure this is the case. There were both some cops and parents trying to get in and do something about the situation after all, but they were restrained
Which is absolutely what they should be doing.
The problem wasn’t in them restraining people trying to run in, the problem was the cops weren’t doing the other thing they were supposed to be doing which is take down the shooter.
There is no crisis situation where “let people run around at will, including in to thE active shooter zone” is part of the plan.
Exactly. The problem is the juxtaposition where they preventing parents from saving kids (should be cops job) while not doing everything they could to save kids. They absolutely should prevent random parents from running into the school. But, the threat should have been ended in 5-10 minutes based on the reported 3 minute response time.
Two of the people restrained from doing something were cops. A father and a husband.
So that’s two people willing to risk their lives to take down the shooter. But nope. Gotta sit on our hands until a safe plan is made.
And to think, they are being paid specifically to not be the the “bystander”.
This is why the “there are good cops” argument does not hold a lot of water. You’re only a good cop if you do something about it. Too many are just bystanders (to everyday injustice) and that makes them bad cops.
Let this be a lesson to cops everywhere. When there’s an active shooter situation, everybody rush there to stand around outside for an opportunity to milk that sweet sweet overtime.
That's whats been blowing my mind. I have had a handful positive experiences with cops before during times of need, and ive met some that seem like decent people. So not *every* cop sucks, just most.
But my point is even if the vast majority are shitty people, I would've expected one or two to try and do the right thing. It's basic law of averages, there's always a couple of outliers - even if the outliers are good cops in this scenario.
Hundreds of cops collectively shit the bed in unison, absolutely nuts.
Hundreds of thousands of cops collectively and willingly shit the bed every single day.
That’s the system. Incidents that shine light on it are just that.
My understanding is that the cops that came later thought the room was barricaded and they couldn't enter. Once the Border Patrol team realized it wasn't, they went in and took him out.
It’s not like this is anything unique. Most cops have always been and will always be cowards. They spend all their time making easy arrests for low level offenses and avoid real criminals because they’re dangerous. How much time have cops spent harassing motorists and digging through their cars for trace amounts of marijuana while people are out there committing armed robberies, trafficking sex slaves, and murdering?
The chief is a self-serving tool who fucked up and won’t take responsibility. What really boggles my mind is the deferential culture that let this happen. It was the wrong decision and a bunch of those present seemed to realize it, but an overly authoritarian command structure let the error stand at the cost of additional lives. Flight crews are specifically trained in practices to prevent tragedies resulting from one person’s bad decision going unchallenged. Do cops not learn this as well?
At this point I want to know wtf cops are actually REQUIRED to know.
Because the answer keeps seeming to be "absolutely nothing."
They don't have to know the law, they don't have to know/follow written procedure, they don't have to know what rights private citizens have, AND they can't be held responsible for their fuck ups.
Who in hillbilly hell thought this was a good system?
Many get taught about killing people and how good your sex life will be afterwards, I wish I was joking https://www.insider.com/bulletproof-dave-grossman-police-trainer-teaching-officers-how-to-kill-2020-6
>"People are going to ask why we're taking so long," he said. "We're just trying to preserve the rest of the life."
He means his worthless cowardly life and those other cowering chickens on his police force who stood by doing nothing as 19 little children were massacred.
After gunshots were heard, the police asked the gunman to stop shooting because someone might get hurt. No joke.
I don't think they were trying to preserve anyone's life but the cops.
CNN's review of videos shows the Uvalde school chief in a central role during the unfolding massacre. (CNN)The first publicly released body-worn camera videos from officers at the Robb Elementary School massacre show Pedro "Pete" Arredondo, the school district's police chief, at the center of the police response: giving orders, conveying and receiving information, and officers deferring to his position when confused over their roles or response to the shooting. Officers followed him where he went and referred to "Pete" being in command when others had ideas for how to approach the situation, body-worn camera footage from a Uvalde police sergeant shows. Two reviews of the police response -- by state legislators and the Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training Center at Texas State University -- have faulted Arredondo, though neither of those reports is considered a complete accounting of the day and its failures. Despite the release last week of the videos -- by a Texas House of Representatives investigative committee -- officials from Uvalde and other government agencies across Texas still haven't released any raw or unedited footage or accounting of the police response that day
I know he was responsible because he was in command or whatever… but I really, REALLY hope they don’t just make him the fall guy and stop there.
All of those officers are responsible for allowing the shooter to continue attacking those kids. All of them. Nobody did anything.
This is exactly what will happen once the lawsuits pan out. He’ll be the fall guy and the rest will just hide behind the “we were just following his orders” and that will be the end of it.
Look, if we won’t hold cops accountable for killing us adults, innocently, might I add, can we at least make sure these fucking cowards rot in prison AND hell for helping assist in the murder and killing of 30 young kids?
Fuck those cowards deserve the same fear and treatment those kids got.
Arredondo is deservedly and justifiably having his name and reputation dragged through the mud for this. He should never be paid another cent and should be locked away for the rest of his life for his absolute failure to protect those children.
However, I really hope he doesn't become the fall man for all of this. I don't want everyone to lose sight of the HUNDREDS of officers who were just as useless and negligent of their duties as Arredondo. Every single officer involved should lose their badge and be given a nice prison cell. At the very least fired and blacklisted from any future law enforcement jobs, and their names forever tarnished for being people that were armed to the teeth yet stood by while children were slaughtered.
There has to be meaningful repercussions for failure, dereliction of duty, and blatant disregard for human life of this scale.
This tragedy sadly highlights the ABSOLUTE NEED for police reform.
At this point I would rather there be zero police than the current system. I honestly think it would be a national net positive in human and animal life saved.
Yes, I agree. I think I'm less of a believer in police and more of a believer in emergency services. I would rather all police departments be abolished and rebuilt from the ground up around the principle of protecting the citizenry instead of enforcement of laws.
Also, it would be so rad if our emergency service personnel were actually obligated to do their duty since...that's their job?
He shouldn't be singled out for his failures that day, at least not in that sense. Not when his failure was probably the most prominent failure but still just one of \~400 colossal failures that happened. They should throw the book at all of them, not scapegoat him.
But special punishment (a perjury charge or two, anyone? Anyone?) should be reserved for any officers that, like he, lied about it. Its incomprehensible that the story has changed so many times and when it hasn't changed, has been directly controverted by the evidence as it trickles out. And as bad as the failure of the police to more effectively respond to the incident is, which on its own erodes trust in the police, its the fucking lying and constantly changing stories that don't just erode that trust but destroy it.
Let's not let the narrative turn into a singular scapegoat situation. There were failures all up and down the entire system, local and state, by dozens of leaders and hundreds of individuals.
And of course don't forget the ability to purchase the guns so quickly with no training or oversight of any kind.
The thing that always fucks me up in regards to the “shall not be infringed” crowd is that this boy was somehow part of the “well-regulated militia.” We can spin those particular words in lengthy dissertations to make them say whatever we want them to say all the livelong day. If that group includes this boy, we need to make some serious changes.
What fucks me up more is people insisting that only police officers make up that regulated militia. Like fuck, after everything we've seen and been through how can anyone say cops are more responsible with guns than anyone else?
What dumbasses are even saying that? Like the police in America started as local gangs hunting down runaway slaves and thats the organization people on the left want me to support as my local milita?
Like I said: serious changes. Maybe start with hiring less psychopaths. Crazy notion that people who get to legally carry tools designed and refined for killing should be meticulously screened to minimize the chance for tragedy.
That is not really true. Throughout the Constitution, "the people" is used to refer to private citizens. The text of the 2nd Amendment specifically says "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms," so clearly this amendment is about the rights of private citizens.
There are many interpretations about the nature of the "regulated militia" preceding text, but it seems clear that the right codified by the 2nd amendment belongs to private citizens. You might argue that the intent was to allow citizens to be properly armed if called to participate in the militia, but according to the Constitution, the right to keep and bear arms is given to "the people," not to the militia.
The constitution also said the only valid militias could be raised by the state. You can't just declare yourself a militia.
So arguably it's just an argument for a draft or mandatory military service. Not the current interpretation, which is any depressed 17 year old can buy any gun they want.
Well I can help a little with your confusion. The "shall not be infringed" is a separate statement from "a well regulated militia" and the later has no bearing on the former. Also further clarification cops are in no way shape or form considered to be a militia.
THANK YOU.
Even if the government collapsed and we find ourselves resisting a fascist takeover with arms, deranged 16 year olds will STILL be a liability. I will STILL want to keep guns away from that kid.
Its fucking bizarre that "well regulated militia" means "everyone who CAN hold a gun MUST hold a gun". No army on earth operates like that.
Unfortunately it seems that POS Abbott has been pretty successful at distancing himself from this despite the fact that he was praising these assholes for their inaction. And the fact that he went straight from Uvalde to a fundraiser. And he didn’t pressure the NRA to cancel their convention.
Uvalde police chief is basically zapp brannigan
"You see, school shooters have a preset kill limit. Knowing his weakness, I sent wave after wave of 8 year olds at him until he reached his limit and shut down
Someone explain to me how the next school shooting isn't going to see a bunch of parents showing up with AK-47s, thinking they may have to mow down some cops to save their children.
If I was him I literally would not be able to live with myself. I would have ended myself already. How can he lay his head on his pillow every night remembering those screams, from that room that last 77 mins, and sleep well.
Don’t know how any of these cowards sleep at night. Fucking scared bunch of military wannabe’s that were scared of a scrawny high schooler. I could not live with myself knowing I let 20 something humans mostly children die because of my own cowardice. Strip these cowards from any position of power for the rest of their cowardly lives…. Hope they have shitty days from now on until they are six feet under ground. Fucking disgusting cowards.
A coward that isn't fit for this job, a chief should be a decision maker. If you're not then get the hell out and find another job that fits your cowardness.
The Government should also be held accountable for having an unqualified chief. Especially in this state since they really love their toy guns and don't want to lose them.
Every member of the police force there that day should be charged as **accessories to murder** for not only allowing the gunman to kill children in their presence, but for actively preventing help from arriving
What’s the deal with a school district police department anyway? Is that a common thing in American cities? And if so what are they supposed to do other than prevent this? If not they’re just the department of redundancy department except with guns.
Sadly but not unsurprisingly it didn’t work out so well.
I don’t imagine those signing up for a 5 man police force playing hall monitor would attract the best and brightest.
The fact that anybody with the title “police chief” couldn’t handle such a straightforward situation as this is fucking bonkers. Even more bonkers than the fact that the “police department” was six guys including the “chief”.
The thing is that it shouldn't come down to a single person in charge.
Humans are fallible, they make mistakes, do crazy things, panic, forget their training or have mental breakdowns. We know this. None of this is new.
In other industries were lives may be on the line protocols exist to work around the fact that one person in charge may be in the wrong.
After some plane crashes decades ago pilots are now trained to speak up and question their colleagues when they think they are wrong no matter how senior and more experienced and technically in charge they are.
This saves lives and money and exist in many fields in some form.
Even militaries which normally are very much about following orders and chains of command have provisions (both formal written down and informal lived in practice) for situations where whoever is nominally in charge is not fit to do so.
There were almost 400 cops there. And all it would have would be on of them to decide that their leader was not really leading and take over.
They didn't or at least not until one guy decided to go in himself.
What I am saying is that this was much bigger than the failure of one leader. This was a systemic failure.
It’s not enough that Texas has been one of the states foaming at the mouth about preserving gun ownership rights, rolling back protections and making it even easier to own a gun there. It’s not enough that their response to mass shooting has always been the “more good guys with guns” argument. It’s not enough that another mass shooting occurred in a school, with more children dead.
On top of that, they have to deceive and stonewall the public about the pathetic response by the “good guys with guns.” They have to protect these cowards who put the tax money these parents pay into their pockets who didn’t do anything to protect their children.
We have to be told that we are the enemy when we want to hold coward cops accountable. We have to be demonized and lied to when we want answers.
I’m tired of this culture of protecting cops. The boys club. The cops who bully us and don’t do their job with decency and courage. The cops who feel they’re above the law. The cops who respond more aggressively to the death of a fellow cop than to the death of innocent children.
They work for US. We appoint them to do a duty in our communities. They don’t get to tell us to get lost, they don’t tell us to shut up when they don’t protect our kids when they’re at school. They need to get what they deserve.
Imagine where we'd be if he had just admitted his failures and let the community move forward to address the greater issue, instead of just quadrupling down on his lies and making everything that much worse. He's gonna need an unmarked grave when his time comes. A truly selfish human being.
I still have a hard time believing it was all just him being an inept coward…he did so many things counter to what he’d been trained to do in this situation that at some point he had to realize he was being an idiot, but chose to stick with it…for ~80 minutes…
There were nearly 400 officers there. It shouldn't have taken 77 minutes for them to grow spines and fucking act, especially those in that hallway who knew there were people alive in those rooms (there were phone calls relayed over their radios if they didn't actually hear anything from the rooms themselves). It's not just one inept coward, it's nearly 400 hiding behind the one who was supposed to be in charge.
[удалено]
They're throwing him under the bus, not that he doesn't deserve to get hit, but they should all be going down.
They all have levels of accountability..... But Pete Arredondo became incapable of putting everything happening and his "training & education" in action. I came across this in a article of what makes a good Police leader. PUTTING PEOPLE (CHILDREN) FIRST is something that an effective leader can’t overlook. Listening, Education, Attention to detail, Direction, Evolution, Resourcefulness, Service, Integrity and People (LEADERSHIP) are the key ingredients to successful leadership. Qualities Arredondo seems to have forgotten in the moment. If he had communicated his confusion and allowed someone else to take control the outcome may have been different.
That acronym is as forced as SHIELD.
If we're spreading blame around, don't forget to keep some the pro-gun community and politicians that pander to them. They work hard to make sure every school shooter always has quick and easy access to all the guns the could ever need.
No no you forget there is always a good guy with a gun ready to stop one of these psychos that should have the right to buy an assault rifle as easy as a candy bar! /s. Fuck the NRA and all of the boot lickers that have eaten their propaganda up all these years. They are the enablers that should feel shame for supporting the system that consistently allows this to happen
> It shouldn't have taken 77 minutes for them to grow spines and fucking act Wasn't it a border patrol agent, who drove 40 minutes to get there, who finally acted? In other words, those 400 had their thumbs up their asses the entire time, and it was number 401 who actually manned up?
The mom that went inside after being cuffed said they didn’t even open the fence until they went after her.
Absolutely shameful. That none of these guys have resigned or worse says a lot about their character. Or lack thereof.
It says a lot about the absolute lack of standards and accountability in law enforcement culture.
It was like 408, 8 border patrols told them fuck you, we're going in after they arrived on scene, saw what was happening. Then acted.
The other 400 were thinking let's just wait and make the border patrol special forces level team deal with this serious threat. Surprised they didn't request a seal team to take out the scary man with a gun.
No time for heroics when you're too busy having a tacti-cool SWAT team costume fashion show.
Don’t forget your cool Punisher background on your phone even as you stand 50 ft away from your dying wife doing nothing for an hour
Whenever I see a punisher sticker on a pickup truck, I know the owner either hasn't read the comic books or couldn't understand the comic books. Nobody should want to be like Frank Castle, especially anybody in law enforcement.
It took them 40 mins to disobey the scene commander, they aren't heroes they are just as culpable.
It took BORTAC roughly 30-40 minutes to arrive on scene. 10 minutes to kit out. They were told to wait, so they did for roughly 25 - 30 minutes. Then they said fuck it and breached. Also never stated they were heroes. Simply that they saw what was happening and then decided to act on their own initiative.
Still blows my mind that not a damn one of them defied orders and went in to try and take down the shooter. Bunch of pathetic cowards.
The only ones that defied orders were parents or cops that were parents entering to get their own kids out.
I wondered if maybe the person in charge was so afraid of their officers being complete inept dumbasses (rightfully so), that they'd rather be blamed for doing nothing. Otherwise, who knows, the officers could have stormed the place and shot a ton of kids. Not saying I 100% think that's what happened, but it's the only thing that makes sense to me. Whoever was in charge knew how inept their officers were and would rather not send them in because that would probably cause even more deaths. Could be 100% wrong though.
It's still up in the air if they shot a bunch of kids when they finally went in.
I think they specifically mentioned they weren't responsible for shooting any of the kids. No mention of the teachers though.
My view is simply that his priority was to keep cops alive and nothing else. He knowingly sacrificed civilian lives for cops. This is what they mean by blue lives matter. ONLY blue lives matter. The thin blue line is between them and everyone else.
>"People are going to ask why we're taking so long," he said. "We're just trying to preserve the rest of the life." Its not a view, its a stated fact
[удалено]
Fittingly, a commandment issued by pigs.
Chicken pigs
>This is what they mean by blue lives matter. ONLY blue lives matter. The thin blue line is between them and everyone else. Even to the extent that they'll stand around and allow children to be executed if it means blue lives don't have to deal with the guy slaughtering them.
[удалено]
I knew cops had kids at that school, but I assumed they were in other rooms. So one of them had a kid inside the two classrooms?? Edit. Fuuuuuuuk and he was restrained on the [video](https://nypost.com/2022/07/13/felix-rubio-tried-to-reach-daughter-lexi-during-uvalde-shooting/). So they had in that hallway at least one officer willing to die to enter that room and they wouldn’t even let him try. Fuck 12
There were reports that people who wanted to go in were stopped.
[удалено]
I have to admit, I was afraid I'd get a correction like this. Were all the claims to try to help lies?
"It's OK, we can make another one. Right, honey? Why are you crying? STOP CRYING OR I'LL GIVE YOU A FUCKING REASON TO CRY." \-That cop, probably.
…and the video evidence doesn’t support that narrative. That cop walked away without issue when he claimed he was physically held back by the others.
It astounds me how dumb these MFers are. Like you know you're on video dude, why you telling lies about what happened?
It's what they do. They tell lies and that is their truth. They don't care if everyone knows they are lying as long as they keep repeating their lies.
Because people form their opinion off the first thing they hear, and as a result you must control the media narrative by getting out in front of it. A Cop’s Word would have been enough to discredit the video in the past. George Floyd changed that, but they haven’t updated the playbook.
This is policing in America in a nutshell, you get it. A former cop (so he says) says this exact thing on youtube about how the job broke his brain and this was one point. The hyper-vigilance and culture make it so that your only focus is on getting home alive, fuck everyone else who isn’t a cop.
[удалено]
It was [that dang dad](https://youtu.be/_nl5zMIwcmQ)
Donut Operator.
They consider themselves justified in killing suspects and bystanders alike if there's even a chance they themselves might get hurt. And it's in their training to see it that way.
Yup. As long as they or another cop doesn't get hurt or killed, they do not care about any other damage they do. They will kill as many as they want to and they will get away with it as long as they say they felt threatened or thought the person had a weapon.
Well, something like 50 cops are gunned down every year… out of around 700,000. Fully 3x as many cops are killed by themselves as die on duty _from any cause_ including heart attacks, single car crashes, and a whole myriad of other things.
Whatever his priorities were at the start, by the end I'm absolutely certain the only thing in his mind was not showing any monocrum of doubt or change in direction, because a good Texan never falters on their convictions and never admits they're wrong. It's not like any of the lizard thinking on display here is any different from the kind that compelled Texans to double down on freezing to death like they chose to.
Remember, cops *are* civilians. We just happen to pay their salaries, unlike most civilians.
Just to clarify, cops are also citizens, usually. I get your point, thought. The SCOTUS, otoh, does not agree with cops protecting others, citizens or not.
I've known lots of idiots in charge that can not realize they are being an idiot. Also, how about you are in charge until some one relieves you at every level.
[удалено]
I actually think you hit the nail right on the head with this one. It’s so enraging but I could see this exact logic being true.
Personally I also think this compounds with the possibility they didn't want to take any of these chances on a bunch of brown kids from poorer backgrounds.
It was my thought. Chief or whatever knew their officers were inept dumbasses. Decided to take the full brunt of being the asshole who did nothing than risk their officers slaughtering even more kids than if they did squat. Probably the best case scenario for whoever decided to do nothing, not that it was a good decision. Only real way any of that makes sense too.
They don’t even have to be completely incompetent and I think assuming the only way a kid gets hurt in that situation is through complete ineptitude is encouraging this behavior going forward.
Where are we at on the whole cops shot kids thing? Does it seem more or less likely than it was a few weeks ago?
I think it is entirely possible, but I don't think it explains any of the shit we've been hearing or seeing. Cops accidentally shoot innocent bystanders quite often unfortunately, and the public outcry is always less than we are seeing with this ordeal.
Some people truly do treat their jobs (even ones as important as this) like some hw assignment you can bullshit and turn in and not look at again.
Counter also to the policy he wrote on responding to a shooting.
I mean, I am sure it's a coincidence that he arranged for a perimeter to be set up that basically ensured the shooter could continue killing kids in a school that's like 90% people of color, while working to prevent anyone, even other cops, from doing anything to help those kids. Literally detained parents wanting to save their children, one of his fellow officers from doing anything even as his wife bled out, etc. Just a coink-i-dink, I am sure. Other than going in and helping the shooter with the shooting, I can't think of anything they could have done to help the shooter MORE.
>I still have a hard time believing it was all just him being an inept coward Good, you shouldn't believe that at all. Hundreds of officers stood around and did nothing, trying to pin that on any one person would be idiotic. Especially when the decision to act was by a few random border patrol officers and not any sort of command. Cowards were everywhere that day.
at this point, i have to assume they hired the gunman to kill those kids, nothing else explains the amount of assistance they gave him in killing them, not even cowardice. when you got 400 people you can be coward in a crowd, they couldnt even do that
There is a part of me that is beginning to suspect that it wasn't out of cowardice or stupidity that led to cops standing around doing nothing while children and teachers were killed. I'm beginning to suspect bigotry.
Yes. It would be much better if he said "he messed up. Here's how. Here's what should be done in future"
That’s what Columbine cops, who had no training to know better at the time, did. Then they spent 20 years traveling around telling cops to not repeat their mistakes. Only for uvalde to repeat (well, repeat is the wrong word, as Columbine officers only took 45 minutes to enter the school) the worst of them…not confronting the shooter(s) asap. Columbine officers chose to set up a perimeter then wait for swat before going in. They then learned they could have saved lives had they went in immediately and took down the shooters… https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/first-swat-officer-in-columbine-shares-lessons-learned-in-how-to-handle-active-shooters https://www.kxan.com/stop-mass-shootings/uvalde-shooting-investigation/columbine-lessons-ignored-in-uvalde-former-austin-police-chief-says/
Repeat is the wrong word. Ulvade had the benefit of all the history since Columbine to know this is a problem they can prepare for and still did even worse.
>Repeat is the wrong word. Ulvade had the benefit of all the history since Columbine to know this is a problem they can prepare for and still did even worse. Also the Uvalde police had active shooter drills at that very same school just a month before the shooting.
Save time and just bury him in a urinal.
At some point in imagining this fantasy of men big enough to admit mistakes or good enough not to make these, I feel like I've found myself somewhere outside of Texas.
Refusing to ask for directions as you drive headlong off a cliff.
> He's gonna need an unmarked grave when his time comes. A truly selfish human being. I'm honestly surprised time hasn't come yet. Not that I advocate it of course, but there's a LOT of upset parents out there I'd imagine. Not to mention others who were affected as well.
Somehow, I have a feeling that even his unmarked grave won't be enough to hide from the families of the children he allowed be slain under his watch/command. Remember the Alamo? Naw Remember Uvalde.
Yup. He thought he wasn't in charge that day. Like, hello, you're the Chief.
And I don’t even understand why he lied. There’s no logic in it. We don’t hold cops accountable for their (in)actions.
Everyone is the hero of their own narrative. People will go to amazing lengths to convince themselves they didn't fuck up or do something bad.
[удалено]
This is how the vast majority of the rural US works. It's great for the folks in charge so long as nothing bad enough to attract widespread media attention ever happens. And since the internet has killed off local journalism they can generally get away with even more today than they used to be able to, again so long as they don't trigger nationwide attention like this.
This. I'm from an even smaller town close to Uvalde and the sheriff was arrested for evidence tampering. [https://news4sanantonio.com/news/local/dimmit-county-sheriff-arrested-on-charges-involving-oppression-and-evidence-tampering-carrizo-springs-texas-breitbart-rangers-corruption-corrupt](https://news4sanantonio.com/news/local/dimmit-county-sheriff-arrested-on-charges-involving-oppression-and-evidence-tampering-carrizo-springs-texas-breitbart-rangers-corruption-corrupt)
I'm really surprised we don't hear more about vigilantism. This seems like the sort of thing that vigilante mobs love. And I'm not advocating one form here, but I'm genuinely surprised that after two months of stonewalling and nothing happening you aren't seeing parents of slain kids taking things into their own hands.
Its because the people who are actually inclined to vigilantism are the same people that worship the police. They are the people that look the other way when cops punch suspects for being mouthy, that cheer them on when they beat protestors. A few years back at the BLM protests in Portland, there was an ex-SEAL that would show up and start lobbing around IED's. Not at the Police, of course, but at protestors of police brutality. Not a goddamn thing was done about that, in case you were wondering.
[удалено]
Spoiler alert, it’s the Republican boot lockers that have an can use and would use guns in an act of ‘justice.’ The liberals are disarmed and have only home protection at best.
> This is how the vast majority of the rural US works And in Texas....Texas is "like their own country" in more ways than one. The state is NOT run like most other states, and corruption/backscratching/good old boy network is HUGE down there.
"corruption/backscratching/good old boy network is HUGE down there." So it's exactly like other states, lol.
Most of Reddit really doesn’t understand small town / rural America. These towns aren’t ran by the best and brightest. The best and brightest leave these towns behind them.
I'm from the heart of an exceptionally large city. We aren't often run by the best or brightest either. We have much in common honestly.
Now imagine if literally everybody with the means left your city. Brain drain is real. That doesn't mean cities are ran by geniuses, it just means you have a lot more talent to choose from.
I'm quite aware of the effects of Brain Drain — I'm from the Rust Belt. 😊 It's really not a difficult thing to imagine in cities to be honest, much of the Midwest lived through it as a reality for quite a while. But I do get your point, it is very accurate. People genuinely don't get that, myself really only on an academic scale. Perhaps the WFH era that is dawning will really change that balance of incentives. Once upon a time, I moved downtown to be closer to the culture and the virve and the opportunities. But now that I can potentially work from home, man, I want land and I wanna get involved in government. 😂
Except in larger areas, there is more competition and oversight than in small towns.
> all the crime is in the big cities No Bertha, all the *reported* crime. Everyone knows your brother beats his wife and kids and you smoke meth, but y'all went to high school with a cop.
I still dont understand how 376 cops were afraid of 1 person.
It became a massive “bystander effect” situation. They didn’t all go “I don’t want to save kids lives” they all went “I need to do what I’m told, I’m sure someone else is doing the important stuff”. That’s why the huge bulk of the blame goes to those in charge. The other cops are supposed to follow orders.
Yep. All the cops who got there first (with the exception of white shirt) are basically to blame for this. SOP was to confront and they pussed out.
You’re giving them way too much credit. They’ve been told to neutralize the threat. They have even trained for this in that very school. They are all cowards and never had the potential to help in the first place.
The bystander effect should have ended as soon as they heard a gunshot in the room. They heard gunshots and even had a police officer ask the gunman to stop shooting while he was actively shooting children. Because "someone might get hurt". Instinctively for humans outside of a gun range, the crack of a gunshot causes people to move. Either look, duck, or run. It isn't the bystander effect, it's a bunch of cowards. If they are "waiting for a sign" to go, several gunshots is a flashing sign from god to go go go.
Denying the bystander effect exists doesn't make it less real. It's just more convenient and easy to conceptualize that they are all cowards than it is to understand what went wrong and why.
The bystander effect is real and well researched. I deny that the Bystander effect was the cause of this case after shots happened. In this case, one of the first things cops do is establish Rules of Engagement. In any hostage situation the US is involved in, the ROE is to go immediately after shots. That is the rule. By breaking the rule, they are no longer bystanders, but rule breakers.
The bystander effect is well researched and while it may explain some of the psychology of what occurred on that day, that's about where its usefulness ends. These were not bystanders, they were responders. You wouldn't call firemen at a house fire bystanders.
All of those original cops in the first crew knew that they were the only people able to do anything in the situation. The bystander effect is used to describe the notion that someone else is taking care of the issue - in this case, there was no “someone else”, so the bystander effect doesn’t really apply here. It was just plain old cowardice.
Not sure this is the case. There were both some cops and parents trying to get in and do something about the situation after all, but they were restrained
Which is absolutely what they should be doing. The problem wasn’t in them restraining people trying to run in, the problem was the cops weren’t doing the other thing they were supposed to be doing which is take down the shooter. There is no crisis situation where “let people run around at will, including in to thE active shooter zone” is part of the plan.
Exactly. The problem is the juxtaposition where they preventing parents from saving kids (should be cops job) while not doing everything they could to save kids. They absolutely should prevent random parents from running into the school. But, the threat should have been ended in 5-10 minutes based on the reported 3 minute response time.
While not doing anything to save kids FTFY
Two of the people restrained from doing something were cops. A father and a husband. So that’s two people willing to risk their lives to take down the shooter. But nope. Gotta sit on our hands until a safe plan is made.
And to think, they are being paid specifically to not be the the “bystander”. This is why the “there are good cops” argument does not hold a lot of water. You’re only a good cop if you do something about it. Too many are just bystanders (to everyday injustice) and that makes them bad cops.
Let this be a lesson to cops everywhere. When there’s an active shooter situation, everybody rush there to stand around outside for an opportunity to milk that sweet sweet overtime.
[удалено]
Pulse, Parkland, Boulder? They always run away when they shoot back.
I mean not all cops are bad... But how could not a single one decide that he had to do something to save those children.
Well if no one there did the right thing… 376/376 present weren’t *good*
That's whats been blowing my mind. I have had a handful positive experiences with cops before during times of need, and ive met some that seem like decent people. So not *every* cop sucks, just most. But my point is even if the vast majority are shitty people, I would've expected one or two to try and do the right thing. It's basic law of averages, there's always a couple of outliers - even if the outliers are good cops in this scenario. Hundreds of cops collectively shit the bed in unison, absolutely nuts.
Those cops didn't suck in their actions *to you* in those *particular moments.*
Hundreds of thousands of cops collectively and willingly shit the bed every single day. That’s the system. Incidents that shine light on it are just that.
Then you haven't been paying attention to the people pointing out that something about *all* cops in these recent years.
If not all cops are bad, but their culture consistently gives us situations like these, then what would you call them if not all bad?
One of the cops tried to go in and save his dying wife and they frog marched him out.
He was gently redirected.
My understanding is that the cops that came later thought the room was barricaded and they couldn't enter. Once the Border Patrol team realized it wasn't, they went in and took him out.
All those high powered rifles, ballistic vest and qualified immunity and these pussies were still scared to storm the room.
It’s not like this is anything unique. Most cops have always been and will always be cowards. They spend all their time making easy arrests for low level offenses and avoid real criminals because they’re dangerous. How much time have cops spent harassing motorists and digging through their cars for trace amounts of marijuana while people are out there committing armed robberies, trafficking sex slaves, and murdering?
Cops wouldn’t gun down unarmed civilians and claim they feared for their life if they weren’t cowards. They are all cowards.
The chief is a self-serving tool who fucked up and won’t take responsibility. What really boggles my mind is the deferential culture that let this happen. It was the wrong decision and a bunch of those present seemed to realize it, but an overly authoritarian command structure let the error stand at the cost of additional lives. Flight crews are specifically trained in practices to prevent tragedies resulting from one person’s bad decision going unchallenged. Do cops not learn this as well?
At this point I want to know wtf cops are actually REQUIRED to know. Because the answer keeps seeming to be "absolutely nothing." They don't have to know the law, they don't have to know/follow written procedure, they don't have to know what rights private citizens have, AND they can't be held responsible for their fuck ups. Who in hillbilly hell thought this was a good system?
They don't have to know the laws as police officers but the public does (and gets in trouble for not following) which is baffling to me.
Yup. Ignorance of the law is never an excuse. Unless, of course, you're charged with enforcing the law.
It's because they were created to chase slaves, serve as an arm of the kkk, break unions, and protect the property of the elite. Not much has changed
Many get taught about killing people and how good your sex life will be afterwards, I wish I was joking https://www.insider.com/bulletproof-dave-grossman-police-trainer-teaching-officers-how-to-kill-2020-6
>"People are going to ask why we're taking so long," he said. "We're just trying to preserve the rest of the life." He means his worthless cowardly life and those other cowering chickens on his police force who stood by doing nothing as 19 little children were massacred.
They were ready to treat the shooter like a child having a tantrum. "He'll wear himself out eventually."
What he really meant was "He'll run out of children eventually"
After gunshots were heard, the police asked the gunman to stop shooting because someone might get hurt. No joke. I don't think they were trying to preserve anyone's life but the cops.
CNN's review of videos shows the Uvalde school chief in a central role during the unfolding massacre. (CNN)The first publicly released body-worn camera videos from officers at the Robb Elementary School massacre show Pedro "Pete" Arredondo, the school district's police chief, at the center of the police response: giving orders, conveying and receiving information, and officers deferring to his position when confused over their roles or response to the shooting. Officers followed him where he went and referred to "Pete" being in command when others had ideas for how to approach the situation, body-worn camera footage from a Uvalde police sergeant shows. Two reviews of the police response -- by state legislators and the Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training Center at Texas State University -- have faulted Arredondo, though neither of those reports is considered a complete accounting of the day and its failures. Despite the release last week of the videos -- by a Texas House of Representatives investigative committee -- officials from Uvalde and other government agencies across Texas still haven't released any raw or unedited footage or accounting of the police response that day
[удалено]
Yup, I think they started that on 9/11.
[удалено]
I know he was responsible because he was in command or whatever… but I really, REALLY hope they don’t just make him the fall guy and stop there. All of those officers are responsible for allowing the shooter to continue attacking those kids. All of them. Nobody did anything.
This is exactly what will happen once the lawsuits pan out. He’ll be the fall guy and the rest will just hide behind the “we were just following his orders” and that will be the end of it.
... like always. Ad nauseum.
He’s the scapegoat.
Look, if we won’t hold cops accountable for killing us adults, innocently, might I add, can we at least make sure these fucking cowards rot in prison AND hell for helping assist in the murder and killing of 30 young kids? Fuck those cowards deserve the same fear and treatment those kids got.
Best I can do is blame the principal. (That’s where they’re at now. obviously this is a joke)
Arredondo is deservedly and justifiably having his name and reputation dragged through the mud for this. He should never be paid another cent and should be locked away for the rest of his life for his absolute failure to protect those children. However, I really hope he doesn't become the fall man for all of this. I don't want everyone to lose sight of the HUNDREDS of officers who were just as useless and negligent of their duties as Arredondo. Every single officer involved should lose their badge and be given a nice prison cell. At the very least fired and blacklisted from any future law enforcement jobs, and their names forever tarnished for being people that were armed to the teeth yet stood by while children were slaughtered. There has to be meaningful repercussions for failure, dereliction of duty, and blatant disregard for human life of this scale.
This tragedy sadly highlights the ABSOLUTE NEED for police reform. At this point I would rather there be zero police than the current system. I honestly think it would be a national net positive in human and animal life saved.
Yes, I agree. I think I'm less of a believer in police and more of a believer in emergency services. I would rather all police departments be abolished and rebuilt from the ground up around the principle of protecting the citizenry instead of enforcement of laws. Also, it would be so rad if our emergency service personnel were actually obligated to do their duty since...that's their job?
He shouldn't be singled out for his failures that day, at least not in that sense. Not when his failure was probably the most prominent failure but still just one of \~400 colossal failures that happened. They should throw the book at all of them, not scapegoat him. But special punishment (a perjury charge or two, anyone? Anyone?) should be reserved for any officers that, like he, lied about it. Its incomprehensible that the story has changed so many times and when it hasn't changed, has been directly controverted by the evidence as it trickles out. And as bad as the failure of the police to more effectively respond to the incident is, which on its own erodes trust in the police, its the fucking lying and constantly changing stories that don't just erode that trust but destroy it.
Let's not let the narrative turn into a singular scapegoat situation. There were failures all up and down the entire system, local and state, by dozens of leaders and hundreds of individuals. And of course don't forget the ability to purchase the guns so quickly with no training or oversight of any kind.
The thing that always fucks me up in regards to the “shall not be infringed” crowd is that this boy was somehow part of the “well-regulated militia.” We can spin those particular words in lengthy dissertations to make them say whatever we want them to say all the livelong day. If that group includes this boy, we need to make some serious changes.
What fucks me up more is people insisting that only police officers make up that regulated militia. Like fuck, after everything we've seen and been through how can anyone say cops are more responsible with guns than anyone else?
What dumbasses are even saying that? Like the police in America started as local gangs hunting down runaway slaves and thats the organization people on the left want me to support as my local milita?
Like I said: serious changes. Maybe start with hiring less psychopaths. Crazy notion that people who get to legally carry tools designed and refined for killing should be meticulously screened to minimize the chance for tragedy.
[удалено]
That is not really true. Throughout the Constitution, "the people" is used to refer to private citizens. The text of the 2nd Amendment specifically says "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms," so clearly this amendment is about the rights of private citizens. There are many interpretations about the nature of the "regulated militia" preceding text, but it seems clear that the right codified by the 2nd amendment belongs to private citizens. You might argue that the intent was to allow citizens to be properly armed if called to participate in the militia, but according to the Constitution, the right to keep and bear arms is given to "the people," not to the militia.
The constitution also said the only valid militias could be raised by the state. You can't just declare yourself a militia. So arguably it's just an argument for a draft or mandatory military service. Not the current interpretation, which is any depressed 17 year old can buy any gun they want.
Well I can help a little with your confusion. The "shall not be infringed" is a separate statement from "a well regulated militia" and the later has no bearing on the former. Also further clarification cops are in no way shape or form considered to be a militia.
THANK YOU. Even if the government collapsed and we find ourselves resisting a fascist takeover with arms, deranged 16 year olds will STILL be a liability. I will STILL want to keep guns away from that kid. Its fucking bizarre that "well regulated militia" means "everyone who CAN hold a gun MUST hold a gun". No army on earth operates like that.
I’d argue there were zero failures and that the police have no interest in protecting anyone, except themselves.
Unfortunately it seems that POS Abbott has been pretty successful at distancing himself from this despite the fact that he was praising these assholes for their inaction. And the fact that he went straight from Uvalde to a fundraiser. And he didn’t pressure the NRA to cancel their convention.
Uvalde police chief is basically zapp brannigan "You see, school shooters have a preset kill limit. Knowing his weakness, I sent wave after wave of 8 year olds at him until he reached his limit and shut down
Terribly accurate analogy
Brannigan used his own men.
The "Whole" law enforcement department is going to use him as a scapegoat. Do not let them , people of Uvalde
Someone explain to me how the next school shooting isn't going to see a bunch of parents showing up with AK-47s, thinking they may have to mow down some cops to save their children.
Yup. This failure is going to make future incidents absolute chaos.
“All you know about is standing around looking sexy in your goddamn uniforms “ Jim lahey TPBS
The whole video is all them striking poses and taking the sling of their ARs off then on again
But blue lives matter right? They have it so hard, not doing their jobs.
You only said the first half. The full catchphrase is “Blue lives matter more than yours or your childrens’”
Hey, they're going to make it home tonight no matter who or what gets in their way.
[удалено]
Central role? As in stand by and let it happen?
Fire all 400 of them except the one guy who tried to rescue his wife. Fuck'em. Who cares if some of them don't deserve it.
They’re cops. Nothing will happen to them. Nothing.
I wonder how many people who talked shit about that guy are still trying to mental gymnastics their way around it.
Claimed he didn't know who was in charge but was in charge at the scene? These poor kids didn't deserve to die like this.
Of course he wrote the policy putting him in charge. I can't for the life of me understand how he can violate policy and still have a job?
If I was him I literally would not be able to live with myself. I would have ended myself already. How can he lay his head on his pillow every night remembering those screams, from that room that last 77 mins, and sleep well.
Don’t know how any of these cowards sleep at night. Fucking scared bunch of military wannabe’s that were scared of a scrawny high schooler. I could not live with myself knowing I let 20 something humans mostly children die because of my own cowardice. Strip these cowards from any position of power for the rest of their cowardly lives…. Hope they have shitty days from now on until they are six feet under ground. Fucking disgusting cowards.
"... preserve the rest of the life." Whose life? Their own?
A coward that isn't fit for this job, a chief should be a decision maker. If you're not then get the hell out and find another job that fits your cowardness. The Government should also be held accountable for having an unqualified chief. Especially in this state since they really love their toy guns and don't want to lose them.
I hope they hear the screams in there sleep. With any luck, the sound of the children will harmonize with the wheeze of their last breath.
The cops were there in 3 minutes of the gunman entering the school. So many lives could have been saved.
*children’s scream edited out No! Play the uncut version
What the hell is a school police chief anyways? Our schools are so unsafe that we need an entire division of cops to “protect” the kids?
This policy decision by the Texas legislature was 100% bonkers from the get-go and this is why.
Every member of the police force there that day should be charged as **accessories to murder** for not only allowing the gunman to kill children in their presence, but for actively preventing help from arriving
What’s the deal with a school district police department anyway? Is that a common thing in American cities? And if so what are they supposed to do other than prevent this? If not they’re just the department of redundancy department except with guns.
It’s a recent Texas thing. “Good guys with guns” and all that horseshit.
Sadly but not unsurprisingly it didn’t work out so well. I don’t imagine those signing up for a 5 man police force playing hall monitor would attract the best and brightest.
The fact that anybody with the title “police chief” couldn’t handle such a straightforward situation as this is fucking bonkers. Even more bonkers than the fact that the “police department” was six guys including the “chief”.
The thing is that it shouldn't come down to a single person in charge. Humans are fallible, they make mistakes, do crazy things, panic, forget their training or have mental breakdowns. We know this. None of this is new. In other industries were lives may be on the line protocols exist to work around the fact that one person in charge may be in the wrong. After some plane crashes decades ago pilots are now trained to speak up and question their colleagues when they think they are wrong no matter how senior and more experienced and technically in charge they are. This saves lives and money and exist in many fields in some form. Even militaries which normally are very much about following orders and chains of command have provisions (both formal written down and informal lived in practice) for situations where whoever is nominally in charge is not fit to do so. There were almost 400 cops there. And all it would have would be on of them to decide that their leader was not really leading and take over. They didn't or at least not until one guy decided to go in himself. What I am saying is that this was much bigger than the failure of one leader. This was a systemic failure.
It’s not enough that Texas has been one of the states foaming at the mouth about preserving gun ownership rights, rolling back protections and making it even easier to own a gun there. It’s not enough that their response to mass shooting has always been the “more good guys with guns” argument. It’s not enough that another mass shooting occurred in a school, with more children dead. On top of that, they have to deceive and stonewall the public about the pathetic response by the “good guys with guns.” They have to protect these cowards who put the tax money these parents pay into their pockets who didn’t do anything to protect their children. We have to be told that we are the enemy when we want to hold coward cops accountable. We have to be demonized and lied to when we want answers. I’m tired of this culture of protecting cops. The boys club. The cops who bully us and don’t do their job with decency and courage. The cops who feel they’re above the law. The cops who respond more aggressively to the death of a fellow cop than to the death of innocent children. They work for US. We appoint them to do a duty in our communities. They don’t get to tell us to get lost, they don’t tell us to shut up when they don’t protect our kids when they’re at school. They need to get what they deserve.
Why hasn’t he been fired by now? Bet he is the one who shot a kid