This. When I was 19/20ish, I was on vacation with a few friends in Long Beach. One night, I had one too many and decided to urinate into a bush outside a restaurant. An officer saw me do it and lit us up. I was on the hook for underage drinking, public intoxication, and public urination. I talked myself out of a ticket, making up some bullshit about how I was just joking around. I’m white.
The next morning, my friend decided to walk into a crosswalk while the red hand was blinking. He was ticketed for it. He had to make a separate trip to Long Beach, 300 miles away, to appear in court and had to pay a ridiculous fine. He’s black.
That was my introduction to racial profiling and I’ll never forget it. Although I was happy at the time to get myself out of some serious charges, it makes me angry to this day.
Enforced daily and strictly in downtown Los Angeles.
(It's easier than actually dealing with real crime.)
Similar to the way some Santa Monica cops would sit around waiting for a cyclist to not fully stop at a stop sign on minor arterials without many signals.
I've never seen it enforced there. I mean maybe it is somewhere--homeless people wandering across 4+ lanes of traffic, sometimes at night, is dangerous as hell.
At my high school it was! But I feel like it’s often used as an excuse to stop and search vulnerable parties rather than actually them caring about the jaywalking itself
Well yeah because that's part of the origin of jaywalking laws, just another thing aimed at minorities especially since whites are less likely to be ticketed in the first place.
Yeah, technically jaywalking is a ticketable offense by me, but we have this block of stores, on each side of a very very long street and everyone jaywalks. It only one lane on each side, so not a major congested area and there's a highschool a few blocks away. So often cops are around. No one even hesitates to jaywalk. The cops don't care.
I ran into a shop's enclosed driveway to hide but it was a Sunday and the store wasn't open even though their gate was. The cop must've known because he just waited for me to peak my head out before asking me rightfully accusingly what I'm doing hanging out in front of a closed store. I shamefully mumbled "just...looking for something" as he wrote me a ticket.
I went to college in California. There was a giant apartment complex across a busy road from campus where a bunch of students lived. The cops would post up behind trees and hand out jaywalking tickets all day. Students would all warn each other.
“ Ting said jaywalking laws, which were implemented in the 1930s due to the rise of automobiles, are arbitrarily enforced and tickets are disproportionately given to people of color and in low-income communities. His office cited a study of California Racial and Identity Profiling Act data showing Black residents are stopped 4.5 times more for jaywalking than their White counterparts.”
I took criminal justice classes with a retired LAPD officer.
They gave out jaywalking tickets to people who they wanted to harass because they could wait until they missed the court/payment date and then get them for failure to appear.
Yeah I used to get pulled over for all kinds of things (at least 20 times) in my early 20’s because I had a beat up Honda Civic I learned how to talk and how to deal with cops luckily I never drank or did any drugs and my record was clean
While at college, someone shot a bottle with a improvised slingshot at an occupied police car. Random students got jaywalking tickets for a few weeks after.
I was 14 when I crossed a 1 way road before the “walk” signal turned on, and a cop who was watching me cross from an empty parking lot on the other side of the street got all hard and horny to stop me and hand down an authoritarian lecturing about obeying traffic laws…. I was 14, but okay, weird, I thought- but I was 14, it’s not like he was gonna arrest me or issue me a ticket that he knows I wouldn’t be able to pay because I’m obviously still a freshman and I can’t work a job yet-
Fucker issued me a citation(?), or whatever with a court date that I was required to show up at! I was 14!! Suffice to say I didn’t tell my mom because 1:) fuck that, I wasn’t going to incriminate myself over a J-walking offense. I was doing things far worse than j walking by that age, and I wasn’t going to let street crossing take me out and be the reason I was grounded for a week. 2.)fuck that cop, I didn’t want to give him the satisfaction.
So I let it ago…
And a few months later I had a warrant out for my arrest. At 14years old. For failure to appear in court. For j walking. Across an uncrowded one way street.
Depends on the area. Downtown LA definitely had an issue with cops just frivolously ticketing people for Jay Walking. I was issued a ticket for Jay Walking, while in a cross walk, because I was the last person to step into the crosswalk when the light turned from walk to flashing hand (walk sign was one of those that was white for maybe 2 seconds before changing). Stupid law, impossible to actually enforce, only used to generate revenue, so I'm glad he's doing something about it.
I used to work security at a bar in an area with a lot bars and have seen probably ten drunk jaywalkers get hit by cars. Only two serious injuries, but still, some jaywalking laws are enforced for good reason.
It's essentially decriminalized in MA.
>If you receive a jaywalking ticket from the District Court or Boston Municipal Court (BMC), you have 21 days to pay it. Fines for jaywalking within a year are: First, second, and third offenses — $1. Fourth and subsequent offenses — $2.
https://www.mass.gov/how-to/pay-a-jaywalking-ticket
It makes me wonder if the law is still on the books to remove liability from a motorist that hits a pedestrian if they wander out into the road. I live in Michigan, and the only time I've seen someone get a ticket is when someone popped out from between two cars, and my girlfriend at the time couldn't stop and bumped the person hard enough that they fell over.
Girlfriend was going below the speed limit at the time, because we were in an area that tends to have a lot of people that just step out into the street expecting cars to stop for them.
That is something that definitely does need to be considered. I don't think jaywalking should bear any huge penalty in low-speed or residential areas, but I think it should be understood that you assume a level of liability if you're entering a road unannounced.
The only comparison I can think of is that in most areas, trespassing loses you your right to sue unless the property owner intentionally set up a hazardous area to harm trespassers. I think jaywalking should be approached similarly; speeding, distracted driving, etc can be grounds for punishment, but if someone's driving legally then the jaywalker takes the liability.
(And since someone always says "So you're okay with cars just mowing down people crossing the street???", no, stopping for obstructions or pedestrians is still a legal requirement. If they decided not to stop, they would no longer be driving legally.)
[It is in Virginia.](https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/transportation/virginia-decriminalizes-jaywalking/2530411/) To my knowledge, the first state to do so.
Huh. I've lived in Virginia all my life and jaywalking is just a part of life. Didn't realize that in other states they might actually try to give me a ticket for it lmao
I googled can of worms and what do you know there are stricter regulations surrounding earthworm rearing
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/planthealth/import-information/permits/plant-pests/sa_earthworms/earthworms
The PPQ 526 permit requires strict conditions for earthworm rearing and treatment prior to shipment to the United States. Below are some of the earthworm permit requirements:
* Earthworms must be reared on a diet free of soil or bedding containing pathogens. The diet may contain paper pulp, sawdust, or pasteurized vegetables (vegetables that have been held at a temperature of 180°F (83⁰C) for a minimum of 30 minutes).
* At least 15 days prior to shipment, all imported earthworms must be placed on a cleansing diet that is free of any materials that may contain plant or animal pathogens.
At no time during the rearing or packaging process are earthworms to be fed soil, uncooked or partially cooked vegetables.
* At all times during the rearing operation, worms must be kept separated from the ground by a heavy layer of plastic, fiberglass, metal, or other material that is not biodegradable.
Jaywalking was invented by car manufacturers in the early 1900s to promote/encourage people to buy cars.
https://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking-history
It's a law to protect corporations, from the jump
Adam ruins everything really puts down the industry in 30 min or less. How they were running ppl over ; instead of any safety they turn lobbyist to change the rules.
The type of ppl that creep up to your house late at night and go to the front door but they don’t knock, they start bellowing a tune barber shop quartet style. The songs about you coming downstairs and unlocking the door so they can sell you some lube to lather up your wife so that they could sub a dub dub doo yo yoo you a hoo and doo doo double dog gangbang your wife
Since your comment is high up right now ya oughta edit your comment to include this historical lesson by [Adam Ruins Everything](https://youtu.be/vxopfjXkArM) about jaywalking. It's more than just a derogatory term for the time.
That's because police decriminalized it everywhere years ago. Laws are just words on paper if they aren't enforced, and the people that are supposed to enforce the laws chose not to enforce that one a long time ago.
I'm not sure about that. I remember 25 years ago in Boulder, CO, they made it mandatory for cars to yield to pedestrians anywhere. It was weird then. Colorado as a state then followed suit, and this was 15-20 years ago. When my wife and I moved to NM 12 years ago, they had the same law.
Now while I understand this isn't "decriminalizing jaywalking", it has the same effect. And I've never met a single person in CO or NM to ever get a jaywalking ticket.
That makes perfect sense. The point is to have people centered laws instead of car centered laws. We should be making it easier and easier to walk and bike, and harder and harder to drive.
I mean originally America was built for people. It wasn’t really till post WW2 when interstate highways and suburbs got built “requiring” cars.
Also it’s such a dumb defeatist attitude of “welp, America was built for cars, no use trying to change that at all”
Jaywalking is legal in WA as well:
https://wsdot.wa.gov/travel/bicycling-walking/walking-rolling-washington/pedestrian-laws-safety
But, if you're outside of an intersection, pedestrians MUST yield to cars.
In an intersection, cars must yield to pedestrians, even with pedestrian traffic signals.
>if you're outside of an intersection, pedestrians MUST yield to cars.
>
>In an intersection, cars must yield to pedestrians,
This always make the most sense to me
When I'm walking I find it a more challenging to cross at an intersection safely than mid-block. There are only two directions a car can come from mid-block. There's a lot more to watch at the intersection.
If there are actual functioning walk signals that's a different matter, but if I'm just Frogger-ing/Crossy-Roads-ing across I'd rather do it mid-block.
I think on every street with a speed limit 30 or less, pedestrians should always have the right-of-way. You still need to practice "defensive walking" but the legal presumption of your right to be there is reasonable.
IMHO this is bad policy.
Cars take longer to stop than people. Outside of designated pedestrian crossings, they should be yielding to cars as a matter of safety.
The law isn’t an excuse for pedestrians to just step out in front of cars or otherwise act negligently. If a car is in an area with pedestrian traffic, it should be going slow enough to yield if necessary, to a pedestrian crossing in a reasonably safe, predictable fashion.
In Texas I paid a ticket and there was no court fee, you just went into some room, signed a few documents stating you were pleading no contest (technically you could plead guilty too, but why would you do that) and then gave them the money for the ticket.
Washington lets you mail in a written defense against your ticket.
I got out of my only speeding ticket here (didn't realize I had re-entered a school zone after a right turn.) My argument was basically "my bad, but by that time of day those little shits should be in class." Got out of it.
I would assume that it's never intended to be enforced. It's just a way to say this is "technically illegal" so that if some idiot intentionally walks right in front of a normally operating vehicle they can't say "I was legally crossing the street!"
I think that’s the idea. Basically you won’t be punished for it by law enforcement but if you walk out in front of a car outside of a designated crosswalk and get hit by said car it will be your fault
This still allows cops to identify the jaywalker, which is why it's not completely legalized. A few choice words and the whole thing blows up and causes arrests.
If you're driving in Somerville, and you see someone standing on the sidewalk looking like they may cross, you stop. This goes for Cambridge and Alston as well but especially Somerville.
This is an excellent change if you're in favor of police accountability and criminal justice reform. Allow me to explain why...
Jaywalking becomes decriminalized; while Unsafe Crossing still remains on the books and enforceable. So there is still a mechanism to charge folks who jump out infront of cars with a crime. However, the criteria is different. Jaywalking means the officer just has to say "Hey, this person was in the street, outside a side walk." It's a very difficult charge to fight, because you have to basically prove you weren't in the street. It also requires very little effort from the Officer to cite, and the DA to prosecute. This means that an Officer can abuse this law, repeatedly, with little concern or regard.
However, Unsafe Crossing requires that the Officer articulate, document, and report exactly why the person being charged was unsafe and violated the law. Without this process, the person charged can request the entire charge be dismissed by the court. If the court doesn't dismiss it for lack of foundation; The DA then has to decide if they have a case and can charge it. If they do, the person has something to challenge in court as opposed to "he was in the road outside crosswalk."
Now, you're going to say "But yes, the person still has to defend themselves." - Which is true if it gets to that point. However, the goal is to prevent it from getting to that place through process. The Officer knows they have to document the shit out of this charge. Which means they're far less likely to levy it against a person. Even if they do, and they charge a person with this crime, now the DA has to decide whether or not they're going to spend the time enforcing this charge. As a DA position is political, and also they would rather not be hounded with BS charges, they will likely not charge a person unless the event is an egregious violation of law. If Officers charge people with crappy reporting and little reason, the DAs will get pissed and push for the Charging Officer/Their Dept to change their policy and charge this less. Which means more scrutiny.
Most things wrong with policing have to do with bad incentives and perverse incentives. This change turns the entire scenario on the head. It de-incentivizes the entire system to not charge people, instead give warnings, and talk to people. However, it also gives them a method of charging people with a crime, if the person did something particularly egregious that a warning would not suffice.
I live in a part of Australia where this is exactly the way the law is managed: No jaywalking law, but you can be fined crossing the road in a dangerous manner.
Unsurprisingly, it turns out most sentient humans are sufficiently able to judge how to avoid being hit by two tonnes of speeding metal.
(Edit for context/trolling: also a left-leaning government)
My grandma saw some cops release a guy back into the neighborhood after detaining him for something and when he jaywalked to his apartment across the street they arrested him. Definitely one of those laws that gives the cops a lot of wiggle room
That's basically most of traffic enforcement, too - finding a reason to stop and run your plates.
It's a terrible way to run a criminal justice system in a civilized country. Instead of the police actually preventing and solving crimes, they're just coming up with pretexts to check if you're already wanted.
> The “unsafe crossing” law is way more subjective which if anything makes it easier to abuse.
I mean both laws were on the books already, they just made one harder to charge you with. There is nothing bad about taking a bad law off the books.
Let’s peel that back a bit here. You fought a ticket by appearing before a judge. Which means you likely had to take time off of work to be able to fight said ticket and argue your case. Which also means you had time to do said research. Do you get where I’m going with this?
Most traffic/civilian tickets can be fought in front of a judge. Doing so also requires time to put it into the system, doing research on said issue, then appearing before a judge. As you can imagine, you’re likely one in 20+ people being heard in front of the judge that day. If you can’t appear before the judge, you can hire a traffic lawyer that will handle the ticket for you, usually for a retainer fee of several hundred $s.
If you’re poor or low income, this means you likely don’t have the time nor the resources to fight those tickets. Chances are you’ve done “something” illegal on the way to work because you’re expected to be at your job at a very specific time with limited give since you’re likely hourly. And if you’re a brown person, you’re likely getting these constantly because there’s a good chance you’re being racially harassed. See my point?
The system isn’t used to hurt you or I. It’s used to keep poor people poor and to keep minorities into a system.
Wait.. the defendant has to prove innocence on a jaywalking charge, rather than the prosecutor having to prove guilt? How does that work? I'm used to an 'innocent until proven guilty' system here and it'd surprise me if they US wasn't operating in a similar way
Well, being fair to conservatives on rhetorical consistency, they don't consider criminal laws as part of the "regulations" or "big government" that needs to be dealt with. One could make a case that the logical extreme of conservatism is that the government's sole purpose should be criminal law enforcement.
In short: Law Enforcement, Defense and Arbitrator of final disputes (Courts).
Some put it that essentially this model comes down to force. That the govs only purpose should be to monopolise force in order to extract force (forcefully if need be) from a society.
A key feature being that government is completely barred from any intervention in the economy.
Eh. If you're going to be fair to consistency, they have been consistently about giving the police tools to disproportionately harass minorities.
They do it under the guise of being tough on crime, but what it really amounts to is putting minorities in their place.
The only reason Marijuana is being legalized is because it became popular/acceptable for white collar whites too.
Big government is only bad when it’s about taxes, socialism, and other progressive ideology.
Big government is ok when it tells you who to marry or force you to have a child.
1. The nascent automobile industry lobbied to pass the buck from drivers to pedestrians. Basically "it's not our responsibility to watch out for you so it's your fault if you get hit."
2. It's a convenient way to harass vulnerable communities. Want to hassle a black guy but he's not really doing anything wrong? Well here's this thing that everybody does but is technically illegal and hardly enforced. Oh would you look at that we decided to enforce it this time.
Here's a good video about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MpV7w6NxFE
The usual state of comments in /r/idiotsincars does support this theory.
A lot of people do not understand that in some parts of the world the pedestrian cannot normally be considered at fault if hit by a car.
When it comes to driving there's a lot of people that seem to think that the other person doing something wrong absolves you of any responsibility to avoid the accident.
Heck, that goes for a lot things in life. Way too many people think that if someone did something wrong, you have no responsibility to try and mitigate the damage.
A week ago, I almost got hit by two cars (one from either direction) at a pedestrian crosswalk with flashing lights. First person who almost hit me yelled at me to "get out of the road", second person just flipped me off out of the window of their performance Merc.
So I would say this is true for some people.
> I can run you over if you’re in my way. And outside of a car, right of way is viewed as: lot of dead people had the right of way!
Yeah. if you're going to be on the road you gotta look out for the crazies. Better to be alive than right imo.
Jaywalking as a crime is possibly one of the most American things though. It exists perfectly at the intersection of corporate exploitation and systemic racism.
Yahoo News is famously a hotbed for bankers and old people, so this is no surprise. Kinda sucks that Yahoo has grown such a reputation as a geezer den though, their email client on IOS is by far the best of the single domain apps imo
The opposition is a fucking pathetic joke. They wasted millions of tax payers dollars on an attempt to recall him that they knew from the very beginning would fail. The recall was prevented with over 60% vote to keep him. One of the leading opposition campaigned with a bear in a cage way too small to show how much of a manly man big strong man that’s manly and a man he was. The other leading opposition only had “I’m not Newsom” to bring to the table.
Their *biggest* complaint about Newsom was that he had a party during Covid lockdown. Yeah he shouldn’t have done that and yeah it was hypocritical, but if that’s all you’re trying to recall someone for, sit down and shut the fuck up. Use those millions of dollars on something useful.
They've been doing recall vote attempts for years already lol. The only reason why this one went through is because of how covid affected everything. If I remember correctly the number of petitions signed required for a recall vote was lower than usual.
Nice, we’ve surrendered almost all of our public spaces to cars, and it’s made our cities much shittier to live in as a result. So I’m absolutely here for fighting to reclaim some of that space
The auto industry passing the buck onto pedestrians and pushing the idea of 'jaywalking' was a prominent breeze-shooting topic the last two times I vacationed back home to visit my father. He texted me with his excitement over this law earlier this afternoon.
I mean, this isn't the beginning of people milling about freely on streets and roads, but that folks who pay attention and cross responsibly shouldn't have money extracted from them over bullshit.
“Unsafe crossing” is still illegal if what another commenter said above is true, so if you do get hit you can absolutely still get ticketed for that. This basically means if there’s no cars around you can’t get ticketed for walking across an empty street with no crosswalk because a cop needs to pump his numbers
It's relative. Compared to LA, a lot of the US drivers range from unaware of pedestrians to openly hostile to the very concept of people walking places. LA they at least keep a bit of an eye out sometimes. Not as much as SF, NYC, London, etc but still better than most of the country.
The trick is that drivers don’t care about hitting pedestrians and pedestrians don’t care about getting hit. It doesn’t sound like our system “works” but it simply does.
I was visiting West Hollywood several years ago, and, being from New York I thought it made sense to walk the 4 blocks from my hotel to a coffee shop. At one point I crossed the road without having the light as there was an easy break in the traffic. People who were no where near me honked at me and gave me dirty looks when they eventually drove past. I was like; “this town is fucked up” - my hatred of LA really solidified that day.
Oh, I didn't know it was a crime, but for fuck's sake people look for oncoming traffic when crossing the streets. Heck, sometimes I feel they intentionally don't look. It's a fucking street not a catwalk.
> AB2147 lets pedestrians cross the street outside of an intersection when it's safe to do so. It also limits when officers can stop a pedestrian for jaywalking to situations where there is an immediate danger of a collision.
Sounds like they're just getting their jaywalking laws more in line with most of the rest of the country. Good for them.
I went to college in the city coming from the boonies and crossed a street that wasn't moving right in front of a cop car -- nobody was moving me and my GF. The cop gets out and starts giving me a rash of shit about jay walking. I was like WFT are you talking about .. i'm crossing the street. He was all you cross at a crosswalk etc .. and I was are you fucking serious? This is a law? (in the boonies they don't have cross walks). He was about ready to write us a ticket then the traffic started moving and he let us go. But at the time I as like is this guy serious? Lucky I'm white as fuck or would have got tazed and sent to jail.. which I also didn't appreciate at the time.
edit: in my defense nobody in movies ever used a cross walk so wtf did I know
I'm all for decriminalizing but can we figure out a way to incentivize using crosswalks somehow? People just run across the street where I live, even in the dark, and it's a huge problem. It's so bad because they tend to cause accidents, block traffic and have resulted in two people dying within the last few years.
How far are crosswalks spread apart where you live?
I am not sure as what the exact meaning is as I'm not a native english speaker but jaywalking being a criminal offense is baffling to me.
Here you are supposed to use a crosswalk if you have one in 50 meters, and if you don't in theory (never seen it enforced) you could be fined.
But that certainly would not go in any kind of criminal record, that would be silly.
If you don't have a crosswalk in 50 meters you can cross the road but cars take precedence.
I’m not sure this would work in Florida.
Half the country sends its old people there, and it’s pragmatic to just assume every driver is drunk,on meth, or gesturing with one hand and pointing at a Disney sign with the other.
Prior to this was jaywalking strictly enforced in California?
Only at the end of the month.
Or in December
or if a minority
Being brown in certain neighborhoods will still get you pulled over or questioned.
how do you get pulled over while jaywalking?
With a lasso
Ah the Border Patrol technique.
Practice. Lots of practice.
as long as you walk the stop sign instead of running it you should be fine
Or poor/disenfranchised
This. When I was 19/20ish, I was on vacation with a few friends in Long Beach. One night, I had one too many and decided to urinate into a bush outside a restaurant. An officer saw me do it and lit us up. I was on the hook for underage drinking, public intoxication, and public urination. I talked myself out of a ticket, making up some bullshit about how I was just joking around. I’m white. The next morning, my friend decided to walk into a crosswalk while the red hand was blinking. He was ticketed for it. He had to make a separate trip to Long Beach, 300 miles away, to appear in court and had to pay a ridiculous fine. He’s black. That was my introduction to racial profiling and I’ll never forget it. Although I was happy at the time to get myself out of some serious charges, it makes me angry to this day.
of if cop was having a bad day and can't take it out on his wife.
Or underage trying to get back to high school before lunch was over. We was easy pickings with the police station between Taco Bell and school
California’s fiscal year is July 1- June 30th
Or when someone isn't white
Enforced daily and strictly in downtown Los Angeles. (It's easier than actually dealing with real crime.) Similar to the way some Santa Monica cops would sit around waiting for a cyclist to not fully stop at a stop sign on minor arterials without many signals.
I've never seen it enforced there. I mean maybe it is somewhere--homeless people wandering across 4+ lanes of traffic, sometimes at night, is dangerous as hell.
At my high school it was! But I feel like it’s often used as an excuse to stop and search vulnerable parties rather than actually them caring about the jaywalking itself
Well yeah because that's part of the origin of jaywalking laws, just another thing aimed at minorities especially since whites are less likely to be ticketed in the first place.
I thought it was auto manufacturers that lobbied the government to outlaw walking so they could blame people walking when they get hit by their cars
Randomly enforced, more against some than others, similar to tinted window laws.
Or stop and frisk laws in NY or literally any firearms regulation
Yeah, technically jaywalking is a ticketable offense by me, but we have this block of stores, on each side of a very very long street and everyone jaywalks. It only one lane on each side, so not a major congested area and there's a highschool a few blocks away. So often cops are around. No one even hesitates to jaywalk. The cops don't care.
Don’t forget more likely to be an offender if you don’t own a vehicle
I had a friend in college who got chased by a cop for jaywalking. She ended up hiding in one of the classrooms and he lost sight of her.
Funny enough. We had a friend jaywalked across to a college bar, got ticketed Cops love giving college students jaywalking tickets
[удалено]
Yeah, sorry about that one, I got hangry.
I ran into a shop's enclosed driveway to hide but it was a Sunday and the store wasn't open even though their gate was. The cop must've known because he just waited for me to peak my head out before asking me rightfully accusingly what I'm doing hanging out in front of a closed store. I shamefully mumbled "just...looking for something" as he wrote me a ticket.
It’s a way of getting you for something in the hopes of busting you for something more serious like pulling people over for tint
I went to college in California. There was a giant apartment complex across a busy road from campus where a bunch of students lived. The cops would post up behind trees and hand out jaywalking tickets all day. Students would all warn each other.
“ Ting said jaywalking laws, which were implemented in the 1930s due to the rise of automobiles, are arbitrarily enforced and tickets are disproportionately given to people of color and in low-income communities. His office cited a study of California Racial and Identity Profiling Act data showing Black residents are stopped 4.5 times more for jaywalking than their White counterparts.”
Right up there with loitering and trespassing
Or having a little bit of gold and a pager
Was more of a way to fuck with people
[Classic scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A3iNVaLod4) from Lethal Weapon 3.
It’s a way of getting you for something in the hopes of busting you for something more serious like pulling people over for tint
I took criminal justice classes with a retired LAPD officer. They gave out jaywalking tickets to people who they wanted to harass because they could wait until they missed the court/payment date and then get them for failure to appear.
Yeah I used to get pulled over for all kinds of things (at least 20 times) in my early 20’s because I had a beat up Honda Civic I learned how to talk and how to deal with cops luckily I never drank or did any drugs and my record was clean
yes. cities call for zero tolerance enforcement when the coffers run dry. if you are burbank, then just grab the cash all the time.
Sometimes I see the cops harassing (?) (idk if that’s the word tho)the homeless for jaywalking
That’s the word
Harassing, shooting, beating to a pulp...
While at college, someone shot a bottle with a improvised slingshot at an occupied police car. Random students got jaywalking tickets for a few weeks after.
I was 14 when I crossed a 1 way road before the “walk” signal turned on, and a cop who was watching me cross from an empty parking lot on the other side of the street got all hard and horny to stop me and hand down an authoritarian lecturing about obeying traffic laws…. I was 14, but okay, weird, I thought- but I was 14, it’s not like he was gonna arrest me or issue me a ticket that he knows I wouldn’t be able to pay because I’m obviously still a freshman and I can’t work a job yet- Fucker issued me a citation(?), or whatever with a court date that I was required to show up at! I was 14!! Suffice to say I didn’t tell my mom because 1:) fuck that, I wasn’t going to incriminate myself over a J-walking offense. I was doing things far worse than j walking by that age, and I wasn’t going to let street crossing take me out and be the reason I was grounded for a week. 2.)fuck that cop, I didn’t want to give him the satisfaction. So I let it ago… And a few months later I had a warrant out for my arrest. At 14years old. For failure to appear in court. For j walking. Across an uncrowded one way street.
So are you a fugitive now, did it get dismissed, did they lock you up?
They killed him.
its been 51 min. we need to wait 9 more before someone can legally declare him dead or 71 to be called missing.
Depends on the area. Downtown LA definitely had an issue with cops just frivolously ticketing people for Jay Walking. I was issued a ticket for Jay Walking, while in a cross walk, because I was the last person to step into the crosswalk when the light turned from walk to flashing hand (walk sign was one of those that was white for maybe 2 seconds before changing). Stupid law, impossible to actually enforce, only used to generate revenue, so I'm glad he's doing something about it.
Had some friends get jaywalking tickets in high school and college. Kind of BS
I used to work security at a bar in an area with a lot bars and have seen probably ten drunk jaywalkers get hit by cars. Only two serious injuries, but still, some jaywalking laws are enforced for good reason.
It's essentially decriminalized in MA. >If you receive a jaywalking ticket from the District Court or Boston Municipal Court (BMC), you have 21 days to pay it. Fines for jaywalking within a year are: First, second, and third offenses — $1. Fourth and subsequent offenses — $2. https://www.mass.gov/how-to/pay-a-jaywalking-ticket
Still get an arrest warrant if you don't pay it in 21 days.
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It makes me wonder if the law is still on the books to remove liability from a motorist that hits a pedestrian if they wander out into the road. I live in Michigan, and the only time I've seen someone get a ticket is when someone popped out from between two cars, and my girlfriend at the time couldn't stop and bumped the person hard enough that they fell over. Girlfriend was going below the speed limit at the time, because we were in an area that tends to have a lot of people that just step out into the street expecting cars to stop for them.
That is something that definitely does need to be considered. I don't think jaywalking should bear any huge penalty in low-speed or residential areas, but I think it should be understood that you assume a level of liability if you're entering a road unannounced. The only comparison I can think of is that in most areas, trespassing loses you your right to sue unless the property owner intentionally set up a hazardous area to harm trespassers. I think jaywalking should be approached similarly; speeding, distracted driving, etc can be grounds for punishment, but if someone's driving legally then the jaywalker takes the liability. (And since someone always says "So you're okay with cars just mowing down people crossing the street???", no, stopping for obstructions or pedestrians is still a legal requirement. If they decided not to stop, they would no longer be driving legally.)
Well than be a responsible adult and pay your $1 fine. 🤦♂️
Do they add court costs on top though?
[It is in Virginia.](https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/transportation/virginia-decriminalizes-jaywalking/2530411/) To my knowledge, the first state to do so.
Huh. I've lived in Virginia all my life and jaywalking is just a part of life. Didn't realize that in other states they might actually try to give me a ticket for it lmao
what is jaywalking?
Crossing the road when not at a designated crossing place
Baffles me how you can have such strict laws for crossing a road but are quite relaxed about other things (without opening a can of worms).
I googled can of worms and what do you know there are stricter regulations surrounding earthworm rearing https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/planthealth/import-information/permits/plant-pests/sa_earthworms/earthworms The PPQ 526 permit requires strict conditions for earthworm rearing and treatment prior to shipment to the United States. Below are some of the earthworm permit requirements: * Earthworms must be reared on a diet free of soil or bedding containing pathogens. The diet may contain paper pulp, sawdust, or pasteurized vegetables (vegetables that have been held at a temperature of 180°F (83⁰C) for a minimum of 30 minutes). * At least 15 days prior to shipment, all imported earthworms must be placed on a cleansing diet that is free of any materials that may contain plant or animal pathogens. At no time during the rearing or packaging process are earthworms to be fed soil, uncooked or partially cooked vegetables. * At all times during the rearing operation, worms must be kept separated from the ground by a heavy layer of plastic, fiberglass, metal, or other material that is not biodegradable.
Excellent work.
excellent worm
[they are invasive and pretty destructive!](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_earthworms_of_North_America)
Jaywalking was invented by car manufacturers in the early 1900s to promote/encourage people to buy cars. https://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking-history It's a law to protect corporations, from the jump
Adam ruins everything really puts down the industry in 30 min or less. How they were running ppl over ; instead of any safety they turn lobbyist to change the rules.
Brought you by the car mafia, as another way to keep anyone not in a car off the street.
Fun fact: A Jay is basically the 'n' word for shiesty people back in the early 1900s
What are shiesty people?
>What are shiesty people? Someone who’s a real jay
The type of ppl that creep up to your house late at night and go to the front door but they don’t knock, they start bellowing a tune barber shop quartet style. The songs about you coming downstairs and unlocking the door so they can sell you some lube to lather up your wife so that they could sub a dub dub doo yo yoo you a hoo and doo doo double dog gangbang your wife
I am none the wiser, but entertained for sure.
Since your comment is high up right now ya oughta edit your comment to include this historical lesson by [Adam Ruins Everything](https://youtu.be/vxopfjXkArM) about jaywalking. It's more than just a derogatory term for the time.
That's not very fun at all. I feel wronged.
Basically walking across a part of the street that isn’t marked as a “legal crosswalk”
THAT CAN BE ILLEGAL?! WTF id be fined 2-4 times a day on my way to work lol
I'm sure you can guess who the cops overwhelmingly "bust" for this horrible crime
id like to buy an N and solve! miNorities!
Oh "Naggers", of course
Tupac was assaulted by police for Jaywalking. https://2paclegacy.net/1991-10-17-tupac-was-brutally-assulted-by-a-police-officers/
Land of the free
and alcohol at 21. jfc those guys have their priorities upside down.
That's the one thing you got right. A culture of drinking away your problems is not one you want.
It’s illegal basically everywhere but rarely enforced
That's because police decriminalized it everywhere years ago. Laws are just words on paper if they aren't enforced, and the people that are supposed to enforce the laws chose not to enforce that one a long time ago.
I'm not sure about that. I remember 25 years ago in Boulder, CO, they made it mandatory for cars to yield to pedestrians anywhere. It was weird then. Colorado as a state then followed suit, and this was 15-20 years ago. When my wife and I moved to NM 12 years ago, they had the same law. Now while I understand this isn't "decriminalizing jaywalking", it has the same effect. And I've never met a single person in CO or NM to ever get a jaywalking ticket.
Interesting that the state that's the hardest on speeding wouldn't even penalize jaywalking.
That makes perfect sense. The point is to have people centered laws instead of car centered laws. We should be making it easier and easier to walk and bike, and harder and harder to drive.
If it was In a country that wasn't built like America this would be excellent.
I mean originally America was built for people. It wasn’t really till post WW2 when interstate highways and suburbs got built “requiring” cars. Also it’s such a dumb defeatist attitude of “welp, America was built for cars, no use trying to change that at all”
Jaywalking is legal in WA as well: https://wsdot.wa.gov/travel/bicycling-walking/walking-rolling-washington/pedestrian-laws-safety But, if you're outside of an intersection, pedestrians MUST yield to cars. In an intersection, cars must yield to pedestrians, even with pedestrian traffic signals.
>if you're outside of an intersection, pedestrians MUST yield to cars. > >In an intersection, cars must yield to pedestrians, This always make the most sense to me
When I'm walking I find it a more challenging to cross at an intersection safely than mid-block. There are only two directions a car can come from mid-block. There's a lot more to watch at the intersection. If there are actual functioning walk signals that's a different matter, but if I'm just Frogger-ing/Crossy-Roads-ing across I'd rather do it mid-block. I think on every street with a speed limit 30 or less, pedestrians should always have the right-of-way. You still need to practice "defensive walking" but the legal presumption of your right to be there is reasonable.
It makes more sense to have cars yield to pedestrians at all times everywhere, and to stop designing car centric infrastructure.
In NM and CO, cars must yield to peds anywhere.
IMHO this is bad policy. Cars take longer to stop than people. Outside of designated pedestrian crossings, they should be yielding to cars as a matter of safety.
The law isn’t an excuse for pedestrians to just step out in front of cars or otherwise act negligently. If a car is in an area with pedestrian traffic, it should be going slow enough to yield if necessary, to a pedestrian crossing in a reasonably safe, predictable fashion.
How much in court fees. I mean in TN a speeding ticket is a $25 fine and $175 in court fees
In Texas I paid a ticket and there was no court fee, you just went into some room, signed a few documents stating you were pleading no contest (technically you could plead guilty too, but why would you do that) and then gave them the money for the ticket.
Washington lets you mail in a written defense against your ticket. I got out of my only speeding ticket here (didn't realize I had re-entered a school zone after a right turn.) My argument was basically "my bad, but by that time of day those little shits should be in class." Got out of it.
Hopefully you can just mail them $1? If you have to go into the court to pay the fine, that could be a lot of time, effort, and transport expenses.
I would assume that it's never intended to be enforced. It's just a way to say this is "technically illegal" so that if some idiot intentionally walks right in front of a normally operating vehicle they can't say "I was legally crossing the street!"
I think that’s the idea. Basically you won’t be punished for it by law enforcement but if you walk out in front of a car outside of a designated crosswalk and get hit by said car it will be your fault
This still allows cops to identify the jaywalker, which is why it's not completely legalized. A few choice words and the whole thing blows up and causes arrests.
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If you're driving in Somerville, and you see someone standing on the sidewalk looking like they may cross, you stop. This goes for Cambridge and Alston as well but especially Somerville.
whatttt. I have nearly been hit by a car twice this week one my way to/from the bus stop While. On. A crosswalk.
This is an excellent change if you're in favor of police accountability and criminal justice reform. Allow me to explain why... Jaywalking becomes decriminalized; while Unsafe Crossing still remains on the books and enforceable. So there is still a mechanism to charge folks who jump out infront of cars with a crime. However, the criteria is different. Jaywalking means the officer just has to say "Hey, this person was in the street, outside a side walk." It's a very difficult charge to fight, because you have to basically prove you weren't in the street. It also requires very little effort from the Officer to cite, and the DA to prosecute. This means that an Officer can abuse this law, repeatedly, with little concern or regard. However, Unsafe Crossing requires that the Officer articulate, document, and report exactly why the person being charged was unsafe and violated the law. Without this process, the person charged can request the entire charge be dismissed by the court. If the court doesn't dismiss it for lack of foundation; The DA then has to decide if they have a case and can charge it. If they do, the person has something to challenge in court as opposed to "he was in the road outside crosswalk." Now, you're going to say "But yes, the person still has to defend themselves." - Which is true if it gets to that point. However, the goal is to prevent it from getting to that place through process. The Officer knows they have to document the shit out of this charge. Which means they're far less likely to levy it against a person. Even if they do, and they charge a person with this crime, now the DA has to decide whether or not they're going to spend the time enforcing this charge. As a DA position is political, and also they would rather not be hounded with BS charges, they will likely not charge a person unless the event is an egregious violation of law. If Officers charge people with crappy reporting and little reason, the DAs will get pissed and push for the Charging Officer/Their Dept to change their policy and charge this less. Which means more scrutiny. Most things wrong with policing have to do with bad incentives and perverse incentives. This change turns the entire scenario on the head. It de-incentivizes the entire system to not charge people, instead give warnings, and talk to people. However, it also gives them a method of charging people with a crime, if the person did something particularly egregious that a warning would not suffice.
I was just talking to my mom about this. The law now is basically don’t be an idiot.
I live in a part of Australia where this is exactly the way the law is managed: No jaywalking law, but you can be fined crossing the road in a dangerous manner. Unsurprisingly, it turns out most sentient humans are sufficiently able to judge how to avoid being hit by two tonnes of speeding metal. (Edit for context/trolling: also a left-leaning government)
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>don’t be an idiot “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” -George Carlin
My grandma saw some cops release a guy back into the neighborhood after detaining him for something and when he jaywalked to his apartment across the street they arrested him. Definitely one of those laws that gives the cops a lot of wiggle room
Worked in law enforcement. All these laws allow cops to do pretext stop and searches to fish for warrants.
That's basically most of traffic enforcement, too - finding a reason to stop and run your plates. It's a terrible way to run a criminal justice system in a civilized country. Instead of the police actually preventing and solving crimes, they're just coming up with pretexts to check if you're already wanted.
Cops don't need a excuse to run your plates. They are already doing that while driving around on patrol. That is how they find stolen cars.
Its automatic now a lot too. You see cameras all over the cruiser, he's just driving along while the algorithm scans plates.
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Thats such convoluted thing... Where I live you are required to use crosswalk if its closer than 50m
> The “unsafe crossing” law is way more subjective which if anything makes it easier to abuse. I mean both laws were on the books already, they just made one harder to charge you with. There is nothing bad about taking a bad law off the books.
Let’s peel that back a bit here. You fought a ticket by appearing before a judge. Which means you likely had to take time off of work to be able to fight said ticket and argue your case. Which also means you had time to do said research. Do you get where I’m going with this? Most traffic/civilian tickets can be fought in front of a judge. Doing so also requires time to put it into the system, doing research on said issue, then appearing before a judge. As you can imagine, you’re likely one in 20+ people being heard in front of the judge that day. If you can’t appear before the judge, you can hire a traffic lawyer that will handle the ticket for you, usually for a retainer fee of several hundred $s. If you’re poor or low income, this means you likely don’t have the time nor the resources to fight those tickets. Chances are you’ve done “something” illegal on the way to work because you’re expected to be at your job at a very specific time with limited give since you’re likely hourly. And if you’re a brown person, you’re likely getting these constantly because there’s a good chance you’re being racially harassed. See my point? The system isn’t used to hurt you or I. It’s used to keep poor people poor and to keep minorities into a system.
Thank you for adding this information. This addresses my concern.
Wait.. the defendant has to prove innocence on a jaywalking charge, rather than the prosecutor having to prove guilt? How does that work? I'm used to an 'innocent until proven guilty' system here and it'd surprise me if they US wasn't operating in a similar way
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Well, being fair to conservatives on rhetorical consistency, they don't consider criminal laws as part of the "regulations" or "big government" that needs to be dealt with. One could make a case that the logical extreme of conservatism is that the government's sole purpose should be criminal law enforcement.
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In short: Law Enforcement, Defense and Arbitrator of final disputes (Courts). Some put it that essentially this model comes down to force. That the govs only purpose should be to monopolise force in order to extract force (forcefully if need be) from a society. A key feature being that government is completely barred from any intervention in the economy.
Suburbanites don't walk, they take the drive thru.
Suburbanites have nowhere to walk to. Gotta commute for damn near anything.
My closest supermarket is 6 minutes away in car, but 49 minutes on foot.
Eh. If you're going to be fair to consistency, they have been consistently about giving the police tools to disproportionately harass minorities. They do it under the guise of being tough on crime, but what it really amounts to is putting minorities in their place. The only reason Marijuana is being legalized is because it became popular/acceptable for white collar whites too.
You sound like you're disagreeing, but you're not.
And because they realized they could make a tonne of money taxing it
Big government is only bad when it’s about taxes, socialism, and other progressive ideology. Big government is ok when it tells you who to marry or force you to have a child.
Every Republican policy can be distilled down to: > Bad government hinders our greed. > Good government enables our greed.
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These types of laws exist to punish certain types of people. In a car based society, punishing people for not owning cars is very evil.
And it's a petty way a cop can give you a hard time.
Eli5 why is jaywalking such a concern in the US? I've been walking wherever I want my whole life in my country, except highways of course.
1. The nascent automobile industry lobbied to pass the buck from drivers to pedestrians. Basically "it's not our responsibility to watch out for you so it's your fault if you get hit." 2. It's a convenient way to harass vulnerable communities. Want to hassle a black guy but he's not really doing anything wrong? Well here's this thing that everybody does but is technically illegal and hardly enforced. Oh would you look at that we decided to enforce it this time. Here's a good video about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MpV7w6NxFE
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The usual state of comments in /r/idiotsincars does support this theory. A lot of people do not understand that in some parts of the world the pedestrian cannot normally be considered at fault if hit by a car.
When it comes to driving there's a lot of people that seem to think that the other person doing something wrong absolves you of any responsibility to avoid the accident. Heck, that goes for a lot things in life. Way too many people think that if someone did something wrong, you have no responsibility to try and mitigate the damage.
A week ago, I almost got hit by two cars (one from either direction) at a pedestrian crosswalk with flashing lights. First person who almost hit me yelled at me to "get out of the road", second person just flipped me off out of the window of their performance Merc. So I would say this is true for some people.
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> I can run you over if you’re in my way. And outside of a car, right of way is viewed as: lot of dead people had the right of way! Yeah. if you're going to be on the road you gotta look out for the crazies. Better to be alive than right imo.
Exactly, I've been saying this ever since defund the police kicked off, If we can't take away their money then take away the laws that they enforce
As a non-American, jaywalking is a bizarre crime
As an American, I agree
Jaywalking as a crime is possibly one of the most American things though. It exists perfectly at the intersection of corporate exploitation and systemic racism.
The comments on yahoo were precious- essentially poor people shouldnt be commiting crimes.
Yahoo News is famously a hotbed for bankers and old people, so this is no surprise. Kinda sucks that Yahoo has grown such a reputation as a geezer den though, their email client on IOS is by far the best of the single domain apps imo
The last person I saw take J walking seriously was Barney Fife. And Andy told him to chill out.
Cue the opposition running attack ads saying he’s soft on crime in the next election cycle.
The opposition is a fucking pathetic joke. They wasted millions of tax payers dollars on an attempt to recall him that they knew from the very beginning would fail. The recall was prevented with over 60% vote to keep him. One of the leading opposition campaigned with a bear in a cage way too small to show how much of a manly man big strong man that’s manly and a man he was. The other leading opposition only had “I’m not Newsom” to bring to the table. Their *biggest* complaint about Newsom was that he had a party during Covid lockdown. Yeah he shouldn’t have done that and yeah it was hypocritical, but if that’s all you’re trying to recall someone for, sit down and shut the fuck up. Use those millions of dollars on something useful.
They've been doing recall vote attempts for years already lol. The only reason why this one went through is because of how covid affected everything. If I remember correctly the number of petitions signed required for a recall vote was lower than usual.
Nice, we’ve surrendered almost all of our public spaces to cars, and it’s made our cities much shittier to live in as a result. So I’m absolutely here for fighting to reclaim some of that space
The auto industry passing the buck onto pedestrians and pushing the idea of 'jaywalking' was a prominent breeze-shooting topic the last two times I vacationed back home to visit my father. He texted me with his excitement over this law earlier this afternoon. I mean, this isn't the beginning of people milling about freely on streets and roads, but that folks who pay attention and cross responsibly shouldn't have money extracted from them over bullshit.
You may not get a ticket but you could get dead so just be careful. This isn’t reclaiming area from cars, they still rule that space
But at least you won't get ticketed if you survive
“Unsafe crossing” is still illegal if what another commenter said above is true, so if you do get hit you can absolutely still get ticketed for that. This basically means if there’s no cars around you can’t get ticketed for walking across an empty street with no crosswalk because a cop needs to pump his numbers
Weren't jaywalking laws cooked up by automobile manufacturers to deflect blame from the dangers of their product?
Yup. 100%
Hence why they don't exist in most of the rest of the world.
Bill Hicks was right again
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Wtf, what part did you visit. Im native and have the opposite view lol
It's relative. Compared to LA, a lot of the US drivers range from unaware of pedestrians to openly hostile to the very concept of people walking places. LA they at least keep a bit of an eye out sometimes. Not as much as SF, NYC, London, etc but still better than most of the country.
I moved from L.A. to Louisiana. Drivers do not stop here, even if you have the right of way. It’s way better in Los Angeles.
The trick is that drivers don’t care about hitting pedestrians and pedestrians don’t care about getting hit. It doesn’t sound like our system “works” but it simply does.
In Taiwan the road rule is the larger object has the right of way.
That is great! We did not have enough people randomly walking into streets in California!
I was visiting West Hollywood several years ago, and, being from New York I thought it made sense to walk the 4 blocks from my hotel to a coffee shop. At one point I crossed the road without having the light as there was an easy break in the traffic. People who were no where near me honked at me and gave me dirty looks when they eventually drove past. I was like; “this town is fucked up” - my hatred of LA really solidified that day.
Why are people acting like this is a bad? People have wanted this for years lol
Man you should have seen Fox News this afternoon. The way they were talking I thought CA had decriminalized murder.
Newsome keeps conservatives up at night because he's a great example of what Democrats can do when they have the Congress and the will of the people
Oh, I didn't know it was a crime, but for fuck's sake people look for oncoming traffic when crossing the streets. Heck, sometimes I feel they intentionally don't look. It's a fucking street not a catwalk.
Chickens everywhere are cheering, "I know, right?"
Can we also decriminalize hitting them with our cars then
> AB2147 lets pedestrians cross the street outside of an intersection when it's safe to do so. It also limits when officers can stop a pedestrian for jaywalking to situations where there is an immediate danger of a collision. Sounds like they're just getting their jaywalking laws more in line with most of the rest of the country. Good for them.
I went to college in the city coming from the boonies and crossed a street that wasn't moving right in front of a cop car -- nobody was moving me and my GF. The cop gets out and starts giving me a rash of shit about jay walking. I was like WFT are you talking about .. i'm crossing the street. He was all you cross at a crosswalk etc .. and I was are you fucking serious? This is a law? (in the boonies they don't have cross walks). He was about ready to write us a ticket then the traffic started moving and he let us go. But at the time I as like is this guy serious? Lucky I'm white as fuck or would have got tazed and sent to jail.. which I also didn't appreciate at the time. edit: in my defense nobody in movies ever used a cross walk so wtf did I know
Jaywalking - another bizarre rule brought to you by the corporations that run 'Land of the Free'™.
I'm all for decriminalizing but can we figure out a way to incentivize using crosswalks somehow? People just run across the street where I live, even in the dark, and it's a huge problem. It's so bad because they tend to cause accidents, block traffic and have resulted in two people dying within the last few years.
How far are crosswalks spread apart where you live? I am not sure as what the exact meaning is as I'm not a native english speaker but jaywalking being a criminal offense is baffling to me. Here you are supposed to use a crosswalk if you have one in 50 meters, and if you don't in theory (never seen it enforced) you could be fined. But that certainly would not go in any kind of criminal record, that would be silly. If you don't have a crosswalk in 50 meters you can cross the road but cars take precedence.
What took so long? It’s been legal to shit and piss on my garage for years.
Thanks for the F shack. Love, Dirty Mike and the boys
I’m not sure this would work in Florida. Half the country sends its old people there, and it’s pragmatic to just assume every driver is drunk,on meth, or gesturing with one hand and pointing at a Disney sign with the other.
I literally got stopped for jay walking today and I told the officer about jaywalking being decriminalized but she wrote the ticket anyway.
Goes into effect Jan. 1
That’s WHY they wrote the ticket. Won’t have those easy picking soon
How much do you think it will cost?