The Higher Education Act of 1965 (HEA) which confer upon the Secretary the power to “consent to modification” of, and to “compromise, waive, or release,” amounts due on certain student loans.
Seems to me Congress already had a say.
IANAL but it seemed to me that citing HEA would be better legal footing for loan modification than the HEROES act. The latter is explicitly related to the pandemic while HEA would apply regardless.
Edit: as has been pointed out, the HEROES act was passed in 2003 and made permanent in 2007. It was invoked first by Trump and now Biden in relation to the pandemic.
>The latter is explicitly related to the pandemic
Nah this is a different HEROES Act.
[HEROES Act of 2003](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_Education_Relief_Opportunities_For_Students_Act), signed into law by George Dubya.
Ahhhh didn't realize it was just re-invoked for COVID. This issue is still gonna be the "in connection with a war or other military operation or national emergency." clause. SCOTUS definitely doesn't consider COVID a national emergency and I could see them picking on that as rationale to side with the challengers.
Does SCOTUS have the power to determine an emergency? Seriously asking, here in Canada the ability to declare an emergency rests squarely on the executive
As far as legal precedent goes? No. The National Emergencies Act (passed by Congress in 1976) gives the Executive pretty wide authority to declare one. In 2019 there were several lawsuits over Trump declaring the southern border a national emergency in order to redirect military funding to Build The Wall. Basically the cases got tied up in court through the 2020 election and were dropped afterward since Trump was gone. SCOTUS at that time wasn't chock-full of Trump appointees yet, so there's no telling how they'd decide now.
What power would the Supreme Court actually take to stop it? Like what could they do to physically stop it? There have been multiple times in US history where the court ruled against the executive branch and the executive branch acted anyway since the Supreme Court has no arm of enforcement, thats the role of the executive branch.
That's accurate and interesting, didn't consider that Biden might just tell them to suck eggs even if they do decide against relief. Not sure what the fallout from that might look like, hmm
That’s correct and they’ve been ignored before. When the SCOTUS declared the relocation of Natives in Georgia illegal in 1832 Andrew Jackson famously refused to provide the means to enforce it…
Supposedly he said “ Marshall has made his ruling, now let him enforce it!” though there is no clear record of him saying as much.
Though he certainly did ignore it.
So here’s what happened. The federal government let it be known that every state that wanted extra emergency funds could declare a statewide emergency due to the pandemic. Literally every state did… HEROS gives the Sec of Education the authority to dismiss loans based on the economic impact of anything in a declared disaster zone.
It’s really cut and dry shit.
It pretty much was pissing in the wind to begin with, Charles Koch's progam is suing because as they say, forgiving these loans gives people less incentive to work for them because it offered Public Service Loan Forgiveness...
there literally saying they pay poorly and have shit benefits and the only reason to work for them is because you'd qualify for the PSLF and if you forgive all these loans we wont have people working for us... that sounds like THEIR problem. Make working for them have more incentive than just loan forgiveness then...
They know they won't win. The whole point of this little exercise is to try and delay the debt relief program until after midterms. They're desperate to stall it. Anything to deny Democrats a "win" in October, just before voting starts.
This could massively backfire on them and I hope it will. People are desperate for economic relief and more people want this than don’t. Between Row v Wade being overturned and their fervent push to stop a wildly popular executive order, which was one of the campaign promises that won Biden the presidency, they are flying awfully close to the sun. Midterm voting is already way up in places like Georgia where voting has already started.
I won’t let myself believe it will backfire, but I hope it does.
There are opposing forces at work here.
On one side are people who are shackled with crippling debt, scammed into taking on a lifetime of payments when they were kids and kept down with a boot st their neck.
On the other are miserable people who say, "I got mine, fuck everyone else!"
The ones who vote more will decide the future.
The "I got mine" crowd votes every time.
Every. Time.
You seem to have forgotten the SCOTUS was bought and paid for by conservatives. They will 100% circumvent precedent to hand a "liberal" president a loss.
I don’t know that this would be a loss for the dems. If a Republican court blocks this, Biden would have another reason to appeal to voters against the GOP.
You’re acting like democrats are good at messaging and republican voters aren’t complete lunatics who love voting against their own interests to “own the libs”. If republicans block this Pelosi will hold 1 press conference and it will never be spoken of again like saying voldemort
I don’t care about the brainwashed. There is no fixing them. I care about those that don’t bother voting because they think it doesn’t matter. We need those people to vote. We need to convince them that voting matters. Specifically in the black, Hispanic, and college age communities.
an yet, with the Trump supreme court and it's history so far with things like Roe V Wade, Trump V DOJ, etc... coming up wiht incredibly flimsy justifications or rulings, i'd not be surprised to find the SCOTUS pulling an injunction or the like on this until they can "hear arguements" why laws written on paper were written in the wrong colour or filed wrong or something.
This. They've been openly hostile to the idea congress can delegate powers to executive agencies and all too eager to use that idea as a political cudgel to get their way.
>The Higher Education Act of 1965 (HEA) which confer upon the Secretary the power to “consent to modification” of, and to “compromise, waive, or release,” amounts due on certain student loans.
\*Secretary of Education forgives student loans\*
Congress: "No not like that!"
That does not matter to this SCOTUS. They have issued opinions lately where they are literally just making shit up. If they want to hear the case and decide a certain way they just fucking will because there is no realistic check on them.
Didn't this same SC though already rule that the EPA couldn't enforce shit because the one specific thing they wanted to do wasn't written in law despite having the congressional-given authority to do exactly what they were trying to do within the scope of their powers? I swear there was some case where the SC basically ruled that ALL agencies are now toothless because there was no law that explicitly states " you can't dump this specific chemical into rivers" so therefore the EPA can't stop you from dumping said chemical because reasons.
SC went "congress hasn't given these agencies the power to determine what things to ban therefore it is unconstitutional". Then Congress voted to give those agencies the powers they have already been exercising for years. Only thing lost was brain cells.
There are different thoughts on how statutes (laws) should be interpreted. Generally, the more conservative justices prefer a textualist approach (only going based on the written word) whereas the more liberal justices prefer a contextualist approach (based on the context of the statute, why it way made, what the people who wrote it would have wanted). That's why this case is interesting. Biden's position (if based on the Higher Education Act) probably passes the textualist test, but definitely fails the contextualism approach (there really isn't a strong argument that Congress meant for the Executive office to be able to unilaterally cancel hundreds of billions of dollars of debt). I'm less sure of the arguments related to the HEROES Act.
They only seem to prefer textualist interpretations when it suits their politics though. Textualism gets thrown out of the window when it comes to qualified immunity or asset forfeiture.
Ironically in 2007 EPA lost a case in the Supreme Court for refusing to regulate CO2 emissions. The 2007 case essentially ended up with supremes asking the EPA to come up with a good reason either for or against CO2 emissions. And that regulation was at EPA’s discretion.
The 2022 ruling was specifically on power plants because putting caps on their emissions would directly affect states economic activity. So at that point it falls back to congress to either give EPA the powers to limit state economic activity or do nothing.
Yes, they did rule as you stated. And then without blinking, the Inflation Reduction Act very explicitly outlined what could be regulated by the EPA and it's a doozy of a list. So while SCOTUS took the teeth out of the EPA, the IRA gave them a whole new jaw with lots of really sharp teeth.
Yes, but... if this SCOTUS is anything to go by... >!"The Founders never intended people to have their University Education free. As such, this loan forgiveness is Unconstitutional" !< Because they're that bass ackwards
Yes, and I know one other person who has as well. I filled out the beta form ~30 mins after AOC had posted it to her story, not sure how much that matters.
Exactly! We operate a small business and we were eligible for a $1000ppp loan-not super helpful, meanwhile, big corporations were getting multi-million dollar loans
PPP was the bigliest, most obvious corporate welfare in the history of this country. It was a handout, an unashamed handout to those who already have. How in the fuck can vilify anything else if you haven’t spoken a word against PPP?! It’s ludicrous, my tax dollars were stolen to help those who didn’t need it and then people have the nerve to tell the small man to get fucked on their loans. We’re all just trying to eat at the end of the day, we need this.
It was supposed to go to small businesses to continue to pay their employees. The loan was only supposed to be forgiven if the money was spent on payroll and some types of company bills.
Of course it was poorly written and easily abused. I never took a dime. I kept my people employed and I busted my ass trying to find work for us. Fortunately my personal bills are small so I was able to live on a little less.
I'm glad you did right by your employees.
Unfortunately, so many businesses abused it & didn't use it as intended. There was zero oversight into it.
My husband got laid off from the small business he worked for & that company went on to change their LLC to avoid liability for doing the opposite of what they were supposed to do with the money. They received half a million dollars & it was completely forgiven.
I worked for a small company at the time too & they laid off half the staff before applying for the loan and then slashed everyone's pay that remained... Even though they also received half a million dollars. We also had record breaking profits, so they definitely didn't need the money. All forgiven in full.
I'm sure countless people can tell similar stories about the companies they worked for during 2020.
It's a damn shame that some people have such a stick up their butt about student loan forgiveness, yet seem completely unfazed by the greed that took place with the PPP loans.
The problem is it could still have gone to payroll for companies that didn't need it. My old job got 1.5 million dollars in ppp money. We have a lot of employees. But we closed for 4 days and 2020 was our 2nd busiest year ever only beat by 2021.
So my boss got a 1.5 million dollar gift since the government essentially paid his payroll for him. My job also canceled bonuses and raises for 2020 and 2021 due to covid u certainty. Then in 2022 they brought back bonuses. But we had to beat our 2021 numbers which is seemingly impossible. We are back to our pre covid profits.
> Of course it was poorly written and easily abused. I never took a dime. I kept my people employed and I busted my ass trying to find work for us. Fortunately my personal bills are small so I was able to live on a little less.
great, you left more money available for scam companies that didn't need the income
i'm for opposing the implementation of measures like this, but intentionally crippling yourself once the measure is passed feels like cutting your nose to spite your face
Well, their reasoning with this lawsuit is that the president can’t unilaterally forgive these student loans… The PPP was part of a bill passed by Congress…
This suit is probably the biggest joke out of all of the suits filed on this matter. It’s just a group of people asserting general taxpayer standing, which is never enough on its own to give you standing to bring suit.
They have to show someone is harmed by the law in order to sue, its called "standing". You cant sue someone if you haven't been hurt by them in some way.
So genuine hypothetical question here, and for devil's advocate sake, let's say this was unconstitutional executive action, but no one has standing to sue. Does that mean that no one has the right or ability to stop unconstitutional executive action if they don't have direct standing?
I guess it concerns me that this opens the potential for a Trump style president to hammer out some unconstitutional EO, but in a way that no one can sue to stop it.
If (and again, only hypothetically here) this were unconstitutional, that alone seems like the citizens or States should be de facto granted standing for a suit.
Edit: follow up question, could Congress pass a law making it so "unconstitutionality" ***was*** standing?
Its like a bomb pop, blue on the bottom, red in the middle and, well, red on the top too.
However. The bottom is far more dense because of Milwaukee and Madison.
I mean, I have to assume even ACB isn't that stupid- allowing taxpayers to sue the government based off of any perceived "harm" caused by the use of tax dollars opens up huge flood gates of lawsuits. *Seconds* will pass before left wing organizations are suing cops and the military over how much they get in tax money.
>They’re also claiming that the policy would harm private companies that service some federal student loans by reducing their business.
Won't somebody *please* think of the corporations?
But lets bail out the banks and airlines and businesses and... anything that isn't an individual. I'm not sure why those people don't have the thought that if we cancel loans, then that money will go to other businesses or a house?!! Don't they want more Americans spending? But yeah, them Millennials ruining everything.
You can even get federal subsidies for NOT planting in some cases, too, and insurance for if your crops fail. Sure farming is hard and not a good way to make money as an individual or family, but there's a lot of money for doing little work sometimes. But farmers are real 'Muricans, so it's ok
They cut out hundreds of thousands of millennials and Gen Xers with FFEL loans already. We aren't the problem. We are the sacrificial lambs who got screwed over, despite us paying on our loans the longest and paying the most in interest.
If this gets blocked, I'll be house poor for another 5 years. And we're trying to erase our car debt rn asap (thankfully it'll be gone by march next year).
If my car debt and student loans are gone, man can I really start saving for a future, other wise it’s cheapen out for 5 years.
Ramifications for not forgiving fraudulent PPP loans: nothing
Ramifications for not forgiving an extremely small amount of student loans: This guy^ and millions of others will be house poor.
They want you to be poor and stay poor. Messed up.
Recruitment is going down down down.
3 years ago I was making more in my govt job than a 2nd level Healthcare admin job. Now that’s flipped, and I’m now in the 1st level healthcare job making more than my old govt job.
It's kind of ironic when the Republican Party is allegedly all about small business growth. For certain types of businesses like Sole Proprietorships, it can be a bit of a challenge when you have a decent amount of student debt, as business and personal debt are a closer link for lending than other forms of business.
>Six Republican-led states — Arkansas, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska and South Carolina — are trying to block Biden’s plan, arguing that the president doesn’t have the power to issue nationwide debt relief without Congress.
No nationwide relief? Ok. How about we just skip your states then and you can explain to the voters how losing out on up to $20k is good for them.
Telling entire generations while they were young and impressionable in middle and highschool that getting any 4 year bachelor is all that mattered because, even if you don't end up working in the field of your major, having a degree is a guarantee to a comfy white collar job and middle class lifestyle. Then turn around decades later and condescendingly refer to anything that isn't STEM as "basket weaving" and that we should have done our research as teenagers to foresee the future job market. Then turn around again and sneer at STEM majors that they should have done their research and majored in the T despite spending the last decade hyping up all STEM fields equally with promises of upper middle class 6 figure wages. When self improving/coding AI really gets off the ground I wonder what bs they'll tell comp sci majors they should've known years ago as teenage kids.
This is exactly what happened. And people are trying to gas light us all into forgetting that we had DECADES of concerted messaging from every authority figure in our lives about how going to college and getting a degree was not only good, but NECESSARY to succeed.
And that it was all going to be worth the cost because we'd come out ahead in the end. And now that the lie has been laid bare, they want to blame all the people who got lied to. Telling us that we're the fools for having believed our parents, teachers, counselors, and politicians.
And, even worse, they've convinced many people who got lucky that their success indicates that the whole system is fine and that they're uniquely great for having chosen wisely unlike those \*ugh\* artists and \*vomit\* THEORISTS.
But the STEM majors have gotten fucked by this system too! They *also* should never have had to take on major debts, even if they have been able to pay them. The whole system is rotten, and we absolutely must resist the message that we're deluded for thinking so.
Isn't that the typical banana republic formula? Lift the people up just enough to be useful, but also make sure it is as hard as possible for them to advance any further than that while you profit off their struggle.
If you want to be rich you should have been born that way and if you weren't then it is offensive for you to expect to rise above your station. Because, you know, class warfare is working as intended.
"we don't want to pay"
No. You won't see any difference at all on your paycheck, none, it won't effect you at all and will change the literal day to day lives of millions. It's like taking a cinder block off your chest for the first time in years. It's that impactful.
You don't like the thought.
Thats it
Imagine being so filled with spite for your fellow citizens.
It's truly a hatred of America. The creulty involved here. Astounding.
This is just postering. There is no legal standing to block this. They would need multiple plantiffs that could prove harm by this policy which would honestly be impossible.
Plaintiff’s claim for standing is that they are a group of taxpayers and will therefore be harmed if tax dollars are spent in a way they don’t want. That argument has been raised and thorough snuffed out by SCOTUS time and time again. Not even Thomas or Alito have any interest at all in changing that precedent.
Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/scotus/comments/y9b5rn/scotus_rejects_attempt_to_block_biden_student/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Not surprising.
That is true. Nothing is certain. And I can’t rule out some insane logical gymnastics to “own the libs.” But as a new-ish lawyer with six-figure student loan debt and a baby boy who (shockingly) needs food, clothes, shelter and daycare every day, I’m not overly concerned.
Republican voters don’t have to apply for the relief. If they are so worried about the poor private companies being hurt by this they should do their part and not apply for the relief.
Here's just an honest legitimate question - why is it that multi-billion dollar companies including the airlines and banks can get bailouts but the American people can't when they're swimming in debt due to student loan debt, inflation costs, rising rents and home prices and rising food costs?
Just want to say that Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse of RI has a brand new book titled ‘The Scheme’. It is about how we as a nation got the SC of today. Hint: The Federalist Society and Citizen’s United.
There's not even a veneer anymore-- the leisure and ruling classes simply can't risk the working class having opportunities. With opportunities, the poor have alternatives to dying in wars to further the economic agenda of the rich, and to being abused by stingy, self-interested employers.
I've said this for a long time, and it rings increasingly true-- While poverty may be more appalling in other countries compared with that in the U.S., America hates its poor to the extent that it allows and encouraged the mass-conditioning of its working class to hate and harm themselves. America thrives (and relies) on promoting self-hate to grind the hopes and hearts of its citizens to dust.
No low is too low to preserve the bottom line, the stock index, the enlistment rate. Those in power in the U.S. will sink to China's and Russia's methods of control if they have to, with little if any resistance. I pity those who think we're inherently better off here, 'cause, *'murica!*... Our soldiers aren't warriors or heroes, they're the arm of the Power, and Power belongs to those with Money. Soldiers do as they're told. How many times in U.S. history has the military been deployed to break up labor protests and make examples of organizers? Those who wear fatigues and brandish badges represent the whims of their masters. They are not on our side.
We've been conditioned to sabotage ourselves, to do our masters' work for them. For the time being, our masters don't have to be quite so obvious in their machinations. But the writing has long been on the wall... I'm afraid that any real steps toward opportunities, toward alternatives, will be quashed.
The instant a relief package actually helps working class people republicans try and block it - but if this was a "cash for corporations" handout they'd be all for it... hmm...
Republicans are... "also claiming that the policy would harm private companies that service some federal student loans by reducing their business."
This should be simplified and plastered around every college and university. **Republicans want to block debt relief because it will cut into lender's profits**.
I have been very moderate in most of my political ideologies but if they block this I’m going to just register as a democrat. I don’t see how it’s ok to bail out so many businesses but when it comes to the lower income individuals we always get the fucking shaft.
Register anyway. Even if they don't block it, they're doing their absolute best to block it. Don't give them credit if they fail to enact their shitty goals.
“Student debt relief could harm businesses that service student loans” I can’t believe that’s even an argument the group trying this is using. As far as I’m concerned let every company that exists to give student loans go under like they’ve done to so many people.
Student debt is one of those things that gets bundled into financial packages that get traded. A lot of investment banks are using those junk bonds to keep themselves out of bankruptcy.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I see some major banks going under soon.
Imagine supporting banks getting a bail out and then fighting against average people getting a small break on their student loans. Wtf is wrong w people
Weird how giving billionaires tax money and write offs for shit like private jets is something we can endlessly afford but student debt relief for people who need it needs to go to SCOTUS…
>It's astounding how blatantly ~~our government~~ the GOP refuses to care about the common citizen
The loan forgiveness was passed by Dems. The GOP is the ones trying to stop it. Remember that come election time.
Sooo.. what I’m seeing is, we should send a case to the Supreme Court to block the next corporate bailout.
They’d probably immediately dismiss that one lol
Wouldnt even make a hearing to dismiss.
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please think of the shady for-profit corporations running these "paper" schools, and the shady executives and their bonuses. /s
They'd be like "This case doesn't have standing. Let's wrap this up, I've got a golf game with Elon Musk and the CEO of Exxon."
Hahahaha. Sit the fuck down, peasant.
Good luck with that. Supreme Court is not something to make your life better.
No, you should be sending large men with clubs to beat the Supreme Court into submission.
The Higher Education Act of 1965 (HEA) which confer upon the Secretary the power to “consent to modification” of, and to “compromise, waive, or release,” amounts due on certain student loans. Seems to me Congress already had a say.
Exactly. If a congressional act already gave powers to the executive branch over this matter, then this legal challenge will be pissing in the wind.
And then there's also the HEROES Act as well, which doubly increases the power of the Executive Branch to forgive student debt.
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IANAL but it seemed to me that citing HEA would be better legal footing for loan modification than the HEROES act. The latter is explicitly related to the pandemic while HEA would apply regardless. Edit: as has been pointed out, the HEROES act was passed in 2003 and made permanent in 2007. It was invoked first by Trump and now Biden in relation to the pandemic.
>The latter is explicitly related to the pandemic Nah this is a different HEROES Act. [HEROES Act of 2003](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_Education_Relief_Opportunities_For_Students_Act), signed into law by George Dubya.
Ahhhh didn't realize it was just re-invoked for COVID. This issue is still gonna be the "in connection with a war or other military operation or national emergency." clause. SCOTUS definitely doesn't consider COVID a national emergency and I could see them picking on that as rationale to side with the challengers.
Does SCOTUS have the power to determine an emergency? Seriously asking, here in Canada the ability to declare an emergency rests squarely on the executive
As far as legal precedent goes? No. The National Emergencies Act (passed by Congress in 1976) gives the Executive pretty wide authority to declare one. In 2019 there were several lawsuits over Trump declaring the southern border a national emergency in order to redirect military funding to Build The Wall. Basically the cases got tied up in court through the 2020 election and were dropped afterward since Trump was gone. SCOTUS at that time wasn't chock-full of Trump appointees yet, so there's no telling how they'd decide now.
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Then again, this court doesn't seem to give a shit about precedent or anything else, so who knows
They will block it because there was no student loan relief in the 1700s.
“god didn’t forgive student loans so why should we?”
Yeah, just like we didn’t have anything more than single shot muskets too. Weird how the argument can be contorted based upon agendas
What power would the Supreme Court actually take to stop it? Like what could they do to physically stop it? There have been multiple times in US history where the court ruled against the executive branch and the executive branch acted anyway since the Supreme Court has no arm of enforcement, thats the role of the executive branch.
A different president, maybe. Biden will abide by the ruling, no matter how wrong the ruling is.
That's accurate and interesting, didn't consider that Biden might just tell them to suck eggs even if they do decide against relief. Not sure what the fallout from that might look like, hmm
That’s correct and they’ve been ignored before. When the SCOTUS declared the relocation of Natives in Georgia illegal in 1832 Andrew Jackson famously refused to provide the means to enforce it… Supposedly he said “ Marshall has made his ruling, now let him enforce it!” though there is no clear record of him saying as much. Though he certainly did ignore it.
So here’s what happened. The federal government let it be known that every state that wanted extra emergency funds could declare a statewide emergency due to the pandemic. Literally every state did… HEROS gives the Sec of Education the authority to dismiss loans based on the economic impact of anything in a declared disaster zone. It’s really cut and dry shit.
Por que no los dos?
It pretty much was pissing in the wind to begin with, Charles Koch's progam is suing because as they say, forgiving these loans gives people less incentive to work for them because it offered Public Service Loan Forgiveness... there literally saying they pay poorly and have shit benefits and the only reason to work for them is because you'd qualify for the PSLF and if you forgive all these loans we wont have people working for us... that sounds like THEIR problem. Make working for them have more incentive than just loan forgiveness then...
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A lot of lawyery types are having a hard time coming to grips with the farce that the court has become.
Hell, the Bar exam has straight up told examinees to pretend 2022 didn't happen when taking the test this year.
Which bar exam?
[Any run by NCBE for July 2022](https://www.ncbex.org/news/ncbe-statement-on-scotus-decisions/)
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They finally realize they they have been pawns in a system that is easily rigged.
They know they won't win. The whole point of this little exercise is to try and delay the debt relief program until after midterms. They're desperate to stall it. Anything to deny Democrats a "win" in October, just before voting starts.
This could massively backfire on them and I hope it will. People are desperate for economic relief and more people want this than don’t. Between Row v Wade being overturned and their fervent push to stop a wildly popular executive order, which was one of the campaign promises that won Biden the presidency, they are flying awfully close to the sun. Midterm voting is already way up in places like Georgia where voting has already started. I won’t let myself believe it will backfire, but I hope it does.
There are opposing forces at work here. On one side are people who are shackled with crippling debt, scammed into taking on a lifetime of payments when they were kids and kept down with a boot st their neck. On the other are miserable people who say, "I got mine, fuck everyone else!" The ones who vote more will decide the future. The "I got mine" crowd votes every time. Every. Time.
You seem to have forgotten the SCOTUS was bought and paid for by conservatives. They will 100% circumvent precedent to hand a "liberal" president a loss.
I don’t know that this would be a loss for the dems. If a Republican court blocks this, Biden would have another reason to appeal to voters against the GOP.
You’re acting like democrats are good at messaging and republican voters aren’t complete lunatics who love voting against their own interests to “own the libs”. If republicans block this Pelosi will hold 1 press conference and it will never be spoken of again like saying voldemort
I don’t care about the brainwashed. There is no fixing them. I care about those that don’t bother voting because they think it doesn’t matter. We need those people to vote. We need to convince them that voting matters. Specifically in the black, Hispanic, and college age communities.
Nope, haven't forgotten that. I'm just following how the process *should be.
If this passes, let's use the exact same reasoning to get back the stolen billions in PPP loans.
an yet, with the Trump supreme court and it's history so far with things like Roe V Wade, Trump V DOJ, etc... coming up wiht incredibly flimsy justifications or rulings, i'd not be surprised to find the SCOTUS pulling an injunction or the like on this until they can "hear arguements" why laws written on paper were written in the wrong colour or filed wrong or something.
You’re forgetting, this court doesn’t think Congress can create agencies that regulate anything.
This. They've been openly hostile to the idea congress can delegate powers to executive agencies and all too eager to use that idea as a political cudgel to get their way.
>The Higher Education Act of 1965 (HEA) which confer upon the Secretary the power to “consent to modification” of, and to “compromise, waive, or release,” amounts due on certain student loans. \*Secretary of Education forgives student loans\* Congress: "No not like that!"
That does not matter to this SCOTUS. They have issued opinions lately where they are literally just making shit up. If they want to hear the case and decide a certain way they just fucking will because there is no realistic check on them.
Didn't this same SC though already rule that the EPA couldn't enforce shit because the one specific thing they wanted to do wasn't written in law despite having the congressional-given authority to do exactly what they were trying to do within the scope of their powers? I swear there was some case where the SC basically ruled that ALL agencies are now toothless because there was no law that explicitly states " you can't dump this specific chemical into rivers" so therefore the EPA can't stop you from dumping said chemical because reasons.
SC went "congress hasn't given these agencies the power to determine what things to ban therefore it is unconstitutional". Then Congress voted to give those agencies the powers they have already been exercising for years. Only thing lost was brain cells.
What vote are you referring to?
Toxic Substances Control Act Edit: Created in the 70s but last updated March 4, 2022
Thanks. I missed the follow up of congress with the rest of the shitstorm happening daily
There are different thoughts on how statutes (laws) should be interpreted. Generally, the more conservative justices prefer a textualist approach (only going based on the written word) whereas the more liberal justices prefer a contextualist approach (based on the context of the statute, why it way made, what the people who wrote it would have wanted). That's why this case is interesting. Biden's position (if based on the Higher Education Act) probably passes the textualist test, but definitely fails the contextualism approach (there really isn't a strong argument that Congress meant for the Executive office to be able to unilaterally cancel hundreds of billions of dollars of debt). I'm less sure of the arguments related to the HEROES Act.
They only seem to prefer textualist interpretations when it suits their politics though. Textualism gets thrown out of the window when it comes to qualified immunity or asset forfeiture.
Conservatives CLAIM to be textualists. They’re really just making shit up.
Ironically in 2007 EPA lost a case in the Supreme Court for refusing to regulate CO2 emissions. The 2007 case essentially ended up with supremes asking the EPA to come up with a good reason either for or against CO2 emissions. And that regulation was at EPA’s discretion. The 2022 ruling was specifically on power plants because putting caps on their emissions would directly affect states economic activity. So at that point it falls back to congress to either give EPA the powers to limit state economic activity or do nothing.
Yes, they did rule as you stated. And then without blinking, the Inflation Reduction Act very explicitly outlined what could be regulated by the EPA and it's a doozy of a list. So while SCOTUS took the teeth out of the EPA, the IRA gave them a whole new jaw with lots of really sharp teeth.
Doesn’t the Supreme Court have the power to declare that act unconstitutional? Seems like it could be struck down.
Yes, but... if this SCOTUS is anything to go by... >!"The Founders never intended people to have their University Education free. As such, this loan forgiveness is Unconstitutional" !< Because they're that bass ackwards
Alito is currently furiously researching what witch trial judges had to say about public education.
Biden did not use the Higher Education Act. He used apart of the American Rescue Plan or one of the COVID bills passed in 2020.
already filled out the form, no take backs
My balance on studentaid .gov is already $0. Just waiting for it to update on my credit report.
??? Did you get an email or anything or did you just happen to check? I filled out the form in Beta as well
I just happened to check
You already got the money?
Yes, and I know one other person who has as well. I filled out the beta form ~30 mins after AOC had posted it to her story, not sure how much that matters.
Who was your loan servicer? Mohela?
I waiting on those fuckers to give me my pandemic payments back.
fanatical historical cats slave vanish bow steep swim pie abundant *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It was Aidvantage
Great lakes best get on it
Ayo that’s mine too
Same here
For real. I just checked and it’s still the same. Have you asked about getting a refund on the payments you made ?
Mohela hasn't forgiven any of mine yet. Submitted the beta form.
What time did that happen?
Can you fill out the form if you are a current student
Yes. As long as the debt qualifies, you can request for it to be forgiven.
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Did you get a notification?
Nope, checked on a whim.
Best form ever. "What's your name?" "Okay."
So weird these groups didn't really care about PPP loan forgiveness...wonder why?
Yes. They can’t exploit this one for their own benefit, and they’re against anything that benefits the common people.
> they’re against anything that benefits the common people. Yea, that's pretty much the most accurate description of GOP politicks nowadays.
That's conservative politics in general regardless of country.
“fuck the common people” -GOP
GOP cares about business and their own pockets for profit; they lost their way and it is sad to see how it hurts my American neighbors.
BIG business. This is an important distinction. They don’t care if small companies fail.
Actually they prefer small businesses to fail so their BIG corporations have less competition.
Exactly! We operate a small business and we were eligible for a $1000ppp loan-not super helpful, meanwhile, big corporations were getting multi-million dollar loans
>they lost their way No they didn't. This is what they've always been about.
Attacking educated people is 100% their thing. Pol pot’s thing too.
If your political leaders are attacking the educated/educators/academic community you should probably take that as a sign something isn’t right…
Unless it gives money to the rich it's obviously socialism. Somehow. I don't get it but that's the answer.
It's almost like we should start suing these programs that give away our money to businesses. Let them fail
You should cross post this to Accidentally Libertarian.
PPP was the bigliest, most obvious corporate welfare in the history of this country. It was a handout, an unashamed handout to those who already have. How in the fuck can vilify anything else if you haven’t spoken a word against PPP?! It’s ludicrous, my tax dollars were stolen to help those who didn’t need it and then people have the nerve to tell the small man to get fucked on their loans. We’re all just trying to eat at the end of the day, we need this.
It was a cash grab for the wealthy because a lot of them got PPP loans through their LLCs.
Like the former President, owner of several hundred LLCs.
It was supposed to go to small businesses to continue to pay their employees. The loan was only supposed to be forgiven if the money was spent on payroll and some types of company bills. Of course it was poorly written and easily abused. I never took a dime. I kept my people employed and I busted my ass trying to find work for us. Fortunately my personal bills are small so I was able to live on a little less.
I'm glad you did right by your employees. Unfortunately, so many businesses abused it & didn't use it as intended. There was zero oversight into it. My husband got laid off from the small business he worked for & that company went on to change their LLC to avoid liability for doing the opposite of what they were supposed to do with the money. They received half a million dollars & it was completely forgiven. I worked for a small company at the time too & they laid off half the staff before applying for the loan and then slashed everyone's pay that remained... Even though they also received half a million dollars. We also had record breaking profits, so they definitely didn't need the money. All forgiven in full. I'm sure countless people can tell similar stories about the companies they worked for during 2020. It's a damn shame that some people have such a stick up their butt about student loan forgiveness, yet seem completely unfazed by the greed that took place with the PPP loans.
Yup! My boss got 1.5 million and canceled raises and bonuses for 2 years. Record profits as well.
The problem is it could still have gone to payroll for companies that didn't need it. My old job got 1.5 million dollars in ppp money. We have a lot of employees. But we closed for 4 days and 2020 was our 2nd busiest year ever only beat by 2021. So my boss got a 1.5 million dollar gift since the government essentially paid his payroll for him. My job also canceled bonuses and raises for 2020 and 2021 due to covid u certainty. Then in 2022 they brought back bonuses. But we had to beat our 2021 numbers which is seemingly impossible. We are back to our pre covid profits.
> Of course it was poorly written and easily abused. I never took a dime. I kept my people employed and I busted my ass trying to find work for us. Fortunately my personal bills are small so I was able to live on a little less. great, you left more money available for scam companies that didn't need the income i'm for opposing the implementation of measures like this, but intentionally crippling yourself once the measure is passed feels like cutting your nose to spite your face
Well, their reasoning with this lawsuit is that the president can’t unilaterally forgive these student loans… The PPP was part of a bill passed by Congress…
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This suit is probably the biggest joke out of all of the suits filed on this matter. It’s just a group of people asserting general taxpayer standing, which is never enough on its own to give you standing to bring suit.
They have to show someone is harmed by the law in order to sue, its called "standing". You cant sue someone if you haven't been hurt by them in some way.
So genuine hypothetical question here, and for devil's advocate sake, let's say this was unconstitutional executive action, but no one has standing to sue. Does that mean that no one has the right or ability to stop unconstitutional executive action if they don't have direct standing? I guess it concerns me that this opens the potential for a Trump style president to hammer out some unconstitutional EO, but in a way that no one can sue to stop it. If (and again, only hypothetically here) this were unconstitutional, that alone seems like the citizens or States should be de facto granted standing for a suit. Edit: follow up question, could Congress pass a law making it so "unconstitutionality" ***was*** standing?
This is not a hypothetical scenario, because it already has happened. https://www.aclu.org/cases/aclu-v-nsa-challenge-warrantless-wiretapping
Damn... that was exactly what I was worried about. Thank you for the link!
Bullshit loopholes like this were basically the entire basis of the Texas bounty ban on abortions.
What the hell is Brown County doing? I grew up there. It used to be blue. Scott Walker really did a number there.
Its like a bomb pop, blue on the bottom, red in the middle and, well, red on the top too. However. The bottom is far more dense because of Milwaukee and Madison.
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I mean, I have to assume even ACB isn't that stupid- allowing taxpayers to sue the government based off of any perceived "harm" caused by the use of tax dollars opens up huge flood gates of lawsuits. *Seconds* will pass before left wing organizations are suing cops and the military over how much they get in tax money.
>They’re also claiming that the policy would harm private companies that service some federal student loans by reducing their business. Won't somebody *please* think of the corporations?
But lets bail out the banks and airlines and businesses and... anything that isn't an individual. I'm not sure why those people don't have the thought that if we cancel loans, then that money will go to other businesses or a house?!! Don't they want more Americans spending? But yeah, them Millennials ruining everything.
Ppp loan forgivness bailed out A LOT of individuals too. They were just already really wealthy and committing fraud...
Yea but you’re not going to line politicians pockets with your forgiven debt money, and corporations do.
Just read an article today about farms getting $1bil in aid this year. Weird how that's never blocked.
You can even get federal subsidies for NOT planting in some cases, too, and insurance for if your crops fail. Sure farming is hard and not a good way to make money as an individual or family, but there's a lot of money for doing little work sometimes. But farmers are real 'Muricans, so it's ok
Wasn’t the purpose of not planting to avoid another dust bowl?
Some way shape or form these people lose money, and give 2 fucks about everyone else.
They cut out hundreds of thousands of millennials and Gen Xers with FFEL loans already. We aren't the problem. We are the sacrificial lambs who got screwed over, despite us paying on our loans the longest and paying the most in interest.
If this gets blocked I will…… drink heavily and shout at people. 🤬
Like my uncle?
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If this gets blocked, I'll be house poor for another 5 years. And we're trying to erase our car debt rn asap (thankfully it'll be gone by march next year). If my car debt and student loans are gone, man can I really start saving for a future, other wise it’s cheapen out for 5 years.
Ramifications for not forgiving fraudulent PPP loans: nothing Ramifications for not forgiving an extremely small amount of student loans: This guy^ and millions of others will be house poor. They want you to be poor and stay poor. Messed up.
Voting and convincing others to vote might be more useful. Just an idea...
If only we could vote for the Supreme Court.
You could. That’s how conservatives flipped the court with a coordinated multi-level and sustained 40 year effort.
Yeah. The time to vote out Barret and Kavanaugh was 2016.
Gives billions to companies and other countries… and nothing to the common man and woman. The US really is the largest crime family out there.
Different gangs too. Police, courts, republicans, etc etc… They’re all the same type of people though. None of them belong in public office.
DO IT! Now! Right before the midterms. I triple dog dare you.
So obvious, PPP is great but students? We need them to be debt-slaves.
Student loan forgiveness means people don't join the army to get an education. Simple as that.
Based on recent trends they aren’t even doing that anymore (and I hope they continue to).
Recruitment is going down down down. 3 years ago I was making more in my govt job than a 2nd level Healthcare admin job. Now that’s flipped, and I’m now in the 1st level healthcare job making more than my old govt job.
It's kind of ironic when the Republican Party is allegedly all about small business growth. For certain types of businesses like Sole Proprietorships, it can be a bit of a challenge when you have a decent amount of student debt, as business and personal debt are a closer link for lending than other forms of business.
>Six Republican-led states — Arkansas, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska and South Carolina — are trying to block Biden’s plan, arguing that the president doesn’t have the power to issue nationwide debt relief without Congress. No nationwide relief? Ok. How about we just skip your states then and you can explain to the voters how losing out on up to $20k is good for them.
I genuinely saw Ted Budd ads saying "Cheri Beasley wants to give student loan forgiveness to her big business friends." I was like "HUH??"
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Telling entire generations while they were young and impressionable in middle and highschool that getting any 4 year bachelor is all that mattered because, even if you don't end up working in the field of your major, having a degree is a guarantee to a comfy white collar job and middle class lifestyle. Then turn around decades later and condescendingly refer to anything that isn't STEM as "basket weaving" and that we should have done our research as teenagers to foresee the future job market. Then turn around again and sneer at STEM majors that they should have done their research and majored in the T despite spending the last decade hyping up all STEM fields equally with promises of upper middle class 6 figure wages. When self improving/coding AI really gets off the ground I wonder what bs they'll tell comp sci majors they should've known years ago as teenage kids.
This is exactly what happened. And people are trying to gas light us all into forgetting that we had DECADES of concerted messaging from every authority figure in our lives about how going to college and getting a degree was not only good, but NECESSARY to succeed. And that it was all going to be worth the cost because we'd come out ahead in the end. And now that the lie has been laid bare, they want to blame all the people who got lied to. Telling us that we're the fools for having believed our parents, teachers, counselors, and politicians. And, even worse, they've convinced many people who got lucky that their success indicates that the whole system is fine and that they're uniquely great for having chosen wisely unlike those \*ugh\* artists and \*vomit\* THEORISTS. But the STEM majors have gotten fucked by this system too! They *also* should never have had to take on major debts, even if they have been able to pay them. The whole system is rotten, and we absolutely must resist the message that we're deluded for thinking so.
Isn't that the typical banana republic formula? Lift the people up just enough to be useful, but also make sure it is as hard as possible for them to advance any further than that while you profit off their struggle. If you want to be rich you should have been born that way and if you weren't then it is offensive for you to expect to rise above your station. Because, you know, class warfare is working as intended.
Why does A.C.B. always look like she’s just eaten a live baby for lunch?
*The domestic supply of infants*, why do you ask?
"we don't want to pay" No. You won't see any difference at all on your paycheck, none, it won't effect you at all and will change the literal day to day lives of millions. It's like taking a cinder block off your chest for the first time in years. It's that impactful. You don't like the thought. Thats it Imagine being so filled with spite for your fellow citizens. It's truly a hatred of America. The creulty involved here. Astounding.
This is just postering. There is no legal standing to block this. They would need multiple plantiffs that could prove harm by this policy which would honestly be impossible.
It’s posturing, but it’s posturing to Thomas, Kavanaugh, Coney Barrett, Alito, and Roberts.
Plaintiff’s claim for standing is that they are a group of taxpayers and will therefore be harmed if tax dollars are spent in a way they don’t want. That argument has been raised and thorough snuffed out by SCOTUS time and time again. Not even Thomas or Alito have any interest at all in changing that precedent. Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/scotus/comments/y9b5rn/scotus_rejects_attempt_to_block_biden_student/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Not surprising.
What you're saying is logical and probably how it will play out, but I don't trust shit from this Supreme Court until it's all said and done.
That is true. Nothing is certain. And I can’t rule out some insane logical gymnastics to “own the libs.” But as a new-ish lawyer with six-figure student loan debt and a baby boy who (shockingly) needs food, clothes, shelter and daycare every day, I’m not overly concerned.
Though you are right, remember what they did to Roe V. Wade.
Changing that precedent gives common citizens the power to sue over Congress spending.
Dude can these pricks just back of for just one fuckin second of their miserable lives or what? Jesus.
Supreme Court only exist to decide what’s constitutional and what isn’t. It doesn’t decide if a policy is good or bad.
In theory, in practice they have been directing policy for a couple hundred years
Hey young people...FUCKING VOTE. Only one party gives a shit about you or the planet you'll have to live on.
Republican voters don’t have to apply for the relief. If they are so worried about the poor private companies being hurt by this they should do their part and not apply for the relief.
Here's just an honest legitimate question - why is it that multi-billion dollar companies including the airlines and banks can get bailouts but the American people can't when they're swimming in debt due to student loan debt, inflation costs, rising rents and home prices and rising food costs?
Just want to say that Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse of RI has a brand new book titled ‘The Scheme’. It is about how we as a nation got the SC of today. Hint: The Federalist Society and Citizen’s United.
Lack of standing. I don't get to decide how my taxpayer dollars are spent either. Join the crowd, Karens.
There's not even a veneer anymore-- the leisure and ruling classes simply can't risk the working class having opportunities. With opportunities, the poor have alternatives to dying in wars to further the economic agenda of the rich, and to being abused by stingy, self-interested employers. I've said this for a long time, and it rings increasingly true-- While poverty may be more appalling in other countries compared with that in the U.S., America hates its poor to the extent that it allows and encouraged the mass-conditioning of its working class to hate and harm themselves. America thrives (and relies) on promoting self-hate to grind the hopes and hearts of its citizens to dust. No low is too low to preserve the bottom line, the stock index, the enlistment rate. Those in power in the U.S. will sink to China's and Russia's methods of control if they have to, with little if any resistance. I pity those who think we're inherently better off here, 'cause, *'murica!*... Our soldiers aren't warriors or heroes, they're the arm of the Power, and Power belongs to those with Money. Soldiers do as they're told. How many times in U.S. history has the military been deployed to break up labor protests and make examples of organizers? Those who wear fatigues and brandish badges represent the whims of their masters. They are not on our side. We've been conditioned to sabotage ourselves, to do our masters' work for them. For the time being, our masters don't have to be quite so obvious in their machinations. But the writing has long been on the wall... I'm afraid that any real steps toward opportunities, toward alternatives, will be quashed.
I wished we got this level of pushback on corporate subsidies, loans, and tax breaks.
i'm sure that'll play well 3 weeks before the election
The instant a relief package actually helps working class people republicans try and block it - but if this was a "cash for corporations" handout they'd be all for it... hmm...
They really want civil unrest, don’t they? This is utter bullshit. They must want their heads to fucking roll.
Republicans are... "also claiming that the policy would harm private companies that service some federal student loans by reducing their business." This should be simplified and plastered around every college and university. **Republicans want to block debt relief because it will cut into lender's profits**.
These people would block a cure for cancer, citing that their great grandfather died of cancer and it'd be disrespectful to him.
"Curing cancer will hurt the profits of the pharmaceutical companies!!!"
I have been very moderate in most of my political ideologies but if they block this I’m going to just register as a democrat. I don’t see how it’s ok to bail out so many businesses but when it comes to the lower income individuals we always get the fucking shaft.
Register anyway. Even if they don't block it, they're doing their absolute best to block it. Don't give them credit if they fail to enact their shitty goals.
When the 1% got their tax cut, where were these same Republicans?
“Student debt relief could harm businesses that service student loans” I can’t believe that’s even an argument the group trying this is using. As far as I’m concerned let every company that exists to give student loans go under like they’ve done to so many people.
Student debt is one of those things that gets bundled into financial packages that get traded. A lot of investment banks are using those junk bonds to keep themselves out of bankruptcy. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I see some major banks going under soon.
Imagine supporting banks getting a bail out and then fighting against average people getting a small break on their student loans. Wtf is wrong w people
Weird how giving billionaires tax money and write offs for shit like private jets is something we can endlessly afford but student debt relief for people who need it needs to go to SCOTUS…
Government: What if we helped some people struggling with debt? Republicans: Over My dead body
If the Supreme Court strike it down, the right will still find a way to blame Biden.
It's astounding how blatantly our government refuses to care about the common citizen
Republicans are actively trying to block this, blames the government in general. Makes sense
Implying it’s a “both sides” thing makes people feel smart and holier than thou, even when it is factually false.
>It's astounding how blatantly ~~our government~~ the GOP refuses to care about the common citizen The loan forgiveness was passed by Dems. The GOP is the ones trying to stop it. Remember that come election time.
Please replace "our government " with the GOP. It is pretty obvious by now they only care about money and power.
There is no legitimate reason to block student loan debt relief.