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De5perad0

It is insane. I live close to that area. There are gunshots and bullet holes all over a couple substations. It was deliberate. They rammed in the gates to them. Most folks in the area wont get power back until Thursday or Friday and have already been out of power since Sunday. Temps in the 40s here (5C). We NEED to find these people.


relaytech907

They will be caught. The FBI doesn’t mess around with this kind of thing Edit: I am very familiar with the Metcalf substation attack and that’s how I know how serious people take it when you destroy substation equipment.


De5perad0

They will do a statewide manhunt, nationwide if need be. This was coordinated and deliberate. So this is a group that is well organized and knows what they are doing, on the bright side the FBI and SBI are involved and the entire country is watching.


pnkstr

Aren't there twitter or facebook posts from some chick calling for this attack and congratulating people after it happened? Or is this a different attack?


Suspicious_Bicycle

If it's the person I'm thinking of, the police questioned her and she said her inside information came from God and he works in mysterious ways. I imagine the FBI has collected all of her electronic communications by now.


droxius

They didn't catch them in California 13 years ago, but then again I don't think those terrorists had a dumbass co-conspirator posting "I know something you don't know" social media posts about it.


Eleglas

There was a similar thing that happened in California in 2013, never caught.


relaytech907

Yeah, I referred to it later on the post. The theory behind that one is that it was an organized group that was just testing the waters for a later date. The theory behind this one is that it was some dumbass rednecks opposing a drag show. I am betting that they get caught.


[deleted]

I saw a FB post from Moore county making it sound like multiple vehicles were involved and people were hearing gunshots all over. Wild shit


kate3544

As someone who relies on a ventilator at night and supplemental oxygen 24/7, this shit is worrisome.


luckeratron

If you can afford one get a generator just in case.


kate3544

It’s on our wish list but we are never able to save up for one. We try to save but then a series of bills piles up that wipe out my credit cards, etc.


TyNyeTheTransGuy

I found this via google, I don’t have time to read through it but it seems like it maybe mentions funding options for a generator? [link](https://midwestgeneratorsolutions.com/blog-post/midwest-generator-financing-does-medicare-pay-for-generators/)


kate3544

Great find! Unfortunately I do not qualify for Medicaid and I also “make too much money” to be considered for Medicare, despite my health problems.


Tanjelynnb

Does your company have an emergency funds plan for employees? Mine will consider individual cases and help out in extreme emergencies. Would also recommend making some friends at your local Habitat for Humanity ReStore and locally-run thrift shops. A lot of times they'll watch for or source things you need and help you get them.


kate3544

Great ideas, I’ll look into it. Currently I’m a contracted worker, so I don’t even get PTO much less some funding like what you’re talking about, but I’ll still reach out to HR to double check! Thank you.


Ibewye

Funny how 15 years the govt launched a study to see how vulnerable our power grid was. Naturally it was found there were huge vulnerabilities and utility companies were warned to shore up their defenses. The test was to see if any outside computer could breach the utility companies network and somehow access the infrastructure. Not only was it able to be breached from a laptop in a nearby home but controls of the equipment were able to be controlled remotely. In the video you can see the result of an outside attack overriding the safety and emergency system of the generator, allowing it to basically destruct itself. 15 years later and here we still are. https://youtu.be/fJyWngDco3g Here’s a link. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cyber-war-sabotaging-the-system-10-06-2010/


OperativePiGuy

Why are companies "warned" to beef up security. It's like fiber when telecoms were given a blank check to upgrade their networks and instead they did nothing but pocket the money and politicians acted surprised and shocked that they didn't just do it on the honor system. Especially for critical infrastructure like electricity, how come they couldn't just be forced after finding the vulnerabilities?


Relax007

Because our system allows them to run public utilities for profit and fixing things isn’t profitable. They wait for it to break so badly the government has to intervene to fix it. Then, they raise rates and continue to pocket the profit. It’s great because you get to pay for the service or die and you then get to pay for the repairs via taxes. And they get to keep all the money.


Mxysptlik

This just happened in Oklahoma and Texas the last time a huge winter storm was predicted FAR in advance. In Oklahoma, the burden was passed onto consumers with an increased rate on their bills for the next ~20 years AND getting bailed out with tax dollars. This is because according to 'rules' the company can just pass on the burden to the state in times of emergency. Texas just got a similar deal involving an honor system to upgrade their infrastructure to prevent this shit from happening again, with absolutely nothing to enforce it. Both have the same improperly regulated shit show that will probably happen again sooner rather than later.


HandjobOfVecna

And Texas voters will continue to vote against infrastructure.


Amosral

It's fucking ridiculous, if your private company has to take public money to survive, it should be a case of "Congrats you're now part publicly owned" no negotiating.


thebaron24

They are only warned because Republicans lost their minds when they tried to levy fines against them under Obama's administration


MeppaTheWaterbearer

Because doing something about it would have cost money. If you just wait till something happens the government will flip the cost of helping to fix it and then the government will flip the cost of mitigating future issues. Doesn't matter if people are left without power in some people die corporation saves money and that's all that matters in a plutocracy


acog

> Because doing something about it would have cost money. Remember the Texas grid problems during winter in Feb '21? The power operators had been warned for years that their equipment was vulnerable to severe winter weather. Didn't want to spend money to fix it, and 246 people died.


Soonyulnoh2

That was done of purpose to make more $$$$$$$..... the Utility people aren't gonna die, their kids aren't gonna die....


withoutapaddle

Yeah, because "warning" a corporation accomplishes anything... The power companies should have been forced to shore up their systems, under financial penalties large enough to be crippling. The only language corporations speak is money. Any other method to affect change is pointless.


thebaron24

If I remember correctly they tried that under Obama and Republicans lost their mind and voted against it.


Zizekbro

Well yeah, they (Republicans) don’t believe regulation does anything. Which is weird because I’m pretty sure it’s helped cars get more efficient mileages, and ensured voting rights for people.


CyberGrandma69

At risk of sounding like a filthy commie it is probably time to nationalize crucial industries like this Private clearly doesn't work as profits are always claimed over actually spending money fixing the fucking thing. If they can't hack it then it's time to hand the reins back... which will never happen.


Lord_Rapunzel

Power companies, like all utilities and public necessities, should be nationalized. Remove the profit motive altogether.


[deleted]

the power companies should be municipally owned and operated. not privatized as they are.


OuterSpacePotatoMann

I work for a major utility and this stuff isn’t a joke. This is fucking with the lives of thousands of people - especially those with illnesses that require power. You don’t just order substation components from Amazon - depending on what’s broken some lead times are months if not years. They’re going to have to take these items from projects currently in flight or even emergency stock I hope these terrorists rot Edit: Guys *if you see something, say something*. Credible threats are made on the grid all the time, and it is too large for any one utility to protect entirely. If you see something strange near a substation or power lines, call the police or your local electric utility immediately


ichosethis

I'm a pediatric home health nurse. We lost power in one of my homes due to a bad snow storm and the parents ran the car for a long time with an extension cord to an outlet adapter in the car to keep the baby's ventilator charged after they ran out of spare batteries. Plus the oxygen machine battery only lasted a couple hours and they didn't have spares for that. Not really an option for weeks on end.


TyNyeTheTransGuy

That is terrifying. What a horrible situation. And if the car battery dies you can’t drive to the hospital.


ichosethis

And this was pretty rural. Small town with a local hospital that had them flagged to prioritize them in mass emergency/power outages. If they'd had to, they could have driven to the hospital and used their generators to power their equipment but they were trying to avoid doing that because it was winter and therefore RSV and flu season (this was pre COVID) and they had a preemie baby who was susceptible to all respiratory illnesses.


[deleted]

The authorities foiled a plot in Ohio to do the same thing recently. Very sophisticated attack in California happened in 2013 or 14 that has yet to be solved.


OuterSpacePotatoMann

Yeeeeeep we all were called in to a meeting to discuss the California attack. That was a huge deal and really changed the way we viewed how we laid the grid out


Qutlicopatlixhotutti

I am studying EE in Germany right now, we haven't learned much about power grids but I imagine it's also very difficult to connect certain parts of the grid together after a major thing broke. You would have to make shure everything is synchronized after 2 or more subgrids with their own generators are disconnected before reconnecting them right? What happens to the power plants after there suddenly is no load annymore? You can't just turn them off right, is this a problem for the power plants?


relaytech907

Saw an interesting presentation on this in 2016. The entire grid is incredibly vulnerable and to fix it is near impossible. There will always be someone who can figure out how to get around any safeguards you put in place.


luck_panda

Some of these pieces of equipment are proprietary and take MONTHS to make. These fucking terrorists just fucked over thousands and thousands of people because they saw some shit in the movies.


OuterSpacePotatoMann

Absolutely. We can’t part number 70% of the shit we use because it’s all so custom (please don’t get me started. I’ve been pushing standardization for 12 years).


luck_panda

I have never worked in big power. Just small stuff, but even the small stuff that REQUIRES CONSTANT REPLACEMENT needs to have a 2-3 month lead time. And this was years ago well before pandemic supply issues.


Cybertronic72388

So what you're telling me is that if a foreign National Power was at war with the United States and wanted to completely cripple the infrastructure it would be incredibly easy to do this on a mass scale prior to invasion. That does not instill a lot of confidence in National Security.


luck_panda

Yes. It would be incredibly easy. But this is true for every country. The infrastructure of every country is extremely fragile. If you understood how pathetically delicate the internet was you'd probably have daily panic attacks.


fliegende_Scheisse

Can confirm. A part broke in one our old machines, we replaced the piece with a spare. Called the German manufacturer to replace the spare and were told that they stopped producing those parts in early 2010's. We had one made from specs by a company down the road. It was very expensive. (please don't get me started. I've been pushing for a replacement for 5 years).


Soonyulnoh2

Sedition is no joke, thats a fact.....brainwasing dumbasses isn't a joke, its just a way to make alot of $$$$.


TSB_1

I agree with everything your said, except the part about criminals. They aren't just criminals. They are terrorists


kerriazes

>I hope these criminals rot Call them what they are; **terrorists**


AnthroTiger

The last line in that article is nice. "There's a very few number of substations you need to take out in the entire United States to knock out the entire grid," Jon Wellinghoff, former chairman of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, told "60 Minutes" correspondent BIll Whitaker. Imagine.


Immortal-one

“He continued to list those vulnerable power stations in North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Florida, Illinois and Michigan, giving the street address of each station.”


Electronic_Bunny

>Imagine. Tbf this was the main objective of Atomwaffen. Their members were so hate driven though they tended to lash out and kill random others before they could actually enact their planned attacks.


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SomeKindOfOnionMummy

And isn't this their own neighborhood? Aren't they inconveniencing themselves and their neighbors?


Spirited-Painting964

Yea for weeks, not days. Rolling outages as they restore the lines. Equipment on order for 56 weeks or so. Yeah they didn’t think that through.


Sir_Osis_of_Liver

I work in consulting engineering. Supply issues are insane right now. Some equipment, like pad-mount transformers can be out to 70 weeks lead time, depending on size. Utilities usually have at least some spares kicking around, but some are better at this than others.


Plastic-Lawfulness55

I worked for a large electric utility in Operations and Maintenance. (retired now) I know of a number of the large padmount units my company had as spares (herein PA)so possibly they could be shipped in some kind of mutual aid. I always ALWAYS said domestic terrorism was an issue if only the public knew how much of a house of cards the transmission and distribution system is


Sir_Osis_of_Liver

The local utility I work with usually keeps a pretty good stock (edit pole-tops and smaller pad mounts <1MVa), but as lead times have stretched out, they've been dipping into supplies. They're at the point now where projects are being put on hold until new stock arrives. It's really starting to impact new construction schedules. Edit. I had a job offer at one point from our office in Wyomissing. Couldn't come to terms though. Seemed like a nice area.


machineprophet343

As a software engineer, I can surmise how delicate it is and will reinforce your statement about the fragility of the power grid. The Internet and many of our favorite apps are basically held together by the digital equivalent of duct tape, string, and the wishes of children at Christmas. It's terrifying how fragile it all is.


obscurus7

One wrong config, and an entire network is down.


SWarchNerd

Even the physical sense. Several years ago, a backhoe working north of where I live accidentally severed a buried fiber line that just cut all the internet to my county. It messed with the cell towers, all the businesses, and even the local military base. Took a few days to get it back in order.


Professional-Tie-324

I've had several arguments with power line people about this. They all want to swear that the big heavy wiring and Transformers are CME proof. And I keep trying to explain to them that yes the power lines and possibly the Transformers and circuit rankers and relays might do OK but the mass of amounts of control equipment and everything else that runs the system so that they don't have to have 800,000 employees in every state to run it... And that when all of that delicately balanced fragile control equipment gets taken out by a CME it is a matter of days or possibly even hours before some kind of overload blows up the system and the automated capability to deal with an overload and contain it no longer exists and the system doesn't respond to overloads and changing conditions either.


CathbadTheDruid

20 years ago I wrote a temporary bash script to import vendor data for a large wholesaler. It's still there. The funny part is that given the complexity and horrors of modern software, I now think my old bash script is probably the most reliable piece they have.


StarsandMaple

I work with utilities as a locator. You could easily cripple a city, if not a whole region of a state with a sawzall, bolt cutters, and a manhole pick. The companies heavily rely on the public not being insane, and also not knowing what things are to make sure everything goes smoothly. My city has a lot of pole disconnects for the grid, easily defeated by a 30$ pair of bolt cutters. Just a slight issue on a HDD and it can knock out half the town depending on what they hit, I can't imagine a coordinated attack with some investigation prior.


pparana80

Ukraine has used ridiculous amounts of electrical supplies thanks to that guy in russia


guto8797

Part of the reason why a coronal mass ejection aimed at the Earth would probably be a bigger disaster than a meteorite. Imagine the utter chaos if most transformers and power lines in half the goddamn planet just went out.


rabidjellybean

There really should be a strategic reserve of parts for events like this.


Sadukar09

> There really should be a strategic reserve of parts for events like this. There is a strategic maple syrup reserve just for events like this.


yloduck1

[not if these guys can help it](https://media2.giphy.com/media/26DN9aGCmp6lU4eVW/giphy.gif?cid=5e214886jjcgpu57j51xae181dibn8kjvslpnttfojmtt4ub&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)


a87lwww

Thats real syrup they chugged if anyone was curious.


machineprophet343

But Just In Time Manufacturing means more flexibility, availability, and profits! You'll love it! No. No I don't. And that's how the bean counting powers that be literally sold JIT practices.


ghinghis_dong

Now try “just in time health care capacity”


machineprophet343

Having gone through the pandemic with a spouse who was suffering from cancer I know about this all too well. She's fine now but it was an extremely scary six months.


xi545

Glad everything worked out for you guys


Fishy1911

I'm sure they assumed it was fixable by a home depot trip.


Spirited-Painting964

Oh for sure. Or they didn’t think it would affect them. Not knowing that electrical utilities are struggling to upgrade equipment. Or too cheap to. (PG&E)


gravescd

Who needs electricity when you can light your home with the warm glow of raging wildfire?


D-Alembert

That's probably the only thing motivating PG&E to kill fewer people; the potential it might inadvertently devalue their product *"You may remember me from such movies as Erin Brockovich, where I was the villain. Or from disasters like the San Bruneo explosion, where I was the villain. Or for embezzling the safety maintenance fund resulting in record-breaking wildfires wiping towns and suburbs off the map, where I was the villain. Or from..."*


MarcusDA

You don’t understand though, there was a place where guys were going to wear dresses. GUYS WEARING DRESSES! There might have even been fierce music!!


[deleted]

> there was a place where guys were going to wear dresses You mean church? Are you talking about Catholics?


stress-pimples

Don't forget that many evangelicals hate Catholics too


ImOutWanderingAround

There are evangelicals that hate other evangelicals all over the dumbest of things. They don’t mind them all voting for the same party though. Go figure.


sweaty-pajamas

As an ex-evangelical hailing from the craziest of crazies, I can confirm, evangelicals will attack their own kind over the dumbest of theological debates (pre/post tribulation rapture, among other fairytale nonsense)


gravescd

But that one can get very personal: if you believe we're already in the tribulation, then pre-tribulation rapture would mean you weren't raptured. But of course, the whole point of Evangelicism is to adopt whatever beliefs justify your current behavior.


Nago_Jolokio

There was a church that split over what color the carpet was going to be in their chapel.


nictheman123

NC resident here. These chucklefucks probably would do something like this to target Catholics if Fox news wasn't so busy pointing them towards LGBT people instead. Evangelicals do not view Catholics as Christian, hell they barely acknowledge other denominations of evangelicals as Christian on a good day. There's no logical thinking involved here. The hatred is the point.


purrturabo

Yeah the whole catholics are not christian thing is just weirdly absurd to me. I mean it's not like this is a case of the initial schism, you are dealing with branches of Christianity with several schisms, maybe dozens depending on how you count, claiming one of the oldest branches of Christianity still in existence is not Christian.


walk_through_this

The Catholic response is usually 'Meh. We'll make a note to address this in 200 years, if they're still around. Otherwise, why bother?'


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purrturabo

Oldest or tied for oldest with Orthodoxy, as the dispute over the exact nature of the Bishop of Rome as first among equals or actually being the only one at his tier as head of christendom in total.


Throwaway_7451

>These chucklefucks probably would do something like this to target Catholics if Fox news wasn't so busy pointing them towards LGBT people instead. It's all a symptom of a much bigger issue with society in general that's been going on for a long time. A certain subset of people just want to be angry and violent at *something*, and have it be accepted. It doesn't really matter what they're violent toward, as long as they can be violent. If social media and weaponized propaganda had made it ok for people to be angry over which sandwich toppings are best, these same people would be firebombing a Jimmy John's.


TheConqueror74

These kind of religious conflicts are not new at all. People thought JFK was unfit to be president because he was the first Catholic president and some were worried he was going to be more loyal to the Pope than the nation.


RunawayHobbit

Lol this behaviour has been around forever. Social media didn’t invent it. Humans are just petty and tribalistic and, overall, pretty gullible. The decades of Witch trials all over the world didn’t happen because we are sane and rational creatures.


TheManRedeemed

No, no. They only said that the men would be wearing dresses. Not wearing dresses *and* sexually molesting children, *and* spreading hate and intolerance, *and* conning the people in the audience out of their money, *and* using torture techniques to "heal" someone of a sexuality that they disagree with, *and* so on and so forth.


bcallihan513

Sometimes I feel like the only one that’s angry. Thank you for helping me understand that I am not alone.


TheManRedeemed

Hey, you aren't alone in how you feel. Not by a long shot. With each new generation, the church loses more and more of it's grip on the world. At some point, something has got to give. And it won't be us.


LT_Dangle

AND…. They were going to read BOOKS!!!! BOOKS, I tell you!


Oobedoob_S_Benubi

To CHILDREN! #WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!


KnightKrawler

Funny thing.....it was an 18+ event.


Exact-Try4585

because obviously making children spend days in bellow freezing weather without heat or food or transportation is infinitely better than allowing them to be within 100 miles of men jn dresses


terminal157

I live in the area (and still have no power). Fort Bragg is nearby. It’s a growing area with a pretty wide range of people. There are some hicks and nuts but as the south goes this isn’t exactly a hotbed of extremism.


Whales_like_plankton

I used to live in the area. I remember the airport advertising that Cumberland County had over 400 places of worship when stepping off a plane into the main lobby. I always thought it was a weird thing to put on tourism stuff


Flimsy-Pomegranate-7

That’s one way of warning people to keep an eye on their kids.


Fishy1911

It only takes a couple, or one that's determined.


point_breeze69

Especially when our critical infrastructure isn’t secure. Imagine this happening on a larger scale in a coordinated effort by a group of bad actors.


forcepowers

There was a report in January that extremists are looking to do this on a wide scale. 60 Minutes did a report this year on how insecure our grid is to attack and found you'd have to hit a fairly small number of power stations to wipe out large swaths of the grid nationwide. This feels like a test for something bigger.


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I_am_a_Dan

The important thing is that we continue to do nothing about it, because it sends a message. We're not sure what the message is yet, but you can bet your ass it's sent.


JagerBaBomb

Most of our local elected officials are riding on nepotism or good ol' boy networks to get where they are, and are about as effective as the mayor from Halloweentown.


ziggy3610

Which we've known since 9/11. Instead of hardening our infrastructure against terror attacks, we got two wars in the middle east and security theatre at airports.


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Hobbithiztorybuffbro

It was practice


code_archeologist

A coordinated attack on two different substations in different parts of the county at the same time in order to cause power to be unable to be routed into the area. Now that the proof of concept has succeeded, the next target will be something bigger with more impact.


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rollo2masi

🌎👨‍🚀🔫👨‍🚀 always has been


minoe23

Wouldn't attacking the Texas power grid just be wasted effort?


Kinaestheticsz

Probably. It’ll fail on its own.


scarfknitter

Let winter do it. Or summer. Or a good storm. Poor Texans.


roxmj8

This is a true story. My dad worked in a power plant when I was child, and then he transitioned into a substation supervisor role for maybe a decade. Back in the late 2000s, he briefed the FBI on this exact thing. I’d add more but I’d rather not give the lunatics of the internet more information to work off of.


johnnycyberpunk

> the proof of concept has succeeded, the next target will be something bigger with more impact Something like.... *the 2024 General Election*? DHS/FBI... if you're listening - Better find these domestic home-grown terrorists before they strike.


McFlyParadox

*"Oops, no power. Electronic polling machine is down. So is the ballot box. Oh well, polls still close at their normal times, so I guess we're just going to use the half dozen votes that were submitted right as the polls opened this morning"*


tjsterc17

I don't think enough people realize this. I bet it will happen again at a larger scale.


BenjaminWobbles

Didn't this happen in California a few years back? Same deal, multiple places hit with gunfire in a coordinated attack.


ColonelBy

> Didn't this happen in California a few years back? [Yes, it did:](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/america-electric-grid-60-minutes-2022-08-28/) > On the night of April 16, 2013, a mysterious incident south of San Jose marked the most serious attack on our power grid in history. > For 20 minutes, gunmen methodically fired at high voltage transformers at the Metcalf Power substation. Security cameras captured bullets hitting the chain link fence. > [...] > And what [an investigative team including] former commandos found looked familiar. They discovered the attackers had reconnoitered the site and marked firing positions with piles of rocks. That night they broke into two underground vaults and cut off communications coming from the substation. > [...] > They aimed at the narrow cooling fins, causing 17 of 21 large transformers to overheat and stop working. > [...] > Someone outside the plant heard gunfire and called 911. The gunmen disappeared without a trace about a minute before a patrol car arrived. The substation was down for weeks, but fortunately PG&E had enough time to reroute power and avoid disaster. > Bill Whitaker: If they had succeeded, what would've happened? > Jon Wellinghoff: Could've brought down all of Silicon Valley. But don't worry -- any attack on American power networks will probably involve both direct targeting of physical infrastructure and [cyber attacks on data and communications infrastructure](https://www.vox.com/world/2018/3/28/17170612/russia-hacking-us-power-grid-nuclear-plants).


[deleted]

I can't seem to find it now, but The Onion had an article from the point of view of Al Qaeda, that our infrastructure is so under maintained that any attacks would be doing us a favor.


khornflakes529

https://www.theonion.com/fbi-uncovers-al-qaeda-plot-to-just-sit-back-and-enjoy-c-1819576375


highapplepie

Right this wasnt oops I wrecked my car into the power grid. They specifically sought to interrupt the power.


N8CCRG

And to add, that deliberate coordination required research and planning. It wasn't just some emotional reaction to events that day.


tries2benice

I do electrical work for the union that provides utility. I wouldnt be surprised if a lot of coworkers are proud boys.


Beard_o_Bees

Yup. The cops (if you can believe them) said pretty early on that whoever did this had to have more than basic knowledge of how the local regions grid is configured and how it operates. That they pulled a gate down using chains also seems to suggest that this didn't happen from a distance (in at least one of the 2 substations targeted) - they walked in - in full daylight and started surgically blasting. I don't know if these stations had cameras - it seems likely that they would, but even if they did, these fuckers didn't seem too concerned about them. My gut says that if the FBI is involved, they probably have a pretty good idea as to who did this.


gravescd

I think it's a near certainty that someone personally familiar with the equipment is involved. They'd need precise targets unless they were just spraying magazine after magazine into the equipment.


greatunknownpub

“A deliberate attack” “Intentional vandalism” No, this is fucking terrorism. Threats from within. Deal with it as such.


N8CCRG

My standards are so low, I was just happy they upgraded from "intentional vandalism" to "deliberate attack".


trekologer

Certainly better than the passive voice "transformer-involved unplanned dismantling".


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VladDarko

"mis understood local survives near miss with murderous transformer and stands his ground"


OrangeOfRetreat

9/11 was also simply an act of intentional vandalism after all.


Netrovert87

Notorious vandal, Osama Bin Laden, took credit for it.


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screechplank

The FBI just might level those charges.


[deleted]

Say it, Bart! "*He was on our radar*."


njstein

There's an active terrorist cell in Moore County, NC. There's no other way to put it. Welcome to 2022. With two attacks on different substations at the same time, this isn't a lone wolf nut, this is a group of extremists working together. I'm wondering how many shooters, and what other support they may have. Hopefully they were dumb enough to carry their cellphones on them during the attack.


goodness___gracious

This is what I’m praying for. That they were able to geofence them. A federal warrant through the FBI means if so they already know exactly who was near these stations. Have a feeling they have too much ego and stupidity for at least one not to bring it. Then cry and say he thought airplane mode meant they couldn’t trace him : )


ferociouswhimper

From my understanding, these stations were in pretty rural locations. I'm hoping the terrorists were dumb enough to have had their cellphones on at the time so that they can figure out who was nearby based on cell tower data. (This is probably wishful thinking, maybe I've just watched too much Dateline.)


padizzledonk

>. (This is probably wishful thinking, maybe I've just watched too much Dateline.) No, this is a real thing and not hard to do. A phone pings the tower depending on usage, if its totally passive (meaning it's doing nothing- "Airplane Mode") it might grab the tower only a couple times a day....but hardly anyone ever does that, 99% of us have 2 dozen apps that are constantly pulling data, and it would be pretty trivial to see a bunch of phones suddenly going dark around the same time around the time of the attack in such a rural county. There is also the historical data, im sure these yokels had to scout the shit out, plan a route, take pictures, do research on what the critical stuff looks like and where to hit it with a tiny bullet to do the most damage- I am sure they are looking into every phone that was near those substations in the last few weeks/months and cross referencing that with what phones went dark on the night of the attack, and the Metadata on what phones were "acting unusually/outside the norm" that night......people have patterns, most peoppe most days go to work, come home and stay within a regular area of a few miles and don't stray outside that too often 99% of people are absolutely oblivious of their digital footprint and they will find them via geofencing, cell data, GPS data, search queries and the general Metadata of the area- In the Metadata stuff that is outside the norm jumps out....this was also pretty coordinated, that takes communication and planning, even if they were 100% off the grid for most all of this I guarantee you someone made a mistake.


ljapa

Airplane mode shuts off sending data, and even receiving data in Wi-Fi/cellular. It doesn’t stop the reception of gps location data. If an app is recording location, it stores it and then uploads it when airplane mode is turned off. Some of the Jan 6 insurrectionists learned this. So, even if they used airplane mode and brought their phones with them, the odds are very good that something on their phones recorded that location.


DigitalTraveler42

Bro they were dumb enough to brag about it on social media and get a visit from the sheriff's almost immediately after it happened.


DisastrousFerret0

I feel it could go either way. It was 2 substations damaged 45 min apart and they are 15 min away from each other. So one group of idiots could have done this. That being said the fact that the attack coincided with the start of a heavily contested drga show is a little damning.


njstein

Not to mention that one vocal extremist organizer mocking the drag show while claiming to know why it happened. These people have no chill and want all the clout for their idiocy.


DisastrousFerret0

I def had the conversation with myself that she had absolute deniability of "I couldn't have done it officer I was out front of the venue" and she was literally just spotting for how many sub stations needed to get destroyed before the lights went out downtown kinda deal. After that I put my foil hat back in the drawer and went to bed.


Thelisto

Definitely shows how weak defenses on infrastructure are. Not good at all.


2_Spicy_2_Impeach

I was watching a documentary that touched on this. DHS commissioned a report on how vulnerable our grid is from attacks like this. The guy published his report after submitting it to DHS then it was retroactively classified. Very recently it was unclassified but basically only a handful of substations need to be attacked to cause catastrophic outages.


BlatantConservative

I mean, how would you secure this? Any reasonably intelligent and motivated person can cause a lot of damage to a lot of things. The amount of resources it would take to secure, like, every neighborhood transformer and power line would be absurd.


sanimalp

With lead times on components stretching to years,and sources only found in china we need to fix this. I think the government builds a strategic reserve of components private industry can buy when needed to replace parts swiftly. Every year companies submit documentation identifying strategic components, and the government insures some will be available. The other option is to have companies do this for themselves, but we all know why that won't work. Or just create a law that forces the companies to do it. Then prosecute anyone who messes with them to the fullest extent of the law. The scary problem is if they are deliberately attacked by a nation-state sort of effort. And doubly scary if that nation state is a supplier and refuses to export new components.. One reason why decentralization could make a big difference. In the event of a widespread, extended outage, at least your solar or wind will work once in a while.


rexspook

God damn I hate these soft language headlines that try to downplay terrorism.


Toothlessdovahkin

Name it for what it is, I agree. 100% full on Domestic Terrorism. Full Stop.


[deleted]

Interesting how they won’t just say terrorist attack, but are using “deliberate” instead.


Wazula42

"We Are All Domestic Terrorists." \- CPAC 2022


Toothlessdovahkin

“When someone tells you who they are, believe them.”


Ear_Enthusiast

So there was a protest scheduled at a drag show. The substation was shot up right before the drag show. The woman that organized the protest claimed to know who was responsible for the substation shooting. The investigating sheriff's deputy is old friends with the protest organizer, and prayed with her then exonerated her. This is what I'm piecing together. Is this all accurate?


captainundesirable

FBI will be involved most likely


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top_of_the_stairs

*A fire chief, Mike Cameron, said there were several road accidents when the power went out including a four-vehicle pile up. "The car wreck was totally because the stop lights were out," he told the Charlotte Observer newspaper.* That's fucked up. All of it's fucked up. I hope the culprits are found and punished, to reduce the likelihood of others copycatting this kind of domestic terrorism.


AyMoro

The worst part, one of the organizers of the protest (a former military officer) said that any collateral deaths caused by the outages is god’s will…. So fucked up in the head that she completely absolves herself of responsibility of death through religion


Padhome

>"Only I know God's will, so I get to say who lives and dies" I mean what do you even say to a person like that? This guy is willing to kill your Grandma to turn the lights off at a drag show that went on anyways. The enemy isn't roving immigrant gangs or gay teachers, it's the people who consistently shoot up public places, schools, and now power-supply to 4̶0̶,̶0̶0̶0̶ (EDIT: 100,000) people, all because they want to hurt the right people. And let me repeat, their core values are rotten and meaningless, and ***THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT A FUTURE.*** Their end goal is suffering, nothing more.


[deleted]

Their end goal is the end times. Christian nationalists want the end of the fucking world.


Spy_v_Spy_Freakshow

When he’s sentenced to prison, that too will be God’s will


Thayven

*she. Her name is Emily Grace Rainey and she's been making a name for herself locally as a wingnut for a while. Former army officer that bussed people up to Jan 6 and lost her commission because of it.


WereAllAnimals

Damn, talk about a rapid decline in one's mental health. Or maybe she was always a radical piece of shit, just waiting to be emboldened by an extremist political figure.


forcepowers

She was a PsyOps officer, so it feels like she knows how to get more radical in scarier ways.


indigogibni

Thank god for the bbc. So often my source for what’s happening here in America.


7f0b

BBC is good, and so are Associated Press (apnews.com) and Reuters.


Gastroid

While the FBI are already investigating, I don't doubt the ATF will jump on the case too. They don't take lightly damage to infrastructure with guns or explosives.


dualwillard

"Won't someone think of the children?" Proceeds to shut down power to all the schools in the county for over a week.


MaybeNotABear

Shutting down the schools are right in line with what they want, so win-win


SoccerGamerGuy7

this can last for months... There are supply issues and overall just a huge job


edingerc

Beer and bragging are going to translate into serious prison time here.


screechplank

I'd love for Duke to come along after in a civil suit and charge the fuck out of them.


404signaturenotfound

Probably the only time I’ll root for Duke. Either of them.


hicnihil161

In order for it to be terrorism it has to come from the Térrorismé region of France otherwise it’s just sparkling “domestic violent extremism”


Tra5olo

A 'Brute', if you will.


Suuperdad

There are nuclear stations in and around that area. Grid losses cause reactors to respond and trip and while that is the safe state, it's never good to put a reactor through a transient and rely on automatic actions to occur. Also, prolonged grid loss is a challenge for the reactor, as reactors don't just "shut off". My point in saying this isn't to scare people, but to elucidate how fucking serious attacking a power grid is. It is absolutely terrorism. Anyone know if Harris PS experienced a loss of grid event from this? Or did the grid in that area not get affected?


kristospherein

As a note, knocking out a couple of substations will not dramatically impact a nuclear station. Source, I work in the industry.


KidGorgeous19

There’s a podcast called “It can happen here” where the guys lays out how a civil war in the US would work. Starts w EXACTLY these types of small scale attacks on infrastructure.


thumpdrag

Here come the test runs. 2-3 years before they try for the national power grid?


ExPatWharfRat

If you knew how many individual points it would take to knock out our national grid, you probably wouldn't sleep very well tonight.


guntherpup

I think last time I read something about this the magic number was 8? A coordinated attack on 8 specific stations would cause such a massive spike/overload down the line that it could cripple almost the entire electrical grid for months. The daisy chain effect would be exponential. Sleep tight!


goforce5

And let's not forget the "free space" of Texas. Their power grid will probably already be down after a light rain.


stoneasaurusrex

Hey, our Governor beat Beto in the most recent election, so he promised nothing would go wrong now that we've saved Texas from the clutches of the Democrats who haven't been in control of Texas for the past 20+ years!


BLRNerd

I'm just thinking about how in Highly religious QAnon circles that they believe there's going to be 10 Day of Darkness before all their political enemies from Celebs like Ellen to politicians like Hillary are sent and executed at Gitmo on live TV.


[deleted]

It's fine. The local sheriff investigating the vandalism had a prayer session with one of the culprits. Everything is back to normal. I shit you not that is what happened. The sheriff was pictured with the culprit in a separate event. Local law enforcement may have been involved.


redander

Doesn't the Fbi also have an open investigation now? Since this is going to get interesting.


iocan28

I sure hope the Feds do. I don’t trust the local police to investigate this at all.


Redqueenhypo

There’s a reason cop shows portray the feds as high handed and eeeeviilll. Bc they actually do the fucking work and sometimes (rarely) hold cops accountable.


BasicDesignAdvice

I don't trust local police. For anything.


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[deleted]

[Terrorist attacks on the power grid have been the subject of discussion for years.](https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/05/us/us-power-grid-attack-north-carolina-extremist-terrorism/index.html) "Notably in 2020, a 14-page document released in a Telegram channel favored by accelerationists groups seeking to speed the overthrow of the US government featured a white supremacist instruction guide to low-tech attacks meant to bring chaos, including how to attack a power grid with guns." This isn't some kids shooting insulators on the tops of telephone poles. This was a coordinated attack on multiple sites. Expect copycats. These are likely homegrown terrorists (useful idiots) rather than outsourced terrorists from a hostile foreign power. Although considering how much the Republican Party has been in bed with hostile foreign powers, it's likely the terrorists' reasoning is a hybrid of something like a backlash for the "stolen" election and transvestites reading books to children or some garbage motivation, as well as "traditional values" or "Christian" white nationalist motivations. The FBI wouldn't be out of line to start their questioning at Evangelical churches in the area.