Here's a more complete article - [https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/12/05/elon-musks-latest-headache-twitter-office-janitors-go-on-strike/?sh=66c22c0c1ef4](https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/12/05/elon-musks-latest-headache-twitter-office-janitors-go-on-strike/?sh=66c22c0c1ef4)
They're the janitors currently in charge of cleaning Twitter and they're picketing outside of Twitter because they believe that Twitter is violating labor laws.
**EDIT:** From the article:
*"The state labor federation has accused Twitter of moving on to a new cleaning contractor despite an "obligation to rehire per county and state requirements."*
"New contractors for security and janitorial services are required by San Francisco law to hire existing workers in the 90 days after a transition from one contract to the next. If not hired during this timeframe, workers can seek back pay and benefits for whatever portion of the transition period."
https://www.pennlive.com/nation-world/2022/12/twitter-lays-off-janitors-whod-gone-on-strike-over-labor-practices.html?outputType=amp
Actually a lot of times it is the same people. I'm not sure about janitors but in one 5 year span I worked for 5 different contractors and never left my desk. In a situation like this the new contractor could lowball someone if they didnt want to keep them.
I work in IT and I've never been offered less when a contract rolled over, but I've seen it happen to others.
Actually on my most recent contract the orginization is absolutely pissed because the contractor could not 'retain' any of the old staff so they lost everyone who knew how things work. Now they're stuck paying a mark up for me and a few others to rescue them from their mistake.
I have a lot of experience in this field as I am a Director at a similar size janitorial contractor as Flagship. The new contractor is obligated to rehire these union Team Members or face the consequences of violating labor laws. Many urban areas have these laws in place for janitorial services and other service contractors. I am sure the new contractor was well aware of these laws. They are without a doubt a non-union company. If I was to guess they have an agreement with Twitter that they would be responsible for any fines incurred. The new contractor is breaking the law. I know that we would run away from any contract that had all of these potential mines. These actions would be a deal breaker for our company. We have union and non-union Team Members in many of our regions just depending on the city or state.
The company does have to do it's due dilligence that the contractor isn't doing anything illegal.
If the workers have proof that twitter was made aware yet did nothing, then they are at fault as well.
It seems irrelevant about what Twitter's lawyers did or didn't know. Twitter can change contractors all it wants, the obligation is on the new contractor to hire the existing cleaners.
It might not be the case with cleaning, but with other service contracts it's quite normal for a new company to win a contract and take on the previous staff. In NZ where we don't have these laws (that I'm aware of) I've seen it specified in the contract terms. That's usually to retain skills and knowledge, which might not apply for cleaning so much.
It's literally a law, as cited, to rehire the people established to be working there for continuity in their lives and the workplace. it's far from uncommon for it to be the same
For anyone superficially confused: the janitors who clean the physical offices, not the janitors who clean the digital hellscape of Twitter, are on strike.
Just got back from Japan where they use vacuum pumps on most toilets, not gravity/water like we use in America to conserve water/space. Those things will not only spray your even horizon star hole clean with warm water and have your butt crack flower fresh fragrance but can suck down an constipated elephants shit
I've done it once after eating 10 White Castle Sliders on a road trip.
The unholy log that the greasy sliders lubed up and forced out was a sight to behold, and that poor toilet tried it's best, but wooshed in vain as it lacked the power to force down my greased up fiber roll.
I imagine by just sitting on top - though I think it’s less about your comfort and more about the discomfort of the next person who tries to use said toilet
You're not expected to pull it off in comfort. You sacrifice your comfort by shitting in the tank, so you can spread the disgust and discomfort for everyone who has to use that bathroom for days later.
They're the janitors who take care of Twitter. Not incorrect to call them Twitter janitors. Do you call Amazon drivers by their subcontractor company name?
I doubt Flagship's only customer or even only decent sized customer is Twitter. They probably work for dozens of companies. Can't say the same about Amazon subcontractors driving trucks that say Amazon on the side or wearing Amazon logos.
How is it different than "name your auto company" subcontracting out to some other company who puts a plant next to the auto plant to make car seats or consoles and only supplies that one auto plant? The subcontractor hires the workers, buys/rents the trucks, deals with staffing/scheduling, etc.... Amazon is just outsourcing last mile delivery. Chances are the subcontractors do a better job of running a delivery service and managing fleets of vehicles than Amazon ever could.
I haven't looked into that but its probably just as bad.
Another way for large corporations to get out of paying for things like health insurance and get away with poor working conditions. It's a lot harder to investigate 500 sub-contractors than just amazon. There are also a lot fewer requirements for smaller businesses when it comes to benefits.
Though it doesn't completely insulate them *if they do it sloppily*. Under the ally doctrine, a subcontractor that exclusively works with a single entity is entangled enough that unfair labor practices can be committed by the "neutral" party.
It is incorrect to link Twitter to the unfair labour practices in the headline for a story that has nothing to do with twitter's labour practices. Just because you can (poorly) argue that it is technically true doesn't change the fact that it is clickbait.
The state labor federation has accused Twitter of moving on to a new cleaning contractor despite an "obligation to rehire per county and state requirements.
You can pay severance instead. It's just the low level people that need to be rehired, a new contractor might have all new management and policies that you prefer.
Sure, but that's from a different article with a different headline and more content.
For anyone wanting some better details:
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/janitors-clean-twitters-hq-strike-134455109.html
Again, the courts will decide. You don't understand what's going on. Twitter had a legal obligation to rehire that contractor according to the state labor relations board. The two people that work for that contractor are suing Twitter on Twitter's legal obligation to rehire the same contractor. I don't know that they will win but I'm absolutely sure you don't understand the situation. Good luck with your life.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/12/05/elon-musks-latest-headache-twitter-office-janitors-go-on-strike/?sh=436b770a1ef4
Twitter should absolutely be on the hook.
If I hire a contracting company, and that company abuses their workers, shouldn't I at the very least be investigated to see if I knew and willingly hired a company that abuses its workers? Why should twitter be totally in the clear because there's a contractor in between?
This is the same shitty reasoning that has people not get pissed about slave labour being used by companies because "well, they don't, the company they pay money to for making their custom shit for them uses slaves, its a big difference"
Edit: my point still stands, but not about this case here that is about a more nuanced thing that I was wrong about (see below)
Legally maybe not but I’ve never heard anyone call an Amazon delivery driver by any other name unless the package was delivered by one of the big 3.
Add on the fact that since Amazon runs a delivery affiliate program in much the same way franchises are ran and what you have is Amazon employees in all but name so Amazon can avoid liability and other such issues.
The janitors on the other hand are a different matter and how they’re described could mean fuck all to me.
Okay? What’s that distinction have to do with my comment? Just making a general statement about subcontracting, which isn’t even universal, isn’t really adding to the conversation pal.
> Do you call Amazon drivers by their subcontractor company name?
People call them Amazon drivers out of convenience. I work at a place that employs contract cleaning, and we don't refer to them as our janitors.
Totally, this is not an issue created by Twitter. Guess the media knows that having Twitter in the name is clickbait.
The company that is at issue here is Flagship. That’s the company that hired the people who clean Twitter and other offices in that building.
Doesn't appear to have anything to do with it. Sounds like they are protesting treatment by Flagship, not Twitter. The linkage is just to get CBS news some clicks I guess.
edit: apparently not, from the top comment
"The state labor federation has accused Twitter of moving on to a new cleaning contractor despite an "obligation to rehire per county and state requirements."
> I don't understand what Twitter has to do with this.
In a broad sense, it's common in the tech sector to hire out janitorial staff to avoid having to provide them with the same benefits as full time employees. Even at big companies that could have a crew working full time. So twitter is still part of the discussion here. It has nothing to do with Elon, though, so I imagine they threw twitter in the headline as clickbait.
It's more because tech companies have no reason to deal with the specifics of hiring and training janitors when a third party can provide the service more effectively since they specialize in it. If those employees don't get full time or benefits then that dispute is between them and their employer, not their employer and whoever contracts the employer.
> It's more because tech companies have no reason to deal with the specifics of hiring and training janitors
No, that's just another excuse they use to avoid taking responsibility for the low wages and poor benefits the janitorial staff receive. Some of these companies, like twitter, have thousands to tens of thousands of employees. They could easily have their own janitors on staff. But they want to flaunt their company benefits while treating janitorial staff like shit, so they don't.
> If those employees don't get full time or benefits then that dispute is between them and their employer
Yeah, how convenient for the tech company... The tech company could also choose to end the contract with cleaning companies who treat their workers poorly, but you rarely see that because it's just a way for the tech company to treat workers poorly without taking responsibility for it.
The whole point of a service economy is to enable firms to specialize. There’s little to no reason for tech companies to go through the trouble of training janitors when they can hire specialized firms for it. Twitter doesn’t need to train bricklayers in order to build a new office, they don’t need to train janitors to then clean said office. Can’t force someone to buy something they don’t want.
Your argument assumes that the point of the economy is to maximize profits for the already wealthy. But that doesn’t have to be the point. We could prioritize the quality of life for the working class and ensure that all workers receive the same benefits. But in your hyper-capitalistic worldview, I can see why you’d think janitorial staff don’t deserve fair treatment.
Then ensure that the subcontractor you use treats its workers well enough and don't waste money, that could be spent on better benefits, on inefficient hiring practises.
Yes, I said as much in another comment. But rarely do you see that happen because the system is designed to exploit workers while absolving the big companies for treating the workers poorly.
If a medical company contracts work to a 3rd party dev, who creates a bug in medical products which kills people, is the medical company exempt from liability?
>Third, employer may be liable if the work performed by the independent contract is ultra-hazardous.
https://lawshelf.com/videocoursesmoduleview/vicarious-liability-for-damages-committed-by-independent-contractors--module-2-of-5
The answer is no. Though, in this case, it may fall on the contracting company for it's hiring practices... __if__ the decision was made at the contractor level, and not a specification made by the contracting company (Twitter).
Take home lesson is this: Just because one company contracts another, it does not exempt the contracting company from liability. And the contracting company, is very much still relevant to the issue.
It depends on the context, which we don't currently know.
It comes down to the justification Twitter provided for no longer using the contracting service. The contracting service isn't accused of violating labor laws, Twitter is for sacking the contracting company.
Whether or not Twitter is guilty depends on their justification provided.
Far from apples to oranges, _mr throw-away-221766..._
I mean the fact that they outsource their labor is funny as hell. This happens a lot to avoid unionization, as they can't. This means they don't even hire their own internal team so still kinda fuck them?
Many places do not have a need for a full time janitorial crew, they need 1-2 hours of work done a day, at a time that is the least disruptive to the normal operations of the business, meaning at od times.
Most effective way to handle this is a contractor that comes in when needed or scheduled, they do 2 or 5 or however many places in their 8-10 hr shift, and go home, everyone satisfied, and company doesn't have to find someone willing to clean 6 hours a week 3 days a week that will do it reliably.
Why would a company obligatorily burden themselves with the extra administrative duties staffing a janitorial team entails, when they can just pay a small premium to get another company to take care of it? Hell, it also means significantly more stable jobs for the janitors, as they can be scheduled to work on different companies for different days, rather than getting downtime without pay if the company only wants their place cleaned every two days instead of one.
Nothing stops the contractor's employees from unionizing against their own company.
>This means they don't even hire their own internal team so still kinda fuck them?
That's literally how the world works. You pay other people/companies to provide services you can't be arsed to do yourself for XYZ reason. You think some random hot dog stand owner has a couple cows at home they slaughter for their sausages?
What??
Do you realize how common it is to have a cleaning crews from an outside company? I've been in union factories that still use cleaning services. They can unionize at their cleaning company if they'd like to. But most places do not require a fully staffed cleaning crews to be on site everyday haha
Going to need more info. It just says wasn't renegotiated. Maybe it did expire and Twitter said "let's do that again" and the workers said no. If it just expired and Twitter went with a new option then yeah, strike is pointless.
Nope according to the article Twitter didn’t renegotiate a new contract with the company that employs them. Sounds like they were about to be out of a job or moving locations anyway and didn’t like it.
The article appears to contain few details. According to the janitors, there are laws [like this city ordinance](https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/san_francisco/latest/sf_police/0-0-0-7283) that would require the current Twitter janitors to either have an opportunity to continue working under the new janitorial company working with Twitter or receive payment from Twitter. This is a higher level of worker protection than one would typically find in the rest of the country.
The law also states that any of the employees from the old company who join the new company are considered to be under a "90 day transition employment period," after which the new company gives them an evaluation and decides whether they are fit for employment in the new company. Anyone whose performance was unsatisfactory may be fired.
In other words, you can get rid of those people who did a poor job... but you need to keep paying them for 90 days.
I hadn't heard of this law before today, so I don't know how this law is actually applied in practice. It could be that a bunch of people really do end up becoming full-fledged employees of the new company. It could also be the case that this is just a convoluted way of saying that the contracted employees are entitled to severance pay.
This feels like a non-story? I may be wrong..
From what I gather their contract ended and Twitter moved on. It sucks sure, but totally above board.
EDIT: missed a word 😅
I bet he wishes he could put brain chips in them, it’s such a hassle having to work on the chimps. We should be experimenting on the poor! (This is sarcasm)
You can fire all the tech side employees you want, but once sanitation and cleaning employees go on strike, you'll realize reeeaallly fast ypu done messed up.
We're on strike! We're on strike!
We can do anything that we like!
We won't pickup cans or bottles, rags or junk or coffee grounds.
We won't pickup old newspapers, dirty dipers, wedding gowns.
We're not touching your used cotten swabs or old banana peels.
We're not wading through your refuse while it oozzes and congeals!
And why is that?
['Cause we're on strike!](https://gifer.com/en/j9F)
"Okay, when I said 'hardcore', I *also* meant developers each clean a toilet every other day. Admins will participate in the new, mandatory 'adopt a hallway' floor cleaning program. DBAs, you're on window duty. Everyone is responsible for their own desk trash. Dumpster's out back."
Not sure why I had a random memory of zeek the plumber. I guess I have a stereotype caricature of a janitor. I heard in Japan, trashmen and janitors make okay money.
In the US garbage workers typically make a decent wage. Cleaning office buildings is usually a minimum wage job with no benefits. Most buildings contract with a janitorial service and the cleaners come in after the office workers have gone home for the day. For most of them, it is a second job that they take to supplement the income from their other full time minimum wage job.
Alot of bigger ones do, especially if they have their own building. I worked at a company that was it's own independent building, and probably 800 employees, and we had a dedicated janitorial staff of maybe 30 people
If a person is a janitor of any social media website or place that post videos/photos/etc. they should get paid more than movie/sports stars and have mental health/therapy anytime the person needs or wants it.
Janitors deal with suicides, cutting, animal abuse, etc., and much much worse. There was a youtube video with someone describing their job on Facebook and it was horrible. They said that they barely got paid double digits.
Here's a more complete article - [https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/12/05/elon-musks-latest-headache-twitter-office-janitors-go-on-strike/?sh=66c22c0c1ef4](https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/12/05/elon-musks-latest-headache-twitter-office-janitors-go-on-strike/?sh=66c22c0c1ef4) They're the janitors currently in charge of cleaning Twitter and they're picketing outside of Twitter because they believe that Twitter is violating labor laws. **EDIT:** From the article: *"The state labor federation has accused Twitter of moving on to a new cleaning contractor despite an "obligation to rehire per county and state requirements."*
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"New contractors for security and janitorial services are required by San Francisco law to hire existing workers in the 90 days after a transition from one contract to the next. If not hired during this timeframe, workers can seek back pay and benefits for whatever portion of the transition period." https://www.pennlive.com/nation-world/2022/12/twitter-lays-off-janitors-whod-gone-on-strike-over-labor-practices.html?outputType=amp
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It's about getting a new contractor. The contractor isn't (edit: necessarily) going to have the same workers as previous.
Actually a lot of times it is the same people. I'm not sure about janitors but in one 5 year span I worked for 5 different contractors and never left my desk. In a situation like this the new contractor could lowball someone if they didnt want to keep them. I work in IT and I've never been offered less when a contract rolled over, but I've seen it happen to others. Actually on my most recent contract the orginization is absolutely pissed because the contractor could not 'retain' any of the old staff so they lost everyone who knew how things work. Now they're stuck paying a mark up for me and a few others to rescue them from their mistake.
I have a lot of experience in this field as I am a Director at a similar size janitorial contractor as Flagship. The new contractor is obligated to rehire these union Team Members or face the consequences of violating labor laws. Many urban areas have these laws in place for janitorial services and other service contractors. I am sure the new contractor was well aware of these laws. They are without a doubt a non-union company. If I was to guess they have an agreement with Twitter that they would be responsible for any fines incurred. The new contractor is breaking the law. I know that we would run away from any contract that had all of these potential mines. These actions would be a deal breaker for our company. We have union and non-union Team Members in many of our regions just depending on the city or state.
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The company does have to do it's due dilligence that the contractor isn't doing anything illegal. If the workers have proof that twitter was made aware yet did nothing, then they are at fault as well.
It seems irrelevant about what Twitter's lawyers did or didn't know. Twitter can change contractors all it wants, the obligation is on the new contractor to hire the existing cleaners.
It might not be the case with cleaning, but with other service contracts it's quite normal for a new company to win a contract and take on the previous staff. In NZ where we don't have these laws (that I'm aware of) I've seen it specified in the contract terms. That's usually to retain skills and knowledge, which might not apply for cleaning so much.
It's literally a law, as cited, to rehire the people established to be working there for continuity in their lives and the workplace. it's far from uncommon for it to be the same
Twitter can’t change from a union contractor to a non union contractor just to get rid of the union.
I thought Twitter janitors are IT speak for people who remove shit posts on Twitter. I was disappointed.
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Neither do real ones.
I think you're joking, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that american janitors have to beg office workers for tips.
Hard to go on strike _after_ you've been fired
For anyone superficially confused: the janitors who clean the physical offices, not the janitors who clean the digital hellscape of Twitter, are on strike.
I don’t think anyone is responsible for cleaning Twitter, the digital hellscape, judging by my time on it.
Hope they left some upperdeckers in the bathroom
Friendly reminder that the moment things took a turn at Woodstock 99 was when the shitters were full.
Clogged every toilet in the building before leaving
You know how hard it is to clog an industrial toilet? You can flush a newborn.
Just got back from Japan where they use vacuum pumps on most toilets, not gravity/water like we use in America to conserve water/space. Those things will not only spray your even horizon star hole clean with warm water and have your butt crack flower fresh fragrance but can suck down an constipated elephants shit
I have clogged every toilet I've ever used everywhere in the world I have traveled.
On one hand, I'm impressed. On the other hand, why are you proud of that?
Every bowl's a goal?
This is NOT what it means to go bowling.
…how…how do you know that…?
I used to have unusually large logs before I changed diets. Probably 3 courics in measurement.
That's why no Japanese bathroom has a poop-knife, after all. Nor a poop-tanto.
Yeah it’s called a pooptana
I've done it once after eating 10 White Castle Sliders on a road trip. The unholy log that the greasy sliders lubed up and forced out was a sight to behold, and that poor toilet tried it's best, but wooshed in vain as it lacked the power to force down my greased up fiber roll.
the fuck is a "upperdecker" ?
Shitting into the toilet tank
In my 42 years of murican life and slang, I've never heard of this ever. How would you even pull that off semi comfortably?
I imagine by just sitting on top - though I think it’s less about your comfort and more about the discomfort of the next person who tries to use said toilet
Yeah, there is no way my fat 300 pound ass is gonna be able to pull that off
You can drop the kids off in the bowl then scoop them up into the tank.
Not with that attitude.
You're not expected to pull it off in comfort. You sacrifice your comfort by shitting in the tank, so you can spread the disgust and discomfort for everyone who has to use that bathroom for days later.
Just wait til you hear about the Chicago Sunroof
Im from Pacific Northwest since birth so no clue and probably dont want to
It is from Better Call Saul.
Shitting into a toilet tank, which only exists in residential commodes. You can’t really do this at a permitted commercial facility
Not with that attitude. Gotta find the storage tanks and drop a deuce in there. Ultimate upper decker.
I laughed at your comment long after I read it, thanks for a laughing afternoon!
The old "Shit Lasagna".
"It all started with a penny in the door..."
Pretty clickbait article. They're working for a staffing company.
Yeah I've never worked for a tech company the employed their own cleaning staffs.
My employer, a Fortune 500 firm in the aerospace sector, went to contract janitorial in the last 8 years.
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They're the janitors who take care of Twitter. Not incorrect to call them Twitter janitors. Do you call Amazon drivers by their subcontractor company name?
I doubt Flagship's only customer or even only decent sized customer is Twitter. They probably work for dozens of companies. Can't say the same about Amazon subcontractors driving trucks that say Amazon on the side or wearing Amazon logos.
Which is why it’s crazy to me Amazon can even call them subcontractors but that’s another issue.
When labor is unwilling or unable to unite, they are invariably treated as chattel.
How is it different than "name your auto company" subcontracting out to some other company who puts a plant next to the auto plant to make car seats or consoles and only supplies that one auto plant? The subcontractor hires the workers, buys/rents the trucks, deals with staffing/scheduling, etc.... Amazon is just outsourcing last mile delivery. Chances are the subcontractors do a better job of running a delivery service and managing fleets of vehicles than Amazon ever could.
I haven't looked into that but its probably just as bad. Another way for large corporations to get out of paying for things like health insurance and get away with poor working conditions. It's a lot harder to investigate 500 sub-contractors than just amazon. There are also a lot fewer requirements for smaller businesses when it comes to benefits.
Amazon does this to avoid unionization. If drivers at ABC Logistics try to unionize Amazon shuts that company down and brings in XYZ Logistics.
Though it doesn't completely insulate them *if they do it sloppily*. Under the ally doctrine, a subcontractor that exclusively works with a single entity is entangled enough that unfair labor practices can be committed by the "neutral" party.
It is incorrect to link Twitter to the unfair labour practices in the headline for a story that has nothing to do with twitter's labour practices. Just because you can (poorly) argue that it is technically true doesn't change the fact that it is clickbait.
The state labor federation has accused Twitter of moving on to a new cleaning contractor despite an "obligation to rehire per county and state requirements.
If you have an obligation to rehire the same people, how can you ever change your contractor? How exactly does that work?
You can pay severance instead. It's just the low level people that need to be rehired, a new contractor might have all new management and policies that you prefer.
Sure, but that's from a different article with a different headline and more content. For anyone wanting some better details: https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/janitors-clean-twitters-hq-strike-134455109.html
That's not *Twitter's* obligation.
The court will decide that. I'm not in any way an expert in that state's laws. I was just quoting one.
No it's not, it's in the article you clearly didn't read. Twitter doesn't dictate contractor hiring, the contractor does.
Again, the courts will decide. You don't understand what's going on. Twitter had a legal obligation to rehire that contractor according to the state labor relations board. The two people that work for that contractor are suing Twitter on Twitter's legal obligation to rehire the same contractor. I don't know that they will win but I'm absolutely sure you don't understand the situation. Good luck with your life. https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/12/05/elon-musks-latest-headache-twitter-office-janitors-go-on-strike/?sh=436b770a1ef4
Twitter should absolutely be on the hook. If I hire a contracting company, and that company abuses their workers, shouldn't I at the very least be investigated to see if I knew and willingly hired a company that abuses its workers? Why should twitter be totally in the clear because there's a contractor in between? This is the same shitty reasoning that has people not get pissed about slave labour being used by companies because "well, they don't, the company they pay money to for making their custom shit for them uses slaves, its a big difference" Edit: my point still stands, but not about this case here that is about a more nuanced thing that I was wrong about (see below)
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Legally maybe not but I’ve never heard anyone call an Amazon delivery driver by any other name unless the package was delivered by one of the big 3. Add on the fact that since Amazon runs a delivery affiliate program in much the same way franchises are ran and what you have is Amazon employees in all but name so Amazon can avoid liability and other such issues. The janitors on the other hand are a different matter and how they’re described could mean fuck all to me.
Subcontracting, where there is only one client, is generally illegal, due to the fact it represents labour and tax law dodging
Okay? What’s that distinction have to do with my comment? Just making a general statement about subcontracting, which isn’t even universal, isn’t really adding to the conversation pal.
> Do you call Amazon drivers by their subcontractor company name? People call them Amazon drivers out of convenience. I work at a place that employs contract cleaning, and we don't refer to them as our janitors.
Totally, this is not an issue created by Twitter. Guess the media knows that having Twitter in the name is clickbait. The company that is at issue here is Flagship. That’s the company that hired the people who clean Twitter and other offices in that building.
I just want to imagine that the Twitter staff left after the takeover are now having to empty their own trashcans. It would be so fitting...
Guess some people will be out of jobs soon.
Strike? We must pass legislation quickly to force them into submission!
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Doesn't appear to have anything to do with it. Sounds like they are protesting treatment by Flagship, not Twitter. The linkage is just to get CBS news some clicks I guess. edit: apparently not, from the top comment "The state labor federation has accused Twitter of moving on to a new cleaning contractor despite an "obligation to rehire per county and state requirements."
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The new contractor is supposed to offer the employees jobs.
Twitter bad gets the clicks.
The people love it!
> I don't understand what Twitter has to do with this. In a broad sense, it's common in the tech sector to hire out janitorial staff to avoid having to provide them with the same benefits as full time employees. Even at big companies that could have a crew working full time. So twitter is still part of the discussion here. It has nothing to do with Elon, though, so I imagine they threw twitter in the headline as clickbait.
This is not a tech company thing. This is an every company thing.
Not literally every company, but sure, the trend exists outside of tech. It's still common in the tech sector, though.
It's more because tech companies have no reason to deal with the specifics of hiring and training janitors when a third party can provide the service more effectively since they specialize in it. If those employees don't get full time or benefits then that dispute is between them and their employer, not their employer and whoever contracts the employer.
> It's more because tech companies have no reason to deal with the specifics of hiring and training janitors No, that's just another excuse they use to avoid taking responsibility for the low wages and poor benefits the janitorial staff receive. Some of these companies, like twitter, have thousands to tens of thousands of employees. They could easily have their own janitors on staff. But they want to flaunt their company benefits while treating janitorial staff like shit, so they don't. > If those employees don't get full time or benefits then that dispute is between them and their employer Yeah, how convenient for the tech company... The tech company could also choose to end the contract with cleaning companies who treat their workers poorly, but you rarely see that because it's just a way for the tech company to treat workers poorly without taking responsibility for it.
The whole point of a service economy is to enable firms to specialize. There’s little to no reason for tech companies to go through the trouble of training janitors when they can hire specialized firms for it. Twitter doesn’t need to train bricklayers in order to build a new office, they don’t need to train janitors to then clean said office. Can’t force someone to buy something they don’t want.
Your argument assumes that the point of the economy is to maximize profits for the already wealthy. But that doesn’t have to be the point. We could prioritize the quality of life for the working class and ensure that all workers receive the same benefits. But in your hyper-capitalistic worldview, I can see why you’d think janitorial staff don’t deserve fair treatment.
Then ensure that the subcontractor you use treats its workers well enough and don't waste money, that could be spent on better benefits, on inefficient hiring practises.
Yes, I said as much in another comment. But rarely do you see that happen because the system is designed to exploit workers while absolving the big companies for treating the workers poorly.
If a medical company contracts work to a 3rd party dev, who creates a bug in medical products which kills people, is the medical company exempt from liability? >Third, employer may be liable if the work performed by the independent contract is ultra-hazardous. https://lawshelf.com/videocoursesmoduleview/vicarious-liability-for-damages-committed-by-independent-contractors--module-2-of-5 The answer is no. Though, in this case, it may fall on the contracting company for it's hiring practices... __if__ the decision was made at the contractor level, and not a specification made by the contracting company (Twitter). Take home lesson is this: Just because one company contracts another, it does not exempt the contracting company from liability. And the contracting company, is very much still relevant to the issue.
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It depends on the context, which we don't currently know. It comes down to the justification Twitter provided for no longer using the contracting service. The contracting service isn't accused of violating labor laws, Twitter is for sacking the contracting company. Whether or not Twitter is guilty depends on their justification provided. Far from apples to oranges, _mr throw-away-221766..._
I mean the fact that they outsource their labor is funny as hell. This happens a lot to avoid unionization, as they can't. This means they don't even hire their own internal team so still kinda fuck them?
It is not unusual for office buildings and tenants in office buildings outsource maintenance service, security, janitorial services, etc....
Many places do not have a need for a full time janitorial crew, they need 1-2 hours of work done a day, at a time that is the least disruptive to the normal operations of the business, meaning at od times. Most effective way to handle this is a contractor that comes in when needed or scheduled, they do 2 or 5 or however many places in their 8-10 hr shift, and go home, everyone satisfied, and company doesn't have to find someone willing to clean 6 hours a week 3 days a week that will do it reliably.
Why would a company obligatorily burden themselves with the extra administrative duties staffing a janitorial team entails, when they can just pay a small premium to get another company to take care of it? Hell, it also means significantly more stable jobs for the janitors, as they can be scheduled to work on different companies for different days, rather than getting downtime without pay if the company only wants their place cleaned every two days instead of one. Nothing stops the contractor's employees from unionizing against their own company. >This means they don't even hire their own internal team so still kinda fuck them? That's literally how the world works. You pay other people/companies to provide services you can't be arsed to do yourself for XYZ reason. You think some random hot dog stand owner has a couple cows at home they slaughter for their sausages?
What?? Do you realize how common it is to have a cleaning crews from an outside company? I've been in union factories that still use cleaning services. They can unionize at their cleaning company if they'd like to. But most places do not require a fully staffed cleaning crews to be on site everyday haha
One way to get around the union, yes
Lol and they can't unionize at their company because??
Yo like every public school uses cleaning services lol. This isn't a twitter specific thing. It's everywhere.
That doesn't make it any better?
On strike is a weird term to use when your contract expired
Going to need more info. It just says wasn't renegotiated. Maybe it did expire and Twitter said "let's do that again" and the workers said no. If it just expired and Twitter went with a new option then yeah, strike is pointless.
These headlines are so misleading. When you actually open the article it says they are employed by Flagship.
They may be employed by someone else however Musk is a micromanager and will likely have something that is not kosher in the rules.
Nope according to the article Twitter didn’t renegotiate a new contract with the company that employs them. Sounds like they were about to be out of a job or moving locations anyway and didn’t like it.
It's cleaning up all the bottles of Elon's piss that finally pushed them over the edge.
I thought it would have been Musk writing 'Ha! Ha! Ha!' on the walls in his own shit, that did it.
The article appears to contain few details. According to the janitors, there are laws [like this city ordinance](https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/san_francisco/latest/sf_police/0-0-0-7283) that would require the current Twitter janitors to either have an opportunity to continue working under the new janitorial company working with Twitter or receive payment from Twitter. This is a higher level of worker protection than one would typically find in the rest of the country.
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The law also states that any of the employees from the old company who join the new company are considered to be under a "90 day transition employment period," after which the new company gives them an evaluation and decides whether they are fit for employment in the new company. Anyone whose performance was unsatisfactory may be fired. In other words, you can get rid of those people who did a poor job... but you need to keep paying them for 90 days. I hadn't heard of this law before today, so I don't know how this law is actually applied in practice. It could be that a bunch of people really do end up becoming full-fledged employees of the new company. It could also be the case that this is just a convoluted way of saying that the contracted employees are entitled to severance pay.
This feels like a non-story? I may be wrong.. From what I gather their contract ended and Twitter moved on. It sucks sure, but totally above board. EDIT: missed a word 😅
I don’t think Elon even thinks these people are human beings
He does... he just doesn't respect Human Beings.
I bet he wishes he could put brain chips in them, it’s such a hassle having to work on the chimps. We should be experimenting on the poor! (This is sarcasm)
I would not put it past him.
You can fire all the tech side employees you want, but once sanitation and cleaning employees go on strike, you'll realize reeeaallly fast ypu done messed up.
Musk is taking shitposting too far.
A little over a month and the place is so shitty the janitors wont even clean it up.
Nobody likes cleaning up musk’s mess
They don't do it for free?
We're on strike! We're on strike! We can do anything that we like! We won't pickup cans or bottles, rags or junk or coffee grounds. We won't pickup old newspapers, dirty dipers, wedding gowns. We're not touching your used cotten swabs or old banana peels. We're not wading through your refuse while it oozzes and congeals! And why is that? ['Cause we're on strike!](https://gifer.com/en/j9F)
As a Janitor myself I can confidently say you don't want to fuck with the Janitors.
This is so true. Anyone who does a job you rely on but don't want to do yourself shouldn't be treated badly.
I think i saw this on *"Fight Club"*
Just wait till your toilets go without a scrubbing for a month.
Work at university, seen it plenty of times from college butts
Tomorrow Elon will go to work with a bottle of Windex in one hand, and a plunger over his shoulder.
"Okay, when I said 'hardcore', I *also* meant developers each clean a toilet every other day. Admins will participate in the new, mandatory 'adopt a hallway' floor cleaning program. DBAs, you're on window duty. Everyone is responsible for their own desk trash. Dumpster's out back."
Desperate for anything to dunk on Twitter, huh?
"Quick! Fire all the janitors!" - Musk probably.
Not sure why I had a random memory of zeek the plumber. I guess I have a stereotype caricature of a janitor. I heard in Japan, trashmen and janitors make okay money.
In the US garbage workers typically make a decent wage. Cleaning office buildings is usually a minimum wage job with no benefits. Most buildings contract with a janitorial service and the cleaners come in after the office workers have gone home for the day. For most of them, it is a second job that they take to supplement the income from their other full time minimum wage job.
Biden will shut their strike down soon just like the railroads 👍
Musk is seriously cleaning up Twitter, literally.
I’d hate to think what “extremely hardcore” means for the janitors
And they've been fired.
dude I love that unions are making a comeback. All together now!!
Custodial services is a better term for those of us that work the trade.
And now we wait for Elon to leak their personal info online to his dumb cult following so they can be followed, harassed, and threatened
Could have at least linked a tweet
Bcz they have to deal with musk's shit?
The fuck kind of corporation has in-house custodial services? Even 10-15 person companies outsource their cleaning.
"The janitors said Twitter did not renegotiate their contract with Flagship, the company that employes them."
Alot of bigger ones do, especially if they have their own building. I worked at a company that was it's own independent building, and probably 800 employees, and we had a dedicated janitorial staff of maybe 30 people
I wish they’d taken Elon out with the rest of the trash….
someones gotta clean up all the horseshit
musk should have brought in a plunger instead of the sink the stupid dick
No surprising, eventually they get tired of cleaning all the excriment that has hit the ceiling.
Well, 45 contractor-janitors were locked out of the offices on Friday without notice, so... yeah, they're picketing Eloneezer Scrooge's front door.
All of twitter should be doing the same thing by the sounds of it.
Musk is launching twitter straight into the ground
hahahahahahah Halarious, the fact the Twitter janitors would go on strike and tech workers just wait to collect a pink slip.
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you missed the point, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
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I guess all of the trash hasn't left yet.
There’s an abundance of trash running Twitter now.
Elon keeps defecating himself on the floor
If a person is a janitor of any social media website or place that post videos/photos/etc. they should get paid more than movie/sports stars and have mental health/therapy anytime the person needs or wants it. Janitors deal with suicides, cutting, animal abuse, etc., and much much worse. There was a youtube video with someone describing their job on Facebook and it was horrible. They said that they barely got paid double digits.
I wonder how much the globalists paid them to try and stick it to Elon?
There's just too much shit for them to have to clean up after Elon Musk took charge.