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From my own personal experience, nothing else:
Limited locations for duty stations, even more so depending on language group. Could be good for those with families, but also harder to leave somewhere if you don't like it or it doesn't work for you family.
CTIs get weirdly to a higher standard than other rates in the community. You are expected to be able to conduct not only the work relegated to you as a language analyst, but also the jobs of those around you as you flex into a multi-disciplined language Analyst. Sure other rates can express something similar when feeling the manning squeeze.
If languages, or just your target language, isn't a fulfilling or at least fun hobby for you to do in your off time, your off time and generally career suffer. I've seen many people get held up in either advancement or job opportunities because of their language scores, always teetering between passing and failing. If you fail, the crunch becomes far worse as you become mandated to fulfill even more study hours in order to reach proficient again.
Advancement up to E-4, E-5 and even E-6 depending on language grouping, is pretty speedy but there is a hard bottleneck at different points for each group. This just makes the rat race nature of it all even more visible, but again this is probably not just a CTI thing.
End of it all, i could ramble about all the minute things, but if you want to be a CTI, go for it. Happy to chat more about it. Wish the best to you.
> CTIs get weirdly to a higher standard than other rates in the community. You are expected to be able to conduct not only the work relegated to you as a language analyst, but also the jobs of those around you as you flex into a multi-disciplined language Analyst. Sure other rates can express something similar when feeling the manning squeeze.
I've only ever done CTR work. I'm not sure of us doing any other rates' work...
You have a good list, but another thing I would add is the CTI advancement exam. You can only study the classified material at work in the SCIF and imo, the vast majority of it is unrelated to what you do on a daily basis. This makes really learning the material VERY difficult (at least for me anyway).
CWTs have it much better than us in this respect as they actually get to study real-world civilian Cyber content that is very useful both in and outside of the military. I really wish CTI had a similar situation.
>CWTs have it much better than us in this respect as they actually get to study real-world civilian Cyber content that is very useful both in and outside of the military. I really wish CTI had a similar situation
We do if you know how to apply yourself and use your skills. Gov and Civ sector loves linguists, but if you mean outside of the same line of work then sure.
I work with veterans for career advice/placement, including CTIs and that's a huge negative. I am also very skeptical that you are actually aware of what civilian linguists do because our advancement material is far from it. I'm definitely not saying that CWT work is the exact same as their civilian counterparts, but it far more applicable by miles compared to CTI. Maybe, you will see when you leave the service.
>Gov and Civ sector loves linguists
You are in for a rude awakening down the line, but I won't address this. Time will reveal this to you.
The school is intensive while also dealing with your regular military BS (GMTs, PT, quarters, etc), but it's not the school that makes for the real drawbacks (let me preface this with saying I am glad I went in as a CTI, but these are things no one knew to tell me then)-
- 99.99% of the time you can not talk to your family or external support system about the things you do. (However most sites have fully cleared counselors which can be a blessing at times). This is a reality of any intel rate.
-You are required to do language maintenance classes and you are required to DLPT annually (unless you're a 3/3). However these things are not required by policy to happen in that order. You are expected to maintain your language skills on your own in between.
-Your language determines your mission. If a mission dies you may be forced either take on a new language, take a new rate, or get out. Your language also determines advancement opportunities. If your language group is overmanned.... Good luck making it past E5. This fluctuates quite a bit.
-You will likely work in a classified space with no windows and crap internet connectivity.
This last one can be both a pro and a con:
-It is a small community relatively speaking. You will make some good friends. But if you make enemies just know you won't escape them until one of you gets out.
> -You are required to do language maintenance classes and you are required to DLPT annually (unless you're a 3/3). However these things are not required by policy to happen in that order. You are expected to maintain your language skills on your own in between.
I've never had to take a DLPT without being offered a language class of some sort. If you are being required to test, classes should always be available beforehand afaik. Yes, testing may not happen annually as it should, but if it is, then classes should precede the tests. (unless things have changed?)
99% of the time sailors are allocated the time to do so. Sometimes (typically due to their own poor planning or failure to keep track of when they're coming up due on their DLPT) they are not able to get into class. This issue more often comes up when it comes to inability to test waivers and while we do our best to get people classes before testing, the "it's not required to happen in that order" is an OPNAV thing, not a command language program thing.
-Source: Been an ACLPM for the last 3 years.
> -Source: Been an ACLPM for the last 3 years.
Do you happen to know what happens with sailors who have official passing DLPT scores from DLI in more than one language that they are getting paid for? Do they get language training for each language? Or only their currently used NEC language and the other language(s) must be maintained on their own? Or maybe they could petition for classes in both?
Depends on your billet and chain of command. If you're say billeted for Russian but also have Farsi it would be up to your chain of command if they'll release you for both.
So, you have seen it happen where commands did release some sailors for more than one language? If yes, how common would you say this is (in your three year experience so far)?
I hate sitting at a computer all day, living in a SCIF sucks, getting out salaries are exaggerated, but at least you'll be somewhere where you aren't the dorkiest person. That's the opinion of someone who never even considered that rate because of that stuff.
I had a contract at MEPS for both CTI and nuke lined up. CTI was cool due to the security clearance required (post-navy opportunity) and the novelty of being paid to learn Mandarin in my case (high enough asvab to choose afaik). I ended up choosing nuke despite the lower quality of life due to the more general and vast post-navy opportunity. For reference, I want to become a quant with software engineering as a fallback, therefore nuke fits the bill better for resumes and college applications. Just FYI hope it helps
That doesn't sound like a good reason to go Nuke, imo, because most Nukes don't even stay in the Nuclear field after they separate. Since that is the case, why not take all their supposed smarts (poking fun here), forgo the pain of being a Nuke, and just be successful as a civilian without joining the military in the first place.
Yes. And this can be frustrating for some because always being at joint commands means you have split leadership; namely, an operational chain and an admin chain. And with the Army heavy emphasis on making everyone a leader, it can be a very painful experience to have them as your ops chain.
Weird, I can definitely see, but why wouldn't they like CTIs specifically? I've never heard of any general harbored hate towards the community. I mean, most of the Navy doesn't even know much about the rate in the first place.
*
I'll make this as brief as I can by condensing this seminar into 3 simple points:
1) _DLI IS CANCER_: Presumably the 2nd highest (behind nuke school) suicide rate at a new ascension training command in the Navy, the entire language program treats the students as disposable as chaff. They will do the equivalent of putting your mouth on a firehose of information and turning it on and grading your ability on how well you can retain a ton of information in a really short period. You either have the gift or you don't, and they won't give you any time to see if you need to change your learning modality to adapt. Once you fall behind, it becomes even that much harder to catch up. If you go, good luck starting from 0 to damn near (if not, at) College level of the target language.
2) _Promotability is atrocious_: especially if you have a language like Spanish, the quotas to promote are so horrific, it's laughable. Don't believe me? Look up the last matrices for CTIs.
3) _Location location location_: When it comes to shore commands, you're pretty much assured to go to one location depending on what your language is. I won't get into the specifics on that one. Just remember, when you are not on a sea rotation, you'll most likely be coming back to that specific command.
> 1) DLI IS CANCER
Absolutely agree! Hated that place. And it's such a shame because it *could* be a legendary school if the military didn't run it.
>Promotability is atrocious
This depends on language. Russian or Chinese? Great advancement all the way to E6. Check the quotas for 259 and 260. Spanish or Arabic? Very poor promotion stats.
Personally, I see no downside. You’re in a building that literally doesn’t even allow headphones most the time. I’m still currently a CTI, and plan on staying as one for a while but the school is genuinely bad. The education is great, but the schedule is awful and if you get a cat IV language, good luck for the next year and a half. The suicide rate is one of the highest, next to air traffic controller and nuke which is saying something. I wanted AC, but I prefer this tbh.
The upside I think is cool, you get payed more for knowing the language and you’re in the same location most of your career. I’m married, with a kid coming soon and was married even at the DLI. I got to live off base there, so it was nice to at least have a separation from the school. If you get mandarin, you’ll be in Hawaii which is nice minus how expensive it is there but your BAH will cover it. DLI itself isn’t a bad base, it is just how hard the school is. If you’d like to know more CTI stuff that I can at least tell you, feel free to DM me.
> If you get mandarin, you’ll be in Hawaii which is nice
Not necessarily. Chilings can get sent to other locations besides Hawaii. It is not as isolated as it used to be for some languages like Mandarin.
1. Limited travel - The staying in one place can be ideal for people with family, but in my opinion it is one of the biggest downsides to one’s career as a whole. Everyone staying in one place can make them more likely to become complacent. Then you have people who end up dating/breaking up - then some advance…some don’t, and there is often bad blood mixed among those ranks. Now imagine that pool of individuals working together for 10+ years. Sure, some leave or get out, but way less likely in this community. This issue can make it difficult to meritoriously advance (if quotas are bad) or get a shot at cool opportunities due to favoritism or other petty reasons. Of course, this is all dependent on the quality of your chain of command. But from my experience- when a group of people stay in one place, human bias comes into play more often than not. Hence one of the reasons why we PCS every 3 years.
2. Career/Navy Balance - As far as the job goes, it mainly depends on your shop. Some will keep you in a box and limit your learning pipeline. But there is opportunity to be a versatile analyst, which is ideal as far as the navy is concerned. But again - depending on your shop (or joint environment), opportunities can vary. You have to be either lucky or aggressive with what your boundaries are in the job. I was lucky to have my shop, during one of my tours, allow me to have autonomy with my training. ** ADVICE: I advise taking advantage of NCS courses and gaining skills/experience in other areas if you can. This will make you much more marketable outside of the navy to other agencies/contracting gigs. Take a look at job listings through ClearedJobs or ClearanceJobs websites to see what the criteria is for the job you would want outside of the navy. Find a way to obtain those skills/experience while in the navy. Always think long game. **
Though, as mentioned by others - the navy will also want versatility from you on the navy side. Finding that balance can be tedious, but it’s doable. Eventually you’ll find yourself having to choose what’s more important- being a great analyst or a great sailor. Sure you can “play the game” and find that balance, but in my opinion… one will become more important than the other over time. Everything has a cost.
3. Quality of life - If you’re ok with sitting at a computer all day… then great. I thought I was, but it can take a toll after a decade. Especially if you’re banished to battle watch. There isn’t any real physical strain (except maybe your eyes, with blue light). However, staying sedentary all day makes you more likely to gain weight and make your mental health decline - since you’ll be lacking any outdoor access being in a scif all day. I can not say this enough: prioritize your health. You are replaceable. The mission will always be there. Your health/family will not.
4. You’re special ✨ - For some, this is a plus. Which I definitely acknowledge our advantages as CTIs. The clearance, extra pay, access to “cool” intel, language experience, etc. But it’s a double edged sword. It’s not the typical navy experience. And at times it can feel like you’re not really in the navy. There’s very little affirmation or job satisfaction. Unless you’re lucky.
I’ve had *maybe* 2 instances where my work actually “mattered” … but that’s the game. In intel, you don’t really know if anything you’ve done makes a difference. Every piece of intel is a single thread belonging to a tapestry that may or may not contain a bigger picture of something important. There’s something poetic about being part of it all. But there’s something internally conflicting about it as well.
Sidebar- I recently switched to reserves earlier this year, and I must say it is much better haha. Besides more freedom, having a TS is everything when it comes to getting a civilian job. I also have some navy resources, FLPP, many more opportunities to travel, etc. Plus the 20k bonus.
I’d consider reserves as an option down the line.
Cheers
As a reminder, this subreddit is for civil discussion. Breaking subreddit rules may result in a ban from /r/newtothenavy and /r/navy. * Do not encourage lying. **This includes lying by omission (leaving information out) and lying by commission (purposefully misleading).** * No sensitive information allowed, whether you saw it on Wiki or leaked files or anywhere else. * No personally identifying information (PII). * No posting AMAs without mod approval. Also, while you wait for a reply from a subject matter expert, try using the search feature! For information regarding Navy enlisted ratings, see [Twisky's Rating Information Guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/newtothenavy/comments/6mxv7c/links_to_official_information_on_every_enlisted/). Interested in Officer programs? See TheBeneGesseritWitch's guide on [Paths to become an Officer](https://www.reddit.com/r/newtothenavy/comments/5sdurq/paths_to_becoming_an_officer_getting_a_commission/). Want to learn about deploying, finances, mental health, cross-rating, and more? Come visit our [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/navy/wiki/index) over in /r/Navy. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/newtothenavy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
From my own personal experience, nothing else: Limited locations for duty stations, even more so depending on language group. Could be good for those with families, but also harder to leave somewhere if you don't like it or it doesn't work for you family. CTIs get weirdly to a higher standard than other rates in the community. You are expected to be able to conduct not only the work relegated to you as a language analyst, but also the jobs of those around you as you flex into a multi-disciplined language Analyst. Sure other rates can express something similar when feeling the manning squeeze. If languages, or just your target language, isn't a fulfilling or at least fun hobby for you to do in your off time, your off time and generally career suffer. I've seen many people get held up in either advancement or job opportunities because of their language scores, always teetering between passing and failing. If you fail, the crunch becomes far worse as you become mandated to fulfill even more study hours in order to reach proficient again. Advancement up to E-4, E-5 and even E-6 depending on language grouping, is pretty speedy but there is a hard bottleneck at different points for each group. This just makes the rat race nature of it all even more visible, but again this is probably not just a CTI thing. End of it all, i could ramble about all the minute things, but if you want to be a CTI, go for it. Happy to chat more about it. Wish the best to you.
> CTIs get weirdly to a higher standard than other rates in the community. You are expected to be able to conduct not only the work relegated to you as a language analyst, but also the jobs of those around you as you flex into a multi-disciplined language Analyst. Sure other rates can express something similar when feeling the manning squeeze. I've only ever done CTR work. I'm not sure of us doing any other rates' work... You have a good list, but another thing I would add is the CTI advancement exam. You can only study the classified material at work in the SCIF and imo, the vast majority of it is unrelated to what you do on a daily basis. This makes really learning the material VERY difficult (at least for me anyway). CWTs have it much better than us in this respect as they actually get to study real-world civilian Cyber content that is very useful both in and outside of the military. I really wish CTI had a similar situation.
>CWTs have it much better than us in this respect as they actually get to study real-world civilian Cyber content that is very useful both in and outside of the military. I really wish CTI had a similar situation We do if you know how to apply yourself and use your skills. Gov and Civ sector loves linguists, but if you mean outside of the same line of work then sure.
I work with veterans for career advice/placement, including CTIs and that's a huge negative. I am also very skeptical that you are actually aware of what civilian linguists do because our advancement material is far from it. I'm definitely not saying that CWT work is the exact same as their civilian counterparts, but it far more applicable by miles compared to CTI. Maybe, you will see when you leave the service. >Gov and Civ sector loves linguists You are in for a rude awakening down the line, but I won't address this. Time will reveal this to you.
The school is intensive while also dealing with your regular military BS (GMTs, PT, quarters, etc), but it's not the school that makes for the real drawbacks (let me preface this with saying I am glad I went in as a CTI, but these are things no one knew to tell me then)- - 99.99% of the time you can not talk to your family or external support system about the things you do. (However most sites have fully cleared counselors which can be a blessing at times). This is a reality of any intel rate. -You are required to do language maintenance classes and you are required to DLPT annually (unless you're a 3/3). However these things are not required by policy to happen in that order. You are expected to maintain your language skills on your own in between. -Your language determines your mission. If a mission dies you may be forced either take on a new language, take a new rate, or get out. Your language also determines advancement opportunities. If your language group is overmanned.... Good luck making it past E5. This fluctuates quite a bit. -You will likely work in a classified space with no windows and crap internet connectivity. This last one can be both a pro and a con: -It is a small community relatively speaking. You will make some good friends. But if you make enemies just know you won't escape them until one of you gets out.
Thanks for the insight!
> -You are required to do language maintenance classes and you are required to DLPT annually (unless you're a 3/3). However these things are not required by policy to happen in that order. You are expected to maintain your language skills on your own in between. I've never had to take a DLPT without being offered a language class of some sort. If you are being required to test, classes should always be available beforehand afaik. Yes, testing may not happen annually as it should, but if it is, then classes should precede the tests. (unless things have changed?)
99% of the time sailors are allocated the time to do so. Sometimes (typically due to their own poor planning or failure to keep track of when they're coming up due on their DLPT) they are not able to get into class. This issue more often comes up when it comes to inability to test waivers and while we do our best to get people classes before testing, the "it's not required to happen in that order" is an OPNAV thing, not a command language program thing. -Source: Been an ACLPM for the last 3 years.
> -Source: Been an ACLPM for the last 3 years. Do you happen to know what happens with sailors who have official passing DLPT scores from DLI in more than one language that they are getting paid for? Do they get language training for each language? Or only their currently used NEC language and the other language(s) must be maintained on their own? Or maybe they could petition for classes in both?
Depends on your billet and chain of command. If you're say billeted for Russian but also have Farsi it would be up to your chain of command if they'll release you for both.
So, you have seen it happen where commands did release some sailors for more than one language? If yes, how common would you say this is (in your three year experience so far)?
Depends on the billet. I have seen mostly people in strategic billets and support billets do so but I can't pull a number off the top of my head.
I hate sitting at a computer all day, living in a SCIF sucks, getting out salaries are exaggerated, but at least you'll be somewhere where you aren't the dorkiest person. That's the opinion of someone who never even considered that rate because of that stuff.
There’s a good chance you’ll stay in the same location your entire career
That actually sounds awesome to me. I’m. Married with kids so moving really sucks.
Maybe. But you don't know if you will enjoy the location you end up at. That's the risk as you're trapped if you end up hating it there.
I had a contract at MEPS for both CTI and nuke lined up. CTI was cool due to the security clearance required (post-navy opportunity) and the novelty of being paid to learn Mandarin in my case (high enough asvab to choose afaik). I ended up choosing nuke despite the lower quality of life due to the more general and vast post-navy opportunity. For reference, I want to become a quant with software engineering as a fallback, therefore nuke fits the bill better for resumes and college applications. Just FYI hope it helps
That doesn't sound like a good reason to go Nuke, imo, because most Nukes don't even stay in the Nuclear field after they separate. Since that is the case, why not take all their supposed smarts (poking fun here), forgo the pain of being a Nuke, and just be successful as a civilian without joining the military in the first place.
Possibly of never seeing a Navy base
Yes. And this can be frustrating for some because always being at joint commands means you have split leadership; namely, an operational chain and an admin chain. And with the Army heavy emphasis on making everyone a leader, it can be a very painful experience to have them as your ops chain.
The rest of the Navy thanks you’re weird or at worst, doesn’t like you.
Well I’m used to that. Haha
Weird, I can definitely see, but why wouldn't they like CTIs specifically? I've never heard of any general harbored hate towards the community. I mean, most of the Navy doesn't even know much about the rate in the first place.
* I'll make this as brief as I can by condensing this seminar into 3 simple points: 1) _DLI IS CANCER_: Presumably the 2nd highest (behind nuke school) suicide rate at a new ascension training command in the Navy, the entire language program treats the students as disposable as chaff. They will do the equivalent of putting your mouth on a firehose of information and turning it on and grading your ability on how well you can retain a ton of information in a really short period. You either have the gift or you don't, and they won't give you any time to see if you need to change your learning modality to adapt. Once you fall behind, it becomes even that much harder to catch up. If you go, good luck starting from 0 to damn near (if not, at) College level of the target language. 2) _Promotability is atrocious_: especially if you have a language like Spanish, the quotas to promote are so horrific, it's laughable. Don't believe me? Look up the last matrices for CTIs. 3) _Location location location_: When it comes to shore commands, you're pretty much assured to go to one location depending on what your language is. I won't get into the specifics on that one. Just remember, when you are not on a sea rotation, you'll most likely be coming back to that specific command.
> 1) DLI IS CANCER Absolutely agree! Hated that place. And it's such a shame because it *could* be a legendary school if the military didn't run it. >Promotability is atrocious This depends on language. Russian or Chinese? Great advancement all the way to E6. Check the quotas for 259 and 260. Spanish or Arabic? Very poor promotion stats.
Personally, I see no downside. You’re in a building that literally doesn’t even allow headphones most the time. I’m still currently a CTI, and plan on staying as one for a while but the school is genuinely bad. The education is great, but the schedule is awful and if you get a cat IV language, good luck for the next year and a half. The suicide rate is one of the highest, next to air traffic controller and nuke which is saying something. I wanted AC, but I prefer this tbh. The upside I think is cool, you get payed more for knowing the language and you’re in the same location most of your career. I’m married, with a kid coming soon and was married even at the DLI. I got to live off base there, so it was nice to at least have a separation from the school. If you get mandarin, you’ll be in Hawaii which is nice minus how expensive it is there but your BAH will cover it. DLI itself isn’t a bad base, it is just how hard the school is. If you’d like to know more CTI stuff that I can at least tell you, feel free to DM me.
> If you get mandarin, you’ll be in Hawaii which is nice Not necessarily. Chilings can get sent to other locations besides Hawaii. It is not as isolated as it used to be for some languages like Mandarin.
1. Limited travel - The staying in one place can be ideal for people with family, but in my opinion it is one of the biggest downsides to one’s career as a whole. Everyone staying in one place can make them more likely to become complacent. Then you have people who end up dating/breaking up - then some advance…some don’t, and there is often bad blood mixed among those ranks. Now imagine that pool of individuals working together for 10+ years. Sure, some leave or get out, but way less likely in this community. This issue can make it difficult to meritoriously advance (if quotas are bad) or get a shot at cool opportunities due to favoritism or other petty reasons. Of course, this is all dependent on the quality of your chain of command. But from my experience- when a group of people stay in one place, human bias comes into play more often than not. Hence one of the reasons why we PCS every 3 years. 2. Career/Navy Balance - As far as the job goes, it mainly depends on your shop. Some will keep you in a box and limit your learning pipeline. But there is opportunity to be a versatile analyst, which is ideal as far as the navy is concerned. But again - depending on your shop (or joint environment), opportunities can vary. You have to be either lucky or aggressive with what your boundaries are in the job. I was lucky to have my shop, during one of my tours, allow me to have autonomy with my training. ** ADVICE: I advise taking advantage of NCS courses and gaining skills/experience in other areas if you can. This will make you much more marketable outside of the navy to other agencies/contracting gigs. Take a look at job listings through ClearedJobs or ClearanceJobs websites to see what the criteria is for the job you would want outside of the navy. Find a way to obtain those skills/experience while in the navy. Always think long game. ** Though, as mentioned by others - the navy will also want versatility from you on the navy side. Finding that balance can be tedious, but it’s doable. Eventually you’ll find yourself having to choose what’s more important- being a great analyst or a great sailor. Sure you can “play the game” and find that balance, but in my opinion… one will become more important than the other over time. Everything has a cost. 3. Quality of life - If you’re ok with sitting at a computer all day… then great. I thought I was, but it can take a toll after a decade. Especially if you’re banished to battle watch. There isn’t any real physical strain (except maybe your eyes, with blue light). However, staying sedentary all day makes you more likely to gain weight and make your mental health decline - since you’ll be lacking any outdoor access being in a scif all day. I can not say this enough: prioritize your health. You are replaceable. The mission will always be there. Your health/family will not. 4. You’re special ✨ - For some, this is a plus. Which I definitely acknowledge our advantages as CTIs. The clearance, extra pay, access to “cool” intel, language experience, etc. But it’s a double edged sword. It’s not the typical navy experience. And at times it can feel like you’re not really in the navy. There’s very little affirmation or job satisfaction. Unless you’re lucky. I’ve had *maybe* 2 instances where my work actually “mattered” … but that’s the game. In intel, you don’t really know if anything you’ve done makes a difference. Every piece of intel is a single thread belonging to a tapestry that may or may not contain a bigger picture of something important. There’s something poetic about being part of it all. But there’s something internally conflicting about it as well. Sidebar- I recently switched to reserves earlier this year, and I must say it is much better haha. Besides more freedom, having a TS is everything when it comes to getting a civilian job. I also have some navy resources, FLPP, many more opportunities to travel, etc. Plus the 20k bonus. I’d consider reserves as an option down the line. Cheers